CosmicScarab
CosmicScarab
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@Goblin_BHVR said:
Hello!!
Thanks for taking the time to write out your thoughts, even the criticism are always appreciated!
We'd be interested in hearing more about what people think - which perks would you like to see changed due to Diminishing Returns? What builds do you feel it has affected? Anything else you can think of that's relevant, please please feel free to let us know!
Thanks!
Any haste/hinder with Clown feels awful now. You have two entire categories of perks cut off from you. Really any killer that hinders or gets haste feels bad with these perks due to them being negatively affected by their basekit abilities. The same goes for haste perks interacting with basekit haste on survivor from being unhooked. There should be no interaction with basekit features or powers.
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One of the biggest problems with diminishing returns is the way in which it interacts with basekit mechanics. On the survivor side we have diminishing returns interacting with haste from getting unhooked, and on the killer side we have diminishing returns kick in on any killer with haste or hinder, effectively removing entire categories of perks. Clown for example feels incredibly bad using any haste or hinder perk because their effectiveness is cut even when you are using only one.
There is no reason why base kit things should be triggering diminishing returns. It severely limits any perk choices you can make and things end up being much more stale because of it. Even without basekit things being affected it still destroys build diversity. Overall this is probably one of the worst things that has been added to the game. -
I haven't played loads of 2v8, just a dozen or so matches, but idk if its just my luck but I've been finding about an equal number of healing vs hook state tonics, when I would expect the healing tonic to be much more common than the hook state one.
Also, the hook state tonic is FAR too strong when compared to what killers get from it. I don't think an extra hook state is healthy at all for the game at all in general. -
Honestly, I don't think killers are tracking who they've hooked very much when there are eight survivors and they have no idea where the cages are, so its very likely they aren't tunneling, just finding people who have happened to already been hooked.
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It is amazing that it has been almost 6 years and this still hasn't been addressed. When I would play killer, at least every other game I miss a down due to auto-aim dragging my aim to another survivor, someone on hook, or, more often, just into a wall. It is especially bad when you play Legion, Pig, or Myers for whatever reason too with their long lunges.
On a similar note, grabs turning into swings that just miss also desperately need to be looked at. There is nothing better than grabbing someone at a pallet or window and sitting there for a second while the game decides if you get the grab, then deciding you should swing while they are on the other side. -
It feels like DbD is one of the only competitive multiplayer games where people feel as though they should be entitled to leave and ruin the game for every other player without any sort of punishment.
In Overwatch, you used to be able to leave quickplay matches without any penalty and it meant that any time someone got countered or started losing they would just leave, leading to horrible quality matches. The moment they introduced harsh penalties for leaving, match quality significantly improved and the amount of leavers significantly dropped.
DbD needs to do something similar where real punishments are introduced for people dcing so this stuff stops. -
@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4028065#Comment_4028065
why would an event cause looking at queue times to be worthless? if not enough people wanna play survivor & too many people wanna play killer, that's just how the distribution of players is, event or no
if survivor queues are at their longest at night; and the queue times that I uploaded at night, western hemisphere time, show that the killer queue is over a minute whereas the survivor queue is 6 seconds; surely that is further indication that the player base is currently skewing more killer-favoring
For one, a decent amount of the playerbase isn't playing 1v4 because they are in 2v8. Second, survivor players who would normally not play killer and play survivor in 1v4 play killer during 2v8 because they can play with their friends. It doesn't give an accurate view of what the queue times are actually like when the only mode active is 1v4.
It has been like this since the first iteration of 2v8. Check the queue times when the event is over when they are actually relevant. -
@ratcoffee said:
On the one hand, that's a very compelling story. On the other hand,
Considering there is an event going on, looking at queue times are completely worthless. In my experience the queue times fluctuate wildly depending on the time of day when there is no event, with killer queues being longer during the day and survivor queues being longer in the evening and at night.
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- Toxicity - The toxicity you face when playing killer is kind of insane, both in game and in post game chat/people posting on your profile.
- Balance - A large chunk of the killers I enjoy playing are weak and in the lower tiers, and my favourite killer, Skull Merchant is so bad that she feels unplayable against any survivors even remotely decent at the game. With the game being balanced around high tier killers and updates like changes to the pallet density, things become even harder for those weaker killers ever patch.
- Gen speeds - If survivors just focus on gens and don't mess around doing totems/chests/hiding the gen speeds can often feel unmanageable, especially with the constant gen regression nerfs.
- Map imbalance - Maps are incredibly poorly balanced, even more so after the pallet density update. Some maps such as midwich are pretty killer sided but then you have maps like badham or asylum which are incredibly survivor sided.
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Lithe isn't even the best exhaustion perk. SB and DH are both far better.
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I usually open them. Assuming a person is on hook or downed, you have 4 mins to do what you need to do, which is plenty of time imo, and I find myself dying more often needing to open the gates than not.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020413#Comment_4020413
If a player quits the game because they think the killer role is unfun, then their voice deserves to be heard too.
Sure, but my point is that there aren't any that are uninstalling for that reason.
First off, that is completely untrue. I know quite a few people who played killer a majority of the time who have quit.
Second, there are no issues killers have listed on the uninstall survey, so if they are uninstalling then the developers would have no way of knowing what their grievances are. It cannot hurt to add those as options so the devs have that information. -
I've mostly quit playing now so I can give my reasons. I have entirely stopped playing killer, only playing survivor occasionally now, but even that is stopping slowly.
On the killer side the vast majority of killers I enjoy (SM, Knight, Sadako, Pig, Trapper, just to name a few) are not viable against any remotely competent survivor team and with the pallet changes and awful maps you are going to struggle against even the most mediocre of teams now. On top of that, the toxicity is out of control. If you dare to not sweat and try to play "fair" you are greeted with survivors t-bagging at the exit gate and insulting you in the post game chat.
On the survivor side it is just frustrating to play. Many matches feel hopeless because you can be doing amazingly but then your teammates are just doing nothing, messing around, opening chests, cleansing dull totems, ect. You could lead the killer on a decently long chase and if for a majority of that your teammates are crouching in a corner it was all for naught and you get nothing out of it. When even a single bad teammate can ruin a game, and having 3 chances at getting one, it often leads to a string of demoralizing games that makes me want to play DBD less and less each time.
In addition to all of that, subtle cheating is a surprisingly common occurrence. I never really looked out for it before, but after I escape, or have died, I've started occasionally spectating and I was honestly kind of shocked at how often people turn on speed hacks after rounding a corner and they are out of sight of the killer, just enough to make a bit of distance, but enough to make a huge difference in chase. With the game's awful report system, and reports almost never being acted upon, it makes me just want to drop the game entirely. -
It wasn't really tested.
The problem is the way BHVR does their PTB, where they put out the PTB, people give feedback, and then they ship changes based on that feedback straight to the live version of the game without further testing beforehand to see if the changes are healthy.
Other games that do PTBs like League of Legends or Teamfight Tactics usually do multiple patches on their PTB to see if the updates they are doing actually fix the issues or just make more of them and it allows people to give more feedback based on the changes they make. -
@jmwjmw27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3987922#Comment_3987922
Wraith is also an insane support killer. Trapper and Ghostface definitely deserve some love too. In 2v8 I think slowdown should come from downs and cages though, not repeatedly mending.
Wraith is ok, but he can't spread injuries like legion can after his cloak speed nerfs/bugfix, and with the amount of pallets he is far too easy to counter imo. Trapper and ghostface have good potential to be support killers but they are just really really bad right now unfortunately especially with ghostface's expose not working on most of the killers due to them being m2 focused killers.
Honestly I would love to play some trapper in 2v8 but I always feel like I'm dragging down my teammate with me when I play him. -
To be fair, they're the only killer in 2v8 at the moment who provides decent slowdown, and the only support killer who is good. With the gens going as fast as they do it isn't really surprising they are in nearly every game. They need to add more killers who provide slowdown and support killers so people who want to play those types of killers have someone else to go to.
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I've been noticing it happening a LOT, it never happens this much in 1v4. That and getting hit reged, where you hit someone, they bleed and scream but take no damage.
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Replying to add more info. My bad it is so late, I never noticed it.
The matches were back to back, there was maybe a one min break between when I queued up again + maybe another min or two of queue times. -
@ThatRyanB said:
Hey folks. I really appreciate all of your feedback on the Fog Vial in here. We're actively collecting this feedback in order to bring it back to the team, so please know, it's being read.
As you get chances to encounter this item in the wild, please don't hesitate to share your in-game experiences here. Specifics about what feels good and what doesn't (like the note about The Spirit above!) are super helpful.
How can it be trusted that any feedback will be listened to when the Franklin's changes and the worst of the Clown changes made it through, despite all the negative feedback?
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She could for sure do with some changes. It feels like she has too much counterplay at the moment, with survivors being in complete control of your teleport and her being a stealth killer but having a directional lullaby.
They could probably start by making holding tapes without doing them a real threat like in her previous version, and honestly, I feel like the directional lullaby could just go, as it feels awful having a "stealth" killer that has no stealth if the survivors have ears. -
Ranks aren't an indicator of skill and aren't used in matchmaking. or anything for that matter, besides how much BP you get on the 13th. There is a hidden MMR though that is used in matchmaking, but since it is hidden you cannot see what it is.
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@ThatRyanB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970474#Comment_3970474
Map and realm repeat prevention is still very much active in the game, so what you're describing is something I could pass along to the team to look into. Out of interest, is this something that you submitted as a bug report?
Just made a report here:
@CosmicScarab said:
SUMMARY OF THE ISSUE: Occasionally when loading into games you will be sent to the same map/realm back to back.
PLATFORM: PC
STEP BY STEP INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW THE ISSUE OCCURED: Load into multiple games, and if you are unlucky enough, get the same realm back to back.
PLAYER LOGS:
- Player logs are required from PC players only.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/CMWED9G5X3T6/deadbydaylight.log
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/JK8UVSDJYS8B/game1.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/DSQCMSAPWV49/game2.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/RCMNKS1E6ODH/backtoback.png
Both of these attached games were back to backHopefully it helps!
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I have been getting haddonfield, hawkins, asylum, and swamp constantly. I would say about half or so of my matches are on one of those 4.
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Hoping for that swamp rework soon more than anything. The elevation on it screws so many killers, and so many walls on it you can just blind through because they aren't technically solid or have a small gap in them. Not to mention just how empty the map is outside of the main structures.
Badham, Haddonfield, and Garden of Joy also really need to be looked at -
Unfortunately, some people can be really toxic in the post game chat. There isn't really anything that can be done about it besides report them, hope they are punished, and move on. If it really does get to you, you can always turn post game chat off, there is absolutely no shame in doing that.
As for why? Some people are just hateful and bigoted, some people are mad and looking for someone to attack for their loss, some people are just looking for a reaction and trying to hurt people because they think it is funny. It can be hard to do sometimes, but the best thing to do it try to let it leave your mind and not dwell on it too much.
I hope your next games go better and you find some kinder teammates! -
@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3900805#Comment_3900805
But going back to your comment:
Again, I genuinely think it more of a problem of people not seriously giving her a chance and learning.If that is true, I don't think it has to do with just haste/hinder. People aren't 'giving her a chance' because of that. If your comment is correct, and I'm kind of 50/50 on whether it is, then people have decided they hate her 'identity'. At that point the only path forward is changing her identity.
like they did with the KnightThe difference though is that Knight's power, initially, creates for an interesting and cool game. A killer that summons different guards with different powers that can pop up suddenly doesn't in anyway look boring to most survivors. The bigger problem emerged when it was realized he could just play defense the entire time. He had/has some other issues, namely that his guards become uninteresting once you know how they work, but once the 3 gen issue was solved
Skully's power has always had the feel of area denial which isn't very interesting to deal with.
really don't need another dash killer when we have so many options for those as it is.I know this is going on in other discussions, but calling her a dash killer just doesn't make sense. She still seems far closer to a trap killer than a dash killer. But even if she isn't a trap killer, she isn't a dash killer.
I do think SOME people hate her because just because she is Skull Merchant and I feel like those people will never change even after a full rework like this. Not all of them, though, obviously. A lot of people I've talked to, though, have said they hate her because of the status effect overload she has, so I just think that would be a good place to start, instead of jumping right into a full scale rework.
I suppose it depends on the person. Personally I love dealing with area denial. Trapper and SM are two of my favourite killers to go up against, but I may be an oddity there. Given that trapper doesn't seem to be very disliked and people seem to, at the very least, tolerate Singularity and Hag, I think that area denial at its core isn't a fundamental problem.
I don't see elements of a trap killer in her new kit. Sure, she places down her drones, but I just don't think placing something is what makes a trap killer a trap killer. In function I just see her more as a twins with more Victors. I think it is fair to call her a dash killer though as it appears the main way you will get damage is using your drones dash function. The new post says:
"Skull Merchant can choose to take control of Drones from a distance. During this time, she becomes Undetectable, as her controlled Drone becomes the primary threat. These Stealth Drones move slightly faster than her base movement speed and consume a new resource – Power, unique to each Drone – while being controlled.
Power is consumed slowly as the controlled Drone idles and slightly more is consumed while moving. Skull Merchant is also able to use a burst of this Power to activate Drone Propulsion. This charged power sends the Drone flying forward at high speed, relative to how long it was charged.
Hitting a Survivor with Drone Propulsion causes them to lose a health state"
That sounds pretty much like something similar to the twins with Victor, who is just a dash killer, or a projectile killer, depending on how you would classify them. She has a slight amount of setup still, sure, but again, I don't think setup makes a killer a trap killer, as if it did, then Singularity would be a trap killer. -
@DNet89 said:
A new Killer perk that is reverse Vigil. Survivors affected by New perk recover from Status Effects 20% slower. 40 seconds of exhaustion would take 50 seconds. Sloppy butcher would be 112.5 Mindbreaker would be 6.25 Deliverance would be 75.
It would either be map wide, and effect from a basic attack or Scourge hook, or when your in the killers terror radius.
Could be a pretty fun perk with some good synergies. I certainly would like it.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3900802#Comment_3900802
And there it is.
She still has to set-up her Drones. Still needs to place them around the map. Curious.
Speaking of disingenuous…. there is a HUGE difference between Knight and Sadako to SM. Pretending otherwise is outright silly. Now, Legion and SM is more comparable. It wasn't quite as bad with Legion, but it was at least in the same ballpark.
You can still play SM in a trap Killer based way after this rework, some people will even continue to do so, just like some people try to make rush-down Legion work.
I'd rather she was never included, but since she's here, she may as well be a half-decent design and not a cobbled together mess as she is now.
If you aren't going to address any of my points, I'd rather not engage further as it appears neither of us will get what we want.
I addressed your points. You still never explained how she is a trap killer though.
Sadako, Knight, and Legion were all nearly universally hated and you would get hate and constant DCs for playing them, that is a fact. Setting something up around the map does not make you a trap killer. Singularity does exactly that, and you would find very few people who would in good faith argue that he is a trap killer. Just like you would find very few people who would try and honestly say the twins are a trap killer because Viktor can be used in the same manner as SMs drones after the changes. SM is far closer to the Twins after this with her having mini Victors.
But you're right, as long as you aren't actually going to address any of that and keep being disingenuous there is no discussion to be had, so I'll just leave it there. -
@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3900675#Comment_3900675
no matter how you slice it, that's a bonafide BHVR Design L.Why?
A simple counter argument is that trap killers are incredibly hard to design in a way that creates good matches for both killers and survivors and that most players don't want the type of game you think the devs should be forcing them into.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3900757#Comment_3900757
65% and 70% are pretty dang similar in terms of result.Across a data sample as large as what BHVR has, 5% is massive.
Also, different devs have given different targets it was 60% for a while, then 60 to 65% with a goal of 62.5%, either way this would put a 70% way outside the ideal goal range.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3900747#Comment_3900747
Again, I genuinely think it more of a problem of people not seriously giving her a chance and learning.For a moment, let's presume you're absolutely correct,
This is a far more significant problem than her being unbalanced. That's the players (consumers) saying they hate the product. It doesn't matter how much the developer likes the product or objectively thinks it is okay, if the players aren't going to engage with it, then it must be changed. What possible method would you suggest BHVR implement that could get people to reconsider their views?
Focus on the issues people have a problem with, which generally seems to be the haste/hinder, and shift her power budget elsewhere like they did with the Knight. There is no need to fundamentally change the killer from a trap/stealth/info killer into a dashing killer.
I'm not even against a rework, I just want her to keep her identity as a trap/stealth/info killer. It is what makes her fun and unique, and we really don't need another dash killer when we have so many options for those as it is. -
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3900795#Comment_3900795
Perhaps they did try, and she was OP. Perhaps she was not. We do not know and we can only make judgments off of what BHVR has given us.
So we should ignore the only time in this game's history where almost everyone has universally hated a Killer? You really think we should ignore that???? Surely not.
Legion was originally a single-target rush-down Killer, much like Myers. Yes, he had the option to go for multiple targets, but going for a single target was his strongest play. With his rework, that was completely removed. To go along with that, he received massive number nerfs to his entire power. He waited YEARS for another rework which brought him out of D-tier and into C-tier.
SM is still a trap-based Killer, so far as I can tell. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean you need to be disingenuous
You are calling me disingenuous while saying she is a trap killer? In what possible way is she a trap killer after these changes? If she is a trap killer then so are the Twins. She sets up a drone that gives a notification if people go near it, very similar to Victor, then switches to that drone and chases the survivor, charges up to dash into them, damages them. Exactly like the Twins, so unless you want to start calling the Twins a trap killer I would suggest that you stop being disingenuous yourself.
And the only time a killer was nearly universally hated? Knight, Sadako, Legion. All of them got changes without gutting the killer's core identity. You can try and say that Legion is different now, but his CORE IDENTITY as a fast chase killer who stabs is still there. You can even still go after a single target, and some people still play him in that way, using his power to get a hit, catching up, ending power, and hitting again.
You can try and get a killer deleted from the game because you don't like them, but again, it sets a terrible precedent for the game. -
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3900747#Comment_3900747
They said that those games made up something like 2% of her overall KR. Either way, when you have a community that refuses to play against a Killer in any circumstance, that's a HUGE issue.
No, they definitely gutted Legion. He got dumpstered for YEARS and had his entire original playstyle removed from the game.
It was necessary to allow the character to just be annoying and not hated. I wish they would have actually fully reworked them, but they chose not to and damned Legion to being mid for all eternity.
The 2% was exclusively from people who killed themselves on first hook, but like I said, I noticed a LOT more people getting rescued then just afking, far more than those that just managed to kill themselves on first hook. That is just my experience though, so it is really impossible to know where her kill rates would be at if people actually tried.
And I don't think it is healthy for the survivors to have the power to just force a rework on a killer just by killing themselves on hook. It sets a horrible precedent, where if you don't like a killer you should just ######### so they are more likely to be changed. I dislike huntress, so should I kill myself on hook so maybe she gets reworked into a different killer? It's far more unhealthy for the game to have things like this happen than have a killer some people don't want to learn to play against.
Legions identity of being a chase killer who runs fast and stabs people is still there though, with this change SM loses the trap/info/stealth gameplay she had and becomes a dash killer. It is a FAR more drastic change and departure than Legion had, who only had a comparatively minor gameplay change while keeping the core identity there. -
@Rigbeta said:
Someone pointed out in their own post that these changes are not for the Skull Merchant Players. They are for the survivors who will never accept or adapt to her current style. I think that rings true.
Given that the survey didn't ask any questions from a SM player perspective and only asked if you would enjoy the changes as a survivor, it is absolutely true.
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@deckyr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3900745#Comment_3900745
that version is long dead. she's actually been the new version for longer than she was that version. why are we still talking about chess merchant?
Some people can't look past that version and project that version onto the current/2.0 SM. I get it was awful to play against, but, like you said, it has been gone for so long now and it plays nothing like her current/2.0 iteration.
I still see people to this day complain about SM only being used to hold 3 gens, when she is honestly pretty bad at it now. -
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3900737#Comment_3900737
I mean, she had a 70% Kill Rate. That's overpowered by the definition.
Making a Killer that is near universally reviled is generally considered a failure of design. I am really not sure what else you'd call it.
Considering a lot of people I played with and against just gave up against her, whether that was going afk or killing themselves on hook, I think it is hard to accurately look at her kill rate. I know BHVR said first hook deaths were fairly low, but most people got rescued and would go afk, so I am not too sure how accurate her kill rates can be. Again, I genuinely think it more of a problem of people not seriously giving her a chance and learning.
Also, when Legion was released they were also universally reviled, yet they managed to change Legion without absolutely gutting their identity, and the same can be said for Knight. I think the same can be done with SM, people just need to give her a shot and actually play against her. -
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3900732#Comment_3900732
The community at large found SM 2.0 unpleasant to go against and wildly overpowered.
Was she objectively? Not for me to say.
Not sure you want to bring subjectivity into a debate about SM's rework, as most of the community seemingly would rather she was gone entirely.
I heavily disagree on the overpowered part. She was strong, but nowhere near the likes of Wesker, Nurse, Spirit, Blight, ect.
But personally I don't think she was a failure of a design. I think her first iteration just tainted peoples viewpoints too much for them to truly give her a chance. You can still work on what people find frustrating about her design without having to completely throw her out and make her another dash killer, especially when we have been getting so many of them as it is.
And if I'm honest, at this point (assuming this rework goes through) she is fundamentally a different killer, so if she was removed and I was given a refund it wouldn't be any different than what is happening now. -
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3900675#Comment_3900675
OR
You accept that the design was a failure on multiple levels.
It is not a design conducive to supporting a viable Killer.
It is not a design conducive to promoting fun and engaging Survivor gameplay.
It is not a design conducive to encouraging meaningful interactions between Killers and Survivors.
It sucks that BHVR didn't make a decent trap Killer, but them admitting they messed up and being willing to go back to the drawing board is a good thing. Changing her so that she can be more viable and not be cheeks to go against is 100% undeniably a good thing.
SM 2.0 was viable. And what is fun and engaging is subjective. Personally, I like going up against trap killers, SM included, while I dislike going up against Huntress, who seems to be a very popular killer to face. I cannot claim my view is the only one that matters and demand Huntress change from a ranged killer to a trap based one just because I don't find it as engaging.
I think most people didn't give SM 2.0 a fair chance after her rework, and if they did and learned the counterplay and maybe even played her a bit to get a better grasp on what she can do, they may have found her more enjoyable to go up against than they expected. -
@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3900694#Comment_3900694
- Again I gave an example, hard proof that youre wrong about low tier survivors and killers being balanced around them so keep up whatever narrative you have. So much so that I went to the extreme end and provided screens with no gen regress, and not even tIII perks. Against people that have prestige 50+, these aren't bottom of the barrel survivors.
Maybe you struggle on pig/sadako and think this is why, who knows. But fact of the matter is, no killer in this game is balanced around low tier or "bottom of the barrel" survivors. Its hard to take anything you post seriously.
P100s dont exist in low tier survivors. Getting to 20k points in a game, hell even 15k points in a game, dont exist in low tier survivors.
Rage bait here seems to be coming from the other direction. - So you just assume changes happen? Even when they arent listed?
Rage bait here seems to be coming from the other direction pt II.
Again I can make the same assumption you are attempting to do, by saying:
"oh yeah and expose is probably coming back to the drones"
Theres nothing in the notes saying you are losing undetectable on releasing a drone. 0. Nada.
Take what you know. Read the notes. Not assume random changes that aren't even listed.
Yeah, there is no point in discussing anything with you. You are either trolling or are not actually reading what is written by anyone in this thread.
Assuming you aren't trolling, here is some advice. Try listening to other people, reading what they write, and being more civil. It may help you understand what people are actually saying and help you have an actual discussion, instead of you just getting angry at everyone for disagreeing with you. - Again I gave an example, hard proof that youre wrong about low tier survivors and killers being balanced around them so keep up whatever narrative you have. So much so that I went to the extreme end and provided screens with no gen regress, and not even tIII perks. Against people that have prestige 50+, these aren't bottom of the barrel survivors.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3900670#Comment_3900670
- Yea I mean there is no single killer in this game, balanced around the lowest tier or "bottom of the barrel" survivor.
I refuted what you said with possibly the most unnecessary example above, p100s arent present in "bottom of the barell". So you need to change the definition of low tier or bottom of the barrel, because the opponents I have in this screenshots aint it.
I get the cope about p100 not meaning everything but bottom of the barrell and low tier survivors dont even have p10s, much less p100s.
Again you are just digging this hole deeper than it needs to go. Pig is not balanced around those survivors, and she is on the weaker end of things for sure. But you are dead wrong in this case.
2. Its not in the notes, I could easily say something just as silly as she is going to get expose back to drones. Stick with what you know please.
The amount of undetectable with what we know, is going to make this aura read a non issue.https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3900668#Comment_3900668
No thats not my opinion.
Thats my opinion on one of the changes and interactions of aura read happening, not her entire kit.
I have to restate this as there are two people in here which are confused by this. To the point they are making up changes that arent even listed to happen.
Id like work on her for sure, and any change, especially the ones listed, are better than what she currently is. The drones should be bidirectional for a start and not this one scan line BS they have going. (Which its getting back read the notes)
Shes still a trap killer based on the notes. So I don't know what the whole thing about dash killers you have going on at the bottom is. You still have drones, they still have scan and reveal, you still have all that system.
(Which it still has read the notes)https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/NCRV5SM399VU/image.png
She is still a trap killer.
Read. The. Notes. Please- A small handful of games proves nothing, just because a killer is balanced around lower MMR/lower skilled survivors does not mean it is literally impossible to win at a higher level. I have a hard time believing you aren't just ragebaiting at this point since you seem to be incapable of listening, understanding anyone's points, or being civil.
2. "The amount of undetectable with what we know, is going to make this aura a non issue."
The only undetectable we know of for sure is her getting it when she is piloting her drone. You are making assumptions in that she gets free undetectable on demand when NOTHING of the sort is mention in the notes. Take your own advice and
Read. The. Notes. Please
- Yea I mean there is no single killer in this game, balanced around the lowest tier or "bottom of the barrel" survivor.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3900658#Comment_3900658
Your gonna give the devs new ideas about nerfing Singularity now...
Oh no D:
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3900658#Comment_3900658
- This just buries the hatchet here you are dead wrong about bottom of the barrel survivors and balance:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/CRD58XHHIAKG/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/0JYXVO0P7JBT/image.png
Lets keep to things that are based in fact not whatever you are coming up with about killers and their balance. As well as keep this thread about SM.
Again you are wrong about killers and their balance. Just want to drive that one home here. I didnt even have tIII perks on the P100 group up there by the way.
2. You cant say something is going to be unbalanced based on nothing. You are literally assuming the sky is falling without a shred of evidence (like the assumption on low tier survivors you made above, which was proven wrong as well)
Please, lets play it out. Actually see what happens in game, take what we KNOW not what we assume. And things will move forward in this game.- Again, I am literally just responding to what YOU said. And if you HONESTLY believe that NO killers are balanced around lower skill level survivors then I don't know what to tell you besides I heavily disagree. Some killers are balanced around higher skill levels and some around lower, and I think that is quite obvious, but you are entitled to your opinion. I could also go take 3 screenshots of 3 lost games and it would have just as much weight as your screenshots.
2. You are making just as many assumptions about the changes as anyone else in this thread. Let people discuss things without this attitude that no one is allowed have an opinion until the changes are in the game already. I am fairly confident that BHVR put out these early ideas so that people could discuss them and give feedback.
- This just buries the hatchet here you are dead wrong about bottom of the barrel survivors and balance:
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3900627#Comment_3900627
- Pig and Sadako are not balanced around low skill survivors. Again, go make a new account, play perkless on a trapper and youll stomp. Lets focus this thread on SM these talking points are going nowhere and I think you have a wildly different metric for "low skill survivors" than anyone I am aware of.
- This was one of her problems to begin with. Disabling them did not really benefit anyone, as she can replace multiple drones even with a designated person doing it, faster than you can disable them. As well as, overlapping 3 drones sometimes in areas, making it still a 3 gen holder after the expose changes.
There is no notes saying undetectable is going for placing a trap. So you cant just sit there and doomsay about changes that arent even said to happen. She has undetectable for 8 seconds placing a drone, as well as from the notes taking OVER a drone.
Again needs some play, stick to SM though in this thread. Talking about other things can be for a separate thread.
- Yeah, if you smurf you will stomp, like I said though, bottom of the barrel survivors don't get placed with skilled killers. And it is undeniable that Pig and Sadako are balanced around low skill survivors. Sadako's entire second rework was because she pub stomped. And Pig, despite being one of the weakest killers has gotten constant nerfs because she gets high kill rates at low MMR. It certainly isn't because she is so oppressive against people who know what they are doing.
2. Given that they haven't made mention of getting undetectable with your drones, yet they did mention getting it from controlling your drones, I think it is fairly safe to assume they have gotten rid of it, just like they have with haste, hindered, and presumably deep wound.
Hacking her drone means she can't use it, and given that drone passively will do basically nothing, not allowing her to use them is a reward enough. Does Singularity need to be revealed or be in some way impacted when his bipods are disabled? No of course not, disabling them is the reward, and it should be the same for SM.
- Pig and Sadako are not balanced around low skill survivors. Again, go make a new account, play perkless on a trapper and youll stomp. Lets focus this thread on SM these talking points are going nowhere and I think you have a wildly different metric for "low skill survivors" than anyone I am aware of.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3900572#Comment_3900572
The "bottom barrel of survivors" get dominated by any killer regardless of what it is. The "bottom barrel of survivors" get dominated by perkless trappers.
Lets keep this thread though about Skull Merchant rather than whatever you are attempting here that goes for you and @xGodSendDeath
No killer should be balanced around what an SWF is capable of. Otherwise we would have a game full of nurses.
Aura read is fine in SMS case as she constantly has undetectable, and can time it if she sees her drone hacked. They havent even specified how long the Aura read is for, which I am guessing isnt 8 seconds (the duration of placing a drone).
Much like I have already said, changes will need play to figure out what needs fine tuning.
And per the notes, shes ALSO getting undetectable from taking over a drone. So this whole aura read worry seems to be more on the SM allowing it to happen rather than it being an issue at all. You essentially have only small possibilities of this occurence even happening in a match.First off, don't assume my intentions. I was merely responding to what YOU said, which no killers are balanced around low skill survivors, which they are. Pig for example has been nerfed numerous times for being a pubstomper, and Sadako was reworked due to being a pub stomper.
Second, the reward for disabling her drones should be just that, disabling them. There is not really a reason that she needs to have her aura read as well, as having her power disabled is enough of a punishment. We also don't even know if she is going to have her undetectable from placing her drones, as they only mention undetectable being gained from operating the drones. -
@ChuckingWong said:
bottom of the barrel survivor players that can't be hard pressed to even think for 5 seconds while killers in this game are designed to be clunky and feel awful to use, especially on console.
If any of this were true soloQ wouldnt be in the state it is currently in. No killer is balanced towards the bottom barrel of survivor.
Skull merchant changes can only be better than what she is at the moment. People just need to give it a try and see how it plays out rather than doomsay.Sadako (and Chucky to some extent) would beg to differ
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Pretty disappointed with the changes mentioned, as I feel like it is moving so far away from her identity as a trap/stealth kind of killer that it might as well be a new character.
I get that dash/projectile killers are more popular, but we have so many of them at this point and trap killers are a rarity, and SM is the only one who adds stealth into the mix.
SM2.0 was probably the killer I enjoyed the most and was by far my most played killer, so I hope that as the ideas are refined some aspects of area denial, trapping, and stealth will be brought back. -
@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3900467#Comment_3900467
The entire reason they are reworking the killer is because survivors didn't like playing against her. Of course the primary concern behind the rework is survivor first.
It would still be nice if they at least cared a little bit about how people who currently enjoy the killer feel.
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There was also nothing really on the survey about how things would feel from a killer perspective, which is disappointing. I would hope they take into account how current SM mains feel, but it seems like they are entirely focused on the survivor experience.
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I just tried out wraith and yeah, there is a huge delay on being able to attack after cloaking. I really hope this is a bug because it feels absolutely awful.
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@Jacknalls_Paw said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3839435#Comment_3839435
The game doesn't punish anyone, it's a small balance feature. By your logic survivors are punished for doing generators…and also a dead survivor counts as 3 cage states so you can tunnel all you want.
Three cage states and a dead survivor is a lot less repair speed overall than three cage states and no survivors dead. That is why this is a bad system, it encourages you to tunnel one person.
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@turksmall236 said:
BHVR needs to add more server locations
Yeah, for real. I am in Canada and the closest servers I can connect to are in Virginia, which gives me a 60-80 ping depending on how the game is feeling that day.
For some reason the game also seems VERY loose with what servers it puts you on, since I quite often get put on the South American servers and it people from South America are put on the NA servers and it makes the game awful to play. -
If you're playing in the event mode it is likely people using the exploit with smoke bombs that permanently removes survivor scratch marks.