malibu_barbie_26
malibu_barbie_26
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BHVR is trying to kill this game slowly….from both sides
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3204622#Comment_3204622
Thing is - all of these things were done to improve balance. Every single thing on that list was broken.
Twins literally not being able to reach someone before they pick themselves up is not improving balance.
Balance for whom and where???? Those changes shifted the kill rate significantly imo to Killer favor. And aint no way a game made where a Killer can phase across a map and knock you down is balance ever claimed to be considered top priority. It’s a 4v1 game so there is no balance, the scales tip slowly as the game progresses with Killers killing. Balance is never considered in when the game is evaluated on a 1v1 scale for this game (which for me is a huge issue). BHVR’s problem is they release new Killer/Survivor perk, a small subset of the player population learns to effectively play against a perk by whatever means are available in the game. BHVR considers either the new perk unbalanced or the playable counter created by the gaming population unbalanced bc of complaints of immeasurable things like toxicity, not being fair, etc BHVR makes a nerf or a buff of either the new perk or the counter and then it’s wash, rinse, and repeat. That’s what’s wrong with the game. For every example of a perk/item/add-on claiming to be unbalanced I bet there is gameplay of it being utilized appropriately against an inferior opponent who then complains and moans about resources being used effectively and them not being able to think of their own counter to gameplay. This whole scenario is effectively ruining the game across the board.
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@Tostapane said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3204686#Comment_3204686
YOU DIDN'T HAVE THE GAMEPLAY/STRATEGIES CHANGED, you can still do every kind of play that you could do before (except permasabo hooks), quite the contrary killers had to change their gameplay after each patch... if you can't win actually as survivor in this current state of the game i guess that's a skill issue from your side, since you want to put it on a personal skill level... said this, after that patch you'll see the survivor's queue time DRASTICALLY increased, and with it also the camping and tunneling present in the game... after all you deserve what you are asking...
All of those changes def impacted survivor tactics to Survive. They affected the ability to be more aggressive during matches and attempt to bait Killer away from the one survivor they are tunneling. They impacted chase, distance gained/earned, times spent in chase, etc. The nerfs to DS and OTR can carry Killer to an easy victory in End Game on the 1v1 playing field (talk about not earning something in a game). Those changes impacted the ability to get a camped hook rescues during the End Game or any other time when a save would be clutch. Those changes def took pressure off the Killer in knowing well if I tunnel Survivors not having xyz ability probability won’t or can’t be used but if it is it won’t have much impact on me getting this survivor again. Trust me all of those changes impacted how survivors played in terms of running the Killer in chase, prioritizing time spent on gen vs healing vs taking aggro vs cleaning totems which can impact the game for Survivors.
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@Tostapane said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3204622#Comment_3204622
this is pure BS:
1 they were changed because they were literally broken and unfair to go aganist, now this addon is still very powerful, but at least now you have a short window of time to counter it (add the fact that maps now are extremely safe and it's a joke to keep busy a killer for 16 seconds... only exception is a tournament nurse)
2 you have also perks for sabo hooks, not only toolboxes, but anyway, you can still sabo the hook, denying a hook for the killer and a free escape thanks to that (you can even sabo from all the directions instead of being forced to sabo in front of the hook, while killers must hook in a single direction)
3 pressure is done by doing gens, not sabo hooks without a valid reason (aka while the killer is going to hook someone in your direction, hence why that point is moot... or to be precise it's extremely situational)
4 nerfs MORE THAN DESERVED i might add (at least one of them, the other is still busted due to auto dead hard users, making it even more powerful than the previous version)... on the bright side now you have BASEKIT BT with an addicional effect (10% haste, making a survivor fast like a ranged killer) and a BT that will last for 80 seconds... so you actually have even more tools to bodyblock the killer (btw if you are unhooked and do this you DESERVE to being tunneled imo)
5 those perks were made for avoiding tunneling, not to grant you an easy win without efforts... tell me, what could do a killer in the endgame to counter those perks? that's right, you can't and i'll tell you more: those perks would be probably abused even to bodyblock the killer on purpose for denying a possible hook from another survivor...
6 because for you it was fair that a killer played without tunneling and camping and survivors rushing gens finished to 3 gen zone themself with only a death in their team, and escape by pressing a simple button, requiring no skill at all, denying all the efforts that killer made to protect the last 3 gen... keys were rightfully changed for a reason, just like moris they were a shortcut to end the game prematurely just by pressing a button...
imo killers were the ones that adapted all the time while survivors were complaining for literally everything... it's sufficient seeing the end chat after a game regarding the mindset of the people...
Im not going back and forth on what changes you think are fair. The point is all of those changes have impacted how Survivors are able to play the game and ultimately impact escape chances. There is nothing worse then playing a game a certain way then having to change how you’d handle a situation because the item/perk/add-on no longer works the way it has been for years. Survivors have had a lot of major changes to tactics over the last 3 years and if you didn’t cry about BHVR’s interference then I could care less about crying over a Killer tactic being nerfed. Learn to adapt, get good, or find some other game to play.
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@Tostapane said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3204587#Comment_3204587
so less variety of gameplay with less strategies to use... this is what they are currently doing right now: erasing the best strategies that killers have...
And they have also done this to Survivors:
- Changed iri syringe to 16 second heal and no longer instant.
- Nerfed toolboxes so that you only get 2-3 hooks to sabo each match.
- Sabo hooks take less time to respawn so less pressure on Killer from sabo hooks.
- Nerf second chance perks DS & DH.
- Nerf DS and OTR so they don’t work in EndgamE
- Nerf Hatch/Key to pretty much useless and entirely situational aspect of the game.
If you didn’t complain or see the problem with changing any of these on the survivor side you can’t say too much about slugging being nerfed. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. Killers will have to adjust.
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Not all the pallets are good pallets tho. Some are useless so there is that…but Gideon’s rework made it much nicer to play as a survivor
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@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3204527#Comment_3204527
Like literally no pallets. Just windows or vice versa
All windows no pallets
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How many pallets are you talking about? A good chase you can burn thru 2-3 pallets depending on how well you loop and mind game.
Id say Windows only because my resource is somewhat infinite where as a pallet is limited resource and it’s just a matter of time before none are left on the map.
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@Legionair11111 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201933#Comment_3201933
Sould guard gives the endurance effect when a survivor gets up from the dying state. this with the new unlimited free unbreakable is severely imbalanced
But you have to be cursed to get back up as it currently as it stands. And you only have the Endurance effect for 8 seconds max. That isn’t even enough time to get out of a Dead Zone for most M2 killer or M1 with high mobility. I don’t see it as being OP not do I think survivors are just going to stack a bunch of “get myself back up perks” together. You only get 4 perks and wasting more than 1 perk on 2nd chance perks is unwise. You need to be able to heal, do gens, have some type of Killer awareness, potential exhaustion perks, potential gen awareness etc etc…I’d like to see the changes in play and also see how the changes effect numbers before crying OP. Playing Killer needs to be a little more intense as the current kill rate and play style is tanking the game especially for SoloQ survivors.
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Devs have been getting rid of survivor strategies for years! Now the tables are turning and it’s a problem…smh
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I have no issue with Killers losing a “tactic” to Kill. Honestly survivors have had their “tactics” nerfed to the ground for the last 2-3 years to survive.
- Toolboxes are basically useless unless you bring a BNP. And you better be great at hitting them small skill checks or you basically wasted your part.
- Sabotaged hooks take less time to come back. They literally are gone for less time that it would take for a survivor to pick themselves back up.
- Key/Hatch both nerfed into oblivion. Leaving one less legitimate way to end a match.
- DS nerfed so badly you can’t even use it anymore legitimately.
- DS, OTR, not even being useful during the end game.
I really don’t care nor do I legitimately feel like having UB as basekit is taking anything away from the Killer. I am pleased that now super Nurses can’t slug their way to a 4k in under a minute with no gens done. That has been needed to be fixed for the LONGEST of time!!!
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Yall acting like Sabo builds are popular, falling under a pallet is super common, etc. All of these things are very situational and will take the Killer getting the right hit in the right place with the right group of survivors. This just gives survivors a desperately needed tool in their survivor kit. Most Killer mains will learn to adjust their play styles accordingly. The same way survivors adjust play styles to each new Killer when they come out.
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@Carth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201964#Comment_3201964
To be clear nobody, or at least most people who play both sides, thinks that 4 man slugging or slugging for hatch is fun/fair. This change impacts far more than just those two scenarios. Saboing hooks is receiving a MASSIVE buff with this idea. Say I down a survivor, pick him up, take him to the closest hook in a jungle gym(lets say 8 seconds of travel time) another survivor is there and sabos the hook when I round the corner. I don't have time to make it to another hook + deal with the bodyblock. In todays world I can drop the survivor and chase the saboer and still get pressure in that a survivor needs to get off of a gen to come pick the slug up the rest of the way. In the proposed world no one will get off gens and that survivor is going to pop up off of the ground very soon by himself, essentially erasing or losing me however much time I spent in chase to down that survivor. I did not want to slug, nor did I toxically do it to troll the person but that's literally the only play when someone sabos successfully. I can go on and list other scenarios as well(boil over, hook deadzones, swf bodyblock plays, etc) but the point is this impacts far far more than just toxic people 4 man slugging for 4 mins and hatch prevention.
I don’t see near enough Toolboxes being taken into matches for hook sabotaging. That’s like an ancient practice (unless amongst a well coordinated SWF team). Now on the chance you are being body blocked to hook or survivors are taking aggro on preventing hooks I’d say again situational (probably mostly against SWFs) and as a Killer you are going to have to figure out a play to get around that. And with each of those scenarios you are getting pressure by having 1-3 survivors off gen to save the 1. I can agree that this baskit buff for survivors will give SWFs more power but it also helps SoloQ survivors who let others bleed out bc they don’t know if Killer is chasing in the area, Killer is baiting for slugging, or just want to do gen simulator. As a SoloQ survivor I have to support any buff that helps bc right now SoloQ is in a pitiful position. I’m sure Killers will learn to adjust.
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I don’t like any changes that force a survivor or Killer to do only one thing and not have the autonomy to play only one way. That is what I’m getting from the anti-slug and auto Mori changes. DBD is only as fun as the options you have to kill as Killer and survive as survivor. Game needs less play interference if you ask me. I don’t want to be forced to do something that I don’t want to do. Or forced to do something because the consequence will change the trajectory of the match.
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@Carth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201933#Comment_3201933
Hes referring to the endurance part of soul guard which has no requirement on a hex and combos amazingly with unbreakable and the proposed any survivor can get up an infinite number of times
I guess my answer is don’t slug and the basekit unbreakable would be doing exactly what it intended to do. There’s no reason to keep multiple survivor on the ground to bleed out when you can easily just place them on hook. Now if survivors are taking aggro maybe the recover timer should move slower. That way you can’t be baited by a downed survivor.
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@Legionair11111 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201744#Comment_3201744
Imagine soul guard with this update, I agree its not an US vs THEM situation, but this update would SEVERELY imbalance the game
Soul Guard is very situational and you would need to bring a Hex totem.
@CosmicScarab said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201744#Comment_3201744
Unfortunately that doesn't help against SWFs or just decent survivors who go down under a pallet or go down in the open with a flashlight user around. This change will make it so killers have no way to counter people doing this and I honestly can't think of a perk that would help this.
Again situational perks which once pallets are used up become less and less meaningful.
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- How does any killer know if a single survivor has been hiding the whole game? You can’t be everywhere at once. The survive could be really good at safe unhooks, splitting time between gens and hiding, and running several perks or bringing items to keep them far away from the Killer.
- If you are stealth mode the whole match and not working on the objective you are hurting your team. Don’t stand around or urban around the map hiding in a corner waiting for hatch. That’s awful game play! Worse than camping/tunneling play style as Killer.
- If you snitch in the match whether by running to the survivor working on the gen or chat you deserve whatever come uppins you get in the match.
- However if I’m doing a gen and get caught in chase/hooked and I see a survivor actively hiding in a corner of the map & killer decides to tunnel me I am 100% running the Killer to that corner and snitching on the hiding survivor. You better be on a gen or totem if I’m hanging on a hook. Doing the objective is the only way to make hooks count.
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Killers will never be scary for me. I don’t scared in DBD. Too many hours played , plus killers play relatively the same way each match (camp/tunnel, slugging, etc), there is little to no suspense or terror in matches because as a survivor this game is designed for my failure. Terror makes me jumpy…the closest thing I get to that is when I hear a terror radius and I don’t know where the killer is coming from. The most suspense I ever get is having 2 survivors in the match and exit doors needing to be opened and the doors are close and not knowing who is going to escape. Terror and suspense deal with the unknown element and for all intensive purposes this game doesn’t have that by design. I know going into a match as a survivor I am more likely to die than make it. That’s the devs’ goal. The better goal is no one knows who’s going to survive until a few gens pop. But that’s not the gameplay survivors are getting.
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As a baby killer I too am faced with these SWFs that are challenging. I wait for an opportunity and try to capitalize off their mistakes of being so bold and brash. I once went against two identical Steve’s running the flash light perk Residual Effect. They’d bait me in a chase gl down by a locker and the other would sprint out and blind me once I picked up the survivors.. Well after several minutes of that I just slugged it out for the remaining of the match. The other 2 survivors were just as toxic but without flashlights. I had no hesitation in killing all of them. I’m so bad at killer I usually just farm but once they started w the toxic behavior I decided they all would die no exception. I was playing Spirit for the first time in my DBD history so I understand being outmatched and played.
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Wow this feature is new to me as I play on console. I was wondering what was going on w my matches because I have cross play enabled. It’s really unfair that PC players have some features surrounding the game that console will never be able to have.
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• Plagues vomit lasts way too long on gens.
• Sudako shouldn’t be able to spam her birds way across the map to the furthest gens. Needs a range limit
•Bubba should have been reworked. As it stands his chainsaw is too OP when face camping. Chainsaw should stop after hitting a survivors or object in the environment.
•Billy needs a buff. He is fun to play against but would like him to be reworked.
•I’d like to not get hit if I’m thru a window. This mechanic is 100% Killer sided.
•Flashlights should have a cool down after a successful blind
•The wiggle mechanism should be somewhat sped up to which if a killer isn’t equipping agitation and iron grasp the killer shouldn’t get you into the basement passing 2-3 hooks.
•The tutorial should explain some basic strategy points to both Killers and Survivors that are new to the game.
•Teabagging/shaking heads etc means absolutely nothing other than what you want it to mean.
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@toxik_survivor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/345979/longest-match
Me and my friend hid the whole game on the swamp map. Prob and 1 hour and 30 minutes. One of the funnest games of our lives cause we ran a stealth build and it was a pin head so we had to be extra sneaky. He walked by us so many times and we slowly got 5 gens done just the 2 of us. We ended up escaping and it was one of the craziest matches ever.
How did y’all avoid chain hunt and him teleporting to you while doing it? I know it’s possible but for a whole hour? Gosh
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You were being proxy camped so it’s not really the survivors fault for not rescuing you. BUT they should have been on gens!!!!
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I can already hear the toxicity coming thru the speaker….people would be yelling at the Claudette self-caring in the corner… but comma are a usual feature in most multiplayer games so I’m ok with it.
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@Zolfo16 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/345652/old-hatch-key
The equivalent of the old keys were the old moris. Are you allowed to escape with your friend if you have the right key even if you not completed the task required? Well the killer now is allowed to kill you even if he do not completed all the hook stages because he has the right mori.
Trust me, noone will have fun in this kind of games.
I def had more fun w old hatch key and mori. And secondly bringing back old hatch/key doesn’t necessarily require to bring back old mori. Devs can do one without the other. As it stands a 3v1 with 5-4 gens left to complete means killer has already won. This game needs more balance mid-game in determining outcome of the match.
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I have played this game for 4 years. This game is a shell from what it used to be. Not in an absolute bad way. I understand some things needed to change (BNP and pre-sabo hooks, map reworks) but I feel like survivor tools to actually survive have been whittled down to bare bones. It’s difficult to take defense as a survivor and pallets only lasts for so long. There needs to be some tweaking so that game outcome isn’t decided within the first 2-3 minutes of gameplay by either side. My gameplay has reduced significantly in the last year because I personally feel like the devs meddle a little too much in how they want the game play to go. They don’t consider the nuance of playing with complete strangers and all of their actions being randomly good or bad for the progression of the game and almost any perk can be utilized in a toxic way at some point in the game. Some perks don’t need nerfing or buffing and are completely situational. Instead of improving the situation in which the perks would be used they change the perk to be useless in that situation.
I also don’t like wasting my blood points on items I will NEVER use. This is a feature that should have been tweaked.
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@MommyHunktress said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3179346#Comment_3179346
sorry but have you tried doing m1 huntress? also as far as i know nvidia isnt cheating hence why everyone uses it
I have played as Huntress and considering that filter isn’t readily available across all platforms I’d consider it an exploit.
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So you want to cheat?
Just practice and follow scratch marks.
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I can’t see any Killer complaining about Haddonfield as it sits right now. Especially coming from the layout of Old Haddonfield.
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@lauraa said:
No they are not, it is a Battle Royale party game.
If it were a team game youd see more Bonds over Urban Evasion
I’ve seen Bond used to run Killer to a survivor on a progressing gen to try and get Killer out of the chase. Let’s not act like Bond is always used to help the objective. Sometimes it’s used to help that one survivor.
If you want to escape you play the game as a team:
Safe unhooks
Healing w/o missing skill checks
Do gens w/o missing skill checks preferably with a teammate
Take a hit if you see someone being tunneled.
If you have 0 hooks take aggro if two of your teammates have 1-2 hooks.
Try to run the killer away from completed gens.
Use good map awareness when completing gens, try not to create a 3 gen area.
Affer the exit gates are powered on it’s 100% solo from then. Don’t run the killer to a gate you know is being open being the only common sense rule.
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So essentially you want to make the Boon less problematic based on where it’s placed on the map. Even tho where it’s placed can continually change as long as there is a dull totem. This will essentially drive down the pressure for the Killer to look for said totem and keep their focus on chases, hooking, and gen pressure. I’d disagree. Survivors have enough secondary pressure from enough Killer perks and abilities that force survivors to put their primary objectives on hold. I don’t see why Killers shouldn’t be placed in the same situation. Either deal with the totem or focus on your primary objective.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
This might be an unpopular opinion, but I think the real problem here (especially with the gen time increase) is that hook stages just aren’t long enough. If you really want to punish camping and weaken perks like deadlock when used for camping, make it take longer.
Reassurance is just a bandaid fix. Nothing more.
You are on to something here. If hook stages took longer then this would give more time for a safe rescue and prevent Killers from hard camping a hook.
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@AshInTheTallGrass said:
Genuine question for anyone who cares to respond, including OP. With the new MMR system, escaping via the hatch doesn't count as a "win." If BHVR brought back old keys and hatch mechanics, would you be okay with it if the MMR system continued to not count that as an escape?
For some people, I suspect the answer is no. For others, the thrill of not getting hooked and leaving via the hatch is motive enough. Some Killers might also have different opinions. If they aren't negatively impacted pip-wise (or perhaps even BP-wise) by hatch escapes, would it be a problem?
Is the hatch issue more about pips/points, or just about how the game ends?
For more context:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/319607/giving-the-hatch-is-punished-pips-wise
Honestly I could care less about MMR. I see it as an imaginary system that doesn’t really have much impact on matchmaking. Matchmaking is a mess in of itself and you can never guess the behavior of your teammates or killer in game. The Killer that camped and tunneled last game could farm and be friendly the next. The teammates that take aggro last game can easily be hiding all game doing nothing. So MMR is just a thing that influences so little in my perspective. I just honestly want another scenario to add pressure in the game once it’s down to 3v1. I would be ok with what others have stated hatch spawning at 2-1 gens left on map and keys working to let 1 survivor out at a time.
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@darksouls3600 said:
No, bad idea.
SWFs "let's make 4 gens really fast (and now survs have hyper focus and others gen rush perks) and one of us ######### on hook, and we scape make the killer frustrating even if he don't tunnel or camping."
This is a thing that happen a lot with old keys and hatch.
I’d say in this scenario doing 4 gens really fast won’t happen in the current game setting especially with the buff to regression perks AND if it did happen that 4 team SWF obviously outplayed the Killer to get 4 gens done in a short amount of time and more than likely would get a the last gen done so Hatch wouldn’t really change anything in terms of them getting out alive.
Again balancing the game around SWFs will hose solo Q survivors which is whole different rabbit hole I won’t go down in this thread.
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@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3177666#Comment_3177666
Yea but I don't like when 2 gens get done then there's a 4man escape before I could really play any strategy....old hatch was a bad concept. Asany said the old method promoted tunneling even more because of the threat of a Key in the match.
Now if I see a Key I don't worry about it until they may be the last survivor and can take care of them when it's just two survivors left
Old hatch never spawned with 4 survivors in the game unless ALL gens were done. If it spawned with 2 gens left at least 1 survivor was dead already. You’d at least get a kill.
And I don’t like it when a survivor is dead with only 1 gen being done because 1 survivor spent the time looking for a totem and setting boon and the other was hiding while the other was chased and placed on hook and I was on the gen (and that doesn’t include gens being knocked down bc of Jolt, Eruption, or any other gen disruption).
Once the game is down to 3v1 the game stalls on the survivor side and progresses fast on the Killer side (even without camping or tunneling accounted for).
Amd Killers Will tunnel no matter what, the Key only gave the Killer someone to focus on from the start and not a random survivor. If anything the survivor with the Key would be more stealthy and the Killer may waste time looking for them. It all comes down to choices and consequences.
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@ausanimal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3177685#Comment_3177685
What happens when the survivors 3 gen themselves its pretty much the middle finger to the killer and a escape they didn't earn, some killers need to plan for a 3 gen, survivors 3 gen themselves why should they be rewarded for messing up and putting themselves in that hard spot.
Games like this will never be fully balanced no matter what they put in place if the killer gets a early kill then it's 3 vs 1 making it harder on survivors but then if survivors get 3-4 gens done and killer has only got a couple hooks then it leans towards the survivors.
One example is F13th game in a 20 min match the first 10min the counselors have a bit of a upper hand as they can fight back but when it its 10 min max the power balance swaps and only a few things will stun him at that point. So for the first 10 min its a race to get out and as more people get killed the harder it becomes
I understand the concept of a 3 gen and it’s a strategy that Killers can use to help them win. It doesn’t always work but can work when used effectively. A 3v1 early in a game w 5 gens to be done has historically favored the killer with no counter. The Killer makes that choice to tip the balance in their favor for a 3v1. A 3 gen occurs by survivors shooting themselves in the foot and having little to no map awareness. And even with a 3 gen survivors can counter with teaming up on gens and getting maximum spread between the last 2 gens. And survivors who gen rush can get shot in the foot with NOED or even Blood Warden if they aren’t careful. Again there is the potential to balance things out. It just seems to me having g a 3v1 at. 5-4 gens heavily rips the scales to the Killer whereas a 3v1 with 3-2 gens is still anyone’s game. I feel like both sides should have the suspense of not knowing who’s going to survive as long as possible. With old hatch/key yeah sometimes the game ended early, sometimes all gens got done and exit gates got powered up but what didn’t happen was a Killer knowing they had won with only 1-2 gens popped. And with old hatch/key survivors still had to traverse the map to find the hatch, giving opportunity to be chased and hooked.
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@ausanimal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3177638#Comment_3177638
And your saying none of the killer perks got nerfed and that only survivor perks got nerfed survivors got BT put into basekit but that must of been a nerf, Face camping has nothing to do with old hatch and keys and how broken it was same as moris which is why they changed them both. Not every player will face camp and not every killer can face camp well like Bubba you can't bring back one without bringing back the other as both work on the same principals they both can end the match early.
Old hatch and key would implement a new option for survivors stuck in a 3v1 gameplay other then just doing gens. It would give some incentive to continue to play reasonably to get enough gens done to at least get hatch to spawn and give the killer another point of pressure. Once the game gets down to 3v1 it stalls on the survivor side and progresses very fast on the Killer side. There needs to be a balance to this.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3177666#Comment_3177666
Uou hide in a corner. Your team mates do 3 gens and get themselves found by the killer for it. You get to escape for free.
Sorry no, I don't agree.
It was absolutely hopeless as a killer when you're in the middle of a game, still defending gens, when suddenly the game just ends because the remaining survivors found the hatch. There is no counter to that.
More escape options are find, but you make it available after the exit gates are powered.
You mention one scenario. You already have survivors urban around the map not doing gens and hiding in lockers. A key isn’t going to change that aspect of toxicity. I’m just providing one option for games that are 3v1 from the first 3 min of game play maybe less if the person kills themselves or DC’s. Survivors stuck in a 3v1 should have some hope of escaping. Devs cannot balance around every scenario good or bad
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@Seraphor said:
Old hatch mechanics was survivors escaping without completing their objectives.
Camping is the killer fastracking their objective.
They are not the same.
The survivor still got found, downed and hooked, which is the killers objective loop.
How many times does it need to be said that survivors are not entitled to every hook state. The game isn't "get hooked twice but not three times." You're supposed to avoid getting hooked entirely.
There are counters to camping, and there is more they can do to make camping more costly for killers. Thats what they need to do.
Last time I checked with old hatch and key you had to complete 3 gens in order for hatch to spawn w 2 survivors alive or do all or 2 gens with 1 survivor left alive. Doing gens is apart of the survivors objective and you had to earn the hatch to spawn by doing gens and participating in the game. Again my beef isn’t with camping or tunneling it’s giving survivors options outside of “just do gens” when you are left in a 3v1 gameplay early in the game (often by face camping). Survivors need more escape options as a 3v1 is just a 4K waiting to happen and everyone knows the game gets stalled on the survivor side once that 3v1 wall is hit and progresses very fast on the killer side. This game is about strategy and taking options (on killing or surviving) away from either side has left this game feeling like a ghost of what it was 2 years ago, at least from my limited survivor perspective.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3177616#Comment_3177616
True, let me correct myself: multiple survs shouldn't be able to escape with gens left. There was nothing okay about the old system.
And having the old hatch in play incentivized tunneling even more. I know a lot people who saw a key in lobby and tunneled out the person carrying it, and in that instance I didn't really see an issue with it.
The old key/hatch system needs to stay in the bin.
And just because the Key Holder got tunneled out doesn’t mean the key left. Many of times survivors could poach a key and use it to escape at 2-3 gens remaining on map. Killers are going to face camp and tunnel period that’s a game mechanic. However it shouldn’t be without a threat of others escaping due to luck and strategy.
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@ausanimal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3177590#Comment_3177590
Now lets flip the coin and and say the key and hatch comes back then the moris will have to come back and after hooking survivors once, some killers have next to no map pressure or anti loop skills so moris will now be punishment for gen rushing when vs a killer with no map pressure or anti loop. Both changes to moris and key/hatch was needed to make it more of a balanced game.
With the way the current setup survivors are not guaranteed 2 or 3 hooks which makes Moris a mute issue for me. Face camping means you literally don’t get off your first hook ever. Moris do not need to be buffed because killers have had many perks and movement buff. Along with plenty of survivor perks being nerfed.
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@KerJuice said:
The nerf to Hatch was good & healthy for the game. Even though I had a lot of fun with it over the years, it needed to go. I would take it even a step further and remove hatch offerings and leave it up to pure RnG.
One thing they should revert though is requiring there to be a pause/meter when opening a locked hatch with a key. That was a bit much. It should be instant like before.
Yes good and healthy when D strike and Dead Hard were actually worth carrying. Back when pallets and missed hits gave the survivor back some time. Now both of those perks aren’t worth bringing anymore and the survivors don’t have nearly the same amount of time in chase even with good looping and mind gaming. I say the game could use more strategy on the survivor side besides just doing 5 gens.
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@ByeByeQ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3177569#Comment_3177569
What is your point here?
If the old hatch & key mechanic were still in the game would it magically make the game better for survivors?
Or would that Clown who likes to run Party Bottles (me) swap out the Party Bottles for nastier addons like maybe a Pinky Finger whenever they see a key in their lobby? (I would.)
I don't think bringing back the old hatch & key mechanic would have a positive effect on the game in any way.
They can’t balance the game around individual killers or their add one (hello nurse). Bringing back the old hatch and key would be a punishment for face camping at gen 5. As the game stands killers have stated repeatedly their game gets easier when they wheedle down the survivors to 3 v1. Survivors need more than “just do gens” strategy once you get down to 3v1 especially when you are in early game with 4-5 gens needing to be done. Adding back old hatch/key would bring additional strategy to the survivor side. If killers want to face camp fine and they should have consequences other than a 4k being the outcome.
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@ByeByeQ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3177548#Comment_3177548
Bringing back old keys and hatch mechanics is not the right approach.
They need to give killers good incentives to leave the hook. Like old BBQ & Chili or the old Pain Resonance notification. They took away the good incentives for killers to leave the hook and now you see more camping. It's a natural evolution of gameplay brought on by BHVR's own bad decisions.
Make Your Choice
BBQ & Chili
Pop
Pain Resonance (even without it) were all good incentives to leave hook and apply gen pressure and get downs. Camping has always been a part of the game and will always be. I’m just saying old hatch and key made killers have consequences that were tangible for doing it at 5 gens bc they weren’t necessarily guaranteed another kill bc survivors could escape with 3-4 gens done. Now the killers can camp with no consequence bc once the game is 3v1 the odds are considerably in the killers favor for a 4K.
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@ByeByeQ said:
Actually I remember the counter to old keys now. It was to bring an Ebony Mori and back then you only needed to hook a survivor once to mori them.
One broken overpowered thing had to be used to counter another broken overpowered thing.
Well unless the survivors brought old Styptics and Needles as well which were instaheals back then too.
So many games where the killer got a 1K and the survivors let that survivor die just so they could cheese it out the hatch with a key instead of getting that last gen done.
Aaahhh yes the good old days (sarcasm). I get the sentiment of only getting 1K. Hear me out tho….now with having to do all 5 gens killers are now guaranteed at least a 2K if they are face camping at the very start of the match. I doesn’t even matter about the face camping I’m just saying what’s good for the goose should be good for the gander in terms of strategies on both sides of the game. If killers can face camp, slug, and tunnel to kill why can’t survivors employ every strategy to survive?
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@psionic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3177493#Comment_3177493
I know it's frustrating being camped, but it's the survivor's fault for being downed with 5 gens remaining.
It’s not even frustrating I just want other escape routes for whomever remains in the trial. If you want to face camp fine but don’t be mad when everyone slides out the match via hatch. Killers and survivors all have consequences to their actions. I think the devs taking away the hatch spawn and nerfing keys took away another survival strategy which should be brought back to bring some balance.
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@Pulsar said:
Disagree.
Keys were dumb.
Being able to simply say, "You, you don't get to play anymore" is also dumb.
Let's get rid of the dumb stuff, yeah?
And this is exactly what killers do when you camp on first hook w 5 gens needing to be done. At least with 2 or 1 gen left the killer was able to hook and kill 1 to 3 survivors and actually got to play a game. Getting face camped before you touch a gen is literally not even getting a chance to play the match. Key and random hatch placement was a legitimate strategy for survivors before the devs took it away. Survivors have had their survival strategies wheedled down to either be toxic w flashlights and lockers and 2-3 good loops per map that won’t last once the pallets are gone. And your SOL if you have killers who can camp loops for downs (Sudako & company).
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Why even have brown anything available? I wish I could cash in my unused offerings and items/add-one. And just getting half BP back would give me an easy 2mil blood points.
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I keep an ongoing list of sandbagging survivors in my phone. I just type in the name and if anything pops up I leave the lobby. It’s sad but I’ve been burned too many times. I’d like to see something put in place to at least make those who sandbag unmatchable if all teammates agree they threw the game for the killer. Especially when having a 3 SWF with that one random solo player urban around the mail or deliberately bringing killer to injured teammates due to bond.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3147390#Comment_3147390
Going too far away from a hook, just because survivors —might— be at one of the generators that are spread across the entire map, is not an effective use of a killers time, and it’s certainly not a positive motivator to leave a hooked survivor.
As the game progresses the areas to which survivors will be gets smaller and your chances increase on finding survivors. Its not that hard