ChiSoxFan11
ChiSoxFan11
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As a killer, I've literally had survivors DC on first down -- not even waiting to get hooked. And not as a "sweaty" killer, either -- but in games where I've been playing as a Wraith or Clown, lol (the best example was when someone switched characters to one with a key at the last second and used a hatch offering, then DC'ed immediately when I yanked them off of my Ruin totem as Ghostface less than a minute into the match -- and they had Spine Chill, to boot, so they knew I was coming!). When that happens, it puts me in an awkward situation -- I almost feel the need to give someone the hatch/door, and I almost feel guilty playing a 3 vs. 1. Someone's myopic "I'm all that matters" approach ruins those games for not just me, but their other 3 teammates.
Conversely, as a survivor, nothing is more frustrating when I'm playing with my friend (or as a solo) and someone DC's the same way, for "reasons" (one classic example was when we had someone in our lobby who was streaming and quit as soon as they realized they were facing a Spirit). Nothing like being doomed out of the gate in a game because someone doesn't like the killer, got found first, was hooked quickly, etc.
I can't say that I have NEVER DC'ed -- as an example, once I and my friend did so against a Spirit that had slugged all four people and was letting everyone bleed out and not hooking anyone (she kept patrolling the slugs, slashing her weapon, so this wasn't normal slugging -- we both DC'ed right before we bled out). It would take something extreme like that to hit the "leave match" button. But some people DC too regularly for the slightest of reasons because they only care about how the match is affecting THEM, not how their actions might affect others. That's why it's looked down on -- if DC'ing only affected your game, then no one would care. The four other people who are affected, however, will.
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1: I didn't really see an effect on my end when I played killer rounds. I don't tend to see BL kick in, so I honestly don't know if I missed it or not, but I can't obviously speak to others, since that might just be due to my playstyle.
As a survivor, I found in the limited number of games I played, there was a map offering almost every time (Autohaven, Haddonfield, Ormond -- I saw similar map offerings as killer too), and several killers I played against were ones with high mobility in general (Blight, who I honestly don't see often) or whose basic powers make BL irrelevant (I saw multiple Doctors in a row). Might have been just a coincidence.
2: While I don't think removing it is game-breaking, the game still has enough map issues, those should be addressed first. There's actually SO many game issues that need to be looked at/fixed first, it's almost astounding that THIS is what's being discussed. Not saying that the devs aren't doing other things behind the scenes, but this feels like someone taking their garbage to the road while their house is on fire and burning down around them. Priorities don't seem to be in line with what they should be.
3: To parrot what someone else suggested, I'd get rid of BL 2/3 and keep a basic BL mechanic, with a slightly longer time to activate.
4: It was good -- hopefully, everyone else's was as well. :)
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I've been hit by BW only a couple of times, ever. It's such a rarely run perk, it just never is a factor. I HAVE seen teammates get caught by it, usually because they were teabagging in the exit gates when someone was being hooked for their death hook, and I had long since left (because, why stay at that point other than to be a poor sport winner?).
The couple of times I have died to it, as other people have said, I've laughed that someone actually got it to work and moved on to the next match. There are plenty of Perks to be salty about at times -- this isn't one of them.
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@Gay Myers (Luzi) said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1763797#Comment_1763797
I'm afraid I have no direct answer to this - they made the decision to share this ahead of time, but this is feedback I'll be noting down definitely.
Thank you for the quick response and for passing that on.
IMO, the best test subjects are the ones who don't know they're being tested, lol.
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@Gay Myers (Luzi) said:
The intention of it being on the live build is to get more data than on the PTB.
- Only a small friction of people play the PTB which would result in a small pool of data being collected.
- Matchmaking has also been disabled on the PTB.
- A PTB is usually done to test multiple things, so this could have potentially caused other things to not be as tested as much.
The data being collected specifically is intended for Bloodlust and that's the main intention - having it on a PTB with other factors would cause that it's not a live enviornment test, which is a important part of testing. Hence why things like MMR and Hit Validation were enabled on the live build and not PTB.
A legitimate question here: Why even announce the disabling of it ahead of time?
MMR data gathering was being done "behind the scenes" well before it was announced as such, so it's not like such a test would be unprecedented. And Bloodlust is a mechanism that, frankly, if it had been removed for a weekend, or even longer -- let's say a week or two -- most, if not all players, wouldn't have even noticed it not being present (I likely wouldn't have). The few who might have -- well, you would have had a couple of forum posts titled "Is Bloodlust bugged?", followed by most people assuming it WAS a bug, like the countless other bugs we run into on a regular basis in the game anyway. People would have continued to play "normally" and you could have had a greater amount of data to look at with no compromising of what was being studied.
Instead, the announcement of the removal has already tainted the results -- you'll see people playing "differently" knowing it's not in play. It may not be a lot of variation, but that variation WILL be present, where it wouldn't have been if this test had been done without announcing it. That variation might be killers dropping chases they wouldn't have before, people playing different killers than they would normally play, some people not playing killer at all, survivors utilizing specific loops more often than they wouldn't have otherwise, survivors burning specific map offerings, etc. -- ALL of those potential actions that could taint the data would have been avoided if this test had been done behind the scenes and not publically, which -- my opinion only, obviously -- means that this is a lost opportunity for data that would have been more accurate than what you'll actually be getting over the weekend.
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@Hyd said:
They should have just disabled Bloodlust and not said anything about it. Call it a bug Sunday morning and have it "fixed" by monday after they've collected their data. Announcing it is just going to result in a dramatic change in the player base and play styles where they probably won't be able to determine all that much accurately.
This.
The smart thing to have done would have been to disable BL completely, as you said -- except they could have done it for even longer, maybe an entire week. Bloodlust is one of those mechanisms that, when I play killer, I couldn't tell you how many times I actually have had it come into play. I honestly wouldn't have noticed if it had vanished for a day, a week, or longer, and I suspect most players wouldn't have noticed either.
Much like their MMR debacle, they could have tracked whatever numbers they're using behind the scenes and come to conclusions afterwards knowing that, largely, said experiment would have been untainted by any outside factors (some people refusing to play killer, certain killers avoided altogether, potential map offerings, abuse of certain tiles, etc.). Instead, by announcing it ahead of time, to some extent the "data" has already been compromised in some fashion -- how that affects the end result, we'll have to see.
FWIW, I played a half dozen killer rounds this morning with The Pig, who in theory, might be a killer that would benefit from BL. I had a couple of 4k's (one on Haddonfield that was a complete slaughter), a 3K, and 2-3 matches that were either 0-1 K's. I'm a Rank 5, and by and large, I played against ranks at my level of better (Red), at least a few of those matches against SWF teams of some number (I'm pretty sure none was against a 4-man).
I only had one instance where I felt like BL would have helped me -- in the 3K on a Badham map, a Rank 3 Jake who was REALLY good at looping kept trying to get my attention for me to loop him at the shack. I'm still relatively new to the game (started in March), and my skills at chases still need work. It took only a loop or two around the shack to know that I wasn't catching the Jake easily, so I abandoned the chase entirely and went after weaker members of the team. I did down the Jake later in the match, after two of the other survivors were already dead and most of the pallet defenses were gone. Consciously knowing that BL was disabled definitely played a part in me leaving chases with him, though it probably left his teammates feeling like they were being targeted unfairly. Would I have kept the chases with Jake going if I DIDN'T know BL had been disabled? Possibly, or I might have still abandoned the better player to pressure gens/survivors in other places. But knowing that is definitely HAD been disabled definitely made my decision an easier one to make. That's a perfect example of why annoucing the move instead of doing it covertly WILL influence the data, and it potentially makes this experiment compromised already.
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I'm a sucker for the snoot boop. I present this round, as Exhibit A, lol. 🤣
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ugL_CkrhWw&feature=youtu.be&ab_channel=GeriatricGamingETA: Me actively hoping the Jane gets her hat off at 4:45 or so, lol. The goodbye to the survivors had me laughing so hard at the end of the match, I didn't care about the depip or points. Full on snoot booping at 7:40. 🤣
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When I play survivor, I love when the killer is running Franklin's. My friend and I never bring in items (unless it's for a Rift challenge), so it's essentially a wasted perk slot, even if we lose something we pull out of a chest along the way.
As killer, I've run it maybe 3-4 times ever, even since the rework (in every case, it was against a lobby I suspected of potential shenanigans, like four flashlights or toolboxes -- I had a fun match against a sabo squad that didn't enjoy the perk, but then again, I didn't appreciate the four hook offerings they brought to go with their sabo builds either, lol).
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Reading for some people is apparently hard, lol.
My favorite example has been playing against a killer (and not someone trying for Adept Pig, or even running Pig) who's running Make Your Choice -- then watch them essentially proxy-camp their hooks the whole game, keeping their perk from ever activating. Or getting tunneled from the beginning while being the Obsession, then finding out afterwards that the killer was running STBFL (and again, on a killer not even playing Myers, so it's an case of getting the perk as a teachable to run on a different killer). Times like that are half infuriating/half hilarious (more the latter, since those killers usually end up not doing well, but the former, where I want to message the person and ask them "Do you even know what you're running?").
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As killer, I've already decided to give hatch and found it first, then headed to a door to say "goodbye', lol. Occasionally, I've downed a final survivor right as they're about ready to get the door open and downed them, just to let them wiggle off for an escape since I thought they'd earned it.
Almost always, the survivor understands that, if I wanted the 4K, I could have gotten it, and they take the escape. On a very rare case, I've had someone run away and die to the EGC, which I feel bad for.
As a survivor, almost every experience I've had where the killer brought me to hatch or door, they've let me out. Only a very rare occasion that I've had someone deny it at that point.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1716537#Comment_1716537
And if you had a stacked offering giving 100% bonus points to survivors only, killers would basically always DC on those.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1716570#Comment_1716570
Yes, the Bound Envelopes offer a 25% bonus, so when stacked they provide at most a 100% bonus average per survivor. If all four survivors burn escape cakes, that's 100% per survivor. The devs are not going to create an offering that lets survivors get more than average of 100% bonus per survivor and leave the killer out. An offering like that would only increase the feelings of hostility between sides.
You're asking the devs to incorporate something that players would use to punish other players of the same game for choosing the opposing side. Devs are not going to punish players of their game just because they play killer.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1716602#Comment_1716602
Oh god, BPS and Gateaus are such bad luck. I never burn those anymore, not as survivor and not as killer. I always have the worst games when I use them. Hell, someone else burning them is usually a bad sign, too. Sometimes as killer I try to farm when survivors burn them, but I've even had matches where I tried to be friendly just go horribly (someone DC'd and the three remaining survivors avoided me all match and keyed out as soon as possible, #########?!) so it's rarely worth the effort.
The number of BPS I've trashed when prestiging characters would make some players cry.
It sounds like we have similar luck then, lol.
When my friend and I are playing together and either use a BPS or see one in a lobby, we pretty much assume "indoor map + tunnel/camp with an optional Mori". Then when we load into Lery's (our least favorite map), all we can do honestly is laugh because we know what's coming. 🤣
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1716537#Comment_1716537
Okay, well if you want to play that game, what about all the times killers, me included, have wasted global BP offerings on sweaty survivors? Like the two year 4 cakes I burned last night only to get bulldozed by full parties with the same perks? As someone who plays both sides, I can tell you right now that that is the more common scenario than a killer leaving you to bleed out on the floor.
That's been my day. Match after match of teabagging, flashlight and locker spamming, people immediately giving up on hook, multiple keys, multiple OOO players, sweaty play, and various levels of BM'ing. I used Ghastly Gauteau cakes in every match, and in almost every one, I regretted it, even after I still made a good amount of BP overall.
I run into the same frustration when I play survivor and throw cakes/BPS into the game and run into a super-sweaty killer -- so that's definitely a thing -- but as you correctly pointed out, it's not something exclusive to one side or another. Events seem to bring out the worst in players, sadlly, for whatever reason.
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Hate to break it to you, but it's a universal thing -- as in, both sides. I played killer all day, threw out Ghastly Gauteau cakes every round, and I got in return teabagging, flashlight and locker spamming, people immediately giving up on hook, multiple keys, multiple OOO players, sweaty play, and various levels of BM'ing. The highlight was a 4-man SWF with two Twitch streamers (3 Rank 1's and a Rank 3 -- I'm Rank 8) popping 3 generators almost immediately, the 4th right as I was downing someone, then triple body-blocking me to keep me from getting even a single hook (I threw in the towel at that point).
I have lots of Gauteau cakes and BPS's on my survivors, and I normally would be playing SWF with my friend tonight -- he's lost electricity due to the hurricane that just went through the South so we won't be playing, but as I told him on the phone, I think we'd be looking at the same "fun" as I saw all day as killer. I'm taking my cakes and streamers and sitting on them. The way today went, I'm not in the mood to be giving anyone any BP from either side.
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@tippy2k2 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1716091#Comment_1716091
...if it makes you feel better, I kind of love that idea.
I suppose everyone is jaded and bitter though so they don't expect their opponent to ever use that offering (and I suppose a bit unbalanced as the killer can offer one where you could get 4 from survivors).
I also like that idea (as a seasonal thing) -- but as you said, people can get very jaded playing this game.
I've been playing most of the day, killer rounds (I would have normally be streaming survivor play tonight, but my SWF buddy -- we play as a 2-person -- has no electricity due to the hurricane that struck last night). I've been bringing Ghastly Gauteau cakes I'd saved up in every match for the BP event, figuring everyone could rack up some good BP and have some fun in the process.
Instead, I've been rewarded with teabagging, flashlight and locker spamming, people immediately giving up on hook, multiple keys, multiple OOO players, sweaty play, and various levels of BM'ing, along with the usual in terrible matchmaking. I played a round as Wraith with 5 cakes in the lobby, only to watch 3 gens pop in no time flat, had the 4th pop when I finally got a down, and then got triple-body blocked on the way to the hook. That was against a full 4-man SWF, with two streamers (I looked afterwards, which is how I knew) -- 3 Rank 1's and a Rank 3 (I'm currently a Rank 8). I was so overmatched, I felt like a high school football team playing an NFL team, with the bodyblocking at that point to deny me even a single hook (the team was full of BT's and DS's and the last gen, I believe, was 99'ed already, so even if I were a toxic, camping killer -- which I'm not -- I still wouldn't have been able to do anything about it) the equivalent of throwing the football up 50 points in the 4th quarter.
Maybe one match all day did I actually enjoy the game and felt happy that I'd brought the cakes in for the survivors. Even with a number of games that I got a 3K or a 4K (and most with good BP for me), the games weren't fun at all. All in all, I felt like I'd wasted my cakes on people who didn't deserve the extra BP.
I'm glad I'm not playing survivor tonight, as I'm guessing that I'd probably just run into the same thing but in reverse -- bringing in cakes with my friend doing the same, only to watch killer after killer camp/runnel/Mori us all out of existence in one match after another, so this isn't a one side vs. the other thing. Maybe it just feels like events bring out the worst in a lot of players. I just know, after today's shenanigans, I already don't want to play the rest of the weekend.
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I got nothing using Pig, Doctor, Wraith, or Ghostface. Offerings, maps, perks -- nothing seemed to have any affect on what I was getting credit for. Finally played with the Clown, and the Devious points actually started counting correctly for the challenge, so who knows? None of it made it any sense, which ironically, means it fits the current buggy state of the game perfectly for a PS4 player like myself, lol.
On a related note, the survivor challenge had the same issue. My friend and I were playing together, and I all of a sudden stopped getting Objective points (after I had been getting them normally) while he was still getting them (and he was able to finish the challenge). We were in the same game, nearly identical perks, and obviously, offerings and maps were affecting us equally. It made zero sense. :facepalm:
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@Jyn_Mojito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1707525#Comment_1707525
I thought about how to respond to this comment, because it really made me sad to read. Ppl are struggling to stay positive, both IRL and in game. The whole purpose of this thread was to share levity and laughter within the community. But you're insulting the ppl in this thread, so why are you here? That you came into a wholesome thread to insult the participants shows very clearly which party lacks maturity.
I don't know your story, or if you've had some bad experiences in game, but please respect the experience of others. Hope you have ggs, and good luck in the Fog, traveller.
Well said.
Too many people forget that this is a game. A GAME. It's not a ultra-competitive sport (maybe that poster can share his pro-gaming salary and Nike endorsements ala Lebron or Tom Brady with us, lol), and playing it isn't some life-altering profession like a doctor or a teacher, or or in the big scheme of life, it's not anything that's vitally important. It's a game that people like myself and so many others play in order to relax and fun first and foremost.
I'm competitive. I don't like to lose. And when I play DBD, that comes out sometimes. I get frustrated, sometimes angry, and I definitely do my best to win. But I try to always remember that it is still a game, that I want to remember to have fun, and that the people I'm playing against are hopefully doing the same. It's why I'll give a hatch or a door to someone. It's why I've felt bad for someone hosed over by multiple DC's and let them farm and escape, because I know how rotten it feels when that happens, and how nice it feels when someone shows some empathy towards you in that sitiation. And it's why not only is booping the snoot fun for me, but who am I to rain on someone else's fun with a snarky dismissal of what gives them a moment of joy in -- again -- a video game?
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Lol. Thanks.
Proof is in the pudding here (all 4 went free):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DE_4QOWC98E&feature=youtu.be&ab_channel=GeriatricGaming
And here (this was a slaughter until I got to the last 2, who realized they only had one chance at living -- go to 10:10 for the booping and aftermath):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqvkLYPtd1M&feature=youtu.be&ab_channel=GeriatricGaming
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Booping my snoot pretty much guarantees you're going to escape when I'm playing The Pig. 🙂
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There's a famous quote about stats. "There are three types of lies -- lies, damn lies, and statistics."
Anyone can be shown statistics. Being able to actually interpret those statistics correctly is a whole other thing entirely.
My faith in the developers to change game mechanics, perks, etc. based on their ability to interpret any set of statistics correctly and based on their track record of doing so? Percentage chance of that ... errr ... yeah ... not so high. THAT you'd don't need to be a statistical wizard to figure out.
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As a survivor, I never do anything "toxic" -- no teabags, no flashlight clicking, no pointing, etc. -- so complaints have been few, but still ...
Played as game when I was very new. Faced a facecamping Bubba on The Game. My friend was the first one downed, brought into the basement, and he told me the Bubba was facecamping and to stay away. The other two survivors ventured down into the basement (no one was running BT), and he downed them both quickly. I jumped into a locker downstairs to avoid BBQ (since even new, I knew the hatch spawns downstairs), and my friend relayed to me that the Bubba wasn't leaving, so I waited until everyone was dead to jump out. Hatch spawns right near me, and I escaped. One of the other survivors was super salty afterwards, telling me I was so useless, I should uninstall the game (mixing in a number of obscenities). i replied asking what was I supposed to do -- run down to die with everyone else, lol?
Last night, the same friend and I played against a Hillbilly who mostly tunneled my friend for the entirety of the early match, then immediately after he was unhooked, he tunneled him again, got hit by DS, then tunneled him AGAIN, downed him, then facecamped him until he died. Meanwhile, I (and our two random teammates) got the gens done and escaped. My friend got a message afterwards from the killer telling him that his use of DS was "toxic". My friend pointed out that he only was able to use it because he'd been tunneled, and that the facecamping was far, far more toxic. The killer messaged again saying simply we were all "toxic genrushers", lol, even though I did multiple generators (and the Billy was running Tinkerer) and never saw him for the most part (unless it was in the distance futilely chasing my friend :facepalm:).
As killer, the funniest was when I hooked a survivor, and another survivor was crouching right by the hook, in plain sight. I started chasing them, only for them to try to loop me right in the area near the hook. I downed them, a third teammate then failed a flashlight blind, then after I hooked the second person, I chased the third teammate, who ALSO tried looping right around the hooked survivors instead of pulling me away from them. After I hooked the third person, I moved to the other side of the map to give the team a little reset (they were at either 4 or 5 gens at that point), and after the unhooks finally happened (the fourth survivor had been across the map working on a gen when this disaster was unfolding), I purposely ignored an opportunity to down at least one of them to get my last BBQ stack on the 4th survivor. End of game, the first hooked survivor accused me of "camping the hook" and told me I was the worst killer they'd ever faced -- I guess I was supposed to ignore both of their teammates so they could do unsafe unhooks while I watched -- and the fact I let people get away afterwards -- because if I hadn't, it would have been the fastest 4K possible -- wasn't enough of a "help" to their group, lol.
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I posted this in the wholesome moments section, but it seems to fit the general theme.
I've had a lot of good moments. Satisying escapes as survivor or finishing off a toxic SWF as killer. A clutch play on either side that just felt great to nail. And I've gotten to talk to different people after games and had some very nice conversations.
The best part of the game is when something unexpected happens that reminds you that it is, at the end of the day, just a game, and everyone is hopefully having fun (even when things can get frustrating). I had a match as The Pig. I'm a sucker for a snoot boop anytime I play her. I've had one person boop, even two -- but to find four people waiting at the start of the trial to boop me? Fun times. The match ended up being a 4-person escape -- I was having too much fun to actually kill anyone. Messaged one of the survivors afterwards who was happily surprised at the fact I didn't just ruthlessly go after them -- running into toxic players makes it easy to distrust people in the game, I'm guessing. I was happy to be the exception in this case for this group.
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I don't DC when I see a Mori in the loading screen. I play it out, expecting the worst, but hoping for the best. I played a match recently (my two man SWF, my friend and I) where the killer brought an Ebony Mori and never used it, despite having numerous opportunities to do so. And I've had matches where the killer brought an Ebony Mori and never used it because everyone got out without anyone getting downed twice, You never know how any given match will play out.
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I've had a few people try it in games against me. I never face camp (or camp in general), but if I've got a down who's crawled under someone on a hook, unless there's only one generator left to pop, I'm going to wait there until I can pick them up. In every case, eventually the person on the ground moved enough for me to be able to grab them. I can imagine that if any of them were part of a SWF group, their teammates were yelling at them, "Move already -- he's not leaving me until you do! I'm going to die up here if you stay under me!". 🤣
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@Eorpwald said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1686792#Comment_1686792
You say that but what I interpreted as that killers just complain all the time because obviously if 9/10 survivors are dying then the survivors aren't OP and the people complaining are just bad.
Remember killing 2/4 survivors is a killer win. So having only a 11.79% survival rate is extremely low. Just consider that the casualty rate of WW1 was only 12.3%. You have more chance of surviving a war than surviving dbd.
This is kind of beating a dead horse, but you did read peanits' explanation/clarification in this very thread that those numbers are NOT a kill/escape rate?
Does anyone read first through an entire thread before chiming in? Apparently, doing so may be more rare than surviving any given DBD trial, lol.
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@spitfire2k5 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/198591/11-79-survival-rate-new-stats-released
Please, tell me again how the game isn't one sided?
Please, tell me that you read one page before this one in the thread the developers clarification that those numbers are not the actual kills/survivals from all matches and they are NOT an accurate account of the kill/escape rate in the game?
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@Rizzo said:
I want to specify that those numbers have been taken with active challenges only, I suggest to take them as they are without jumping to conclusions.
It's a way to celebrate the one year of the Archives, nothing more, nothing less.
Even if it's solely based on active challenges, the generators completed numbers suggest that something isn't being tallied correctly, or that there's some inaccuracy on the number of people given as sacrificed/escaped (and the number of games represented by those numbers) vs. the number of generators given as being completed.
Since the math above seems sound, can you give us more clarification as to why those numbers either do not add up or make any sense to anyone who plays the game regularly? People -- being people, obviously -- WILL jump to conclusions, incorrectly or not, on any data people release. These numbers feel "made up", to be quite honest -- the equivalent of when McDonald's would put on their marquee "Over a billion served" (and yes, I'm old enough to remember those signs, lol). It's seems like it's just hyperbolic marketing and can't be taken at face value at all.
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The generator math illustrated above -- which seems to be correct, based on released "data" from the developers -- means these "stats" are completely flawed, and any conclusion about game balance can't be drawn from those numbers. You might as well be pulling numbers out of thin air and using them as evidence for one claim or another.
I play nearly 50/50 survivor/killer. Nearly all of my survivor rounds are part of a 2-man SWF, though I do sprinkle in the occasional solo game. I float in the 5-8 Rank normally there, though I have gotten to Rank 3 as a survivor VERY briefly. My friend is normally a Rank 3-4, though he has made it to Rank 1 briefly. My killer rank normally flutuates in the same 5-8 range (if I'm practicing as Nurse or Huntress, I'll be a depip machine, lol), and I briefly had made it as high as nearly Rank 3 there as well.
Even in our WORST matches as survivor, it's rare a generator doesn't get done. Even when we're getting 4K'ed by someone, we get multiple generators done, if not all but one (or sometimes all). Sure, we get games that are a slaughter against us, but we also get many that we see multiple person (or 4-person) escapes. As a killer, I definitely have gotten a handful of games where I 4K'ed with no gens done, but those are the exception. Even in my routs, at least ONE gen is getting completed. I have a lot of games I might 4K that go down to only one gen needing to be finished to power the gates. And that doesn't count the numerous matches where some -- or all -- of the survivors have outplayed me and escaped.
I consider myself to be an "average" player on both ends -- not anywhere close to a top-tier killer like an Otzdarva, and nowhere near a top-tier survivor like a (insert popular streamer here -- there's so many I could name) -- but I feel that I do represent the majority of the player base. Not a complete potato, but someone with room to improve in both roles. That said, there's no way those few generators are getting done per match, which the numbers being given to us directly from the developers and extrapolated thusly, would indicate. I have a friend who's just learning the game (she has played survivor more than killer) -- she's had games where everyone got slaughtered at Rank 17-20, but just as many where everyone escaped because the killer simply couldn't catch anyone, so I don't think "new" players would account for those numbers either.
This seems to be a case where those numbers, like so much else in this game, are inaccurate in some way. Considering that this is a game with bugs and issues that have gone unfixed for literally years, where the 4th anniversary cakes were bugged for literally weeks and people got stuck on a hill or couldn't hook people properly for around a month, and where the developers sometimes, well-meaning and hard-working as I believe they may be, simply are clueless about certain things (I'm thinking of a recent developer statement in a thread about Pig where Amanda was called an "A-tier" killer, I believe it was) -- would it be any surprise that these "numbers" don't seem to stand up under scutiny and are likely inaccurate?
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I give hatch (or door) a lot. Not every game, but as many as I look to secure a 4K. If you've had a DC and your team was hosed over by it, or if you've had a very difficult match against me (let's say, I was running Doctor and you ended up on Hawkins or The Game), I often will let someone go. If you've run me around and really outplayed me and are the last one left, I'll likely give you hatch. I've given hatch to someone who, instead of hiding on their death hook and waiting for the hatch, made an attempt to save their teammate on hook (and failed). And someone who's willing to boop the snoot when I'm playing Pig pretty much is guaranteed an escape.
I know the feeling as survivor to expect to be sacrificed and dead in the water, only to have an escape suddenly be a thing. I know having someone give me hatch or door lifts my spirits, and I'm happy to return the favor when the situation warrants it, hoping it makes someone's day.
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I've had a lot of nice/funny/cute moments in the brief time I've been playing, but I just had one now to add to the list here.
Playing Pig and randomly put on her map, The Game. Running my current Pig build, Ruin/Undying/Discordance/BBQ, so I'm happy with the map for totem locations and just in general. Usually, I wait for Discordance to pop to give me my first clue where to go, but it's not going off. I drop into a crouch to stealth around ... and, nothing. No gens are being worked on, no signs of any survivors. I'm at a loss. Am I glitched on an empty map?
Finally, I hear a gen barely started. I move towards it and hear a flashlight click on the side of me. I see a Nea approaching me, crouching, ready to boop the snoot. Then there's the Nancy right aside of her. And Claudette. And Jane. All four crouching towards me ready to boop. 🤣
I am not always up for a farming match, but there were all so innocent and adorable, and I'm a sucker for booping the snoot. I let them all boop away, then took off. I led them to my totems (which would have actually been hard to find), got pallet stunned, got a hook of all of them for my BBQ stacks, and played generator disruptor. Finally, after the last gen was done, I followed the Jane to an exit to say goodbye, but no one else was coming. There was a noise notification from downstairs (a locker, I'm guessing), so I went to look into it, and I found the Claudette, who had found a skeleton key in a chest and another survivor at the hatch, waiting. The third survivor went looking for the Jane, I'm guessing, and soon all four of them were at the hatch. They popped it and got the four-person hatch escape, while the Jane let me smack them one last time on the way out. I talked with a couple of them afterwardn(they weren't all together, at least one was a solo), and as I told them, it was more fun than I'd had in a while in a match. ☺️
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It's been interesting seeing the variety of ages of the people who've posted so far. It's neat knowing that, despite the differences in said ages (and with it, differences in what our lives are like otherwise), this game (or having fun with a video game in general), is something we can share in common. 🙂
(BTW, it still looks like I'm the oldest in this group so far, lol 🧐).
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Yep ... I think I'm the oldest person here, lol. And it might not be close. 😯
Young at heart counts, though ... right? 😊
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@Mat_Sella said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1678964#Comment_1678964
because you know, you start the game with a list of the killers perks, and every totem is revealed 100% of the time.
The killer might be running I'm All Ears. That will give them free info too, if you're taking a vault at that loop. Or your killer might be the Blight and be running Compound 21. Or the killer might be a Wraith running All-Seeing Blood, or a Pig running Amanda's Letter, or a Shape running Scratched Mirror. You're not going to know any of those either right at the start of the game -- though the first time a mindgame you try doesn't work, you might start wondering why and alter what you do to counter it.
Are there totems that you might inadvertanly run by and not realize it? Sure -- but they're way outnumbered by obvious totem spawns that even people with my terrible eyesight can see. If and when totem spawns actually get fixed on future map reworks to actually make them harder to see most of the time, then, yes, that would be a point to consider, but with the older maps largely having totem spawns in the clear open more often than not, it's not nearly as much of an issue.
As has been pointed out, there's any number of ways to combat Undying in its current form. Those ways take more situational awareness, maybe, but those ways do exist.
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@Zeus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1678895#Comment_1678895
Now imagine if the totem was at a mindgameable loop. That's free info.
If you're trying to loop someone around a where you know there's a totem and you know the killer has Undying, that wouldn't be really optimal strategy, would it? I think I'd be looking for a better place to loop at, but that's just me.
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@Lunairtic said:
Hex: Undying does so much but for it to also reveal survivors for doing unlit totems, which is supposed to be a means to counterplay this very powerful hex, is a step too far. What are we meant to do against this is we are being punished no matter what measures we take?
Do totems when the killer is a distance away from you. The aura readings don't matter when they can't cross the map in time, even when they see you. If you're doing a totem right under a killer's nose, you're asking to get smacked, Undying or no.
Do totems when the killer is involved in a chase and otherwise occupied, and do it obviously when they're not right on top of you (especially against higher mobility killers). Nearly no killer will peel off of a chase -- especially if someone is injured they're chasing -- to go after you. Bond and Empathy (commonly run perks) -- or simply paying attention to the survivor icons on your screen -- are going to let you know when that's the case.
Do totems when the killer isn't looking towards you. How will you know when that is? Considering it's more likely than not rhat the killer isn't looking at you (the maps are big and there's any number of ways they could be looking instead) -- and if you're running a common perk like Spine Chill, you'll definitely know if that's the case -- then your aura won't even be seen.
That's three pretty simple ways to do a totem easily without an issue. As survivor, it's what I do if I suspect or know Undying is up. As a killer, I suspect it's how totems are still broken in under a minute regularly even if I'm running Undying.
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Not long after I'd started playing, I'm with my friend on an old Badham map, facing off against a Wraith. One of the other two survivors is dead, I'm on the hook in struggle mode, and my friend has just been downed. Here comes an injured Laurie running to save me, Wraith in tow. She could have let us die and looked for the hatch, but she's trying to make a play to keep us all in the game.
She pulls me off the hook just as the Wraith is uncloaking nearby. We take off running for our lives. I had -- and still have at times -- a bad habit of not looking behind me when running. The music is pounding, and I sense the Wraith is right behind me. I head for a pallet and slam it.
As I drop the pallet, I finally turned to realize that I slammed it right on the Laurie, who was ALSO behind me, and between me and the Wraith, who probably dropped their controller laughing at my display of "teamwork".
Laurie immediately gets downed, the Wraith catches up to me and finishes me off as my friend is dying laughing (and dying on the ground). We all get hooked -- game over.
I still shake my head at that one. Stun the killer with a pallet in a chase? Yeah, that might be a problem for me to pull off. Stun your fellow survivor that saved you and get them killed? Not an issue! :facepalm:
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It's a strong combo, but it's supposed to be. Inadvertanly, or on purpose, the developers by adding this perk (Undying) into the game have created a secondary objective that serves as a slowdown mechanic in early game, which has supposedly been their intent to do. Good survivor groups WILL find the totems and cleanse them, even on more difficult maps, or in some cases, they'll power through Ruin. Playing survivor, there's the occasional game where it'll wreck my friend and I (we play 2-man SWF), but just as many where we cleanse the totems (or our silent teammates do) or work through them.
As killer, I see the same -- some games where the totems are deadly effective for me, and others where they're gone super quickly. I played a round where I had all five totems cleansed in a little under 7 minutes, and Ruin was effectively destroyed in 6 -- I had another round where the Undying/Ruin combo was gone in only 32 seconds (I even saw the aura reading of one of them cleansing Ruin and couldn't get there in time!), When that can happen, that's not exactly a perk combo badly needing a nerf. (That match, which I was doing the DH rift challenge, you can watch here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEOo61_fIBM&list=UUODC_RYe0z8yDnIFlmW-TmA&index=26&ab_channel=GeriatricGaming ).
Every initial point made about the perk combo -- it overshadows other perk combos, it carries weaker players, overboard on good players, little skill to use, can be used by anyone, more difficult to counter, annoying to face -- well, that obviously applies to a certain set of survivor perks as well, and the cries to nerf those are a horse that's been beaten into the ground already. I, frankly, am fine with facing those as a killer for the same reason I'm fine facing U/R as a survivor -- there's counterplay. It's not always easy, but it exists.
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@Actionjacksn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1671699#Comment_1671699
What taken into account? Because rank doesnt matter too.... there are tons of matches where a green/yellow killer go against red survivors? How exactly this matchmaking works?
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If I see a key, I often (not always, but often) will pop in a Mori. When I play survivor, I never bring in keys, and if someone else does, I expect to see a Mori at that point. Both are part of the game, and as aggravating as they both can be, I have to remind myself of that and try not to let either get to me. It is, in the end, just a game, right?
What is INFINITELY better than a Mori, however, is watching someone switching last second to a new character who has a key already equipped (keeping me from making any adjustments to counter it), watching that player burn a hatch offering to boot, then yanking them off of a totem as Ghostface right at the start of the match -- only to have them DC and rage quit. 🤣 Good times!
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@DBD78 said:
Survivors hiding is the worst one. I once had two survivors left with three gens to go I was searching for 15 minutes before I had to DC.
Killers pretending to give hatch and then close it when you are near, then letting you bleed out. Happened to me a couple of times.
The "pretend to give you hatch or door" play definitely is scummy. I had a killer down me as the last survivor after they'd closed the hatch, carry me to a door, let me wiggle off, then downed me again as soon as the door was opened, just to hook me near the exit. The tease is completely unneccesary -- if you want the 4K, just take it when you have it and don't prolong things.
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I actually think that Undying and NOED do not have good synergy with one another. If you play only those two hex perks, survivors will likely find the one lit Undying totem you have at some point and cleanse it (unless it's on one of the few maps that have solid totem spawns), and it won't be around to work with NOED when the time comes. If you play it with something else that's directly affecting a survivor team (Ruin, for example), the survivor team is really going to be totem hunting, and either dull totems are going to used when the other perk gets cleansed and a transfer happens, and NOED will have no place to land, or Undying will be cleansed. I think NOED/Undying is one of those concepts that looks good in theory on paper, but in practice doesn't actually prove to be effective in practice.
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A lot of what's been mentioned so far are game mechanics that, while they aren't pleasant for the player, are part of the game, and you sometimes have to just suck it up and live with it. I play a ton of both survivor and killer, and while I'm not a fan of being moried early or tunnelled as a survivor, or seeing keys, DS exploits, or certain map offerings as a killer, those things are part of the game. They're not necessarily fun, but I don't think any of them fall into the "scummy" definition. Even running OOO, which is usually going to get you my full attention as a killer and then some, isn't what I would call "scummy" -- it's a perk in the game, though it's probably going to end up with the player running it having me as company until they're dead, lol.
"Scummy" for me is a crossing the line act that is something past what's "permissable: gameplay. A survivor who sandbags the team to help the killer (this has happened, thankfully, only a very few number of times) is probably the worst thing that would fit the definition, or someone hacking/exploiting as a way to cheat (again, very rare). When the hook bug was a thing, I faced a team that purposefully brought in a sabotage build and used offerings to increase the distance between hooks to attempt to use that to their advantage (plus they attempted to bodyblock hooks when I downed someone and was fighting the bug to try to cause wiggle escapes for their teammates) -- that, I thought, was a pretty scummy tactic using a well-known bug to try to avoid hooks (I 4Ked anyway, which was pretty satisfying).
The only killer acts I've found "scummy" as a survivor is having someone facecamp right out of the gate (during EGC, I understand it). It happens very rarely, but the "facecamp the first person downed" killer would fall into that definition. The Spirit player who refused to ever hook anyone, but kept downing people and leaving them there until everyone finally bled out (this wasn't typical slugging, which is a perfectly fine tactic) -- yeah, that person played scummy.
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Tonight, my friend and I played against a Spirit who refused to hook anyone until the very end of the match. Whenever they downed someone, they'd leave them slugged. No matter what the circumstance was, they refused to pick anyone up. We kept picking each other up and doing gens, but eventually the Feng and the Claudette both bled out from being on the ground so many times. I ended up going down, and the Spirit carried me to the hatch and dropped me on it. They found my friend, chased him down, and then finally hooked them just as I bled out on top of the hatch. One hook the entire game for this Spirit. One of the worst, if not the worst, experiences I've had in the game.
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Seeing auras and actually being able to get to them are two different things altogether.
I had a match today where both Undying and Ruin were cleansed within 40 seconds of the match starting. I couldn't even get to either of the totems (on Blood Lodge) before they were gone (I saw the aura of the person cleansing Undying, but not the person on Ruin). Until totems on all maps are actually remotely difficult to find (in the above example, I wouldn't be shocked if rhe survivors had spawned directly in front of the totems), the aura reading, while helpful, isn't game-breaking at all. The killer has to be both close enough for it to matter and not otherwise occupied (in a chase, carrying someone to a hook, etc.).
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He's a solid middle-of-the-pack killer. Nowhere near Nurse/Spirit level, but far better than Wraith/Legion level. He's a LOT of fun to play. He provides two approaches to play matches (which can be done simultaneously) -- stalking for one-hit downs, or stealthing to sneak up on survivors (used with Nurse's Calling makes for a lot of easy downs when you have people injured). Spine Chill, as stated already, can cause issues, and his stalking mechanics seem out of whack at times (I've been broken out of stalk for seemingly no reason before, but at the same time have literally stalked a person staring right at me in a wide-open space, so go figure).
If you like a stealthier playstyle, he's a blast to play. The jumpscares you can get by pulling someone off of a gen or totem, or hitting a healing survivor from around the corner of a wall, alone make him worth it to play. He's definitely one of my favorites and, as someone already said, any killer is capable of being really good once you learn how to play them.
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Any boop of the snoot by the last survivor when I'm playing Pig (usually, when I've already decided to give them hatch/door) is a good feeling. I've had survivors I've let out leave flashlights/tool boxes/med-kits behind as a thank you. It always gives me a good feeling, and it reaffirms that not every survivor I run into is going to be toxic.
Best survivor moment was facing off against a face-camping Leatherface in Hawkins. My friend and I were the two last remaining (I had gotten rescued from a face-camp by another survivor, and DS'ed after to get away). I finished the last gen just as he was downed. As I opened a door, I was able to watch him kobe, then DS the Leatherface, and we both managed to escape. Great feeling and huge fail by the killer.
Best killer moment has to be a match as The Shape on a corn map. Chased an Ace who teabagged and pointed at every pallet. Ruin went down quick, gens were flying. At 2 gens left, I essentially gave up and parked myself by a door, tired of watching Ace loop me and teabag every chance he got. Last 2 gens got popped right after, I opened the gate and stood nearby. The Ace and a Claudette came up to me, with the Ace refusing to leave and continuing to taunt. I smacked him once -- the "You can leave, you know -- the open door is RIGHT THERE" warning -- but he continued to taunt. I knocked him down, carried him into the middle of the map, and waited. I had Tier 3 a sliver away, so when the Claudette came to rescue him, I popped Tier 3 and instadowned her. Waited by the hook, caught another Claudette sneaking up and downed her, then caught the last survivor making his way to the Ace on the hook and instadowned him. Turned a "I surrender, already" match with me opening the doors for them into a 4K against a SWF that couldn't just leave a game they dominated, but had to stick around to play the bullies. Most satisfying moment I've probably ever had in the game. 😁
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I play Ruin/Undying on most of my builds now, especially slower starters (like the Trapper) and lower mobility killers (like the Pig). Had a round the other day where I heard a totem break (early-to-mid match), looked at my screen and saw Ruin was gone, but Undying was still active. My first thought was "There's a new bug!" because ... you know, this game is always bugged, lol. Took me a second to realize that the survivors I was facing had actually cleansed Ruin AND cleansed the other three dull totems on the map already, giving Ruin no place to jump to.
I had been pressuring gens, and I ended up (I think) with a 2K. It wasn't a SWF group (or if it was, it was no more than a 2-man, with a couple of solo players sprinkled in), so it was just a matter of players doing totems when they found them (and likely searching them out when they realized Ruin was a thing). Great play on their part, and a perfect example of how that combo can be countered effectively, as they still managed to work on gens as well.
This point doesn't address Tinkerer, but I played a match with a friend (we play as a two-man, and often end up with two solo players with us in lobby) against a red-ranked Blight running this three-perk combo. One of the solos DC'ed almost immediately after being downed for the 1st time early in the match -- we still managed to have one escape, despite being in a 3 v. 1 all match. We worked around it by cleansing totems (we broke Undying first, then got to Ruin), and once we figured out he had Tinkerer, we were working on gens on opposite sides of the map and jumping off once we got to the 70% range and hid (we both run Spine Chill, so that helped), If we knew someone was in a chase away from us, we were able to ignore Tinkerer to finish the gens. It wasn't easy, and only one of the 3 of us (my friend, not the solo) got out, but considering the skill level of the player and the disadvantage we were at, it shouldn't have been easy. If we'd hadn't had the DC, we might have managed a 4-man escape.
A killer running this is going to be tough to beat, but then again, why would anyone want an easy game every time they play? This game was more fun because it was definitely a challenge, and we had to actually think through our actions, and we couldn't mindlessly plow through gens without repercussions.
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That is one heck of a play. If I'd been the killer, I could only have applauded that save.
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I play a lot of Pig and she's NOT an A-tier killer. The disconnect between the people who work on the game and the people who actually play the game is staggering sometimes. I run the Ruin/Undying combo now, with Discordance and BBQ -- if the totems stick, that and the RBT slowdown (even having to go to one box is a delay) will swing the game -- if they don't. then I'm likely in some trouble. Large maps are problematic since she doesn't have the mobility of a Billy, Freddy, Spirit, Blight, etc., and she doesn't have the one-hit capability of Myers, Oni, Ghostface, etc. Her ambush attack works against non-Spine Chill players, and it can be effective at a pallet loop (against an injured survivor, and if you can crouch behind something -- it turns the pallet into a 50/50 guess on a survivor's part), but once survivors know they're facing the Pig, it's going to be less effective later on than in early game (if the roar came in the middle of the dash instead of before, it would be a HUGE step in making it a more lethal attack).
Her add-ons are mostly bleh. The Timer/Gears combo can net a kill here and there, but still only if luck is on your side. Amanda's Letter is a fun meme build and can be effective, but you need a Map offerring (Hawkins is my choice) to really make it work. Most of her add-ons are terrible or ineffective and are badly in need of a rework. She's not a terrible killer -- she's underrated, IMO, and capable when played well -- but she's nowhere near the level of Nurse/Freddy/Spirit/PH/etc, or even Billy/Blight/others.
Like I said, I play a lot of her. I have a LOT of good rounds and a few bad ones, but it's largely based on the quality of the team I'm facing. Random solos who can't coordinate? I'll do fine. 3-4 man SWF on comms? Yeah, that's going to be a whole different story. I avoid runnelling if at all possible, and I don't chase someone with a trap on unless they happen to wander past me looking for someone while heading for a box (and even then, I'll usually down them and leave them instead of hooking them). I only chase trapped survivors if I have literally no other target available.
Regarding Booping the Snoot -- I don't think I've EVER had someone try to boop me at the beginning of a match. I often give hatch/door to someone at the end of a game, and if you're helpless and approach me to boop, that's a guaranteed escape for you. I'm a sucker for the Boop, but if someone wanted to do it at the start of a game, I might let them, then smack them and head off somewhere else as a warning shot, lol.
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@Mikeasaurus said:
Honestly, in my 2 years of playing this game, I've yet to see a survivor do a gen when their trap is active. Even when it's not, they just go to a box instantly. Myself I'll do a Gen until it activates, then I prioritze getting it off ASAP.
When I play survivor, the key always seems to be in the last box, so I prioritize getting it off as well.
I played a Pig around recently where I got a trap kill without the benefit of the Tampered Timer/Crate of Gears combo. The first gen popped right as I downed and trapped my first survivor. They were rescued, I got another down, another gen popped, then they were unhooked. A little bit later, I got the Game Over notification, to my surprise. I hadn't even seen them since I'd hooked them, but there had been two unhooks of other survivors and a third gen finished since they'd been unhooked -- my guess was that they'd had a part in some of that rather than getting their trap undone, and they were unlucky in searching the boxes. Huge mistake on their part that probably doomed their entire team at that point in the match, and it's something I never see ordinarily.
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Ruin before Undying was introduced was becoming borderline unplayable. It was either game-changing in the killer's favor (if it spawned somewhere super-difficult to find, i.e. some of the Hawkins spawns, Midwich spawns, etc.) or completely useless and gone in 60 seconds or less (the majority of the maps, particularly the older ones, where totems spawn literally in the wide-open). The problem was that, due to most totem spawn locations being so open, that ratio (at least in my games) tended to be 90% worthless, 10% stupidly good, and nothing in between. It was a complete hit-and-miss, but with way too many "misses", even for a Hex perk (which is supposed to be a high risk/reward perk, but not the equivalent of hitting a lottery ticket).
Since Undying, Ruin is at least serviceable again (though at the cost of two perk slots). As has been pointed out already, if the killer isn't pushing people off of generators, it won't matter. I've had plenty of survivor matches, both before Undying came out and since, where I've sat on a gen and completed it easily, even with Ruin up, because the killer never disturbed me/us. If the killer can't down anyone, or keeps getting caught up in long chases, it's easily possible to finish all 5 gens with Ruin staying up the entire game. I've done that as a survivor (and even as a solo).
I had a stretch a while back where I played Ruin and lost it under 60 seconds in ten straight matches in a row (one in 27 seconds! I was timing it with the stopwatch on my phone). Today I played a match where both Ruin AND Undying were gone in barely a minute (while I was in the middle of hooking a survivor). I had another match today where, immediately after spawning in, I headed to the far side of the map (where I had a totem) and got there just in time to watch the survivor break it in my face (it was Ruin, which thankfully respawned due to Undying), meaning that in that match, it was actually impossible for me to have done anything to protect my perk no matter what I did if Undying wasn't in play. I've also had matches where Ruin has stayed up the entire match, simply because survivors wouldn't cleanse a somewhat obvious lit totem a few meters away from a generator they refused to give up trying to finish (spoiler: they all died, lol).
The fact that Ruin can be worked through (if you're efficient), can still be broken early (even with Undying), and only works if the killer is applying pressure somewhere, means that there's nothing broken at all about it currently. As someone who plays 50/50, I have no problem going against it in its current state, and I think it's finally workable enough to use on killer builds again.