Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@Demogordon_Ramsay said:
Old Feral Frenzy:
-5.28 m/s movement speed
-6 second duration
-Vaults pallets without breaking them
-3 second fatigue no matter what
-15 second cooldown
-Takes 4 hits to down
-Legion was 110
New Bubba:
-5.29 m/s max movement speed
-2 second dash per charge, 6 seconds total
-Instantly shreds dropped pallets on contact
-Only incurs a lengthy fatigue if you bump into something
-4 second cooldown per charge, 12 seconds total
-Always instadowns
-Bubba is 115
With the exception of actually having to rev it, Bubba's new saw is literally just an all-around better version of old Feral Frenzy. You know, the thing that broke the game so hard that they had to gut the Killer as damage control?
And before anyone tries to tell me, "But Bubba can't fast vault windows so he's balanced!" There's this crazy little thing called Bamboozle that prevents the Survivors from using the window entirely. I suggest you try it.
Seriously, when at a loop against a Bubba with Bamboozle, you have two options: Go down, or let him chainsaw the pallet and then go down. It's absolutely insane. He is old Legion on steroids and I don't understand how people don't realize this.
No offense, but I think your pretty bad at survivor if your dying to Bubba. Bamboozle with chainsaw killers has always been a stable strategy in their Arsenal. I mean billy strategy has always been revolved around disrespect pallets that if you drop the pallet, he has enduring and will just break pallet anyway and if you don't drop pallet, he curves it. I would say there is precise timing that when Bubba is at his 90th degree of chainsaw(The end of his sweep), you can drop a pallet and stun him to interrupt it, however the Bubba can purposely respect pallet for like one recovery sweep in which dropping pallet makes him break it (but billy can do this as well). Maps that have many windows chain together like Suffocation pit is a near instant loss for Bubba. Lery has nasty set of windows that if used correctly can make it very difficult to chainsaw, Dead end windows or Windows that Bubba has to go around with chainsaw like Haddonfield window in top house or Fence windows are also no-go for Bubba power. As for maps where every filler pallet/tileset is in isolation, I would say that Bubba can chew through many pallets quickly but you can still loop bubba for a good solid 5 minutes+ before every pallet on the map is broken assuming you don't corner yourself. This is assuming Bubba has abosolute perfect play with zero mistakes and realistically speaking, Most bubba's can probably be looped around a rock or tree because their driving skills are ass. I think its pretty crazy to compare Bubba to Old legion or current legion for first hit. Bubba is ok for average joe survivor but realistically good players will beat Bubba out of 9/10 times. That's just reality of any non-anti loop killer I'm afraid.
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@Kebek said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1491191#Comment_1491191
Does that include tombstones ? I hope not, they have enough counterplay & downsides as it is.
Tombstone Myers has even less counter-play than ebony mori. Myers could effectively not chase you for entire game, in fact he could play the game normally as T2 and then he find you just once and its boom 99 T3->Instant kill. I don't think they will weaken Judith Tombstone because they have a acheivement called Evil Incarnate that requires them to keep Infinity EV3 and Judith Tombstone in the game, but I do think that Purple tombstone eventually will be removed from his add-on list or at least severely weakened to like only work on 3rd hook. Its same with Ebony Mori and Ivory mori really, Its really super easy to fix, just make on 3rd hook. Its very bullshit mechanic at the moment and I don't it mori has ever been "well designed" in entire lifespan of DBD. Like at one point, it literally worked on first hook. The only reason why Mori exist in the form that they do right now is because SWF is either just as broken or more broken than this offering and whats super ironic about it is that people use this offering with other really strong killer add-on(Like Iridescent head) to purposely be toxic. Its same with using keys in middle of the match. Its very ironic when survivors say "GG EZ" when they escape with a key. Its like... you didn't outplay me, you just used a bullshit item that instantly wins the match for you. Keys and Mori are hollow victories and I do not think that either side will mind if they're completely gutted for sake of better game quality.
I think killer strength should be depicted in their Ultra-rare add-on selection if they need more power to win a match rather than a offering such as this one. I would rather face strong killer add-on than face Ebony mori as survivor. At least when your facing iri heads, the huntress has to actual hit shots and know how to play huntress where as stuff like mori are practically skill less in all regards and in my opinion has no place in the game.
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@Peanits said:
Just to clear some things up, there are going to be some add-on changes in the upcoming hotfix, as we've mentioned in the past. Some of the updated text found their way into the 4.1.0 release by mistake, but functionally they have not changed just yet. For the time being, the effects are those which are mentioned in the patch notes. After the hotfix, their effects will be changed to match the effects mentioned on the add-ons themselves.
Sorry for the confusion; those add-ons (as well as a bunch of others) will be changed pretty soon.
Small suggestion. For billy add-on "Mother's Helper", Change it so that you get 5% movement speed extra when revving billy chainsaw. Just remove the condition for needing to be blinded by a flashlight. A lot of billy add-on can be fixed by just removing the drawback of the add-on.
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@clem1710 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1483710#Comment_1483710
I would even say that's the most important thing lol
Well they weakened a lot of things. Leatherface can't cancel his chainsaw anymore. He has no charge time decreasing add-on. If you use his Iri add-on, after you hit survivor, you can't stop chainsaw which is major waste of time and Tantrum takes forever to get out of. Since you use all 3 token, you have a cooldown for breaking pallets with chainsaw. On top of that, he still has addons that now increase charge time of his chainsaw as if it didn't take long enough at base. I wish could press my power button to cancel chainsaw, chainsaw sweeps and not need to hit walls on purpose to get out of chainsaw sprint with iri add-on. Oh well, the changes aren't surprising considering Billy's laughable add-on list.
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@Blueberry said:
2 seconds makes that addon actually pretty good
Billy moves at 230%, 2 second is still too long. It needs undetectable as soon as chainsaw sprint starts. Still pointless as with most of billy add-on.
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Slugging for map pressure is good strategy and very healthy strategy for the game. Oni,Plague and Myers usually slug for pressure. slugging complaints usually come from billy camping slugs and hooks. The irony is that billy is getting removed from the game, so it won't matter.
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This game is average representation of what games should be like. Killer loses early game but gets few hooks, killer keeps pressure, if he triumphs, he kills one person, than cleans up the game unless he makes a mistake. Tru3 made an error and didn't manage to kill anyone early. He got a kill at like 11 minutes and that is just too late for killer. Its kinda weird how your average solo queue game does not have 3 generator pop on first chase, you would think it would be more common but it usually isn't the case as there is lack of coordinate and bunch of survivors are that pretty bad at looping so there is that.
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@Blueberry said:
That's one of the changes I wanted him to get.
PH is honestly really weak if you play him against decent survivors in the red ranks.
I disagree, Before his nerf to the cages, I went on 25k 4k streak with him at rank 1 vs red ranks. The main strategy with him is to find one person, torment them, down them and than cage them across map knowing that their teammate are nearby for instant unhook, than you can chase survivor knowing there is no DS and get an easy 2 hook(This is known as Tunneling). As for punishment of the damn, If they're zoned in a corner, you can just keep spamming range attack until they make a mistake and fail to dodge, otherwise, against other loops, you need to mix between faking the ability and getting M1 or predicting pallet drop than using M2. I stopped playing after cage change mainly because I find it annoying to play as him right now because I feel like I can't multi-task chase anyone while simultaneously defending my cages and it just feels like your fighting against your own power. I would argue that he is 3rd best killer in the game when played perfectly, but its really draining to play him now against Sweat squads. I just wish they bring back his aura on cages since normal hooks have auras. I understand that there are some killers can be dicks and instantly tunnel the survivor out of the game, but I like leave the survivor at 2nd hook and do many chases with them because I find it fun to chase survivors and I'll only start killing survivors when its like 1 generator because I'm about to lose. oh well.
Some people say that he has no counter-play and I am not sure if they're actually serious or just joking. If you mean in the sense that you can't loop safe filler pallets and loop jungle gyms in the traditional sense, they're right about that, but to say that killer has no counter-play implies that you can't have long chases vs him and that games outcomes are predefined. I will say that his 1vs1 is probably 4th strongest 1vs1 in the game if played perfectly but it is not very likely you will face best pyramid heads all the time. I think major strategies to know against him while playing survivor is knowing how to preserve key pallets, knowing your distances in which you can bait him into using his power on window/pallets to try to make him doubt his reads and knowing when you should pre-throw pallets to gain gain distance from pallet breaks. No doubt that he is tough killer to beat, but I think that is how killers should be. strong in 1vs1, difficult to beat/bully, but be beatable.
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@bubbabrotha said:
If you are playing to win, which I am, tunneling makes sense. By removing a link, you are making the rest of the survivors do more work, which makes patrolling gens more succesful. By tunneling someone out of the match you are making mid to late game much easier. I don't think it's the nicest strategy, but if you play to win that isn't an issue. I guarantee that person you refused to tunnel isn't going to care if you have fun, they want to win as well. It's a free for all. That's why I'm ok with scummy tactics on both sides. And I never play survivor. If you want to bodyblock, flashlight spam, or the like go ahead. We're all trying to win in the end.
This is why Decisive strike exists to not encourage tunneling as it is very easy to proxy camp hooks and focus one person down who has no loop to go to. Its basically the default strategy of killer. The other strategy being sluggng which has unbreakable, for obvious reasons, these perks can only be used once due to how powerful they are. I wish borrow time could counter facecamping in the EGC for survivor, It feels really bad to leave teammates on the hook knowing that there isn't no way to save them against certain killers that either bypass borrow time perk through TR modification effects or Instant down and normal killers, you need your teammate to corporate and bodyblock hits in straight line for exit gate and that is often really hard in solo queue. The meta perks that survivor use are meta for a reason. Now if only all killers were strong enough in the chase to be able to win chases..... and win in a skillful matter against all levels of skill. Sounds like delusional Utopia.
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Nurse ->Highest skill-cap
Demogorgon,Deathslinger,Clown,Oni,Huntress,Spirit->Medium
Billy,Hag,Trapper,Freddy,Plague,Pyramid head,Myers,Pig,Legion,Ghostface,Doctor,Wraith,Leatherface -> Low
I think nurse will always be hardest to learn, In fact I think that she is so hard to learn that nothing in this game comes even close to Nurse in term of difficulty. Demo,Deathslinger,Huntress and Clown are all skillshot killers and while skillshot are not craziest to learn, Its easy mess them up and make bad reads. Oni and Spirit powers are short burst-high pressure powers, If you get nothing from these powers, your kinda in a bad spot waiting to get your power back up again and this hurts you in long run. The other killers in the game do not have mechanic involved, they're more based around knowledge and nuance. For example when a survivor triggers a hag trap, you press CTRL+M1, There no mechanic skill involved here. The real skill of hag comes in understanding routing and trap placement.
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@Peanits said:
I feel like you've turned a blind eye to the plethora of perks that slowdown generators either directly, or by forcing the survivors to do other actions other than generators slower.
Corrupt Intervention, Dying Light, Huntress Lullaby, Ruin, PGTW, Surge, and Thanataphobia all directly slow down generators or regress them.
Then you've got perks like Discordance and Surveillance which help you keep track of the generators so you know where to go to keep the survivors off of them.
And finally, you've got perks like Sloppy Butcher, which makes other actions (in this case, healing) take longer. Times spent doing other things is time spent not doing a generator.
This doesn't even go into lesser used or more niche perks which could give you some extra regression/info/slowdown.
I know you wrote off perks like Ruin and Thrilling Tremors because they don't work automatically, but that's because getting them off the generators is your job. You, as the killer, need to get them off them so they can take effect. In Thrilling Tremors' case, that info helps you figure out where people are so you can go chase them off. Thanataphobia as well stacks with other slowdown effects and can was a lot of time (a heal becomes ~24 seconds when combined with Sloppy Butcher, double that for Self Care).
Perks aren't the only way to slow things down. They can help you, but they're not meant to stop all progress for you. The best way to slow things down always has been to play smart and keep people off of generators.
I think your post would be valid if half of the perks illustrated were even slightly impactful. Dying light gives more advantage to the survivor in free botany knowledge than actual help to the killer and Surge numbers are too low. Ruin and Lullaby are hex perks and until a perk that comes out to protect these perks exists, They're too much of risk for no real reward for when you actually want the perk to work. Only corrupt, Pop and to some extend sloppy have an impact, Thanto just being an extension to sloppy effect similar to how Quick&Quiet works well with Head on for survivor which is ok I guess. Maybe the problem would be less prominent if new perks like Surge were less trash and dying light did not give survivors free advantages.
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@Blueberry said:
As others have said, SWF isn't the only issue. You can take 4 completely random solo's that are each very good rank 1 survivors and they will still destroy an equally good killer, SWF just exacerbates the issue.
You could even make all 4 survivors use zero perks with the killer using whatever they wanted and they would still have the advantage, that's how slanted it is.
Bad solo's < Killer < Good solo's < Good SWF's
One of the issue's with balancing in this game is that they keep lowering the bar so that everyone can get over instead of expecting people to improve and overcome to reach the bar themselves. You see this in much of the perk and killer design for a while now where all the counterplay is extremely built in and handed on a silver platter instead of just making something decent and letting people learn how to counter it themselves.
I mean that is why whenever you play solo survivor, you practically need to get Iridescent in every emblem and practically carry entire team. It almost feels like you are the team rather being part of a team. If you win, its like you barely won. Solo is in balanced state.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvgpJn9QvewI think Tru3 summarizes Illustrates SWF VS Solo. Solo is nothing like SWF. SWF perfectly illustrates two very important points. The first is that SWF does everything faster by like... 3x because communication and optimization is far superior than solo. The other part that SWF showcases is the ability to bounce back and effectively nullifies any kill pressure that killer produces. In some sense, SWF undermines killers skill. They can fail every single possible loop and chase and in the end, It just doesn't matter. Some people use "Genrush" as excuse when they're not playing well as killer and they get beaten by solo's and stuff that is actually problematic just gets thrown under the radar. It does not help that majority of the killers are balanced around lackluster solo-play and new killers barely have any add-ons to compete against the top while leaving SWF as it strong as it currently is. You would think that they would at least add decent iridescent add-on for killers to deal with this problem, but that remains to be untrue.
what you get is two radically different games modes that look like following:
1 gen done+1 down(Demogorgon) vs 5 downs, 3 generator done in same 4 minutes.
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8% regression is equal 6.4 seconds of regression and base regression speed is 4x slower than a survivor working a generator. The major selling point of this perk is that it gives you over time regression without requiring you to physically kick gens but because regression is so slow, It isn't worth it. Suppose you surge a 35% gen, it will take 108 seconds for it to regress fully. that is really long time. on top of that, the only killers who can get use out of this perk are killers who aggressively chase survivors all over the map but also use M1 as method of downing. There are only 3 killers that I can think of that do that, Nurse, Clown and Deathslinger and all these killers have better perks to use than Surge. If surge regress generator by about 15%-18%, It might be justified over pop goes weasel but right now it has no real purpose. Perhaps in future, if they release a perk that when you hook a survivor, the next time a generator is regressed, it regresses at 400%(1:1 ratio in survivor repairs), than you might see Surge+that perk get used. As of now, This over-time regression perk isn't worth anything.
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@NekoTorvic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1452415#Comment_1452415
I think he is fine as he is, but i would tweak some of the numbers. I feel a lot of his addons could be base kit.
His cooldown on missed hits could be 1 second instead of 1.5. His reload could be 2.5 seconds instead of 2.75. His reeling speed at full range could be 5 seconds instead of 6.8 and chain charges could be a bit slower on certain scenarios. Like, i find it ridiculous how a survivor can just block you from reeling another survivor, while they are completely safe. There should always be some risk for a survivor blocking another.
I have saying for that, If you can put an add-on into base kit and it doesn't break the killer, It probably isn't a good add-on. In deathslinger case, every add-on he has can probably put into base kit and you probably wouldn't notice a difference in playing against him. he has like total 3 add-on that impact his gameplay which is iri coin(which is terrible) and warden key/grey add-on that affects reload and everything is else is meaningless.
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@OutcastEric said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1452058#Comment_1452058
This game is way more involved than poker though. Its a video game. I cant see the comparisons youre trying to make here. Maybe i just didnt take the time to read between the lines but i dont care enough to. Its my opinion but Myers weak? Are you trolling? lol! use surge, thrilling tremors, pop goes the weasel, and [any perk] id recomend enduring/noed/discordance/nurses/sloppy then tell me hes weak. This build can work on any m1 killer but its dangerous on him because he can one shot you. Any killer that can easily 1 shot a survivor and have stealth capabilities at the same time is definitely not weak. His only weakness is map control but this build compensates for that. True used a build that is hard to pull off and didnt make smart plays in order to win in that video. He purposefully played to lose. Killers arent supposed to play nice if they want to win
personally, I think 1 shots are highly overrated and very exaggerated/over dramatized in this game. evidence to be shown by having a killer that has 1 shots at infinity rate. A good team can easily beat it as Myers is very loopable. I don't think it matters what perks you use on Myers vs a very good team. The only thing that is good about myers is that he has add-on called purple tombstone that allows you mori people on spot, Other than that, He has very slow stalking without add-on, pretty average/bad stealth and very little agency on loops, very hard to build up 1 shot. He's fun to face as survivor because he's easy to bully at R1. The only way you'll win as him is if survivor is bad looping and you take liberty to camp hooks which tru3 didn't want to do as he knows it is unfun for survivor. Unfortunately Myers can't win the game by outskilling his opponent and that is good sigh of weak killer.
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@NekoTorvic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1452361#Comment_1452361
There are several problems I see with this game overall and discussing all of them would be very complicated. The problem is that since everything is interconnected, talking about one problem specifically as if it existed in a vacuum becomes reductive and ineffective.
I honestly wouldn't be opposed to survivors having more tools and mechanics at their disposal to defend themselves from killers if gen times weren't as strict. Then we could also have stronger killer mechanics and it would allow for skillful expression on both sides. Unfortunately that is not the game we're playing.
I think looping is mostly too strong and too easy to execute against most killers, so having killers that require you to be on your toes makes it at least require a lot more skill, quick thinking and prediction. Chases are massively in favour of survivors, which is why killers that are strong at it or can bypass it are way more lethal.
Your deep wound idea is interesting but i dunno if it'd be too strong. It'd definitely make legion stronger. And if applied only on hits to speared survivors and not on chain breaks, it might be an incentive for Deathslinger to always land shots he can reel in. However it should not apply this hindered effect on borrowed time. Deep wounds is pretty lackluster atm... wi sh they would do something about it.
I feel like the chain breaking and deathslinger getting rewards feels off in general. he is suppose blueball(be unsuccessful at hitting confirming gun hits) but when he gets the hit, its suppose mean be really impactful. Its like opposite. your incentive is to walk up to people as 110% with 16 TR with M&A, hope that survivor doesn't notice your great tall cowboy hat and does not switch on when tr music turns on and M1 them and only than begin shooting but given that every time you hit them, you give them sprint burst, they're bound to make to a loop and depending on safety of the loop, you have to make decision to play loop out or break pallet for more distance that inevitably leads to long chases, no kill pressure and fast gens. I just feel like he should be rewarded more for hitting shots with his gun on healthy survivors and not rely on his M1 as much. He relies M1 a lot right now which is why some people think he should be 115% but he is suppose to rely on his gun, that is why he is 110% and not 115%. This change would be like hybrid to that where you become a better at M1 for using your gun effectively. I think it would improve his chase time by making it more difficult for survivors to run forward for prologue period of time ahead of him without him being in range to take any shots and as result, his generator pressure would improve ever so slightly.
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@NekoTorvic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1450120#Comment_1450120
I believe that is what sets stronger chase killers apart. They're given the tools, in whichever form they come, to make plays that survivors either have a very short time to react to or have to predict in order to come out on top.
This post is really accurate. Its exactly the way I see the game. what people like LordGlint or DudeDelicious don't understand is that the game has certain time frame in which killer needs to win a bunch of chases, in my estimation, around 8 chases which is a lot of hits/health state loss. A lot of people don't understand this game has certain pacing to it, you need to win in around 6 minutes and that isn't a whole lot. It means that killers need to balanced around winning the game in 6 minutes. The survivor only needs to make a very small amount of correct reads to win the game.
A major reason to why deathslinger isn't a good killer is because he doesn't win the game in 6 minutes against good teams. In fact a major problem with him is that he doesn't really get rewarded for landing his first shot. There is more risk vs reward for missing his shot on healthy survivor than actually hitting it. I feel like a large reason to why this problem exists has to do with deep wound mechanic for survivor. Being Deep wound does not give any advantage to the killer and I think that is a kinda problem. When he does land his shot or he lands M1, you get massive sprint burst against deathslinger and it gives so much distance to the point that holding forward makes deathslinger lose and that doesn't feel good when the game mechanics compromise your ability to win as killer rather than skill of making reads. I think what would be good global change to deep wound is to make deep wound apply 5% hindered effect to give incentive for deathslinger to land shots on his gun and It would also help legion for what many people consider to be weak, a lot stronger in the chase.
I think a lot of people fail realize how powerful the entire looping mechanic is in this game and how overly aggressive you can be in the game as survivor and not really get punished for it. It is also impressive for how safe you can be/how little reads you need to make in the game to be effective at survivor and jungle gyms are just case in point in showing that. Most of the game can literally be played on just throwing pallets and running forward and if your team has good team chemistry on doing objective and healing, you'll win most of your games. I think the old conception of this game is that they wanted to make survivor indefinitely strong such that if the survivor was good enough that they could endless parry the killer but the killer would have tools to outplay the survivor. The issue being that most of the killers powers aren't reliable enough/exaggerated enough for that type of infinity reward system to put in place. The old system of map building and killer add-on creation vs new killer add-on/map building greatly converges on this problem. Old killers generally have good ultra-rare construction that gives killer a chance to reap infinity reward/power where as new killers have very bad ultra-rares, but the positive side is that maps are becoming weaker so it is reducing the survivor's skill expression and therefore the need for killer skill expression is needed less on their power. At this point, it becomes a question of whether less = more or more = less for little/more a killer power should influence the game. All I have to say about this topic is that the better your opponent is, the less opportunity you'll get opportunities to impact the game and the more required it is for your killer powers to be reliable to make a play happen in the heat of the moment. Often what is reliable yields to less counter-play and vice versa.
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@OutcastEric said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1451193#Comment_1451193
This game is a casual party game at best! It will never be competitively viable because RNG is a major factor in every game. If you take this game that seriously, then why not just play something more balanced? Tournaments cant even be a thing because how imbalanced SWF are, survivors would win probably 9/10 times. The new mmr system wont even show us each others standing so its pointless. They like wasting their time on projects instead of actually balancing their game
Poker is competitive game and its like entirely based off the luck of drawing cards. RNG is not what determines competition. The drive to win does. In DBD, winning is really fun, so when people say stuff like "This killer isn't fun", what they're really saying is they lose a lot to that killer but winning and losing is part of the game. I find it ironic when people say, "Rank doesn't matter and it isn't skill based" and yet people post screens of red rank vs purple/green rank. Another irony is that survivors/swf often smurf rank 20 accounts to face rank 20 killers and than blame matchmaking system. It is very see through. Its why it is important that they eventually looking into making killer emblem system in taking account for killer powers so it has accurate calculations. Anyhow, Myers is really weak killer and hopefully he gets reworked at some point to be strong killer but he is likable character in the game.
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@ScottJund said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1438376#Comment_1438376
Come on man, even in the video I mention the Nurse / Deathslinger having to actually be good for this to be relevant. Yes, you can outplay people with bad aim any day, easily. I am talking about extremely good Nurses or Deathslingers that have no individual chase counters. In fact, the entire video is mostly about more experienced people with thousands of hours being bored of the game and explaining why that is. That's it.
The reason why did not like Legion or Old nurse add-on is because they created predetermined outcomes in the match. The survivor is not suppose to have a perfect counter to a killer. If that is true, than you can just say that whenever killer X shows up, do Y. Its partially what happens for M1 killers. Your argument suggests that when huntress pulls up a hatchet, the only person that has input is the huntress players aim and not the survivor that wiggles. Countering a killer should be partial, It shouldn't be something that completely makes the killer power irrelevant. In regards to your DS+Unbreakable video, I've found that the best way to deal with the combo itself is to let DS activate and to treat combo like old Mettle of Man because the extra time that DS stalls hurts you more in the long run than attempting to play around the timer. It just sucks to play against because its direct loss of killer momentum for nothing and it makes you commit to tunneling for what the perk was suppose to discourage. Who knows, maybe they'll make DS deactivate when another player is hooked to prevent multiple DS timers being staggered. I think Tru3 kinda wishes that killer is strong enough to go for 12 chases so that the survivors fun in a chase is maximized. that is kinda why I think he defends strong killer design.
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That video might as well read, "I want to 1vs1 killer and I expect to win every chase against the killer". Survivors consistently get free positional second chances from exhaust perks with very minimal counter-play and this thread is about deathslinger getting hits with M&A because they can't look out for a big tall dude with cowboy hat or react to the TR bgm playing. Sounds really pathetic to me. Realistically, the killer is suppose to win every chase but every chase he wins should always come at a cost if opposition plays it well. A large reason to why people enjoy playing against these very basic killers... Trapper,Wraith,Demogorgon, heck even Billy has to do with how much control they have in a chase. Its almost like your expected to get iridescent chaser against these guys if you don't make a mistake as survivor and against a coordinate team, that's an easy loss.
A big reason I enjoy playing against Huntress for example has to do with the fact that you can't really tell if the huntress is going disrespect pallet or predict your pallet throw that results in a hit. With Spirit, you have to listen to her footsteps and make accurate guesses to waste her phase walk. With deathslinger, it is often about baiting shots, understanding his orientation, using LOS against him and in general being a tricky target to hit. One of my favourites killers to face in the game is Infinity EV3 Myers and part of the reason why I like him has to do with his fast vaulting and extended lunge. Most of the time, your able to get the pallet if a killer decides to vault as vaulting is really slow, but with Myers, those windows become unsafe and they are real mindgame themselves. These mechanics enrich the game and add more dimensions. You get way more gratification from getting iri chaser against killers that have favorable chases. Those extra dimensions annoy survivor and thus, they get labeled as "Boring" or "Annoying" because they're no longer in complete control like they are with M1 Wraith.
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@Peanits said:
1-2% per stack sound small on paper, but in practice, it's a pretty massive increase. Even at 1% per stack, that would allow a 4.6m/s killer to catch up 33% faster. At 2%, that'll let you catch up 66% faster. Granted, only at the very end of the match, but even at 4 stacks you'd have a huge amount of speed that never goes away.
I'm not wholly against a buff for Fire Up or anything, although movement speed would probably be a little much. I do find it to be a pretty decent perk especially when combined with perks like Brutal Strength. Maybe not something you'd slap on in any build, but it can be combined with other perks to be pretty decent.
I think the issue is that you get brutal strength at the end of the game when you don't need it. Pallets are typically used at the start of the game, not at the end of the game. I think a good buff to fire up is making it start with 5 stacks and you lose stacks each time generator completed. You guys are making early game collapse partially because you believe that killer early game is problematic, but the killer is suppose have a bad early game because all pallets are up. This perk would massively help the killers early game in breaking pallets and vaulting windows to get fast early game chases. Instead, you have this useless perk that is suppose help you in late game when the effect is at its weakest. Basically what I'm saying is that killers are suppoe to lose early game because their first chases are always hardest as all of resources on the map are on the board. If you guys create an early game collapse, you could really break the game for survivor, especially in solo queue where your teammates are not exactly the best. If you want to make killer early game better, than invent perks that help killers early game similar to corrupt intervention and whispers. Fire up could be one of those perks.
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@slim0b said:
I mean, if you've watched a couple of videos you already know who's better, but here's a simple one to demonstrate by tru3
https://youtu.be/knr_mNEFz1s?t=1
You can either
Pull up a hatchet& aim at survivor, maybe wait a while if they spin, throw and you're more than likely gonna get the injure even if the hatchet was around 3cm around their body. After repeating the process 5 times you reload 5 charges at a locker in 4 seconds.
or
ADS, maybe wait a while if they spin like maniacs, and shoot with a tiny buggy hitbox that can even go between the survivor's legs (yes I'm not joking), spend around 4 seconds reeling survivor in considering they might escape if next to an obstacle, and hit them. Then reload while tremendously slowed down for 2.75 seconds.
It's quite obvious who has more lethality, deathslinger might be more fun yeah, but he's nowhere as near as good as her.
And some may say "ooo!!! you shouldn't compare them different concept!!". They're both 110% killers, they both use ranged attacks mainly, how are you expecting the community not to compare?
I'm in no way asking for a huntress nerf, she's balanced and everyone knows it.
Just a deathslinger minor buff is what we need, like maybe make him 115% and he'll be good to go.
Well judging from nurse, billy and leatherface changes who all did not have iri add-on, Huntress will be only killer to have incomplete add-on set, so expect 6-12 month down line, a huntress nerf which really sucks because huntress is like one of the most fair character to play against similar to billy. Deathslinger just needs more lethality so holding W and Health states do not affect him as much. I think an interesting change would be that if he hits you with his gun, his gun applies a 5% hindered penalty when you are in deep wound. The idea being that the survivor is mortally injured from his spear and is limbing for his life. I think this could be general change to deep wound to make it more threatening and Deathslinger as a whole. perhaps this change could improve Legion,weaken styptic agent(survivor instant heal) and meta perks such as Borrow time or potential future meta perks like Soulguard.
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My take on patch log is that billy changes are going punish new-player billy who are not familiar with curving and ultimately it might make players who take many risks of chainsaws not take risks due overheat mechanic and I personally like billy that are greedy for chainsaw because it really allows you to push loops against them in dramatic way. I don't think I ever had problem facing billy. Its often more for how killer plays rather than who killer is.
Leatherface perks knock out will becoming as it doesn't work with the powered attacks and the other perks that got improved most likely will not be used. I think leatherface might be weaker in some regards and stronger in other regards. Leatherface will probably be worse for same reason billy will be worse, the charges are his cooldown and I don't think extra speed boost will impact leather faces gameplay. most of these add-on are likely oriented around reducing these severe drawbacks and I have feeling that their charge system is strategically choice in weakening PWYF perk on leatherface by making it consume charges for every chainsaw extension you do and that itself is will weaken perk synergy for leatherface.
Its no surprise that instant down killers are become worse as those are cliches that bad survivor mains use against killers to showcase that look, killer is "powerful" when its mostly attachment to second chance mechanics on health states. Its funny because hilliby according community is top-tier(which in my opinion is overrated but I understand why because of lame tactics) and Leatherface was bottom tier, yet both are likely to become worse after the change.
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@Respectfulnancymain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1406170#Comment_1406170
Havent you been saying that pyramid head is horrible now BECAUSE he cant tunnel?
Nobody said pyramid head is bad. Punishment of damn is solid zoning tool and it is very good at loops. Pyramid cages are bad now because their purpose was to farm survivor hook states IF survivor instant unhooks just after pyramid cages them and since survivors literally know where cage spawns, they instant unhook people. Pressuring generators is survivor main made up concept. The best generator pressure is eliminating a survivor out of the game as quickly as possible and these cage were designed to do that. Its part of the reason why OP is rank 1 killer and your rank 5. I know people say that rank doesn't mean anything but it is obvious that a player who can get to rank 1 and keep at rank 1 is better than someone who can't get to rank 1 regardless for how easy/hard people say ranking system is for both sides. The cages teleport from someone facecamping is fine as that behavior is seen as very toxic but the fact that survivor can see cages and killer can't from their own power is really stupid. Also before anyone asks, "Just don't use cages and use Mori", Mori punishes the killer in the 3rd emblem because mori someone isn't hooking them which is what 3rd emblem tracks so you basically never want Mori and offering itself needs re-balancing anyway.
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@Peanits The patch notes for pyramid head might as well read "We changed Pyramid head cages to give free unhooks to the survivor". I don't even know how you managed change a mechanic that is intended to help the killer win the game(Tunneling) into a mechanic that helps survivor win the game(Caging). Welcome to 2020 where we turn killers power into survivor tools.
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@Peanits said:
To play the devil's advocate, what's stopping me from cloaking as Wraith or moonwalking after you as any other killer for 30 seconds and then downing you? Or even just slugging you for 30 seconds and then picking you up?
The current issue with DS is that DS is anti-momentum perk. It is a perk that punishes the killer for doing "too good" at their job if they hook people too quickly and many survivors have DS timers going at the same time. The killer should not be expected to memorize multiple 60 second timers in their head. Its suppose to be anti-tunnel perk. It should just deactivate after another survivor has been hooked. If both unhooker and hooked person get unhooked, It means survivor team messed up and killer capitalized on their mistakes but this can be easily prevent with Borrow time.
When it comes to killer powers like Pyramid head, Killer powers are kinda like extra tools for the killer to win and you guys choose a killer a extremely taboo tool for killers to win by. As sad as it is to say, Tunneling is a form of map pressure for killer because eliminating a person early on from the game is one less person on generators and it is one step closer to the killers victory condition. Unfortunately It isn't exactly a thrilling experience for survivor but it is part of the game. There are other taboo topic in regard lame DBD gameplay. A common one being camping which is best showcased by the killer Hag. Even if your not next to the hook, her traps make it look like she is "always" there and her strategy towards winning is oriented around hook camping. Another lame strategy exercised by killers and I personally hate this one, I'm going to call it slug-hook camping. The idea is that if you slug 2 people, you can hook one person, than pick another person and just drop next to the hook. This is commonly practiced by Billy and Huntress because Billy has instant down with no cooldown/drawback so you are unable to complete generators as half of your team is disabled but you are also unable to save anyone from hook/floor because you'll get instant downed yourself or the person you attempt to pick up/unhook will immediately be put on floor. Luckily there is now a perk that can counter this strategy in SoulGuard however I'm unsure of how effective this perk is at dealing with this gameplay. I don't think these lame tactic should be promoted in the game, however if the killer power suggests you to play a certain way that yields better results, than player will attempt exercise this gameplay within the game.
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@Valor188917 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1395228#Comment_1395228
Im not gonna take advice from you mate.
The 20 second rule is completely made up for 90% of killers out there, I watch Zubatlel alot who's arguably one of the best killers out there and unless he plays nurse each chase will take AT LEAST 20 seconds unless the survivor screw up majorly. Heck even fungoose will take more than 20 seconds per hit on ghostface if the survivor is good, by that logic you're only going after the weakest link each time and hoping that the map doesn't screw you over. It's simple math, even if the survivor holds W, you will take 20 seconds to reach them in most cases.
And I really don't think you're better than what the best people in this game have to offer.
I think if you want to really learn how to git gud at killer, I recommend looking up a twitch streamer/youtube named "Dowsey". He can examine your play and give advice in regards to killer.
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@Valor188917 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1394991#Comment_1394991
r u playing against complete potatoes or nurse/huntress? Because a chase will take a minimum of 20 seconds to get a hit on any survivor that knows what he's doing unless you surprise him.
That question is way too out of context. It isn't exactly applicable to every killer either because different killers have different win conditions. For example, Oni win condition is all about getting blood, so for him, as long he gets first hit, he is all about draining the blood out of survivors and in his case, draining blood for 40 seconds is just fine for him. Once he gets his power, he has a goal to try to down as many survivors as possible in single Oni charge so that he can keep them injured. Being injure=more future Oni powers and that is how you get massive snowball going. In general though, if your not getting hits every 20 seconds or pallet drop at very least every 20 seconds than your setting yourself up for a loss as killer. Its up to you to find ways to combat looping and for you to find opportunities to get the hits that you need to win the match within context of your killer/situation. So no, it doesn't apply to just Nurse and Huntress, it applies to every killer in broad context.
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@Onyx_Blue said:
@Devil_hit11 Trapper can fake out placing a Trap, he can set traps in god locations and 2000iq areas mid-chase and out of chase. He can place a trap at a pallet to bait a drop and save himself time regaining ground. Wraith can body block vaults and pallets while faster in cloak to get a free hit/down. He also has a very cool lunge post-uncloak that can be used as a saucy outplay on 50/50 tiles and get god pallets dropped quickly.
Face it, Bubba sucks and is far from underrated. He is rated completely accurately. Bottom of the barrel with minimum going for him. You're still insisting that i'm branching out to other killers in my arguments, i'm not lol Billy has nothing to do with this topic. Bubba is straight up basic af. I don't know how else to phrase it really. His gameplay sucks.
No, you just suck at playing Bubba. Bubba has skills as well. Driving Bubba chainsaw around loops when you have your stacks of speed boost without going into tantrum(hitting object) is a skill. Another major skill for bubba is time management. I have a rule when I play killer. I call it "20 second rule" and this rule states that if your not getting hits as killer within 20 seconds, than your chasing for too long and over committing to chases. When Bubba find obesssion, He spends time getting stacks and this usually involves losing obsession and re-finding obsession quickly, so tracking is very important on Bubba. Another major skill for bubba is understanding distances for when you are able to get a chainsaw, Ideally you want to get chainsaw hit on last hit before the survivor enters window tilesets, but you can play it safe depending on situation in the game. The chainsaw killers in general are all about attempting to greedy your chainsaw as hard as possible without hurting yourself in the process. This is exactly what Tru3 is talking about when he says that Bubba is underrated. Bubba doesn't suck, The people who play Bubba suck and refuse to learn to play Bubba in a skillful manner that is enabled by these perks. Insidious camping Leatherface is not really a strategy and it certainly isn't skillful. Bubba isn't some A-tier killer that is going to win every game, but he has tools to put up a fight to try to win the game that does not involve facecamping hooks.
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@Onyx_Blue said:
@Devil_hit11 you missed my point. What I said was you see who the stronger killers in the game are by examining them at pure base kit and seeing how dominating their performance is consistantly. Obviously I would never encourage or expect to see perkless/add-onless killers be commonplace, thus, that's clearly not what my point was angling towards.
I never once implied all killer gameplay is braindead. I heavily outright stated Bubbas is. You literally just backed me up by agreeing Bubba has no techs to his gameplay and all he has is 'catch up up to a survivor then rev up the chainsaw.' Every other of the 19 killers has a multitude of techs and outplays and playstyles they can utilise to have a variety in their gameplay. That to me is a terribly weak killer. Obviously all killers have builds that bring out the best in them; however, eating a pallet, relying on speed stacks is braindead. "If they drop it I go fast. If they don't they go down"...yeah, way to use all your brainpower with that one, lad. It's just a boring experience to vs. It is criminally dull. You would never catch me dead using a build like that. The fact that it's now become his meta makes me lose braincells just witnessing it.
"Every other has a multitude of techs". I mean what tech does trapper have. I mean his tech can be summed up into two sentences. you plays trap, If the survivor see them, he/she will avoid them, otherwise they walk into them. What tech does wraith have? I mean he goes invisible and tries to sneak up on people. Although I haven't talked much about survivor, DBD is very simple game. I think that is in part for what makes the game very attractive. What makes the game interesting is little nuances that you have to play around with and how your gameplay experiences change from game to game. Part of the reason why Leatherface relies so heavily on the perk has to do with the fact that his base statistics when rev chainsaw slows him down to 86% and 86% is really slow. Billy by comparison moves at 92% when reving his chainsaw, so in some sense, Billy already has PWYF stacks base kit hence why he isn't really reliant on the perk and he is more free to play around with other perk selections. The challenge behind Billy and Leatherface as survivor is to not play as much around pallets and more around the idea of utilizing window loops to create long chases. I don't exactly see how this is braindead and I think it adds element of advance strategy to overcome as survivor which both has strengths and weakness.
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@Onyx_Blue said:
@Devil_hit11 my comment is unrealistic? XD me saying that a Bubba using PWYF+Nemesis combined with Ruin+Surveilance doesn't prove Bubbas underrated strength, instead proves how weak he is to depend on braindead builds to be an actual threat is the most true thing you'll hear said. Bubba is insanely weak! Name a tech that bubba has with his POWER. Now tell me that i'm wrong in saying using 2 gen perks that when combined, always tell you where to be and where to pressure, combined with 2 perks that make chases ultra easy, isn't a braindead build. You eat a pallet, you get a token, they get greedy, they go down. You scare them off a gen/they get off voluntarily, you now see that gen white all the time until touched (yellow then red) indicating to you to pressure it. Those 4 combined make that match insanely easy mode for killer. It does not prove Bubbas strength, it proves his lack of strength outside of the build. A strong killer can play equally as dominating without perks and add-ons, consistantly. Bubba cannot do that feat. To say he is a weaker Billy is laughable lol Bubba has zero going for him other than being up a survivors butt in the open (or just a step away from the vault/pallet) there is nothing great about his power. Hence why this experiment is a joke, and Tru3, once again, is saying something controversial, but entirely centred around bs. Leatherface is not underrated, he isn't strong - this build on him is just his new found meta because it actually make him a scary killer, still outplayable, but by far a scary killer than him at basekit. I don't think you can even say anything back to that really, unless you wanna talk bs too.
Your definition of what a good killer is one that runs no perks and no add-on. This comment is unrealistic. that is insane requirement. I play a lot of DBD and how many lobbies do you see zero perks and zero add-on on both sides at red ranks. A vast majority of killers practically need add-on and perk synergy to win. While I won't disapprove that you can't escape as survivor or can't win as killer with no perks or no add-on. no perk, no add-on games are usually for new people that start just starting the game out at like rank 20 or something. I would say winning without them can be considered more of challenge and I'd go as far as to say that other side mess up on massive scale for you to be successful. There is no tech involved with leatherface, he is a killer that revs his chainsaw and it performs an instant down if you are not next to a pallet or window. most of his skill-cap involves using the perk play with your food to make his power a reliable source of instant down. your entire post makes it sound like anything that the killer does is brain-dead and if so, that is incredibly bias towards killer. You only need 4 perks and a set of add-on and if such a set of perks exist, than you can potentially get good results with that killer. The killer doesn't really need 20 different perk combinations and 10 different add-on combinations to be considered playable. They only need one.
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@Onyx_Blue said:
Look, what his experiments previously proved, was this: using particular perks and particular add-ons brings out the best in that killers gameplay. There is a huge difference between that and proving the killers strength. How much do you wanna bet, in Tru3's Bubba experiment, the perks he uses orientate around Nemesis, PWYF, Ruin, Surveilance, PGTW, Nurse's Calling and Corrupt Intervention; with fast charge, fast movement and fast cooldown add-ons. This would then back me up perfectly. Proving that a particular build on a killer will not prove anything about how underrated they are (Bubba). If anything, it'll show more proof to how lackluster the killer (Bubba) is. Bubba is the worst killer in the game. For the very reasons that his power is restricted by distance between you and the survivor, the tile you're in, and the lack of mindgames and outplays his power grants the killer. I hate to burst your bubble, but any killer player that relies on slowdowns, slugging and hand-holding perks/add-ons the majority of the time, is by far, not the best player in the game. Otz is the same, has great game knowledge, but the way he plays consistently just ruins it. Constantly slugging, using the brainless perks and add-ons etc.
your comment is extremely unrealistic to playing DBD. Your argument suggests that Nemesis+Play with your food/generator slowdown perks are crutches to Leatherface/playing killers. This is like saying that every survivor should play No Mither every game because health states are crutches and they should not run exhaust perks to bail themselves out of bad situations or use any perks that grant endurance/change your health state. As much as it sucks to be hook-slugged-camped as survivor, it has valid strategy to win. These types of expectations or made up rules as I would like to call them make no sense. Using health states, Exhaust perks and strong survivor perks in effective manner is strategically beneficial in increasing your chances to win against killer. They are tool meant to be utilized. Nemesis+PWYF is strategy that leatherface uses to offset his bad movement speed when reving up a chainsaw and it allows him to land distant chainsaws and you can curve certain loops/angles. You don't need those perks, Carburettor Tuning Guide+Beast marks allows you to do same thing as PWYF at 1 stack and people have known this combination for Leatherface forever. I wouldn't say leatherface is underrated, I would say that Leatherface is just worse Billy with a more limited skill-cap cieling. All you really need to do against Leatherface is use window loops such as T-L wall effectively and predrop pallets to prevent nemesis from activating. Its just that there a lot of red rank potatoes that mess up basic looping and get memed by Hex:Ruin even though totems in this game are in obvious positions 90% of the time.
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@Judge1322 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1375246#Comment_1375246
Alright lemme stop you right there buddy, anyone that thinks ds is broken is stupid, they nerfed it to hell since you know it can only be used once a game.
If you look at a broken perk go look at devour hope, sure its a hex perk but those can be easily camped or managed with thrill of the hunt and with smaller maps and reduced pallets the game already went to #########.
There is at no point in time where ds has ever been usable multiple times on same survivor and your comment suggests that you wish that the perk could be activated multiple times, how many times do you exactly want to trigger it? 2-3? maybe 10 times per match? Apart from when DS came out 3 years ago where you could automatically escape the killer grasp with no restriction, DS is probably in the strongest form it has ever been. it certainly is the most punishing it has ever been. Original DS used to be 4 second stun and Enduring used to work against it. Awhile back, the stun was increased to 5 seconds and now enduring does not work against it. furthermore, the perk in some sense is more powerful than old one because old one required teammate to block the hook for it to work on non-obsession and the killer could avoid obsession. It also makes unbreakable as a perk extremely reliable and in my experience, most killers respect that you have the perk even if you don't equip it. So I don't exactly see what exactly is nerfed about the perk. In the context of previous post, If killer plays in an extremely lame way which is proxy camp a hook and than down where no tileset exists, than DS kinda deserves to activate because that situation doesn't have good counter-play for the survivor. Current DS feels more like anti-momentum because if you hook people too quickly, you'll get ds randomly. Imagine having a perk for killer that if 4 generator are completed in less 2 minutes, undo 2 generators because the survivors are playing too well. DS should just deactivate when another person is hooked to avoid punishing the killer for doing well. other than that the perk is fine.
Devour hope is like ultra-high risk, medium reward perk. Half the time when I'm playing survivor, there's like 4 generator done before the perk even activates, so its like... there was devour hope in the match? Not to mention that lit totems glows extremely bright, you can hear it if your next to one(it sounds like fire) and most of the time, these totems get disabled before their effect even activates because totem placements in this game are terrible. They're so bad that haunted ground is probably more reliable perk than devour hope is. The only way I can ever see totem perks be good is if every totem in the game either started as dull or if there was a perk that shielded your totem perk and I guess that perk was suppose to be Hex:Retribution but it doesn't exactly do that. Totems perks might as well just be rolling a slot machine that rarely ever helps the killer when they need it to work. Camping totems is like camping hooks, It doesn't help you progress your objective to win or get tickets on the perk. In the end, Totems are just gimmick perks.
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@BigBrainMegMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1374626#Comment_1374626
DS never affected me. I'm a killer main and I've never had an issue with it.
Only bad killers complain about DS.
I mean only reason to ask for such a change or to believe that current DS is fine is because you use DS every game and probably abuse it to the max. DS was invented disincentive the killer from proxy camping hooks and relying on 1 shot players out of position. This is precisely why your allowed to jump into lockers to avoid tunneling and reposition yourself to better loops. These cages teleport you on the other side of the map and if a player saves you from cage instantly and pyramid decides to chase you, your just getting chased at that point and the killer is rightfully doing his best to win the match. I kinda wish this hooking mechanic was base line for every killer and that these silly band aid meta perks such as BT and DS weren't a thing.
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@MrPenguin said:
Thanks for the hard work you put into this, really appreciate it!
"Why does Trail of Torment reveal the generator’s aura? (from @Orion)
If this aura weren’t present, the survivors wouldn’t know that anything was happening."
Isn't that the point of a stealth perk? Ok then, guess that's going in the bucket.
Its just like clown response, "You don't know the hidden powers of this perk, your just bad at stealth". Hopefully they improve the perk in a year or so into something a bit more functional.
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@SloppyKnockout said:
I won't disagree. Let's not forget, the same person who said "Clown is underrated and people (with thousands of hours in the game and actual experience) haven't found his power" is also the person who thought it was a good idea to intentionally make it so stunning a killer with a pallet when they were picking up a survivor didn't require timing back in the day.
He's not fit for his job, really. Just a string of bad decisions.
Balance isn't easy. A lot of balance is done through trial and error. I think clown 1vs1 is underrated, but he as killer is not underrated. he doesn't have mobility, he has no global pressure on the map when chasing a survivor (such as pig head traps) and he has no real stealth potential or heighten mindgame potential, you always know where he is at all times. They really need his reload bug, Billy bugs and sound bugs.
I think Trail of Torment answer in Q&A stream was dumbest answer I've heard in long time. When ghostface activates his power and your terror radius, Using your own game sense, you can induce that Ghostface activated his power. Highlighting a yellow generator is hand holding the survivor hand. Just for reference, Pig's meta build rank 1 is Monitor+Whispers and part of the reason for that is to be able to look at bottom icon for when whisper activate and than to use Monitor to lower your base TR to optimize your crouching. You don't need Trail of Torment on Pig. Survivors should need to learn how to pan their camera and pay attention to their surroundings to avoid stealth. The current version of Trail of Torment isn't usable on any killer until that yellow generator part is gone. If there is a killer that can use the perk, It might be Leatherface with his 1 shot but anyone can see it coming right now. Sometimes, you just wonder what Ethan was thinking when he designed this perk. Deathbound has similar problem because many survivors usually heal when they're next generator, so this oblivious effect will not activates if the survivor knows where to heal.
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@HamdaN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1367689#Comment_1367689
deathslingers power is absolutely unskillful wym..??? the instant quick scope with a projectile that fast leaves literally no possible reaction time for counterplay. it also goes through holes in walls which is straight bogus. i think YOURE the one who hasnt vs’d them at all
Deathslinger is not about reacting when he is going to shoot, it is about predicting when he is going to shoot. Most deathslinger shoot when your are pushing along side a solid object or restricted area because it makes it easier to line up shots. your comment suggests that Huntress has no counter-play when she has fully charged hatchet and your within >5 meters when that clearly isn't true. Many huntress miss in plain sight. Even player who completely devote their lives to play hardcore FPS games such as CS-GO/Overwatch/COD do not have 100% accuracy because it is physically impossible to do that without an aimbot. In many ways, Deathslinger is kinda like weak version of Spirit in the sense that his gun is a Mindgame. I think that might be why I enjoy playing against Deathslinger because I like playing against killers that have build-in mind games in their kit. It feels more satisfying to win knowing that you've outsmart your opponent. It's just a bit sad that variables when it comes to generator times and game-time aren't in his favor, so most of the time, he loses by just being Deathslinger and I rarely face him to begin with.
The centralized theme behind recent killers has been about taking away agency of survivor in being able to loop killers indefinately on extremely powerful tilesets present in virtually every map. Survivor in general has had far too much agency in being able to decide the entire outcome of a loop and therefore, entire outcome of the match. In the case of Demogorgon,Deathslinger and Pyramid head, These killers create a lot of 50/50 situations where the killer can land unexpected hits for where they wouldn't be able to get hits otherwise. Freddy snares disable the ability re-loop the same tileset, however you are not expected to be dream world at the start of a chase and the timer acts as time-limit for allowing the killer to close out and seal the deal in ending a chase similar to how bloodlust does this. Even then, depending on how many loops are close together, there is still room to avoid getting snared by freddy. I would say even though many killers have more agency to outplay the survivor compare to before, it is still relatively easy to win. I have heard that some survivor groups have like 100 escapes in a row. Escaping and Piping as survivor is still as easy as it has always been. Playing killer is still mostly dice roll for whether you face good survivor or really easy ones.
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@Almo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1356509#Comment_1356509
When I look at the average number of kills for Legion, it's right in the middle. They're not the best, they're not the worst. This is across all maps, all ranks. That's as much detail as I can go into on this.
I don't think the post is related to how good or how bad legion is. I think it is related to legion not feeling rewarding enough when he successfully lands a good feral frenzy on entire team. For example, when you play Huntress, when you hit all your hatchets, it just feels really good. With legion, It feels like you do a lot of work as legion when you play him, but your reward at the end of the day is 4 second stun that is almost as long as Decisive strike. I might be interpreting the post incorrectly, but I think the reason why people rate legion as terrible killer is because he feels bad to play, not that he can't produce results.
I feel like he reminds me of old freddy in the sense that old freddy had some good elements about him but he didn't feel quite right. New legion is similar problem. He doesn't strike the correct notes. From survivor POV, his power is not interactive. From the killer POV, He doesn't feel rewarding in a sense that the player does not feel very accomplished when being successful with his power. Legion lacks good elements of strategy as a killer and good elements of counter-play/interactivity for the survivor. I think the idea behind making a killer that punishes grouping is really cool concept for DBD but it isn't properly expressed/imagined. perhaps Old freddy was a better imagination of a killer that punishes grouping up by putting multiple people into dream world and than plays a cool wallhack/stealth game with survivors, but that is perhaps forgone concept.
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@ill_Boston_lli said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1362296#Comment_1362296
if it counts as being hooked pop bbq ds and bt should all proc as well. how can you have one and not any others?? its common sense. its stupid to have one thing work but not anything else. Survivors are deprived of protection out of the cage and the killers is deprived bps and gens control but he can mori you out of the cage its just silly.
I am not dev, I didn't design the killer but If i had to make a guess, It is probably balance reasons. Imagine your perks are BBQ, MYC,Devour hope and pop. If these perk work with his cage power, he could slug 2 people who are tormented, send 1 to cage for instant BBQ proc(based off his location), manually hook 2nd survivor, suppose the survivor saved caged person, MYC procs, you walk to the cage, knock the MYC survivor, hook that survivor, in all that time, you went from 0 tokens of devour hope to 3 and in this time, you were able to kick 3 generator for 75% regression. It would be pretty nutty snowball. I'd have to admit, it would be very interesting ultra-rare add-on. If anything, Pyramid head gives you glimpse of what every killer would play like if perks like BT and DS did not exist as perks. Just be happy you have those perks as survivor vs other killers.
A small word of advice, I don't actually respect DS as a perk if the killer I'm playing is very strong in 1vs1. Like if your playing spirit, If your really confident in the chase, you'll eat instant heal and be almost certain that you'll be able to down the survivor anyway. DS only hurts killers who are weak at the chase and need to respect certain alignments of tilesets. Like if your playing Myers and the map is Ormond, you need respect the fact that taking a DS can lead to Safe pallet>Jungle gym->Safe pallet->Jungle gym->Shack and that could be game losing chase. You just don't got outplay tool as Myers to contest these ultra-safe tiles. Just my 2 cents.
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@ill_Boston_lli said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1362251#Comment_1362251
you do realize "sacrifice" and "kill" are two different things right????
I think you need to take your own advice buddy. 😂
Let's put two tooltip together. In Pyramid power, the cage of Atonement counts as being hooked. Ebony mori states you need to be hooked first before the killer can mori you. It works as intended. Is it balanced? Nope. Its not like this offering was ever fair to begin with. Pyramid head is like perfect catalyst for making toxic killer video.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1362219#Comment_1362219
"Cages count as being hooked"
No they don't. If they did than anything that procs "on hook" would work. But they don't.
Cages consume a hook state, they are not a hook state.
"Survivors in a Cage of Atonement can be Sacrificed as If they were on a hook". I think you should consider reading tooltips before posting.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1362091#Comment_1362091
"it's petty, vindictive and obnoxious"
Seriously? I want the cages to be CONSISTENT. Please explain how asking for consistency is any of these things.
It does have something to do with offerings when the offering specifically says "a survivor who is hooked". Literally the only reason you would defend this is because you intend to abuse it.
This might be a bit of speculation but all previous mori have always worked after your first hook state and Pyramid head Mori only works on 2nd hook state. Pyramid as killer gives great signalization that eventually, Ebony Mori and Ivory mori will only work on 2nd hook state. I can imagine them weakening keys such that hatch only appears when all 5 generator are completed instead of that strange rule "When he number of fully repaired generator exceeds the number of living survivor".
Cages count as being hooked, but being cage unhooked does not count as being unhooked from a regular hook. Ebony mori description was written before pyramid head was a killer so the wording is very ambiguous now. The only perk that is does not function properly with current cage system is Adrenaline. If you read Adrenaline fully, It says specifically that if you are disabled when this perk activates, the effect is put on hold and being cage should count as being disabled and once you are freed, Adrenaline should activate but I don't think it does.
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@caz_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1340440#Comment_1340440
tell me what perk i crossed are you using?
are these perks usefull against rank1's? are these perks helping to survive? to waste time of the killer? do they help against Godlike playing killers? do they help against a Nurse, Spirit or huntress? or are they meme builds?
im not talking about meme builds you can use in a SWF im talking about useful perks to survive to waste time to have fun. and if needed to carry the potatos in your team. can you carry your team with vigil? plunderers, ace in the hole? perks what increases gen speed are useless (gens are already quick) do the crossed perks help against Camping or Tunneling? or even against slugging? if i meme around yes i can also run the crossed perks. but if i wanna successful these perks wont help.
I agree with your opinion regarding perks. majority of the perks are lackluster for both sides and I feel like a lot of the meme perks in DBD are worse than they really have to be. I feel like players fail to realize that the majority of perks used for the intention of getting free hits/second chances on both sides. This can be very direct or indirect.For example, Iron will and Quick&Quiet are juke perks. Their objective is to juke killers and confuse killers for which direction you went. By juking the killer, you can often waste more time than even exhaust perks. Some perks are more direct than others, for example Dead hard is very clear cut second chance perk. Dead hard for distance has been used for very long time in the games lifespan and it is still used a lot to this day.
Killers also have free hit perks. Not every free hit perk will always activate, just like not every survivor perk is always game winning and when it comes to killer, there is a lot variations of this. For example, Enduring spirit fury is probably clear cut version of dead hard for killer. It gives you free hits. Perks like Monitor hope that survivor doesn't pay attention to the TR and it can give you free hits in some situations. you can look perks like Hex:Ruin and Pop goes weasel are very commonly used generator regression perks and part of the reason is because generator slowdown perks give second chances to killers if they have a bad chase and they allow killer to extend the game for more potential future hits.
Perks in DBD are zero sum game. You win some, you lose some. The perks for both sides are intentional meant to cancel each others advantages. Their major objective is to add spice to the game. they can help to customize a fantasy in a game and sometimes they create the fantasy. Many fantasy are often competitive, but sometimes, they are just for fun. It is important that both sides are able to have fun in the game.
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This is video is 100% clickbait. all this video proves is that early game is not important for killer and most of your killer matches are won by having strong mid-game. Toolboxs and co-op generator never had any problems. Its more when you face the... more advanced teams that have good split gen pressure with non-potato looping, mix that with low tier killer and you've got yourself an uphill battle.
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@ViolentSh4de said:
https://gfycat.com/mindlessdefiniteastarte
It takes too long to break a hook now, before it only took 0.5 seconds, now it takes 2.5 seconds. Prepping gave you the ability to deny the killer from camping, and forced them to give up pressure when played well
sabo baits are also dead as sabotage goes into cooldown even if you cancel it, and you cant use no mither to force gens completion, and you cant set up hooks by exit gates to stop end game collapse hooks, and you cant stop 3 gens as hooks regen too fast, and breakout doesnt give you enough distance to break a hook before the killer stops you, and the pickup times give you no time to even break the hook before the killer finishes and hits you
Every sabo build and setup has been removed, and the perk is completely useless. Hooks regenerate in 30 seconds and the perk has a 60 second cooldown meaning you cant even pre break hooks to lure the killer far away from a 3 gen or camp spot, as they regenerate too fast and cooldown too long
I understand that Sabotage was archaic and needed to be dumbed down but it does absolutely nothing now.
Even worse is that you didn't need a toolbox before, even with a Alex's hacksaw cutting wire, Breakout doesnt give you enough distance to break the hook before the killer hits you. Pre breaking is useless because you can only sabo a couple hooks before the new toolboxes give out
Ive used sabo for 600+ hours, spent years developing new strategies to push sabo to its limit, and all that has been thrown away because of a update. Ive spent 3 months trying to make new sabo work and im at my breaking point, can someone please tell me how to make this ######### work?
i dont understand what the devs were thinking, theres no strategy or skill or pre planning involved to new sabo. It doesnt do anything can someone please explain the logic behind gutting this mechanic?
previously, what solo survivor did was they took a generator that was in the corner of the map, They'd 99 all the hooks around, than break all of them at once. At this point, you could work on generator and even if the killer came, you could just run in the corner of the map and he would be unable to hook you. Since your running unbreakable, the killer would have no real counter-play to the situation because his only option is to camp your body till hooks respawn or to leave the area where generator will inevitable be completed. It was lose-lose situation. if he camps, rest of team can freely complete every other generator on the map. Its just that nobody used sabotage actively in solo-queue because old toolboxs were so good at repairing generators that using it for sabotage was practically a waste.
Currently sabotage hooks only last 30 seconds and you need to use the hook offering that makes hook spawn further apart. If you try to sabotage a hook now, if the killer doesn't see another hook, they'll just drop survivor, hit sabotage player and by the time they return, the hook will respawn and they'll hook survivor anyway, so yeah they nerfed sabotage hard. you can use toolbox to make sabotage hooks faster and increase duration of destroyed hook to 45 seconds, but the perk itself is terrible. Sabotage for killer is like playing soccer where your opponent removes the goal net to score goals. I guess they thought it was unfun mechanic and they were afraid to make it omnipresent in every game.
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@johnwarner yeah, I am just using that perk as example. My major point that I was trying to illustrate is that all new perks are purposely made worse compared to original perks.I mean the last good perk that survivors use every game is Halloween DLC which is like 2 years old by now. Its hard to even classify what a good survivor perk is. As far I'm concerned, survivors will only ever use exhaustion perks, perks that grant endurance effect or perks that change your health state if they're competitive at the game. Basically perks that waste the killer's time. It is no surprise that many killers use corrupt intervention(previously hex:ruin) and pop to waste survivor's time. It is a bit hilarious but I guess that is just how the cookie crumbles.
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@Blueberry I would say that they treat both sides with equally bad perks. For example David king No mither perk contains 3 benefits separated by 3 other survivor perks. The first one is Jake Iron will, The second is bill Unbreakable and last one is Yui's Lucky break perk. Iron will and Unbreakable are very old survivor perks and they get used a decent amount. Yui's Lucky break perk is relatively new perk and it only survivor perk that for some reason has timer. The irony about it is that perk isn't even that good.
None of new killer perks have any potential to be used either because they have bad drawback or the effect isn't worth using. Ghostface has thrilling tremors which is BBQ with cooldown and Furtive chase... which has useless token system. Demo has surge which has cooldown, Mindbreaker which has bad values and cruel limits which is worthless. pyramid head and deathslinger perks are more of the same, more perks with heavy cooldown/conditions with mediocre effects that nobody is going to consider using.
In my opinion, the reason why they don't release usable perk is that whenever a perk looks like it has potential to be used, the other side instantly complains about that perk before it even gets released. Evidence can be shown by newest survivor perk Soul Guard. People are going to try to use it for 1 week, They'll realize that the perk activates one in 1/30 games and than they'll just go back to unbreakable because it is more consistent perk. since neither side is willing to let either side have any good perks without complaints., neither side will ever get good perks as a result.
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@Peanits said:
One add-on is not a cause to rework an entire character. But that aside, what do you have in mind for an alternative?
what about an add-on that makes you regain a hatchet every time you hit a survivor with it. In theory, If you never miss, you never need reload as huntress. That would be good example of iridescent hatchets that is decent add-on. Maybe her other iri add-on makes her move at 115%.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DosgigpAZSc@Jasonisanicefella said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1322494#Comment_1322494
Please provide evidence of some of your games where you are versing a competent red rank doctor and you are capable of doing so.
It is like a good doctor doesn't know you can pre-throw the pallet and counter it...
It is harder to find evidence to suggest a killer who can beat rank 1 teams. not complete potato's that run in middle of nowhere. I'm going give you a visual representation in words. Suppose hypothetically that you ran in a straight line from one side of fracture cowshed to another and whenever doctor would be in range to shock, He would shock you. What would happen is that the doctor would never make any distance because he would keep slowing himself down until you got to other end of the map and this would continue indefinitely.
So why does this matter? In loops, every time you turn a corner, the killer comes closer to you every time you don't drop a pallet when looping a filler pallet. This is true for every killer, but in the case of doctor, he does this as well but at slower rate. Logically, if you kept looping same side, eventually he would come close enough to you and he would hit you. The reason why this works is because when your looping, your not following a straight line and this goes into another myth where some people will tell you something along lines of killer having bigger models than survivors result in them moving slower around the loop. Obviously this isn't true but you might see some highlight compilation of a survivor looping a killer 20 times around a loop when in reality, the killer is like rank 20. In order to go in straight line so that you can loop doctor's shock therapy, you need to use both sides of the loop. Just illustrate my point, at 12:14 in Monto's video, Claudette runs to double truck loop and for some reason just stands there by the pallet. Claudette should have continue going forward and she should have kept looping either side of the truck loop. The goal is to bait the doctor into using shock therapy as many times as possible and than switch to the other side of the loop. Depending how tightly the survivor and the killer hug the corner of each loop, It will take 3-4 shocks before the doctor catch up. When you think he will catch up on the next loop, you want him to shock you and you will move to the other side of the loop and begin loop the other side of the truck. In theory, you could loop doctor indefinitely and never drop the pallet, however this technique works because both side of the loop are equally safe. Not every pallet in DBD is equally safe on both sides, so for some pallets, you will loop safe side and than be required to make a read to get to the pallet and hopefully stun the killer.
There is more to looping doctor than that. There are certain pallets where doctor will stand adjacent to the loop and you can make a read for whether to put pallet on his side or the other side of the loop at which point depending safety of the loop, you play the pallet or move to another tile if you win 50/50. There are other pallets very specific pallets also known as god pallets that appear on various maps like The game map below staircase, below bathroom, the shack and Lery library etc. These type of pallets when dropped need to be broken, however If the doctor thinks your rank 20 survivor, He might attempt to shock you and if he successfully shocks you, he can trap you on one side of the pallet and than hit you. Those are the shocks in which you need to dodge when camping those pallets.
This isn't guide to say that you will always escape doctor or never take a hit. There have been conversation in the past regarding whether survivor should be able to indefinitely 1vs1 a killer such as Spirit but that is entirely different topic. This is guide how to waste the killer's time and do as much damage in a chase against Doc. Monto is the type of the guy who will use iri head+infantry huntress and lose with it than say in the video that huntress requires no aiming skill and just shoots whales at you. It is just a lot of non-sense. As for the add-on, doctor does not need discipline add-on to time his shock therapy, Discipline add-on is mostly used for the ability to remove the doctor red-stain. The detonation delay just makes you shock little later rather than sooner and it makes it a tiny bit harder to juke shock on some situations for survivor. as a side note, it indirectly increases his shock therapy cooldown recovery which becomes very noticeable if both are add-on are stacked. you will feel "paused" for longer. The range add-on is useful for stop instant drop pallet drops from very far away to begin clock-wise shock therapy explained in paragraph 2 and it was good answer to some of god-windows present on old Ironwork of misery loop. Apart from Myer's house god-window in Haddonfield and couple of other places, this add-on does not play a big part in doctor's ability to shock therapy most loops. I know this post looks like a large wall of text but It is a lot of information to write out on paper to answer your question. This does not cover every single possible situation, It just covers some of the basics.
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@DwightOP said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1313534#Comment_1313534
Crosshair is a thing. Makes it easy af
you mean using cheats outside the game? Deathslinger already comes with Crosshair on ADS. part of the skill of playing skillshot oriented killers is being able to visualize an invisible arbitrary crosshair on your screen. Players who sink a lot of hours into Huntress will tell you that. At least it isn't as bad survivors using Stretched Resolution to break a lot of viewpoints and loops so that they're even less mindgames than they already are. I don't sincerely see the strength in Deathslinger, half the time I play against one, I don't even get chased, the game is over by the time that happens. Maybe I'd understand his 110% if he was very lethal but right now it is just weird. I'm glad that Pyramid head might redeem Deathslinger a little bit.