CyberDragoon656
CyberDragoon656
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@GeneralV said:
Such threads about the game "dying" come and go, and never really mean anything.
DBD is not going to die anytime soon, not that it wouldn't be justified if it did.
Well like I said to another here what else is there that needs to be done to push it into that area?
The balance is garbage, cheating is a problem, the mentality of the game is toxic, and as of late there is a aura of bhvr just shilling cosmetics instead of fixing fixing the game.
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@Pepsidot said:
Regular nerfs, buffs, map reworks, reworked killers, new content, new perks, new maps, new bugs (Jeryl), new improved legendary characters, new skins, new tomes/challenges, BP codes, events etc all contribute to DBD feeling fresh. There's always something interesting going on or controversies, like with the new Boil Over buff (which has now been nerfed).
As long as the devs keep supporting this game and doing the above, it's going to last a long time no matter the competition. The only things that could really kill it right now is if cheating or the general balance becomes really, really, really bad.
Ok let me rapid response the reasons you gave first.
Regular nerfs (usually on one sides), buffs (same with the nerf argument) , map reworks(most sucked), reworked killers(got nerf at least a few months later), new content (adds new bugs along with more characters to add to the pile. survivors is another pallette swap and for killers something to throw away figuratively speaking after a month or two thanks to a nerf,not being up to par for all mmr brackets or something else) , new perks(most have been put to the wayside or maybe used but only COH made much of an impact lately along with the scrounge mechanics which was made to try and help slowdown like most killer meta now), new maps(which end up being abused, suck or are one sided especially the newest ones), new bugs (like that's a good thing?) (Jeryl), new improved legendary characters (overpriced skins), new skins (most suck or are just clothing), new tomes/challenges(every online game has this along with a battle pass so why is this important not to mention the newest one highlights the worst stealth killer and the one before that highlighted the potentially worse killer so unless it is a quick fix what does this change?), BP codes(grind help but really why most games have this too and some have a better reward remember the joke codes or the for honor "event?), events etc all contribute to DBD feeling fresh (other than Christmas which was lopsided no nothing changed other than a different texture). There's always something interesting going on or controversies, like with the new Boil Over buff (which has now been nerfed). (Oh really what and when was boil over nerfed? And interesting and controversies do not = good especially since the devs can be seen now as thin skinned ego morons due to how they proceed with things)
Also right now it is a slow death most keep going away because the amount of mental stress that this game wants is not worth what it gives along with the devs basically ignoring the community when a group issue is addressed (unless it's survivors to have a air of casuality) and right now it needs competition at the very least because right now the balance is ######### and cheating is an issue so really other than making it blatantly obvious what else is needed to be done?
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@KolbyKolbyKolby said:
People have been saying this game is dying since it came out.
All those new games coming out are just the next versions of "HSHS is the DBD killer!" that everyone will probably play for a few months before returning. People who play DBD have invested a lot of time in it and that is not something that is abandoned easily. And despite the constant slurry of complaints DBD functions fine.
And in the end, there are no problems that DBD has that other asymmetrical games won't also have. DBD oftentimes struggles to maintain a proper sense of balance on a game that has been operating for almost 6 years. It is difficult to balance an asymmetrical game while keeping it accessible to a casual audience, and that they've managed to do it even somewhat is fairly remarkable imo.
Cheaters will exist in the other games, parties that bully the poor innocent other side will exist in other games, and a lack of balance due to a lack of symmetry will likewise exist in those other games.
Yes other games have had cheating but there's no excuse as to why it's taking this long to fix it for one. And secondly exactly who are you referencing for "people who invested alot of time?" The people why stream or get paid by bhvr or the random Joes? Cause if it's the first no one ever seems happy to play this game any more case other than maybe otz and Scott most streamers and content creators either flat out make snide remarks about the balance or at the very least have a I don't care any more or a down-right sense of a hateful tone to their voice thanks to the balance or if it's the second half that can just be answered by the decreasing numbers the game gets lately because unless they don't have other games to play most would more than likely quit for a while, maybe check in after an update or two, see the game is still ######### and leave again.
And no dbd doesn't function "fine" that's why so many people go onto the forums and talk about console optimization and cross progression alot.
Also you brought up one thing that I forgot to address the whole "making the game accessible for casual audiences" let me ask if that was the case why does it still have the worse progression system ever, many people who try killer quit and play survivor and the amount of second chance and forgiving perks survivors have in a nutshell? The fact that the devs say mmr is fine but keep trying to have a sense of causality shows a major problem that they do not want to back pedal on to fix it.
Also for a game that is going on 6 years under it's belt, for what is shown is not what 6 years+ of development should be especially for a game that has a base entry fee along with a growing complete entry fee and the fact that the game borrows so many f2p assets as well doesn't help.
Like I said deep down I don't want it to die but right now I feel like maybe it should a little bit either to fix major issues with a new release or to at lease save what little face the devs have now.
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Cause survivors don't want a challenge.
They can try and lie and say it's a balancing issue but ignore the crutches they use to stand on their mountain that they want to die on so to speak.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
https://twitter.com/deadbybhvr/status/1492287446175858694?s=21
Well, well, well.
And I can almost predict it to be just like the others
Comment section be just the francises fans happy that x franchise is in.
The killer is going to be a forced 6-7 dollars to play
People will play for a month or two
Survivors find something to ######### about and the devs nerf the killer.
Then go back to business as usual along with more bugs because the devs want that license money.
It's been the same thing for every reveal as of late what would this one do to change that?
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2805027#Comment_2805027
Only weak Killers are fair?
Makes about as much sense as having only 2 worth investing in now.
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@BoriskyTheFox said:
Im glad they disabled her for a while. Playing against a killer that can teleport through walls and hit you no matter what you do isnt fun. This is our chance to go against killers that have more interactive mechanics.
So they should just be easily dodgable killers?
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2800449#Comment_2800449
Yeah when did I say they shouldn't run? I never said they shouldn't run what I am saying is that survivors should be punished for being obvious.
'Being obvious'. IE: The killer getting a notification when you get pulled off the hook and then having to run away with bright red marks showing where you went.
I know they get the notice right after hook that's why bt exist yet you expect me to accept that if a survivor ######### up that they should keep their perk because of fuckups that caused.
Again 'survivor ######### up'. What are you supposed to do when the killer comes charging in, two seconds after you've been pulled off the hook? You're still injured, you're easily traceable and the killer knows exactly when you get off the hook.
Not to mention that you're casually throwing in another perk, and this one isn't even in the unhooked survivor's control!
cause from what you decided to answer you want to say the choice is either eat the ds or ignore them
Or, option 3: SLUG THEM. They ain't helping their team when they're tuckered out on the ground, and they haven't been helping their team since they got pulled off the hook. They've practically taken themselves out of the fight for a full minute, and you got extra pressure all that time.
Also for ds I said flat out I understand what it is meant for however much like I asked why should it be used in ways that encourage it and instead you decided to basically say that ds should be used in ways to encourage it because it is for aggressive play which the perk was not made to do.
No, you misunderstand: DS is meant as an anti-tunnelling perk, but it is one of the most easily counterplayed perks in the game. If the killer opts not to tunnel, the perk doesn't work, at all.
And so people will try to use it aggressively so they can get SOME value out of their band-aid perk. And I would like to remind you: Against a competent killer, this has a near zero percent chance of working, and is much more likely to cost the survivors.
Whether DS has any value at all is entirely down to the killer.
or atleast use it as evidence to say "the game is not survivor sided" or "the game is balanced" it cannot be used as much as they want it to be.
It doesn't need to be used 'as much as they want it to be'. It can be used, period, and that is enough, considering there is NO evidence pointing to the game being survivor-sided. So as flimsy as the stats and Otz' experiment might be as data, it still beats out the 'anecdata' propping up the idea that the game is survivor-sided.
Ok this is getting old, first off yes they can since there are perks and a boon that can hide scratch marks along with that lockers and some vault points that can help hide survivors among other things, alot of your arguments sound more like a case of victom blaming because for the most part what I read from any hook argument you have is basically "if anything like bt or that isn't in a survivor's perk build they can't do anything about it at all so ds must stay that way" right does that excuse constant running survivors or people body blocking? To me I would say no cause it should be a bad play but to you I guess it's just fine that's why I keep saying it's a survivors ######### up because if it wasn't for the plethora of second chance perks and the bullshit they allow, most survivors wouldn't be trying to make excuses and try to say the game is balanced when it's not along with most of the ######### survivors having inflated egos for a game that made one side easier than the other at its core.
Secondly, no slugging is not an answer to the original argument I had because of two main reasons first the more simple issue is that since hit validation is the shits there's a chance a hit can be registered as a grab and yes that's more internet than the game but the fact it is an issue for a a game notoriously ######### about dealing with cheaters I might as well bring it up and for the more game based issue, you can try to justify it as putting pressure on the survivors but thanks to UB, adrenaline, one of the boons along with at least two perks that have an effect on the wiggle bars progression it will not work because unless the killer parks their ass on the survivor and wait out the time due to the perks I brought up. And along with that it doesn't stop the survivor crawling and getting healed as well. No a competent killer wouldn't have that problem because since ds is an anti tunneling perk if a survivor is altruistic no matter what your level is you wi still have to deal with it.
And for that little bit about saying stats from the devs and otz are better, tell me this then why is that neither video factors in things like swfs, the rng, specific maps used to show its balanced, and the potentially grim reaper of this game the ######### matchmaking system. Also it's becoming more and more apparent it is survivor biased thanks to more buff to perks and garbage nerfs that fix nothing and the fact that just as a business standing why not appease the 4 instead of the 1. It may not be obvious but it is showing more and more.
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@Lochnload_exe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2800491#Comment_2800491
But his point does stand and it applies to almost every pvp game ever. If you want to win, you can't take into account "fair" or "casual" players, because the player who tries to win will win, and his point was proven. Any killer that tries to win can and will win, and that applies to survivors as well. If you say the game is survivor sided then only play fair or not to win, then it isn't unbalanced because you lost. His point was that you should complain that you have to play in a very unfun manner for both sides at high level, not that the game is unfair, because it certainly isn't.
Also it sounds like you do not like the grind instead of the game being unfair. That is a separate discussion from the game being fair or not.
First off tell me who likes the grind? I haven't seen one person defend the bloodweb and since people want to use content creators as a reason it's balanced then it shouldn't feel like it's the same sort of reasoning why ff13 is fun "spend hours upon hours to get to the point of balance/fun"
And secondly what has it proved other that what I said and you basically agree with the game is now degraded to sweatfest and competitive matched using the most optimal options which now has lead to perk stagnation and much like others said it doesn't change anything.
Mmr has basically caused dbd to be nothing more than a ######### competitive game
The perks and the killer's base kit now has a non existing sense of variety all survivors uses meta perks and any form builds for killers needs specific perks due to how the balance is.
Also yes fair and casual players do have to factor in for 2 reasons.
1. The devs don't factor high mmr survivors or they would have done something about DH instead of using high mmr as an excuse to nerf twins.
2. If people are going to use otz or Scott as a reason it's balanced then it needs to be all brackets since there is no separating people who just started, who are in mid bracket and high bracket, thanks to how mmr prioritizes speed along with lately the idea that if killers get a single whiff of a swf or even thinks it's a sfw they dodge the lobby. Hell there's a video online that makes a point to say if the lobby feels like a no win situation dodge the lobby.
Along with that the devs have said before they want to do something about camping and thanks to boil over, there's a more likely outcome to dealing with slugging and the proof that even the devs got squashed by survivors. So let me understand this then, hit and run is not viable due to boons, camping is being looked at so, if there's any truth to making bt basekit since they never said no to that, and slugging unless you pair your ass right on top of them can be countered by at least three perks what's left then?
If it ever got to that point and with the oddball decisions by the devs as of late it's hard not to think that it's just going to be more and more survivor buff and killer restraints, the video "proof" that so many want to use as evidence to the point where it can be eventually called a survivor flameshield to deflect any issues and just try to say it's something else will not work because of how apparent it has become that the devs are survivor biased.
To me that proof had been made apparent by adding a new problem child perk, having the last 5 to 6 videos on YouTube be nothing but cosmetic shlock, and the simple fact that instead of even trying to make the tome featured killer good at all they just decided that since it's a licensed killer why not just have it where it features a killer that has been devalued and much like most killers now, is not worth the money that the devs want people to spend in order to play as them.
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@KateMain86 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2739291#Comment_2739291
Yea but when the best argument is "SWF groups so toxic" when it comes to killers trying to make the argument that its not in their favor, thats not really evidence. In fact its just annoying at this point that SWF complaints are literally their best argument as to why they think its not in their favor. I've been solo queing all day to use up these envelopes before the event is over. Guess how many SWF teams I saw today? 1... and everyone died.
Right except there's more to it than just "######### swfs " basically.
For one like I said for as much as people want to uses a streamer or a dbdtubers word as gospel or atleast use it as evidence to say "the game is not survivor sided" or "the game is balanced" it cannot be used as much as they want it to be. Unfortunately atm the people who are trying to use this as proof are seemingly the same kind of people who would say ff13 is fun after playing hours upon hours Into the game cause that's when the fun (or in this game's case balance) starts to appear. This is a game where you can spend hundreds of hours playing killer and due to one update or one patch all of it can be thrown away and you have to start anew trying to catch up again while survivors do not have to deal with it as much because all survivors are the same.
First off and many others have said it but these people have basically everything unlocked for killers which only a percent of players do. And if it wasn't for the MMR ######### matchmaking, it wouldn't be as bad of a problem as it is. And maybe there wouldn't be so many people flat out saying "######### mmr, why deep this?" Along with now I can almost guarantee it being also an issue because the devs used it as an excuse to nerf an already unpopular killer to an almost useless killer.
Along with that many can agree that high mmr is survivor sided and yes while I can agree not every high mmr player is a god at the game, it does not matter when taking into account how matchmaking prioritizes players making it a gamble basically on if a match will be balanced, a squash match for you or a squash match for the opponent. Which if this game had better match making or a lobby system like say smash 4 it could potentially become more the first instead of the other two.
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@Lochnload_exe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2800199#Comment_2800199
And that can be said about survivors as well. Not every survivor has all the best perks unlocked meaning tunneling and playing dirty to win easier can be done much more efficiently. It goes both ways. Same with RNG. The RNG can be against survivors as well.
True but ATM they have an easier path to getting to that point because for survivors it goes like this "max out David, lori,Lori, and maybe Michaela, find which survivor you like, grind till completion, maybe get items and addons as well" because survivors are just pallette swaps that are not effected by outside issues as much as killers. Take deathslinger for an example here's his set up "max out cannibal,shape,plague,hag (for one example), learn how to play slinger,obtain a good number of good addons..." Then a nerf happens "relearn slinger or scrap all the progress and use someone else if the nerf has made them bad and basically start from square one".
At the game's core right now thanks to how the game balances both sides, maps and rng (which yes can favor killer at times but survivor even more in most cases) it is much easier for survivors in the long run since unless the perk gets hit nothing changes.
And that's why for as much as people want to keep trying to use otz's videos to say it's not survivor sided or is balanced, with how the game is atm it changed nothing. Instead, it just showed that playing "fair" should be ignored and what most deem "toxic" is subjective at best. Because thanks to the mmr system and how it meshed both competitive and casual players horribly any form of "x proves y" cannot be taking into account as much as people try to.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2797181#Comment_2797181
Their position is declared to the killer the moment they come off the hook! What are they supposed to do against that?
'They got caught', yeah, big ######### whoop when the killer knows their exact location. Who wouldn't be able to catch that?
'Don't run then!' But then how do I make distance from the killer? They still know where the survivor is if you don't leave tracks, because they know the survivor can't be far. All they need to do is sweep the area and just kill the survivor when they inevitably find them.
You are right on one thing ds was ment to be a tunneling perk. So, then why then do survivors who have it tend to use it in ways that encourage it insinstead.
Because outside of an aggressive use, the perk is dead weight in almost all cases. Is that your balancing metric? Should survivor perks just be blank slots?
That's the reason I say it rewards bad play because thanks to how long the timer is other than slugging and waiting for 30 seconds or so the killer has no real way to punish the bad play.
You're getting a free down. Quit whining. They wanna waste half a minute lying on the floor, helpless, that's to YOUR benefit. You have no right to just slam your face into that perk and demand that it bends for you. Survivor perks are supposed to help survivors, not killers. You argument here legitimately comes down to "I should be able to fully ignore this perk".
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2786988#Comment_2786988
It may take a bit of time, but frankly until the gates are opened time is on the survivors' side
That depends on the killer's performance. Put out enough pressure and time absolutely isn't on survivors' side.
Blight? Definitely going to make sure there's no dull by the time my team does the last gen.
Case in point. A good blight is definitely going to punish you for wasting time on five dulls on the off chance that he's carrying NOED. Remember: You're not guaranteed any return on investment for clearing 5, and if you miss one, you get even less.
Devour Hope at full strength is about as powerful, I would say, however the fact that it isn't just locked to after 5 gens are powered, and can be up for a large part of the match itself makes it far more powerful. Yet somehow even with 5 stacks survivors are still able to find the single lit totem to kill it, even through they would have less map knowledge by that time.
Devour Hope is not up for most of the game either, though, and it can be demolished with just one totem, before it becomes a problem, and there's a near guaranteed return on investment for doing so. It's much, much, MUCH easier to find one hex totem than to find all five dulls, especially in regards to the solo/swiffer dichotomy. You can easily clear a single hex by yourself. Doing five dulls by yourself is going to seriously set your team back, if you even succeed.
The cost is playing a perk short for most of the match, for a perk that may be prevented from even activating.
This is something that people need to realise too: The only way you don't get any value out of NOED is
A) It gets cleansed the moment it comes online
OR
B) The fifth gen is never completed.
If the fifth gen pops and NOED doesn't fire? You got about as much value as you could've gotten had all four survivors run No Mither into your Thanatophobia.
It is almost impossible to not get value out of NOED. The value will differ, sure, but you're going to get something out of it. If it doesn't fire, it slowed the survivors down about as much as a sixth gen would've. If it does fire, you get the movespeed boost. And if you get a hit on a healthy target before they cleanse it, you got the instadown.
At worst, it's a single exposed down (Haunted Grounds, anyone?), at best, it can turn a dead loss into a 4K.
NOED is a strong perk with unfair counterplay.
I'm not sure where you are getting the idea that I am out here bashing people for using DS
When did I say you did?
Yeah when did I say they shouldn't run? I never said they shouldn't run what I am saying is that survivors should be punished for being obvious.
I know they get the notice right after hook that's why bt exist yet you expect me to accept that if a survivor ######### up that they should keep their perk because of fuckups that caused.
Also for one let me ask you this since apparently it's considered "whining" if a survivor runs to a spot and gets in a situation where they get caught what do you suppose the does cause from what you decided to answer you want to say the choice is either eat the ds or ignore them maybe instead of considering it whining maybe actually figure why I'm saying this instead of just jumping to "KiLLer waNt 4K" like most who don't accept people saying certain things.
Also for ds I said flat out I understand what it is meant for however much like I asked why should it be used in ways that encourage it and instead you decided to basically say that ds should be used in ways to encourage it because it is for aggressive play which the perk was not made to do.
And lastly yes I do have the moniker for survivor complaints boiling down to "don't get caught" because the game atm fluctuates on how the survivors play now. So IMO right now camping ,tunneling, slugging are now viable thanks to both the balance and survivors.
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@Adaez said:
Yeah game is so killer sided,playing killer is so fun.
/s
Game shouldn't be either sided,it should be fun for both sides.
You're right but it's a pipe dream for that.
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@Lochnload_exe said:
No, what otz proved is that when you are ACTUALLY good at the game, you will do good against ACTUALLY good survivors, but most "killer mains" now act like improving and getting better isn't reasonable, and act like you are lying when you say you don't feel horrible playing killer.
Otz has always said that you shouldn't just blame survivors for your loss, you should want to look at your own improvement, he even made another recent video talking about it. Play both sides, learn the game, and want to get better, stop blaming other stuff for your loss when good killer players show it isn't always a stomp.
These new players are the louder majority acting like survivors are so op broken when you only play one side and still have a lot to improve on.
Yet saying that as well shows nothing cause instead of it being experience and skill driven like a fighting game, this game heavily relies on rng so you can get a balanced game, a squash game or a game where it feels like no matter what you do you will not improve.
And thanks to both mmr and the bloodweb it will will almost 8 times out of 10 feel like the last scenario rather than the first.
I'm not saying otz is all wrong but remember most do not have all perks on all killers which right now some heavily rely on and even when people looked up his videos it shows that in order to circumvent some of the negatives specific perks are needed which most of the time is on a character you are not using.
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@Mandy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/309315/unpopular-opinion
Entity feeds on hope, the survivor shouldn't feel hopeless - otherwise why would they bother playing the game?
And regardless of popular opinions, Killers do not get nerfed due to complaints - changes are made in line with game balancing.
Then why does the balancing now seem to favor survivors now thanks to the amount of second chance and safety perks that are available for them?
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@Nathan13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2797004#Comment_2797004
How exactly does DS reward survivors for their mistakes when it punishes killers for tunneling??
Because they get caught and right now with how survivors tend to be at times they don't do a good job at either hiding or since constantly running is something all survivors do they make it too obvious for the killer location wise.
You are right on one thing ds was ment to be a tunneling perk. So, then why then do survivors who have it tend to use it in ways that encourage it insinstead. That's the reason I say it rewards bad play because thanks to how long the timer is other than slugging and waiting for 30 seconds or so the killer has no real way to punish the bad play.
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@Tr1nity said:
No.
Yes
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2784785#Comment_2784785
Do you really think you'd want that? Do you really think it'd be an okay trade-off to spend a full minute scouring the map for five interactable objects just so you can disable DS, with the added benefit of not actually knowing whether the survivor has DS beforehand, either.
You'd never take that option. You'd never waste that much time on the off-chance that the survivor has a perk that you could also disable by simply going for a different target.
That's the point of the analogy: NOED requiring either a ton of extra work or a ton of luck to 'counter' is fine, but DS is a problem because apparently killers are too dumb to switch targets.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2784836#Comment_2784836
So for one if a person gets off one hook then turns to helps swarm another hook they should keep their ds for doing a bad play?
They can't. If they touch that hooked survivor, DS goes down. They can bodyblock, sure, but then you can just slap them down and leave them on the ground.
If a person gets off a hook and just runs ,not even doing a run then walk set up to try and hide their scratch marks but just runs into into locker where it's obvious they hid there they should keep ds.
Which is it? Are they running into a locker and making it obvious where they are, or are they hiding their tracks? Either way, how much effort does it take for you to NOT walk up to that locker and NOT press the interact button?
NOED: well guess what if boons can be constantly lit and relit over the span of a game it shows survivors have enough time to cleanse totems also lately the placements suck anyways.
And here's another example of how dumb the killer bias can get: Yes, survivors have time to deal with totems IF DOING SO COMPENSATES THEM FOR THE TIME SPENT ON IT.
There's an enormous gulf of difference between blessing a totem so you lose scratch marks or get massively increased healing versus breaking a totem for no benefit whatsoever. Because remember: Over 80% of snuffed dull totems contributed NOTHING to stopping NOED.
Right now the meta for survivors is rewarding bad play ds
This is the exact point.
Survivors aren't being rewarded for bad plays by DS. It won't do them any good against a killer that keeps that perk in mind. It's not survivors getting rewarded for bad plays, it's you being punished for making a misplay.
Which loops back to the point I was making: The forums are stuck in a mindset of 'survivors win = survivors OP, killers win = survivors were just bad', with absolutely zero nuance. The constant mention of DS as a contributor to 'survivors OP' perfectly shows that sometimes killers just lose because they played poorly.
Bitter pill to swallow for these forums, it seems.
And this is what I get for using a phone with auto correct to try and explain issues it sometimes acts up so let's see what I can make from this.
First off you might as well just say go ahead and bleed people out cause first off since the mindset people have is that everyone uses ds so slugging is warranted also like I said why then should people be allowed to do this bt and ds make it so it's a lost safer to do risky tactics atm and it shouldn't be allowing more than one person to swarm a hook in the first place.
Secondly this was a bad part on wording on my end what I ment to say is that instead of trying to hide the scratch marks and hide they just run to a locker and hide making it obvious as to where they are. However, the logic you proposed make no sense. In your words then I guess the killer should just slug again or just leave them alone even though they ######### up.
Third both the fact you said this was biased and what you try to defend doesn't help your case. First off, what I said for noed the usual arguments for it being over powered is a joke since boons exist and the fact that some maps make the placement of totems terrible doesn't help either. Yet, the main issue I have is the same I said to another, as of right now the biggest issue for boons right now is the mechanic itself as long as that exist you can tweak and nerf however you like perk wise, but it will accomplish nothing due to how boons are as a whole. And yes while dull totems don't effect noed until it's activated it is still a one and done risk vs reward perk unlike boons which can be reused over and over again.
And yes ds does reward survivor mistakes just like most meta now since most of them do not reward survivors for chases, gens and such instead a good chunk of the most used perks that survivors use reward them for getting caught or getting hit which right now they might as well be called safety nets because the level of forgiveness is getting more and more apparent as time goes on.
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I'm saying in general
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@Nathan13 said:
Once again if perks are working as intended than there’s no reason to kill switch it. Next
What if intended use means the perk is over powered?
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2785122#Comment_2785122
I mean, I won't argue that perk diversity could use some serious revitalising right now, but that has basically nothing to do with Boil Over being only useful for bully squads.
Since the squads will pick spots or maps that benefit the plays, unless you have something like iron grasp or agitation the swaying motion+shadow buff from New wiggle + potentially other perks and add-ons accommodating it such as ub and adrenaline along with the hook spreading add on that's how it can useful to bully squads I never really said it was only useful to them but they seem to benefit the most from it.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2784896#Comment_2784896
Nnnnnot really? If they fix the two abusable spots, it'll be something bully squads run, sure, but it'll also be a fairly decent perk for everyone else too.
Bully squads run all kinds of perks that aren't strictly only useful for them, after all.
To a point it is however due to how the game is set up think about it.
Usual killer build
-bbq
-corrupt
-a slowdown perk such as pop or ruin
-a counter measure perk such as in boil over case iron grip
It can change slightly due to who the killer is but as more survivor perks get buffed or in coh's case nerfs that do nothing killer builds are starting to get more and more ridged causing variety to die slowly.
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@Nathan13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2784896#Comment_2784896
Can we please stop calling boil over a bully tool??
Only when it's stops being one, as long as it can be used as one it will be labeled as such.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2784884#Comment_2784884
Yes, but those aren't abusable spots by Boil Over, they're just bad areas in general. The abusable spots for Boil Over are the library spot in RPD, and kinda-sorta the main structure in Eyrie of Crows- because no matter what, regardless of how you play or what the hook spawn RNG is, you cannot get a hook. It's not abusing Boil Over to just have it equipped and get lucky with hook spawns.
I absolutely see why they did it. I also see why it was unnecessary and petty. Their actions make logical sense, that doesn't mean they were right and justified.
Bottom line: Boil Over doing something is not proof of it being OP nor is it proof the survivors were abusing it. I do think the perk could use some minor tweaks, but the reaction shown in this thread was an overreaction, plain and simple.
It's just a bully tool now and yet also another problem that causes killers to become very limited and needs a very restricted build.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2784861#Comment_2784861
There's no way those spots are abusable, there are hooks in those areas and there's no way to force the killer to drop down unless you get lucky with which direction the wiggle strafe effect moves the killer in. Boil Over is more useful in those areas, at least if you get lucky, but that's not even slightly comparable to the RPD library area where it is literally impossible to get a hook.
To clarify my last statement: The killer in that video is on a map that isn't abusable, in a spot where there are definitely hooks to put the survivor on. There is no reason to force a survivor to bleed out just for having Boil Over, because that perk is only abusable in certain spots of certain maps, which this killer was not on. Doing it here is just spite over not liking the perk they brought, it was not a wise tactical decision and it was not a justified move.
Obviously if it is someone abusing those spots, yes, leave them to bleed out, that's the only thing you can do.
Yes and no some maps have issues with hook spacing like midwich and and artist's map specifically the main building but also due to how the game considers something as a great fall doesn't help.
Also given how most perks are now I'm not defending the killer but as soon as you see the boil over symbol I can see someone just right away decided to drop the survivor and let them bleed.
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@El_Gingero said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2784243#Comment_2784243
Yeah I don’t get it either. They have some very peculiar design philosophies.
They bandaided the game using perks to the point some people can try and predict that atleast one new killer perk now will be a countermeasure for when they ######### up.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2784537#Comment_2784537
I mean, look at the map OP is on. Boil Over can absolutely be broken and unfun... on certain maps. For the majority of the maps, it's stronger but it's fine, and Gideon's doesn't have any abusable spots to my knowledge. Maybe one of the gaps down to the second floor if you're lucky, but it's not a guarantee and there are hooks down there if you manage to get the killer to drop there anyway.
OP is right that this is childish. Boil Over isn't OP, it's abusable on some maps, and there's no reason to force someone to bleed out just for bringing it with intent to use it legitimately.
For gideon it's every flight of stairs the one corner hole and maybe the two gate areas, the problem also is if it's a bully swf or just unlucky that massive amount of pull boil over has can tug you just enough to fall into the hole same with the artist's map and dead dawg saloon along with a few outside maps it wouldn't be an issue by itself but with everything else to consider there are some legit reasons to have a survivor bleedout.
Also I'm confused so you are saying there's no reason to bleed out survivors while saying reasons to do it.
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@Aurelle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2784514#Comment_2784514
Some killers are just really petty when it comes to survivors using perks that they don't like, so they do whatever they can to make the match miserable for the survivor using said perk(s). It doesn't matter how you use it, some killers will still get upset no matter what.
Oh that's not a one sided arguments though both sides have been having issues with certain perks for a while now.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2783684#Comment_2783684
DS is the perfect example: it is one of the most counterable perks in the entire game. If you get hit by it, you played into it.
And yet, it's not the killer that's at fault here, apparently!
NOED? 'lol, just cleanse all five totems'
DS? 'I can't go after a target that wasn't just pulled off the hook!'
Again: survivors need to 'git gud', but killers just need their hand held, apparently.
So let's me see what I can understand from this.
So for one if a person gets off one hook then turns to helps swarm another hook they should keep their ds for doing a bad play? If a person gets off a hook and just runs ,not even doing a run then walk set up to try and hide their scratch marks but just runs into into locker where it's obvious they hid there they should keep ds.
NOED: well guess what if boons can be constantly lit and relit over the span of a game it shows survivors have enough time to cleanse totems also lately the placements suck anyways.
Right now the meta for survivors is rewarding bad play ds and bt for getting caught and downed, DH flat out is a safety net perk ,UB now thanks to boil over can easily make multistory maps unbearable, same with adrenaline but that one isn't seen as much
And if you are saying killers act like they want their hand held then atm survivors are getting their hand held thanks to how forgiving the perks are.
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@bm33 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2784252#Comment_2784252
Lightborn is a teachable on Hillbilly - everyone has him because he comes with the base game so everyone has access to that perk.
The character yes but not the perk due to how the game is set up you cannot just get his learnable perk and suddenly you have it you still have to grind bloodwebs inorder to obtain it and remember you have to do this once per character other than Billy and 2 more times to upgrade it.
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@Bardon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2778404#Comment_2778404
I'm a fairly new player (just over 100 hours) and I'll admit that Killer is getting far less fun to play, I often get matched up with survivors with far more time in than I have and it's just rough as hell.
The thing is however I must ask obviously part of it is due to a lack of experience that's just how games are but for this one how many times was it irritating to lose only cause of survivor perk builds
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/308070/blight-blight-blight-and-another-blight
Exactly. People complain about killers so much (and sometimes not). You're left with 1-3 viable killers.
It's what folks deserve.
Welp that's what you get when the pallette swaps get jealous they can't do anything but push a button now.
Viability starts to wane and eventually its just going to be nurse and blight matches.
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@El_Gingero said:
Yeah it’s a shame more killers aren’t being buffed up to a similar level but I don’t think the devs want too many killers to be “top tier” for some reason. You’d think we could at least have more than 3 or 4 tho.
So they don't want viability and instead make their game more of a boring slog than it is?
Then first of all why buy anymore dlc if they aren't worth a ######### same with alot of chapters due to the devs balance most chapters now are overpriced perk sets.
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@CrazyMarc said:
Title says it all, cool game you got here BHVR. I'm punished because of the killer's bad manners.
Sucks on both sides unfortunately , we have a game setup where people ruined us having nice things.
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@malibu_barbie_26 said:
Killers can kill by hooks, bleeding out, moris, or a number of perks/addons…tombstone, rancor, etc. Lets not forgot the one shots and second objective toting killers. Don’t forget killers already run faster than the survivors at base and run even faster in bloodlust.
There are plenty of ways to kill and literally only 2 ways to escape. And pallets only get so many uses.
So what do you suggest to make the game easier for killers to kill?
How about not making survivor perks so forgiving and weaker killers a buff to their base kits. Also for some of your options you can lose them easily tombstone even with infinite tier 3 can only kill one survivor cause after you do it decreases to tier 2,most hex perks atm are not as good as they used to especially thanks to boons now, rancor only works with obsession at game end simular to noed. Thanks to boil over multistory maps can make hooks useless,Unbreakable makes bleeding out an issue, Moris are prarically useless in most cases due to needing to be on final hook, only certain killers have access to instadowns while others do not, not to mention due to the game's broken balance now it also makes it an issue.
While challenge shouldn't be a problem as of late there are good reasons to think survivor is easy mode and the challenge for some killers is fabricated rather than it being just because someone needing more experience.
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@Pannat1 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2778408#Comment_2778408
lol I mean buff killer against swf game mode only..
Still though, how would they buff them? Perks would be a ######### buff and it seems no one wants to buff basekits.
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@MikaKim said:
The game has been killer sided for some time now. The stats alone highlight it.
But this killer dominated forum will nerd rage till they're red in the face, just to try and say its anything but.
Maybe cause people use cherry pick statistics ,misinformation, or used videos that pin point to specific occurances that can't factor in many issues going on with why people think it's one sided.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2780197#Comment_2780197
How so? A killer can bring a post gen 5 build with NOED, No Way Out and Bloodwarden.
Why is it that anytime survivors win, they're op, but when killers win, the survivors are just bad?
Cause it is all controlled by how the survivors are in the game but, along with that most meta perks are also way too forgiving so when you have people ######### up and be constantly saved due to DH , hook swarmed a survivor and got downed but ds is still activated or ds activated even though they run into a locker unsafe then it's hard not to think so.
Also for the usual end game build it is reliant on hexes that can be destroyed or hooks that can be avoided.
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@Mooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2779985#Comment_2779985
Just responding on the boons because in the others cases we either agree or it’s actually a subjective matter.
Boons are not meant to be the survivors equivalent of Hexes. They have similarities being Totem based sure. But otherwise they are different and should be treated that way. CoH is busted, the others are not OP and not on the level of Hex effects.
The effects I agree with but like I keep saying it's not the effects it's the mechanics cause right now boons only have two options to deal with them "waste time or ignore them". I agree only COH is an issue as an effect but the reason it's still is an issue is due to the mechanics of the boons themselves.
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@Nathan13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2779388#Comment_2779388
I see a lot of killer variety in my games. Nurse and Blights aren’t the only good killers.
Yeah are they winning though just because you see them doesn't mean they don't suck.
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@Zarathos said:
Ill be straight with you dbd is as toxic as a paddling pool of chlorine. You wanna see toxic go check out csgo,dota,etc. The fact of the matter is the sheer amount of resources required to curb bad behaviour is so expensive resource wise it would be better spent making the actual mechanics and gameplay of dbd more varied and interesting.
Getting harassed because your losing to your opponent is just your average ######### gamer energy nothing new. I advise closing chat permently whatever good comes of it is not worth the moaning and temper tantrums that permeate this post game chat.
No it is that bad and the fact it has a lower player makes it even more of a problem. Quit sugar coating it by trying to excuse it cause it's still harassment and there are plenty of times people have been told to kill themselves thanks to how this community acts.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2780038#Comment_2780038
Ah yes, the franklin.
Sorry wrong one
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@KolbyKolbyKolby said:
Aside from extensively bodyblocking someone til they get crows, threatening people in the end game chat, and bringing Franklin's Demise, there isn't really anything in this game that is genuinely toxic behavior.
Only one of those is an actual issue.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2779794#Comment_2779794
Then you are absurdly lucky or are playing at a very different MMR, possibly even a different region to myself.
I can tell you, as a fact, around half my games as killer have at least one of the following:
- Someone rage DCing.
- Someone lurking in the gates to teabag or act the fool.
- Someone teabagging or spamming their flashlight to be annoying.
- Someone being a jerk in postgame.
My matches as killer
Dcing 10%
Someone acting like a jerk 50% (55 if I win)
Tbagging and flashlight spamming 75%
Lurking around gate and acting like a toddler almost all the goddamm time.
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@Mooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2779942#Comment_2779942
Okay. But then you couldn’t even believe them if they said it’s due to legal and financial issues (which if you can read the lines they actually did)
I guess to a point sure but, I swear they gotta choose theirs words better.
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@Slaughterhouse3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2779910#Comment_2779910
Showing a problematic perk is me sucking? I think that helps feedback actually lmao
So this was a joke then?
"I sat and made a killer miserable with Boil over through half the game. lol I still think survivors have it in the bag ;)"
If it was fine I'm sorry. if not you know what I think.
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@Mooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2779891#Comment_2779891
CoH is problematic. Their official reasoning for not changing it more drastically is that it’s relatively new and players should first get accustomed to it. I agree it’s overpowered. But that’s not a boon problem but a CoH problem.
Twins being buggy (which was definitely the case and was one of the worst chapters because of this) does not relate to them deserving buffs or nerfs. They need QoL changes. Some addons getting tweaked is not hurting or helping them that much either way.
As to perks: just out of curiosity, what is your opinion on survivor meta perks consisting literally of anti-tunneling and anti-Camping perks? You are making this out to be a killer problem but it’s a general one where perks are being used as bandaid fixes to problems on both sides.
on balancing I can’t really say much, I am not a game designer. But I can see how many suggestions by the community are just busted and even worse than what the devs come up with. And balancing is definitely one of the current biggest issues the game has. Hit and run was btw already useless in high level plays before boons came into the game and again you are blaming boons when the major problem is only CoH and not boons in general. BT is not confirmed to become basekit. Please stop with these assumptions.
I already agreed that I think grades shouldn’t be shown, haven’t I? But there WILL be players that will curse the devs if they do it.
Solo survivors are still suffering more than killers can even imagine. You are only looking at matches were survivors are experienced and well coordinated - which is a very small amount of all matches.
Ok for boons I will say one last time it is but I will ask you this.
"Why are boons able to be relit continuously with no permanent counterplay?
It's not that I am saying get rid of the perk entirely but as long as these things can be lit, snuffed,lit,snuffed,over take hex totems it is an issue I said it before if they made them single use placable hex totems and when they're gone they're gone since it was a machine to be survivor hex totems basically why not make them work similarly to them.
Yes because twins are buggy it does effect nerfa and buffs cause it is still a part of the character "even if qol changes are made why play them if the character sucks?" that's what I mean by trying to understand why they nerfed the when they get the bugs tweaked if it fixed and they suck then they still suck.
For perks to be honest I can agree with you it's an all around issue but since A. They won't buff base kits much it's got to be said especially when one side is literally just a perk build with a pallette swap it is an issue and B. Look at the list of major issues that each side has and it's hard not to see the issues I have with certain perks.
-survivor issues with Killer (actual ones): camping,tunneling,slugging, noed ,slowdown builds (because of map design),certain killers (not going into much detail because some are pathetic while other are legit),constantly facing the same killers or killer types (dev issue)
-survivor issues with team mates: to me alot of this yes is solo queue and the teams acting like rats in a maze however that's what the game is marketed as so it's hard not to see there being some challenge.
-killer issues with survivors (actual ones): the meta (usually DH,DS,UB,BT COH, BO dead hard can easily be chalked up to as a safety net thanks to not what it is ment to do but what people can use it for the rest just need some tweaking such as BT and DS still being used ironically in ways that encourage camping and tunneling UB is a an anti slug perk which is fine but due to another reason it's an issue...,COH while it did get nerfed the issue isn't mainly the nerf but the mechanic as well, Boil over reason explained later), swfs,comms,bully squads ( all three of these have been brought up and have been showed to be a major issue and the reason why many want perks nerfed there's only two real reasons to fix this make a swf only mode or start banning them cause much like cheaters it's a thing outside the game that is ruining the balance especially since the game isn't factoring them),weakened killer base kits (some like deathslinger,trickster,legion, any m1 or stealth killer have been gutted to a point where people who invested into them have to switch or basically restart to square 1),mmr itself (now yes both sides suffer from this but it's mainly effecting killers cause all the swf,comm and bully squads are factored into it as well) ,map design (same as mmr)
For the grades yeah it would suck to get them removed but much like the unlockable mask it's a situation of "we can't have nice things"
For balancing I'm not a designer too it's tough I can agree but remember these devs have had a history of certain issues that have been brought up for killer and basically either saying the wrong thing,scoffing it off or in the case of one where someone said the maps were too big "don't protect the outer gens and go for the three gen" so it's hard not to get upset when they do or say questionable stuff and on the case of bt being base kit like I said you cannot take what these people say at face value any more.
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@Mooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2779862#Comment_2779862
They literally said it’s not in their hands. They can’t say more because of legal reasons. You can’t expect them to say ‚well we want it but Microsoft/Sony are asking for way too much money‘…
No but they could have just said it was due to legal and financial issues saying it's out of our hands work if it wasn't for the fact they are know to say one thing and mean another much like how many intemperate they will not make ds base kit to mean bt will be base kit. Along with times where they were trying to be nice but came off as condescending. You can't take what they say at face value any more.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2779642#Comment_2779642
He believes the Ringu chapter will be a flop.
I think most will see it as a flop given how the game is now. Why bother making more character to add problems instead of fixing the issues the game already has? And I swear it's going to be hard to think which was worst the pinhead chapter that was revealed as an nft or this because too many people quit the game.