CorgiSploots
CorgiSploots
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@NeverSolus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4094091#Comment_4094091
My brother in the mist, this isn't a bipartisan issue - why are you trying to villainize killers as the primary individuals not prioritizing the other sides fun? I've seen bullysquad after bullysquad in this event, and more and more recent to the casual game mode it's become an increasing phenomenon. Are those people prioritizing killer fun? Is it prioritizing killer fun when you bring a four flash sabo squad sporting boil-over and flip-flop?
I'm not saying survivors are the bad guys, to be clear : They aren't. They are responding to Killers. Killers are responding to them. This is a two way street. Both sides are being equally awful. Summarizing it with a high-horse opinion of 'it's all the killers faults' when you can just as easily find groups of survs going into a game with the express intent to make a killer miserable rather than win, as you can find a killer going in to tunnel/slug, is disingenuous.
Both sides are being cruel, and I don't understand where you think you have positioned yourself as to speak to 'I'm tired of the us vs them nonsense' while espousing that exact view. Take a breath, my man. I think you're a little lost in the emotional turbulence of whatever is going on in your recent games.No I'm not emotional, I'm just legit tired when survivors greatest BM is tbagging or trash talk. Meanwhile killers were so disgusting people refuse to play Orela because they don't want to be tunneled out for her being a trans women. There was a hunt sables event, the bubba incident when he first dropped. Tell me what has survivors done that is remotely on these levels? Because Lara crashing out at you in egc isn't anywhere near tunneling out players for picking certain characters or having certain traits.
I'm just not drinking the poor killers kool aid anymore and found that more often than not survivors are willing to try and improve whereas Killers have everything from hook respawns to no anti camp at end game and it's still not enough. This is the only pvp game I've ever played in which actions that would catch a BM suspension anywhere else are treated like gospel and the other side just needs to git gud but not too good otherwise we'll make another second chance perk require a blood sacrifice. -
@Kekz0r85 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4094091#Comment_4094091
What then make a killer play fair for you?
- Spreading all hooks evenly among survivors?
- Ignoring a survivor because he has already a hookstate when there are others that don't?
- Picking up instantly even when others are around for a beamer/pallet save?
- Always going for the unhooker?
- Not punish survivor mistakes in general?
- etc
Why would and should the killer do this? Survivors don't stop doing gens just because the killer has only 2 hooks. They don't stay injured to make the killer down them more easlily.
They use their perks,the map or whatever they can to their advantage. But let me guess: That is needed because all killers are unfair,toxic scumbags that deserve every bit of your resentment, right? :)Im iri killer since before killer buffs that allow killers to have free reign. Ya'll are so up your butts about evil survivors meanwhile see a clearly new player something we as a game desperately needs and tunnel them out at 5 gens ensuring they never come back. I'm tired of the us vs them nonsense and put in my work on learning survivor. And Half ya'll are so reliant on your perks basic game sense is out the window. It's ridiculous how little any of you look around or do basic patrol. Or will chase for 2 minutes then whine about gen rush when abandoning chase is the clear answer. I can't even count how often killers will not even kick a gen that's more than halfway. Most of you have clear areas of needing certain perks but refuse because it's not the 'meta' build for whatever your killer is so lose because you need gen regression or pallet help.
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@GlamourousLeviathan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4094076#Comment_4094076
I am the one thinking that you're playing a different game. Killer is in the worst state it has ever been. The perks have all been nerfed to garbage level, while survivor perks only got stronger with time (except OTR). There is literally no killer perk that was ever meta that wasn't nerfed (if you disregard Nowhere to Hide), while survivors have perks like Lithe and WoO, who have stupidly high usage rates and were never toched (not that I think that Lithe needs nerfs, but if the devs applied the same logic of impact in the game they applied when nerfing Sloppy and Mangled effects Lithe would be gone), and on top of that they get new perks that instantly become meta when they release, such as STB, Finesse, Made for This (which broke the game for months before it was fixed), and the new WOT, while killers just got their first remotely decent perk since Knight with Henry (and Turn Back the Clock isn't even that great when comparing to the old Pop, Ruin, Thanatophobia, Eruption and many others.
The game mechanics have also changed to pretty much always favour the survivor, with base BT that guarantees an escape in the end game, gen kicking limit, and anti-camping, while killers didn't get any substantial buffs since Dredge came, making generators take about 10 seconds longer. Survivor has never been easier, and you pretty much don't need to put any effort into actually trying to win. Last year, I even binged every survivor adept in a single weekend, only playing solo queue, with a win rate of about 80%. That's because survivor gameplay is basically, do gens and pray that your teammates do it as well.
Also funny how you say "integrity", like every time I tunnel a survivor, a panda dies or something lmao. The game literally encourages you to tunnel into its base structure. Why? Because 4 survivors make gens go faster than 3. It is pure math. If you don't like it, go ask the devs to make a system where 4 survivors do generators slower, and 3 survivors do them quicker. Screaming at a killer because they tunnel is exactly like screaming at a survivor because they are splitting gens instead of 3 people focusing on one at the start of the game, it is just mathematical efficiency.
Now I know you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about and thus ending this conversation because I dislike people purposely being obtuse to sate their argument.
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@GlamourousLeviathan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4094073#Comment_4094073
But if I am a player who likes to play to win every game? Which mode should I play on? There is none. A multiplayer PVP game is naturally gonna have players that want to win, and players who just want to chill, and that is why most games have a ranked and a normal mode, and you can't just ban players because they give their best at a game, so all you have to do is accept that people are gonna play different ways. Also, chill players shouldn't even care about players tryharding because if they don't care about winning, why would they care if the other side just stomped them? When I use a meme build or play a bad killer, I accept that I'm most likely gonna lose the moment I click to join a lobby, and I think that is logical.
And also, as I said, killers tryhard more because they are the weaker role of the two, so even if they get chill survivors (not the type that is goofing, but the type that is lowkey trying to win), they have to play much more focused because if they are in the same "vibe" as the survivors he will just lose, simply because survivor gameplay requires much less skill overall.
I despise this argument because it's such a strawman and playing obtuse for the sake of playing obtuse. There's a massive visible difference between playing to win and abusing aspects of the game to ensure you're the only one having any fun at the expense of everyone else in the lobby. We already have anti camp abandon bots base kit BT, and these werent added in for the sake of it. They were added as a result of killer players refusing to play fair in any regards. It was so bad before basekit BT you might as well write off the match if hooked because killer would instantly tunnel.
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@GlamourousLeviathan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4094054#Comment_4094054
I never really get this argument that "killers have to stop tryharding". If the game had a ranked and normal gamemode, and people were just tryharding every game on normal mode, I would get it, but that is not the case, it only has one game mode, so people who want to play to win will just play the regular mode because well… There is no other option.
Also, survivors seem to tryhard less because it takes significantly less effort to play optimally as a survivor, but ultimately, survivors don't care about the killer's fun, and neither should the killers. It is a PVP game, not a coop experience with friends.
You are kidding me, killer has never been easier outside maybe 1% of swfs and the stats already showed they win 1% more than solo queue. Survivor is not easy I dunno where ya'll get this nonsense when they have to know every killer power/add on/perk whereas We killer only have to know perks and have numerous that negate survivor items such as lightborn. We only have to worry about teammate in 2v8 wheras one survivor is enough to snowball 3 at 5 gens. And dont get me started on how utterly useless bots are.
And I'm tired of this "people have no where else to try hard." As if we got a comp mode where rules apply and 90% of killers wouldn't sit in casual making it still as bad because they don't actually care about integrity. I want to know I'm doing good because I'm doing good, not because I'm abusing an aspect of the game that clearly is unhealthy and likely going to be heavily punished if this event is any indication -
@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4094054#Comment_4094054
I'm gonna join you on the sidelines. Giving killers literally one thing to do is unusual, and i can only assume survivor sales and player counts must be really bad to get to this point. I can't see any other reason for it.
I knew it was bound to happen you can't spend year after year telling average ppl they must be gods or just be unallowed to play so the power role can get 100x streaks. I don't expect to win every match on killer but I'm averaging pretty fine if I'm not instantly nice and just let everyone farm cause what else you gonna do for THE bp event
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I'm going to be the outliner and say this was going to happen, The fact they went this hard for survivors should really say something about how bad survivor play levels were for the last few events outside 2v8. I've said it 1000 times, but killers cannot treat every lobby like their families lives depend on it. We need players on both sides.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089803#Comment_4089803
You're not being shouted down, people just disagree with your opinion. When practically every new killer in the last 2 years has been designed around instantly traversing the map and then chasing with anti-loop powers, survivors need resources to stand a chance. If you can't see the insane powercreep in terms of having every possible aspect of killer powers (basekit slowdown, anti-loop, mobility, information) rolled into every new character, and connect that with map design issues caused by it, idk what to tell you.
They literally had to add play while you wait to 1v4 mode and killer queues are still 10 minutes. Maybe survivor doesn't feel great right now for a big enough portion of the playerbase to significantly effect queue times. And this wasn't just from the Jason release. Survivor queue has been instant almost all day and night for months now.
If you don't want your opponents to be able to express skill in chase, then what is the point of playing a PvP game?
Exactly my thoughts, we are forcing survivors into this need to be at a master level of everything we shouldn't be pretending Otz and friends skill level is the norm rather than the extreme minority. And then hit them for daring to get better, like I swear our balance boils down to "Well these plat players are mad they got thrashed by GM players so we made the GM players have to jump threw fire hoops and will force them to wear flippers while doing it when they learn to do it better." And then tell those struggling because survivor skill ceiling is taller than a skyscraper "git gud but actually don't because we'll nerf you for daring to."
Long gone are the days of old DH/infinites/syringe and so forth survivors aren't some boogeyman in the dark they're putting in as much legwork as killer and most times their perks require added actions. I can have corrupt and know they spawn opposite me so I just go there. Corrupt existing is it's value I dont have to do anything. And that's fine, I think killer should have a edge but more often than not I feel like I'm being babysat especially on newer killers. Jason isn't Ghoul by any means but any weaknesses I should have are just not there and I already know survivors are crouching away from gens so the game is naturally slowed down and that's without applying any slowdown yet. -
@GorgonExe said:
Crouch. Crouch is the counter. No killer instinct, no screaming, no revealing yourself in red, no footsteps, nothing.
That's all you have to do. He can't do anything in omni presence.
This is the problem Jason is pretty much our Sombra. For anyone who doesn't play overwatch Sombra is the invisible hack character, and has always been on the weaker B side. But is so unbelievably boring and obnoxious to go against that she's still one of the most banned characters in game and is on her way to her 4th rework. Jason shares near all the same elements of requiring way more effort to play against as opposed to playing.
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@Blueberry said:
It's not Jason being tuned too high, it's the other ranged killers being tuned too low. They could all use improvements to varying degrees, Springtrap included.
I disagree if every match is gonna be a 20 minute slog because the killer gets infinite information from the get go. We're gonna lose players even faster than we are. Jason needs to be slowed down immensely. We're day 3 into his release and it's still non stop. No one is playing anyone else we should be slowing down if he truly was mid tier.
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@indieeden7 said:
He's in a weird spot where his offense is very strong to the point that playing against it doesn't feel very good a lot of the time, but at the same time, hardcore stealth from survivors pretty much makes playing him one of the most miserable killer experiences ever. I'm happy to have Jason in the game finally, but his power seems to be creating some pretty miserable experiences for both sides.
He's Sombra for DBD he has way too much happening while not actually being like Ghoul levels of strong making everyone around him miserable. Sombra is nearly always perma banned because of how miserable she makes playing yet is one of the weaker dps. Jason may need a full rework before the year's out because he's just bloat with no downside
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@Cornil said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089147#Comment_4089147
The fact anyone downvoted you is kinda crazy, I don't think I could've put my experience into words better.
Only thing I'd add is that I do genuinely find his concept fun, I wouldn't mind the crouch walking around if the rest of his kit didn't make him nearly impossible to shake, like the incredibly short 12 second cooldown or the fact that your only option is to crouch walk, you can't even walk normally. Also he can teleport to every kind of unique map spawn except for lockers. Walls, windows, pallets, potential pallet spawns, broken pallets, downed pallets. They achieved "omnipresent" quite literally for this killer. Only issue is, as you mentioned, he has the highest potential ranged ability in the game. As he sits now he's incredibly overtuned. The only reason I don't find him unplayable to face is that they didn't give him an outright free hit like they did for The Ghoul.
Some easy tweaks that I think could make him fairer is allowing walking to not show footprints, make his teleport have a longer cooldown (something like 15-20 seconds would be better), and making his "jumpscare" not work on players in lockers. In fact, I think lowering the distance of the jumpscare to something like 12 meters and allowing crouched survivors to get revealed would make him a lot more interesting as a anti-hiding killer. I find it SO annoying and counterproductive that his only counter is to play like the old noob distortion users who just crouch walked around the map and let their whole team die on first hook. I can't blame my teammates for letting me die on hook because 50% of the time Jason goes into omnipresent he's just sitting in it for 20-30 seconds nearby waiting for the save so he can interrupt the heal. He's incredible at face camping right now, because instead of blocking all teleports around the hook for a period during and after a survivor being hooked there (like the Dredge) he's allowed to teleport but with a slightly longer exit animation, right next to the hook pretty much.
There's definitely a lot they need to work on to make him balanced with the rest of the S-tier killers, because I'm seeing nothing but the same exact hex build and the same two addons from every Jason I play against. Which means his basekit is too strong, no one thinks he needs synergy perks to buff any given aspect of his kit, so they're just bringing hexes.
He just has no skill ceiling and is just a amalgamation of other killers so he's far easier to grasp early and I feel he needs tweaking so it's not 20 minute matches every time because everyone is forced to crotch walk every where because he has all the information at once and yea no one's runing anything but hexes because he's overtuned base kit wise. It's not a good thing
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@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089110#Comment_4089110
So did everyone else escape?
Just 1 it was on the horrible small Eyrie map so he was gonna get a decent kill count regardless which is why I did. That map is horribly designed
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@Xendritch said:
I'm gonna be so for real if tbagging actually gets in a killers head they have the mental fortitude of a wet paper plate. Any experienced killer is just gonna eye roll and move on so I find claims of tbagging being a "strategy" extremely dubious.
I tested it just now bagged a Jason missing spear and I might as well taken a dump on his grandpappy's grave he hard tunneled me humping me for 4 full minute bleed out nodding along like he'd won something.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089057#Comment_4089057
I rarely spend money on the game. Henry was the first killer I've bought in a long time, and I recycle my cells to buy the Rift. I won't buy individual skins either. This company gets my time, it's not getting my money too.
I'd really like to see something original pick up steam. Like Outlast Trails, yeah, which I haven't gotten but have been meaning to. Carnival Hunt looks pretty cool too. The Saw game doesn't interest me. I just don't get the obsession with IPs. My favorite aspects of dbd are it's original ones, and these limited IP games keep proving they don't have enough to keep people interested. Dbd is so big and overstuffed with years worth of maps and characters I just don't know how anyone can catch up.
Saw is the only IP I think can have a chance, it has infinite amount of devices at it's disposal so there's endless amount of puzzles to be had thus whatever killers they have will not be held to some gimmick. Hunt has the issue of very immature devs who ragged on one of their biggest streamers and lost steam since
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
I love playing against him, I really don't like how much buffs/debuffs he has baked into for teleporting… feels overkill:
-Haste
-Exhaustion with addon
-Reload
-Scream
-Movement Tracking
-Killer Instinct
-Gen damage
-Pallet Break/wall break/Window block/Pallet deny
-Scream suppression immunity
-can track "footsteps" in locker
kind of feels like how Skully used to where she applied every debuff while gaining haste for little effort.
Otherwise chase against him feels fun when he isn't the Malboro using bad breath.He's def gonna be a contender for 3 gen hold outs and it's not good like no one liked it with her once oo shiny wears off he's gonna be hated for it too.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089063#Comment_4089063
Yet these people exist, and as such, trying to optimize your gameplay to leverage that makes sense too.
There's no leverage? That's why survivors tend to only do when safely at gate because doing so in chase takes time away from the loop. It's just BM there's no strat
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Given Grim Pantry broke and projectiles could phase through shack, I'm of the opinion the devs have no idea what will break what, so even small updates is a bag of hopeful fixes to code.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089054#Comment_4089054
Your results may vary, as "taunts" aren't an actual game mechanic in DBD, doesn't mean that it can't work though.
I know as Killer Tbagging just gets a shrug from me, or tunneling out the survivor I think they're trying to protect since it likely means they're an easier target whom will be followed by a "protector" who isn't spending more time on gens.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089055#Comment_4089055
If it gets the reaction of "being a turd" out of you, its working to some degree.
….How in what I said remotely correlates to 'it's working' It's a nothing burger that if anyone's effected by it needs to put the game down for a bit.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089032#Comment_4089032
Slugging is intended in certain situations. I've done it against sabo teams plenty, and I've taken full team downs when they're easily handed to me. But I've never gone into a match intending to never hook anyone. I don't think that part was ever intended to the extent of what were seeing now, which is the reason so many people succeed with it. They're exploiting a system they know is hard to fix, with a tactic that's neatly impossible to counter.
As for depravity, If I'm being honest I think they like there to be toxicity and division and downright hatred in this community. That sort of conflict fuels engagement. It's much like political rivalry. The "tunnel Sables day" thing really spotlighted how gross this community is. A lot of people who play killer are obsessed with winning. You can't really be that way on survivor, since your designed to lose more than you win. But killer can attract a very different sort that, if they try enough, can win basically every match. Even very average killers can win more than they lose. Not so much for survivors. You pretty much have to be comp level for that.
I actually hope this problem keeps up so people keep complaining. It's nice to finally see the chorus rising, and complaints are all that gets anything done in this community.
I agree, like I said short of killers stuck in stealth era. Like plague has to on some level because her mechanic is so baked into a hide don't let her catch you sick bygone era. I honestly won't even support BHVR beyond Konami because that's how the company judges how much love a property gets. And Scooby when it drops because I'm hoping for a proper Scooby game not run of the mill slop. I agree I think the devs enjoy the us vs them because why not? We have no competition there's no reason to correct course. I'm really hopeful? The saw game will be a decent contender to force them to address issues. Outlast Trials is picking up speed too, and it's just so lore based which I know dbd community has been craving.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089006#Comment_4089006
It can help if it agitates the killer to focus on a single survivor who's a good looper. Ergo: it's a strategy.
That's more telling of a killer's mental faculties then it is as a strat. Tbagging has been around since Halo it's not some new age thing, it's just being a turd.
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@Reinami said:
Slugging isn't toxic. Sometimes you have to slug. Sometimes the survivor goes down right at a pallet and you need to check for a save. Sometimes the other survivors are about to finish a gen and you need to stop it. Sometimes a survivor is already on the hook, so you slug that survivor to go for the rescuer and create tons of pressure.
If you are genuinely that bad at killer to create pressure without slugging then you need to do customs with hard bots until you can. Short of the killers that still rely on old stealth era, perks alone cover 98% of any weakness one might have on killer. And I don't want to hear about swfs. Stats showed they win at 1% above solo queue they are a boogeyman of killer creation. We should not be 4king every match either a game where one side always wins and whose only saving grace is all competition shoots itself in the foot isn't magically good.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089008#Comment_4089008
There is no comparsion to slugging. Survivors can't incapacitate a killer.
This exactly, it's why I avoid it on killer because there's nothing in survivors that make it where I can't play. The only thing that remotely came close was Made for This and that only effected slower killers anyone with speed was fine. I'm honestly tired of the 'strat' argument and that devs said yadda yadda. They said a thing back in 2018 before they realized how utterly depraved a good portion of the killer base will be. And now are realizing why games like LoL etc have player safeguards to prevent someone being unable to play/team destroyed. Does it always work? No of course not but is far better then pretending all is well we're just one big happy family please ignore the hard tunneling of certain players because checks notes they might be playing a trans woman/dare to like Sable among other things.
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@Linkdouken said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/4FH5VGQODM15/11955.png
Seems dumb to me but whatever
It is dumb, and chances are they'll backpedal if enough backlash occurs. Jason is as bloated as the water he drowned in and it's only because he's a license and BHVR are throwing as much as they can in every new release instead of actually helping the game.
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He's a bad design imo Jack of all trades master of nothing. He's bloated from top to bottom. Insane map presence like Henry. Block on all escape routes when he spawns in so just better single gary. Forces survivors to scream when he spawns so free infectious fright. Better weapon than Huntress with hitbox so large he might as well be throwing logs and can grab hooks. We're leaving killers that could of used these elements to help them in the new chase era further in the dumps for a license that can go at a drop of a hat. Like just because he's not Ghoul take 2 doesn't mean his design isn't horrible for the overall health of the game. I dread how bloated Art is gonna be.
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Knight and Singularity I call them the ipad kid killers there so little skill expression and they are such snoozefests to play I cannot understand how anyone gets joy out of the game playing itself for you. The only saving grace is they're for the most part rare.
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I think it's that we've needed to slow our roll on licenses for a long while because killers in general are just becoming memes. BHVR is on fumes regarding unique killer powers because we've pretty much exhausted horror related mechanics. I fully expect a killer to come in and it's just Rein from overwatch at this point.
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@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4084671#Comment_4084671
I think over time the game has definitely restricted playstyles on both sides that have resulted in the current pace today. Killers feel like they don’t have a chance to breathe half the time because of the speed of gens, and in the same way survivor feels like the match can become hopeless so early on because of the snowball and no catch up mechanics.
I don’t blame one role or the other for the current mindset of today’s games, rather the direction of the way the balance has pushed it. Frankly, over time it’s the players who have shaped the game into what it is today, optimizing the fun out of it. I’d still love for things to slow down a bit or at least a casual option that has restrictions to ensure it stays causal would be very beneficial.
My issue with that line of thinking is I can still run meme hex builds on killer with relative ease and still get a 4k. It's virtually impossible outside 2v8 even SWFs struggle with a meme build. 2v8 is saved by default as it's the game mechanics boiled down to basics allowing both sides some freedom which is why it's always ontop when it's out. Killers control the flow of the game and when they repeatedly treat those in the lobby like punching bags they forced the current meta. I firmly believe removing certain safeguards like no protection if picking up under pallet would help in the long run. Killers want to tunnel camp and slug then they have to deal with survivors able to punish said behaviors.
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@Lexilogo said:
Flashlight specific Killer Power interactions (shortening this to "lightburn" as a catch all term) were not problematic.
I will immediately concede that most of the interactions were badly implemented. Flashlights were too integral to Hag's counterplay and dealing with Lightburn as a Nurse/Wraith was mostly just frustrating. However it's weird to see BHVR take such a firm stance against Survivor items having unique Killer interactions like this, when:
- They still allow Killers to do the reverse, eg. Lightborn hard countering flashlights, Plague hard countering medkits
- They never removed the "lightburn" mechanic from Nemesis' zombies, and they serve as the proof this kind of mechanic can be done correctly in a way that isn't intrusive on either side and is just a nice, niche interaction
- Flashlights are (or at least, were supposed to be) the Survivor tool that helps them in chases, but Killers play so differently that some of them probably do need specific flashlight interactions to keep the tool relevant against them. Eg. I'd honestly like it if using a large amount of flashlight durability could destroy Pyramid Head's torment trails
- We have so many Killers now that, as long as the fundamental experience for both sides remains fun and balanced, I think having very specific Power counterplay interactions, even for the sake of "because it's thematic and fun" can and should remain in the game.
- I apply this same logic to how Adrenaline woke Survivors up vs Freddy, I think that was cool! It wasn't cool that it was extra gravy to an already very strong Perk and felt awful for Freddy players, but I don't see the problem with what are essentially easter eggs being in the game like this, as long as they feel like small extra features and not like the core of counterplay and/or something that is ruining one side's experience
lightburn gone is what catapulted Wraith into the hated killer catagory he's in rn. Before you had to have a good control on the character now there's just no punishment for holding W and almost all his replacement players play him in the most toxic possible way.
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@hermitkermit said:
Hmm… not sure these are actually hot takes, but this is the internet, so I’m sure someone somewhere will be deeply offended lol.
1. More cosmetic expression!I know a lot of people hate the sillier cosmetics because they think it kills the horror vibe, but honestly, the art team almost always knocks it out of the park. It’s fun being able to dress your character how you want. Besides, there are already plenty of things in DBD that aren’t exactly horrorrealistic. We have neon scratch marks, glowing auras, and people getting impaled on hooks without dying of blood loss
2. Encourage positive player interactions.I’d love to see some kind of system that rewards good sportsmanship. Let players gift BP, items, charms, or make the thumbs up system actually mean something. Maybe enough positive ratings could earn cosmetics, BP bundles, or other rewards. Positivity should be encouraged, especially in a comunity that’s as passionate and famously divided as DBD
3. The community has wildly unrealistic expectations of what a casual player should know.
This is probably my hottest take so it’s really long sorry.DBD is a game that takes thousands of hours to become even competent at, and every new chapter adds even more knowledge to learn. We’re at a point where it’s almost unreasonable to expect a genuinely casual player to keep up.
There are over 40 killers, 300+ of perks, 22 status effects, 60+ maps, over 1,000 add-ons, and specific counterplay knowledge attached to all of it. Every map, every status effect, every killer, every add-on, every item has its own specific knowledge and counterplay about what it is, when/where to do it, and what you’re supposed to do depending on a hundred different variables.
That’s probably over 100 pages of reading material just to understand the basics of what’s in the game, and that’s before you’ve actually played a single match. Reading about something and doing it successfully are two completely different things.
If we want to attract and keep casual players, not have such hardcore sweaty matches that aren’t just 4stack SWAT teams and 5 gen tunneling giga Blights we need to be honest about how much knowledge DBD actually demands. At some point it stops being “most people suck at DBD” and starts being “you can’t be casual and expect not to suck at DBD” and expecting causal players not to “suck” is unreasonable.
I don’t know how anyone can look at this game and think, “It’s not that hard dude. You only need to learn 400+ things and do them all well” there is no beginner mode, there is no practice arena, there is no slow dip in the pool. Everyone is thrown in the deep end at the same time and it’s getting deeper with every new chapter and yet some still scoff at how people are struggling to breach the surface.
TLDR; The game really needs to be more accessible for casual players, and a bit more forgiving, and a lot more informative. How that should be done is a separate discussion/issue, but this communities definition of casual is not casual in the slightest.
This kinda mirrors my thoughts on gen rush, I don't understand how killers can actually whine about it when they forced it into play with "Not responsible for your fun." You cannot sweat your balls off every single match then be shocked the other side does the same or refuses to even entertain different playstyles. Even Steagul was nerfed for no other reason than he annoyed killers. Nothing on actual gameplay nada just that his screams were annoying. I don't think touching gen speeds will do anything because they aren't the problem. The problem is survivors legit cannot play in any otherway outside 2v8 because it runs the near 80% chance of snowballing everyone. The game for sure should be slowed down but you cannot pin that on the side literally not allowed to play any other way. Survivors allowed to breathe a bit and experiment slows the game down naturally because one is a gen jockey and 2 are doing cheeky headon/boon builds and the last is running mettle of man.
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@littlehoot said:
Oh boy here we go.
- Everything about the Myers rework was garbage. All of it. Literally took him from equal first on fave killers to play against as survivor to only slightly more enjoyable than Plague and Legion.
- A solid 70% of add on's for both sides are completely useless.
- The devs have a provable bias towards the enjoyment of killer players that is only made worse by the majority of their content creator community.
- I loathe the Animatronic as a killer and I wish the chapter had never happened. The map is the only passably good thing that happened as a result.
- The Casting of Frank Stone was a phenomenal game.
- Removing challenges from Tomes was bad actually.
- Survivor on the whole is harder than killer on the whole. There are killers with incredibly high skill ceilings and I respect people who are really good at them a lot. But survivor comes with a need to understand your own perks, map layout, most killer perks, all killer powers and how to counter them. This bank of knowledge needed to be good at survivor increases every time we get a new killer. Sure, survivors get new perks, but each individual survivor does not come with a unique ability you have to use specific tactics to counter on top of that.
- The DC penalty system is garbage and should be removed completely.
- Removing the ability to take your chances was a horrendous change to the game that has only worsened it.
- I actually genuinely don't mind if Blight doesn't get nerfed—and I say this as someone who played him one (1) time in 2v8, felt like I was having a stroke and vowed to never touch the killer again.
- Ghoul's free hits are annoying but he's honestly never been half as terrible to go against as most people claim.
- Killer mains who justify hard tunnelling, slugging and camping will ALWAYS find a new thing to justify doing so. It doesn't matter what survivors do, what perks they have, what items they bring, what balancing changes are made. Kill rates could be at 95% and those people would still claim the only way to win was hard tunnelling, slugging and camping.
- If a survivor is slugged more than twice in the same match, they should get a free unbreakable. Especially if the majority of the team is also slugged.
- I should be allowed to kick Chucky like a football one (1) time per match.
Agree on tunnel camp like just got out of a match with a killer who hard tunneled with a bot and the only other human survivor had 120 ping. We desperately need a conversation about what kind of person is attracted to this sort of playstyle that in any other game would result in punishments. Hell League will even penalize you for spawn camping the same person over and over, in that the weak link actively becomes worthless to kill in terms of gold output so there is a safety net of sorts in place. When BHVR reneged on the anti mechanics it became so SO much worse and I don't think Jason is gonna do anything in terms of player potential as long as killers are allowed to treat 4 people in lobbies like emotional punching bags.
A great example of this is I despise doing things like hatch/blind/sabo challenges because I know no matter what I do/bring killer is gonna see it as an affront to them and then I'm stuck babysitting some person with the mentality of a 12 year old kid for 15 or so minutes. Doesn't matter if I don't tbag don't do anything but my challenges. I dared do something other then take hit and be hooked.
Disagree on Ghoul he was nurse blight level of value with absolutely no skill ceiling when he dropped. The auto hit was atrocious and made a lot of people look better at killer than they were. He was my easiest adept I'm sure my dog waltzing across my keyboard could of gotten equal value out of him for how much effort he needed. I've not touched him since because I just hate the idea of getting free value for existing. Least with Spirit I can feel like I myself am doing the work not "opp I sneezed free hit." -
Myers now, good god what an absolute failure of a 'rework' Sure he was weaker but a good Micheal made you panic and have an absolute blast. Now it's just a massive groan and hope the Myers game fails soon so he returns and hopefully gets changed to ANYTHING else.
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Thought of a couple more
The bots are atrocious and the devs ignore this. This thing that's suppose to assist survivors mostly hinders them to the point they're so poorly implemented half the time they can't even remove killer powers. Survivors had a better chance when someone dc'd and nothing remained. This has been an issue SINCE they were implemented, I should not be on doctor and watch Nea bot for some reason unable to snap out and constantly screw over the remaining players because she keeps running to them for help on something only player character can do.
Hits and grabs etc have desperately needed updates for ages. I shouldn't be able to get hits past a certain point the hitboxes need massive overhauls -
Mine are Killers are the reason we are plateauing hard and always lose the amount of new players we get. You cannot expect new players when we have horrible mechanics that give them less gametime than playing some connect 4 mobile game level. The longer devs sit on it, the longer we will never increases outside 2v8 which feels horrible to ppl who like 1v4. Killer buffs need to change in a way that isn't forcing pallet density overhauls which feels awful outside speed killers. For the love of god STOP WITH DASHSLOP.
Survivor should be harder but not the skyscrapper ceiling it is currently, killer shouldn't be in the dirt skill expression wise as it is now. The longer BHVR sits on these the more money we'll be wasting on being kinda horror fortnite and bring in new who will increase player count for a short time then go right back to same amount that just gets chipped away at the more people realize what a horrible state the game is.
We're 10 years old we should not have the insane amount of bugs we do. and we desperately need a new game to counter the cheater epidemic but BHVR likely cannot in anyway replicate the code properly and fears the downtime for a transition.
And my final one, DBD is so far in the dumpster it's not even gonna take a Marvel Rivals level of competition. Something as simple as Outlast Trials getting another prime asset on the level of Lilya viral/Identity V putting out an actual good fully made for pc port could really bleed our players hard. -
I was fully tunneled out by a killer in 2v8 had to wait the full game for my duo to play again. Got that killer in our next survivor game as survivor and was hard tunneled out. I'd remarked about karma to my duo and in egc they were raging about it. I find it to be a very for thee not for me sorta logic on part of killer players
@UnicornMedal said:
Toxic as a term is applied way too liberally to menial things. With DBD, the only real toxic thing you can do is continue to expose yourself to stressful situations when you don't have to engage at all.
In terms of the gameplay, BHVR has made it so simple and effective to ruin everyone's experience with relative ease. So anything on that front should be pruned from the game, but I still blame the people that allow that to be possible over the people that take advantage of what's in front of them.
Agree there are too many things that are just "you don't get to play" elements which we really dont need
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4080328#Comment_4080328
Tbf the 2v8 feels more survior sided. If survs are good, can run a chase and actually do and split gens properly then you usually wind up getting 6 out at least.
Ehh tbh I think it's fine as it is. Short of my teammate afking I've rarely if ever had 2 escapes let alone 8. But I also notice a lot of killers not looking around/ not kicking the gen
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4080242#Comment_4080242
"Completely agree, it's wild how much aura read there is and no indicator survivor side so they can react."
As the aura reading meta was really taking off and before it was nerfed, I ran Distortion not to be hidden or play like a rat, but because I used it to quickly suss out which aura reading perks the killer was running. Once you know, you can adjust how you play the rest of the match.
I mean you figure it out with no help (and I just assume Lethal in every match), but if you have a Blight/Ghoul/etc. running multiple aura perks, the game is gonna be over at that point.I just miss the old days when killers used game knowledge, meta gameplay, sound, and environmental clues to find survs.
lethal itself is extremely problematic now that survivors always start across the map. Like why wasn't it changed to address this when we know from the getgo where they'll be. and like you said on a fast killer it's almost always over before the game can really start. I mostly play 2v8 now as both roles and forgot I had bbq on spirit and barely used it be because it really is just that easy to know priority gens
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TBH at this point in time I doubt BHVR understands about 80% of the code and interaction bugs both sides have. Since patch survivor items have been bugged in hand often upside down. So far it hasn't effected anything but I'm sure if left be, we're going to see some unintended issues.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
Personally I'd love to see a year with no chapters and a focus on fine tuning, balancing and stabilising the game. Unfortunately I think a lot of the player base would expect new content and drift away after a few months of no new stuff. Plus financially I'd imagine bhvr probably relies on the regular income from chapter releases
The problem is BHVR is terrified of this for good reason. At our core we are just not a good game, we had something but they've snuffed the fun out of everything but the most efficient top builds. That's the reason 2v8 does so well. It's a free for all away from the horrible 1v4 formula. And the devs have recognized certain killers are just really bad for the mode and for once wisely took charge. Even without legion getting a 8k is easy as long as you patrol well and matches fly by as they should.
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@MrBuffalo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4080241#Comment_4080241
I do love that you bring up that stat because everyone likes to either ignore it or say its not true stats.
We finally have proof that SWF are not winning as much as people like to say
It's honestly wild cause you can even tell in the most highly edited streamer games they spliced like 3 good games out of 30. Swfs on average aren't going "He's at grid 12 kicking gen, rotating to grid 3 now." They're just that survive with friends, once I played enough survivor and had iri on all I was really struck by how utterly miserable it is. Even worse if you're a streamer who wants to be casual. Friend hides their name now and said it was night and day to when they have ttv on. We desperately need to hide names fully survivor side from killer to allow the matches to play out.
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@MegaGorilla said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4080252#Comment_4080252
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4080214#Comment_4080214
"Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game." - Soren Johnson
https://www.designer-notes.com/game-developer-column-17-water-finds-a-crack/
Exactly what I always think, and the worse is we being a game that doesn't even have a comp scene. There's literally no reason for how heavy handed they swing everything.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4080285#Comment_4080285
Idk I keep the meta to a minimum with killer too. Some killers I run aura builds, some undetectable, some anti-sabo. People not figuring them out in time because they expect pain res DMS every match helps me quite a bit.
TBH I feel like any build is fine on killer as long as you know it. Even on pallet city the game I do alright with my spirit hex build survivor is disgustingly bad though I dont even think trio swfs are in an okay space unless you are comp level 4 man and it's just not good for the game.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4079805#Comment_4079805
Yeah, after living through the old DH/DS/IW/MoM era, the worst the surv side throws at you seems tame. OG DH stands alone atop the pantheon of busted BS perks.
From the surv side, it's Lethal + whatever other aura perks (there are like a million to choose from now). It's not that I play stealth or anything, it's that killers don't have to work/think to find/track you anymore. Especially if they're high mobility killers like Blight, just having a near constant location feed takes a lot of the fun/skill out of it.Completely agree, it's wild how much aura read there is and no indicator survivor side so they can react. Like even OW has Widow announce she's wallhacking so people can react accordingly.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4080214#Comment_4080214
You just name one side and blame other but theres nothing constrictive and using these questionnaires as valid reason is lame because they werent held up by any data from devs tgey were just balant info for devs and they were mostly aiming for survivors and their issue than killers which makes it one sided again.
Both sides push meta and getting better at it thats just it and your idea that its this one side because its the bad one from your standarts doesnt mean anything than hust your opinion that I dont see as valid reason .
…you mean the official stats that showed sfws win at 1% higher than solo making them an entire non issue boogeyman? And I speak as a killer player lmao what hurt my opinion?
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4080168#Comment_4080168
Both sides are guilty the same its not killer or just survivor its just depends which will sweat first and have super high chance they will stomp the other thats it.
Survivors do gens very effectivenor killers start tunnel at start but either way both do this it only depends which you get. Nowdays survivors are more better with looping and have more help from things like shared hud or can see now loadouts of others which makes them play better more experience combined with information which makes them more effective.
I cant nowdays blame anyone kinda its either sweat and win or chill and get stomped into the ground and this circle repeats on and on.
Disagree, it's such an issue killer side that one of the main listed reasons on uninstall is "excessive tunneling and camping." And nothing in what you said addresses the core issues I brought up. Survivors HAVE to know exact rotations or snowball they aren't allowed fun builds they've been optimized out of existence. The devs even nerfed steagull for no reason other than 'annoyance' not because of gameplay whatsoever. I can still run a full hex build which isn't optimal on my killers and 3k-4k with minimal lose. But if I try a boon build on survivor I have 4 dead perks and a wasted time on my teammates. The only solution would be a change in queue where it's you want one side but it's not guaranteed We should of never had mains.
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@nicoblue said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4075126#Comment_4075126
I see the mods have time to remove posts that agree with you, not sure what is up with that, but that's a usual tactic for corporate avoidance.
Not sure why they're unable to face this issue head on, other than thoughts that make me think they want to keep it enabled for other corporate reasons.
My theory is BHVR official stats is similar to twitch views and a good amount are cheaters/bots and a sweeping ban wave would infact decimate the illusion on how many active real players we have. killer normal queue even outside 2v8 can go upwards to 10 minutes yet I rarely if ever have a full computer lobby most are you can tell console players. It's another reason I firmly believe the rumor we're gonna go f2p soon.
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@CountOfTheFog said:
No plans in their FAQ from when it returned:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/418-faq-stranger-things-returns
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/AQ0ENPBQRE7B/1000040963.jpg
BHVR's priorities will never cease to amaze me for how ahh backwards they are. Adepts are one of the few ways you can show off your dedication to a certain character especially killers as more often than not they enter in nowadays with perks clearly designed to assist a different killer rather than compliment what they came on.
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@MrMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4080168#Comment_4080168
I blame matchmaking and pregame lobbies not doing a good enough job to create balanced matches. Also the MMR system being based on individual escapes instead of team escapes, and a terrible matchmaker that is way too broad in favor of speed, yet comfortable tossing people into lobbies where both the MMR balance AND wait time gets destroyed by constant dodging instead of spending a bit more time gathering 5 players that are a good match, then sending them straight into the game instead of going through lobby in the first place. Completely fixable problems but I doubt anything will actually be done to improve it. Didn't BHVR promise MMR changes as part of their QoL changes? Whatever happened to that?
I just can't agree the matchmaker has never in it's existence ever been grand. But it's only within this last few years that we've gotten to this point. And in killer subs/killer heavy forums, It's an endless scream fest of Survivors must be MIT level engineer good at the game and it's not killer's responsibility if they don't have fun. End result is this, we have survivors who won't even take a chance on fun because killers have made it perfectly clear even if the game folds in on itself because of their actions they are gonna continue to do so. We now only have a playerbase when 2v8 is up because it's the only time survivors can breathe and devs will ensure it's not a complete stomp or 40 minute long heal simulator.
We are the only game I've ever played Asym or not where one role is allowed to dictate this hard while never actually improving themselves. And that's the main issue most killer players have NEVER touched survivor, never learned what gen is priority. Never learned proper rotation on walls. Will run builds only because some streamer says best for that killer without knowing what their personal weaknesses are. Meanwhile survivors have to know perfect timing on every single interaction with killer. Factor in ping difference since BHVR will never apparently remove bluetooth hits. Know exact rotation on walls, have to have the top build etc etc. Killer skill ceiling is in the toilet and Survivor is a skyscrapper and it's not good balance whatsoever. I don't even agree nurse is hard. She's literally just blink management like Tracer, and the easiest to abuse the auto lock aim killers have to get hits she shouldn't. She was my first adept and I wasn't apart of the community at the time and truly felt she was easier than every other killer because I could ignore the main function of killer so easily on her. -
TBH I blame fellow killer mains for not allowing any breather matches and forcing comp mindset. You aren't allowed to be casual outside 2v8 as survivor players and it shows in our player stats even twitch viewership drops by half. I can't blame survivors for rushing gens when if they even tried a silly build chances are they are the weak link and snowball the match. BHVR furthered this with their changes and forcing anti/gen rush to be the only viable means for survivor side. Like we can't keep demanding one side to be pin prick perfection then be pikachu surprised that's the only way they ever play. I prefer 2v8 as a spirit player because I know a good portion aren't gonna comp in anticipation I'mma tunnel off hook.
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RN for Both sides it's Friends to the End If I use on killer half the time I have to regard as a dead perk because BHVR is so overly reliant on RNG without understanding how to code it. It will just go back on the first person I hooked and I don't tunnel. Survivor I'm immediately tunneled out because it cycles back to me. I readily admit it by itself is already one of the most bloated killer perks we have for how much value it has. But good god please for the love of god BHVR force it to properly go through the survivors instead of just screwing one person over.