Defnotmeghead
Defnotmeghead
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4067873#Comment_4067873
Meanwhile, survivors brought Fixated and Urban Evasion instead.
So survivors had a way to make it done faster, but killer didn't have a way to make it done slower.
Only thing killer could try is to stack info/chase perks, but they couldn't really prevent survivors from finishing blood gens.
So devs had two options, either nerf speed of blood gens, or let killer perks regress them. This way killer at least has to use perks for it and it's not worse for survivors by default.You can also adjust to it now. Killer use Ruin a lot in this event? Well, then use totem hunting perk to get rid of it quickly. Extrasensory Perception is by far best perk for this and it's even better if you want to use Urban evasion anyway in this event.
Faster as in, shaving off 2-5 seconds at most per trip.
Killers got more value from kicking a blood gen twice and thus having it regress 10%(+additional time). 1 more trip with the can added an average of 30 seconds to a gen, basekit, no perks. That's basically being able to kick a generator twice and suddenly the generator going from 99% to 65%. Basekit. You literally could do Undying, Thrill, Devour, Third Seal and you would likely win games if you were willing to kick some gens.
The devs had more options btw:
apply all gen perks that do not affect the speed(which would have helped tremendously considering Nowhere To Hide counts there)
adjust the minimum distance in which a fuel tank spawns
Apply gen perks, but reduce the effect
Remove 1 blood gen, make it a normal gen
The speed of blood gens were fine, again, the range is 75-145 seconds depending on where the fueltanks and bloodgens spawn. On average, the time it takes for a single survivor to do a bloodgen is slower than a survivor doing a normal gen.
The main problem with blood gens, was that you checked a generator, and didnt know it's "true" progression because a survivor could have been around the corner with a full can, making the gens FEEL fast, despite them being slower overall. In fact, I think a basekit Nowhere to Hide on bloodgens would have fixed like 75-90% of issues on the killer side. -
@niteowl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4067106#Comment_4067106
Yeah but survivors dont rely on gen perks nearly as much as killer. There plenty of other very strong efficiency perks to run unrelated to gens, along with exhausting perks that buy plenty of time on their own. Survivor with no gen perks > killer with no gen perks.
Survivors rely quite a lot on toolboxes, which dont work either. Survivors with toolboxes=killers with gen perks.
-
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4067272#Comment_4067272
Its still about 75-80 seconds to do a blood gen, slightly faster. The other thing that YOU aren't taking into account is that if the killer comes by a blood gen and its almost done, they kick it, but then they aren't starting a chase, because it is likely that survivor will be off somewhere else getting blood for example. Whereas a normal gen if you get near it and its nearing completion, there's probably a survivor on it and you can immediately start a chase.
The shortest time is 75 seconds, I have not been able to do a gen faster than 75 seconds.
The longest time I've done 1 gen solo uninterrupted (no gen regression) was 135 seconds.
As for "You arent taking into account a blood gen and its almost done, they dont start a chase" YOU CAN SEE THE AURA OF THE NEAREST PUMPS, so guess where they likely are? Also kicking a blood gen increases the odds they need a 4th can, which exponentially increases the time survivors spend on gens. Just 1 charge too short means 15-25 seconds added as they need to run back, fill up enough just in case you damaged it again, walk back (as filling it up to compensate for charges lost while running takes roughly the same amount of time and increases miscalculation risks) and finish it.
With a normal gen, they could hide in a locker, they could be behind a rock, they could be just outside the range for Nowhere To Hide.
What needed to happen this year was equal treatment, the only time I find survivors actively winning is when killers decide to chase someone they shouldnt, and survivors managed to secure 1 normal gen and the main building blood gen before the first hit. The killrate based on my matches as killer is 3.3(because I dont care about hatch), they have NEVER been able to finish all 5 gens. Last year, my killrate was 2.3, because I spend 2-3 days figuring out what perks could work with blood gens and effectively had a 1.2k average, if I ignore those 2-3 days, the killrate would be 2.6, which translates to a 3k or more 80% of the games, without gen regression, without tunnelling and slugging, just switching up perks to benefit me. Undying as a solo hex was really powerful. -
@PetTheDoggo said:
My guess is they simply didn't like the results in kill rates from last event and I would say fact that killers couldn't really stop blood gens was part of it.
But they could, if they adjusted their gameplan. Pain Res was still top 5 perks used despite it very obviously having no effect, despite Darkness Revealed giving you much more value as survivors have to move around a lot.
Meanwhile, survivors brought Fixated and Urban Evasion instead. -
@TWiXT said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/465662/blood-generators
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4067100#Comment_4067100
Apparently neither of you remember how BAD it was last year, I'll just leave this here:
You mean the year that despite the devs saying not a single generator perk applies to blood gens, still got people bringing Pain Res in 60% of the games? The year that despite the devs saying you might want to bring information perks to interrupt survivors and not a single person did? The year where hitting a survivor caused them to drop their blood can, leaving it to empty out overtime meaning leaving chase after a hit was beneficial because beyond healing you've effectively removed generator progress?
The year where the intention was changing up your gameplay, but most killers refused to adapt to the gamemode?
No, last year wasnt horrendous, there were some changes they needed to make, like Nowhere to Hide being usable, but not gen regression to this extend.
If you're okay with genregression, then I demand the ability to apply toolboxes and BNP. -
@Kitsune_King said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4067128#Comment_4067128
the problem is that there are also blood gens usually not too far from a fuel tank which speeds up gen progress significantly on top of progress likely also being made on a normal generator. regression perks are not overkill imo
The measured average is still 110 seconds per blood generator with no way to speed up that process. Just patrolling the gens once in a while and giving it a kick gives you 2-3x more pressure than a normal gen.
Regression perks arent overkill on normal gens because progression perks and toolboxes exist. They are absolutely overkill and should at the very least half the damage on blood gens -
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4067096#Comment_4067096
I always feel that this map is a mess because it was not really developed. It indeed looks like a test map and the special tile is just a joke and not iconic at all.
For me the map was basically developed shortly before the Chapter was released. Because at first it was advertised without a Map, so I can only imagine that the license holders changed their mind at some point and there was not enough time to make a proper map. Because after all, the same designers made Ormond Lake Mine, which is an awesome map.
And it is not like there would not have been locations for it. I think something like the prison in a state after the Governor did his work on it would have been a great map (and it would bring the prison to the game without making it an indoor map…).
I personally always disliked Rotten Fields, especially after the corn rework, because it was so easy for mobility killers to catch up to survivors without survivors really having any tiles to run to other than hugging the outer walls.
The walking dead map is basically Rotten Fields, but with no corn at all, so every single killer just has it quite easy info-wise.
I genuinely wish they at the very least added some walls in the center so that mobility killers dont have basically free cross-map information -
@Kitsune_King said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4067128#Comment_4067128
the problem is that there are also blood gens usually not too far from a fuel tank which speeds up gen progress significantly on top of progress likely also being made on a normal generator. regression perks are not overkill imo
You must not have read the "Which is fast, sure, but the average distance(so far) to the furthest generator from a fuel tank is 15 seconds running, which loses you 30% of a fuel tank".
Ive seen 3 of the 4 fuel tanks spawn between 2 normal gens, and the 4th one pretty close by. There was a blood gen on the opposite side of the map. If you took a direct path, it would take you 25 seconds while RUNNING.
If blood gens were guaranteed to spawn within 20 meters of a fuel tank, I would totally get behind you and then I would absolutely want gen regression to apply to blood gens.
Gen regression is absolutely overkill, as of yesterday, I have not lost a single match running ruin/undying/surveillance and a 4th perk of my choosing. The closest I got to losing was when they got lucky, destroyed 2 totems within the 1st minute and then my biggest worry was pressuring the right generators. WHICH ISNT AN ISSUE, BECAUSE YOU CAN SEE THE NEAREST FUELSTATION AS KILLER so you can see which blood gens are easy to pop and which arent. Survivors dont see the nearest fuel station. -
@ChurchofPig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4067100#Comment_4067100
There was plenty wrong with them. Having generators take that short amount of time to complete with no way for a killer to really do much about it, it honestly made the tunneling problem this game has always had even worse and it made playing killer feel miserable. Some killers, like my girl Piggy, basically had no power anymore due to nothing affecting blood generators and there were 4 of them. Literally if you just focused down the blood generators, the first RBT wouldn't activate until the final generator was complete. It was absolutely broken and in favor of survivors last year. It's not just "because killers complained" it was an actual bad idea and I played mainly survivor last year.
Also, as a quick comparison:
Loading up 1 fuel can ~ 9 seconds
Emptying a FULL fuel can ~ 11 seconds
Charges a full fuel can covers ~ 44%
Shortest distance running to a gen ~ 5 seconds (running is only worth it if its so close)
Which means the quickest solo generator takes 25(running between gen and fuel tank)+25(2.5 refuels to combat spilling)+25(emptying the fuel can)=75 seconds.
Which is fast, sure, but the average distance(so far) to the furthest generator from a fuel tank is 15 seconds running, which loses you 30% of a fuel tank, meaning you would have to go 4 times. Which is even while running:
75 seconds spend running between the fuel tank, 30 seconds of emptying fuel cans, 40 seconds refueling and suddenly that 75 super speedy gen takes 145 seconds solo without any interference of the killer.
Now, fuel tanks could be bugged, but right now, gen regression perks are overkill. -
@ChurchofPig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4067100#Comment_4067100
There was plenty wrong with them. Having generators take that short amount of time to complete with no way for a killer to really do much about it, it honestly made the tunneling problem this game has always had even worse and it made playing killer feel miserable. Some killers, like my girl Piggy, basically had no power anymore due to nothing affecting blood generators and there were 4 of them. Literally if you just focused down the blood generators, the first RBT wouldn't activate until the final generator was complete. It was absolutely broken and in favor of survivors last year. It's not just "because killers complained" it was an actual bad idea and I played mainly survivor last year.
And that was absolutely true, it was weird that Plague could infect bloodgens as plague can infect any interaction, but Pig was effectively gone (altho, survivors didnt always know that).
Killer powers should never have been affected by it, but this year is quite extreme in the opposite. Like, imagine having to collect headtraps first before being able to put them on, and then survivors being able to use dead hard to remove them instantly. It's weird to use pain res on blood gens -
@Mikeadatrix said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4067100#Comment_4067100
Ah, I see you preferred only going against Sadako last year because no other killer could apply ample pressure given, yknow, ZERO gen perks on the Killer side worked. The event has been out for 5 hours, my boy.
And ZERO survivor gen perks worked. More killers than Sadako worked, you just needed to rely more on weirder plays.
Right now, this is kinda ridiculous. I've been running Ruin/Undying/Surveillance and the pressure on blood gens is insane. If they try to remove the hex, I get 4-5 hooks before they can do a single blood gen. If they do focus on blood gens, I know where they are at. The closest game I came to losing was RPD, as I was playing Doctor and survivors had 2x WoO -
@Rokku_Rorru said:
The walking dead map is the one I want gone atm
I wouldnt say gone, but it does need a rework. It's "main" building should actually be a main building, not a glorified jungle gym
-
@ThatRyanB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4064406#Comment_4064406
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4064534#Comment_4064534
I appreciate you taking the time to list these out. Let me take a look at them and pass along your feedback.
I haven't tested it out yet, but unless Deception got altered between release(which isnt in the patch notes, hence me not testing), the text is not accurate:
It says whenever you try to fast-enter a locker. But there are 2 ways to fast-enter a locker:
1. While running.
2. While standing still and holding shift.
1 lets you use deception. 2 lets you fast-enter the locker without using deception.
That might be bugged, but before that's reported to be a bug, I must add that 2 as a seperate functionality is key on how you can actually use Deception to Decept killers. Killers who know how Deception works can still be tricked by standing still while holding shift and fast-entering a locker normally. It's also crucial to still fast-enter a locker like that when facing Doctor and while running that perk.
So, the request would be to add "Whenever you attempt to fast-enter a Locker while running:" rather than to change the functionality to fit the words -
@OneShape said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4064400#Comment_4064400
I would argue this made player onboarding harder. Dead Hard for example does not make it very clear that it only works once per hook stage. I even know experienced player who thought they forgot to mention it when updating the text, because "Whenever you are unhooked" is not a good way of saying "Once per hook stage." It technically works, but it is just not very clear or easy to understand and I expect a lot of new players to try to use it multiple times per hook stage.
Once per hookstage doesnt work linguistically, because that implies if you've been on the hook for 2 states in a row, you get 2 Dead Hards.
Whenever you are unhooked implies whenever you are pulled off the hook. The only muddies things around Pyramidhead's Cages.
Whenever you are unhooked is simply that it doesnt matter when you get unhooked. Not that you can use the effect whenever. That is consistent through all perks. -
The thing is, the bounds needed a delay because they would break what survivors can do and would look really unnatural with ping in mind too. Like, you could register to grab a survivor who would be mid-vault because on your screen the survivor didnt vault yet, because on your end the instant bound happens, where the server and the other players see something very different.
And while Nurse definitely needs a nerf surrounding information perks (as many people suggested, making her endure blindness while blinking/recharging from blinks would help a lot), Blight only really needs to be toned down to 110% (aswell as a few other mobility killers). Wesker is fine where he is. At best, he should get a bigger bound distance when he is not in any chase so he actually can close the gap a little. -
@deranktraps said:
Would be nice to have the perks back that boosted our bloodpoint gains back between both survivor and killer it's kinda weird that the negative feedback regarding bloodpoint gains specifically goes ignored and there's been so much of it.. New Chapter and we only have a lousy 1.10x match incentive that doesn't do anything even if it was higher, offerings barely do anything for those gains as well unless you have a full lobby using them which is rare until the anniversary comes out.. We just need more ways to get bloodpoint quicker than the usual 100k or slightly more on a good match, 1.10x match incentives that don't do anything, and offerings that barely do anything unless you have a lobby full of people using them... I don't why the negative feedback regarding bloodpoints specifically goes ignored
Honestly, I disagree. They were never really good to have equal value on both sides (4 protection hits vs 4 unique hooks, one was relatively easy to the point that everyone ran it, the other one was so hard to pull off that you earned more BP by running other perks).
100k with current BP prices is pretty good, with old BP prices, you would need about 250k, which required 4 people bringing BPS and you maxing out on your BP
There are very few people complaining about BP, because other than prestiging, what are you really using it for?
It would take me about 1 full month to go from p1 to p3 on the old system, with me playing easily 30 hours per week.
Now I can go from p1 to p9 in about 3 weeks, only playing 10 hours a week. I went from being able to get 36 prestiges per year, to getting 200 prestiges per year even tho I play 50% less on average.
That being said tho, I do believe perks should get up to 25% BP incentive based on how much they get used by the community. Relatively simple math too:
25-[% of slots it takes up per game].
No perk can have more than 25% of slots, because survivors can bring at most 4/16, which is 1/4. No perk can be used less than 0%. So it's a range of 0-25% based on total perk usage.
If you pick 4 perks that are basically at 0% use rate, you get 100% bonus bloodpoints.
That way, we see more off-meta perks when people want more BP. It's a win-win tbh -
@OnryosTapeRentals said:
The map is beautiful and most of the loops are okay, but it's absolutely huge. I understand the playable area isn't that big, but the distance between one corner of the map and the other is significant.
Navigating this map as Survivor feels like it heavily incentivises running Exhaustion perks like Sprint Burst to cut down on travel time. As a Killer, if you don't have a map traversal ability you can spend a painfully long time patrolling between gens. It's very reminiscent of original RPD to me. Broadly a good map, but just too big for easy navigation.
Honestly, it needs something like metro stations for quick travel IMO.
If it would be cooler/more balanced:
Only 1 metro cart, once 1 survivor is on it, 3 seconds before the door closes(so 4 survivors could go in) and goes to the next station at which point it breaks down and needs repairs, metro moving at 2000% movementspeed
Killers can enter any point in front or behind the metro cart and move to the next station at 3000% movementspeed (so they would arrive before the metrocart does in case survivors try to use it as a way to escape) -
@zonkednb said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061044#Comment_4061044
You're right. There are killers with so much innate pressure that regression isn't 100% necessary. At least not stacking it as much as possible.
I think we kinda see the main issue with going after regression perks with a nerf. All it will do is widen the gap between S-tiers and C-tiers. It'll make some killers so much harder to succeed with, and others will be impacted yes, but not by much.
It would make the survivor experience better, but might hurt the variety of killers faced. Trapper matches would be over in a flash outside of a lucky early game snowball, Blight matches would largely play the same. So more Blights, I imagine.
As for your scorched earth approach, it might flatten the curve a bit, but it'd definitely be a risky decision in terms of player retention. It could just as much be the saviour patch as it is the apocalypse patch.Its not really scorched earth, it will REALLY harm the current meta and people who, for some reason, actually like sitting 5 minutes on 1 single generator despite there being 3-4 gens left.
I literally see the game bleeding, there are spikes when there are new releases and fun gamemodes, but once all that is gone, player count drops quite significantly compared to the last time there was no new gamemode or release and just plain old 1v4. What they did last chapter did help, its a shame they didnt implement the 9.1 ptb with some tweaks, with potential reversability in the long run. Elusive would have been nice to have back then -
@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058135#Comment_4058135
Well I am pretty sure it's at least intended that the visual queue happens 0.6 seconds before the vine attack actually damages. If not, then that seems to be a bug, or lag.
But it doesn't change the fact that if a Vecna places a vine attack with the survivor right in the center of it, that the survivor just has to hold w to dodge the attack. That's why Vecna players always have to place it a bit ahead of the survivor.
The Undergate attack is particularly dodgeable in my experience, so I see no problem with that.
I'd probably not be against some small nerfs, but I hope he only gets some smal nerfs and that's it.
Oh yeah, but again, if the survivor doesnt see where it's placed, they cannot dodge it. Nemesis had a zombie bug in 2v8 last year where zombies got invisible. Nemesis nor his zombies were exactly strong in 2v8 prior to the current one. Yet, when his zombies turned invisible, suddenly they were impossible to counterplay.
Visualisation matters equally, if not more than the actual mechanics behind it.
And again, Undergate is dodgable if you're able to run a straight line. But due to a lack of lullaby while also removing the TR, on a lot of maps its still basically a free hit and a free late kill (since you're not audible/visible near the hook untill its too late). It isnt overly strong, it's just terribly designed. I do think you should get control of movement faster too, or at least a 3 second haste effect, it's kinda clunky as its designed as an ambushing skill, but its not exactly an ambush in any regard.
With a 3 second haste, survivors still have enough time to vault a window or reach most pallets. -
@zonkednb said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but a lot of the complaining about regression meta these days seems to come from people being annoyed that they feel obligated to run it just to keep up with the pace of the game. This would counter it, yes, but it would also leave many killers high and dry, unable to deal with current gen speeds while also lacking the mobility or zoning to prevent progress. Gen kicks are limited, PR is limited, so wars of attrition aren't really tenable any more.
I do like the idea of a perk designed to mitigate nasty 3 gens. Although many would argue that landing in a 3 gen situation is survivor fault. It makes it a dicey situation because any perk that can undo a 3 gen would massively adjust how survivors have to play. Gen choice goes out the window and which gen the killer pressures no longer matters. Not sure I'm clever enough to come up with a perk that's balanced for this purpose
It's also people like me, who are annoyed that tunnelling only is as viable as it is thanks to perks like Grim and Pain Res.
I dont mind regression perks existing, but its mobility killers overusing regression perks when they dont even need to rely on more than 1 perk that makes the regression meta so annoying. In fact, I wouldnt mind if regression perks would work like exhaustion perks. It used to be. Ruin and Pop were mutually exclusive, you could only have 1, not both. It would be nice if using 1 regression perk would put other regression perks on cooldown. Then adjust the numbers so that you only need 1 regression perk and only really bring 2 if you have a similar situation like Ruin and Pop. Like, you could still use Pain Res and Pop, because Pain Res only has 4 uses and Pop remains useful for a longer time. But running both at the same time you wouldnt be able to use both on 1 gen in quick succession.
On top of that, if people say they have to run it because otherwise they dont stand a chance, is more an issue with the MMR system rather than the pace of the game. Ofcourse the game is going to be difficult as hell if your average chase against any survivor you face is 120 seconds. I've been facing players who "only" have 200 hours playing a certain killer, I've faced that killer 300 hours and played it for at least 100 hours also. Ofcourse I am going to outlive chase.
If I were to demand anything from BHVR, it's to implement some basekit changes that would actively hurt current playstyles a lot. Then reset MMR for everyone. It doesnt make sense that I face 2 entirely different Weskers. One running 3 info perks and 1 regression perk just in case and absolutely demolishing us after merely 5 minutes with 3 gens remaining because we dont have comms, the other one running 3-4 regression perks, tunnelling at 5 gens and slugging in the 2v1 and barely having 1 gen remaining. One clearly fits the MMR bracket, the other got there due to the MMR system not accounting for the fact that killers can force situations to happen that gains them much more MMR than they should. -
@PleaseRewind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058141#Comment_4058141
I really don't know how a good metric this is as a sign of drop in players. Ever since they introduced the incentives I haven't seen much of a change at times when survivor gets them and when killer gets them. Sure there has been ebbs and flows but overall pretty consistent for me. As in, during the day survivors gets it and at night killer get its.
Back when it was originally introduced, the BP bonus didnt get much higher than 1.5x on survivor during the day, and in the night, it got up to 2x-2.5x for killer, but that's mainly because everyone is asleep at that point and survivors die quicker than killers finish games. If a new killer got released, the survivor bonus tended to reach 2x-2.5x. And in that era, there were also timeslots where neither side got a BP bonus.
I've seen 3x bp rewards on survivors during the day a couple of times the past year. I've only seen 1.5x for killer when it would normally be 2x. I've seen 3.5x once when Springtrap came out. I cannot even remember the last time I saw no BP incentive at all. It's always been survivors, and once 1 am hits, it's slightly towards killer. It doesnt gradually drop to 0 to both sides and slowly increase towards killers, it pretty much just swaps.
Its not really about when survivors get it vs when killers get it. It's how big it gets. -
@vol4r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058141#Comment_4058141
It's probably because "survivior mains" switched to playing killer.
Wild guess, I know.
No, no they didnt. Killer queue remained relatively steady for a while. Survivor mains dont have a reason to play killer if they can get 2.5x bp bonus playing survivor.
-
@skwillexy said:
How about buffing F tier killers so you see killers besides Nurse and Blight? No?
S tier killers break the base design of what the game is supposed to be, which means that a lot of killers need borderline busted or boring mechanics to keep up with high skilled survivors.
If you nerf Nurse, Blight and Kaneki, you can nerf survivor meta perks, reduce pallet count by 1-2 on average on every map, reduce the strength of certain tiles.
Because you cant buff F tier killers to deal with maps balanced around S tier killers, when those F tier killers have very problematic abilities when scaled to that point -
The problem with Henry is that he can spam, and that survivors cant realistically dodge his attacks. Mechanically its possible, visually its not. Other than that, the amount of spam he can do is insane regardless of dodgability. It needs to be relatively easy to dodge if it can be spammed like that.
He has design problems, that doesnt make him OP, just impossible to face unless you shift+W away from him. And we can all agree that shift+W is quite boring gameplay.
I rather see him be able to destroy pallets and block windows around him when he emerges from the ground instead. Makes it quite powerful, worth the use and prevents players from just dropping a pallets and shift+w, because he could emerge on The Game and destroy 6 pallets at once -
@Wezqu said:
Haven't seen any real change of amount of killer players. Some people state they stop playing but what proof we have they stopped and there is always new players.
I havent really noticed a drop in killer players, but I have noticed a very significant drop in survivor players. BP rewards are consistently higher towards survivor, and the only times I see them towards killers, is 3-4am my region when 99% of potential players are asleep. And they've been dropping since April last year.
As for new players, I wont be so sure, pretty much all the player gain from RE and FNAF have all gone -
@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4054477#Comment_4054477
If a survivor is in the center of a vine attack, all they need to do is keep running forward and they dodge the vine attack. And that is mathematically provable. Survivors gain 2.4 meters distance within 0.6 seconds, which is the delay of the vine attack. The radius however of the vine attack is only 1.46 meters.
In my opinion Vecna is pretty fine the way he is, I just think his power should be a little less spammable, and then he'd be in a perfect spot.
Nope, not true, they dont have enough speed to get out. They need 5% haste to do so.
The mechanical delay is 0.6 seconds after you locked the attack in, but the visual delay and potential desync isnt. If you visually see you're in the center, you cant dodge. Same is true for the underworld attack, you have to shift+W the moment you see him come towards you, otherwise you dont get out. And that's assuming you have a straight path.
He needs a lullaby for his underworld mode, like Spirit, but like 8 meters distance at best (just to compensate for closed corners), and his vine needs to be more visual from the start.
Other than that, by far my biggest complaint is the clock mechanic. If it worked a bit more like Freddy, where you're immune/resistant to it for some time if you helped remove it, it would already be so much better. Right now, it doesnt really matter if you do it or not. You need to be a good SWF to use it properly, but a good swf with comms should not be standard. -
@OrangeBear said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4054475#Comment_4054475
I don't think dead hard is only strong because of tunelling.
It's strong for the reason it always has been strong. In terms of chase duration it's latest possible form of distance that can be granted. This makes the killer risk overcomitting or cut their losses. With Sprint Burst and Lithe, the risk is lower because they are used much earlier in the chase.
Lithe is an inbetween of Sprint Burst and Dead Hard. It's not as effective against top mobility killers, very strong against non mobility killers.
Dead Hard is good against every killer when it landsI dont really consider DH to be that strong tho. I basically compare it to a pallet stun. That survivor basically gets a pallet stun that I could have avoided by considering their perks (if I didnt see any exhaustion perk yet, and I can only assume 2 perks at most, gotta bait the DH).
And Lithe is absolutely powerful against mobility killers, the obstacle matters:
Nurse? Needs to waste at least 1 blink just to get through and then another to close the gap.
Wesker? Needs to waste at least 1 bound usage to vault or use it to go around
Blight? Needs to vault/break and then use his ability to catch up
Spirit? Depends on her addons, but generally needs to waste about 25% of her power just to get around.
DH can fail against Nurse if there is the slightest bit of desync, where she hits you before she appears.
Against Blight it can be wasted too since he can go past you while lethal rushing to bait a DH and then quickly turn around.
So I would actually argue Lithe is stronger than DH against top mobility killers, and DH being stronger against low mobility killers as it baits them into committing, where most higher mmr low mobility killers are going to leave survivors who triggered Lithe after a vault, where DH baits them into maintaining a chase. -
@whirlwind931123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4054475#Comment_4054475
Best exhaustion perk is undoubtedly DH. Whenever I see a sweat squad, it's always 3-4 DH + 3-4 DS. It all ties together. They rush gens hard, so you need to tunnel someone out to slow the game down, so they run DH + DS to prevent this. Anyway, I don't even think DH is that great of an anti-tunnel perk since if the killer is tunneling, they'll return to hook and hit the survivor they will tunnel causing them to get Deep Wound, which would prevent Dead Hard.
DH is being used because it's a great standalone perk (main reason) and also a decent anti-tunnel perk. M1 killers generally need to swing early to reach them before the pallet or window and DH is a extra health state. DH is also still great against most killer's powers too, e.g. Bubba, Nurse, and Blight.
Also, if Lithe and SB are better, why aren't they running it over Dead Hard? The only reason they would use DH over Lithe and SB is if it was better. Couldn't they run Off The Record + SB/Lithe so they can also run the "better" exhaustion perks?
Also, if DH is being used as an anti tunnel tool, it should have a time limit, so that killers that aren't tunnelling aren't punished for it.
They run it, because tunnel meta. Genrushing isnt that common, and hard gen rushing is rare if you create any form of pressure. time, where DH is "only" used 14% of the time. BECAUSE Lithe puts an obstacle between you and the killer.
In fact, if you added 20 second extra cooldown to SB and added a functionality to press E whenever to activate Sprintburst, it would be SO so good that you wouldnt ever see another exhaustion perk inside the meta.
As for DH being an anti-tunnel tool, then it shouldnt be countered by deepwounds or exhaustion perks too and just work like Mettle of Man: Free healthstate, no downsides. -
@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4052360#Comment_4052360
Nurse can aim her blink at survivors, just like Vecna can aim his vine attack at survivors. There is no difference here. The big difference between Nurse and Vecna is that Nurse can readjust with her second blink, and has more range thanks to her lunge she can use after blinking, compared to the radius of Vecna's vine attack. Vecna's vine attack is without a doubt much more dodgeable than a Nurse who is blinking on top of you.
Vecna doesn't slow down as much as Nurse when holding his power, but he does slow down to 2.99 M/S, so it's not true that he doesn't slow down. If he moved at 99% speed while holding his power he'd be stronger than now, actually.
His mobility move is also not like Dracula's or Spirits, as the latter two are slowed down only very shortly or not at all after using their movement, while Vecna loses a lot of distance after coming out of the Upside Down. Plus it has a 35 second cooldown.
Vecna certainly has quite a bit of counterplay.
The bigger difference, is that Vecna basically has no cooldown on his attack. So while Nurse can readjust, she needs to charge first and then she gets fatique and has to wait to get 2 charges. In the same amount of time, Vecna can use his attack 6 times.
And while its true that a good Nurse can basically guarantee a hit, so can a good Vecna. If you are in the center of a vine attack, there is no dodging it.
And Vecna must be bugged then with his movementspeed, because I had Vecna's still gaining distance on me while charging their Vine Attack, and while playing around, I also didnt lose any distance. Which could have been fixed with the latest hotfix, I wouldnt know as I dont play DBD as commonly anymore, since they still didnt punish tunnelling at 5 gens or long term slugging despite that being promised almost 2 years ago.
And his mobility is like them, because he moves much faster. It's different in the sense that Vecna can guarantee a hit with his ability by being under someone, and its very easy to get under someone when you can see them. It's also different in that Vecna does not have a lullaby or terror radius, unlike Dracula and Spirit.
So if they fixed his movementspeed after the hotfix, sure, he would have a bit more counterplay (which, still mainly is shift+w btw, which was pretty much the biggest point at the end of the comment, shift+w is boring counterplay). But then there is still the issue that survivors cannot see where Vecna is aiming, and the issue that the clock mechanic doesnt exactly do much (2 people dont really speed it up, could also have been bugged, but I timed it. While 1 survivor should reduce the 4 minute timer to 27-ish seconds, 2 survivors should drop it to 20 seconds, but I got 26 seconds. So even if they fixed it, it is still terrible design, because he gets another guaranteed minute afterwards and can restart it within 3-5 seconds afterwards).
All in all, he needs a fix. And imo, just surrounding the clock:
1. Phase 2 should take as long as phase 1.
2. 1 survivor listening speeds it up from 1 minute per survivor to 40 seconds per survivor, 2 speed it up to 20 seconds per survivor, 3 speeds it up to 10 seconds per survivor and 4 gets it to 5 seconds per survivor (which is gonna be rare since 1 is always getting chased).
3. listening to the clock reduces your tokens by 1 for listening in and by 2 if you help finish the interaction.
4. Getting hooked reduces your tokens by 2, but makes 1 permanent token.
5. Vecna can damage you even outside the clock timer if he gets you to 4 charges.
6. The clock timer will start every 2 minutes, each vine attack that connects reduces it by 60 seconds per survivor hit.
7. Getting unhooked gives you a 1 minute immunity to token gain.
8. Hooking a survivor with 4 tokens will start/reset the clock and double the time for phase 1.
That should create a better back and forth between survivors, gives Vecna more lethality if he happens to miss the wrong survivor. The current clock mechanic just feels useless due to how easy it is to trigger and gives a guaranteed minute. Just the ability to reduce phase 2 by interacting with the clocks makes it not a guaranteed minute, but being able to trigger it with any 2 vine hits also means you can spread out. -
Dead Hard isnt the best exhaustion perk. Sprint Burst has been, and always will be, the best exhaustion perk.
The main reason why DH is being ran? Just look at all those players and see the most common perk next to DH. It's DS. Which is because tunnelling is so common.
Once tunnelling becomes less common, DH will become less common. Will it completely vanish? No, but once tunnelling will vanish, Overcome is likely to reappear more often. Overcome isnt used a lot anymore because of tunnelling too.
As for the best exhaustion perk right now? It's Lithe, no question. It puts an obstacle between you and the killer, then gives you a 3 second haste. Sprintburst can do the same if you have it on 99.9% recovery (fast vaulting isnt running, so it recovers exhaustion, with 99.9% recovery, you can vault and trigger Sprintburst directly after the animation finishes), but the main problem with Sprintburst right now is Kaneki. -
@Massquwatt said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4051556#Comment_4051556
That sounds like an incredible amount of effort and luck to make happen and at that point you're just better off playing Plague since it only requires 10% of the effort with real dangers of cleansing. I think they need to rework Krasue's infection mechanic slightly to make it more dangerous outside of chase.
It is, but if you can pull it off, there is no counterplay, its just a slugfest.
-
@Skillfulstone said:
Please, let's not have a repeat of the Fog Vials, and let's wait a few weeks to a month for people to adjust to the counterplay (and for content creators to make tutorials) before sending something to the Shadow Realm within days because it's not obvious and easy to play around something.
It should be obvious, if there is not a single indication on how to dodge it after a PTB and 5 days, its bad design.
Easy? sure, it doesnt need to be easy. Nurse isnt easy to dodge, but Nurse is forced to blink in straight lines. She cant move her blink on top of you and expect to get a hit unless she's very close, at which point, you would probably get hit by any decently aimed blink. Nurse also gets slowed down while she charges her attack.
With The First? He has a blink-like attack that's roughly the same reach as a mid-charge Nurse blink. He doesnt get slowed down while power holding (the least that should happen is a 10% reduction in speed when he's holding so that he loses distance by being 99%). He has a mobility move that's like Spirit and Dracula, but he can see people and damage them with it, no lullaby while Drac and Spirit do have lullabies.
Other than good ol' shift+W, there is no realistic counterplay. And I think everyone agrees that shift+W being the main counter to a 110% killer is boring -
@Ragna_Rock said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4051605#Comment_4051605
Ok lets read the literal next sentence you make.
"Remove the stagger delay completely or give it another second of haste from 3 to 4 seconds" hmmm wonder why people reacted negatively🤔
If the perk is bugged you should post evidence in the bug reporting section of the forums and ask for a fix, not ask for a compensation buff in exchange.
Even with 1 extra second, its bad. There are barely any triggers. In fact, Smash Hit got 1 extra second, because you lost 0.5 seconds to the pallet drop animation. And since it was hard to trigger, it was even reduced in cooldown.
Balanced Landing could have 1 more second or have it's stagger removed completely, and it would still be harder to trigger than Smash Hit. -
@terumisan said:
the reason why the stagger id even there is because it creates infinites. i remember huntress getting destroyed on old haddonfield
That stagger created infinites before it was implemented into the exhaustion effect. Aka, you had the stagger reduction ALWAYS, and the haste only once you lost exhaustion. Now you only have stagger reduction if you dont have exhaustion.
So it no longer creates infinites. And IMO, it could also be removed. Balanced Landing is infamous for being the worst exhaustion perk due to many maps not even having triggers, and those that have, have very mediocre ones -
@CatFish said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/463526/i-just-want-more-blight-and-nurse-posts
He incredibly fun and unique. Survivors are playing with shift w+predrop, and when a killer appears and makes them think, they start to get angry.
Just stop in the middle of a loop, suddenly run into an open field, and instead of dropping a palette, run at the killer. He creates so many rewarding mindgame situations, I love playing against him, he really forces you to play outside the boxHe is fun and unique to play as*, he is unique to play against, but not fun.
"and makes them think" yet killers are made to think as little as possible -
@MechWarrior3 said:
I strongly disagree. I rarely win with him. His vines are pretty hard for me to hit personally even when I have aura. Sometimes I am too close when aiming and sometimes its just too far away. If they take away his "spam" then instead of his power hurting you after 3 or 4 hits it will need to hit you on each hit…Do you want that?
Yes, because then there is more time to gain proper distance. Especially if those hits take about 1.5x as long as his current 3-4 hits
-
@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4043922#Comment_4043922
Since you work in IT, lets start there. If you have an issue that is taking time to fix, and one person messages or emails you with information that can fix the problem, thats great, right? Even if they're not giving you the solution, they might be helping you isolate its cause. But instead of seeing that message, you have to go through thousands of
GOOGLE WONT WORK FIX NOW,maybe a few long winded rant sessions about how they need the situation resolved by 2pm or it'll cost them a major client, and other unconstructive junk pours in emphasizing urgency over anything remotely helpful, does that not clog up the pipeline? hell, its literally comparable to spam mail vs important messages, and the entire reason why we have filters for those in the first place.I feel like you're operating under the assumption I'm somehow defending BHVR's handling of feedback, which I have actually been vocal about on a few occasions over the years. Hell, the pallets comments in the livechat were a great example of how they tried to play off feedback as being vapid when it was about a very hot topic in the game at the time. I'm saying that the more you clog up feedback channels with insipid whining, the more you give them excuse to ignore you. Your militant perspective has had successes in the past with the game, and very rarely have they been positive for the game's health as a result. I talk about how they monkey paw user feedback constantly by not understanding what its supposed to mean, and just going off of their kneejerk reaction to it. When entire killers, who are unique across the entire roster (though some have obnoxiously copied aspects) are in the balance, your choices have a direct impact on a significant portion of the customer base. That means that regardless of how important small changes are, their further reaching consequences are equally-if-not-more important to consider, which is why these decisions should be made on actual feedback, and not just generalized dissatisfaction.
I'm saying you're literally giving them the fuel and excuses to do exactly what you accuse them of. If the only feedback they get is constructive, it becomes significantly harder to ignore. And since there is no transparency on how these things are handled internally past things like the dev streams and the product that sees at least a PTB, that fact is crucial to actually having your voice heard and not giving plausable deniability to it when its actually sound advice.
Edit: in regards to when it does work, I'd like you to equally consider when it doesn't. Note how your examples are about bugs and not balance. That in itself makes them much more clearly identifiable and less subjective. Meanwhile CoH stayed overtuned for a very long time, Overbrine actually saw the light of day and stuck around for far too long, and MFT eventually got nerfed by the same arguments that were being presented in its beta. The constant is that we can't control how BHVR takes our suggestions or even evidence, but if the bulk of it is just focused on general dissatisfaction, that prioritizes speed over quality in a reaction, and is why we have so much useless content in the game from items to perks to addons to whole characters. We want less digital garbage in our game, not more, and if you are willing to dumpster things without even trying reasonable solutions, you're kinda robbing people of content they likely paid for.
I was gone for a while, so it's a bit late of a reply.
But in short:
You can easily filter through messages, but if enough of those messages appear, it's something to worry about in general. Even if 40% of users say "X sucks", it should be the full time job of one of the analysts to find out why people think X sucks and do something to reduce why it sucks. It could be 100% fine and working as intended, users are not experiencing joy when seeing that thing. Unconstructive feedback might not help find the issue, but it SHOULD make it a higher priority because its mentioned more often.
It's the job of business analists and in this case also community managers, to convert those messages into a single ticket and adjust priority based on how common the complaint is, how severe the reaction is to the players and what the effect is. Constructive feedback, normally speaking, will be summarized if it actually deconstructs on why, and will be added to the ticket if multiple people have similar feedback. But that requires people reading the feedback at all. Right now, it just feels like every single feedback gets summarized into a very generic sentence, and those sentences are summarized into a single ticket, while using chatGPT or something to summarize it. Which means that common complaints will have bigger impact than detailed complaints, where back in the day, it was the other way around.
Pain Res these days is a perfect example of it. It's TOO effective on mobility killers. Especially since they improved scourge hook spawns (prior to that, you pretty much required Agitation if you wanted consistent value, nowadays, no matter where you down someone, unless its Midwich, you can basically guarantee value). It has issues. It is known that it has issues specifically on mobility killers and it's only working on normal speed killers if they tunnel (which, they couldnt rely on as much if Pain Res would disable after 1 kill). There was a period before where Pain Res was too effective on mobility killers, 15% of people wrote feedback on why it was too effective (info on where the generator with the most progression is+15% regression applied+you could hook anyone to trigger it, meaning it was effectively free and could trigger it 12 times). You had 85% of people just spouting "pain res too stronk, plz nerf". Nowadays, I have seen up to 30% of posts explaining why pain res is a bit problematic (mobility killers can tunnel and still profit off Pain Res, especially thanks to DMS and Grim Embrace, even tho the perk was changed to make tunnelling less effective), and that 2 simple changes (mainly disabling it after 1 kill) can make the perk 1000x more fun to face.
As for my "militant" perspective. No, I have been constructive, even for the majority of the period when constructive stopped having an impact. They have shown that the past 2 years, constructive feedback doesnt matter. I've seen essays on why something doesnt work, and what would be changed to make it work in 2020 and 2025. In the 2020 version, you would maybe see a perk see a slight nerf in their power, but a huge buff in their utility, making it overall a big buff. In 2025? They just make big number bigger, see the bigger number didnt do much, make the number even bigger untill it does do something, then a new killer or perk comes by that actually offers utility in their power that has synergy with that perk and now the perk is busted. People love to hate on the old stance of "bhvr cant buff something without also slightly nerfing it", but that did grow consistency in balance.
And while that does lead to sudden changes that might not work, at least it leads to changes. We've been giving extremely constructive feedback on why RECOVERING WHILE CRAWLING, and CRAWLING FASTER should be basekit, aka effectively Tenacity basekit.. There has been reached a consensus that while some killers will struggle with that, the vast majority wouldnt even notice, because most killers do not need to slug. It would hard counter killers who slug early game (especially tournament nurses and blights), and hard counter slugging in the 2v1. Yet the moment it got implemented, 3 big name content creators claimed it was a BS change and got their communities to yell at BHVR. Despite their reasoning literally being "Why shouldnt I be able to slug survivors for 4 minutes?". 3 years of consistent constructive feedback vs 1 week of yelling. They have lost the right to constructive feedback by listening to people who just echo someone, without even considering the fact that further adjustments can be made (as an example, slugs get their aura revealed every 30 seconds). They decided to follow the screams, rather than years of consistent points.
So simply put, we(people who have been giving constructive feedback for years, but recently got denied because of vocal minorities) decided to scream the opposite, untill they actually have proven to listen to why something needs to change. It's part of the reason why my playtime went from 20 hours a week, to barely 20 hours a month(and that's only because of gamemodes). I would instantly jump back to 10-20 hours a week if they implement basekit anti-slug and improve basekit anti-tunnel, as they promised they would early 2025. Untill then, I will watch the playercount trend drop and only log on if I see a small spike because 2v8 or smth returned for 2 weeks. -
I mean, there are a lot of interactions that are basically useless untill you consider 1 aspect:
If the mushrooms only respawn when you lose your body, you can infect all 4 survivors once, force them to eat mushrooms, infect them again and now 3 of them are permanently broken. Infect the final one by turning into headform and hunt him down, and start slugging.
It would basically be like facing Demon Strike Oni the entire game. -
@Terror_Misu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4051380#Comment_4051380
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4051386#Comment_4051386
I believe it depends on the player survivor side. Some can juke him with ease, some say he's OP. Until a month has passed, don't beat yourself up over him. It'll even out. Promise :)
Also, he's high B/low A imo.
It depends more on the killer. I've faced 3 vecna's that barely got 4 hooks. Ive also faced vecna's that were absolutely impossible to dodge. You dont see where Vecna places a vine untill its too late to be able to dodge, so you guesstimate. Then you have his extra ability that guarantees a hit when you're below a survivor, which you can easily do as you're 2x as fast. It's wooshing sound is basically non-existant for survivors, and there isnt a lullaby attached to it.
And he isnt neccesarily too OP in the 1v1 as you can mindgame to dodge his vines, but any aura reading makes that basically free hits too.
His literal only counterplay is relying on shift+W because he is a 110 killer. -
@TheWheelOfCheese said:
That's because people are realizing he isn't as strong as he seems. Every killer release works this way: everyone cries that the newest killer is OP, survivors adapt, turns out everyone overestimated the killer's power. And sometimes BHVR nerfs anyway, because the squeaky wheel gets the grease.
He's a pub stomper. Coordinated teams will not have a problem with him unless they are awful at juking.
With 99% of games being public, that is a problem. And Vecna has problems beyond that. Guaranteed hits. Inconsistent hitboxes on top of that. A clock mechanic that has no additional functionality (it doesnt matter if you get rid of it, he gets it back 5 seconds later).
As for fun? Guaranteed hits are never fun. -
The dude has guaranteed hits and slowdown. If you want bigger cooldowns to not be a thing, then hitboxes need to be smaller. Why does he get 5 minutes of power always damaging? Why does interacting with the clocks still give him about a minute and a half worth of power? And when its gone, why does he only need 1-2 hits to get back into that power again?
It's literally THE problem with Kaneki. I dont understand why they dont remove the clocks and just make it basekit functionality instead if it's that easy to trigger and interacting with it doesnt grant you anything to get rid of it. If it exists, it should have purpose. The clock mechanic does not have purpose right now -
@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4043493#Comment_4043493
As someone who has created a LOT of constructive feedback. It doesnt help.Thats not how feedback works. You have no idea if your ideas might have led to multiple hour long internal debates on whether it would work or not, or if they were just discarded as complaining before even being read. That's my point. The best thing you can do when providing feedback is to make it as constructive and open ended as possible, and reverting to petulant complaining is a surefire way to get it discarded. In a system where the only real possible feedback would be getting your way and seeing your changes ingame, I don't understand why this is such a hard concept to grasp.
Dude, I work in IT. I deal with tickets. I know the process. I've written literal essays on why things are too strong/too weak, giving videos, pictures, given examples, given tweaks in numbers that could be implemented within 1 update just to see if it has impact or not. 2 years ago, that would have 100% lead to change. Not neccesarily the suggested change, but change nonetheless to the killer. All because people who have 400+ hours into a specific killer giving feedback on why things do and dont work. And some of the changes were better, other changes made things worse and were altered relatively quickly again.
The past 1.5 years? The only times posts would lead to change, is if they reached live streams or twitter outrage. That alone is terrible indication.
My guess? Oh, yknow, the 95 people that were laid off about 2 years ago, mainly marketing, which includes community managers and mods that would actually read posts on here and create tickets to send them to the proper places. Not saying the current mods and managers aren't doing so, but 100% there are less people being able to do so, so constructive feedback simply isnt good enough anymore. It has to go semi-viral before it's noticed, which is why yelling works better than feedback right now.
I am not pointing at any specific part of the feedback process being at fault, but it's been broken. I've reported bugs the way I do at my own job, which includes how to repeat it, when I first noticed it, when I confirmed it, everything involved with it and even guesses what the culprit could be based on testing. And being very honest, I know for a fact the people I work with work less hard than the devs at bhvr, because we have 1/5th the amount of people, but the size of our releases are 1/10th of BHVR. Yet, if anyone sends in a report, that bug is fixed within the next year, even if it's just a typo somewhere. I've seen bigger bugs go unfixed for the past 1.5 years that would usually be fixed within 3 months. Once again, all because the feedback system currently doesnt work as it should. So despite creating a ticket the way I do at work so that it can go to a program like Jira pretty much copy-pasted, with screenshots, with details, it's odd that it doesnt get fixed or killswitched untill enough people find out to actually abuse it, people yell on live streams and twitter because now it's negatively affecting their games.
Remember the OoO bug where your aura reveal to your teammates would DC your teammates? I reported that 3 weeks before it got viral, in that same period of time, DC penalties were disabled. When it got viral, OoO got killswtiched and it was fixed 1 week later with a hotfix. Implying they were working on a ticket before it got viral and just using as muiive data to gather info on where it goes wrong. Remember the Streetwise bug? That was known and reported on the PTB feedback page, 6 weeks prior to release. Then it got send to live, 3 days later, it went viral. 2 days after that, it got killswitched and didnt get fixed for about a month. Implying that they were unaware of the bug at all, because they could have killswitched it going live, simply saying it was temporarily bugged. THAT is the difference these days. I dont know why that is such a hard concept to grasp. -
@Gardhome said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4043557#Comment_4043557
Head On maybe not strong but incredibly annoying perk so it should transform to something different
So, Grim Embrace, DMS, Pain Res nerf too? They are only "strong" on high mobility killers, other than that they are mainly annoying. Does that mean they should be transformed into something different?
Head-On isnt annoying, just learn the mechanics of it:
1. If someone has head-on, try to interact with the locker ASAP. The biggest mistake killers make with head-on is seeing a survivor enter a locker and then try to mindgame the head-on trigger, when they could have simply grabbed them from the locker. (again, it takes 2.5 seconds to charge up)
2. If multiple people have head-on, they 100% are trying to bait you into areas with lots of lockers. Guess what they wont do? Gens. So go after survivors who do gens. The more attention you give them, the more people can progress gens.
3. If they run head-on and have a flashbang, dont chase them after hook, they will spend 60 seconds trying to get your attention to grab them from a locker for DS.
Counterplay to head-on players is super easy, just read what the perk can and cant do. -
@Senaxu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4043532#Comment_4043532
Dead by Daylight now runs on Unreal Engine 5. UE5 provides solid tooling for server authority and prediction, for example the Gameplay Ability System. Those let you move critical logic to the server and verify client requests. Paired with a properly tuned EAC, that can be real protection.
In DBD that layer is basically missing. The server accepts far too much from the client, so talking about IP or hardware bans is like buying fuel for a race car that has no wheels or engine.
Right now there is effectively no meaningful protection, and nothing suggests that will change soon. The report flow is theater: submit a ticket and a clip, hope a human watches it, maybe you get a ban.
If full server authority is “too expensive,” then at least meet players halfway: simplify reporting and ship a replay system so we can review all POVs after a match. That alone would catch a lot, and it does not require wizardry.
Until those basics exist, talk of hardware bans or kernel-level anti-cheat is just a wet dream. This is a PvP game with MMR in year eight; start with server validation, then build up.
I think I discussed security with you before. You think that the hackers didnt datamine UE5's tooling yet? There was a period of time after UE5 where there were effectively no cheaters. That was UE5's relatively unknown system on top of EAC working. But the base tooling isnt hard to crack. All you need is a pirated version to be able to reverse engineer any API verifications and get all built-in verifications, and after that you can either design or brute force your way through the verification system. And yes, BHVR can and does tweak it every single time. Which is why there are weeks/months with basically 0 cheaters, and why there are weeks/months with too many cheaters.
As for a replay system, that's hard to program in, its cheaper and faster to make DBD 2 with a replay system in play, than it is to place one internally. You, once again, think too simply on how things work. So yes, it would literally require wizardry to expect a replay system within 5 years time in current DBD, I would be surprised if they can pull that off, unless they started working on one in 2021. If DBD development stops right now and they spend the next 3 years full-time on rebuilding DBD, you would have DBD with a replay system no problem. But even a replay system wont really catch much
As for kernel-level anti-cheat, that's also in play, on Steam, and Steam only limits the EAC kernel level to the Steam folders without invading your privacy, unlike Riot, and only triggers when it's needed which is dictated by the developers of DBD in this case. So they can run it prior to every game, when you load up the game and after every X minutes. It's why most cheaters are on Epic nowadays, where prior to the Steam EAC kernel update it was mixed. Like, have you not noticed that?
As for the MMR system, it doesnt even matter for 95% of the players. In fact, generally speaking, killer mains face survivors that are out of their league because killer MMR is easy to gain, where survivor MMR is hard to gain consistently. Survivors in high MMR absolutely earned their spot, where easily 85% of killers in high MMR are questionably there. There are also roughly an equal amount of killers in high MMR as survivors in high MMR. Don't you think that as odd? You would expect about 3.5 survivors in high MMR for every killer in high MMR. -
@jmwjmw27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4040109#Comment_4040109
Why is tunneling necessarily playing like an ass? The killer's job is to kill you. Are survivors ######### for playing as optimally as possible too?
I don't understand your point of view that if someone wants to win, they should be picking the strongest stuff, but also if a killer tunnels, they are being an ass.
Also the conversation we had when you replied to me wasn't about your suggestion to make DS basekit and subsequent killer buffs. It was a side conversation that started when jesterkind asked me why a weak killer would care if 4 survivors ran DS, which is how we came to the topic of "weak killers cannot afford to not tunnel in the current state of the game". I actually wouldn't mind making it basekit if it means weaker killers like trapper got buffed across the board.
You play like an ass because you rush someone out. Someone who plays the game for the sake of fun. There's 4 survivors, spending all your time on 1 survivor against a SWF is a waste of your time. You would WANT to chase other survivors.
As for your tournament argument, doesnt matter. Tournaments have limitations. Tournaments have certain addons banned. Items are limited to 1 or 2 (I think its 1 toolbox, 1 medkit and 2 flashlights). Survivors cant have the same perk twice (BT used to be the exception untill it was made basekit). Tournaments have certain offerings banned. If tournaments had unlimited access to everything, you wouldnt want to tunnel 1 person out either because that will cost more time since everyone is going to be running DS, DH and Guardian. You would actually have to spend more time chasing that survivor than you would chasing a new survivor.
And survivors cannot play as optimally as possible, unless they are a tournament SWF. And you do not face tournament SWF's regularly. Maybe once every 100 games unless you're literally in the top 0.01% of killer MMR (which I doubt, considering you tunnel at 5 gens).
So yes, optimally speaking, 1-2-1-3-1 (only 5 hooks btw, not 8. Reread my post, there is 4x survivor 1, and 0x survivor 4. So maybe, just maybe, the 8th hook was meant for survivor 4 and I mistyped). Getting to the 3v1 asap is the most optimal, but going 1-1-1-2-2 is going to lose you 5 gens against any competent SWF. 1-2-1-3-1 will force survivor 4 to get of gens too, where 1-2-1-2-1 keeps survivor 4 on gens at all time. Hence, 1-2-1-3-1 being the most optimal hooks. Even 1-2-1-1 is less optimal, because it requires you to either proxy-camp and then tunnel through basekit BT and possibly DS while survivor 3 and 4 can sit on gens quite comfortably. 1-2-1-1 is only most optimal if there is a deadzone already. 1-1-1 is only most optimal if survivors dont get the oppertunity to do gens. Which is why perks or abilities that benefit the 1-1-1 situation should get nerfed.
I generally do 1-2-3-1-2-1 in my games as killer, rarely use meta perks (maybe 1 depending on my build) and I still win the vast majority of my games. It's rare for me to see more than 2 survivors escape, it's especially rare if 4 survivors do. And when 4 survivors do escape, you can bet your ass it was my fault. I could fix that fault by hardcore slugging and tunnelling from that point on, but then I am cheesing and not improving. Why would I cheese a win for the sake of a win, when I can improve and win much more easily next time?
Most killers are entitled to winning to a point where they care more about a win and believe they shouldnt need to improve to win more often. Survivors have actively improved over the years to deal with cheese mechanics, because they were forced to. They dont have a cheesy way to win games ever since hatch got reworked. -
Nah, Hag should remain 4.4, she can be insanely strong. Instead, give her the ability with cooldown to teleport to a generator. She needs cross-map mobility to lead survivors into her web, she doesnt need an increase in speed mid-chase.
Blight doesnt really need any addon buffs, a lot of his addons are good, they are just not better than his best.
Trapper shouldnt start with that many traps, unless there is a cooldown on trap resets. Mainly due to basement plays otherwise being free kills.
Slugged survivors should definitely be able to reveal ghostface, slugging should not get any buffs, ever.
Nemesis doesnt need an extra zombie, but his zombies should respawn elsewhere if they haven't targetted a survivor for 50 seconds.
Head-on would become useless, it's already a perk that's hard to trigger a lot consecutively (it requires 3 seconds inside a locker before it activates)
Hope would become too strong. You've seen what 3% Made For This could do, and that was only while survivors were injured. -
@Leon_van_Straken said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4043501#Comment_4043501
Or they should give Survivors the token that their Aura is being red like they got it in 2v8 althroug… most people don´t use this information at all.
Oh yeah, that is the "revealed mechanic" I was talking about. But it would be too strong if done from the start. Hence why "once they have been hooked". I also generally feel like aura perks, especially killer ones, do need cooldowns on their aura triggers. And have their aura reads being bound to location rather than to the killer (I loved Nowhere to Hide originally, because it only revealed aura's surrounding the gen, I dont know why they didnt keep that).
-
@Leon_van_Straken said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4043493#Comment_4043493
Oh I know what you mean.
It is like Skull Merchant.
I am still standing on my opinion that after the 8 Gen Regression and that you couldn´t be scanned while working on a gen would have been enough. It was constructive feedback and would let her live.
Well the only thing we got were outcrys and she got nerfed out of existance and I think… that was the point were the crying about everything started. You can read this on this forum very often. "New Killer releases" Well give him Skull Merchant treatment.
Well, that, and a way to reduce the battery count by disabling the drones would have been healthy. Reducing the battery by 1 charge per hacked drone, but battery accumulation overall being higher than +1 per drone. Then players had actual reasons to hack drones, because the way the battery works now, it was better to get exposed to get rid of charges than it was to keep battery charges low. Which is a really dumb way to get rid of something you can get rid of.
That's like saying you can only remove a pig mask after a generator has been fixed.
And its funny, because it used to be Freddy treatment. And I would say SM has technically been left in a better state than Freddy was after his massive nerf. Like, I would consider SM C tier. Freddy after his nerf actually got F tier. I guess the difference is that Freddy didnt neccesarily deserve that treatment, while SM kinda did (it was 4 months of people having to deal with 2 hour games). And Kaneki deserves to be gutted, which is a shame. Even Krasue got released in a slightly weaker state than Kaneki, was annoying to deal with, then she got adjusted 3x. Kaneki only really got adjusted once and is still stronger than PTB Krasue. -
@BongoBoys said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4043491#Comment_4043491
Agreed the PTB should just be a game mode or something everyone can test
I dont agree with the PTB itself being a gamemode that everyone can play on, but they should have a beta mode to test out idea's they work on iteratively. The PTB always has been meant to be something only a portion of players have access to, because it's a middle step between going from like 10-20 playtesters, to 5000-10000 playtesters, to 5 million players.
Like, it makes a lot more sense for perk changes or gamemechanics to get a beta gamemode before they even get added into a PTB.
They could reintroduce The Teacher as a killer that is the only killer available in that gamemode if they ever have a new killer ability they want to test out with only hitboxes and basic grey textures as to not give away what kind of killer it would/could be. This killer could also have multiple unique perks and addons that dont appear in the bloodweb.
They could introduce a survivor who has multiple unique perks that dont appear in the bloodweb, but only their inventory, to test out new perks.
Any new interactables on the map? Can be introduced on a very generic textureless objects.
It's not too difficult to implement that as a gamemode, it would give a ton of design feedback and mechanics that they might not implement now, but shelf for later. -
There were always players like that, but the concentration is higher because players who didnt play like that generally have left.
People who hate playing against kaneki wont play kaneki. People who love playing as kaneki dont play survivor a lot.
As in the case of tunnelling and slugging, that's a whole different discussion. IMO, they should have implemented the anti-tunnel/anti-slug patch for survivors as is with the first implementation, with adjustments to numbers and an MMR reset.
If killers claim they HAVE to tunnel and slug while playing full meta perks to win games, they logically are against players who are out of their league. Which is because they tunnel, slug and run full meta perks.
An MMR reset after a big basekit change should legit work most things out on their own.
Personally, the MMR point system needs a rework on top of a reset:
The amount of non-consecutive hookstates should be a multiplier to positive killer MMR.
The amount of consecutive hookstates should be a division to positive killer MMR.
The total amount of hooks should be an additive to killer MMR(+0.1 per hook action, including cages).
Kills should be a flat +1 MMR.
Generic mori's should count as +1.5 MMR, special mori's/deaths should depend on the killer (I can see a pig headpop count as +2 MMR since they are hard to pull off, but Vecna's special mori shouldnt be more than +1.5 as it's the same requirement as a normal mori)
Bleedouts should count as -1 MMR (if you have to rely on slugging that much, you're in the wrong bracket)
Escapes should be a flat -2 MMR.
Hatch escapes should be -1 MMR if the hatch is reopened with a key, otherwise 0 MMR.
Negative and positive MMR shouldnt be added to each other untill other calculations are finished.
For survivors:
If your hooks are consecutive, it should apply a division on negative survivor MMR (to not punish a survivor's mmr for getting tunnelled out early on).
Each generator finished while you're alive should count as a flat +0.5 MMR.
Each gate being opened while you're alive should count as a flat +0.5 MMR.
Chase time should adjust a multiplier to positive survivor MMR compared to other survivors (aka, if you get chased 3x as long as the average, you should get a 1.3x multiplier, if you chase 2x shorter than average, you should get a 0.8x multiplier).
Bleedouts should count as +0.5 MMR (you did prevent a sacrifice or a mori, somehow)
Hatch escapes with key should count as +1 MMR
Hatch escapes should count as +0.5 MMR
Gate escapes should count as a flat +2 escape
Sacrifice should count as a flat -1 MMR
Being the first sacrificed should count as a flat -1.5 MMR
Being the last person to be sacrificed should count as -0.5 MMR
Getting mori'd at any point should count as -1.5 MMR
Getting special mori'd at any point should also depend on the mori (a pig headpop should be about -3 MMR, Vecna's special mori should be -2 MMR).
Time spend alive before death should adjust an inverse multiplier on negative survivor MMR. Being a 0.5x multiplier if you escaped through any means, and a 1x multiplier if you die when all gens are completed. (Meaning it's always more than 1x if you died with any gens remaining)
Total survivors alive other than you at the point of your escape should be an addition to the multiplier of positive survivor MMR. (so if you have a 0.8 multiplier due to chasetime, but all survivors escape, you get a 1.1x multiplier to positive survivor MMR).
This MMR system is more punishing to killers and more rewarding for survivors. But considering the killrate is being aimed to be 60-65%, this should be a system that works. It means you could gain MMR if you "lose", it also means you could lose MMR if you "win", on both sides. Which doesnt sound like that should work, but since DBD's MMR is supposed to prevent matching up casual players from competitive players, this should be much more effective at doing so.