Deadeye
Deadeye
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Again as said in many other threads:
It is not the lunge, it is the HITBOX that looks wacky, as he has the shortest weapon in the game. Even hag has a longer weapon than Freddy. If the lunge would look strange, it would look the same "strange" on Legion and Blight for example.
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######### is wrong with the file upload? why are videos not allowed and why are gifs never working properly?
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@indieeden7 said:
The crows were changed not that long ago, didn't you notice?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/O951ZCZ8QY03/7an81t0zk0m51.png
I really didn't noitice o.O
at least I still don't like the wings and animation, I guess that's why I didn't notice
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@skylerbound said:
Quinten’s face and hair. That is all. Also maybe a new outfit
Good point. They even announced it like a year ago? XD
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In total I'm totally fine with the game. It has it's flaws which are constantly worked on. My only problem I noticed recently is roughly half of the community. At least in game. Which turned into a big whining symphony most of the time. It's either unnecessary toxic crap which tries to make the game experience horrible on purpose or the "genrush" or "tunnel" etc accusations that are totally pointless. Just as examlpes.
A plain "gg" after the game, or not daring to think about good ol' "you got me there" / "I was like OOF" chat has become ultra rare. I'm already happy when a BS tunnel claim gets countered by his own teammate when I play killer or when I defend the killer against BS accusations returns a thx or something...
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#1 if you say that, you imply that people that can't win this game shouldn't play it, right? Which is wrong
#2 most people don't cheat because they want to win, but to have fun screwing others. Basically the same mindset (imo) like tbaggin/hook beating/etc players
Btw teleporting can also be a server issue. Had a wraith being stuck in the swing animation for 5 seconds, then I got downed somewhere where I was not before and the Wraith was also somewhere else, starting to look around where I got downed because apparently I didn't go down where he expected me. He didn't find me. This is rare but can happen and is often crap for both sides
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@DaKnight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1778055#Comment_1778055
Uhh, running the killer for 5 gens IS about doing as well as you can in the game. Then having the killer, who playing terribly, one-shot you with his/her speedboost into dying on your first hook? I despise the perk, and I almost never play survivor anyways.
"Just do every totem" isn't really a viable argument. There's plenty of maps, like Lery's, where you are never gonna find it. And people cleansing the obvious totems throughout the match just means it is going to spawn in the most hidden location possible.
It has the same problem of DS/Unbreakable. You are forced to play around it even though it might not exist.
It can also be stacked with outrageous builds. Ebony Mori / OP add-ons + NOED? Good luck. Oh, you made it to the endgame against that Iri head huntress and managed to dodge all 3 instadown hatchets cause she is bad? Boom here's some NOED, outplayed.
Though to be fair, NOED is usually telegraphed. Is the killer playing horrible? They probably have it.
Exactly. Entitlement. As I said. Deserve the escape.
How about being happy for the awesome chase you had? You prefer to declare the game as full dogshit just because you died to NOED? Not my style
"Plenty of maps" So far I know only Lery's and Midwhich that are really hard, that's it. Out of 30+ maps. Besides that, knowing where the totems are can be sufficient. There are some critical, which you might not find again, or near gates, that you should do. Just if the killer is really BAD (which is the main argument when people shoot against NOED) like the killer got 3 hooks so far or noone is on death hook, then you should just invest a bit time to find/do bones rather than spamming through gens.
"outrageous builds" do you really complain about NOED when an ebony mori is in play? I'd guess 95% of ebony games, NOED doesn't even activate... And still, then the problem is not NOED alone
"Is the killer playing horrible? They probably have it." First, this prediction I saw on so many streams, by chat or the streamer. And has a 50ish % accuracy. Which is basically random guessing. Second, if bad killers run NOED, check what perks they have. Low tier, random perks... they probably just started leveling up, are low ranks and not trained with that killer, therefore "bad". And they got not many other useful perks than NOED. Pretty much the above situation, where you should have plenty of time doing bones.
And regarding THAT specific last point: I hate how everyone says "bad killers don't deserve kills". I would bet half of the killers are learning, it is not like they actively decide to play like dogshit all the time. What the heck is the problem if a killer gets one due to NOED, after having a miserable game trying to learn the mechanic? It's not like every NOED gamer tries intentionally to piss off survivors, maybe everyone should start chilling a bit
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Most people complaining about NOED are imo lazy or entitled. Like "I looped the killer for 5 gens but it is me who dies to NOED" is the typical entitlement. There is always a chance to die at open gates, but the survivor feels entitled to escape because 'he did sooooo well'. I personally would feel great about a 5 gen run in the first place, and rather prefer to die than having my whole team die to NOED, then all my effort would be wasted. But still then, if I play 10 minutes of a great game, I would hesitate to declare that game as crap just for the last minute ending. Escaping is not everything in this game (same counts for killers btw)
And the "carries bad killers" argument is also kinda bad. If the survivors outplayed the killer that much, it should be no problem to do totems as well. The bigger problem would be on stronger killers, that manage to do a 2k until gates are powered, and THEN leaving almost 0 chance to the last 2 survivors for an escape, because there are not enough mates left to take care about gates, unhooks and NOED cleansing. But even in that scenario I would say gg killer for that regular 3 perk 2k, that got boosted to a 4k by NOED, which any other decent perk would probably have done anyway, if used during the trial and not only in endgame.
Most of the scenarios where I get hit by NOED I think "well, my fault, could have found it earlier"
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You can't turn it down because audio is quite an important factor in the game :P you can ask for a sound rework. But I like it as is
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My experience is more like you make the killer bring moris. No thanks
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It is not the lunge. The lunge is pretty much the same. It is model size and weapon size that makes it feel bad. Like there is a visual difference when you swing with a katana or some scissors attached to your fingers, but having the same range with both. There is nothing to fix on hitboxes, just server latency (which probably never gets fixed) you you need to stretch Freddy's arms for the hit
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@Boss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1768059#Comment_1768059
Sure, no problem. 👍️
Just know that this has been going on for days now, that i play other games as well, and that i don't have many hours available everyday.
Didn't get that. How is that related to what games you play? I just asked for your build at that point when you don't need any more answers
🤔?
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@Boss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1767865#Comment_1767865
If i have it on and they think i do so they give a 2nd option, that's fine, that means i already have their favorite.
If i have it on and they don't think i do so they give ANC, that's fine, that only confirms my option.
If i don't have it on and they think i do so they give a 2nd option, that's fine, because there's enough Perks i don't consider #1 anyway.
If i don't have it on and they don't think i do so they give ANC, that's fine, then i'd try it just like the others.
No one who answered so far is being useless, this thread has been quite useful to me.
Just if you think you got your final option, I would like to know the 3 perks you have so far. Pls @me cuz I don't know how regular I'll look by
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@Boss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1766067#Comment_1766067
I'm not as confident as you on that.
If i ask for 1 Perk and say i already have 3 others, and Nurse's is as important as you say, then they'd want to make sure to mention that one so that i do equip it.
At least, that's how i see it.
As I said, a poll would pretty much lead to a 100% if you remove the condition. How should someone make a good suggestion to your problem when he needs to expect to be not helpful at all, as Nurses is pretty much common sense? How lucky would someone be to give you that 4th placed perk?
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@HellDescent said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1765951#Comment_1765951
A guy with even a couple braincells would not be writing this
Regarding the braincells thing, I assume I agree :D based on the fact that OP had to be edited by a mod
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1765813#Comment_1765813
I think it's more the pallet into car loop, into house. That's kinda ridiculous and Killer's shouldn't be FORCED to instantly break every pallet they see.
I think the killer is not forced to kick EVERY pallet. There are just SOME which is totally fine. Besides the double pallet spawn which is apparently a glitch that can be fixed, I didn't see any problem in this video
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btw I dare tell you that I always take BW into consideration or am aware of the risk when I decide to open the gate early and the times I run into it without thinking about it I am like "damn, my fault"
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Ez to counter perk. Besides that, I see a lot of people starting to panic and laugh randomly when they run into it.
Even had some games as afk endgame Wraith with NOED + BW to jumpscare with out of nowhere OP pressure. A team was finally running with all 4 towards the gate, 2 of them dead harding into the warden and dying to EGC there. In chat we were all laughing together.
So to sum up: it is just your opinion
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@Boss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1765509#Comment_1765509
That'd be very nice of them, but i'd have to turn them down and say i'm not looking for such an answer.
Just wanna know people's best singular Perk on Wraith.
If they insist, they can always private-message me.
Well, if you do a poll, Nurses would probably get 100% when going for a "1-perk only build" alike. All the other answers are already "influenced" by the fact that you already got a build, so people assume you have Nurses already. Just saying
Assuming a perk build without planned synergy, I can list my top 4 perks, so you can only have 3 of them already:
- Nurses
- Surveillance
- MYC
- Sloppy
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But what if someone wants to know your build so he can bring in something that plays well with what you already have? No need to suggest 2 perks as synergy if you already got one of them
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If it was not that noticeable, I would wonder how so many people complained that hard about it, and if stuff happens like this
@MommyDeRose said:
As a survivor it felt blatantly broken and made tons of loops into borderline infinite and much much longer. It was extremely noticeable
or this
@GHOSTfaceP3 said:
Against good killers no but against average killers I’ve noticed a difference lol especially against bad killers I’ve noticed a huge difference 😂
I'm wondering if it is such a game changer if bloodlust stays. It basically gives a crutch to killers to have a slightly better time while they are apparently losing anyway.
You could argue that survivors could get a crutch for bad matchmaking as well, but at least for bloodlust I think that bad survivors against good killers won't even run into bloodlust very often. So most scenarios I can imagine so far, bloodlust doesn't do that much of a difference and the main argument against it, again, is entitlement. Or am I missing something rather than "when I'm better, I'm entitled to run this pallet forever
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@DreKShun said:
Some killers have so much pride that they will literally chase you for 3-5 gens non-stop. If you've done this before, tell me. Is it pride? Is it just tunnel-vision? Some will even face camp after finally hooking you.
If you do/have done this. Seriously, why?
I like how commiting to a chase is already called tunneling. Just throw in generic insults to say "I don't like your playstyle" even if it doesn't fit. Last option is always "tryhard" when everything else is obviously wrong...
The common reason is I guess tilting, and giving up on the match. I think pride is so massively wrong to assume... And besides that, I also saw on stream and did it myself while thinking "ok, game is lost, but that guy is good, I just commit and see if I can learn something, trying to pull some other mindgames once I understood what he is doing right." There you got 2 possible other and imo legit reasons for such a behavior. I mean, you never tbag an annoying killer to make him hook you so you can get out of the game you don't like to play? The killer can't get out of the game without eating a penalty.
Sorry if I am offensive, don't take it personally, I just hate it when people get one SINGLE information and think they understood down to the quantum mechannics of DBD. Like I hear so often for example "3500 hours nurse, and still so baaad". Exactly. 60-70% survivor main and almost no time put into nurse out of this 20+ killer roster, maybe validate again... Or someone getting hooked, seeing noone sitting on a gen and therefore killing themselves. This is a goddamn 10 second snippet you see there, you know nothing about which challenges the team is targeting, searching for totems for Inner Strength or whatever. There could be 3 gens on 80% right now! Or how often I got accused of being in SWF because I had a map for my Inner Strength so I don't need Det. Hunch, and some random brought a key. There are so many situations like that with bullshit conclusions... -
@seki23 said:
i dont get why people just dont level up free characters, it takes WAY MORE MUCH TIME getting shards than bloodpoints on free characters.
Because the grind is big enough and you need the BP on your main characters. Especially in the beginning, it is a nice help to get quicker to the builds you like to play without spreading your BP among 3 characters before you even get the chance to find the perks in your bloodweb, which is on top unlikely unless you max out the character for currently around 8 million BP
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@tj0108 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1761481#Comment_1761481
even if it’s a 1k, that doesn’t make it fair. why should that survibor be punished for the killer being trash? i’m not saying remove noed. i’m saying look into it.
Still a lot of counterplay, as I said. Plenty of time to cleanse NOED, either in the match or after it triggers. That was actually my main point. You can't claim that you don't have time to cleanse totems, when you say the killer is bad. It is not NOED that rewards the killer, it is the survivors that grant the kills
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If you speak about assisting bad killers, we are not speaking about fast paced red ranks. If at all, NOED is a problem on strong killers, like killing 1 or 2 before endgame and then easily slugging to 4k because there is no team left, once the first goes down to NOED. If the killer is bad, you have plenty of time during the match to do bones. People just seem to pick whatever argumentation fits best, not thinking about what they say at all.
Your example: A single hook after 5 gens? You have up to 7 hooks left across the team before someone dies. How that is not a reason to do bones to make sure you "win" is beyond my understanding. Also, your rant should end up in a 2k at most. And if there is only 1 guy on hook, knowing the killer got NOED, then it should simply be a 1k. The team could even search for the totem for up to 2 minutes AFTER it triggers, when this was your first hook. And if you didn't do bones, you should at least know about 1-2 totem spots you saw during the match, to keep the search short
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@BioX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1760012#Comment_1760012
its not just 3rd hook, its second hook, 1 hook is all that is needed and you are out of there.
No perks but mori is something I would still blame the killer for yes, because core gameplay is why playing without perks either side is possible, perks have little influence on stuff like mindgames so if a killer is decent enough, tunnel off the hook and you are out, thats it.
Ruin/Undying/Tinkere does not impress me.
Infinity T3 requires a rediculous amount of stalking so those games are just massively boring, might as well camp because all that is happening is survivors running away, finishing gens, then he gets T3, everyone gets tombstoned aaaand..yeah gg? no points for anyone.
And yeah I do hate what I could call...unoriginal builds, like playing against bots, like all people are the same and dont put an ounce of self into the matches, its kinda part of the generation though, those that go to streamers and youtubers to tell them exactly what to like and what not to like and what to use and what not to use rather then finding out for themselves.
But yeah, M&A on Deathslinger, Stridor on Spirit, infectiousfright on Oni, STBFL on Demogorgon, Pop on Freddy, Thana on Legion, Tinkerer on Blight, and the survivor meta on...well the survivors, just all sooooo boring and unoriginal.
A meme build is the opposite, No Mither and Self Care, that sorta thing, but plenty of perks can give great value without "winning" the game for you, personally I have all perks devided on all my survivors (with 2 and half survivor being perkless because there are not enough perks to fill it all up) and im having a great time.
Again core gameplay stays the same, I do fine without perks as well, but getting value out of a niche perk is just really fullfilling, actually pointing a killer the other way with the pebble, or tenacity'ing out the exit gate with the killer thinking they had plenty of time, or spies giving me info, or overcharge, you name it.
It is 1 hook. Or is a survivor dead on 2 hooks, because after that he is on death hook? You need to win 2 chases, that is what counts. A mori cuts off 33%, not 66%.
And to sum up: so you are not specifically blaming mori users, but everyone that tries to get an advantage with what he brings into the game? Then I don't get why you still play this game, because this is like 99,9% of all games. And 99.9% of all players. And I think it is simply wrong to say that everyone is weak and expect to play in a different way, just because you do fine without perks
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@BioX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1759965#Comment_1759965
idk, might as well call camping hard mode imo.
A killer has to hook you one time, then tunnel, and thats it, thats not really what I would call hard mode.
Now playing without perks, that is hard mode, and fun.
A killer bringing a mori...idk its like so pre-setup to be in your advantage, I never understand that sort of mindset myself.
I would call camping ez mode for the killer and boring mode for the survivors. And the tunnel thing you mention is exactly what I mean with killer playstyle. You don't have to do that when you bring a mori. And yes, playig without perks is also hard mode. But it is basically the same idea. Remove second chances with perks. Remove third hook by mori. Remove second health state with No mither. imo.
And there are also enough builds giving you a massive advantage. Would you blame a killer bringing no perks but mori? How about no mori but Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer? How about infinite T3 Myers? Or impossible skillcheck doc? Forever Freddy? I would even count silent bell Wraith to that list, regarding the results I get. Isn't that the same "mindset"? Btw, that also counts for the well known smolPP build, or the like 10-survivor perk-pool, that fills like 90% of all games. I guess if you don't run meme builds, you are regarded as tryhard. One's own tryhard build ofc is just to counter the sweaty opponents.
Again, that's just my opinion and feeling about the general community feedback. Just explaining why I feel different about moris
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@BioX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1759908#Comment_1759908
Eh, mori's are for the weak but whatever.
I do get the "not having time" argument, but sadly just being able to do the challenges is not going to bring you to the end either, you have to play a ton of matches alongside that anyway so in that sense it does not matter if it takes 8 instead of 3.
I know. But if you struggle to finish the challenges in the 2 or 3 weeks you get, then it is fine to get some push, so you at least get to rift 40/50/60 or whatever you need to get the cosmetics you want.
Btw I think the weaker part is the soft rinsed part of the community and the entitlement. For me, moris are hard mode, like bringing No Mither. I know it can suck and you just don't want to play hard mode. But hey, just hop onto the next game if you fail. Escaped enough mori games to know it is worth trying and a pretty rewarding feeling if you do so. The only thing which really sucks is when you are in an SWF and one of your mates has to wait and watch early. Besides that, for example mori off the hook is a killer "fault", not the mori fault. Same like camping or hard tunneling. Not the mori to blame. imo
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@BioX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1759869#Comment_1759869
yes and did you comprehend what my response was?
Its not a problem that you dont 4k every match, so the challenge takes a few more matches then 3...who cares? you enjoy playing I hope otherwise why bother at all.
Ok, maybe then you didn't get the OP. I'm fine with bringing a mori and I guess OP does enjoy the game, but if it takes 8 matches instead of 3 and you don't play every day, like it is expected to be able to finish the rift, that indeed it is a problem when you want some progress on the rift. But not a problem like "not enjoying the game if I don't 4k", just like "I'm not that good so the challenge will take forever, or I just get some offering help"
OP didn't even say how he uses it. You can also bring the mori as backup, which is what I do when I bring moris. He didn't say "I mori off the first hook". But if everyone just equals mori to no fun by default, I guess that's a POV that is not understandable to everyone
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@BioX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1759529#Comment_1759529
and nobody asks that you do? I mean if it takes idk 8 matches instead of 3, that would be a problem? if you dont enjoy playing the game idk what you are doing anyway.
Did you read to what post that was a response to? I don't expect 4k every match
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@ALostPuppy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1759544#Comment_1759544
Why shouldn't he expect to get a 4k every game? What's wrong with wanting to win every match? Some people are very competitive and that's what's fun to them so what's wrong with having high expectations of yourself?
The game should on average end on a 2k. If you expect a 4k, you either expect to be a god tier killer or you expect all survivors to not escape on average. First one might be ok, although also a bit... well, let's leave it. The second is simply wrong and I have the impression, most people think they are god tier and deserve the 4k while not really being able to evaluate their own skills. Not accusing anyone here though. But if someone expects the game to offer a regular 4k without really playing massively, I'm pretty sure they would be wondering about the matches, when they actually consistently faced "real" deserved red rank teams.
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@Xbob42 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1759544#Comment_1759544
If you're trying to 4k for a challenge like this, it stands to reason you'd be using a good killer and good perks. It should not be terribly hard for decent killers to get 4k on the regular because you're being matched against mostly random survivors, who are extremely poor at teamwork even at red ranks.
Exactly. For decent killers. There are so called "survivor mains" out there that want to progress the rift as well, trying some killer challenges. Or probably new players that don't have such an overload of hours to be decent yet. Or simply learn slowly. Wanna blame anyone for any of these reasons? Why? Also, not everyone has every killer and every good perk unlocked on each killer to get to the best possible build to finish whatever challenge.
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@Xbob42 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1759529#Comment_1759529
Frankly I'd work on that before worrying about challenges.
So you are one of the guys expecting 4k every game? That should not be the case. I feel sorry for the survivors that face you.
Besides that, I think there is totally no reason to say someone should ignore the challenges because of his skill level. That's everyone's own decision.
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@Ace_Ventura said:
I just did 3 killer matches and killed them all.
Pretty simple. Why over complicate?
Not everyone 4k's consistently
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@Ace_Ventura @FFirebrandd On top of the "maths", I think it will be never the new meta to run DS + PT :P not even if it was bugged like in OP expected it
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@TWiXT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1755380#Comment_1755380
it wouldn't do more than PGTW... not by a long shot.
Even with no cooldown, you would have to down 3 survivors within the same range of a generator to equal 24% damage, whereas simply hooking one survivor guarantees 25% damage to a generator of your choosing with PGTW. Basically, downing and hooking all 3 survivors, regardless of what range they are from a generator with whatever attack you have available (m1, or power) would grant you 75% damage that could be divided between 3 generators anywhere on the map. Meanwhile Surge does 1% less damage overall as a reward for downing those 3 same survivors. The only way this could ever be considered effective is in a 3 gen situation where all 3 gens get hit with Surge for each of the 3 survivors you down, and you still only do 24% damage to each gen, at which point, you have 3 survivors down and 1 running around, are you seriously going to start hooking survivors in that situation? If that were me, I'd just chase and down the 4th while hoping none of the others have Unbreakable, and couldn't care less about Surge doing any more damage because I'm obviously steamrolling their team.
Well, I discussed about that for 2 pages now. The thing about Surge is that you don't have to kick the generator, which is in general a huge time waste. But I'm not gonna repeat all of that. Same for the "the game is over" argument, with which this discussion started between me and TAG
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I think it totally depends on each individual's performance. If you struggled to escape the killer and just got away through hatch, I would consider it as a loss. From killer side, if that one is the only one escaping, I would regard it as a "get you next time, yellow-belly" -ish cliffhanger.
If you manage to run the killer for 5 gens, get hit by NOED and the team doesn't manage to rescue you and open gates in time, I would regard it as a win for that survivor and even a loss with a 4k for the killer, if he did not get more than 3 hooks until endgame. The score looks different, but if you win a soccer game 3:2 by 3 own goals, I wouldn't feel very confident with that.
If you beat the S* out of the team and slug them twice due to bad plays and they get up twice with Unbreakable, hit you with multiple DS and BT and get 0 kills with 8 hooks while the gens got done with Prove Thyself and 3 BNPs, then I would feel robbed in the first place, but also know that they won't get that lucky the next time
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1755229#Comment_1755229
Second, I don't even get your argumentation. If you think, a game is done with a triple down, what do you need the cooldown removal for?
For the scenarios where you are denied a proper Surge because you were a few seconds too inefficient with your chase.
The comparison I disagree again. The main benefit of Surge is that...
I absolutelt understand the main benefit of Surge; it's why I use Surge in my meme build and not Pop. I simply don't believe that the benefit as-is is worth either the basic attack restriction or the cooldown. Furthermore, even at 45 seconds, you are given pretty free reign over which gen you want to Pop. Only on the absolute largest maps might you not have enough time to check every single gen for the most ideal one. I think giving up the chase can be fine for getting maximum Pop value. If I didn't, I wouldn't believe Pop would be worth using to begin with. I'm not against the amount of regression Surge currently gives, so I'm not going to speak on that.
Talking about scenarios: two survivors sitting on an almost finished gen...
You can absolutely do that with Pop at 80%. You just need to have the common sense to shoo away the other person first. The scenario you are describing requires a very small window for Surge to actually be better than Pop (specifically, small enough that the time it takes for you to perform your cooldown animation would be enough for the second person to finish the gen). In that very specific circumstance, yes, Surge would be better than Pop. However, on top of me considering such a situation to not be terribly common in the first place, there's also the fact that having a cooldown can actually impede with that scenario because of the chance that you may end up not being able to Surge the gen due to said cooldown. I am also far from convinced that Pop would not be able to perform similar feats through simply playing well, especially in a 3-gen situation where you can afford to scare everyone away before you go for your Pop.
I still very much believe the problem with Surge is the cooldown (and the basic attack requirement). I don't see an issue with what you are describing with those Killers because I believe you can accompish something comparable with less effort using Pop.
even at 45 seconds, you are given pretty free reign over which gen you want to Pop
that still includes that you waste a lot of time, if you really want to decide which gen to pop. in normal gameplay it is more likely that you are forced to kick a progressed gen that you "by accident" pass by. And giving up a chase is almost never a good option. Having another downed survivor is in most cases the better pressure than having 20 seconds extra on a gen. The lost chase takes you longer than 20 seconds to catch up again.
such a situation to not be terribly common
this is just an example to show what I mean with scenarios, and that this perk can not just be described with "down near gens" as you asked about "more than one scenario". The game is a bit more complex, especially when it comes to "conditions"
something comparable with less effort using Pop
Pop requires hooking. Infectious Fright is best on killers that benefit from slugging. I said that before, having to hook each downed survivor can give the team enough time to pop another gen or to either heal the team or get easy unhooks while you hook the next one. All not necessary with Surge. I can just repeat again: if you add multiple Surge effects on a slugging party, it is way more likely to end the game than with Pop.
Again, I think the bigger problem is the range. There are nearly no complaints about the cooldown on Thrilling Tremors. There were some in the beginning, but the perk is still picked decently often. Surge is too easy to counter by just running into deadzones (gen wise) which is what you do anyway when you have a plan on remaining gens.
We might just disagree, but I'm pretty sure that a removed cooldown would lead to a complete replacement of Pop, at least in higher ranks. Also pretty sure that it would hurt more than Pop if they did so
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@csandman1977 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1754563#Comment_1754563
Does he really though? Im all for adjust lunges and speeds to match height and weapons. Give pyramid head and oni longer swings at the cost of reduced attack speed and/or movement speed.
I guess making everything generic is the easy way out but killers are all different and may not hurt for them all to feel a little different.
So how do you handle the hitbox while carrying? Give him lunge while carrying to compensate the basically lost ability to hit survivors while carrying someone? Would that lunge then be affected by the new lunge increase perk? I think it is not that easy
EDIT: also @notsandingsbums it is not the lunge that is the problem, it is mainly the hitbox. The cone in front of the killer that determines if a hit lands or not. Just to make that clear
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1753064#Comment_1753064
The difference is that you can use Pop three times at various points of the match on whatever gens you want and get max Pop benefit as long as those gens had at least 25% progress. With Surge, you would have to hit the same three gens three times within a short time span to get a comparable amount of regression. That's a lot more effort and a lot more situational for what is at best only a comparable payoff. So I disagree that you need the cooldown to avoid it being oppressive.
What other scenarios are there, really? Hitting multiple gens at once in quick succession is pretty much the best you can do with a Surge that has no cooldown. The payoff you get with that is kinda just par for the course with Pop.
With many scenarios I just mean you cannot put the game into one single theoretical situation. You don't know which perks the survivors have, it depends on the killer you play, if survivors are near the slugs or not... That's why I in first place said, 3 downs are not ending the game yet.
Second, I don't even get your argumentation. If you think, a game is done with a triple down, what do you need the cooldown removal for?
The comparison I disagree again. The main benefit of Surge is that you don't have to kick gens. Kicking gens is a huge time waste, I also disagree that you are that free to chose which gens to pop. First because of the wasted time (you can't just walk across the map to kick the 80% gen in the corner) second, you could be in a chase that you give up for kicking the gen. Now everyone says the regression is not worth it anyway. Therefore you get the 8% regression on top. Not too much, because put it higher and you have half a Pop, meaning 2 gens in range already gives you a better effect as you dont have to kick it.
Talking about scenarios: two survivors sitting on an almost finished gen, they want to finish (with Adrenaline?). Down one of them and the gen gets regressed, preventing the other survivor from finishing it. 8% can be all you need. You can't do that with Pop, even if the gen is only at 80% when you down the first. Picking up and hooking takes too long to activate Pop. (So this is a specific scenario I mean, which would be totally ignored by a single theoretical description.) Apply this with a double or triple down in a 3 gen situation, and all the effort 4 survivors made is basically lost. Try that situation with Pop, and the killer loses more time with hooking and kicking, while either one of the gens probably finishes or half the team is up and running again.
I don't think that the cooldown is the problem with the perk being viable, I think the range is the bigger problem. You asked for removing the base attack + cooldown, right? Put that together with Infectious Fright on Nurse, Oni, Billy, Myers, Bubba, Spirit or Slinger. gg I guess
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Just a note on the term "debuff". It is basically "reducing" not just debuff. Because reduction can be a buff. Like pig dash charge addons reduce the charge time, but they are also multiplied, not added.
But yes, at OP: if you want a 16 second Selfcare, you would need a 100% speed boost in total, to compensate the 50% speed loss from Selfcare. Which would be almost achieved with Botany + Resilience + 4 stacks of Desperate Measures
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explained. All intended
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@maderr said:
So now killer mains or 50/50 killer/surv are admitting the game greatly favors killers and that it's crap playing as survivors.
Thanks, now devs, wake up and undo msot of the balance changes you have done to favor killers. You have been on this road for al ong time now without even taking in account the stats that show the killer OP situation for more than 1 year now.
tbf the reason for ez 4k is imo, also viewing from both sides, potato survivor play. Like looping the killer around a 90% gen or around hooked persons, bad hiding attempts, wasting time and granting hits with failed flashlight saves, insta unhooks without BT... all this stuff where you like to just think "happens" but knowing you have to add a "all the time"
yes, there were a lot of killer sided changes recently (but don't forget that it was not purely killer sided pls), but these were necessary as survivor perks are too strong and probably always will be.They can't rework that much on survivor side to balance it with maps and whatelse would be needed. And this makes the game harder for newer players, as survivors become more depending on good builds. Unless you are a 5k hours survivor main or something
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recent 57 games I had 3,4 kills on average
5 times 0k and 9 times 1-2
But I would say DC does not necessarily count as kill. People DC because they got body blocked by a plague, because they were found first within 20 seconds, because they go against a spirit or freddy...
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He is loud enough to get tracked and the pounce is also not that hard to counterplay. Stealth is actually his biggest and only strength so to me he seems alright. Depends on what they change about survivors being relatively immune in lockers and around tiny loops, but first of all Victor needs a buff
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1752388#Comment_1752388
Three downs in that quick of a succession in roughly the same area with a no-limits Surge would still result in a bit less regression than three uses of Pop Goes the Weasel, assuming that all three of the Popped gens are immediately tapped. I don't consider either case to be overkill.
Assumed. Also meaning you waste quite some time walking to and kicking the gens, either allowing slugs to heal up or giving easy unhooks or whatever, which is the bonus time Surge would jus grant you without a cloodown. And I think you agree that a triple Pop within a minute is a pain in the A.
I just think that the game has too many scenarios and cannot be summarized in a single scenario, especially not to evaluate perks. We could go on for weeks finding scenarios that favor each of our views and countering the other.
If you take my suggestion, I would say, regressing 3*8% is the same amount like a pop, but you save time kicking them and 3 gens get regressed. Therefore you need the cooldown to be not too oppressive.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1751351#Comment_1751351
I don't really agree that it would be OP, personally. If it gets to a point where a Killer would be able to make gens pop in super quick succession because of their power, they're kinda already in a winning position as-is. I actually think effectively removing the distance requirement is more likely to break Surge than removing the cooldown.
I don't agree with that. Apparently many people complain or are concerned about the CD as it affects the perk negatively too often. Apparently also killers get striked by DS without even tunneling also is a problem, and Pop got nerfed because 60 seconds allows too much action between hooking and kicking. And I think that none of these common situations appear only in already decided games. Quick multi downs can be a game changer, but survivors can (and have enough tools to) recover from that, unless all 4 are down.
2 or 3 downs within 45 seconds is in no way an already sealed win. But having multiple regression for that applied to multiple gens would surely help out to reach that point, as you have massive pressure AND reverted progress on top
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@TAG said:
I've been using it for my meme build for a while now. I don't think it's particularly good, but in my specific case, it is probably the best option for a slow-down perk that I have. Drop the cooldown and the requirement for basic hits only, and we'd be in business.
I think removing cooldown AND basic attack requirement would indeed be too strong. And just thought about an alternative and think that the 1/2/3 closest gens (depending on tier level) should explode. That would remove the distance requirement and would be really strong on tier 3, therefore maybe justifying the cooldown. That might at least be an alternative to removing the cooldown
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@Boss said:
Having used this bad boy again all day, i came to the same conclusion as i've done before. (Mind you that this conclusions is solely based on Wraith being the user.)
I really really really like this Perk.
Seeing 2-3 DAMAGE GENERATOR score events pop up with just 1 down feels good, especially knowing that regression also starts.
I mean i don't love the Perk, y'know? I'm not surprise-hitting with M1s, completely stopping chases, y'know?
And okay, maybe it's not on PGTW's level, but i kinda don't mind: I like not having to go out of my way to kick Generators.
That said, the cooldown really really really feels like an unnecessary hindrance to it, and without it, i think i might even replace PGTW in my main build with Surge.
It feels so terrible to down someone in the last 5 seconds of its cooldown, which happened i think 7 times today.
The immediate regression is 3x smaller than PGTW, which still sounds good when combined with my earlier-mentioned 2-3 DAMAGE GENERATOR score events, while in reality it's way more often just 1 or 0, since 100% & 0% Generators obviously don't count. (Also: Generator deadzones exist.)
You could have a really good slowdown Perk here that could be a competitor with PGTW & Hex: Ruin.
But i guess that's the problem here, right? That combining these 3 would then lead to massive slowdowns?
In that case: Why even have other slowdown Perks? Why add a new one with The Twins?
No, i'll always feel like Surge would be close to perfectly fine without its cooldown.
Probably could've worded things better, but i don't care at the moment, if you point out stuff then i'll edit.
What's your thoughts on Surge?
I don't even think that PGTW + Ruin + Surge would be such a great build. Surge works with Ruin, but PGTW kinda gets countered by both perks
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that should be posted in 4.4 PTB feedback
But like the idea. Probably add a difficult skillcheck on leaving the locker, if you fail, Victor latches on. Having a counterplay by skillcheck would then also justify a down if the survivor is injured