CosmicScarab
CosmicScarab
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@hastarkis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3213047#Comment_3213047
So what's the solution then? Remove agency from all other players? It won't work. Like, I agree there IS the loop. I don't like they have free out of jail card too. But you can't fix this problem with your suggested way and not create NEW even greater problems instead. Honestly, your solution looks more like "I want you suffer with me or be punished!!!!". You don't want the solution, you want them suffer. Like, yeah, okay, but... it's not a solution :D
Remove the ability to suicide on hook and let them DC normally? They aren't forced to play that way but if they keep doing it every game they will be punished for it.
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@hastarkis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3213047#Comment_3213047
So what's the solution then? Remove agency from all other players? It won't work. Like, I agree there IS the loop. I don't like they have free out of jail card too. But you can't fix this problem with your suggested way and not create NEW even greater problems instead. Honestly, your solution looks more like "I want you suffer with me or be punished!!!!". You don't want the solution, you want them suffer. Like, yeah, okay, but... it's not a solution :D
Remove the ability to suicide on hook and let them DC normally?
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Until Sadako gets some buffs that is the only really viable way to play her.
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>The best way to fix suicides (or any other base mechanic without removing it) is to heal as many reasons why people make decision to suicide as possible.
The problem is people will suicide on hook over the smallest things. It is literally impossible to please some people.
>Let them leave my game, please, I want finish it in a honorable 3v1 battle (not 3v1v1) and die in peace. At least my mmr will be lowered less after their death x)
They can leave the game, but they should have to deal with the penalty that comes with that. No one is saying people should be unable to DC.
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@TotemSeeker91 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3212894#Comment_3212894
But, yeah I see you said it in your first post, but you literally can't force someone to stay in the game, first rule of video games: it has to be fun for the consumer, if they aren't having fun, you can't keep them
And as much as it might shock you, but with 7 something billion people in the world, someone enjoys disconnecting and ruining others games
So if they remove killing themselves on hook they can still DC, they will just have to deal with the penalty that comes with that.
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I genuinely don't understand why it is hard for people to not rage quit. Why queue up for a team based game if you are going to just intentionally throw the game and ruin it for your team.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3212969#Comment_3212969
You're starting to grate on me and I'm not sure why.
If the Killer has 6 hooks before any gens are done, I'm not gonna bother sticking around after I get hooked, sorry. It's better to go next and forget about it.
That kind of sounds like are intentionally throwing the game because it didn't go the way you wanted.
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I'm just surprised there are still no balance changes for Sadako or Twins. How long has that Twins rework been in the works now?
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3210236#Comment_3210236
How is removing a feature (characteristic) that people have enjoyed and associated with DBD all these years being removed good for the game? At a time when people are definitely not enjoying survivor, this is the worst thing you can do.
You're right. The worst possible change DBD could make is making it harder to give people with photosensitivity epilepsy seizures.
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I'm surprised to see NOED so high still. It seems so much easier to deal with after the changes that I haven't had a problem with it.
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@SmarulKusia said:
I mean, you've exemplarily provided why basekit unbreakable won't break the game - unlike giving the power-role that is dominating in the win-rates base-kit perks (On top of Unique powers).
1 in 20, but I'd probably say 1 in 30 or 40.
If you don't slug, this change won't affect you.
Every single killer slugs whether they want to or not, it is unavoidable in certain situations. How do you deal with a survivor who is under a pallet? Slugging. How do you deal with a survivor who is down in the open while someone is ready to flashlight save? Slugging. How do you deal with someone with boil over in a dead zone or high up? Slugging. Ever certain killers like Plague, Myers, Twins or Oni are designed to slug.
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@Sluzzy said:
Overpowered strategies need to be dealt with, BHVR is simply not addressing them fast enough. It took way too long to address slugging. One of the last matches I played was a Blight all he did was slug everyone. It's not fun.
So gen rushing with things like hyperfocus, BNP and prove thyself should be nerfed as well, right?
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@Bardon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3203092#Comment_3203092
Slugging is a crutch?
Twins would like a word, please. Slugging is not only inevitable but it's impossible for Twins to avoid unless they never use their power - and with 22s slugs due to unlimited 100% Unbreakable? Congrats, BHVR have successfully destroyed a killer.
Hell, not just twins. Myers, Oni, and Plague all need to slug or their power gets wasted. With slugging being encouraged on certain killers and perks being built around slugging like deerstalker it feels so weird to see these changes.
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There are solutions to situations like this that don't require giving survivors another base kit perk though. We could have the ability to give up when everyone is slugged, similar to killing yourself on the hook. Slugging is something that is outright encouraged on some killers like Oni, Myers, Plague or Twins, or even the only viable way to play them like Sadako. Why should a strategy as killer, especially one that you need to do on certain killers because how they are designed, be removed entirely purely because some people do things like this?
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3206808#Comment_3206808
Maybe not always but a majority of the time. There is no opportunity for survivors to come back from a bad start unless the killer simply screws up royally. If someone goes down within 15 seconds of the match starting, then you can pretty much know already the match is a goner. Survivors need a gen or two done before someone is hooked because the killer gets so much pressure from someone being hooked or slugged.
If survivors go down in 15 seconds of the match starting something has gone seriously wrong. The only way that is going to happen is if a killer spawns next to an AFK survivor.
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@Sluzzy said:
Hook suicide is a symptom of an unbalanced game. Killers can always come back from a bad start with strategies, survivors don't have a way to come back. If survivors feel the match is unwinnable, it is why they suicide.
Killers cannot always just come back with strategies. Against good survivors, especially SWFs you are sometimes just screwed depending on who you are playing or what the survivors are running. Also, survivors suicide on hook for a lot more than just feeling a match is unwinnable. I've had people suicide on the first hook of the game more times than I could count.
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@My_Aespa said:
There is no way every single game you play is against a SWF, and people in low MMR is SWF too... you can't tell what someone's MMR is anyway. I think you just got outplayed on a few games and decided to rant about it.
On Steam you can see who is a SWF if they are also on Steam by viewing their friends, and trust me, they are VERY common.
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@KateMain86 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3206242#Comment_3206242
Killer mains created the problem that demanded the solution. The solution happened and now killer mains are mad about it. Its amazing how when a toxic playstyle is addressed so many people suddenly decide to be vocal about it. Makes me think they were the ones participating in the toxic playstyles. Maybe its time for a new generation of killer mains.
How is slugging a toxic playstyle? Slugging is something the game and specific killers have been built around. Go play Myers, Oni, Twins, or Plague without slugging and see how that works. I also suppose flashlights should be removed because they can be used in toxic ways or killers should get lightborn base kit because its mean when survivors blind them?
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@jajay119 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3206278#Comment_3206278
No offence but if you're chasing one person, who is probably the designated 'looper' of the group, for like 2 minutes then that's a you problem. I see so many killers do this - no gen pressure, no attempt to break off and try a different approach. Its like they get blind sighted. I was on Eyrie of Crows and a Wesker was just chasing this one Jake round a rock while I was doing a gen right close by. He must have seen me. Even when the Gen popped he refused to change tact. Its hardly surprising that two other gens popped shortly thereafter. But I feel like he would be a prime example of one of these killers who screams about gens popping and SWFs when the actual reality is he have given up the chase. I'm not implying this is something you do, but there is a possibility, and I see a LOT of killers who do this.
You don't need to be in a chase for two mins for gens to pop. With things like hyperfocus or BNP toolboxes you can get gens done in absolutely insane speeds. I'm talking like less than 45 seconds, solo. You won't see build like that every game but they are becoming increasingly common and when they do appear you cannot really do anything about it.
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The idea behind it isn't awful but I feel like unbreakable is going to make it absolutely busted. If a survivor goes down and you cannot pick them up at the moment (under a pallet or in the open while a flashlight user is nearby) you are basically in a lose lose situation where you have just lost a down.
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@WorthlessBeing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3206628#Comment_3206628
You know, I've even got reported for being nice, and insulted. There's no winning against toxicity, is there?
As killer you get insulted no matter how you play. I've been insulted for giving hatch or letting someone go, I've been insulted for winning while 12 hooking, I've been insulted for sweating against sweaty genrush builds. it's crazy, no matter what you do as killer you treated like garbage. At this point I just have given up on trying to please survivors and just playing in whatever the most fun or effective way is.
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The totems that spawn on the raised hills on certain maps are literally the worst. When I see them I can't help but wonder why they even exist.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
For a long while my take was that Killer had more good perks, but surv had a handful that were straight up busted (which is why the surv meta was so stale for so long). But the worst offenders among those have been nerfed, so I am not really seeing any sort of perk disparity at this point.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/348178/why-do-survivors-get-stronger-perks
DH was insane/broken, now it is fine. Lucky Break is good (mostly when used with another perk or two), but certainly not "insane". Hyperfocus and Reassurance can be really strong, situationally. Half the time they're just kind of...there.
Maybe I am missing something, but looking ay surv perks now, I am just not seeing anything OP, and certainly not disproportionately strong relative to what I can run as killer.
I wouldn't say hyperfocus is situational, you get value out of it every single game, unlike something like reassurance.
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@AverageKateMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3203093#Comment_3203093
Um they fixed that perk in less than a weak. I'll give you CoH since that had to go through 2 nerfs. But like I said for the most part, overly broken stuff isn't allowed on release
Broken stuff still gets through without nerfs, just take a look at hyperfocus, being released.
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Survivors that unhook while the killer is still close to the hook are my pet peeve
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@SmarulKusia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3203813#Comment_3203813
Just because something is meta, doesn't mean that someone should HAVE to bring it.
If you have perks that are solutions to your problems and then don't use them then that's on you and you shouldn't complain. Survivors have much more flexibility in what they can bring now so it is very easy to free up a perk slot to counter tunneling or camping if they are so common.
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@sonata93 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202948#Comment_3202948
You're also forgetting killers also got: buffed gen speeds, stackable meta gen regression/slow-down perks, buffed bloodlust, and all the previous survivor meta ("second chance") perks got major nerfs and became useless in the end-game. "10% action speed buff and reworked DH" are major understatements of the buffs killers got in the July update. The 'tantrum' came from the fact that tunneling/camping - the two most despised strategies - got major buffs and became easier and more rewarding than ever in 6.1.0.
I do agree, however, that the basekit Unbreakable is ridiculously strong. We need to remember, though, this will be a PTB and BHVR will make significant changes before they even consider taking it live. Look at OTR, COH, etc - all these overpowered game updates got major nerfs after the feedback from their respective PTB's.
I wish people would stop throwing around the gen speed changes as if they matter. Literally one patch later survivors got hyperfocus, so gens actually go by faster than before. Also the doesn't it say something when now killers have to stack multiple gen regression perks simply to reach the level they are at before this update leaving them with no build variety?
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@Mandy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3203705#Comment_3203705
Whilst I completely understand the points you are making and appreciate it's not always the easiest thing to record video. You can do this from consoles (unfortunately not Switch), following the procedure here: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/66835/recording-evidence-for-your-player-report
Why has a replay system not been added so that players don't have to be constantly recording? Given how prominent cheaters are and how archaic the report system is it would at least let people report if they are not constantly recording their games. As it is right now it seems like the only people who can really report cheaters are streamers.
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@Dwight_Fairfield said:
I wonder would we have gotten this statement at all if Otz and Spookyloopz had not spoken up about it.
I honestly kind of doubt it. It seems like it is too much of a coincidence that those videos came out and right away BHVR responds.
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Proxy camping is such a silly term. If a killer is not in chase they should be expected to patrol between the gens and the hook, as those are the most likely places they will find survivors. If you happen to get caught while going for the unhook should the killer just look at you, nod, and walk away to do other things? No, they should chase you and someone else should go for the unhook.
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Hopefully we will be able to report people in game and not need to record all of our matches in order to actually send a report, because last time I tried to send a report I was just told there was nothing that could be done because I had no video.
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202512#Comment_3202512
There is not very much hope in matches any more. Killers have been buffed to where most survivors have no chance at all to win. Solo is unplayable. They are small in that they address only the slugging part, but for the most part survivors will still be losing.
Survivors are only losing in low MMR. If you are up against a good team of high MMR survivors or even just a SWF that is coordinated you will see that survivors don't actually have it that bad, its purely low MMR that brings the kill rate up so high.
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@Sluzzy said:
I hope you are joking. They had to do something, at least a little, to help as survivors were leaving in masses. It would have been good if they rolled back some of the killer buffs but at least base-kit unbreakable is something. Slugging was too strong and boring. Killers are still grossly overpowered even with these very small changes.
I don't think survivors were leaving in droves. The killer queue time went up, sure, but a brand new killer who is from an incredibly popular franchise just came out. Also steamcharts shows an increase in players, so I'm wondering where this idea that all the survivors are leaving is coming from.
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@Crowman said:
I think it's fine that people are giving feedback on what was revealed. People just need to keep in mind these changes aren't going live in 6.3.0 so there's time for BHVR to make adjustments.
I remember when people said this about boons when they first got on the PTB. I wish I could trust that BHVR would balance it but history has shown they don't like to touch things on the PTB in significant ways.
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There are better ways than removing it from the game. Honestly giving solo queue voice comms and balancing around that is probably the best bet.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202458#Comment_3202458
Hard disagree. It shouldn't take you 45 seconds to find the nearby survivor that is trying to go for pallet for flashlight save.
And if the survivor went down in the middle of nowhere, you can just smack them down again as soon as they pick themselves up, unless they are running Soul Guard. The instance with Boil Over could maybe become a problem, but I doubt it. It's such a rarity, and Boil Over in general just isn't a good perk anyways.
I am positive this change will be healthy for the game.
I think boil over will become a lot more popular if the changes go through as they are. I also think that any of these situations should be considered with unbreakable, because it is very difficult to down a survivor in 22 seconds and make it back to the other survivor with anyone but Nurse. I do think the change could be a healthy one, but not without remedies to the other situations. I dread going up against SFWs if this goes through.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202432#Comment_3202432
Yeah exactly. But the person I was replying to is that such a mechanic needs to be counterbalance by survivors being broken the entire match, which isn't true. Because No Mither is an incredibly bad perk.
Not to mention that it will take 45 seconds instead of 30 seconds to pick yourself up. It won't be op in any way, I am pretty positive. The new Unbreakeable perk is the only thing that will be problematic.
Ah, my bad I missed that.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202080#Comment_3202080
You can accuse people that don't agree with you of not using their brains all you want, won't change the fact that it really is just an overreaction.
This basekit change is not like Unbreakeable. Unbreakeable let's you pick yourself up within like 25 seconds or so, this will take 45 seconds. That's quite the difference. It will really only nerf hard slugging multiple survivors at once, which in the long run, is also very healthy for the game. Maybe it will need some counterbalancing? But I seriously doubt it, actually.
I guess the only thing that makes this change not amazing to me is the fact that camping and tunneling are bigger problems that need more addressing. But who knows, maybe we will see some more changes in the coming update regarding at least camping as well, I would at least hope so.
It literally will not only affect slugging multiple survivors. When a survivor goes down under a pallet, when a survivor goes down in the open while a flashlight user is around, when a survivor goes down in a high place not near hooks with boil over. All of those are situations where you get shafted if you pick someone up right away, and that's not even mentioning the killers who rely on slugging like Plague, Myers, Twins and Oni.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202058#Comment_3202058
There is a reason why most people think No Mither is a terrible perk.
No, it's just overreaction, like so much on these forums to be fair. Slugging simply won't be as strong anymore, but that is probably a good thing for the game. It's just weird for that to be addressed while camping and tunneling are still such a problem. But yeah, 45 seconds is quite a bit of time anyways, it won't be a big problem at all. It's definitely healthy for the game, just as nerfs to camping and tunneling would be.
Whether it might need some counterbalancing is to be seen, but honestly, I doubt it. It really won't have too much of an impact, it will probably hurt sweaty slugging Nurses the most, which is honestly a really good thing, cause that is just completely broken anyways.
No Mither is a terrible perk despite having one of the strongest upsides because you lose a health state permanently. You don't lose a health state with this base kit unbreakable. That's the difference.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202170#Comment_3202170
Stay at pallet to down purposely is certainly exploitable with this change. But its still only if the disturbing survivor can stay annoying for 45sec, if they success, they earn it.
I dont like this change either. But Un basekit complaining is over react for me.
But it is 22 seconds with unbreakable, and repeatable. Even the worst survivor holding W should be able to distract a killer for that long, there is nothing to "earn". Before this you had only had to worry about this happening once but with it being repeatable there is literally no way for a killer to counter this unless they are someone like nurse who can end chases extremely fast, and the last thing BHVR should do is encourage people to play nurse.
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@Rovend said:
People need to properly test it and come to their own conclusions.
If you think the unbreakable basekit was not needed, you surely have not been bled out constantly just for griefing, or being slugged to ensure that 4k, which are awful situations that MUST BE ADRESSED.
Said that, i cant speak about the balance of this change until i properly test it in ptb, because many things can appear broken on paper.
An easy fix to that situation is to allow survivors to give up if they are on the ground for too long. Survivors are already allowed to give up if they are on the hook, so it isn't like there isn't precedent for it. It would be infinitely more balanced than unlimited unbreakable.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202142#Comment_3202142
You can just pickup them?
Unbreakable was strong because Killers didn't expect it and survivors could make a use to self pick up.
You cannot just pick them up in certain situations though. Survivor under a pallet? Survivor in the open with a flashlight user nearby? Boil over user in a high place? Using Plague, Oni, or Myers? All of those situations prevent you from picking up a survivor without losing a great deal of momentum.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201877#Comment_3201877
Technically its a nurse buff to boot, since she's one of the only killers who are likely to snowball a 4 hit combo (using her most busted builds) in less than 45 seconds, let alone 22.5. So if she manages to pull it off, she doesn't even need to give anyone a chance to pick themselves up or wiggle or anything. She just chain assassinates everyone like some PS2 Shinobi nonsense.
True, but nurse needs a full rework anyways. At a fundamental level she is just broken and unhealthy for the game.
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@malibu_barbie_26 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201751#Comment_3201751
Soul Guard is very situational and you would need to bring a Hex totem.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201765#Comment_3201765
Again situational perks which once pallets are used up become less and less meaningful.
Given how many pallets some maps have it will be a long while. Also after these changes it wont be so situational.
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@Aurelle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201877#Comment_3201877
45 seconds is a long time. Unbreakable (the perk) will only increase the time it takes to recover and probably half that 45 seconds. (So around 35-25 seconds) which still isn't a lot. And assuming that Unbreakable can only be used one time like it is currently, the next time a survivor gets downed would still be 45 seconds. So really, it's not that strong.
That's a very big if. They literally say that the pick yourself up time is reduced by unbreakable, and they have not said anything about unbreakable disabling itself after it is used once. Regardless of how powerful it is killers get something that is only a little cosmetic animation at the end of the game while survivors get another power increase.
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@smartemarte said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201738#Comment_3201738
have you looked at the win% for killer at the moment .... and the win% of survivors (which also takes into consideration SWF).... pretty much proves that you're just whining ?
That includes low MMR, where killers dominate. The game should be balanced around high skill, because low skill players will eventually get good at the game and rise to high MMR while the reverse doesn't really happen.
Also if we purely look at stats with no context then I suppose nurse should get a huge buff and pig a big nerf?
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@Aurelle said:
This is a very good thing. Both sides get good things. But I have a feeling that the killers will complain about it just as they complained about PTB Reassurance. Slugging has always been a cheap tactic, so it's good that there is a solution to it now. If it actually makes it into the game, that is.
Survivors get one of their strongest perks base kit, only infinite now. Killers get a little animation when they win. How are these comparable.
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@Jangles said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201716#Comment_3201716
Just press space and put them on the hook lmao.
If they are under a pallet? If someone is nearby while they are in the open with a flashlight? If they are in a high place with boil over?
As certain killers too picking someone up wastes your power, like Oni, Plague and Myers
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@kisfenkin said:
Let's be clear. This is not an US VS THEM situation. It is about balance. You should not expect to get something for your main just because some problem is fixed for the other side.
That being said, a new problem will arise from Unbreakable basekit, and that is Tenacity. Imagine a Tenacity Unbreakable build in a full darkness offering. You'll never find their bodies after you down them before they can get up.
The solution is to make Deerstalker basekit as part of this update.
Unfortunately that doesn't help against SWFs or just decent survivors who go down under a pallet or go down in the open with a flashlight user around. This change will make it so killers have no way to counter people doing this and I honestly can't think of a perk that would help this.
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@SkeletalElite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201715#Comment_3201715
You got 2 stacks of STBFL added to the base kit, causing STBFL to be even more effective by proxy (same thing as UB)
You got 1 tier of brutal strength added to the base kit, causing it to be even more effective by proxy (same thing as UB)
You got 10 seconds of time added to generators, causing all % based regression perks to regress more by proxy.
Two stacks of STBFL is next to nothing and is not even a full perk.
1 tier of brutal strength is next to nothing and is not even a full perk.
10 seconds on gens literally doesn't help now that survivors have hyperfocus because gens are actually FASTER than before.