Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@ZCerebrate said:
So instead of being that killer that can make mental notes like "Meg has BT, Claduette didn't" now killers just have to assume everyone has BT at all times. Not trying to be mean as I understand your pain when I play solo queue survivor but would it be a crazy idea if survivors just got better at rescuing without BT in most situations where no BBQ auras are shown and 3 survivors rush the hook without BT - I just roll my eyesr. "Camper!" they scream as the killer (or even when I'm on killer) didn't go into the corner and stare at the wall and count til 15 before coming out to play tag again
Hell even with BT - so many survivors love doing 1 for 1 trades by beeling for the hook before the killer has even walked 5m away (maybe because Hook saves give so many points + emblems atm compared to other actions) that I find the perk misused more often than not and why these people aren't bringing it.
Rather than a brand new perk - I would actually suggest to remove the terror radius aspect of Borrowed time itself and just make it straight proximity based like 32m. Freddy's and Wraiths tend to abuse this free slugging mechanic to gain free pressure and it induces frustrations when a perk is just disabled for free... yet another reason why survivors need to learn how to safely rescue
You can't get better at saving your teammates when the killer is practically facecamping with killers like Leatherface, Billy, Huntress, etc. that defend the hook during EGC. I think there should be a perk for survivor that during EGC, it grants unhooker the endurance effect. Dream perk for good survivors that always get to the end game but have to leave their teammate to die.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Blight is extremely mediocre against good players. This change makes camping and pre-throwing pallets carry the risk of being zoned. He had too much low risk braindead counterplay. Still needs his flick and POV adjusted for him to be good.
Exactly what I was thinking. what even is this change? It sounds like a change from some rank 20 killer. Only change he really needs is a flick in lethal rush. The pallet break isn't even good. It forces you to consume 2 charges and attack into a pallet which puts you into fatique. sounds utterly pointless.
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@Onyx_Blue said:
Ruin + Undying + Tinkerer
Slap this on a killer, particularly a high mobility one, and you got yourself the most boosted player you will ever see.
These players do not know what pressure is to save their life. You can feed their build and try to cleanse totems to get rid of their perks, or you can just get a gen high progressed and lead them away, go back to it when they leave you (because they will) and bam, the player is exposed as the bot they are. The fact this is a build to vs almost every game is ridiculous. The calibre of player skill level in dbd is utter garbage XD this builds proves it to be that way.
Are you really surprised that killers are using a perk build that allows them to pressure generators? All those perks expose is 2 major problems
1) Gen speed
2) lack of good killer perks
Even then, I remember playing a game of killer where the survivor team broken every totem on Mother Dwelling and completed 3 generators vs Undying+Ruin in matter of 3-4 minutes with no item/perks, so Its not like detective hutch+ maps don't hard counter the build on even a solo-level. One of the new properties of old ruin vs new ruin is that Old ruin encouraged survivors to spilit up because a failed skillcheck paused both players repair where as this new ruin encourages survivors to co-op generator because in order to win with the totem active, your team needs to do long survivor chases and if you fail, all the gen progression from split up generators gets wasted and reset from unhooking/healing, so ironically Prove thyself is indirectly really good vs New Hex:ruin
I kinda wish that Undying didn't remove all token stacks from single hex transfer and only removed one, Maybe it could be usable with Lullaby and Third seal. Devour hope probably wouldn't activate with that because the survivor would already be on death hook or the game would be nearly over by the time that activates so it is pointless at that point.
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I honestly can't wait till they weaken compound 21 because it will completely expose how bad Blight is without that add-on and how much counter-play his actual power has. If I could trade C21 or better yet, his entire add-on list for a better flick/slightly better lunge turning in his power, Blight would have so much more skill expression and the difference between a bad blight and good blight would mean so much more.
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@ClickyClicky said:
I ain’t even that fussed about DS when I play killer. You can play around it. Exhaustion perks are the worst perks to go against imo
Sprint Burst and hold W in a chase and you just got 20+ seconds of gen time for free, no skill required and no counterplay. Of course you probably already got your route planned and you’re gonna be holding W to the strongest loop on the map which is going to waste so much time against an M1 killer.
Same for Dead Hard for distance. If you have an M1 killer chasing you and you know you’re going down at the window you tap E for distance and you make the window which are often quite strong and again you just gained a lot of free gen time for your team. No counterplay. Its funny Iike to play PyramidHead because he can actually deal with this with his ranged attack but then survivors start the tears about no counterplay.....yeah you didn’t have an issue when you did that to my Pig or Myers who had no counterplay to your DH for distance.
Dead hard is what all exhaustion perks should strive to be in power. Head on, Lithe, Sprint burst, Balanced Landing are good examples of bad exhaustion perks as they contain very abnormal drawbacks and conditions for effective use. Your also acting like Killer perks are somehow more special than survivor perks. Like NOED, you lose the game, but then randomly gain free movement speed and permanent instant down. There are perks like bbq,pop that require the killer to do a quest mechanic in order to reep their rewards but the quest is often something that you'll do through normal play, so Its not like these perks do not provide free information or free generator regression in some capacity.
Weakening existing and Inventing bad killer/survivor perks isn't healthy for gameplay. All that does is further reduce player satisfaction and lowers the fun factor for both sides. It makes the game very stale.
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I think Myers just needs full rework in general. his concept is suppose to be that he has "Unlimited lethality" and he gets "Unlimited power" as the game progresses but the way they categorize this for him is by giving him Unlimited Mori potencial which does not work with emblem system and Unlimited instant down potencial, but this is very worthless because once you get unlimited instant down, once the survivor figures this out, Its like your playing vs Legion or any killer and not healing and this is extremely detrimental to the killer as generators fly faster. Also, what good is Unlimited instant down if the survivor plays extremely defensive with pallets and never allows you to capitalize on it and Mori aspect is not a good way to make a killer "strong". At best its just cheesy and if killers wanted mori, They'd just use the offering which itself has serious balance issues. Also the idea of "Earning" Instant down is bad concept itself as Leatherface and Billy have instant down on demand without requirement to earn it and can break pallets very quickly. Myers is just way too outdated killer that probably has is easiest killer to loop in the entire game.
I think a good rework to Myers would be that he starts at EV1->EV2->EV3 and every 60 seconds, he changes and transforms as his name implies as being "The Shape" as the game progresses. His base stats are normal, He has 115% movement speed in all tiers, a base lunge and 32 TR.
Tier 1 = 12 meters of Aura reading & Undetectable when stalking
Tier 2 = He gains 10% Pallet break speed, 10% Vaulting speed and 30% Stun reducation from pallets
Tier 3 = He gains instant down and extended lunge
You lose each bonus for moving up a tier.
His pink add-on stay the same with small twist
Judith Tombstone unlocks stalking at tier 3, You can mori a survivor if you stalk them fully to red -No longer reduces his movement speed(Purely used to gain the acheivement)
Tusk of Hair: Allows you to stay permanently in tier 3 but you must wait 60 seconds x2 to go from tier 1 to tier 3 at the start of the game(This amount of time can be increased if required).
Scratch mirror(Purple): Allows you to stay in tier 1 for the entire game
Vanity Mirror(Purple): Allows you to stay in tier 2 for the entire game
Lock of hair: Decreases duration of tier 1 and tier 3, Increases duration of tier 2
Hair bow: Increases duration of tier 3, reduces duration of tier 1 and tier 2
Yellow add-on: Increases duration of tier 1, reduce duration of 3 and 2.
Dead Rabbit: Reduces TR in Tier 2, Increases TR in 3
new add-on 1: Increases pallet break speed, Vault speed and stun reduction from pallets in tier 2
New add-on 2: Increases aura-reading in Evil within 1.
new add-on 3: Increases lunge speed in tier 3
There are a lot of possible add-on he could get in term of creativity. I am sure there would be optimal add-on and perk choices that maximize each tier and playstyle. If they're brave, they could try to make an add-on that allows him to get attack cooldown recovery that stacks on top of his perk (Save the best for Last) if they want preserve the idea of "becoming stronger as the game progress" or give him extra movement speed in Tier 3(From his PWYF Perk) but I think those type of add-on might be too powerful in the end if not tested or calibrated properly. In any case, I think there way better ways to make Killers strong than just "Allows you to instant kill a survivor" button which is very uninteresting.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I can approach this question as someone who plays killer at a high level and also plays in an optimal 4 man SWF.
Base gen regression is not worth the time spent kicking the gen at a certain point. You are not stopping a 75% gen by doing a normal kick if someone else is in the area. ESPECIALLY against a 4 man. I can't think of a bigger time waster than kicking gens without Pop. In fact, we'll often bait killers into repeatedly kicking a gen, running us off, and chasing us in an area of the map while someone else does the gen we actually want to get done. It's a common strat of ours in late game scenarios. "Hey, look over here!" Oops, different gen got done and the person you're chasing had Adrenaline.
Overall I don't think gen speed is an issue. The issue is map size and an overabundance of safe tiles. My team shouldn't be able to pre-throw pallets for the first 3 gens and never even feel squeezed on resources while we 4 man out. That shouldn't be a viable strat, but it is on 90% of the maps if your team is slamming gens.
Shelter Wood is great example of a map that has few strong tiles, but very few pallets where throwing pallets left and right will result in survivor running out of resources rapidly. Do you want entire map game to be consistent of less than 7 pallets on every map? Its not very good solution.
Another proposed solution is to make the tilesets themselves less safe in which we look at a map like Midwitch Elementary School where majority of the pallets are playable(Unsafe) and the pallets do not connect into each other to create powerful loops. What you produce is a map where the entire map revolves around holding forward and going around in rectangular circles because of the fear of going to a pallet and getting bloodlust at a unsafe pallet. Also, there are not many strong window vaults to show looping skill expression, so this solution is not exactly Ideal.
Upping base regression another problem that the game avoids correctly at the moment. That problem is 3 generator strategies. A classic 3 generator map is Azaroth Resting place that from birdeye view looks like big I or L. Upping base Generator regression discourages the killer to chase and encourages them to camp generators until a single survivor slips out of position, if they do, you put them on a hook and than continue to patrol 3 generators. The reason why people consider 3 generator strategies has to do with map size because a way to shrink maps is to create 3 generator strategies to artificial shrink the map and Azaroth Resting place is classic "Big vertical map". This is not healthy gameplay and should definitely not become meta or viable in any margin.
The only way they can ever achieve good gameplay on both sides is by making strong killers that have 3 out of the 6 parameters which are as follows: Instant down, generator slowdown/survivor secondary objectives, Strong aura-reading, Undetectable, Strong & Consistent Mobility and Anti-loop. There is 7th parameter which is Mori which allows you to skip hook states from 0->3 instantly or 0->2(in case of the offering) but its another one of those mechanics that shouldn't be implemented in the game as it greatly harms survivors gameplay satisfaction. The issue is that whenever devs either make strong killer powers or add-on to reflex one of the 6 strengths, the community goes all fragile which really sets the game back and makes the killer a pretty big joke.
Gen speed would be less of an issue if the killers were really strong in alternative reality but community regresses from that reality.
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@GHOSTfaceP3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1624011#Comment_1624011
90 might be a bit high but if I outplay someone and rush towards them they shouldn’t be able to turn right and avoid me or a corner I just want a flick like oni something to avoid that problem
definitely agree. I think he needs like 5-10 degree more. Blight has little incentive to use all 5 bounces in a chase because its too easy to hard-counter his power with sharp corners. That point-turn mechanic sounds like an exploit if it does exist and it sounds like something that might get patched out if it is a real thing.
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@Blueberry said:
He reminds of Hag in that sense that he curbstomps bad players, but gets countered very easily against good survivors.
I mostly agree with all your points, other than his hit box being generous. I actually think the complete opposite.
Wish they'd change his slam duration addons to something else. They actually actively hinder you significantly. You'd be better off with no addons than using those addons imo.
The "flick" and lunge post rush is very unforgiving. It needs the treatment that Oni got on his most recent buff to its degree of turn. You end up feeling cheated out of a lot of hits just because the survivor 360's and you hit an invisible wall limiting your turn radius to turn as far as they do. Given the skill requirement on this killer (which I love) I think they could stand to be a little more generous here. The counter play for good survivors is just too easy.
That all said, I do think he's very strong. It's just whether or not he gets those small flick and lunge tweaks as to whether or not he has a chance at being swf sweat squad viable, which is personally all I really care about. Winning against the average survivors that are mostly potatoes is pretty irrelevant to me, as winning against players because they were simply bad doesn't do anything for me.
I'd say as him I'm 3-4k 90% of my games, but as survivor (in solo queue mind you), we're 3-4e every game vs him as well. Rank 1 PC.
That's quite a polarizing experience I'd say.
perfectly summarizes my experience. escape every game vs blight in soloq, win most games as him. I have feeling his lunge might not get changed because the way to outplay his bad lunge is to instantly hit a wall, then run at survivor and try to adjust your turning angle in order to get a clean diangle lunge in a constricted area before they realize to turn a corner or use an object but this method is so artificial, like the Blight is expected to pinball multiple times to get an angle on survivors and yet playing this way punishes you heavily. I love playing Blight but I feel like the "Highly skilled Pinballs Plays" are not rewarding/impossible/Hard countered to utilize and the simple Pinball gameplay is the only way to play him.
So Contrary to popular opinion, I think Blight has very low skill floor and a high skill ceiling that is not getting actualized and it is being repressed by his Lunge which is removing a lot of high skill possible gameplay.
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@azame said:
Ok so perfectly played powers cant be countered but no one is gonna play perfectly is that your point you are trying to portray?
The problem is with killers like ph,ds,spirit you only have to be good to make the survivor guess what you will do.
An equally skilled ph vs a survivor the PH will win becuase of his zoning. Same goes to DS he can insta shoot or make you dodge.l and gain distance.
You know what Nurse,DS,PH and Spirit all have in common? They all have MIND GAMES with their power. They force the survivor to loop differently and they force survivor to make reads at every turn. The other common part in their powers is all of them zone by sheer fear of their power. Nurse & Deathslinger are countered by LOS blockers, otherwise Nurse can easily confirm hits in open field(which is why indoor maps like hawkin, lery, rotten fields, yamoka estate are really bad for her), Deathslinger does same thing, except he still gives you a chance to dodge his shot even when in the open and he is weaker in tilesets. Spirit and pyramid zone at loops and what makes them good at zoning is the fact their power provides limit to no feedback at loops. Obviously PH can only hit people out of position with his 115%, but Spirit in open can easily track survivors using scratch marks and sounds of pain if there are no windows or pallets to use as mindgames.
3/4 of killers have provide little feedback when their power will be used but the one killer that does(Nurse) does not change her strength as a killer. Imagine survivors complaining that they're forced to make reads when killers have been doing reads on semi-safe pallets and window vaults for years. Apparently making reads is guessing according to the survivor and that is unfair.
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@MusicNerd_TC said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1619537#Comment_1619537
Even with the all seeing and windstorm add-ons, tournament survivors should never lose against a wraith.
when killers get decent add-on but like blight's compound 21 add-on, "tHiS aDd-On iS OP", Its like... do you want killers to just 1 hook and use noed like the entire tournament? Even with good add-on's, beating good players is hard and add-on allow a killer like wraith that has 0% chance to win, some chance to win and even then its very hard. Its sad how most of base-kit killers are balanced around such casual-level play and sometimes even add-on can't fix a bad base-kit killer.
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1617500#Comment_1617500
So its fine for things on the survivor side to have no counterplay but everything on the killer sider needs plenty?
And you say mindgame/capitalize, yet thats the point all these second chance perks stop you from doing that. Mindgamed the survivor and closed distance allowing the hit? Dead hard to get the distance back. Caught them out of position with a stealth killer? Sprint burst to safety. Then you got all the others on top of that, DS, unbreakable, deliverance, adrenaline etc
well think about what the purpose of stealth is. Its purpose is to hit people out of position from people not noticing you/lack of tr and sprint burst is a perk that erases that mistake so its completely anti-stealth with a cooldown of course. Looping is natural counter to all killers and Dead hard makes loops that are strong, even stronger, while it does not change weaker unsafe loops, for that you must use Lithe and make an accurate pallet slide where the killer misreads. I am not going argue if these second chance perks are fair or not but I think these perks promote more healthy gameplay styles from killer and discourage the classic forced out of position at hook gameplay for killer.
If your referring to counter-play within killer perks, no I do not think killer perks or perks in general need counter-play, they're suppose to self-imposed advanges/disadvantages(for the other side) that both sides are forced to play around in a given match. I mean If i was inventing a perk like Beast of prey where entire objective of this perk is to hide the killers red light, I would just make it hide your red light when your in a chase, but maybe at the time of creation of this perk, they thought this was godlike and they put a drawback that you need to be in bloodlust 1 and it turns out that the perk is terrible with such a drawback as are many killer perks that make little sense to begin with. I don't know anything about Pyramid head or why they think he needs changing but you can always use your intuition to take logical guesses. I definitely lose a lot to Pyramid head but that is expected as he is very strong killer if he plays his cards right. Maybe they think his cards are a bit too good. who knows?
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1617369#Comment_1617369
A second chance perk that has zero counterplay and can activate at the start of the trial delaying the critical first hook for a killer is a little overpowered no? not to mention Dead hard undoes M1 killer mindgames since you get the distance back, and makes any killer that requires aiming less fun to use e.g. Huntress, deathslinger, nurse since their precise aim is nullified at the touch of a button.
why do you think its called second chance perk? It wouldn't be second chance perk if it did not save your life. They aren't meant to have counter-play. Its not about how many second chance perks survivors have. its about how often you get a chance to mindgame/capitalize on survivor. This is partly to why dead hard is best exhaustion perk because you get to play the game normally, if you make a good read, you keep your dead hard, but if you make wrong read, your still safe. Those other exhaustion perks also erase mistakes, but different types, for example sprint burst removes your ability to be unsafe in deadzone, Lithe allows you to play unsafe pallets with opportunity to outplay bloodlust if you make a correct read, you can get to another ultra-safe pallet and put it down to remove it. Head on allows you to use lockers as jukes without risk that you get pulled out of a locker, balance landing is only exhaustion perk that works in middle of a chase, its purely a chase extension perk but its situational. You can clearly see why good players use dead hard over other versions. Dead hard is like skill based Old MoM.
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1616988#Comment_1616988
lol and what about when a killer mindgames a survivor, closes distance, survivor press E to get the distance back and gets the pallet anyway? hello?
Exhaust perks are meant to be second chances in a chase. The reason why people use Dead hard is because its most universal exhaust perk with no real requirements beyond being injured. If anything, Balance landing, Lithe, Sprint burst and Head on need some serious buffs because they really suck for second chance chase perks. Head on has 3 second timer to use it and it practically makes Quick&Quiet mandatory, Sprint burst wastes so much time on walking, Lithe has no on/off button and it disables your ability to window loop+you need good angle to make use of the speed and Balance landing always needed levitation and it was never good exhaust perk beyond its stagger passive that created artificial infinities on some maps before the perks total destruction.
If I had to take a guess for why they're thinking of changing pyramid head, its probably because his killrate is highly inflated because his cages completely remove any fear of DS and Borrow time and those perks by sheer existence prologue survivors time in a match and he has no fear of those perks so he can eliminate survivors very quickly out of the match. Speaks volumes for how good those survivor perks are I guess. Maybe they'll make cages work with survivor perks but than what would torment affliction do?
Billy had weakness, if he miss chainsaw or hit a wall, he would suffer a cooldown and he had pretty long charge time on his chainsaw. Its just that there he had thompson mix and carburetor tuning guide to make the cooldown almost zero and charge was significantly reduced. Now a days billy feels like a chore to play, his only reliable charge time reducation add-on turns him into 110% joke killer and he no longer has cooldown reducation add-on. His Iri add-on are pure jokes, like who uses iri brick that for some reason has drawback of requiring 2 seconds of chainsaw to activate and apex muffler is silly. Lopros chain could easily be valuable iri add-on if it did not have drawback of giving you speed limiter after breaking a pallet. Barely see billy get played now a days. If only billy had add-on that did not cripple him to the bone. I miss facing confident billy as survivor.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1616725#Comment_1616725
There's no mindgame, though. From the moment Pyramid Head puts his sword in the ground, if you don't take a hit it's because the Pyramid Head messed up. There are two options for the survivor:
1) Dodge preemptively. If you do this you will quickly lose distance and Pyramid Head will just walk up and M1 you.
2) Don't dodge preemptively. If you do this, you're a sitting duck for his ranged attack.
In both cases, the only way you don't take a hit is if the Pyramid Head straight up misses. He either tries to use his ranged attack on a survivor that's dodging instead of M1-ing or he whiffs a ranged attack on a survivor that isn't dodging. Both of these outcomes are in the hands of the killer.
Good Pyramid Heads will never miss a survivor that doesn't dodge, so 2 isn't really a viable play. Good Pyramid Heads will also use POTD such that if the survivor guesses right and dodge at the perfect fraction of a second it'll still carry them away from safety so they'll be able to follow up the miss with a fairly quick hit. So, 1 isn't a viable play either.
That brings us to the only actual viable strategy against Pyramid Head: hoping he's not that good. If he uses POTD at stupid times and isn't accurate with it, your chases will last longer. That's on him, though, which is why I don't like it. When you're matched with a killer at your skill level, both of you should have freedom to make a play to impact the length of the chase. With PH, it's almost entirely on him. If he knows what he's doing, it doesn't matter how well I play. I'm taking a few quick hits and going down.
"Good Pyramid heads never miss a survivor that doesn't dodge* I mean, you are correct, I mean by definition not dodging is getting hit. Its like saying Undefeated killers never lose... well yes you are undefeated if you never lose. Your upset that Pyramid head power does not have clear defined 100% certain full proof strategy to avoid getting hit by him or his power. Is this suppose to be the case? I am not sure how the killer is suppose to win in 4vs1 if your able to 1vs1 the killer for nearly entire match which is what happens to vast majority of low-tier killers. I could make same argument that Killer player is mostly at mercy of the survivors skill and his input on the match is very minimal the better the survivor team is. This does not strengthen or weaken an argument, it only illustrates a problem. Yes pyramid head can contest any loop and as such, he has more impact on the match the better the player is at pyramid head at outplaying his opponent. Its almost as if... his skill matters... who would guessed that? his power has mindgames and it is possible loop him but he is hard killer to loop which is why he is good.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1616414#Comment_1616414
I'm fine to agree to disagree aside from the "easy to avoid" bit, since it's actually not possible to react to POTD in time to dodge it. I've done the math elsewhere and would be happy to paste it here if you'd like.
If it were possible to dodge POTD by reacting to it I wouldn't have much of a problem with him. Since you can't, though, that's why the survivor is pretty powerless against him; you have to guess when he's going to attack and dodge preemptively in order to avoid it, but if you do that he can just walk up and M1 you. If he attacks at a bad time and misses, that's on him.
If you could react to his attack, it wouldn't be mindgame, it would be called... a reaction. Its like same complaint people have against spirit, "I can't react to spirit walk", well yeah its mindgame not a reaction.
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@OniWantsUrLocation said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1615909#Comment_1615909
Yes, I definitely cannot agree with you. You basically say: "Faking his attack to get a guaranteed hit is fine, but guessing where the survivor might be behind a wall is just as good". Especially when we think of his 3 second cooldown for every missed attempt AND the fact that his POTD is not an instant hit and can be easily dodged, this makes no sense imo. I'm sorry, but I'm pretty sure you don't play PH at all. At least not in red ranks.
They announced they're gutting pyramid head. that is all you need to know. All that pyramid head ever was that whenever you loop a pallet, if the window or the pallet is straight line, he can put his sword into the ground after 1 second and if you approach said pallet or window, he will either watch you vault window and use POFD or he will cancel his power into M1 and people use this situation as "Pyramid head has no counter-play" because they're looping him in wrong direction. When pyramid puts his sword into the ground, his turning is not full control and in order to flick his attack, he has to stop in place and than turn. so like for example on Shack loop, if you loop clock-wise, you will eventually top situation where pyramid will stick his sword into the ground and wait for you to vault/put down pallet, but if you loop him counter-clockwise where it is a bit harder to get fast vault on shack window, than pyramid head does not have straight line situation at the pallet and he has to make a read through obstacles and he can not really go next to the pallet or else he risks getting stunned. Ironically his gameplay is present on Huntress where people often wind-up a hatchet as turn a corner and if you take window, she hits you, if you move in constricted area of the pallet, you get hit and if you do nothing, she will walk up to shack pallet with hatchet up and than cancel her hatchet and M1 you. Demo is also the same, except unlike pyramid head, he can't hit you through pallets, and he is forced to lunge through pallet and suffer one of the longest pallet break animations for a killer power and Deathslinger is also the same, but if your in 9-10-meter range of deathslinger and he can fake his gun, than your already playing it wrong against him.
Given how unreliable hitting his power already is, if he had 3 second cooldown for canceling his power which would remove his mindgame, I am not even sure if his power would be strong enough even if his power was an instant down. A big reason to why need to fake his power out is that pyramid head is very predictable if he spams his power at every chance he gets and this canceling mindgame grants him a lot of deception and unpredictability. Its what make him very scary in a chase. Its funny how he loses to map pressure despite having very fast chases but that is killer life.
No clue why people freak out about Pyramid head but that is DBD in a nutshell.
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@Blueberry said:
I just think his rush should be a little more forgiving.
He needs a much wider rush hit swing arc. Basically exactly what they did with Oni in his most recent buff where they gave him a 180 "flick". I also think he should have a longer post rush lunge hit. Think Nurse post blink hit basically where it lunges far and semi follows the target, that kinda feeling. It's there to make her blink a little more forgiving.
I think he's actually pretty decent, but if he doesn't get these changes for the flick and lunge he's gonna get dumped on by good survivors. The counter play is too easy. You can literally 360 his lunge hit because it doesn't have a wide enough flick and they can turn further than your hit can. You try and follow their turn and end up hitting the invisible turn wall limit that prevents you from continuing to turn with them. It ends up making you feel cheated out of a lot of hits you feel like you should've landed.
He is honestly so close to be a really solid A tier killer if he just got these small tweaks.
They heard survivor's complaints of "Killer has no counter-play" and decided, to reverse the problem and give killer player zero counter-play to killer to what survivor is doing. He is like only killer power that when your out of position, you physically can't confirm the hit due to lunge 45 degree turning restriction. Its not even same as Oni, Oni can stop using his demon dash and just walk with his demon strike and hit you, but blight can not really stop his power mid-way, he is forced to take fatique as survivor loops around any object, it can literally be a rock, a box, a circular ring like yamoka without any pallets around. He is still fun to play and if survivor does make small mistake, you can do quick turn and get cheek hits but its still depressing to miss randomly.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1613139#Comment_1613139
All-Seeing is also purple rarity.
yeah, he has add-on of purple rarity that gives aura-reading and because its not very good. its not being complained about and it doesn't matter what rarity an item is, I mean I have tons of ebony mori and Ivory mori and those are pink and green, I just don't use them because... well their gamebreaking unlike this add-on that is not gamebreaking. it prevents you from playing hide and seek vs blight. If its really that bad, they could invent a survivor perk or improve a useless perk like solo survivor to not require survivors to die to hide aura-reading perks, than you can play invisible Claudette build, wasted perk slot in my opinion.
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@Flawless_ said:
I am ok with this addon being as strong as it is if it was an ultra-rare or had some kind of trade off, but it's a green addon meaning you can quite possibly bring it on every game and there is literally no counterplay to it. Zero. Nada you can do as a survivor to avoid getting found or hit.
I can slap on whispers and just bounce around the moment it lights on. Boom wallhacks with no penalty. Where's the skill on that? Get to a tile and hit a wall once and you know exactly where they're going. This crap is like the old prayer beads and as a killer main I really don't think it's fair. I just wonder how in the world did the devs agree that this was weaker than either one of his red addons. Shouldn't they after 4 years know what makes an addon strong or weak? Meanwhile most killers' "ultra-rare" addons (PH, Hag, Billy, Deathslinger, etc) are mediocre at best and sometimes detrimental to your kit.
Just how? How is it possible that the entire playerbase can see these things but the devs are like yeah this addon is mid-tier let's just leave it at green rarity...beats me.
The add-on only gives information, I believe wraith has add-on called All-seeing Blood and nobody really complains about his add-on that gives permanent aura-reading with 0 TR. Part of strength of this add-on is that it replaces tracking perks for killer, similar to how med kit replace healing perks for survivor, so you do not need whispers.The add-on is purely tracking and it was ultra-rare in PTB. Many of BVHR killers contain strong add-on of lower rarity and vast majority of ultra rare are trash so its miracle that anything good for killer gets put into the game in the first place.
Edit: I have also escaped blight with add-on, another overrated thing for killer.
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@Justalittlepeeck said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1609475#Comment_1609475
Like I said, with addon you turn instantly, thus you can literally smap rush button to chain them very fast, without an addon you have to waste a bit of time for turning
This guy is not about using his ability on loops. Blight all about M1 at loops and using his ability between transition of loops. Yes it is possible to make reads at windows or constricted choke points but that is not his main purpose and you do not need his add-on do this. Blight is really good at getting into chases quickly with his mobility, so his tracking is top notch. Your playing him wrong. Blight is not bad, just really bad lunge in his power feels like it adds counter-play for survivor when they are out of position and blight is weak in loops, so only part in where killers are strong, he is bad at in his ability. I got no complaints playing survivor vs him but playing as him feel awkward. Just my opinion.
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@Justalittlepeeck said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1608915#Comment_1608915
yeah, that's one of downsides you have to deal with.
you do not need add-on to do this. The issue is that even when you perfectly line-up everything, they can still dodge your swing. This isn't even counting perks like Dead Hard that mess you up by force. this really cripple swing really hurts so much. I really hope they up the swing turning by like 20 degrees. It would help him so much. I mean, I still 4k against most players but his ability vs good survivors is really lackluster. Imagine nurse with this lunge.
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@Justalittlepeeck said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1606625#Comment_1606625
> I have been playing him for 2 hours straight since release, not to mention a few days on PTB, a lot of KYF testing on both sides and watching other people play blight.
I had enough playing him. You can watch any other Blight gameplay to see what I am talking. I will make such posts day one because I don't need to play #########, random and flawed killer for months to realize he is #########, random and flawed.
Also, if you think I didn't have enough experience on him, then you must be thinking my points about his power are incorrect. You are welcome to prove me wrong.
Good luck proving that his power is not map and spawn dependant, it cannot be dodged easily by anyone who knows who to dodge billy and that it is can be used in most loops to effectively shut them down.
It would be fun to watch you try.
The only issue I have with his power right now is Lethal Rush Lunge, Until His lunge gets a hotfix in turning, the power will have limited skill expression and will be in 100% in survivors control for whether you get hits or not. He has old Oni problem when he came out of PTB. You can still 4k with him with only M1 but his success has nothing to do with his power at the moment.
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@azame said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1605551#Comment_1605551
You should stop insulting survivors. I honestly would rather him have free turning but that's me. I am a survivor main have been since day one. Also if the killer truly doesn't have real chase counter play it is in fact boring. Would you like survivors to pre-throw and rush gens? That's the equivalent of boring killers.
I have other comment to say to you. remember our discussion regarding deathslinger regarding counter-play, Blight might potentially have zero counter-play options against survivors turning circular or linear objects or even faking going one side, then just turning other side from this extremely crippled lunge. Just remember that its people like you that force developers hands to design these impossible to play around drawbacks for m1 killers that render their power worthless. I hope this power has enough counter-play where even when a survivor is completely out of position, the killer is not even guaranteed to get a hit. Its like worse than playing killer with no power at all.
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@AChaoticKiller said:
they did change it and even increased its speed, did you even read the patch notes? he is still locked at a turn rate but the speed and turning during rush was buffed so that indirectly buffs his attack turn rate.
No they did not change it. They changed turning rate when running. As long as your turning corners or properly sidesteping his lunge, he can't hit you. Its sad that they did not increase it past like 35 degree. Just wait 2 months when people get really good at it. Very exploitable killer.
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2 escape, 2 kill never made much sense anyway. I mean for one, this result implies that all 5 generators and exit gates are powered every match, otherwise, how else would two survivors escape without a key. by this standard, it means survivor always wins and the killer is just a pawn for survivors amusement, a dark road to not talk about.
survivor's emblem system is individual performances based so as long you hit all the checks, you can never "lose" if your good but escaping as whole is team effort and that isn't really reflected in pips for survivor. My guess is so that survivors are not punished for getting a bad team in solo queue and it makes so that if you die early as survivor, you get instantly the result so you can move on to your next match. The side effect is that after like 2nd week, everyone who plays survivor regularly and wins more than they lose will be rank 1 because you ** can't ** depip(lose) because emblem system does not properly reflect winning/losing from team perceptive of the game.
When comes to killer side, it does properly reflex individual performance, but it punishes hook suicides/mori/dc on 3rd emblem for killer because you can't hook someone 3 times if they die instantly and it does not consider instant downs as separate hits towards chaser emblem(4th emblem for killer) and again, because you can draw from 2 kills/2 escapes, even if you face good survivor teams, you'll never derank even when you technically lost.
The tournament has its own funny scoring, so its fascinating that nobody can really decide a win condition. I wonder if they'll ever fix emblem system reflect winning and losing or perhaps its better that no such competition exists.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Are we now seriously applying a Tournament game to the standard DBD game?
why wouldn't you? Tournaments are literally just playing the game and the results speak for themselves. There are few problems though to say its perfect representation. one is that there are some rules that slightly distorted real game from tournament game. For example, Survivors are only allowed to have 1 unique item, only yellow items and your only allowed 2 of same perks on each team for survivor. Also your not allowed to same killer for all games. I feel like killer players will reserve Spirit for the best teams because they know survivors can not pick more than 2 iron wills. I heard Oni got picked and all 4 survivors escaped. Overrated killer. Also notice how there is no billy like some people believe. I wonder if anyone will dare pick clown or some other trash killer and try to pull an upset in like finals or semifinals, that would be super hilarious. then again, DBD is more fun to play than watch so I'd never ever watch it. just skimmed through it.
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@Deadeye said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1595992#Comment_1595992
Well, you expect a pretty perfect play with these assumptions, and that is far from reality. Beside that, the new killers, including reworked killers, surely go into a direction that get increased ability of downing survivors. The game is not that survivor sided and error depending as it was. Downs are not mainly caused by mistakes anymore and the survivor skill level is pretty bad at the moment across all ranks
Yep, the stronger killers force out error consistently and rapidly. I do not agree, you should always strive for perfect play even if you do not ever reach it and try to play the best of your ability with the tools that you are given on both sides. I also don't see any problem with matchmaking or survivor skill-level, mainly problems with emblems in defining winning/losing at times. The game is survivor sided, Its just that many survivors aren't very good, which as result makes a lot of killers really underwhelming for the most part against good teams.
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@Deadeye said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1594174#Comment_1594174
I don't see how pallets are related to Selfcare. You can also heal at good windows. The "other" death of all survivors is when you have continuously injured people that go down within 5 seconds because they didn't see from which side the killer is coming. The time you "waste" on Selfcare comes back in chase by extending the chase. And if the survivor can't run a killer for 16 seconds after a hit, it is not Selfcare being bad.
Most people just compare the time you need to heal with the time you could do on gens. And that comparison is irrelevant. If that is the argument, then healing overall is a waste of time, and I think we can agree that this is bs as well. Regarding efficiency: Ever noticed? A survivor selfcaring for 32 seconds takes 32 seconds. Two survivors, one healing one being healed for 16 seconds also wastes 32 seconds. Same amount of lost gen progress. If working on the same gen, it is actually more efficient if the healthy one stays on the gen for 32 seconds and the injured one selfcares, just to dodge the team slowdown.
The strength of Selfcare is not that you can heal as often as you want, it is that you can heal when you NEED it. And that is most likely, like with every other medkit or healing perk, only happening maybe twice per match. The bad thing is that people use Selfcare as often as possible, that is not the perk's problem. Run Bond and see where survivors waste time, crouching and hiding. It is the survivors, not the perk, that sucks, because they don't know when to use it and when they shouldn't.
my #1 fear when playing killer against survivors is against survivors that do not heal and play the game is very ironclad way. It makes gen speed go so fast. It shows very high degree of confidence in playing survivor and it is very skillful. In my opinion, every hit you take as survivor is a mistake on your part and I think one of the major reasons to why survivor has trouble in piping in some games has to do with benevolent emblem. Its too based off killers actions rather than your skills as survivor and it makes very little sense to "build-up" mistakes to pip(win) in the game. The overall theme is that your playing in a mindset that looks to omit error from your play rather than encourage mess up. On lesser tangent, It goes on to say that instant downs are very good difficulty modifiers in DBD, the other two being undetectable and aura-reading through walls.
On side note, Really good killers are killers that makes a lot of good reads in a row and to some extent, It forces pallet drops. self-care and healing is like the chew chew train that eventually goes off the railroad track. The slow generator are product of the constant insecurity of needing to heal. This is not to say that healing is completely useless, Resetting everyone health state is really good when your forced to use unsafe pallets as those pallets have large margin of error as they rely on your reaction to stun the killer on mid swing and survivor has a lot of latency issues with that but most of the time, majority of the loops are relatively safe such that playing injured isn't so much of drawback as it looks. its why you see so much Iron will compare to self-care. In reality, you can only waste pallets in two ways, getting hit and putting pallet down and healing instead of doing generator when your teammate loops. Healing/resetting is best used when a killer is not applying kill pressure which is rarely the case the better the killer player is.
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@Almo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1594076#Comment_1594076
Self Care is actually more efficient. Heal time is the same: 2 Survivors healing for 16 seconds is the same as one for 32 seconds with regard to doing generators. But there's no time spent finding each other. Self Care's performance with regard to Survivor outcomes is quite good, actually.
It's not always the right play to spend 32 sec to heal, but it's not always the wrong play, either.
I think I should put this response on a keyboard macro. :D
self-care is best killer perk. The main reason why people look down upon self-care is because the perk trades health states for pallets for when other people are in chase while you heal. what you get at the end is a map with no pallets and everyone healthy. a death sentence for survivor. Its also one of the easiest heals to interrupt so people waste extra time in odd places to self-care for what could be spent on doing generators or healing on generators and saving perk slots that actual help win the game.
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@Yung_Slug said:
So many of the perks that get introduced to this game fall flat because of unnecessary restrictions or numbers that are simply too low. These perks have interesting effects and/or good potential but never get used because of this. Examples include Mindbreaker with its 50% gen requirement, Trail of Torment with its gen reveal, and the upcoming Hex: Blood Favor, which is not only a hex perk but also has a cooldown, easily making it the weakest Hex perk in the game.
Please devs, don't be afraid to make powerful perks. Even if they're too much and they need to get nerfed, at least we'll see some more variety in the meta instead of the same selection of perks almost every game.
Its because they don't want any perk to succeed. They release a cool idea for either survivor or killer but make the perk on purpose garbage and than they never go back to it again to change it. Its probably because they have very tight schedule when it comes to releasing new maps and new killers so they need to make their deadlines and changing perks/making perks is like secondary pass time.
I mean current perks that they stated that they might look at are:
This is not happening
Slippery meat
Cruel Limits
Monstrous shrine
Technician
5 months later or something, none of those perks are changed and for reference, none of these perks will ever get used even if they do get changed because none of these effects are wanted. This is not happening is perk for newbies to hit great skillchecks, but the issue is that they weakened skill checks to the ground on generators and the add-on that med kit have to preserve charges from great skillchecks progression are not really worth using over item charge add-on. The only thing I can see them changing on this perk is making the effect work when Healthy. Slippery meat is actually usable perk, but maybe they don't know about this. If you use vigos offering x2 and run ace's up the ante perk on two members on your team, you can jump off a hook at nearly 100% chance out of 6 tries with 4 people running Slippery meat, It is just that solo players are not coordinate enough to coordinate their perks to ever use this perk and luck in general is a joke statistic. I think good rework to luck would be that if you bring luck offering, it increases chance that survivor if they escape gets to keep their add-on on their item that applies to entire team. Technician is another newbie perk for failing skill-checks and it has niche effect of decreasing generator volume. If they want to make this perk worth anything, It needs make entire generator silent when worked on, the chance of it not exploding on fail skillcheck should be 100% and maybe it should reduce penalty for failing a skillcheck by 5-6-7%. Even with all this. I doubt anyone would even consider running Technician.
As for killer side, Monstrous shrine could just make survivors die on hook faster on every hook instead only the basement.2 years ago, they did this change that increased survivors hook time from 60 to 45 second,maybe this perk could bring it back to what it used to be at 45 seconds from 2 years ago. The problem with this perk is that the perk encourages camping hooks similar to insidious and survivor players wouldn't be very happy to face this even if it was good. Cruel limits blocks vaults for where generator is poped, very useless. Even if this perk got reworked to block generators for where killer is during the chase, It still would not get used.
If you ask me, you shouldn't try to improve perks that have no hope of ever getting used. You should look at potential perks that players currently use and try to look at perks that have potential synergy to further increase their satisfaction with said perk. For example, apparently Lithe gets used a lot as exhaust perk, according to stats, Maybe you should look Lithe and make it so that pressing E turns off Lithe so you can control when you get sprint burst of this perk or maybe a perk like Dance with Me should have cooldown removed so that people can use Lithe with Dance with me. Sprint burst gets used a lot as survivor, maybe perks like Fixated walking speed should work even when injured so people who enjoy sprint burst can enjoy sprint burst more. I'd probably never use it over dead hard but I see a lot of players use other exhaust perks when I play killer, so there is that.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1584536#Comment_1584536
Really depends. Certain killers really can't do anything against safe pallets unless the survivors make a mistake. I mean Nurse and Spirit have to sweat super hard to get 2k games against a lot of these teams. Two killers have tried to play Doctor against my team in the last two tournaments and they managed 3 hooks total in 2 games.
It sounds like the tournament is banning too many things away from the killer and the killer is setup to fail in those tournaments because they're relying in base kit of killers which is generally speaking extremely bad. I think major things that tournament should ban are med-kit styptic agent, Toolbox-Brand new part & keys and the killer side should ban all equivalents of ban Mori which include ebony mori, ivory mori and all killer add-on associated with Mori. Those items change the game too much when stacked and skewed the game very heavily one side. The other killer stuff is fair game though. It sometimes feel like a lot of really good add-on on killer in capsule the killers true form. Although I find it funny at times for what dev consider strong and it always gives me a good laugh. I imagine the reason why base-kit killers are weak towards the game is so that newcomers survivors do not have too terrible of gameplay experience, though I imagine that it ends up being the case from the game having high-skill floor and smurfing within matchmaking. No clue why anyone would even attempt to play base-kit killers that are balanced for rank 8-20 against veteran players in tournament setting. It just does not work.
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@Todgeweiht said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1577734#Comment_1577734
How are jungle gyms unfair? Unless you are playing a completely M1 killer like GF, legion or wraith you have ways of cutting them.
they waste x amount of time by the fact that you can treat a jungle gym like safe filler pallet but many experience survivors will try to greed the window and than use window as vantage point or look for red glow for when a killer turns a corner. Basically your forced to break the pallet and the killer gets nothing for it than you just run next to tile and do same thing while everyone else just does gens. there is some very specific red glow mindgames on those tiles at very specific positions but they are a bit unreliable and rely on your intuition of seeing people through the wall. It is just surprising for how few people are able to loop the basic m1 killers for 3-4 minutes on super favored survivor loops and how badly most survivors fail to hold m1 on super easy skill checks but the game is pretty casual as most of the killers are easier to beat then a dark souls boss.
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@ScottJund said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1576907#Comment_1576907
Can't you say the same silly argument apply in reverse? You think there's decent counterplay because 99% of people don't know how to play her properly.
No one really flawless at DBD. Its more of how many mistakes killer has to make vs how many mistakes survivor has to make. Some games are legit unwinnable for m1 killers because the auto-pilot nature of the game for survivor. Spirit,Nurse,Doctor,Freddy and Pyramid head have the tools to win because they're able to challenge every loop at equal or killer favored tile. They just make the game "fair" on both sides.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SL7mlvenf7s&t=8sThe tools to win does not mean free win. It just means, possibility to win. It can be argued that DS,Huntress and Oni have some chances, but their power has too much definitive auto-pilot gameplay that they might as well not be considered. too slim chances to win. Billy used to be there too, but he is very far away now. Ideally, all the killers should have opportunity to win with like iri-add on but its just not the case and a lot of the games are games that you feel like you had zero influence on match outcome. A lot of the time in the game, It feels like killers need add-on and creative perk synergy's to become scary raid bosses but I feel like creativity for killer is very low as not much gets added to the game for killer where as the game is already complete from survivor side.
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@gibblywibblywoo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1564648#Comment_1564648
This is a fair point. In a way I agree with your way of working it out with percentages. I'd consider your 50/50 thing to be fair in regards to most other killers. I don't agree entirely on that being the case with the more controversial killers in the game currently, however.
If survivors got their way, Killers would never win. The game moves too fast for that. Its part of the reason why I think Billy, Oni and Demo are insanely overrated. When I play against those killers, I feel like i am a god against them but I also understand its not exactly fair. I kinda demo got stronger in his add-on department and Billy/Oni returned to their old form. Keep dead angle part on Oni though. It was way more interesting. Winning a chase against Deathslinger feels so fulfilling. Its also a shame for when Deathslinger is on point and he loses even though he hits most his shots, but that's just 4vs1 aspect of the game. I hope new Blight killer on PTB gets smaller collision zone during power, full control of his lunge and they fix his fatique to always apply on hit(no weapon swipe), miss or power time out similar to Nurse. He will be really fun to go against when people get good at him. He has great potential. People that whine about Deathslinger are people that are upset that their total control on majority of loops is being taken away from them. Its Spirit all over again. People refuse to believe that he has counter-play similar to Spirit and Its always a bad Spirit when you win and good one when they lose. There is no winning that arguement when your always right. I think I'll close with that statement.
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@Reaver_Raziel said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1564548#Comment_1564548
It would be cool, but im just mostly worried if it woulld be too powerful. Technically being a permanent stealth killer seems insanely strong even if it requires 2 perks. It could be that its fair because you have to work for it, but I would say that it should probably have some sort of counter/weakness. Like Devour hope(cleanse totem)/STBFL(Obssession)
you need to hook obsession, that itself is luck based. Technically you can use Nemesis to lower luck component but now its 3 perks. Very old perks don't even require any perk synergy. STBFL is classic obesssion example. Its good single perk slot with no real requirements and limited drawback. Old survivor perks work like that as well. new survivor perks have similar problems too restrictive. I think it would be a fine perk but who knows, maybe I'm wrong.
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@gibblywibblywoo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1561931#Comment_1561931
Oh god this stance again. No. Having a strong 1v1 is not 'unhealthy for the game'. Billy, Nurse, Huntress, Oni, Freddy, Hag, even Demo on the majority of maps. All killers with extremely strong 1V1 gameplay. Difference? A survivor with enough experience can play around TO A DEGREE <(important part) they can't counter the entire power through just normal gameplay (or perks and items, hopefully) but they have a chance to show their skills and knowledge in return and potentially outplay the killer if the killer slips up.
Problem with newer killers sans Oni and potentially Blight (we'll see how Live goes) is that they're removing potential counterplay without replacing it with anything new. Giving the survivors extremely low chances if any, to counterplay them at all. This leads to short chases where the survivor may as well run in a straight line for all the good it can do.
Personally, I think that killers need like 70-30 chase. The reason being is that most of the standard survivor maps have 70% safe loops and 30% unsafe loops. I talk about this in my previous post where 70-30 for killer power and 70-30 safe/unsafe loop ratio on regular maps leads to a 50/50 fair match. one of the reasons I think dbd works this way is because survivors want to have the illusion of long chases and killer wants illusion of the control of a chase, so this formula pleases both sides. Morale of the story is that not every situation is fair for killer and not every situation is fair for survivor.
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@Reaver_Raziel said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1563577#Comment_1563577
Tbf if Furtive chase reduced your terror radius by that much outside chase, you could stack it with MnA and have 8 meter terror radius. So at the very least if it can reduce it by that much it should disappear if the obssession dies. But yeah that perk needs some love/changes.
And I do agree that some perks have a few too many restrictions(some restrictions are fine), but Im fairly certain that both killers and survivors were worse in the past. And they both learned tricks to counter playstyles or specific killers. Like looping, when survivors found out you could play a pallet for longer than one loop killers had to learn to "mind game" instead of mindlessly chasing survivors. Sure that one probably didnt take years to get around to. But I guarantee you most didn't do this back then. Why am I so certain? Because a lot still dont do it now.
yes but that would be cool. Unless you enjoy only going against the usual bbq/pop/Corrupt/Stbfl or other consistent perks. The thing with survivor is that survivor perks are so strong that even if you do not equip them, the killer often still respects them, for example they'll still slug you on the floor after unhook even if you do not have DS or they will still hit unhooker even if there is no borrow time and in this sense, it allows survivor to have perk diversity at the cost of risk. no such thing really exists for killer. Peanut is right though, killers over complain about survivor perks when they aren't in play most of the time. In some sense, they do a good job at discouraged disliked gameplay from the survivor side but it does make a bit of killer side more stressful. Its give and take.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1548242#Comment_1548242
When the point being made is that they're more powerful now than they've ever been before, it is absolutely fair to bring up the many, many examples (these only being a few) of how they were significantly stronger in the past. If you want to say that you still think they're too powerful, you can definitely just say "In my opinion, survivors are too strong right now" and that's totally fine, but exaggerating for effect doesn't make the argument any stronger.
I do not think the problem is that survivors perks are too powerful. I think its more that majority of the killer perks feel less impactful compared to the survivor perks, especially new ones that have possible cool effects but they get put down with too many restrictions. For example, Furtive Chase on paper looks like a cool concept perk where its obesssion perk that reduces your TR over time during the match, but the perk for some reason only reduces TR in a chase and loses all its tokens when Obsession dies. So many perks have cool ideas behind them but they are not worth using which leads to a very stale narrow selection of perks creating stale gameplay that have guaranteed effects for guaranteed impact. Its super anti-fun for killer to have a dead perk slot as it makes you feel like your always on back foot from the passive nature of the survivor perks. The game in the past was different back then because less players were good at the game, so the power in the past is less relative than power in the present. I feel like killers in the past relied a bit less on perks than in the present simply because opposition was worse. Maybe that is good thing, maybe it is a bad thing. Who knows I guess.
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@azame Disagree. Iri head gets complained about on Huntress all the time even though the add-on only jacks up Huntress reward for hitting hatchets which makes her that much more punishing on top of solid chase mechanic. Nurse is very special and not worth talking about but she has received changes many times, more so than any other killer. Oni has received changes from PTB and some of them are pretty weird like why his massive club breaks pallets slower than chainsaws or why he gets punished for confirming hits/downs on power gauge but yeah there is that. Billy just got changed recently and he was one of the ionic killers that certain survivors main did not enjoy going against constant reliable instant down and killer main defend it by saying that instant downs are fair(balanced) by the fact it requires survivor to make mistake/bad read.
You know what killers survivors never complain about? Demo, Why? Garbage. A good telltale to know if a killer is in a good spot is by how much friction they get. In some sense, a bit of complain either side is somewhat healthy even though its a bit strange. In some sense, killers need a level of unfairness to them and its matter of what level unfairness is tolerated/accepted. I would say unfairness is a matter of perception. Its what politician do, they manipulate perception. Guessing is outplaying the killer and its highest form of skill expression that DBD has. Its what makes the game so popular and it keeps people playing. It is what makes the game tick.
In term of fair guesses, that part is really interesting because DBD throws this curveball into the mix where a lot of stuff in DBD has lack of gradation and it contains a lot of 1 and 0's. True or false if you will. Its very observable within various tile sets and pallets with various strengths. I think that is big reason why a lot of the game has strong looping foundation because it allows any type of killer to be invented and the disbalances within guesses is supposedly offset by the killer's power. Its little bit like "I cheese you, you cheese me" and stuff ends up equal. Its strange but the formula works so I can't argue with a formula that works.
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@azame said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1560983#Comment_1560983
No I never said that.
You assume this potatoes to prove your arguement that makes it weaker when you say that.
Funny enough even ussylis 5k hour survivor main cant seem to run a deathsligner properly.
Its because Deathslinger has possible outplay potential at loops and during transition of tilesets. If you give ussylis a classic map such as Bloodlodge and you pick a ordinary M1 killer such as Myers and you ask him to loop Myers for as long as possible with the rule that if Myers gets bloodlust 1, he has to break the pallet, He can probably loop Myers for 3-5 minutes, In fact every good survivor can. Myers and every M1 killer can be beaten in a single chase. The only reason it does not happen is human error and that is ok because the game does not require survivor to win in a single chase.
The idea that survivors have the capacity to 1vs1 the killer and the expectancy to do so is already an extreme entitlement in itself. Its because survivors are conditioned to face weak killers in a chase so when a killer has strong/decent chase capacity, its like a shock. The reason why nobody offers to go in custom game to "show deathslinger counter-play" is because its stupid. Suppose someone does accept and they loop you for 60 seconds, that in itself is counter-play. If you include fact that the killer needs to search for the survivor to enter a chase and extra require to put a survivor on a hook, that is like 3 gens right there. Survivors are not meant to go from 0 to 5 gens instantly, Killers don't go from 0 to 12 hooks instantly either. they have to work for it. small chase after small chase, little by little, gens gets done. same thing for hooks, little by little, survivors die.
The clip itself shows counter-play. Deathslinger weapon isn't hitscan, past 10-18 meters, you to have lead your shots and predict survivors movement to slide into them. The counter-play is hard but its definitely there. There's also this idea that killers that have strong 1vs1 are "Unhealthy". Arguably speaking the only tool that a killer really needs to win is strong 1vs1 and a tool to contest loops. Map mobility, Stealth, Aura-reading, Instant down are very indirect forms to power up the killer and frankly speaking they aren't very useful by themselves. I am not saying that its impossible win with these tools but they certainly aren't very direct or obvious to win with and they often have large exploitable pitfalls and shortcomings which is why they're often very low on killer tier-lists.
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@Blueberry said:
No, it's not good enough to be a hex. This could be said for most the games hex's though.
Even if it wasn't a hex it's still pretty mediocre as good survivors will just use the speed burst to go to a different loop. 15 seconds is also extremely short.
The fact that it also has a cooldown on top of all these other issues is just baffling.
Hex's are such an extremely high risk choice that their pay off needs to be near overpowered to warrant taking that risk. Most the hex perks in the game including this one just aren't even remotely near this. They're high risk/low-average reward.
The issue with such a design is that you create new games modes that need unlimited reward for their unlimited risk. Its bad game design. You can transform all hex totem perks to have game breaking effects with no token system. For example Blood Flavor could just be Unlimited spirit fury with no stacks which is Unlimited inability to pallet loop. Hex:Lullaby can be Old ruin+Hard skillchecks for unlimited generator regression. Devour hope is already instant down+unlimited Mori which is unlimited game speed up. Third seal could be global permanent aura-reading+Permanent Undetectable for killer which is unlimited anti-stealth capacity(For the survivor). The problem with such a game design is that the perk either has so much reward that its effects are so game-winning that nobody would ever not equip the perk and its risk becomes meaningless because its reward is indefinite. If every hex was equally as overpowered, than people would just equip all hex's. It just doesn't really work from a perk design considering you can mash its powerful effects with various killer powers. I think that is the basic reason why all hex have average reward system with super strict requirements. Its just that cooldown has never been one of those requirements and that is just so odd for hex perk. It makes me think that the perk was originally a normal perk that got changed into a hex perk last second. Either way, I don't think this effect is exactly desired as the historical purpose of Hex perks for killers has always been time sink with expectancy for it to be disabled. That kinda why Hex:ruin has been used more than any of the other hex historically.
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@CalamityJane said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1551914#Comment_1551914
Watching killers play all day the entire game is "attempt to cleanse ruin." Gens are literally an afterthought when everyone's already dead on hook.
No perk should up to quadruple the value of an already meta perk. And it's not like you can ignore it and run the risk of Devour Hope. And it's a massive buff to noed, an already daily complained about perk, because now it's basically impossible to cleanse the dulls without having the killer on you all match.
If you think that's the "appropriate value of a hex" then I'm very glad you have no say in balancing the game.
I mean survivors have always said that the objective is boring and that they would prefer secondary objective. Hex:Undying+Hex:Ruin addresses 2 birds with one stone. It adds secondary objective for survivors called totems throughout the match and it addresses the killers early game and gives opportunity for the killer to contest rapid completion of generators. it has another side effect of fixing bad totem placements and removing the need to look into like 30+ maps of totem location.
For reference, you don't actually have to cleanse totems, It is possible win the game with Hex:ruin being up the entire game if the survivor optimally does the objective and win the chase. Its also possible with all other totem perks but the other totem perks have token system attached to them so there is anti-synergy with Hex:Undying.in my opinion, I don't think there is difference between losing to Hex:ruin from gen regressions in comparison to instant down from Devour hope. The result seems similar if not the same.
Thrill of the hunt, Haunted grounds and Hex:retribution are all failed iterations to try fix bad totem placement and make hex totems less risky so their interaction undying is strange. In some ways if you use these perks, there are are less dull totems to bounce undying from, in another sense you could get worst possible luck in cleansing totem and possibly activate multiple haunted grounds. I feel like its the nature of a killer running high-risk-high reward build where you could land up perkless as killer or end up snowballing really hard with haunted grounds.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1550115#Comment_1550115
Sums up my thoughts for the most part as well.
"In general all killer perks suffer from same problem they got too many drawback."
This is the main point here. Between killers and killer perks these days they just stack piles and piles of negatives, drawbacks, counters and downsides on top of a mediocre effect.
For one example, I'd say at least 90% of the killer perks that have cooldowns could completely have them removed and none of them would be overpowered.
We could even apply this sentiment to a lot of killer addons as well, where they put downsides that are so harsh it ends up making it worse than the benefit it gives.
The general level of balance they seem to aim for is around rank 10 which leaves them all being extremely underwhelming when taken into a high rank game with actually good survivors that are trying to win.
I think the issue with the problem is taking the word counter play far too literally. Perks themselves are suppose to be tactical advantages that in ideal setting have very good reliability and activate single match. I think the threading goal is they're thinking every perk needs drawback thus adding more counter-play when in reality it hinders the perk from ever activating in the first place and thus never gets used in any context whatsoever. Add-on have same problem, they're also meant to be straight improvements of power ideally scaling with rarity. Perks and add-on inherently are not suppose to have drawbacks. They're suppose to advantages or disadvantages that both sides play around in a given match. I feel killer powers are suppose to be like that as well and this new killer power feels like its boggled by too many restrictions so much so that it loses any skill expression and becomes like this niche tool that might get you a hit once or twice in entire match vs good players. Killers need perks that are very reliable and powers that can work in many contexts due to the 4vs1 nature of the game. Counter-play should be organic, not explicit and your not suppose to be able to hard counter killer perks or killer powers where doing X makes Y impossible. So i guess it is rank 10 balance to in some regards but I'd like to think there is more in-depth explanation to why these killer perks are so situational and why this killer power is so heavily dysfunctional.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1549540#Comment_1549540
If Undying wasn't a hex perk and was basically you giving up an additional perk slot to make survivors have to cleanse all the totems to get rid of your other hex perk, then that would be a decent trade off to consider I think. That would also seem pretty well balanced to me honestly.
However, it is a hex, which is where we run into the issue. You could literally have Undying cleansed first and now it did absolutely nothing. At least if it was say a Ruin instead you got a tiny bit of value out of it before it was gone, but this perk you got nothing.
That is way too big of a downside. Not to mention the side negative of also losing any stacks which limits which other hex perks it has synergy with in the first place.
Now if they added the caveat that its effect applies to itself as well, now THEN we could have some potential.
This exactly how I feel about the perk. The loss of tokens hurts any creativity in the perk and never ever mind the part where we spent half the game activating it on top of it being possible to disable and using half or more of perks slot to use it.
In general all killer perks suffer from same problem they got too many drawback.
The first perk only works for 30 seconds after kicking a gen. like why and to add insult injury, 80 second cooldown. The 3rd perk has cooldown... on a hex: totem.
I mean new killer is even more hilarious. We got a cooldown to use his power. we got a token system to limit how many dashes we can do, so cooldown on top of cooldown. On top of that, When we hit the survivor, we have to swipe his blade(Cooldown), than go into fatique(Cooldown) and the power itself has poor movement controls and bad lunge that you can easily sidestep. Its like dev said read all complaints about cooldowns and went like, "We'll show you cooldown and drawbacks". Well I think killers got the memo. Don't play new killers. Don't use new perks. I think if the killer power and killer perks had less drawback, maybe we could actually use these perks and the killer itself but who knows, wishful thinking.
The survivor already has decent perks to bail them out in almost any sticky situation. so if they get a good perk, Its more flavor and variety than competitiveness.
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For survivor perks, The 3rd perk allows you to get 50% of his charges back after the item expires... why is it only 50% and not 80%-100%? Using perks to boost items seems rather niche. The other perks are the usual filler useless-tier perks that survivor gets 80% of the time so nothing special there.
As for Killer perks, Why does hex totem have a cooldown? Its already a hex, as in you can disable it. on top of that, it has low radius and you need hit someone with it to capitalize from its effect. I am not a fan of first perk having 80 second cooldown. It should be 60 seconds like Make your choice where the cooldown is the duration of expose effect. The 2nd killer perk is only usable with Ruin because of token disappearing which is a shame. Loss of potential.
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@Blueberry said:
I agree pretty much.
Losing a game when you won every chase very quickly.
I want to lose because I was outplayed, not because gens are too fast. That is the most annoying thing.
Honestly I think the issue is less gen speed though, or more about map size and map design. The map sizes and how they are laid out just leaves it almost impossible to pressure the survivors how much you need to in order to slow the game down properly if they are even half decent. Obviously some small exception like Nurse, Spirit etc, but were are talking in general with most of the killer roster.
Currently as survivor your entire team could be completely trash at looping and all go down extremely quickly, but if you all know how to hold M1 on gens and not waste time you can still easily win. That's an issue imo.
Complaining about map design is pointless. It is not going to change. Reworked Badham will always have a school and that school will always have 3-4 safe/god pallets, a very strong window and the other maps which have jungle gyms will not change. A big issue for killers is how easy it is for survivor to "trade-down" pallets for generators at any point in the match. It does not matter if it happens early or mid game. It only takes 3 people to hold M1 generators in linear alignment(To avoid 3 gens) and for the killer to over-commit/make a few bad reads to lose the match. Fast chases is also relative term because the majority of killers lack lethality capitalize on survivor errors and those that do have instant down capacity do not have tools to challenge looping with rare exception to the Oni. Its one of main reasons why body blocking can be very effective strategy against most killers.
The alternative solution becomes picking killers that have highest probability to win all loops such as Nurse and Spirt mixed with perks that slow the game down which most commonly are sloppy,ruin/pop and sometimes Corrupt intervention. If survivors find it boring to hold M1 longer, than perhaps adding more reliable exposed perks that not rely on Haunted ground or Devour hope RNG factor would help killers have faster chases as mistakes would be more penalized.
The current problem is that majority of the killers can't capitalize on survivor mistakes quickly enough to change outcome of the match and those that can rely on perks halt generator progression and info perks.
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I mean they need factor in rank. rank 20 is not the same as rank 1 and properly measure skill.
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This is what happens when a popular narrative that get spread like "rank doesn't matter" becomes reality. I am not exactly sure where this narrative came from, but I assume it came from popular content creators such as ScottJund or Ohtofu or other false sources. A rank 1 is not the same as rank 20(a new player). If a survivor understands looping and plays really well, but he is rank 15, It is most likely that the player is a rank 1 who is purposely deranking and smurfing to avoid facing better players. Rank systems do not account for smurfing. The old matchmaking was way better.
MMR matchmaking can work, but you need to define skill in the game properly.
Killer skill can be define by 3 metrics:
1-How effectively you use her power(This is very difficult to measure due to various killer powers)
2-The ability to kill survivor of equal skill(Rank)
3-The ability for killer to acquire hits(Injuries) rapidly and generate momentium to acquire hook pressure/kill pressure. This is very important as it disincentives the killer from camping and encourages the killer to go for chases and win tiles.
Survivor skill can be broken up into 3 metrics
1- How fast they complete generators, If they fail, how close were they to winning?
2- Fewest possible hook states. Dying is obviously game-losing for survivor.
3- Ability to win chase(Current Chaser emblem).
DBD in my opinion never had a problem with matchmaking. The biggest problem it always had is defining skill and defining winning and losing. Ideally, the emblem system should reflect skill and than you can use rank for matchmaking purposes. A perfect match for survivor is when the survivor complete all generators, has zero hooks and win every chase and a perfect killer game is one where the killer uses their power to the best of their ability, kills all 4 survivors and acquires hits in rapid succession which eventually leads to hooks. Most games lead into the shades of grey and often they are not completely one sided. you can try to account for its gradation, but most games have clear defined goals called a win condition. For example, a popular DBD win-condition is that 1 kill is a loss for killer, 2 is draw and 3-4 is a win for killer. Personally I don't really believe in draws as most games either try to avoid or disallow draws, but a win condition can be anything at the end of the day.
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@ClickyClicky said:
I have close to 2000 hours.
Countering her? I dunno, it’s just like a sixth sense. Being able to guess what she’s going to do next. A lot of Spirits are predictable. Just as you need to be unpredictable as survivor against a Spirit or Nurse, a Spirit needs to be unpredictable as survivor.
Why dont I think shes op? Just based on thousands of games. I’ve played for 2k hours and seen good players, bad players, and in average Spirit doesn’t completely dominate as often as some other killers do. This was backed up with the stats last November too. This is why I complained about Billy on here and not Spirit because I noticed Billys were dominating far more often than Spirits due to Billy being easier to play and his kit having no downsides.
For example, consider the following scenarios....
Spirit hooks a survivor. She sees another some distance away with BBQ. She phases walks over at 176% speed. She reappears next to the survivor, but now her power is on cooldown so she’s chasing at 4.4m/s and she has to land 2 hits before that survivor goes down. This gives the other survivors time to rescue from the hook.
Now consider Billy. He hooks a survivor. Zooms across the map with bbq at 230% speed. He has his power available instantly, instadowns this survivor, now he leaves them slugged and zooms back to the hook to deny the unhook. If they’re already unhooked he can m1 to slug and then chase the unhooked, or he can arrive before the unhook happens and chase the would-be unhooker with an instadown.
Spirits kit has downsides. She has to 2-hit every survivor, she’s slow, her power has a cooldown. This keeps her in check and stops her snowball from being too much. Billy never had that.
That’s why after thousands of games I don’t feel like spirit is as overwhelming as people make her out to be. Not as much as Billy when things fall in place for him. Sure sometimes rng can hold his snowball back but when it starts its nigh-on impossible to stop.
Again my opinions are based on my personal experience based on thousands of games over a period of 2000 hours playtime so you may not agree but this is just my experience.
Really? I have played like 7 matches vs new billy and he has lost every single match. Even before the patch, He didn't reallyll feel like a threat. When you face Billy, you should assume that he has BBQ as perk, he and among few other killers is able capitalize on the aura reading due his speed. A player getting instant downed by billy chainsaw is clear cut mistake. Getting chainsaw while another person is on hook against billy is as bad as a survivor bringing a killer to hook during the chase on unhook event. Billy at base kit is very poor at loops, A big reason why people believed Billy was most balanced killer in the game is because he is killer that purely capitalize on survivors ignorance and looping error. Curving is technique that works because survivors want hug the loops of objects so that they can maximize the amount of loops they can get per filler/tile set pallet and billy could take advantage of this because he can glide around objects at very fast speeds. The problem base kit billy is that base kit billy has very long charge time and when he charges his chainsaw, he gets slowed down and survivor move faster than him meaning that most of the time, they're able to get to windows or make most corners of loops due to sheer slowdown of his chainsaw.
If you wanted reliable hit good survivors with solid movement with base kit billy, you needed to be around 4~ meters distance which is like half distance of M1 lunge attack, so its basically almost hugging them, but with charge time add-on, these add-on made it so that billy gets slowed for less time and survivor has much less time to react to his chainsaw, so for each charge time add-on used, he would gain like 2 meters extra distance, so suddenly, he can reliable hit chainsaws from 8 meters compare 4 meters and that is huge... difference. The curving add-on also played big difference, if he moves faster around during curving, it means that you have respect the possibility that he could curve around straight pathway. It created mindgames where at certain distances, you had the choice as survivor to either go outward to make his chainsaw miss or to predict that billy reads that your going to go outward and he can curve outward and hit you. Billy old add-ons allowed him to mindgame loops and be a very scary chase killer that perhaps has some opportunity to beat good looping.
I think major reason why billy got changed was because old Billy dumpster rank 20 survivors and the reality is that bad survivors are bad at looping and therefore, Base-kit billy will still dominate trash survivors because Instant downs is easy way dumpster bad players. Billy is easy to play against bad players because curving isn't even necessary to beat them, but his skill-cap does increase the better the survivor is. Billy changes are major step in wrong direction.
Spirit is different ballgame entirely. She is balanced around her cooldown of phase walk, her 110% movement speed and her cast time to enter phase walk and the requirement to hit 2 times. The 110% makes it so that majority of the pallets for her are unplayable without her ability, so most of the time, if the spirit ability is on cooldown, Spirit will typically break the pallet and your forced to drop them as survivor as they themselves are the mindgame, otherwise Spirit can just camp the pallet and wait till her ability is off cooldown, enter it and just hit survivor due to sheer speed, unpredictability of activation and scratch marks. I would say there are 3 situations that you'll commonly get into when playing vs Spirit. The first situation is, you drop safe filler pallet, she stands still at a pallet. Typically easiest thing to do against that is if the ability is on cooldown, just move to another tile if possible, If it isn't possible and she has her ability up, you need either pay attention to her small crystal lighting up or listen to footsteps when she moves in phase walk and try to exhaust spirit meter. a lot of the time you can either purpose run around it, then walk back and most spirits will just go right through you(If uninjured). The second situation is that she breaks a pallet, than uses phase walk to try cut you off on next loop, Juking in open field is really hard against a good spirit but I have done it, most of the time, you'll get to next pallet or window and you have the choice to either drop pallet on your side or drop pallet on the other side, the same option exists for window vaults and its basically another 50/50. Tileset loops are 3rd situation, they're very interesting but easiest to use. Again its all about listening to her footsteps, you can either drop pallet or use jungle gym/tileset windows as mindgames to drain spirit gauge. Spirit with Stridor is incredibly hard to mindgame as juking player who has good tracking fundamentals is very difficult. Its why people rate spirit as either #1 or #2 killer in the game. I think she's best killer in the game but I don't think she needs any changes. I think all killers should have mindgames to their ability that greatly enrich the chase. They shouldn't disable looping, they should make it harder to loop and that is exactly what spirit power does. Spirit and bunch of other killers that have some control in the chase is good gameplay.