DerpyPlayz
DerpyPlayz
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@REL1_C said:
Like I say, the developers are walking on thin ice with this "Rework". Just keep in mind, if the nerf isn't to you killer mains liking, just remember the survivors are majority. That sounded so entitled 😂, my point is the developers have to think of a change which will make the majority happy so there game wont fall apart even more than it already has. All I'm saying is don't expect the nerf to be something huge, I mean come on, Imagine if the developers nerfed keys like mori's, I know that would be balanced but that would hurt the game more than the community, how am I wrong.
The game already has a deficit of killers, so your argument is still objectively incorrect, if they keep doing this there is going to be less killers then what there already is, less killers means less games for you to play (survivors), which means more wait times, which means less survivors, which means more wait times, ect.
I am 100% convinced that if they keep doing this stuff it will bite them in the butt one day, if 10 years down the road you see a Death Of A Game Video its likely because they kept taking insane advice like what you just said.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2084627#Comment_2084627
Doctor has range add ons which are nice but not necessary. Otherwise he doesn’t really need them
The only nerf billy needed was to his add ons. Things like tuning guide and primer bulb were way too strong
I actually forgot about those addons for Billy, I agree actually.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2084572#Comment_2084572
Doctor is still great at antiloop but you have to have good timing. His madness T3 can also be used for stopping gens at opportune times
If you want a good idea of how to use the antidote @TheClownIsKing made a great guide
Billy did need a slight nerf but I agree they went overboard on him
No, if they surv understands the doctor then no, I am talking about base doctor and haven't used addons however so maybe he is a killer that needs addons (which is dumb imo)
Noted, I will look at that actually.
Why would you think billy needed a nerf, and how would you even nerf him?
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@Laurie268 said:
The only nerf I would give to keys is making them more rare than they are now.
Thats silly then.
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@Kebek said:
They probably can't figure out that the best change to keys is also the most simple one = changing the hatch spawning rules to appear at 5 gens completed or when there's only 1 survivor alive. No need to actually change keys at all while fixing all the major issues with them.
They fix mories in a very simple way but can't do the same for keys because reasons.
I would honestly not be surprised if one of the devs actually plays the game, and dislikes moris as the person is a surv main, OR if 100000 survivors were complaining about moris, so they finally were like "Ok fine, here's more favoritism".
Only logical conclusions I can see.
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@Retromind said:
As a killer I glance over the survivors. If I see one with a key I take Franklin's, if I feel like a douche today, I will make sure the survivor with a key dies first. I know this doesn't help if the survivor with a key is in a party with his friend on coms, because he can counter Franklin's by dropping a key for his buddy to keep, but at least I am in peace knowing I have punished someone who is abusing an archaic game mechanic that shouldn't be in the game in the first place. However, if I am playing as a survivor, I will take a key during the night sessions more often, mainly because I feel like I am getting matched with green/yellow ranks more and my chances of escaping are reduced from the beginning even before the game even starts. And EVEN THEN I will not use the key immediately as soon as the hatch spawns, I will do my best to make sure I repair gens as efficiently as possible and save the survivors risking my own safety. I will grab my dropped key from behind the tree only when I see the chases last for 10 seconds, no gens are done and Claudettes are camping in the bushes doing nothing. Oh yeah baby, I will escape through that hatch leaving you to rot in that bush, you better believe me.
Well is that not BH's bandage to anything? Perks? Instead of directly increasing gen times by a little, they add ruin.
Instead of dealing with OP addons for items, they add Franklins, ect.
Either you are sacrificing your perk slot for a perk that might not even come into play, and if it does likely doesn't hold any weight on the game, or you are maybe stopping a surv from using a key. In both of these outcomes however, you had to put special effort in, and get lucky for this to even work out, which shouldn't be ok. It seems you realize this however.
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@NoOneKnowsNova said:
Scrapping or disabling them would be impossible as there are both archive challenges and achievements related to them. While the former is mostly fine, the latter isn't as Steam, Microsoft and Sony aren't too fond of achievements having to be changed and I doubt the devs would want to make one of them impossible.
Regarding the moris being changed before keys, it's because moris are much easier to change. The only values related to them are amount of hooks and the amount of people that die to them. Keys on the other hand, are a lot harder to balance due to them having a lot more variables.
So I have been told, but this is just excuses.
If they really wanted to they can just temp remove them, and add them back later and not have challenges for these, in fact I can not remember any challenges in which requirements are mori/keys (not to say they're aren't) but this as well doesn't justify the premise as they're can't be that many challenges with Mori/Key in name, and challenges are not as important as game balance.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Moris were substantially more game breaking and their change was likely very simple to implement. It makes sense that change happened first.
I actually disagree completely, moris ending games quicker, keys end games outright.
Even if I give you that point however that doesn't justify the premise, very much so when the clear solution is to remove both so either party doesn't hold major advantage.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2084507#Comment_2084507
Doctor? Bubba? Clown?
Billy was a bit heavy handed but he is still great
Doctor is still a terrible killer, he can only stop certain loops if the surviviors know how to loop around most things while playing vs him, and all his kit is used for is info.
Bubba is actually the only one who got a real rework, he is good but the issue is windows totally counter his ability making it totally useless which wouldn't be a issue if pallets didn't become major mindgames in which you have to guess if the survivors is going to keep running or drop the pallet and in the case they drop the pallet you likely get knocked on the head and cancel your ability, unless they threw it early then you can instantly break it saving time, however you are forced to walk into pallets basically because if you stop in your ability and they instead of throwing pallet they keep running you likely are to go into tantrum effectively making you waste too much time. it boils down to if the survivor is bad at the game, easy 4ks, if they are decent however and understand his weaknesses, you now have a 1/3 chance guess to guess the correct play the survivor makes and if you guess wrong you waste more time in chase.
Clown's rework is unusual to say the least, they really only changed his addons, his ability works pretty much the same with slight improvement, and he has all of the major old issues he had before, like long loops only now with a tonic that I am not even sure what to do with and therefore only see its use 5% of the time when going across the map as it makes anyone who goes into it faster and has a delay.
Billy was not a rework, it was just a nerf in sheeps clothing, all it really did was remove certain good addon(s), useless addons, and give him a dumb mechanic that makes him unviable unless you are amazing at billy naturally and can hit every chainsaw even if they are hard to hit within a time window, otherwise your gauge fills up and you can't use your ability. They should of never touched him, he was a high skill killer, that had plenty of counter play, and now for most people don't play him because that mechanic is stupid and bubba now does better,
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@HectorBrando said:
You just keep making extremely Killer-biased threads, Ive lost counter. Are you sure the game is extremely unbalanced or are you overestimating your skill? You may not be as good as you think you are.
Survivors are not bots, they are players like you and players can outplay other players, if you are getting demolished either you instrospect and look at what you are doing wrong and what went wrong or stay the same and keep getting stomped because you refuse to learn from your mistakes or go play Solo Survivor and enjoy the overpowerness yourself...
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2084469#Comment_2084469
I like this post, I like it a lot.
I dont think I could have written it better.
100% this game is balanced towards surviviors without a doubt.
Surviviors control the flow of the game, they decide how long it will last, what map will be selected (majority rule, 1 killer v 4 survs), in modern day if they want to bring on a op addon that never got touched for them (keys) and if you are going vs a swf bully squad that is good you might as well actually just leave the game because the gens are going to be popped so fast that by the time you find someone yet alone hit them one gen pops and another gen is going to be completed soon, the list goes on.
The fact bully swf squads are a thing is a testament to poor balance, otherwise these things would not exist.
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@Phasmamain said:
You’re joking right?
Killers are getting constant buffs. Great reworks for struggling killers, Great new perks and some very solid new killers. On,y real issue is matchmaking but MMR is their priority at the moment
Solo survivors are really the ones treated like garbage
XD Great reworks?? XD
Whew, I laughed so hard.
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@WishIcouldmain said:
Yeah personally I'd be fine with it staying the same I'm usually not seeing it much or when I do see it I cleanse it quick or it makes no difference. But, what do you think?
This is one of the few perks that is so bad yet so annoying I would be fine with it removed.
It doesn't help killers until 1/6 of the total match (If we assume every generator is 1/6 a match, and exiting is 1/6) meaning its only being used at the end of the game. Finally when this inactive perk is active during this brief time, its totally hit or miss as its dependent on the situation you are in during End game making it not really viable.
For survivors however, while it can be really easy to not get hit due to their broken base survivor set, and can be disabled and destroyed before all totems are completed, it can be really annoying to be doing well the entire game and then have NOED instantly down you, or lose you a game because everyone started to play like headless chickens.
All in all, much more survivor perks need to be looked at before we look at Killers perks as the base survivor is already op as it is.
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@sulaiman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1803984#Comment_1803984
I dont think keys are as op as moris were. A mori changed the outcome of the game early on, by tunneling out a survivor far too early, making a 4v1 based game into a 3v1 game.
Keys usually dont change the outcome in my opinion. For 4 people to escape, you still need all gens done. For one to escape, its still a win for the killer. How often do more than 1 survivor escape with a key? It might be more in swf, but for solo survivors, a lot of them just leave the rest behind.
The problem with keys is not that its op, its that killer feel cheated if the last survivor escapes instead of being at their mercy. Funny thing is, that most killers feel they deserved that kill even if they would have gotten it due to a dc or hook suicide in the first place.
I play only solo survivor, but when the key change comes, i will most likly switch to swf. In solo, a key (or finding one in a chest with plunderers) gives you a fighting chance if the game has one leaving his team behind. If thats no longer an option, you need more reliably teams.
Keys objectively were more broken then Moris.
Moris changed the game significantly to the point where the killer was winning, however the survivors could still just play well and counter the Mori with some counterplay on their part.
Keys instantly ended the game, allowed all living survivors to escape, winning instantly, and once used there is nothing a killer can even hope to do to counter play it except hope they open hatch near him before they all leave.
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@Mandy said:
I've seen this on a couple of threads now: What's the one thing you wish you had known when you were a new player - that one tip that would help you immensely in game?
For me, when playing killer, I wish I had known that the survivors could see your red stain (it took me a while to figure this out).
How terrible managed the Devs are with the game, and how terrible managed the Mods are with the community by far. There is universal infamy between the two.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1804651#Comment_1804651
I am well aware. I appreciate you clarifying that for everyone else. My view (as I suggested a very different way of fixing the Mori) is that if/when people run the Mori that it will lead to camping and tunneling on an unprecedented scale. Why? I just have to have people hit struggle bus and I can Mori them off the hook. Is this a good long term tactic? No. Will it happen? Yes. It will happen a LOT.
At low ranks yes, not with a team of survs who understand the game however.
If the killer has a Mori your goal is to gen rush and pop of the gens before he can hook enough people to kill them.
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@Mandy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1803974#Comment_1803974
Keys account for approximately 2% of escapes only and have a lot of conditions met before more than one survivor can escape with a key due to the hatch conditions - a good portion of the game has to be completed before the hatch even spawns. That was completely different to mori's which were one hook and then mori'd.
Assuming that is true and not just PR that doesn't make anything better at all.
If you are going to change a core mechanic of your game, why would you only change it to affect one side in particular? Why not just wait off so the complicated "key change" would happen with the mori rework like everything else.
Regardless of that two percent, that can be still quite large considering people who are SWF likely make up the majority of escapes with key and why they are a huge issue as even a game a killer outperforms in a major headache of a game, the survivor still are not punished as they can just use a key and if they are a Bully SWF you better believe it is common for them to abuse any and all mechanics to make it a hassle for killers including bringing a key.
Another thing is, why do you have to rework either or to release them? Clearly most everyone is not happy with Mori's nor Keys, few people would complain if you just disabled both of them completely until the rework for BOTH of the items came out and it would be SIGNIFICANTLY more fair to do that. Again, these are the strongest items in the game that except for OoO, are absolutely game breaking and offer an advantage so grave that it can shape the game by itself. Why would someone, no, how could someone think that it is a good idea to totally remove this dynamic from one team and allow the other one to have this under the guise of "its just too complicated" and statistics that can misrepresent the situation. Are we really going back to a OOO is not broken argument 2.0 because the stats say X?
This is like removing the AWP in CSGO for one team, and allowing the other team to use it. Its silly.
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@Kind_Lemon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1710517#Comment_1710517
I love sharing this video, and I'm so glad you gave me a chance to do so, even though it seems like you've seen it already.
Yhea thats what I was talking about. XD
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@jrinkwater said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1860181#Comment_1860181
Then it is powerful. Because this game shouldn't be built around the "steady team" mechanics it's becoming to satisfy some odd desires for survivor-fandom. Now, I love playing survivor a lot but even I got to admit, I intentionally do NOT run meta perks because of how pathetic of a player you have to be to coordinate these perks to erase mistake after mistake.
The game shouldn't even NEED to have killers scrambling for perks to increase gen time exclusively over any perks in the first place, this was just another bandage patch perk to ignore the actual issues being gen times.
Your second argument is just as fallacious, "meta" perks are in the game for a reason. Who cares about your opinions on using them or not, the fact remains they are going to be used by both sides. The major issue is Survivors already have better base kits.
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@Flawless_ said:
We all knew that combo was busted and I for one I'm extremely glad people will actually have to use some degree of skill in order to get wins rather than just pick a high mobility killer and get hooks while being on crutches the entire game. I play mostly killer at high ranks and while I do use Undying I refuse to run it along Ruin because it makes the game extremely easy and it basically turns survivors into potatoes. Not to mention some people seem to run the same build for literally every killer (Go check out a certain British guy stream if you don't believe me). Good riddance.
Lmao your ignorance of the game mechanics is exactly why there is so few killers, they need to fix survivors first then worry about Killers.
There are few things you can even complain about logically about killers, with this being one of them. Survivors however have nearly every mechanic bias toward them.
Survivors can turn tighter corners, gen times are low enough typically during or before first chase a genorator pops, decent survivors in a swf make every killer but nurse a joke, there is no counter play with decisive nor dead hard, most maps still have insanely long loops, survivors have "clutch" perks giving them many lives, ect.
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@Alexmon70 said:
For some time now, the simple IDEA of even touching nurse, scared me. As much as I like challenges, even I know when something is too much for me. Maybe I'm just bad (insert Yes you are comment here)
That was 300 hours ago and a few chapters ago. Here we are, present day, I'm taking steps to learning Nurse. Currently on day 5 and I'm doing really well.
Now for the reason.
Survivors aren't scared (in the sense that, they will lose if they do not do something, not BOO scared)
Killers don't properly have that factor unless it's a really good player that knows how to snowball. Survivors hardly get as stressed as a killer.
Survivors don't have any sort of fear/worry. That's why my goal is to terrorize survivors with nurse. But hell, maybe that won't do anything.
Just saying now though
I'm coming for ya
Yhea the community reps what it sows. When the devs make issues and then we complain, it seems like the majority just forgets it ever happens and let them slide.
I think I sorta am giving up on the devs and game as a whole as its clear to me they won't ever fix these issues.
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@gatsby said:
I don’t understand why generator speed is only balanced by regression perks. If the base gen repair speed was slower and all the regression perks got nerfed, I feel like that would be healthier for the game.
A more diverse set of Killers could be viable, a more diverse set of perks could be played and Killers could afford to commit to long chases instead of constantly having to leave Survivors in strong positions to defend gens.
Right now, the default Killer build for 90% of the roster is Ruin/Undying/BBQ. So here’s one real perk slot that you have any choice in if you want to win against the best Survivors. I feel like the game could be balanced better than that.
Yhea, this is why newer players leave and why there are few killers. These aren't issues unknown about by us or even the devs.
They allow this to be the case because of greed put simply.
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@crazygirl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1701068#Comment_1701068
Yeah and you bore us... Who the hell are you, the voice of reason lol. Sorry for replying but I been reading this whole discussion and seeing your posts and replies pop up and you need to get a grip and calm down.
Sounds like a personal issue, block me. (assuming thats possible)
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/198047/stop-coddling-killers
Wow. You must be the unluckiest person in the world. I just went four days and in that time I saw two Mori (one Ebony and one Green). Funny how our experiences can be that different. I mean, statistically you should buy a Lotto ticket. I think you have a heck of a lot of good luck built up based on that record of pulling Killers with a Mori.
If only luck existed and our world was not based on probability.
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@Culby said:
Currently no stacks are awarded for a safe cage rescus. Any chance to get these event added as a stack?
No, and there should not be.
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@Seiko300 said:
Anybody who has discussed and debated this topic for long enough knows that what people are asking for is a rework, not an outright nerf. DS should protect survivors who are actually being tunneled, but it should not provide an ounce of protection for survivors who don't need it and / or survivors who seek to abuse that protection. Ergo:
If you are healed to full health / uninjured state you don't need Decisive Strike.
If you feel safe enough to unhook someone else you don't need Decisive Strike.
If you feel safe enough to repair generators you don't need Decisive Strike.
If you feel safe enough to cleanse a (hex) totem you don't need Decisive Strike.
If you feel safe enough to open an exit gate you don't need Decisive Strike.
And if you have the audacity to think that because you jumped into a red box right in the killer's face you deserve 100% invincibility you DEFINITELY don't need Decisive Strike.
In exchange:
DS timer is extended by 15 or 30 seconds.
DS timer pauses when you are in chase.
DS skillcheck difficulty is reduced.
(NOTE - For obvious reasons this list is clearly subject to change to expand or contract in any way, shape, form, or fashion)This is a more than fair enough trade / way of balancing the perk, in all honesty DS doesn't even really deserve the good things I mentioned it'd still be a great perk without all that stuff.
This new version of the perk however, introduces more dynamic decision making skills for the survivor that uses it, it gives you more than enough time to get away and recover from being hooked, but as soon as you do anything progress the game forward the perk deactivates. Leading to thoughts like "is it worth it to repair this generator now or let it regress so I can be healed and do it later?" or "will I have time to open the exit gate or should I hide instead?" "is it safe to go for the unhook or will we both be downed right away?". Encouraging survivors to more meticulously and carefully plan their moves and actions rather than expect to be given everything for free (free gen. repairs, free unhooks, cleanse hex: totems, free exit gate escapes, etc.) and get away with it just because "60 seconds hasn't expired yet!". Which is obviously dumb, yet still that's how many players act with the current version because it enables these stupidly broken plays where survivors literally can't be punished for a very lengthy extended period of time.
I agree with everything but the "In exchange", with what you proposed people will just find new ways to abuse it.
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Should make it deactive when proving you no longer are near killer such as doing a generator, and should make it not work in lockers.
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@Inji said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1712326#Comment_1712326
I mean sure. This was just my build that I like to use on Legion based on the question in the title. Just for fun. Thought maybe it will benefit others with a similar playstyle like mine.
Right, there was a implicated question, why?
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@Inji said:
I use "Bloodhound, KnockOut, Nurses Calling(or I'm all ears), Deathbound (or BBQ)" build at times and here is why:
- Bloodhound: For the sheer reason that most of the time people stay injured and with the blood being bright I can basically find them fairly easily if they are trying to hide from me.
- KnockOut: Having people on the floor will give some time for me to check nearby generators and to injure/down or chase survivors if the right opportunity is there. People will start looking for the downed person at some point so after dealing with whatever it is that I decided to do when I downed that person. Go back to the knocked out person to maybe find more people there to injured and/or down. Knockout could snowball you into some kills if done right.
- Nurses Calling: So I can see people heal if they heal. Which has a good synergy with Bloodhound. Heal and Ill see you, Dont heal and Ill see your blood.(or Im all ears if you want more auras during a chase)
- Deathbound: Deathbound if you want more focus on the healing part where people cant hear you coming. (or BBQ if you are looking for more aura and bloodpoints.)
Playing around with this build can be quite fun and see what you prefer. It could be that this build doesnt fit your playstyle and other builds might be more appropriate.
Interesting in idea, bad on paper.
Bloodhound is a wasted perk slot, because survivors are well enough easy to find, and if they understand how to hide their trails correctly, chances are you would not want to chase that survivor with a low rank killer such as Legion in the first place. Not to mention if someone really is having that much trouble finding survivors, BBQ would be much better.
Nurses Calling is much better then I'm All Ears with Legion as NC has no cooldown and within your terror radius of which is tied to your power.
Deathbound is just a meh perk all the round, so this is a wasted perk slot as well, it does not even have synergy with the perks you have mentioned, as if someone is broken you nullify NC being able to be used.
Knockout on Legion is likely the worse rec I have ever heard, Legion is not a killer that is good with slugging.
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@ChurchofPig said:
I run Thanatophobia, Distressing, A Nurse's Calling, and Infectious Fright.
Reasons:
- Thanatophobia: Even though it was nerfed, it's still very effective on Legion. Survivors will try to take advantage of no healing penalty and heal to get rid of the slow down which in turn still slows the game down a lot.
- Distressing: I've learned over time that the Killer's Instinct is based off of your terror radius, so just like with Doctor, Legion benefits from having Distressing. It also helps with Infectious Fright.
- A Nurse's Calling: Helps with Thanatophobia and to just track down healing survivors in general.
- Infectious Fright: Whenever I play Legion there seems to be a lot of altruistic people and flashlights. I use Infectious to figure out who's around especially if someone is under a pallet. Distressing also helps increase the range of Infectious Fright so that helps.
You can imagine I'm a very unloved Legion lol
Yhea something like this, minus distressing.
Although when and why did Thana get nerfed? :(
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@God_Prof said:
May be DbD will be a tossing coin game, and will be a perfect statistically balanced 50% kill rate game.
*Eyes at you eerily*
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@Kind_Lemon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1708015#Comment_1708015
haha, my whole post was about how the devs said they largely use their gut feelings (1/3 of a of 3) when balancing and how that's not so great of an idea.
I just bring in Freddy and Legion just to remind people what happened and how the community's desires just happened to align with the devs'. I didn't say this explicitly, but I was trying to get at: the devs (for the most part) only take community feedback when they have already thought of the same thing. The only solid evidence given to us otherwise was with the STBFL rework, which was credited to a poster on reddit (?), and that's only one example in a long line of dissatisfied community criticisms.
Ah, yhea I would agree with that. Matheu (idk how to spell his name) only brought light to some certain issues after he got bullied by a swf as I recall.
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@Pipefish said:
So at its current state, DBD isn't very new player friendly. Most of the perks that make the game tolerable require excessive grinding. This is especially the case for the killer. So maybe offer a pack to help new people get started, that or add a bots mode like mobile, I dunno but I feel like this game could be much more populated if it was more new player friendly.
You are funny, indirectly incentivizing SWF groups at lower ranks.
I know that's not your goal, as well as you know nothing of how imbalanced this game is, an how much killers suffer. Trust me though, keep playing and I think you won't recommend that as much as you think you want to right now.
Although as for everything else, as in giving BP boosts just for existing in a new account I still don't like, because then smurfing will become more common, plus it wouldn't really matter as most of the perks you need are from Killers that you have to buy.
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@Hex_Stalk said:
Seriously, I don't give a damn about the disconnect penalty when a match is straight up UN FAIR.
Devs, see how survivors can be the sweatiest little tryhards in existance, see how camping and tunneling is boring and unfun, see how ONE objective for survivors has gotten boring and tedious. You say you want the game to be enjoyable when time and time again you have done the complete opposite, allowing patches to come out broken to the point where half of your community can't even play the game optimally.
I'm sure I speak for most of the community when I say this, we don't want better graphics, that isn't our top priority, we want a game that WORKS, is FUNCTIONAL, and FUN.
What's the point of the ptb if there is STILL problems upon release of an update?
I can only see this game dying sooner rather then later if something isn't done.
I disagree, DC off the forums; you won't! You won't!
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@elpoh said:
shirthless to every character or even... a nude DLC
nerf the hatch spawn (not keys) and moris
maybe a gamemode where gens repair itself very very slowy (30 min) but with a tremendously big map where they can play without thinking about genrush
maybe change swf to sw1f
demogorgon can jump with shred (and make stairs don't act like a magnet if you want hit someone in the other side on a second floor)
players getting 500 bloodpoints for every minute without find a match
filling empty espaces in the rift with bloodpoints/shards
the entity only spawn on perks when you buy another perk, not because he want to steal one when having more bloodweeb spawns to spawn
Erm how would we even nerf the hatch?
If demogorgon could jump... what about all the loops that are elevated? If the jump is not that high, or not easy to control would there even be a point of adding this?
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@ALostPuppy said:
I played him a bit before to get his achievements out of the way, and some challenges like the basement one but almost never play him anymore unless it's a daily.
And Jesus Christ...this killer is so brain-dead easy to play and overtuned to hell. Before with old ruin and pop it was already one of the dumbest things in this game. Now, slap on ruin, undying, tinkerer and BBQ with teleport cooldown add-ons and you have what is currently the most broken build in the game.
The perk arrangement is meta, sure but its a general meta.
Also Freddy is a M1 killer that relies on survivors mistakes, so no hes not broken.
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@NivlacACE said:
Every once in awhile I break out basement Bubba just to see how it goes, and every time I’ve done it (granted it’s only been like four times, so small sample size) the survivors always do some bizarre rescue plan that ends in a 4K.
No one ever just pumps out gens, it’s always trading up. I start with one, someone goes for the save and fails, and then the others try to save the two. And these are red rank survivors mind you, no clue what the deal is with that.
Why do people do anything?
This question is dumb.
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@Buttercake said:
So, we all know when Clown and Adam first started dating and hanging around the carnival Clown won Adam that super-cute unicorn plushie. It’s Adams favorite item.
We also know about that big fight they had about who got to wear the Mr. Puddles outfit that night...which led a crying Adam to fling his beloved unicorn plushie in Clown's face then run out into the night.
So now Clown has hung the beloved plushie on his hook too show Adam how much he loves and misses him...but what about when Adam and Clown make up?
This charm is only available for Killers. Why can't Adam ever take it back and carry it with him?
Protest! Protest to the devs!! This is so cruel! Adam is crying in his popcorn! ...So sad..... 🍭😢
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/RZU7LW6CSWA3/30812d89-e979-4125-9204-2b815908dbcb.jpeg
Listen to Adams cries! Hear how they haunt you!
No, stop.
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@Shymare_11 said:
There’s many reasons, however the most common ones are:
•Doesn’t like the killer/how the killer “plays”
•Doesn’t like the map
•Doesn’t like their teammates
and the list continues from there.
There is really no way to force someone to play something they do not wish to. Well, no way to do it without harming either side of a match (killer and survivors) in some shape or form. Whether the reason, there is no viable options to fix this that caters to both sides.
Incorrect, if they would just make it where during the 3rd stage you don't have to spam an input then it would solve two issues at once.
Where sure, the survivor can still get themselves to 3rd hook and then get killed on last hook, but it would stop them from insantly dying and it would be alot more drawn out then just dying allowing for teammates to have more time then what would of been even if it was only 10 seconds.
It would as well solve the annoying issue of having to spam an input on the hook, as I hate doing that, you might hate doing that, and most people I know hate doing that.
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@Wesker09 said:
It doesn't happen when I play killer (how convenient) yet when I play survivor my teammates kill themselves on hook a lot and it's kinda annoying
There is no specific reason, its just a way to "dc" without actually dcing.
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Erm, well its disappointing yes.
Although this is very similar to nothing really, they just demonstrated they can input daily rewards quicker then they can copy and paste the other Blight events.
So until they give back the original event and extend the event for however much time has pasted in the original event AT LEAST, then no, this is not better then nothing, its just damage control.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1707813#Comment_1707813
I'll take that bet.
Now that you have tooken that losing bet, what are you gunna give us in return?
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@Kind_Lemon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1707578#Comment_1707578
I'm talking about OG Freddy, where a dying survivor had to be woken up before being healed. I haven't even talked about anything regarding new Freddy.
About "gut feelings": that's not what I said, it's what the devs said drive their decisions, and I think that's an incredibly stupid principal reason.
"There aren't stats, but from "personal gut feelings", those were my experiences." was said to show how stupid that statement of listing extremely subjective gut feelings as a valid reason for major balance changes is.
About Deep Wounds; I only meant to say that it didn't fit with the developers' vision of the killer as a "partial health state" (hope I quoted that correctly :/) killer and wasn't trying to say anything about it being OP or not.
So, I think my post caused some confusion?
Yep, im confused.
You can have your cake back... just don't eat it too.
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@shiffpup2 said:
Is body camping an accepted strategy in this community?
Yes, although if it is done recklessly its frowned upon.
Either ways, its always counter-able and if it works its the survivors fault.
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@Kind_Lemon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1706286#Comment_1706286
I'm just saying that I don't know of the other circumstances around the changes to Freddy and Legion other than what the community was doing was not what the devs wanted (eg. Legion moonwalking to cause Deep Wounds to tick down). There aren't stats, but from "personal gut feelings" (see how unnaturally powerful these are?), those were my experiences. The Legion was basically unable to be stopped from downing a survivor once they set their eyes on a target, and Freddy had mechanics that allowed him to be a great slugger that weren't the slugging powers given to all killers universally
Also about the list: I went back and have quoted below what was on the summary of the stream posted to the forums by GoodBoyKaru
"
- Stats
- Community Feedback
- Personal Gut Feelings
"
My point was that personal gut feelings play an unusually large role in terms of balance, so I'm really not sure why "[not] very objective" comes into play here. There's no need for me to represent more than just the last point because the other bullet points are already being represented by other people in this thread and other threads. Additionally, your characterization as a "summary" is misrepresenting what I wrote.
All in all, it feels like you took the last part of my post and ignored it because you felt like I needed to not have my goal be what it was: pointing out how gut feelings are disproportionately impactful because even their acknowledgement as a major factor of balance significantly affects the reception of the other two.
Firstly, the premise of "feeling" im removing from the topic. As you can argue with "feelings" but its fallacious and pointless because it goes nowhere as you can argue ANYTHING, truth or not truth with feelings.
Freddy is not a "great" slugger by any means, he is a M1 killer other then his ability put down stares really. If Freddy is "great" at slugging, then almost every killer is "great" at slugging.
Now I will demonstrate how "Gut feeling" is just as much a waste of time to bring up in argument as "feelings".
Firstly its not something you can prove, and its not something that has an argument therefore its unfalsifiable and every claim that can not be false for that reason is not creditable.
Secondly, it is not asking anything and is an assertion.
Lastly, your adversary can make the same argument that goes against your argument based on the same thing (feelings, gut feeling) and you would have to agree with it just as much as your own statement.
For example, you said "There aren't stats, but from "personal gut feelings", those were my experiences.". Its the same as I could say from my "personal gut feelings" those were NOT my experiences. In doing this the two making these point got absolutely nowhere, and are now both right as there is no way to falsify the others claim.
I really don't think being legion and being able to down a survivor via exploit of Deep Wounds was patched because it was OP, but more so because it was not fun to go vs and not only that but also that it didn't really promote gameplay.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1706101#Comment_1706101
I'm not pretending anything just stating my opinion.
Just discussing on a discussing forum.
So no, I won't stop. Especially not for a random internet person that doesn't know anything about me
"Second, people only experience their own thing. Their personal skill level, their region, their specs. It all makes a difference. People like Otz would have a very difficult time picturing how it feels to be a survivor who plays twice a week for fun."
*Then goes on to say*
"As an individual your experience means next to nothing on it's own. You need to listen to those with experience ofcourse. But don't take everything they say as the truth. If you want to be a designer you need to be able to look at the big picture."
Whatever you wanna say buddy. LMAO XD
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1705640#Comment_1705640
Hey it's true
Take a person with 3000 hours experience. As of writing there are about 39000 people playing on steam. That means about 7800 hours worth of experience go by in an hour. In 24 minutes they already surpassed the experience of the 3000 hour player. On pc alone might i add
Second, people only experience their own thing. Their personal skill level, their region, their specs. It all makes a difference. People like Otz would have a very difficult time picturing how it feels to be a survivor who plays twice a week for fun.
In my personal 1000 hour experience i hardly had any bugs. Does that mean dbd doesn't have bugs?
As an individual your experience means next to nothing on it's own. You need to listen to those with experience ofcourse. But don't take everything they say as the truth. If you want to be a designer you need to be able to look at the big picture.
Ofcourse developers should listen to what the 3000 hour experience people say cause they themself don't have time for that amount of experience. But as far as letting the 3000 experience person balance the game itself would most likely end in disaster for every person that doesn't want to spend 3000 hours in the game
Stop pretending you are a game designer, or/and that you are giving good advice.
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@Pipefish said:
One moment I am playing my killer main (Legion) with Ruin, Undying, Tinkerer, and Discordance and having easy games. Next moment I am playing a killer I am less familiar with sub par perks and getting a lot of escapes. Hopefully MMR will be added soon because I wanna play against good teams with my main and not so good teams with my non mains :/
Really only a few killers are so different then most other killers that this would even be true, which would be Nurse, and Spirit.
Every other killer is quite alike the others.
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besides for the last snowflakey comment, all in all this is a good post
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1704193#Comment_1704193
k mate.
want me to address all your points just so I can address this one thing? will that somehow mean that what I say will have a different meaning? No. it won't.
but apparently I'm not allowed to focus on one part of what you said...nooooooo... I need to talk about all the things to disagree on one point right?
so...sure...let's waste a bunch of my time to address this.
The fact that Freddy has a relatively low pick rate but a SIGNIFICANTLY higher kill rate should be a major red flag to BHVR that he is too strong.
why is that? all that means is only a few people play freddy. and apparently they got good at it.
IDC what you want to say about Nurse or Spirit, but Freddy is objectively one of if not the strongest killers in the game and there are multiple reasons for it.
why don't you care? do you not care about stuff that would show you freddy isn't the strongest killer in the game? so unbiased of you to take this position.
I must preface this with...
I was an old Freddy main at rank 1. I played him without Ruin or NOED and was still quite effective with him. However I would acknowledge that he was, at the time, the weakest killer in the game.
I don't see how this is relevant in any way shape or form. whatever level of skill you had with old freddy is not important when talking about new freddy.
I play new Freddy regularly at rank 1 and I find him to be hands down the most oppressive killer to play. Consistently. Like I win games regularly with 3 or more gens left, AND I rarely have to camp or tunnel.
fun anecdote. How can you measure how oppressive you are? do you think kills=opressiveness or gens left=opressiveness? how did you measure how opressive you are?
So why is Freddy so strong?
First is his teleport. He has the best map pressure in the game because he can instantly go to the gen you are working on.
No he can't. the teleport has a cooldown. and takes a while to finish teleporting after you start. giving the survivor time to hide.
No other killer can do this, save for Demo and Hag but they have to set up first which greatly reduces their pressure.
is billy not a thing anymore?
also... are you saying a hag with traps set up doesn't have pressure? have you watched high skilled hags play?
Every single gen slowing or gen tracking perk is borderline God tier on Freddy. BBQ, DIscordance, Surveillance, Tinkerer, Thana, Ruin, Pop (especially Pop). Yes these are good perks for many killers, but on Freddy they become exponentially more powerful.
same for billy.
high mobility killers can use bbq, discordance, surveillance, tinkerer, ruin and pop better than slower killers... who knew?
freddy is not even in the top 5 of thana users though... so bad example there.
Second is his snares. He has an anti-chase that is very similar to Clown. Say what you want about Clown, but a good Clown will catch you CRAZY fast.
no true scotsman much? So what? if I loop a clown a lot is not because I played well, it's because he's bad... right? yeah...great discourse to be had here.
well, if you can't loop a freddy, it's not because he's strong, it's because you're bad. (see? this argument is dumb)
Freddy is just a slightly weaker Clown in this aspect, as he can't plant a puddle in front of you during a chase. It is damn near impossible to run a good Freddy for very long around most loops just as it can be a good Clown. This is a minor issue however.
you mean you can't loop a killer with a strong anti loop power for too long?
how insightful
Third is Dream World, or rather the fact it automatically gets Oblivious. This means that he gets a free BT counter, or any perk requiring a terror radius.
do you actually have any example that isn't bt?
it's just bt isn't it?
did you try waking up before going for a save?
Sure this hurts him too, but the perks he can't use aren't that great anyway (Unnerving, Insidious??? LOL). Infectious is probably the only TR perk that is good, but guess what? IT STILL WORKS FOR HIM! Yep try it, Infectious will make dreaming survivors scream. Oblivious doesn't stop that for some reason but it negates a lot of good survivor perks.
this is indeed wrong and should be fixed.
Fourth is stealth. He has built in semi-stealth due to him being INVISIBLE to awake survivors outside his TR and even sometimes in his TR.
that is on brand for freddy. hell... if you go with his actual powers, you shouldn't see at all while awake.
This means he can get really close to you while awake without you having a reasonable way to react. He is basically a Wraith.
you hear the terror radious and see him at that point. you have many reasonable ways to react. In many maps you can see any killer until he's super close either way, so I don't see what's so special about freddy here.
that and you spend what? 80% of the match asleep? freddy doesn't get to be invisible all that much.
Finally, he is the ONLY killer in the game with add-ons that affect gen speeds.
You have already been told this is wrong, so I won't bother repeating that
This is the big one. He has 3 add-ons that do this, and while they were nerfed that is not good enough. They shouldn't exist, period.
and all 3 of them are not good. they were before the nerf, but now their effect is minimal.
They look super strong because freddy's other addons are just crap in comparison. save for a couple of them.
Don't get me wrong, at first I loved them because my main tactic with old Freddy was to use range add-ons and tracking perks like Surveillance and Nurse's to permanently keep survivors asleep for that sweet 50% action penalty. It was a strong tactic, however since I had to put them to sleep myself it was fair since I had to be active to get that reward. But now you just fall asleep in 60 seconds OR when he hits you. You are going to be asleep more than 50% of the game easily, and usually without any action on the killer's part. Basically he just gets this stuff for free by equipping an add-on.
he gets 50% reduction for free? really? wanna run the math with me on that one?
Let's summarize... Freddy is basically a combination of Hag, Wraith, and Clown with built in BT counter and passive slow down that no other killer has access too.
Replace hag with demogorgon. freddy is limited on his teleports while hag isn't.
Pig has access to a bt counter and argueably the best slow down in the game. You really need to stop with this "no other killer can do the same" thing that you keep doing... did you not check? ever?
My entire point here is that Freddy just has WAY WAY too much in his base kit
he has a teleport and snares.
anything else you talked about isn't base kit
wanna see a quick list of killers that have a similar amount of things base kit?
pig has stealth, slow down and a dash attack.
billy has the highest mobility in the game and an instant down.
ghostface has stealth and an instant down.
demo has a little stealth, a teleport, full map detection and a dash attack.
so no... I don't think freddy has "WAY WAY too much in his base kit"
and that is why he has such a significantly higher kill rate compared to other killers.
that's your opinion. I think he has that kill rate because he's easy to do well with.
You can say "don't draw conclusions from data alone" remember that I told you I play new Freddy at rank 1 and my experience is that he is oppressive.
different people think diferent killers are more opressive than the others.
why do you think your experience means more than anyone elses? Which metric did you use to determine that?
Furthermore, as survivor, a good Freddy with a strong slow down build is one of the most difficult killers to beat.
a good killer with a strong build is hard to beat? wow...
next you'll tell me that a good 4 man SWF survivor team is hard to beat...
Literally your only chance against a killer like this is to run in a 4 man SWF,
I play solo and have beaten several good freddys.
but I guess they aren't really "good freddys" right?
the good freddys are obviously only the ones that have beaten me... definetively... right? /s
which anyone who plays this game could tell you is already broken, but I digress.
indeed
So what is the solution? How do we fix this?
You have yet to demonstrate the problem
I'm not just making this post to complain, I'm making it to offer a suggestion.
we all know you are doing both
Now I have been writing down my ideas for changes to Dead By Daylight I would like to see that I believe would improve the game. It's a lot, I will just copy and paste what I wrote for Freddy. Let's take a look...
NIGHTMARE
Survivors no longer passively fall asleep at the start of the game and do not see the sleep clock until they are hit and put into the Dream State at least once.
to me this is perfectly fair
Dream Snare radius reduced by 20%.
I don't see how this would change anything.
Oblivious removed from Dream World.
what does the dream world do now?
Nightmare can be always seen by awake survivors within 32m.
again, perfectly fair.
Remove stacking penalty on Snap Clap wake up action.
I would add a limit to how much the penalty goes. but removing this would make the clocks entirely useless.
Cat Block, Z Block, Pill Bottle, Paint Thinner, Outdoor Rope, Jump Rope, and Swing Chains reworked.
Cat Block inflicts Haemorrhage on sleeping survivors. Healthy survivors that are asleep will bleed.
so make it z block? it's still crap...
Z Block inflicts Mangled on injured survivors that are asleep and blocks the aura of their dream clock outside of 32m.
do you wanna remove the slowdown effects or add more of them? seems contradictory.
also... I think removing the clock aura works against freddy. let them waste a minute running across the map to wake up.
Pill Bottle makes the Nightmare; disappear intermittently to awake survivors; invisible to sleeping survivors outside of 32m.
ok
Paint Thinner reveals the survivor's aura for 4 seconds upon falling asleep.
this seems very meh... how often do survivors even wake up?
also... what about the pallets?
Outdoor Rope greatly increases interaction time for each successive Snap Clap.
so...what should be base kit in an addon? totally not silly...
Jump Rope causes the survivor's dream clock to move to a new location every 30 seconds.
even less incentive to go to the clock?
totally what freddy wants.... /s
Swing Chains causes Dream World to inflict the Oblivious status effect.
sure...
Garden Rake and Prototype Claws Dream Tokens reduced to 8.
why? pallets are easy to deal with already, why reduce them?
Prototype Claws aura reading removed. Prototype Claws inflict Hindered for 10 seconds on survivors that interact with Dream Pallets.
damn...what a nerf.
but fair... it's totally not in the survivors control if they get revealed or not right? and freddy is ALWAYS looking at them /s
Kid's Drawing adds 5 Dream Tokens.
totally...yeah... I absolutely would use this. totally not useless. /s
you somehow made the meme addon less useable...damn...
So let's unpack this.
The first line is actually a slight nerf and buff to Freddy, as one of his only drawbacks is that you KNOW it's a Freddy right when the game starts. This would give some leeway at the start of the game for survivors, and also give Freddy more element of surprise opportunities. Though of course once he hits someone they would see, but the point is he would have a bit more spook at the start. Once you hit them the clock appears and it functions as normal.
and again, this is fine
Making Dream Snares smaller means it would take better planning in their use. I feel like I can just spam them without care and they do more than what I need them to do. At least require me to use to skill here.
again, this would literally change nothing.
Next. we basically take away all the "fluff" from Freddy's base kit. The goal is to shift most of them to his add-ons.
and that, is a terrible goal. making a killer more addon reliant is never good.
Pill Bottle is a bad add-on IMO, it does nothing for him.
Didn't you spend quite a bunch of time saying his stealth is too good?
You should really update your stuff instead of just copy-pasting it.
This new version would do something for him. Notice how for most of these things while I offer to take away something from his base kit and move it to an add-on, I'm actually buffing it in the process because it now requires an add-on and therefore can be a tad better.
you literally made it worse mate.
you nerfed the range. and gave it nothing in return.
This all opens up new builds for Freddy. I enjoy add-ons that change how a killer functions over straight up making something they do faster or stronger. It leads to more interesting emergent gameplay.
and yet it's not what you did with your changes. all you did was limit freddy.
The dream pallet add-ons I feel are redundant. You don't need 3 of them, hell 1 is enough. So let's take Paint Thinner and do something else with it
I agree he doesn't need more than one.
but you also made paint thinner #########...
what I suggest is reminiscent of old Freddy and I would enjoy this as both killer and survivor.
so enjoyable to see an aura every 10 min in game...great stuff.
people don't wake up genious... it won't activate more than maybe 10 times total in a match. and more than half of them will be when you won't be able to use the information, wether because you are already chasing someone or because it's literally the person you are chasing.
and the ones where you aren't chasing someone? it's the guy that just came out of the hook. so you made a tunneling perk... survivors love those...
I only kept 2 dream pallet add-ons because I honestly couldn't think of another thing for Claws to do.
that's sad... I can give you like 5 different thing right now...
1- reduces the sleeping clock time by a set amount
2- decreases teleport charge time
3- reduces lullaby range
4- shows the aura of asleep survivors in a small range
5- gives freddy the ability to "unteleport" meaning, after a very small amount of time after he teleports, he can press the power button again and return to where he was before the teleport
All the slow down add-ons are gone and in it's place are add-ons that are still really good but not stupid to play against.
"still really good"... HA!
when was the last time you saw someone saying survivors focusing more on doing gens instead of going to clocks to wake up is good for freddy? or doing gens instead of waking each other up?
Giving Oblivious in Dream World as an add-on is acceptable. Base kit it is not.
and why is that? bt counter? other killers also have bt counters in their base kit mate.
you need to give better reasoning
Finally we make his lame BP add-on a bit better.
it's funny that you think you made it better... there' literally no reason to use it over literally anything else.
This is just to offset the fact his snares just got worse.
technically, yes they did.
also, the terrible addon no one would ever use is compensation for the nerf? damn... you are cruel.
But even if the addon wasn't terrible, you literally didn't solve the thing you consider to be the problem with them.
so a terrible reward that does nothing is compensation for a dumb nerf that changed nothing... quite fitting
These are just my suggestions, obviously they won't be implemented but something like this would be a good change for Freddy. If you guys have suggestions you are free to put them here.
Nah...
Be aware I'm not looking to argue with anyone about whether Freddy is too strong or not.
I know that. You have already decided he is and won't listen to anyone telling you otherwise no matter what they bring to the discussion.
totally not a terrible person to have a discussion with... /s
He very much is
You have yet to demonstrate this
and the chart above confirms it.
it does not.
We need to discuss ways to fix this.
No we don't. Because you have yet to demonstrate that there is something that needs fixing.
besides infectious fright working on sleeping survivors, that is indeed bs and should not be the case.
well then... there it is. I replied to your entire first post without mentioning the chart (besides when you mentioned it first) wasn't this a great use of my time?
can we focus on the part I wanna talk about now?
Or is there any other bs reason we can't?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1704193#Comment_1704193
Saying "devs said blah" is not a perfectly good reason,
first, yes it is. the data came from them.
second, I gave you other reasons. you are just too stubborn.
especially when I can point to the previous data dump and demonstrate a clear pattern with Freddy.
you actually haven't done that. You said he is too strong and said the stats confirm it.
you didn't demonstrate a pattern between them and didn't even attempt to. You are just holding the stats up as shield to protect your opinion from people calling you out on it.
You already decided freddy is op and took things that don't demonstrate that, as proof that he is.
and is now acting like a child when people correctly tell you that this is not that the graphs shows.
because the strenght of a character, is not part of the graph.
the graph only shows 2 things. how often a character is picked and how many kills he gets on average.
ANYTHING ELSE you get from them, are your INTERPRETATION of things, NOT what things actually are.
LEARN. TO. READ. GRAPHS.
THAT IS THE RED FLAG.
the pattern you didn't demonstrate?
guess that means there isn't a red flag, since you failed to provide the pattern.
My argument in the OP was drawn from not the charts.
Just because the chart isn't your only reason, it doesn't mean you didn't present it as an argument.
I said you drew your conclusion from it. at least partially. and you did.
"and the chart above confirms it." - what is this if not you using the chart as an argument?
You claim I am doing that when I am not.
again, "and the chart above confirms it." - what is this if not you using the chart as an argument?
That is exactly what strawman is. You draw attention away from my actual argument to make the (false) accusation that I am drawing a conclusions solely from this one chart.
1st- I never said you drew your conclusions solely from the chart. I said it was partially from it
2nd- the definition of a strawman is
is a form of argument and an informal fallacy of having the impression of refuting an argument, meanwhile the proper idea of argument under discussion was not addressed or properly refuted.
which is ironically, what you are doing right now...
You claim I am doing that...
You draw attention away from my actual argument to make the (false) accusation that I am drawing a conclusions solely from this one chart...
these are all examples of you strawmanning me.
This entire time my point has been that
- the graphs cannot be used to show that freddy is op, because that is not a data point in the graphs.
- Using them to reach the conclusion of freddy being op is wrong.
- You shouldn't have used them as part of your arguments.
and yet you failed to address that time and time again.
up until this comment I hadn't even expressed my opinion on if freddy is op or not, because it was completely irrelevant.
If you use the wrong strategy, but reaches the correct answer, it still means you used the wrong strategy.
and when I criticize your strategy, the answer is irrelevant.
Not once do either of you actually address my points
Because that's not what I was trying to do.
or try to refute the evidence
Your only evidence is anecdotes and the graphs.
How can you say I didn't try yo refute the evidence when the graphs are part of it?
other than to say basically "this is completely inadmissible as evidence of anything because the devs said so".
and again, strawman.
How many times do I need to tell you that the graphs don't show that freddy is op just because you want them to?
if you wanna say "Freddy is the most lethal killer in both graphs, therefore he is op" then you MUST accept the argument "Nurse is the least lethal killer in both graphs, therefore she is the worst".
We both know the second argument is BS. Why do you think yours is any better? (spoiler alert, it's just as BS as the nurse one but you refuse to see it)
Now, mister "you need to address everything"... I'm looking forward to your reply to absolutely EVERYTHING I said in this post.
If you don't address everything, then anything you say can be dismissed by me. (that's how it works right?)
Omg, geez that must've been rough.
Aye tho, at least you tried. :P
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1702354#Comment_1702354
It's not a conclusion, it's a confirmation. I already knew he was too strong without any data, just by playing as/against him at rank 1. The chart merely confirms what I've been saying for a while now.
Hence I provide a detail breakdown of what exactly makes him strong. Unlike the usual "Spirit not counter play what can you do?" nonsense that is IMO is just theory crafting, what I present here is none of that. This information comes from experience, and while it is subjective, the fact I can articulate EXACTLY what it is about him that is too strong and I can identify very specific and simple solutions gives more weight to my argument.
Lol no, you are tripping.
Your confirmation of this is a conclusion that its confirmed LMAO.