Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1314828#Comment_1314828
Except as I stated this video was a poor example.
If the bottles were thrown ahead of meg then Clown would have reduced that chase time by probably almost double the time, perhaps even more.
It just means you did a better bottle throw than dude in the video. the same bottle throw in PTB is same as Live. Just that PTB is statistically always 4 seconds better.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1312535#Comment_1312535
This was my first thought as well, like holy crap that was long and that was just a freaking straight line...imagine adding pallets, loops, a DS, a BT, a Dead Hard etc etc. It makes it pretty obvious why gens fly so fast.
My second thought was how garbage the bottles were. I felt like they were making much more of a difference than they actually are. The addons experiment is pretty irrelevant to me because you won't have those addons every game so it's unrealistic to include those when looking at somethings balance for the most part.
Even after 4.0 the bottles look god awful. That's barely much of a gain from using the bottles at all. Especially seeing as it's his only ability. I'm not saying 4 seconds isn't significant, I'm just saying 17 seconds for the chase still when it's only a straight line isn't going to be good enough.
Really good loopers all understand the power of holding forward. In fact, if you want optimize every loop, you want to hold forward for as long possible, get to a pallet and depending tileset, loop it as long as possible, than drop it pallet. Make sure killer breaks it than hold forward to the next loop. Don't believe that non-sense that you can "waste pallets".
This gives some insight for why maps like Indoor maps such as Hawkin and Lery have very high killrates. Part of the reason has to do with the inability to hold forward on these maps and in SoloQ, These maps are very small, so many players while holding forward often run into teammates who are working on generators. In any case, lesser experienced killers can get looped on these maps because there are circular loops on those maps.
Fun fact, A lot of top-tier killers in the game have direct counters to this strategy. Billy has his chainsaw to gap-close. Freddy can generator teleport ahead of you. Spirit has phase walk. Nurse has her range add-on/blinks. Oni has his dash but you can heavily abuse him in early game. This is why when you play Low-tier killer, It is very strange when killers somehow win on like farm maps such as Fractured Cowshed or Ormond where you have a huge map, ton of pallets and on top of that, Jungle gyms everywhere.
@DudeDelicious The extra distance gained is static 4 seconds. in some sense, you could say that clown self-slow reduced his bottle duration to 1 second and in that time, he lost some meters of distance which potentially could be difference between survivor hitting a vault/pallet and clown hitting you at a vault/window. In some sense, you could say he got free Ether 70% Volume add-on for free in his kit as bugfix. I don't think this huge game changer or anything but I think it might allow clown to make deadzones in an area more quickly because you'll have to use pallets that are closer together or juke/respect bottle throws more. that is another reason why holding forward and using pallets across the map is good way to preserve map's strength while maximizing pallet time waste. I still think clown will struggle to beat good teams regardless of this fact as his kit is very one dimensional and hard to utilize to produce results.
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agree. It raises his skill expression. Maybe it could be iri add-on.
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@Peanits said:
I don't know if I'd make that comparison; while the Deathslinger is slower, he also has next to no windup time. Pyramid Head, on the other hand, has to charge up his power first, and creates a zone that the survivors can see and react to if they've got fast reflexes. His turning speed is also limited while he's doing this, so making sharp adjustments is much more difficult.
Pyramid head can hit people through solid objects. Huntress and Deathslinger can't and they're both slower. when a pallet is drop against Pyramid head, by walking on his trails, he gains killer instinct, lesser version of walk hack through loops. Pyramid head is decent 115% ranged killer no matter how you slice it and I think that is really cool and unique. Given time, I'm sure they'll learn to play around this ability.
When it comes slower killers such as Hag, Nurse and Spirit, although they have lower movement speed, they have mobility related powers to make up for their lack of base movement speed. When it comes to Huntress, Huntress doesn't have mobility, but she can inflict multiple injuries in rapid succession in very small time window. If survivor are out of position against Huntress, she almost downs people as fast as iri head at base and her basement pressure is top notch. Huntress makes up her 110% by being extremely lethal and she is like artillery killer. you just want to stay out of line of fire.When it comes to deathslinger, he has no mobility so his 110% is straight drawback and when it comes to clutching a big play, he can't really put out the damage as he has 1 shot. The fact that you have to wipe your weapon, reload and the survivor get speed boost allows the survivor in the majority of cases to hold forward and waste a lot of the killers time. His only good selling point is that his low TR with monitor can sometimes give him a free hit, but overall his chases are always long if the survivor plays it right. This is my speculation to why a lot of deathslinger proxy camp hooks and why a lot of them use NOED because they simply are not allowed to go for too many chases. Maybe this leads to survivor having a lot less fun as they're unlikely to get off the hook safely/get many chases and the end game leads to NOED.
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I would say it is anti-slug perk. Typically, when you think of second chance perks, they're perks like ds, borrow time, dead hard, adrenaline because those perks activate in the chase and extend the chase by a lot in some cases. With that being said, slugging is very common so soulmate could be a common counter to killers like Oni, Billy or Myers. It is great that survivor get good perks... but what about killer perks. they feel kinda lackluster.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1287608#Comment_1287608
That's exactly what this aims to solve: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/124795
I think matchmaking is in good spot. Only like 2/20 games ever have genrushing. It is really small percentage, but those small percentage of games are nearly unwinnable for killer. It is really strange because often those games feel like your downing every chase in 30 seconds where the survivors are failing every loop and than maybe you get like 1 minute chase and soon after, all generator are poped. I know arguement, "you didn't down fast enough" but Its like... was it even possible to down faster than that?". That is top level DBD for you. you take your black pip and you move on to the next game as killer. It is a lot different for survivor as survivor can always pip regardless of team strength and like 50% of the time, you'll end up escaping while piping if your decent at the game. I think only thing that needs looking into is instant downs regarding that chaser emblem for killer.
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@Onyx_Blue said:
@Devil_hit11 you just backed up my argument in your point about pickrate.
I also think you misread my statement about 'Basic Play'. You seem to think I was talking about him being a Basic Attack killer. I was talking about how your argument leaned towards stating that being god with Clown means god with everyone else makes it seem you see Clown as having nothing but simply knowing killer basics to play him well.
To narrow pickrate to generally usually meaning this killer character is good is misled too. Nurse is a prime example. Hardly anyone plays as her, but once learned she is the strongest killer in the game to play as.
And no, videos of domination do nothing to prove a point. So i'll just let that little dig attempt slide.
You're just adding fuel to the fire by reitterating that you think Clown is bad..."like everyone else". You're in that bracket of my first response comment - knowing nothing of how to be a God Clown and thus assumes weakness and in need of buffs or changes. Typical of the dbd playerbase, really.
I mean, if you don't use clown's power than your playing base killer. Its like winning as trapper without planting a single trap. mastery comes in learning to use bottles just like trapper learns to place reliable traps. I think he has potential to be good killer if he had less drawbacks on the power but he just isn't quite there yet. Time will tell based off what changes he receives whether his situation becomes better.
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@Onyx_Blue said:
@Devil_hit11 you think people have mastered Clown? Almost every player plays Clown wrong. Hardly anyone even knows how to manipulate his audio cues, for starters!
The mentality that 'being Godly with Clown makes you an ultra god with every other killer' is mislead. You're making it sound like knowing Clown is basic play alone. His power has a lot to it that almost every player does not even consider. My point in my post is that of annoyance at the playerbase that constantly asks for stuff when they have zero idea as to what they want would mean for the QOL for that killer character. With the devs mentioning that Clown is on the adjustments list, that makes me wince. It further backs me up that the playerbase know nothing about Clown. They mentioned kill rate and usage rate as being low. Point proven! Almost all who play Clown suck. Then they sheep that 'it's hard to get kills with Clown' out to everyone else so then that makes people think they shouldn't waste their time playing as him either. The Devs really dropped the ball by giving into the complaints. There have been Devs post stuff about Clown on here before, and they've specifically mentioned that Clown is underrated because there are aspects to his power that are overlooked.
People can say that Freddy is a better version of him all they want. Freddy Snares are braindead, Clown Tonic takes skill. Snares shouldn't exist. If any killer needs looking at it's that aspect of Freddy. Not touching up my fat-man and possibly changing him so the lazy comparison exists. But yeah, i'm curious to see what they intend on changing about Clown.
He is basic M1 killer with non-lethal skillshot power. I imagine his poor rate is reflection of him being a weak killer and his killrate being lower than every other killer who are much harder to master facilitate the argument further. You have to remember that pickrate is like popularity contest. generally speaking, highly played character are highly picked for a reason and that reason is often because they're perceived as very good. Unless your looking to torture yourself on purpose, you'll usually pick characters that fit your playstyle, are fun to play and you find success in. Pickrate is really good indicator for what is perceived as good and clown isn't one of them. With that being said, some character are picked a lot because they are genuinely fun to play regardless of win or loss(e.g Huntress) but most of the time, It is for competitive advantage. Who knows, maybe you'll be that guy that posts your next 50 straight games of clown no add-on showcasing you winning 40/50 games and you'll go like "look guys, clown isn't bad, your bad", but nobody really going to do that because they know he is bad.
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@Onyx_Blue said:
Yet again more people showcasing that they suck at playing Clown. You people have no idea what you're wishing for. A good Clown player is a massive threat. Buffing him or giving him mobility mechanics would make everyone hate him. You all need to learn what Clown can really do at the highest skill-cap and then you'll realise you're all lucky that hardly anyone knows how to play Clown at a God level.
your largely missing the point of OP post. If your godly at clown, you will be ULTRA-ULTRA GODLY at freddy because most people consider freddy the better version of clown. If the player who is playing clown is a threat, that player would be a bigger threat on almost every other killer. Clown has been in the game since June 12 2018. It's been 2 years since his release, so I'd imagine players have already mastered him. I think clown's cooldown, limited bottle count and poor reload speed contribute to his poor perception. With that being said, you can win with weaker killers, but It takes a lot more effort. I'm very curious for what they change on clown from Q&A stream.
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@lahgsativ said:
people throw down pallets early because it is literally the only thing that works against him, if you're in the open its an easy shot & he can pull you up to windows and hit you through them. deathslinger can also aim and fire in a split second, whereas huntress takes time to wind up and put away hatchets.
if he could pull you over pallets there would be literally nothing you could do to avoid going down.
it isn't true. when he ADS, he has like this crazy alarm sound. the shots you need to do vs deathslinger are near pixel perfect, so even a little swaying from side to side can randomly make him miss. Use LOS blockers as you move forward is also good way safety measure for not getting shot. Most deathslinger shoot in two particular instances. they do it when you approach an wall for when you turn a corner. it is good guess to bait out the shot. The other instance they tend to shoot are the little holes within loops or windows/pallets that you are about to come across. Throwing down pallets isn't 100% safe, but it makes easier to predict shots he might take during the loop.
I don't think deathslinger was meant to be good at loops. I think he was meant to be good at catching people out of position and downing them before they get to a loop. The issue is that he moves 110% and the health states that survivors have are way too good safety nets for achieving that goal. I feel like his gameplay starts really make way more sense when you have Monitor&abuse and Nurse calling. He has 16 base TR out of chase and 18 meter range, so he has just enough range to shoot someone outside of his TR while being able to see someone healing under nurses calling. With no mobility tools, very long 1vs1 chases times(compare to other killers) or no real way in spread multiple injuries very quickly, It is very hard to capitalize on his strengths. Deathslinger playstyle is too slow for the game.
I think best change they could do for deathslinger is remove distance restriction of his iridescent coin add-on so we see more Deathslinger. It is real shame as it was fun to face him in first two weeks and now you barely see him. The only time you ever see Deathslinger win is when they camp hooks and your entire team gets slugged from attempting a hook save. Just survivor playing bad I guess.
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@Peanits said:
It's because Feral Frenzy is a special attack, not a basic attack. If it were a basic attack, it would have to work with other things (like Exposed, which would be pretty nuts).
Just playing devil advocate, doesn't Myer have special attack that functions like a basic attack that downs people in 1 hit on EV3 with fancy new lunge and fancy music. I think there should be a grey zone for transformation abilities applying hit-on.
@Shocktober said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1255217#Comment_1255217
I'm not sure they distinguish between the different on-hit effects. If legion could apply sloppy on-hit with frenzy why can't demo with his shred, pig with lunge, etc etc?
Plus I still think it would be pretty dumb to be applying like 60+ seconds worth of damage every feral frenzy if the survivors were too close together. There are plenty of maps that are small enough that splitting up isn't a realistic option for solo Q teams. On maps like the game people can be in the next room to you and you would have no idea.
Just a little trick, a lot of legions memorize spawn points of survivors because they generally spawn together and Legion wants to get a good start on his power every time he loads into a map. This is also really good for Oni and Billy so they can get a head start. If your grouped against Legion and he finds everyone, one of the strategies you can do is purposely camp a weak pallet and wait for him to hit you, as soon as he hits you, you can drop the pallet and protect everyone else health state. Honestly though, If the survivor team is good, even if all 4 get hit by legion power, there isn't real consequence to staying together against Legion. On most maps, If they're good at survivor, they'll loop the killer just as well as injured as they would when healthy.Its just that red ranks sometimes has a lot of potato survivors/teammates.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1244984#Comment_1244984
I would argue that the thing causing the divide in that case is the misconception that bloodpoints mean pips. They are completely separate. You get bloodpoints for doing pretty much anything and never lose them, meanwhile emblems are gained for a lot of things, but typically lost when the other side does things that earn them emblems. It's a give and take scenario. The better one side does, the worse the other does.
Reflecting on the match and thinking about what you could have done differently is a good thing, though. Whether or not tunneling would give you a win is up for debate, I find it tends to backfire more than anything if the survivors are smart. It's a lot of time to hammer through gens as the killer eats BT and DS.
I think a lot of people give huge flack to emblem system but a lot of the time, the emblem system is correct in evaluate wins and loss for killer. I think the only problem with killer emblem system is that chaser emblem punishes instant down killers and over rewards killer like legion who stab people multiple times. It is best seen when nobody cleanses against plague for how hard it is to pip as killer because of the large amount of instant downs. The other issue is that if a killer 4k's too quickly or the survivor purposely disconnects resulting too short of a game, than the killer gets robbed of emblem points. I think that if a killer 4k's, he/she should unconditional pip as he/she has succeed in killing all the survivors. I think if instant down and 4k black pip(too short game) problems are fixed, the killer emblem system is near perfect.
For survivor, it's still big mess. For one, the emblem system for survivor has too much weighting on gatekeeper emblem and altruism emblem. I think that these two categories should get merged and it should be called "Cooperation" or "Teamwork". These categories are very easy to fill and I suspect it is main reason why there are a lot of boosted survivors in red ranks because they are constantly able to black pip from these categories. Another problem with emblem system for survivor is that survival category only ranks each individual survivor escaping on personal level despite escaping being a team effort. The way it is now, survivors are almost encouraged to play for themselves when it comes to this category when in reality, The result of one survivor dying can mean the escape of the rest of the team. I think this emblem should be based off how many of your teammates escape. For example, all 4 escaping is iridescent, 3 is gold, 2 is silver, 1 is bronze. Lastly, I think chaser emblem largely represents the survivor's skill level in this game because a lot of the game is about chases. I think this emblem should be defining factor for whether a survivor pips or not. Running a killer around and winning chases should be highest reward for survivor, and yet it is only 1/4 of categories to fill. I just feel like survivor ranking system is too easy and it doesn't properly evaluate loss/wins like killer emblem system does. I think if there were only 3 emblems, "Teamwork", "Team survival" and Chaser, It would better reflect skill-level of survivors. It would make ranking up for survivor harder and it would more accurately determine loss/wins rather than constant black pip or pip.
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@Peanits said:
Respawning every pallet is way too much, especially every two minutes. One of the skills good players learn is how to preserve pallets. Respawning them every 2 minutes takes that skill away. Suddenly it's not a bad move to drop every single pallet after a single loop, by the time you're done with them, they'll all be back anyway.
Beyond that, the game shifts from the survivor's favour to the killer's favour the longer it goes on. Pallets are one of the reasons for that; the longer the match goes on, the fewer pallets there are and the more unsafe the map becomes. Continuing to add pallets takes that away and keeps the map safe all game.
If you're running out of pallets on a regular basis, you may be dropping them too frivolously.
I think what OP is saying is that god windows were reusable strong loops that a survivor could reuse regardless for how long the game lasts. With them gone, he want mechanic that refill the map strength. Objectively, the game was designed in such a way that every part of the map is strong when you first load into a map and that the killer is meant to create weak points in the map. This is why early game for killer is considered weak. Good survivor teams are able to win before the killer creates any weak points in the map. People that run out of pallets are players who constantly make tons of mistakes at loops, Heal 24/7, often with self-care or have terrible teamwork efficiency such as bringing the killer into worked generators, entire team going to a hook or not working on generators when another person is getting chased. It is everything you get from DBD Survivor soloq.
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@Peanits said:
To your point, yes, it's absolutely about managing time. The second it's not about managing your time, there's something seriously wrong. Both sides have a limited amount of time to do their obective; the killer needs to kill people before they finish the gens and escape, and the survivors need to finish the gens and escape before they're killed. The moment either side doesn't have a time constraint and has the luxury of doing their objective at their own leisurely pace, there's something seriously wrong.
If you don't want to feel like you're up against the clock, that's perfectly fine, you definitely aren't forced to. If you'd rather play the game more casually and not focus so much on winning, you'll naturally end up in the lower ranks with other people who are just looking to play for fun. If you are hanging around the red ranks and expecting a casual match, that's not very likely and probably shouldn't happen.
You have to understand that survivor's control the game tempo of the game. They control how fast the match ends. If survivors are low on time, they can "make" more time by playing loop correctly. It is what allows survivor to have legendary comebacks and be very skill expressive. in some sense, survivor can control how intense or relaxing their match turns out to be.
Killers have no such luxury. I would go as far to say that time for killer doesn't have same weighting as time for survivor. a 30 second debuff for survivor isn't the same as 30 second cooldown for killer. The killer feels it twice as hard. I would say that killers were always in a time crutch. Survivor can only feel like they're time crutch if they're not confident in their looping skills or if their team is really weak. A lot of killer really is time management and applying efficient pressure. It is really easy to play survivor when the killer is very tunnel visioned and your just sitting there watching a survivor run the killer around while your repairing a generator 15 meters away. you can tell the game is pretty chill for survivor when you have time to learn how to moonwalk and still win.
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@ClickyClicky said:
So Otz set out to prove that NOED is overpowered and more importantly - unfair. As everyone who doesn’t play one side exclusively would tell you.
He decided to play like 90%+ of the EU servers, that being proxy camp, tunnel and NOED.
He was shocked to find that he won game after game after game after game after game. No effort, no skill required, just proxy camp to bait the unhook then tunnel mercilessly with NOED as back up. The survivors all had their “broken” perks, DS, BT etc but it wasn’t enough to escape. He was using Legion too who most people try to claim isn’t a viable killer.
Now you can try to put it on the survivors saying they should “rush gens etc” but you’ve likely got people who just want to unhook their friend so they can enjoy the game, or solos who just want to pip so they NEED the unhook as the game requires you to get it.
This isn’t a shock one bit. I’ve said it many times. Killer takes no skill. Camp, tunnel, NOED and you’ll do really well in most of your games with no effort required.
Now only at the very end did one team manage to escape. He played daft on purpose I think 2/3 made it out, would have been 2 but he purposefully let one go so that would have been a tie. It took a combination of DS and luck offerings for kobes to make it happen. Know why the last team did so well? Because they were a swf, one on the hook told the rest to just rush gens. So one took the sacrifice for the team. That means the gameplay consisted one one person queuing for 7 mins in the lobby just to sit on a hook for 2 mins and be out of the game with a depip. The others just had to hold M1 and hope the gens were done before their friend died. Killer mains in their effort to try and justify winning at any cost say this is fine but we all know its just garbage. Nobody wants to play like that because it’s not fun nor exciting.
I don’t expect anyone here to agree. Forum is mostly full of the most biased killer mains who try to justify anything so long as it favours their side. Otz explains perfectly why NOED is cheap and needs a change. Anyone but the most biased players can see it.
So I guess this is for the dev team. The question is are you willing to be brave enough to shake up the game? Or will fear or change leave it in the state that its in. Killers want more time, survivors want less tunneling. The nature of the game should change based on that.
In b4 “legit strategy” “balanced perk”
The counter to noed isn't any of meta perks. DS,BT,Exhuastion perks do not help you against NOED. There is only one perk that counters NOED and that perk is Detective Hutch. You need to cleanse all or as many totems as possible before it activates and If you want to do it in a timely matter, than your going to need aura reading on totem locations. The problem with NOED is that perk functions like quest mechanic for survivor without telling the survivor that the quest is active. It is like playing a FPS shooter but when you win, you suddenly need to complete a puzzle game within shooter to win.
Just to go a bit off-topic, Decisive strike is a quest mechanic perk for killer. It essentially ban the killer from picking up a survivor within 60 seconds without notifying the killer whether the survivor has the perk. If survivors choose to always assume that the killer has NOED, then the survivor team has to play inefficiently at the objective and therefore can risk losing on primary objective as NOED consumes your teammates time for cleansing dull totems. If you never cleanse dull totems, than the perk always activates an powerful reward. The same truth applies to Decisive strike, If you obey the rule, than you delay the survivor's death in which they could potentially hurt you and disregarding the existence of the perk awards the survivor free instant heals.
This is the reason in a nutshell why survivors and killers both hate NOED and DS. They are perks that grant powerful rewards while always granting psychological reward that indirectly impedes each other's objective. They have counter play but their counter play ultimately hurts you in the long run. Otz does not need to prove whether DS or NOED are overpowered. Everyone knows they are strongest perks in the game.
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@MadLordJack said:
Clown was made for a different era of dbd. And he wasn't even that good back then, not once people realised that early pallet throws were, as with all killers but especially him, his bane. His slowdown was likely implemented so he wouldn't be too powerful (bottle-hit combo) in very specific circumstances. That's my guess, anyway.
Clown just needs a full rework. If you want to play a similar killer, and already have him unlocked, play Freddy. Freddy's snares even have a longer slowdown duration and he doesn't slow HIMSELF down while placing. It's so dumb, but playing Freddy and ignoring gen teleporting the whole game is actually stronger than Clown. #########.
I don't think he is in different era. Clown isn't a old killer as compared to other ancient killers such as Huntress and Trapper. A major issue in DBD is that a lot of older maps have a lot of pallets. Droping pallets early, Using exhaust perks and running forward in a straight line is effective strategy to waste time. I wouldn't advice always using this strategy as you can get far more out of pallets by learning effective pallet and window looping and juking, but the fact of the matter is that a lot of killers are very vulnerable to these strategies. Clown feels a killer that is suppose to punish these tactics. He has add-on to remove exhaustion, he can throw bottles to slowdown survivors who don't look behind them and he has slowdown at pallets such that he should be able to play them and yet, he doesn't do good job at any of this. The cooldown+slowdown removes any incentive to hit bottles from a far, throwing pallet hardcounters his power and he just doesn't really impair traditional looping.
Freddy is just better clown. I think if they remove feather add-on and remove cooldown altogether with clown, Clown might have some merits to be played. Current clown is just a waste of space and only worth it for his signature Pop Goes Weasel perk.
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@Peanits said:
That would be pretty nutty. I've been running Any Means Necessary for a couple weeks on my survivors and it's pretty decent sometimes. I wouldn't mind a buff to it, but to rebuild broken pallets would be a little crazy. I can't imagine it would be much fun to have to deal with shack pallet (or another very safe pallet) multiple times in a match. As is, if you let it get reset, that's on you. You should have broken it. But if they can rebuild it after you broke it, there's nothing you can do to stop it.
It could work as once per game mechanic perk but at that point, your creating a perk similar to Decisive Strike.
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@rororoxor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1208530#Comment_1208530
theres a difference being balanced and feeling clunky to play, which is my main issue with him atm. He is pretty balanced, but there's huge gaps where you cant use your power, even when not getting broken out, because you have such a long cooldown. Plus, adding bonus recovery will encourage people to stalk, and many survs hate no-stalk ghosties anyway
I think his major problem is that it feels like he gets punished for trying to stalk and a ghostface who doesn't stalk "feels" just as good as one that does. I think that is what we call... a dried skill-cap. I think long cooldown is justified but I think punishment for failing should be lessened. I would just make it that hitting a survivor with basic m1 does not reset stalk meter. In that way, survivors can break out ghostface to prevent him from getting an instant down the first time but not really completely make stalking irrelevant. perhaps change security pink add-on to that. Right now, I feel like only time I stalk is when I know i can get down or when there are multiple people on single generator, so I can knock off mutiple health states in future.
Another idea could be that if ghostface hits a marked target, his power refreshes, that could also be replacement to his useless security camera pink add-on. I do play some ghostface but whenever I play him, I don't feel like I'm playing unique killer. It just feels like I'm playing a normal 115% m1 killer with no power against good players, but that might just be me.
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@Shocktober said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1208143#Comment_1208143
Lmao, yes there are very skillful interactions between a survivor and a stridor spirit. She wears headphones, you go down. There is actually nothing you can do once you are injured. And with monitor, she is going to be teleporting straight onto generators with almost no warning, so good luck avoiding the first hit.
You want to play a trash tier killer and get easy downs? You run chase perks, it's as simple as that. Otherwise you will need to be a god at mindgames. I don't think it is unbalanced. But you get people running full greedy slowdown perks on bubba/legion and then coming here complaining they is bad.
Did you know survivors can wear headphones? Did you know monitor increases radius in which you hear wooshy sound as that sound is based off your TR for Spirit so that silent teleporting non-sense doesn't exist. You can also hear footsteps and a spirit being able to hear you does not contribute to your inability to learn juking and play mindgames.
Killer downs aren't easy against good players and Enduring+Spirit fury+Bamboozle is NOT a normal gameplay loop for killer. I don't think I've even seen much of that in red ranks as survivor. The few times I have seen it, The killer was easily defeated as using that many chase perks show lack of understanding in playing killer at high level. Reading the post gave me headache for attempting to respond to it
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@Shocktober said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1205437#Comment_1205437
And guess what? Half the killer roster hard counters those pallets. Any of the rest can bring bamboozle or spirit fury and get free hits at them. You think shack pallet is going to save you vs a stridor spirit or snare spam freddy? That's a joke.
Imagine saying that you need Bamboozle,Enduring,Spirit fury just to have equal chances to land hits at loops. That is like me saying that I would invent perks for survivor such as Engineer, Medic and Runner to allow survivors to do basic gameplay actions such as Repairing generators,Healing others and Vaulting windows. Other killers power mentioned have specific conditions such as needing to be injured or needing to be in dream world and even then, they do not change strength of those loop or impair you from stalling the killer. I think the reason why killers like Huntress or Spirit have high playrate is because they turn those zero-gameplay situations into skillful interactions between survivor and the killer.
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The reason why that map has so few pallets is because all of those pallets really strong. 4 jungle gym pallets is insane. even if you only managed to vault the window once and drop the pallet. Most of jungle gym pallets when droped force a break action from the killer and this break action allows you to get a fixed distance away from the killer. The shack itself is another free jungle gym. Even though there's only 8 pallets on the map, each of these pallets provide near guaranteed stalling value against most killers. A map like Hawkins has over 20+ pallets, but it doesn't have jungle gyms and that map is still harder to win as survivor than hawkin. It just goes to show that jungle gym pallets are like worth 5 unsafe pallets worth stalling power. The strength of jungle gym doesn't come from pallet itself, but the window. pallets are just resources you to use to avoid getting hit when you make a bad read at a loop. This means that if the killer in question does not have an instant down, you can use your own health state as a pallet resource and still use jungle gym as if the pallet was there. The next upcoming patch includes the removal of many powerful windows, so survivors have one less strong resource to avoid taking hits and stalling the killer. I wonder how long will it take them to remove last 4 remaining god loops in windows that appear on Haddonfield,Mount Ormond,Mother Dwelling and Disturbed Ward. until then, I don't think bloodlust is going anywhere and I don't even know if these map changes move needle for killer really.
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@Joelwino said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1188037#Comment_1188037
Looping efficiently as survivor does require skill, even if it's less skill required than playing killer. Clown's power removes all skill based gameplay from the situation and forces them to throw down the pallet immediately or take a hit. So I could say the same to you, be quiet about how easy survivor is and maybe play a killer that survivors can employ skill based gameplay against instead of the braindead garbage that is the Clown.
Running in a circle around an object while being able to see the killer doesn't take skill. What does take skill is the ability to read killer's movement when moving around a fair thrown pallet. The ability to connect tile-sets simultaneously, The ability to Juke the killer and create distance. If anything, Clown raises skill-cap for survivor, not decreases it as it is much harder to loop a clown than it is to loop a leatherface for example.
I would say both sides require an equal amount of skill, however survivor mistakes are more forgiving because they get more chances to make errors from multiple hook states, health states, exhaust perks etc. if the survivor team is very optimized on objective, Killer errors are not forgiving.
@immortalls96 I think clown some of the tools to be scary to killer to face, but his short coming bring him down.
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@notsonew said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1183541#Comment_1183541
because he is a M1 killer and since his ability is meant ot injure survivors you'll mostly always give a regular hit to down them so it will trigger surge and so regress the gen(s)
I have 3 builds on Legion that are based off my add-on.
Cooldown Legion = BBQ+Nemesis+Play with your food+Corrupt intervention
Iri button+Ruler = BBQ+Enduring+Spirit fury+Bamboozle
Sketch book = BBQ+Monitor+Nurses calling+Brutal strength.
Legion in general is based off the idea of being trickster. He tricks people into thinking that healing is good option against him but in reality it has real purpose. you can consider yourself playing No mither when playing against him. People who don't heal against legion and have excellent looping skills turn his power into a useless liability. For that reason, legion is pretty bad against skilled survivors and really has no chance against proper SWF. Cooldown legion hits you, loses his power, gets hit by pallet, uses play with your food to get the down. Iri button does same thing but uses Enduring+Spirit fury to do same thing. Duration legion is all about stabbing entire team, breaking a lot of pallets with brutal strength, creating dead zone, than using monitor to sneak up on survivor working on a generator or Nurse calling if they decide to heal on the dead zones created. I think legion has potential to be decent killer, but they would need to do some work on him. I think if they reduced his fatique from 4->3, Make mending a healing action and adjust Legion deep wound gimmick to down people if he stabbed entire team. I think he would be solid killer, but I doubt that they will really adjust him. It would also be nice to return the basic attack back to his power. I miss his STBL perk in Iri button build but I guess that is a thing in the past.
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@Peanits said:
I don't mean to be that guy, but at no point in your post did you explain how balancing unfair parts of maps would not help improve balance.
Most survivors aren't really that good at looping. I feel like weakening looping would just diminish survivor's satisfaction and skill expression in the game. If I had to estimate, only like 30% of games lost to looping/strong map design. The only maps that criminally have unfair loop design are farm maps and Azeroth maps. SWF always pick those maps because their map size is ideal and the maps are very powerful for looping. part of the reason for this has to do with the fact those maps have really powerful safe filler pallets that practically behave like god pallets that force pallet break when it is dropped. If we want to be more precise about this, we can just state that every safe pallet comes from when a survivor can on reaction slide a pallet without the killer being in lunge range to hit them. One of the things that I always wondered is whether a killer perk that increases lunge range by 20%-30% would allow more safe pallets to become less safe and more opportunity to be mind gamed.
Another comment that I have to make on this topic is that I don't trust *dev* to know what a strong/weak loop is because I simply don't trust devs to know where to place breakable walls. Some of the breakable walls look really stupid on new map in placement and ironically enough, there is a chance that 2nd floor saloon window can potentially lead into miniature god window loop. It is really hard to say if breakable walls will do anything for killer. Personally I think what OP is saying is that generator speed is major issue and hasn't gotten compensate in any particular noticeable way since Hex:Ruin changes.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I think he's fine, that being said, Deathslinger is indeed the only 4.4 m/s killer who is directly countered by a pallet. Excluding those super small loops where you can just wrap around and hit the person, his power is non-lethal on its own.
Here is what I am talking about:
- Nurse: Blinks through any object. 3.8 m/s
- Huntress: Throws Hatchets over pallets, across great distances and through window vaults. 4.4 m/s
- Hag: Warps to activated locations placed around the map. 4.4 m/s
- Spirit: Phase walks around pallets, and can use her husk to block a pallet while Phasing. 4.4 m/s
- Legion (pre-rework): Frenzy allows you to vault pallets and windows. 4.4 m/s
- Deathslinger: Redeemer lets you Deep Wound survivors, but cannot down a survivor on its own. 4.4 m/s.
If you ask me, Deathslinger should be 4.6 m/s simply because the power does not directly counter pallets (he also has zero map mobility, unlike Nurse, Hag, and Spirit).
This may just be a guess or speculation, but I think deathslinger is beta/alpha of this killer could down you through pallets. It just kinda makes sense because he has a gun, but on release, they purposely added a deep wound timer to his gun to make sure he can't down you with the single shoot. The result is that he is now clown-type that moves at 110% where the way you play against this guy is you don't respect him until he injures you and when injures you, every safe loop you go to, you just put pallet down early and he has break it, and when he does, you can make huge amount of distance and run to the other side of the map. It will take forever to catch up as 110% when playing this way. In essence, survivor has no incentive to play pallets because a safe and full proof option exists. If you can crush a 1vs1 designed killer that easily, than it no wonder that players say he has no map pressure, he isn't able to generate any in the first place therefore generator pop very quickly against him.
With that being said, I don't think every killer who is 110% needs to able to down people through pallets to be strong. Tossing 5% extra movement speed is a lazy solution to improving a killer. What is more interesting is figuring what would make deathslinger worthy of a 110% killer. I think if hook shot just applied injured+deep wound on-hit as opposed to chain-break, he would be worthy of 110% as he could harpoon+reel+basic attack someone into a down. He would be only killer on roaster to have a low terror +the ability to instant down someone out of position. It would very unique as most killers who have 1 shot are 115%+Normal TR or only have 0 TR. He would be only killer to have both. Only Myers would be close, but Myers can only be in evil within 2(Stealth) or in Evil within 3(1 shot), Not both at the same time. I don't think they'll do it based off looking at his add-on's, but I think the change would make him worthy of 110%. In general, I think killer prefer a strong ability, less movement speed over a weak ability with normal movement speed because it allows the killer to have better skill expression and mastery of the said skill over relying on movement speed/survivor mistakes. This may sound ironic but when I play survivor, I prefer when the killer has weak ability+normal movement speed over a strong ability+lower movement speed because it allows me to completely control the chase outcome from start to finish. I suppose this is the reason why it is hard to balance asymmetric game because both sides have conflicting requests. In the end, I think killer powers should be powerful but you should be play to outplay them to certain extent.
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@HURRI_KAIN I have escaped most of my games against deathslinger so clearly most of those competent shooters weren't competent enough but for real. you get a lot of second chances against deathslinger. loops with walls when a pallet is down is forced break, other loops he can shoot through but the price for failure is high and often it is best case reward is injure. If you understand how to struggle properly. sometimes you can bait a shot and purposely get hit because you can go next to an object and if you succeed to break chain, he gets a stun and you get sprint burst even when injured.
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@LoverOfDemogorgon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1152382#Comment_1152382
No we shouldn't, so is what you are saying that these occurrences should be allowed to happen? *By the By they aren't as rare as you make them out to be* I say something should be done than nothing, I never understood why people like you fight so hard to make sure killers stay as trash as they are, don't you want a challenge in DBD? Or are you okay with ez games vrs. underpowered opponents
They had a week extra to improve deathslinger and nothing changed. The crazy thing about deathslinger is even if he was decent killer scary killer in a chase, he would still probably struggle against top end. Deathslinger can 4k against trash players but every killer does well against bad survivors so there is that. Gen speed is an issue but even if generator were slower, it wouldn't change much for Deathslinger. I think he got 2 hook(?) in like 4 minutes and they did 4 generator in 4 minutes. It is somewhat ironic that most of the game get played in the end game rather than the game itself. If survivors had a perk to counter face camping, then you would see a lot more 4 man escapes rather than a bunch of survivors suiciding at the hook.
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@Huff said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1152825#Comment_1152825
The pressure of having somebody one hit away from being downed, having somebody waste time by mending, just simply pressuring somebody so they aren't on a gen, are all things that are rewards. The big thing that determines DbD games that I've heard over and over is time. And it's stacked against the killer. So if you're hitting one survivor, moving on to another, hitting them, you're pulling multiple survivors away from gens, and therefore slowing the game down and creating more pressure for you to kill the survivors. It's just inching you closer to your goal while doing the opposite to the survivors.
I don't really know a lot of better ways to put it. Simplest way I can say it is, any way you can get a survivor to stop working on a generator is good. Even if they end up running really far, mending, and you don't get the down *right then.*
Killers need downs, not injuries. everyone can do injuries. that strategy is for stealth killers and Deathslinger is not proper stealth killer.
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@Huff said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1150496#Comment_1150496
Nobody said you must chase the same survivor after you shoot them. Injuring a survivor and letting them run away while you chase a different survivor sometimes is more beneficial than just taking down one survivor. Then you're pressuring 2 survivors off gens.
I mean, if the survivors are wasting time doing thing OTHER than gens and the game is taking longer, then it's a reward. End of discussion. Whether it's top tier or not is a different discussion, but saying that there's literally no reward for hitting your shots is just asinine.
Every killer can M1 a survivor and than switch targets. I just don't see benefits of landing a shot in the open and pulling a survivor to apply deep wound. Every killer can hit a survivor out in the open. Deep wound appears on Borrow time and purple med kit add-on and these mechanics help the survivor, not hinder it. This is just my opinion, but I seriously think that if deathslinger hits you harpoon, you should get exposed during harpoon effect, but if you break free, the survivor should get rewarded by not getting injured for properly struggling out and counter-playing his power. I could just be blind but I just don't see any benefits and just see drawback,drawback,drawbacks.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1152171#Comment_1152171
To give an example, you're not getting a hatchet at a long wall short wall unless the survivor gets greedy, in which case you can just M1 anyway. You'll see them running around the corner, but if you start to wind up a hatchet, they'll get around the corner by the time you can throw it.
Meanwhile with the Deathslinger, you see them, you can hit them. It doesn't matter if they're near the corner or not.
There's a lot of instances where you can get hits with him that the Huntress could not purely due to the lack of a wind up.
I have been having blast playing survivor against this guy. I've been getting 3-4 generator chases against him. I am having so much fun as survivor but seriously question whether the player playing Deathslinger is having any fun. I don't really see the point in landing 8 meter shot because you'll be in lunge range most of the time. Even if you shoot harpoon slightly before they get to a pallet, you could've done same play by hitting a survivor after they drop the pallet or vaulting a window with huntress axes.
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@Huff said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1150079#Comment_1150079
So getting to inflict deep wounds and waste somebody's time isn't a reward? Or getting a down on an injured survivor? You make it sound like Legion, where he can't just 1-and-2 stab somebody and down them just like that with his power. With Deathslinger, his power actually can down a survivor that's injured.
Not if it waste your own time. you need shoot, reeling, hit, reload your gun. by that time, the survivor can literally just hold forward and they'll be like half map away and remember, your 110%. It is going to take a long time for you catch up before you can line up next shot. Of course it isn't reward. what kind of question is that. Legion's power works because he has very little opportunity cost for injuring multiple survivors; Legion power is more about information than anything else. I don't mention legion anywhere in my previous post. It is like.... imagine billy went from 115% to 110% and his chainsaw could only apply deep wound and in order to instant down someone, you need to travel 15 meters with iridescent add-on chainsaw before it instants downs and than saying, oh but billy power can down injured survivors. Its perfectly fine. /sarcasm
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@LordEmrich said:
ITT: People who can't land Roadhog/Makoa's hooks so Deathslinger is bad.
I don't think anyone is complaining not being able land hooks. If you land hooks in overwatch, it is instant kill 1 shot. in DBD, if you land hooks, all you get is deep wound+sprint burst for the survivor. Deathslinger isn't bad because people can't land hooks, deathslinger is bad because landing hooks gives you no reward. It is sad that really cool killer is just going collect dust after 1 week when players figure out that he has very slow/bad 1vs1 potencial, no map presence and no capacity to snowball or stealth compared other killers.
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@Blueberry said:
On paper he has a perfect kit, but it doesn't pan out that way. People underestimate how much info he gives the survivors, which is too much. They always know what he's doing at all times because of the constant global sound notifications given for everything he does. His movements are also extremely predictable because of the sounds queue on teleport and his constant thump thump walking sound.
When I play survivor, Whenever matchmaking gives me Demogorgon,Clown or Leatherface, It always feels like it's going to be free win. I can't wait to face Deathslinger as survivor, It's going to mad fun to bully. Just my unbiased opinion about Demo.
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If your rank 1, your obviously not bad. Demogorgon isn't viable killer. The tools he has are too weak for high level play. There was once upon time I used to play Clown in red ranks, but It's just too much effort for a bunch of depip's. I think his major problems are that his pallet break is too slow for comparative advantage to zone player who out position, A large majority of his add-on feel like they should be base kit and most of them do not improve the killer by significant amount. He has Undetectable status on his portals exit, however the sound cue for when he uses his ability destroys his ability to actually stealth on people. The loud roars across the map alert you when he is in a chase making it very easy to do generators. Just like a lot of normal M1 killers, They're sadly balanced for rank 5-10 and not rank 1.
If i had to propose changes for him to be rank 1 viable(for good survivor players), I would do following 3 changes
1) Shorten the recovery for breaking a pallet with Shred(0.5 second less(?))
2) Increase range shred lunge by 1-2 meters
3) Remove portal sound for when you enter Abyss
Unfortunately, even If all these changes did happen, He would unfortunately not be good enough to face 4 man SWF, He would be ok for rank 1 solo-queue. SWF plays the game at much higher level than soloq, therefore killers somewhat unfair/broken for killers to have any chance to beat them. If you want him to have a chance at beating 4 man SWF rank 1 level, you would need rework his Iridescent add-on. I would suggest one add-on to remove cooldown of using portals and allows him to see aura of all survivor while traveling portal and the other add-on would allow Shred to instant down. Obviously double iri add-on would be very strong, but that's just testament to red rank SWF power-level in the game. It's better to see SWF get nerfed/rebalanced than to try propose ridiculous killer add-on to reach their level.
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@Peanits said:
I do have one question, actually. If you total up the number of occurrences for each of those perks, you end up with 1,987 occurrences of meta perks. But in 103 games, the maximum amount of perks that could possibly be used is 1,648 (103 games x 4 survivors x 4 perk slots each).
How did they use more than four perks per game (each)? This is before factoring in any non-meta perks or empty perk slots.
The data is spread across 163 games, not 103. in his post, he specifically states that he ONLY records meta perks. This means that missing slots are perked NOT stated in his post, so it could be that 32 players used No Mither for archive challenges but that doesn't those 32 players believed No mither was a good perk for them. The missing perks are of those not listed. The usages are pretty much expected. DS is most used perk in the game, perhaps even used more than Old Ruin, BT is 2nd most used perk . DH is best exhaust as it corrects any bad reads and it can outplay even strongest killers such as Nurse,Billy Chainsaw,Iri hatchets, etc.
I don't think having meta perks is a bad thing as long each side has strong perks that level each other out. Decisive strike physically impairs the killer from eliminating a survivor quickly in the game, just as Old:Ruin impaired survivor from completing their generator objective efficiently. both perk were really strong, but they leveled each other. I have somewhat of theory to why the game has like 100's of useless perks on both sides and I think it is because both sides refuse to give each other any leverage. As such, the game has problem with adding new strong perks and a lot of good perks end up just being old perks since neither side is willing to reconcile new perks. It is not like new perks don't have good ideas or intentions behind them. For example, New survivor perk "For the people" sounds like a cool perk that could potentially clutch some situations with purple styptic add-on or it could be used to transfer health states quickly if you use a medic perk build with a strong med kit, but the broken status removes any potential synergy or smart use for this perk. For reference, New killer perks have similar issues, For example Furtive Chase could potentially be a cool perk for lowering a killer terror radius for some interesting plays, however the perk has downside of only affecting TR in a chase and it disappears when obsession is sacrificed. Both sides each at each others good perks, so neither side ever receives anything good in updates.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1125020#Comment_1125020
To be perfectly fair, even just based on the 1:40 timestamp the OP gave, they didn't really have a chance to use a pallet (aside from Ash who for some reason decided to camp that pallet and not drop it for some reason). As someone who plays a ton of Huntress, none of those hits would have been possible due to the wind-up time.
The question isn't whether or not these survivors are amazing, it's whether or not it's just a weaker Huntress.
Aside from huntress starting with 8 save the best for last stacks after hitting a hatchet, 5x as much ammo as deathslinger, Inability to down players during/after a safe pallet drop and generally having better add-on then Deathslinger. It is not question of whether he is worse huntress but rather if he is worst the killer in the game?
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@DrVeloxcity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1106733#Comment_1106733
Exposed should not be put into his base kit. Maybe he needs more range or the ability to pull survivors over pallets. If he can pull survivors over pallets, he'll instantly be moved up a couple tiers because that'll help him win/negate potential chases.
I feel this is the change he needs.
Imagine if huntress hatchets could only apply deep wound and never down you and you had only 1 hatchet. That's this killer right now. I think he'd still be pretty average even with that add-on base kit without massive drawback. I just think he is going to be easy to bully without much threat level. If they want to make really strong, than you would make it so that hook takes 1 health state meaning he could down injured survivors even if the pallet is dropped. I think that would be a bit much if he could hurt people through pallets though but who knows, maybe that would justify his 110% movement speed.
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@Coder said:
Hear me out. If you think Deathslinger's power is strong enough to justify 110% movement speed, you've never faced a God Tier Hillbilly. And I'm not saying a "good" hillbilly, I'm pretty sure you face those every day, I mean God Tier, those guys that can do insane curves that feel like he's hacking somehow and who can end chases in 3 seconds. You died the moment you joined the lobby. Well used, hillbilly's power is ridiculously and game breaking strong.
I don't see Deathslinger's power being that strong to justify 110% movement speed. Even Oni is stronger and he's 115%.
The only killers I think justify the 110% speed are Huntress and Spirit (not even hag), but Spirit because it's broken (see this video by OH TOFU). Deathslinger's power is not that strong or broken, I don't think 110% speed is justified.
I don't think the problem is in regard movement speed. I think issue is in rewards in hitting his gun. He's suppose to be a killer that relies on getting downs with his gun but current iteration of his power seems to be more drawback than helpful tool for downing people. Unlike Huntress who has pretty big hatchet hitbox, this guy gets 1 hatchet that he has hit with pixel perfect precision and if he hits, he just gets an injure. The killer is like high skill, low reward. He even has add-on called iri coin that increases his reward for landing harpoon into an instant down... but it has restriction of 15 meters, however the irony is that the further you hit a survivor with your gun, the more chance the survivor has to hook himself on object and break free, so like that add-on is entirely counter-productive. It gives illusion that he has ranged attack but really he doesn't. For safe loops, it doesn't even help him when the pallet is thrown down compare to huntress who can down people through pallets. I love his skill-cap and he's super fun to play, but if he gets released like this, he'll be proper f-tier killer. I feel like they should do what they did with Demogorgon's ultra-rare add-on and make it base kit. Remove 15 meter range restriction and just put exposed into his base kit, I also don't think his power should injure you or apply deep wound if you break free from his chain. I think these changes would make him high skill high reward killer. Maybe his ultra-rare gives him 2 shots instead of 1 shot for extra challenge for survivor. Take this post as personal opinion regarding new killer.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1101744#Comment_1101744
That's something I wouldn't be able to answer. I wouldn't say it's completely out of the question, although it is nice to keep them easily recognizable from a distance. It's a lot easier to use the same pallets across all the realms that it is to use the same walls. You might have a boarded up wall on a farm map, for example, but that wouldn't make much sense in a map like Hawkins Lab. Meanwhile it's at least somewhat believable that there's a bundle of boards just about anywhere.
Will there be a perk from survivor side that allows you to repair broken walls? Does new survivor have perks related to this new mechanic or are the walls broken permanently like pallets?
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@ScottJund said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1068859#Comment_1068859
You can moonwalk all you want but you have to hit them at some point. A two-minute timer as people have suggested would be a good idea as well
from base game stand-point, I don't actually think early game is that bad for killers. Killers that have inherently bad early games are INTENTIONALLY meant to be bad early game. This is because killers like Trapper, Hag, Myers are suppose to be stronger in the Trial as it progresses. Are they actually stronger as they progress? The long answer is no, but short answer is yes in some regards. I don't want to go in regards explaining how trapping or meter-type functions like EV3 create a weird opportunistic cost for loss current killer momentum for a chance to get greater return on investment later, that's an entirely different topic. The only thing that changes for killer when you have bad early game or good early game is how many generators you start with. A good early game is starting with like 4 generators and bad early game is like 2 generators on first hook. Since Soloqueue players badly optimize the objective, you can often pause the game fully against bad teams by downing players quickly. Those games are winnable as most killers but sadly those aren't the tough games as killer. The harder games to win are those where your downing people rapidly, but generator progress continues at consistent pace. I think Otz has recent video where he plays billy and that video somewhat describes hard games to win as killer. It is like your winning every chase rapidly, the survivors aren't making any crazy or particular good looping plays and yet, your losing generators very rapidly. Some will put the blame of SWF for that, but I think it's more that doing objective is over simplified, so therefore survivor's main claim for it to be boring but in reality the objective for survivor needs to be a bit more mechanically challenging. Hex:Ruin used to do that but now that mechanic is retired. I don't think your mechanic particularly addresses this skill problem issue for survivor and your mechanic might as well just be using Corrupt intervention in your perk build.
Hopefully future updates look to make killers more threatening so they can end chases faster to keep up with the pace of the game. I think the killer can be faster if they invent reliable instant down perks that allow killer build momentum quickly. For example, you can make perks like every time a survivor complete generator, entire map gets exposed effect for 30 seconds or like a perk that makes it so that if a survivor entity blocks a window, they suffer exposed status effect or if the killer breaks 2 pallets in the same chase, they suffer exposed. Just interesting mechanics that survivor would start questioning how they pop gens, whether to use god loops knowing they could get exposed or modify pallet uses. Instead of looking to make the game slower, we should try come up with idea's that makes the game faster and keep pacing for survivor as it is currently.
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@Peanits said:
It would definitely be too much to be a non-hex perk. We aren't looking to change it to a non-hex perk.
It's definitely not just a late game perk, though. It'll get stronger the longer the game goes on and the fewer generators you need to check, but it can still be handy early on.
Instead of repetitively stating that it would be too much for non-hex perk, maybe an explanation to why this is the case? To me, Hex:ruin feels more like catalyst for making Surveillance a decent information perk mid-game perk. With it's synergy, it's like 6/10 perk combination, but when totem is broken, your just left with surveillance which isn't that useful. Ruin does nothing in early game because too many generator are up and all the pallets are up so if your going lose 3 gens from an early chase, ruin isn't going change that outcome. Late game is either 2 survivors fighting for a hatch or a bully simulator at exit gates and you don't need regression perks when people aren't pushing generators or when all of them are done. Without any perk to safeguard and ensure totem perks make it to mid-game, there just isn't much reason to use a perk that disappears randomly over using any other consistent info perk..
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@Peanits said:
I don't mean to sound like I'm strongly against it or anything, but I do thing this sorta' undermines the point of a hex perk. The idea behind a hex is that you get a strong effect, but risk it being taken away.
On a more technical level, this would probably cause some issues when you have multiple hex perks, since you'd quickly run out of dull totems for your hex to respawn on.
The thing with hex perks is that they have more risk for killer to run them than survivor to disable them. This is why it is strange that a hex perk like Hex:Ruin was a meta perk because logically, why would a killer run a perk they could lose over more consistent perk choices? The answer is that the hardest teams to win as killer are teams that both optimize objective and chase time to extreme levels. Since most of the killers struggle to beat such teams under normal conditions, Killers were willing to take the gamble of Ruin as they had nothing to lose if their chances of winning better survivor teams were already very minimal outside of top-end killers. Sometimes the chance to win is better than no chance at all. Killers run perks that they believe will help them against good teams, there's no point in running perks that work against bad players because if your confident in your skills, you should be able to win against lower skilled players without any perks or add-on's.
If that perk was invented, If you have more hex perks, it means that effect would deactivate faster because people would rush to disable all totems until you run out of totems in the map. I mean if you run 4 totem perks right now, say you run Hex:devour hope, third seal, ruin and haunted grounds, than players would go totem hunting to disable your perks because it benefits them to disable the effects as it would increase their odds of winning the match. In doing so, it would indirectly slow their progress on generators because they would need spend time searching for totems. Totem perks are like decisive strike. You don't run decisive strike because it will activate every game, you run the perk because if the chance that it does activate, it can swing the game in your favor. Because killers don't want to lose the game from taking decisive strikes, a killer seeing an obsession in a game assumes everyone has the perk. Sometimes the fear of getting decisive strike is greater than the effect itself.
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As much i'd like to agree with his video, Winning in games is somewhat black and white. I would say black and white version for DBD is that if more than 2 people escape the killer, than the entire survivor team should pip/win and if the killer kills 3 or more people, then the killer pips/wins. The concept of a draw and black piping is what makes ranking system a bit flawed. the whole emblem/ranking system is way too artificial for measuring skill and it encourages farming whether it be intentional or artificial. They're probably hiding rank because some players complained about matchmaking because they were using rank as reference to skill. rank does have correlation to skill, however all rank systems have grey zones. The change is positive but it is shame that we won't be able to see our value.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1039650#Comment_1039650
Of course, and I'm glad it's changed.
Can you guys fix some of the killer bugs? I believe one of hag's skins has huge pauses on trap placement. Freddy has similar pause problems with his snares. Killers has sound problem where if you slug a survivor, there's a chance that you can't hear them on the floor and they become completely mute. There's also player-level and the rank up error that randomly appears on scoreboards and it like glitch UI really badly. Decisive strike has problem with doctor. A lot of these are somewhat game breaking bugs that disrupt gameplay so please hotfix if possible.
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@Peanits said:
You'd apply pressure the same way you would as any killer. It's not exclusive a select few.
To give an example, say you have one on the hook, you slugged a second that went for the save, and then you left and found a third survivor to chase. That's three people not on generators, and the hooked survivor will die if they don't go for the save. This isn't an extremely uncommon scenario. Even assuming you don't have somebody slugged, you can have one hooked, one in chase, and a third going for the save, leaving only one person on a generator.
Pressure does not mean only chases.
The thing with slugging is that slugging allows killer to realistically... just 1 hook entire team. You could in reality make an entire tier-list for killers strength exclusively on slugging and nothing else. If there was no such thing as emblem system, I am sure people would try to play killer in lamest possible way if the scoreboard said victory every time. killers used Hex:Ruin to play in a more fun way that involves going for many chases instead of finding strategies to cheese your opponent as hard as possible. Don't take it personal, but I have less respect for players who use this strategy simply because it's easily one of the most least fun strategies go up against as survivor. Also, when you talked about idea of rebuilding totems, It was more in line to think about how the killer perk NOED works where survivors need break all the totems to disable a powerful effect thus making survivors spend less time on generator and more time going on a totem hunt if said effect bothered them. With the new Hex:ruin, It almost feels like you don't really notice the effect even when the perk is in play. Since the other perk need to be earned before they take effect, they get disable before they make an impact in the match or the match ends before it impacts the match. I suppose people are going to have to play more lame if the opponent is competent so I guess it is whatever.
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@Almo said:
Pig is in the higher ranges for Killer performance. It's unlikely she need a buff. Having said that, there are a few odd things hanging around (like Ruleset #2) and we'd like to do an addon pass eventually.
The only thing pig needs is 115% ms when crouching, every other killer that turns their low TR off has full movement speed. T2 Myers,Wraith,ghostface. Why can't pig have that? Crouching really reduces your field of view, for spotting survivors, Why does it need movement speed reduction on top of that? stats are one thing, but making killer ability feel good to use should be considered.
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@SnakeSound222 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1009478#Comment_1009478
I wouldn’t really mind going back to tier 1 if the affliction add-ons would work there. I’m still shocked that the devs haven’t realized that they’re about to make Madness II stronger than Madness III.
I completely agree with the other changes. They seem to be there only to coddle low rank Survivors who refuse to get good. How can you not hit those massive skill checks?! If it’s your first couple of times facing Doctor, then I can understand because you aren’t used to him yet. Any other time the Survivor just needs to get good.
They forgot about killer fun in the update. personally, I never relied on afflictions because they're quite useless, however for an update, they haven't made a single affliction affects better players so I'm not entirely sure what the point of madness is at the moment. recent changes have only made killers weaker and none of them have been positive even for the weaker/fair killers. Last I remember, they were going to touch billy and Leatherface and it's hard to believe anything positive is coming out of these future killer updates besides maximizing the survivor's fun. Hopefully killer fun.. is a bit more considered... in the future of these updates.
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I play a lot of the so called "low-tier killers" because I find pity in their existence and in some ways, I look to challenge myself to win with them. Clown's problems though are mostly statistical.
-The bottles have delayed slowing effect and while this was always the case, The dedicated servers have made them significantly worse. from player behavior stand-point, it makes you unsure if your going land the bottle from further distances to close-ground faster. You almost need to throw them in front of a survivor rather than on them with current latency.
-He doesn't have enough bottles per chase unless you deliberate conserve them. It's kinda like giving huntress 3 hatchets and while it is possible to land 2/3 hatchets, you'll take less risk because of limitations and there's saying in fps games, "Every shot you don't take, you miss".
-The cooldown when he throws a bottle slows him making his power counter-productive to slowing survivors and it makes using his bottles to force medium vaults/mindgame pallet loops awkward to use in some instances.
If they did just these 3 quality of life improvements for clown, clown would feel way more responsive and interactive to play.
1- Reducing Clowns Aftertonic Gas delay(For server latency problems) for applying hinder status effect faster.
2- Adding 1 Extra bottle
3- Removing the slow after throwing aftertonic bottle(He moves at 115%). The recovery frame could be reduced but it is for a lack of a better term very annoying.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/997962#Comment_997962
It's definitely a factor. Any time you make something that affects generator speeds, you need to think "But what about Ruin?" Being able to balance around a single constant speed is much easier to do, and that way you don't have to worry about leaving the people who don't use it behind while making it excessive for those who do. It's the same philosophy we apply to the solo vs. SWF gap, where we're gradually bringing the two closer together so we can better balance around everyone without leaving people behind.
This is just an estimation from my experience, but I would say Hex:Ruin covers up about 1-2 minutes on average per game. It can be zero if the map has bad totem placements and it can also be entire match. The odd chance that it lasts entire match is when all or most of the team decides to look for ruin and fail to find it, so eventually potato survivors figure out that working through it would been faster. This is also where some people report that "I did 4-5 generators" in 1 game, it comes from that. Normally speaking, the killer should win in such situations for free, though the killer can fail and you can make a comeback. This is also why i'm sure when most people read the post, it was a bit shocking to listen to someone say "Hex:Ruin is a late game perk" because that's precisely why other hex:totem perks are not used at all. they don't make it to the end game in the first place.