CautionaryMary
CautionaryMary
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@buggybug said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3879400#Comment_3879400
fair point I honestly be switching between the two based on how am feeling, usually in swf ill run harden but solo q calm spirit instead.
Interesting, what is your Hardened build out of curiosity? Again, I've never used it other than the Lara adept, lol.
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@CursedPerson said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3878582#Comment_3878582
Cut loose has to activated withing 6 seconds but thats very rarely something you do immediately again in chase and it also has a 45 second cooldown making it extremely situational hence the downsides being the timers on the perk and initial activation requirement.
Friendly competition pretty sure i was clear on this but ill explain it better. When multiple survivors are repairing a gen their is a -15% efficiency penalty for each survivor on the gen so the downside is you have to be less efficient to gens to gain +5% speed for 75 seconds. which is just a net negative if you run this perk. Prove thyself gives you +10% repair speed so it already does what this perk does but better as you're not even guaranteed to be able to make use of the bonus.I can concede Cut loose is more of the perk badly designed with no room to even get a payoff but friendly competition is all downsides.
I agree those botany and rapid brutality perks having appropriate and proportionate downsides and they are great perks with fair tradeoffs
Yeah, I don't mind Botany Knowledge as I often run it with Leader for myself to get fast heals and me give fast heals to others.
For @buggybug , I prefer Calm Spirit (I like to run it with Shoulder The Burden) as I prioritize gens over totems (unless a Hex is in play). I agree with you that the whole doing things slower is a worthless downside to the perk. It's strange to me when you look at all the most popular perks via Nightlight.gg - a lot of those perks hardly have any downsides whatsoever, hence why they're used as often as they are.
Botany I believe just got the heavy nerf due to the medkit and CoH nerfs, so it was nerfed due to that. All of these perks that have downsides like @Rokku_Rorru says prevents them from being more used. Even if you take away these downsides, they still would not crack the top ten but at least the pool for variety would increase.
There is no reason why Calm Spirit has the nerf that it has, while Thrill of the Hunt got its buff.
No reason why Wake Up got the nerf that it got, while Remember Me got the buff that it got.
Invocations needing to be done separately (if you pair them), the large indicator that it's in play if a killer goes to basement, the loud sound effect it makes when a survivor finishes it, and the permanent broken status effect is why I would never use it - only time I used it was Sable's adept and even I didn't use the perk as it's essentially throwing the game.
Deadline needing the skill checks to occur more only when you're injured is such a weird nerf as it's so situational to get value from it.
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@KaTo1337 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3879214#Comment_3879214
Indeed.
Is he an S- or A-Tier-Killer? Definitely noHe is now - for me - a mid-tier killer and thats perfectly fine, as long as you have fun and actually… getting Dream Pallet-Rupture hits (Unicorn Block is doing so good) is exciting.
I don't know how I'd rank him personally, but I do believe he has much more mobility making him more accessible to people at least.
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@VibranToucan said:
I play Dead by Daylight. I get a daily for weak Killer I don't play that much. I equip a mid build. I queue up as that Killer. The Survivors bring a Map Offering. I don't tunnel, and I go for the insta pick up even when another Survivor is nearby. Over the course of the match I get two Survivors hooked twice. I already got my daily so I play chill and try to ignore them. They complete the gens and open the gates. I do spins with them at the exit gate. All 4 escape. I'm ready to say "GG" in end game chat. Read "EZ", "you play like ass", "noob killer", "tutorial", "learn to play", etc… I switch to my browser and open the forums. I read a post about how killers mains are extremely toxic.
Screw it, I am switching to Blight.
It goes on both ways, both can be incredibly toxic to one another.
Only time I message a killer is ggs or I pop into their stream and type ggs.
Only time I am "toxic" is when it's done to me and even then, I just respond accordingly. I guess it's easier for me to not take things so personally because I play on PS5, I don't need to see the end game chat and the ez's or L player mentality. I get out of a game, re-queue up, and do another. People get way too sensitive over a game over people that they don't personally know.
Just move on and get a new game or just play a different game if you're getting tilted over what random people do or say.
Killer is toxic with the humping on the ground, do I message every killer complaining about being humped on the ground? No, I laugh it off because I got under his skin during a strong chase.
Same thing when a survivor teabags at a pallet, they're losing distance, doesn't matter to me anyways.
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@KaTo1337 said:
The best part on the new Freddy is:
He is more interactive!
You are doing much more stuff in the game. Placing Pallets, destroying your Dream Pallets, Shooting around, more teleports.Exactly, he is more interactive and "fun" to play in a way.
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To me, Freddy isn't strong.
Pallets are easy to work around as long as you keep yourself awake and you can easily just throw them unless he has the Paint Thinner add-on where you're revealed and he can teleport to you.
I just go around dropping them when I'm awake to render the pallets useless and to help other people in chase, as he can easily swap between pallets and dream snares.
His dream snares are easy to avoid, especially if you're at a tile that he can't easily see over. All it does is hinder you and as long as you're good at looping, it's fine.
I honestly think his best add-ons are Paint Thinner and Red Paint Brush, but that's just my opinion from playing him a little as I wanted to see how different he was from his past version. I actually prefer his old dream snares, as I said, his new ones are harder to hit and requires more skill.
The only thing that's annoying is the whole teleport when healing, but again, that's easily something a survivor can work around as you can use any clock on the map. Teleporting to a gen is fine, just let go, and walk away from the gen - he won't know you're there and just get back on the gen.
Sometimes when I'm asleep and doing a gen, I'll stay asleep and continue doing the gen instead of repeatedly waking up like some survivors do. He's stronger than what he was, but he isn't undefeatable.
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@MinxyJinxTTV said:
Notice the killer main reactions… They truly feel the game is either balanced or lopsides for Survivors… You know it not.. but if you totally suck ass as killer youll try and convince the general DBD community otherwise.. You see when i play killer and I do.. i am surgical with Legion, a nightmare with Tiffany, and have a habit of making people DC with Skuli.. and i see how lopsided the game really is when i play killer.. I catch EZ 4K's within 3 Gens.. sometimes 2.. I would make a Great Killer Main.. but my Twitch Audience prefers Survivor so they can take part and play alongside me… So many Killer Mains truly think they know everything.. You realize Devs can make many many changes in this Game without announcing they made the changes.. and to think they dont it stupid on your part.. It simple.. Go research all of the Changes announced for 2024.. They are indeed listed.. 78% are Buffs for killers.. with very few Nerfs like the supposed nerf to Skuli which in no way hindered her at all.. Nerfs seem to be centered mainly toward Survivors.. its listed on this site if you dont believe me and want to go check it out.. but its prolly easier to believe how you want to believe because it benefits you and the way you play..
Yes, I played Onryo literally like a week or two ago because my friends wanted me to play and watch me play via screen share and I easily 4ked.
The only time I struggled was when I played Knight for the first time and I only got one kill. Does this mean I think Knight needs to be buffed or that survivors are too strong? No. I'm not skilled at Knight, it was my first game, and I don't expect myself to magically be good at Knight like I am with Onryo.
People get so wrapped up in games and think because they get a 3k/4k, all games need to be like that and when it doesn't go their way - they blame SWF.
Same thing on the survivor area - you completely obliterate a killer and get a 4 man out and when things go south, you see some people advocate that killer is too strong.
You're not going to win every single game you load up into and people need to be more realistic about stuff. If I can take months off of playing Onryo and come back to a 4k, it's because I put in the time to know how to play her.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3878677#Comment_3878677
If Windows wasn't my auto-include perk, it would be Deja Vu. The perk was good even before the gen speed buff.
Deja Vu is beautiful because I find sometimes gens can be clustered on one side and bordering on having five gens (almost sometimes, especially on Autohaven).
I try not to use Windows on my end, as I like to free up perk slots and it helps me get better at chase as I'm always memorizing where pallets are by looking everywhere during a chase or remembering tiles. 😆
In all honesty, I don't even use Deja Vu for a speed boost - I believe it only shaves off a couple seconds unless you're doing a full gen speed build. I just like the information it provides as it sucks getting into a 3-gen scenario.
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@Roco45 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3879021#Comment_3879021
What are you talking about lol You can play Phasmophobia with friends, its a game literally designed around playing with friends. IDC if all SWF are not on comms, that's a them issue. The game is being balanced around SWF when SWF don't even make up the majority of the playerbase. At this rate, SoloQ is going to disappear and it's just going to be SWF and that will make Killers get even more toxic.
I shouldn't have to make my own game because I want this game to be balanced, this game should be balanced lol That's literally what BHVR is supposed to be doing for an online PVP game. We wouldn't be seeing any of the issues this game has rn if SWF were nerfed to be balanced.
You also didn't address anything, the closest you got was you going "IDK how to code that" well go figure, you don't work at BHVR lol
SWF is the entire reason this game is atrocious rn. The only people who support it are those in SWF reaping the easy benefits and making alt accounts to keep voting their posts lol
There is no friends list and you have to go out of your way to add people via Discord or adding them directly as a friend if you're on the same platform.
Regardless, this conversation isn't going anywhere and you keep resorting to some strawman about not working for Behavior like I really care. 🤷🏾♀️ Like I said, make your own game, and implement the rules that you feel necessary for it to flourish.
You're saying that SWF makes killers play the way that they play, but as Aven Fallen said earlier - comms ISN'T what makes SWF strong. It's the fact that you're playing with other people who know what they're doing. Like I said earlier, I played with a RANDOM Nancy and if I played with her again with no COMMS, we would be fine as we both KNOW how to play. I have FINE games when I solo-queue because my RANDOMS know what they're doing. It has nothing to do about COMMS and everything to do with SKILL.
Also, that's funny as hell that you're implying my upvotes are from alt accounts. ☠️ Jesus Christ.
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@Japp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3878669#Comment_3878669
You probably think exponential is not OP because you play solo mostly. For teams is OP, you fall on a pallet within the boon's area and your friend is there to save you if the killer tries to pick up, if the killer doesn't you can get yourself up.
I may have not made myself really clear when I wrote the perk, English is my 3rd language after all. What I meant is that you do not make sounds while your'e repairing the gen, not that the gen progression would be muted.
In the end is not like bhvr will check this out and think about it or anyhting like that haha. They probably have mapped their perks for the next 3 years and all we write here is irrelevant and just keeps us busy hahaMaybe check out my latest perk suggestion?: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/437818/new-perk-suggestion-boon-symbiotic-light/p1?new=1
No, I mostly have been playing SWF and just recently went back to solo-queue every now and then.
The reason why I said Exponential isn't OP is because most killers pick up and hook. It's very rare that a killer will allow you to sit and recover and obviously I have gotten use out of a Boon: Exponential before but it's a very situationally used boon that depends on what the killer does. Same for Unbreakable in a way — both of these circumstances depend on the killer, most killers down, pick up, and hook. Even then, it's best to focus on gens and not necessarily get the save. It's a very risky tactic to do and sometimes it's best to let the person get hooked rather than rushing in trying to save - as that's two people off of generators.
Yes, generator noise (like the little click, click, click) noise is what killers mostly need to figure out a generator's progress. The boon that you said you wanted to have would make killers have to go physically check on a gen instead of hearing the noise of a survivor working on it, for example.
I like the idea of the perk, just not with all of the additions implemented into them. Not having any sounds like footsteps, repairing, vaulting, and chests are all noises that a killer gets to determine what a survivor is doing and without that, the boon would be too OP.
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@Roco45 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3878782#Comment_3878782
DBD is also the only game you've seen with multiplayer that wasn't based around playing with friends and has yet to add in what every other multiplayer has, voice comms.
Correct, most games are steamrolls and that's because Killers are overbuffed and Surv gameplay in general has been nerfed into boredom to compensate for the advantage SWF have over Killers. Literally is why SoloQ is unplayable and why Killers are all so sweaty and salty from the matches they vs against SWF. If SWF didn't have advtanages, then Killers would have no problem playing against them, but no one wants to.
Though lets circle back to you not knowing how BHVR could code a mechanic like gen debuff into this game, instead of actually talking about the viability of gen debuffs curbing SWF advantages. The entirety of Surv gameplay has been dumbed down to compensate for SWF and the entire game suffers because of it, get over yourself and your need to retain unfair advantages, they should be balanced out.
If Behavior didn't want people to play with friends, they would implement something like what Phasmophobia does where there is no friend's list where you can functionally add people after a game, no?
They can easily code that in completely bypassing a certain issue that you have. Notice how I mentioned your unnecessary 2 man SWF argument needing a debuff and how not all SWF are on comms, yet wanting to add restrictions.
How about this mister developer, make your own DBD clone, and implement ALL the changes you want, and we can see how your game fares to the obviously SWF-sided game. You can do all the changes that you want to a 60% kill rate game with a slightly higher 40% for 4 MAN SWF, mister coder. 😉
Learn to get better and quit claiming it's SWF boogeyman holding you down.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3878964#Comment_3878964
That doesn’t make a difference. If all the survivors are slugged, and they have 0 hook states, it’s a poor game decision to hook any of them, because they might self unhook and save their teammates.
The bigger question is “why doesn’t the game automatically end after all the survivors have been slugged for over 60 seconds”? Clearly none of the survivors can pick themselves off the ground, and the killer clearly isn’t picking anyone up, so the game should recognize this and either teleport them to 2v8 cages, or just auto-sacrifice all the survivors.
It's more so the argument that the killer is fundamentally bypassing the hook stage process by choosing not to hook.
But to each their own, it's hard for solo-queue to combat slugging and easier for SWF to do so. Just pushes more people to play with friends as it's easier to communicate and coordinate, especially if the killer is running Knock Out.
I know people make the argument that gen regression is weak (Pain Res and Pop are still the most used perks), along with avoiding unhooking and second chance perks but it really curb stomps people who primarily play this game solo.
Regardless if a killer is excessively slugging with Knock Out, survivors can jump into a locker to avoid being on the ground and their solo-queue teammates being blind (still think it needs a timer). In this situation in Mech's picture, the best thing to do is separate and not be near one another but obviously I don't know the full context of what happened to get to where it was. I won't be surprised that more people play with one another to compensate for the amount of slugging. Luckily, I don't see it as often as it can be annoying to deal with and many people do not know how to counter it as they have to think outside of the box to handle this playstyle.
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@tjt85 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3878941#Comment_3878941
I'm sure new purchasable moris are probably in the works and will be in the store one day. Adding the finisher Mori was just the first step.
If I'm grumpy and I don't feel like watching the Killer mori me, I'll just get up to go get some snacks or make a drink. It's not a big deal.
Yeah, I just recover most of the time and either crawl away or just stay if it's a slugging killer.
I don't mind the mori (I do find more killers slug for it), but other than that I don't get upset when people pick me up to move me elsewhere. I don't even get upset about the humping thing, I just find it funny because they're wasting time humping — I try not to let DBD get me tilted though. 😂
Hopefully it comes in the game, instead of being attached to specific skins. Should have just announced it and waited on the mori system mechanic, imo.
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@Musxussu575 said:
It's not every Huntress…
…but when 'it' is, it's always a Huntress.
It takes a special type of 🤓 to bend over backwards and go out of their way to discover the radius that they must stand outside of.
AFC was a good idea, but it never works. The bar fills far too slowly to be viable, and doesn't activate at all during Endgame Collapse. Nor does it activate when a killer is chasing or picking up a survivor, but I suppose that makes sense. AFC only works if the killer is standing up against you face-to-face. In other words, it only works if the angry killer is hitting you on hook.
But then, even if you do get to unhook yourself, do you think the killer is just going to let you run off and reset/heal? They'll chase you to the ends of the earth to ensure you get re-hooked. So AFC really only implements you achieving an extra hook stage.
Yeah, I remember a friend and I about six months ago we were doing a little stat game where we counted what killer we got, if they camped/tunneled, and how many used Pain Res.
In the month of September, we saw a couple Huntresses (6 out of 112) games and we noticed that 4/6 employed a similar strategy such as the video above ^ but it's definitely managable. Especially the ones who do what the video shows but with iridescent head. However, wasting her time and buying your team time will make her move eventually. Either that, or she will just get 1k to 2k max if people pressure gens and recognize that she's trying to snipe people attempting rescues.
Edit: on another note, that's why I like to stay on the hook as long as possible. I like to just unhook myself right before I hit second stage, rather than unhooking right away as again — it wastes their time. I do the same when I'm running Deliverance or any unhooking perk such as Wicked - it's like an adrenaline rush watching them panic as I unhook myself right before second. ☠️ It's all about time management in this game and I would not recommend someone to instantly unhook themselves when a killer is hardcore tunneling or proxy camping.
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@DragonMasterDarren said:
Because good cinematography is priceless
I really wish that they would have made a Mori system because it's honestly so boring seeing the same Mori over and over again.
I still do not know why they have not implemented one and it would actually spark interest in the game to see different moris. But no, seeing the same Mori constantly gets a little boring — at least to me.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3878931#Comment_3878931
Oh I get that, but there is no way to determine if players are on comms or not, since even cross platform you can have comms via discord.
I have no illusions I'm in the minority here, I am just saying that I'd prefer this system in SWF, as even without comms, having a drafting system or just being able to see each other's builds with this limitation, where moat left player would take priority on perk choices, would engage me personally much more in SWF. 😅
However I'm an old school s2-3 Jungle player in League of Legends, the kind of player that naturally had to think about team compositionas a regular part of my game strategy since carrying from the jungle wasn't really viable back then... ofc beyond team chat and pings you had no comms, so you had to do a lot of this kinda things.
S4 onwards wanted the jungle to be able to carry, so that need to thunk about team comp was greatly diminished.... I eventually quit the game because if this shift in mentality.
So I'm more making a suggestion of what I personally would like to see... knowing full well moat won't agree 😁
Oh no, I'm not trying to argue or anything. 😅
I was just pointing out for clarification speaking as you were the poster after mine and the idea occurred to me as I had that game last night. ☠️
Similarly to you, there are times where I like to solo-queue (it's relaxing to not have to call out every single thing) and just play. Other times it's nice to just play with people and get a laugh — that's my SWF group, but they typically have less hours and I just slowly teach them things (my group likes to call me DictionaryMary, lol).
But yes, it would liven SWF up sure but I don't know, again I like player freedom and variety. Not many people do what I do where I play with different builds (some survivors play full meta or popular perks) and unless there was killer restrictions as well (similar to comp DBD) — killers just lose me when the idea of non-duplicating perks come into the picture. I've seen the game with MomoSeventh where he lost to a seemingly comp team where they all brought second chance perks - but most SWF do not play like that.
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@UndeddJester said:
SWF must exist for the life of the game, and you can't impose strong limits on it otherwise you would massively hinder the appeal of the game for many players.
That said... Since a lot of people want voice comms, it would be cool if you could queue with a remade, queue for "true solo" with no voice comms, and queue solo with voice comms... however being in a SWF or in a voice comms group limits you to 1 copy of any perk and only 1 of any unique item for each person using cooms in that group.
This would mean playing "true solo" frees you up for any build you want, but playing "comms" means you have to compromise on build variety and look for team combos.
I can only speak for me personally I would actually consider playing SWF more.... Outside of banter with people, I don't really find playing SWF interesting. If you could pose the suggestion to use different builds, then cool, but you need a mic, then you kinda have to be "that guy" to insist on it, and who cba to go through that rigmarole of trying to get everyone on board?
If you mandated it, maybe even included a draft system, that would for me make playing in a SWF far more interesting, cause you're actually thinking about what your team are doing, who is good at what and what role they want to fill.
This would give a little more wiggle room for the strength of perks and items, since SWF would be reigned in a little, and we wouldn't have this issue of "SWF can spam this perk" all the time.
This of course wouldn't happen... but I'd certainly find this a lot more engaging... kinda like dabbling in comp... without going full bore into comp...
Yes, people think because you queue up with others that you MUST be on comms.
Yesterday I was playing a 3 man SWF and I was going against a Hillbilly with a random Nancy who was smacking my butt three times, I returned the favor, and we had a nice little exchange where at the end gate I looped him for a bit and she flashlight saved me multiple times in the end game scenario. Very good player, obviously.
After the game, she friend requested me and she is a PC player (while I'm on console) and in any situation that I'd play with this person - we would have zero comms. Just because you queue up with a person doesn't mean that you will have comms — so, thinking that all SWF use comms or no comms is a mute point. Sometimes people group up with others because they recognize skill potential. I've played "SWF" with random PC players who have added me and some people in this forum might think I'm using "comms", when in reality, all you need as a survivor are people who know how to actually play without throwing the game.
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@buggybug said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3878847#Comment_3878847
To be fair though even before the worthless anti meter exist it was the same strategy do gen rush but actually it not being there when i think of it was better cause if bubba waste more time insidi camp in basment then on a big map be is toast to try get more kills though those tend to have noed.
I mean, the anti-camp meter has helped me directly with a permanent tier 3 Myers camping right in front of my face when it first came out, lol.
But yes, that's why you punish the behavior. I know people like to kill themselves on hook or DC in these situations, but I don't know - I like to waste the killer's time just like they would be by standing around and camping me. Plus, I like to give my team the best chance of survival and in this situation, it's best to just sit there on hook and give your team time to do gens.
Insidious Bubba before anti-camp meter was still strong, especially against solo-queue without any comms. At least now, if someone chose to do Insidious Bubba - you can see him as he's not directly in basement anymore due to the change.
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@DxDen1004 said:
What is the point of it, if the killer can still camp you, just a couple meters further away, while looking at you?
Just remove it altogether.The point of the anti-camp meter is to prevent a killer from directly camping in front of your face.
Sure, a Huntress can play like how you showed in the clip — at the same time, your team should be doing gens to punish this type of behavior as well. Doing generators near her would suffice to make her stop doing this specific playstyle, as it brings her attention to them and away from you.
It prevents killers such as Bubba from doing the insidious playstyle that many survivors would get upset about. The anti-camp meter is working as intended, but because you're going against a ranged killer who can effectively proxy camp doesn't mean the function doesn't work as intended. Additionally, survivors could hook trade with you if all else fails, but this type of behavior is done because it works and people do not punish this behavior, hence why Huntress is "abusing" it.
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@SoGo said:
You have 4 ways to deny all of his powers, except gen teleport.
Using a clock, teammates, skill checks, getting downed and unhooked/picked up.
Even gen teleport is easy to work around as all you have to do is walk away from the gen when he hooks someone.
That's what I started doing when I realized he can teleport and get killer instinct if you're in the little radius. He's not that overpowered from what I have seen with him, just takes getting used to, imo.
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@Roco45 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877477#Comment_3877477
You don't know how to code mechanics into DBD to block Survs in a SWF from having duplicate perks? Thank god you're not a Dev. Let's let a BHVR Dev do that, yea?
Likewise, mechanics such as gen debuffs can be given to SWF in varying degrees of amount. 4man SWF gets the largest and 2 man SWF get's the lowest debuff. SoloQ Survs get no debuff. Simple, easy, logically is sound since Killers complain about gen speeds from SWF coordination.
All things could be added to the Test Servers to check viability, but what BHVR does currently is absolutely nothing and it's been ruining the game.
Lmao, I have no idea why you're coming at me sideways like you're some game developer of your own. 😂
The only game in any multiplayer that I've seen that wants to punish people for playing with their friends for a marginal percentage increase of getting a 3k/4k easily handed to you.
Already most games are steamrolls as many on these forums attest to that, yet you want to take away player freedom from the individual because of big bad boogeyman SWF. Get a grip and stop demonizing SWF like all of them can loop optimally or not put themselves into 3-gen scenarios.
I'm glad you're not a game developer because your views are atrocious for wanting to nerf a 2 MAN SWF, lol.
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@WolfePhD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3878532#Comment_3878532
if we both combine our powers maybe Vittorio and Jonah can be in Waterfront Massacre this year!!! it’s about time Vittorio gets a pair of shorts too.
Get some better bottoms for Gabriel too.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3878515#Comment_3878515
Shadowstep is amazing what are you saying, distortion for everyone is a great tool in some maps IMO
Yeah, Shadowstep is in my opinion the second best boon behind CoH.
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@UndeddJester said:
I feel like these kinds of things are being fixed now, we've had kinda a renaissance where a lot of perks are being made a lot better now.
Build diversity right now on both sides is probably the best its ever been.
I agree, but these restrictions have to go on these weaker perks.
Honestly, I think the invocations would be better if it was on a time stamp of like 1-5 minutes. If that's considered too strong, I'd outright remove the sound it makes when finishing an Invocation.
The others have far too much restrictions on them for zero reason and if those restrictions were taken off, I would use them more.
Additionally, I'd like Technician to get a small buff that if you're doing a generator with another person -- it shouldn't negate the more quiet gen speeds it provides. Even with this buff, I believe Technician would still be niche as many people who are skilled do not use Technician regardless.
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@Yggleif said:
Honestly I just think they need a range increase, 3/5 booms encourage you to loop the killer in the boon area and I don't want to practically show the killer where it is just to use the perks. Even just increasing it to a 30m radius would be great.
I don't think boons are even that bad, at least not as bad as people suggest just situational. CoH is a great team reset perk, shadowstep can be really annoying if you can set it up in a main building, exponential is fantastic at countering killers that choose to slug which we're seeing and increase of recently, dark theory is basically weaker shadowstep where it can get value in a main building but it's otherwise very mediocre. Illumination is.... okay illumination is trash I can't defend that one lol they really need to give it a map wide bond effect and it'd be excellent.
Honestly, I throw Illumination on just to get people to go do gens. I haven't use it in solo-queue, but I did use it a lot when playing with people with less hours.
You'd be surprised how nice an illumination is, I usually toss it with Circle of Healing so people reset and know where gens are. ☠️ Especially because many people I find don't run Deja Vu and when I play with my friends (less than 1k hours), I noticed that randoms stealth around a lot.
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@sinisterstubbs77 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876327#Comment_3876327
Except that body blocking is reportable, as in against BHVR rulesets.
Body blocking is reportable if you're keeping someone trapped. A killer is not a person who can be trapped as they can hit the survivor, down them, and hook them/slug them.
Body blocking is a strategy people use when they're recently unhooked (an easier tunnel target) or when they're trying to prevent the survivor from being tunneled out. Holding a person hostage, like in a corner (something a killer can do) is holding the game hostage.
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@sinisterstubbs77 said:
This is so out of hand. Gen rushing, tea-bagging, body blocking, and they also get to communicate, which according to BHVR isn't in game for a reason, but nothing is done about 3rd party apps. It's unbalanced, no fun, and outright stupid.
I agree that tea-bagging could be considered toxic, I don't like being humped on the ground repeatedly either.
However, the other scenarios aren't toxic to me.
If people body block, hit the person body blocking and believe me, the person blocking will either leave (I'm talking fully healed), an easy down if they continue body blocking, or a recently hooked survivor body blocking from endurance (again an easy down).
Gen rushing isn't toxic, just like being tunneled isn't toxic to me. It's the killer equivalent of tunneling and both are prevalent and strategies that both (killers and survivors) deploy to make the game easier.
Sure, comms are strong and I won't refute that point but the other scenarios are not toxic by any stretch of the imagination. I don't get overly heated when getting tunneled, I just accept that it is what it is and move onto another game. If you find yourself being gen rushed, throw on gen regression - even Corrupt Intervention if necessary.
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@UknownShredder said:
Did the tome for survival and it was chill. Pro tip for everybody is that , stay on the gen and complete that thing and dont run away like a coward as soon as the terror radius start to show, if everyone did that gens will pop like flies. Today for example i had a stab 25 people quest and i met an SWF. I just ran around stabbbing people and all these people was so confused and didnt do anything by the time my quest was done it was still 5 gens up due to surge.
Had they not been running leaving blood everywhere and sat on a gen in a corner somewhere it would be alot harder.Yeah, I agree people do need to stick a gen because sometimes the killer is too fixated on seeing another survivor and more than likely won't interrupt you.
If he/she does interrupt you, just run away from your gen, and hopefully a random takes over. But again, I don't really experience that in my solo-queue games. People normally stick gens, even get off in case of Pain Res.
But ultimately, I run Deja Vu a lot of the time (I hate the gen placements). So, I hardly get into three gen scenarios and it helps the game flow a lot better.
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@TWS001 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3878516#Comment_3878516
Oh yes! I've barely played survivor since. It was just getting silly at that point. Going to try again this evening with the new tome and see what happens!
Yeah, just try taking a break if numerous times you have people dying or things start to go south.
I can't resonate with the people on the forums regarding solo-queue. Even when I was getting tunneled out on RPD, my teammates were still doing gens and taking protection hits for me (obviously I still died, but I didn't mind this loss in particular).
Another game I had a Claudette looping a Doctor for like a minute or two, he gave up started to chase me and we got into about a minute ish type of chase - he was losing gen progress, I go down, Claudette is nearby for a flashlight save, gets it, and Doctor dcs lol. Most of the time my randoms are competent on my end.
They know how to do gens (separate gens or even double up at the end in case of Pain Res), they don't unhook in front of the killer's face, and overall are wonderful for me. 😂
Edit: if anyone wants to see what happened to the Doctor game, here it is.
https://youtu.be/9R_dHxOKUEk?si=nAc-eWsX82I7QwnD
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@Japp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3878530#Comment_3878530
Thanks for the feedback, truly appreciated. What many people seem to fail to understand is that boons are perks that take away slots for perks more poweful/important. Boons are situational, easily countered and the killer can simply destroy it. The more boons you equip the less value you get when the killer step on it.
What do you say about exponential? isn't it too "OP"? allowing survivors to recover from the dying state infinite amount of times? boon + survivor falling on pallet + teammate staying around. But as much value that the boon provides, the killer can simply step on it.I also use boons as well, specifically on my Alan and Elodie builds. I wouldn't consider Exponential overpowered (I actually don't use it due to how situational it is like you've mentioned).
The only reason why I said it would be too OP is due to the fact that killers rely on sound a lot in the game. When you couple that with the numerous additions to the boon, such as muting gen progression and footsteps - it becomes a bit harder and obviously people would be able to shift the boon around.
Imagine me, a person who runs Deja Vu a lot in my builds —with your Shroud Boon, I'd probably combine it with Circle of Healing or Shadowstep, I could keep shifting it from one end of the map to the other where the three gen is and the killer wouldn't be any wiser to recognize what I'm doing.
I agree that obviously boons are easily broken, but it comes to a point where you have to be strategic on where you place them. Usually, I like to do a gen and then place my boon where I popped my gen as a sort of "safe haven", sure the radius could be bigger on boons.
Exponential to me isn't broken or OP because it is too situational. Most killers pick up the survivor, rendering Exponential useless. Sort of like Unbreakable - it's all dependent on what the killer does and from my experience not many killers slug until 2 people are left or they're losing a lot of gen progress, hence why I do not use Exponential (I do use Unbreakable, however).
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@A_T_E said:
Too OP.
Something has to be reduced, either:
- it's effective range
- The reduction in sound to not be "completely suppressed", but instead "reduced by X%"
- The interaction sound suppression entirely scrapped.
Considering 'Boon: Shadow Step' exists, and boon totems take on all boon perks you have, you'd essentially create a ridiculous zone of anti-chase, if you indeed combine the "no run sound", "no pain sound", and "no scratch marks".
Yes, this perk would be broken as it provides too much utility for a given radius.
It's combining Lightfooted, Technician (lol), Iron Will, Quick and Quiet, and Calm Spirit all in a single boon. If they were separated sure, but I don't think tying an Iron Will to a boon would be something I would implement in the game — I even say this as a person who used to run Iron Will in the past. The perk would be too OP as it provides too much to one boon perk.
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@TWS001 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3878483#Comment_3878483
I played 5 games one afternoon a couple of weekends ago when the weather was bad. Would have played way longer as survivor, but all 5 of those games the first person killed themself on hook. I switched to killer.
It isn't that far fetched, believe me!
Did they immediately kill themselves on hook?
Today I haven't got many people killing themselves when I was solo-queuing. Just the two dcs against Singularity on Forgotten Ruins and someone killing themselves against Skull Merchant (lol).
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3878504#Comment_3878504
I get good teammates sometimes. But for me it's like one night I'll get solid and good teammates and most of the matchs are fun.
Then the next day it's the complete opposite. Way worse teammates consistently. It's a day to day rotation like that for me.
Yeah, I haven't been playing much solo-queue since SWFing with some friends but I was duo-queuing yesterday with a friend of mine and it was horrible game after horrible game.
I just ended up taking a break, getting some rest, and then just trying solo-queue and I only got about 2 bad games out of maybe 20 ish. I just usually take a break if I constantly find myself losing over and over or there's no progress going on in games.
I might retest today because I've actually been enjoying my solo-queue games over playing with my friends, but they typically have less hours than me, so obviously I'm getting paired with newer players as well.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3878500#Comment_3878500
On my current account 2600 hours. But ive been playing since 2019 id say I'm roughly around the 6K hour ish area in grand total.
Oh that's wild then. 😭😂
I'm nearing 3k on my end, but I mostly get cross-play players on my end. Might just be hours and not many survivors in queue. A bit strange to see Premonition and Technician.
I did get out of a Hillbilly game with my random Dwight running Spine Chill of all perks, but it might just be people using generic perks because they like them. Randoms can be a little odd with their perk selection and can vary widely on the perks they use I find.
Some games you have people running full meta, other times you have people running full chase, or just a random assortment of perks lol.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I know prestige isn't about skill but a solid chunk of my random teammates in solo are usually prestige 0 or 1. All base default outfits from base free characters. I know this doesn't mean they're bad but it's a huge indicator they're likely new or inexperienced players.
When I see end game perks like Premonition and Technician I just shake my head.
On my end, I get prestige 50+ since going back to solo-queue. I was having rough games yesterday when Freddy came out, but since going back to solo-queue I've been having nice chill games.
I get what you're saying, however. How many hours in the game do you have?
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@bm33 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3878372#Comment_3878372
A 4SWF has a 43.09% survival rate, only 2.75% more than solo. Even at high MMR it's under 50% survival rate. There's no reason to give people playing with friends malus while giving killers a bonus for facing them when the survival rates are under 50%. Punishing half of the player base for playing with their friends when they have under 50% survival rate is how you kill the survivor player base, killers will get long wait times and eventually BHVR filling regular 1v4 lobbies with bots.
I think also people don't recognize that to get to higher MMR and even ranked or comp type of playstyles, they're typically coordinated SWFs. People who actively only play solo-queue are good at the game when they start learning and developing skills - it's why the player base is mostly consisting of veteran players and a mixture of new people.
Why a lot of games are considered "sweat fests", people play optimally the more and more you win.
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@Yggleif said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3878337#Comment_3878337
How do you advocate for something objectively false?
It definitely gets easier with SWF than solo-queue. It's not impossible to escape with solo-queue, but you definitely need people who can carry their weight. They need to know basic information like when to commit to a gen, when to unhook a survivor, how to loop, and gen placements for gens to get done.
All four are objectively easier to communicate when you play in a SWF.
You get pushed off of a gen, you can tell your teammate what gen you're pushed off on.
You need to navigate a rescue? All you need is one person to say, "I got it, don't worry about it."
For looping, you have people saying, "I dropped shack pallet, I dropped cow tree pallet." and that helps people do loops better.
People in solo-queue can be a mixed bag. I started back to playing solo-queue and I got two randoms dcing on Forgotten Ruins against a Singularity....lol.
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@Icaurs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3878300#Comment_3878300
It depends, sometimes yes, other times no. It's very much what I feel in the moment.
Good example.Sometines if the killer is camping I will trade places on hook knowing I won't escape. Other times I will let them die.
There is no rule that says I have to do either. But forcing people to be altruistic is bad design.
I wouldn't even consider it forcing to be altruistic -- if you want your best chance of living, people need to unhook and trade health stages.
If the exit gates are powered, you are free to leave.
If a Trapper/Hag is hooking people in basement and gens are left up, no one expects you to go be a hero and unhook the people in basement.
As you've pointed out, you situationally play in a team oriented way, therefore the game is team-based regardless. Five generators need to be powered and it's easy to do with survivors available to do them.
If I'm stuck in a slugging situation (2v1), I don't go to pick up the survivor as more than likely it's just going to prolong the game and I can get hatch/gate. People wouldn't consider that being a selfish player.
However, people who just sit around and wait for their team to die is what the original person you responded to was talking about.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877953#Comment_3877953
And now they're gonna complain about slugging and get it nerfed, instead of looking at what led to that meta. It's always the same.
I haven't seen many survivors or at least survivor mains talk about gen regression in the few months that I routinely get on the forums.
The only complaints that I've seen are perks like Off The Record, Windows of Opportunity, and Shoulder The Burden.
Behavior decided to nerf gen regression as it typically holds its place in the most used perks and I myself, as someone who has played killer relied on gen regression and even Sloppy Butcher before its inevitable nerf.
Instead of us vsing them in this specific post, recognize that Behavior seems to nerf perks based on usage rate or the incompetence that they have (Calm Spirit and Wake Up nerfs). Behavior nerfs both sides and I haven't seen much complaints for gen related perks - I've even said Pain Resonance is easy to work around by simply letting go before a survivor is hooked. Killers deciding to slug more due to the mori system that Behavior decides to implement, along with killers not wanting to work around second chance related perks. It has nothing to do with gen regression - Pop and Pain Resonance are still strong perks to this day.
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@Icaurs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3878246#Comment_3878246
IIt'S not about how far. Yes I work with others as it is best interest. But I get to decide when my best interest is to give up on everyone else and save myself. Unless people want official rules which was my point.
So, you are not the person that people are talking about?
People are directly talking about people who do not progress the game forward and hide in a corner waiting for people to die.
You said, "I disagree that survivor Is a team based game, but you disagree. Well what are the rules?" >> yet just said, "Yes I work with others as it is best interest." - so, you work in a team based way to get the most out of your survival, no?
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Yeah, with Onryo - it helps because I like to play as Onryo. The usual playstyle that I like to do is grab a tape, get on a gen, and then when the TV turns on to turn it off. Onryo suffers a lot, especially against coordinated teams who do my sort of my playstyle as it hinders her map mobility. 😅
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@tjt85 said:
I don't know about slugging Freddy, just a regular Freddy using his power to TP to gens and to healing Survivors to tunnel has been more than enough to destroy my average teams so far. The timer for putting you back into the dream world ticks down way too fast in my opinion (and he has his power to hurry you along as well). So you spend much time running around interacting with clocks to avoid his TP abiliy before you can really do anything, before you know it there you are back in the dream world again. A pretty oppressive experience that reminds me of the first version of Skull Merchant once she'd locked down a map and the second version of Sadako with her condemned playstyle in terms of strength level. Personally, I'm not convinced he should be able to TP to healing Survivors at all.
So I can see him getting some pretty hefty nerfs in the not too distant future. Because there's no way a basic attack Killer like Freddy will be allowed to be this strong in the game for very long. So enjoy it while you can.
Before anyone hits me with the usual skill issue stuff, I'm just giving my opinion as an average to kinda bad Survivor. I don't think it'll matter if he struggles a bit against better Survivors. So does Legion and Trapper and I don't see those guys being given a Freddy grade buff anytime soon. The main problem with Freddy was that his power was so incredibly boring to use. Now it's actually fun, I don't think it would be too much of a serious issue if he got a few nerfs.
What I find is that you can't really heal near gens (he gets killer instinct) or heal at hooks as much anymore. I think against a competent SWF Freddy isn't as good, but he's a curb stomper against solo-queue.
I've gotten to the point where if I know I'm not going to pop my gen when he gets a hook, it's best to walk away from it in case he teleports to the gen. I think survivors suffer a lot with him because playing against him usually is counterproductive to how most survivors play — sticking to gens, healing after an unhook, etc. He's very high in map mobility, which helps him snowball if Freddy decides to do it.
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@DestroyerBG said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3878202#Comment_3878202
yeah I just wish behaviour cared to fix all the bugs and all the perks and maybe actually play their own game. But nope I guess we won't have that anytime soon. I guess I will just play for fun. Honestly the most fun I am having when playing survivor is doing side objectives because I don't have to get tunneled for it. It is actually relaxing to have something else to do rather than gens
Yeah, I don't play as much unless I have friends online or I'm grinding the battle pass.
Even now, there's a bug where it shows the survivors grayed out like they're in a match lol.
Yes, I don't mind people who use selfish perks - I don't want it to seem like I'm adamantly against them as I enjoy perk variety and I always advocate for the less used perks to get buffs.
However, if their argument is to nerf "rat" playstyles, then they need to center their focus on actual selfish perks and not focus on a perk that benefits the entire team. That is what Wake Up is and like you said, any perk can be selfish. Windows of Opportunity, any exhaustion perk, even Finesse can be considered selfish perks but they provide the user with utility to keep their chases going. The Wake Up nerf is a bad precedent going forward if we're going to nerf perks that hardly get any value or use in DBD. It was already a niche perk, the change still would have been keeping its nicheness as many survivors do NOT bring perks that typically helps others.
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@Icaurs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3878137#Comment_3878137
Well hold on a minute, let's be specific.
I disagree that survivor Is a team based game, but you disagree. Well what are the rules?
If you are hooked and the exit gate is open, do I have to save you? I say no, you say yes right? Well what if they are camping? Or trapper or leatherface? NOED.
What are the rules and where can I find them?
I think it's more so centered around the idea that the game gets easier the more survivors are alive.
Of course, if the exit gate is open - you are free to leave unless the survivor is hooked right next to the gate.
However, I do feel like DBD is a team-based game to a certain extent but I am aware that there are selfish players that play this game. But in order to be in higher MMR, you have to take risks such as unhooking other survivors, doing gens, and progressing the game forward as that is your best chance at survival.
Stealthing in a corner and waiting for your team to die can only get you so far in DBD.
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@buggybug said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877551#Comment_3877551
Must be a you only thing. I never experienced being sandbag or selfish plays from a person using using wake up which again those players I met like maybe 1 time in 5 months+.
If you wanna talk about sandbag, selfish people and rats I shall remind you that is done by people using these perks.
Bond/aftercare/empathetic connection/empathy/ deception/diversion/red herring/urban and fixated. Those are the perks I tend to experience people who hide or sandbag others for their own benefits not wake up users.
The person opening the gate fast while am running injured on death hook has indirectly and directly saved me many times because of their aura reveal.
Yep, I was about to say that if anything Bond would be the perk that is used for sandbagging. How Wake Up is considered sandbagging is wild and I hardly if ever see a survivor stealthing around. It's maybe 1/100 games that I see it as it's objectively a terrible play to wait for your team to die for a chance of getting hatch or getting the door.
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@Icaurs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877832#Comment_3877832
I honestly wonder if we're playing the same game.
Solo Q isn't struggling because people are all waiting for exit gates to use wake up. They are struggling because their teammates can't last 10 seconds in a chase. I don't know how to fix that but nerfing wake up won't fix it.
It's usually the most meta of survivors that are making matches unwinnable because they have no understanding of how to play the game and just know, the perks are strong.
So what if I'm playing for myself, show me where the rules of the game. should we report players who leave a teammate behind to save themselves? I play for myself and if another survivor does as well that's fine. Not this vague sort of, kind of rules but not really.
It doesn't help that jungle gyms and loops are not as good as it once was either.
It's why Lithe is used often or Dramaturgy to gain distance.
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@DestroyerBG said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877676#Comment_3877676
All these survivor perks are balanced in their own right. The problem is when a few people complain that somehow everyone is using a rat build or something although that almost never happens. And honestly who can blame them right now when almost every game is a loss anyways. Or maybe the whole community wants everyone to use 4 anti tunnel second chance perks which is not a good alternative at all because it turns into a sweat fest. Pretty much not fair to try and remove hide and seek from the game as much as they hate it because it is literally part of the game to hide sometimes. Not sure why some people has it in their head that nobody should hide and everyone should play the same way because someone said so
Yeah, I was playing with my friend that I usually duo-que and games were rough as per usual.
1-2 gens left and almost every game was a 1 person out or no one lived in general. That's why I don't understand the weakening of Wake Up to make it worsen the more people die.
I see people dcing on hook (especially those people on death hook and dcing as the entity kills them ☠️), killing themselves on hook, so let's make Wake Up that was a universal perk that could work in all situations to a more weaker SWF perk as a whole. I won't be surprised that the drop rate of the perk goes down or MORE people pair it with Sole-Survivor to get more use out of a perk that was fine before this nerf.
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@DestroyerBG said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877561#Comment_3877561
I still think people deserve to choose how they wanna play. Even if they outright remove the perks that are considered selfish those who wanna play selfishly will just take a key then hide in a locker all game until everyone is dead. Sadly that is the case, You just can't force people out of their playstyle choice. As much as everyone here apparently hates people who just want to play hide and seek. I mean its their opinion but you can't really force others to do what you want.
I'm not saying that people shouldn't be forced to play selfishly, but if their argument is that people will play selfishly - why opt to change the perk that isn't selfish when there's an entirely selfish counterpart that already exists?
How are we painting Wake Up as a rat perk, yet not the other selfish related perks? I don't really mind them because I hardly see selfish perks in my time of playing DBD other than the odd Urban Evasion.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877510#Comment_3877510
If anything, I would like to see keys get some kind of additional effect that makes them more useful throughout the match without addons (either aura reading or something else, doesn't matter).
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877561#Comment_3877561
I assume by 4 perks you mean Left Behind/Sole Survivor/Clairvoyance/Low Profile?
Left Behind + Sole Survivor I agree.
Clairvoyance can be fixed by just removing the hatch aura and replacing it with something else (perhaps reveal auras of other survivors?), maybe also increase the duration to make up for it, but it doesn't need a full rework.
I actually don't think Low Profile is as problematic as the rest as while it can be used for selfish purposes it can also be used to save your team in desperate situations (especially if the killer is trying to slug everyone), since unlike Left Behind/Sole Survivor, the other survivors don't have to be dead for it to activate, just downed or hooked is enough. Occasionally I'll run Low Profile + Unbreakable + a healing perk (either Botany, Desperate Measures, or WGLF, or two of those) and I've had matches where being able to run to survivors without the killer noticing or being able to track me combined with faster healing has saved the game, especially since the no scratchmarks/pools of blood/grunts of pain lasts a full 90 seconds even if you pick someone up. Obviously this won't come into play every game, but nonetheless it is a way to use Low Profile altruistically and there's no other survivor perk that can do everything it does for as long as it does.
And Self-Preservation.
I can see your Low Profile build, but I suppose the only time I've seen it was a stealthing Ada (non-adept) so, I didn't think of slugging builds to pick people up with the perk.
I kinda forget about Clairvoyance, but I don't really see the perk in general. The only time I ever saw it get used was when you could phase through the killer with the window tech lol.
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@Nomade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877494#Comment_3877494
It is not even remotely fair to force the rest of the playerbase to deal with poor balance and constant over buffing and over nerfing of perks and killer powers. Many games have special game balance rules they apply if you work as a premade. Why couldnt it work in DBD too?
Until we get a competitive and casual player base pool, sure.
But regardless, I don't like the fact that you're limiting people to specific perks. If people want to run specific builds, let them run specific builds. What builds/perks do you find overly problematic in a four man SWF?
Edit: even duplicated perks, can you provide me a list?