CautionaryMary
CautionaryMary
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- CautionaryMary
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@HeroLives , I responded to you but I'm gonna give Behavior some leeway because I edited it and got an error lol.
If it doesn't show up, I'll retype what I said as I don't want to make a duplicate comment in the forums. 😂 Always rushing to type and I barely proofread, but if you wanna play I'd be down to play! I play on PS5, but I don't mind Discord. Always nice to play with another girl and I'm quite inclusive and open-minded, I don't mind playing sometime if you wanna exchange information. 😊
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@DestroyerBG said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887719#Comment_3887719
Pretty sure the thing with the vaulting is just a bug and yes I am indeed saying that I have seen the damn guards walking through a wall out of the blue and hitting me. Singularity's problem is how easy it is to spam the cameras until he gets a slipstream which is very fast and as for Xenomorph pretty sure crouching does not counter the tail. Literally all xenomorphs aimg either when you are vaulting and placing a pallet or into your body not above your crouched head so that does not work at all. But yeah you are right you gotta think differently for them but still your thinking does not help. You cant counter singularity powers cause emps take so long to print xenomorph has turrets that you gotta find a strategic place to put them but eh most people got no idea where and even if you do after they are destroyed there is not much that can be done.
No, I have a video of me literally looping Xenomorph - injured, mind you - of me continually crouching under a pallet and avoiding his tail attack - just need precision and timing.
What I like to do against Singularity - let's say, someone is on hook and typically Singularity likes to put cameras down near the hooked survivor so I make sure I always have an EMP on me at all times.
If you don't take the time to get an EMP and actually interact with Singularity's inherent counters, of course you'll have a horrible time. I went against a Singularity last night, knockout slugging Singularity on Coldwind and got a four man out in a duo SWF. Singularity is manageable, but if your mindset is just I'm going to hate going against xyz killer and not learn proper counters, yeah, sure it'll be a rough time for anybody.
I like to put Xenomorph's turrets near pallets and jungle gyms instead of routinely directly on the gen like others do. It allows for ease of looping, Xeno gets slowed down due to the turrets, and even then you need to set up many turrets with Xeno. Again, if you take the time to learn proper counterplay and adapt to the situations in front of you, you will have a more fun time in the game.
Sure, I'm upset I can't crouch tech a Blight, Hillbilly, or Demogorgon but I still fundamentally know how to loop them without depending on it. I found out about the tech months ago and for years, I looped all three without relying on it. It's removed, guess what? I still have the fundamental skills to outplay them because when you play hundreds to thousands of games against these killers and don't DC or give up, you learn a thing or two and they're not hard to deal with even if I myself dislike them. Do I think they're strong? (Wesker, Blight, and Hillbilly)? Yeah. Would I ban them from my matches if I had the option to? No. Would I delete them from the game? No. I just play against them and have the mindset that I know anything I will do is better than dying, giving up, or dcing and I wish MORE people had that mindset instead of kill me, I'm done like ?????
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@HeroLives said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887639#Comment_3887639
Yeah exactly. I was thinking about getting back into swf but not like a sweat squad because like i want to relax and not take this game so seriously, but at least people you can depend on and coordinate with, because solo is just insane right now, alot of the strats the killers are using once you go up you gotta have coordination on some level to have like a chance. like at this point they don't even have to be super good. just like someone i know isn't going to stand in a corner while other people are pre-occupied for various reasons or dc because something didn't go their way or as an f-university to the killer out of spite, sending hates messages to the killer, and shouting over comms. I'm also a single player girly at heart. I totally get that, I love a good story game or a good strategy game. I like multiplayer looter shooters. I wish there were more multiplayer story games though to play with my friends. I think with solo you feel like you have to be okay with accomplishing nothing most of the time, and I can see and totally understand why new player retainability is so hard because if you don't know anyone this game is really difficult to learn, and with no sense of accomplishment(losing mostly) I imagine most people burn out pretty quickly because they aren't getting that dopamine hit.
Oh yeah, for sure! I played solo-queue for pretty much my whole time of playing Dead By Daylight believe it or not. 😂
I actually like solo-queue to a certain extent over a SWF or duo sometimes. It's nice to like, hm - shut your brain off and just focus on the game without having to do xyz callout. You're primarily focused on yourself, yeah I'll do protection hits if someone is on death hook, I'll pressure gens when needed, etc, etc, etc. Solo-queue is a whole vibe for me, so I don't mind it because sometimes I just wanna play without having to talk, lol. I just relax and chill basically, haha.
SWF is nice, I'm a competitive player - but at the same time, I'll laugh and crack jokes at the same time. I do want to learn clock callouts, I have a friend who plays comp who does them but it's just a lot of muscle memory and knowing orientation of maps. 😭 I like outplaying, outsmarting, looping, doing gens, making risky plays (that aren't dumb lol), the whole nine yards. I don't normally get upset or mad with people, I mean - years ago I was on the DBD forums, a certified lurker as you will, and I'd just add random people from the DBD looking for group section or whatever and I used to play with this one guy who would urban evade everywhere and even though I would get frustrated with it now, I just dealt with it with him. ☠️ I never try to tell people how to play, what to do, etc. The only time I offer advice is when someone asks me for it, I don't really backseat game (I found it annoying when I played Fortnite yeaaaars ago and an old guy friend did it to me, so I try not to do it to others!).
But if you want advice, I give it. I play with less experienced people, so I have the patience of a saint for the most part. I take the game seriously but not too seriously!
What type of single player games do you like? Multiple choice related ones?
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@DestroyerBG said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887652#Comment_3887652
Well I don't disconnect when its nurse I simply just hide and don't let her see me which is literally the best thing anyone can do against her. And yeah your friend has the right idea because it is the truth Trickster is fundamentally braindead killer. He is just spam and your friend is not incorrect. Before that buff he received you had to actually put in effort but nah they removed every part involving thinking. As for me I know what killers suck to face because I have faced them and I have played an entire game with them and I damn well know they suck to deal with to the point of annoyance. Xenomorph hitting you on windows and pallets for free, Knight guards going through walls, Trickster stupid knife spamming, Singlarity spamming cameras during chase until he slipstreams you and even if you use a stupid emp he slipstreams you within 5 seconds again anyways cause infinite cameras. Literally the people whom I tell the problems of these killers keep telling me I am dumb. I dunno IT IS LITERALLY THIS these are the problems and why nobody wants to deal with these killers. The killer will lose only if they are a moron who can't aim whatsoever and has no idea how to use the killer.
I suppose, I guess from my experience I just look at the killer I go against and I just change how I play depending on who I'm going against. I don't play the same way that I play versus let's say, a Dracula compared to a Singularity.
I change how I play depending on what it is I'm going against, so some people might not like Singularity (I don't mind him). I actually don't mind any killer in general.
I typically hate Weskers a lot, but I still like being in chase with him. I go against many Hillbillies, still don't like going against him, but I still can generally loop a Hillbilly. I just don't think it takes much skill to ride a survivor into a dead zone but that's just me personally speaking — I still will try my best and loop how I do against anything, but I've been playing since 2020/2021 and to me, Trickster and a Singularity is very easy to loop. Same for the other examples, Xenomorph where I crouch repeatedly to avoid his tail attack, Knight (I watched OhTofu) counter them, so I know how to counter them (a guard is on you, just push your survivor body against a window or a downed pallet (don't take the vault) and you can trick the guard into weird pathing to prevent being hit).
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887662#Comment_3887662
I have exactly zero flashy saves ever 🤣
It's extremely satisfying, but I do not really go for them.
My sensitivity is also incredibly high (100%) on console so it takes a little practice with myself and flashlights.
I don't even really use them in all honesty, especially with how common Lightborne is — but it is satisfying to do anything with the flashlight for sure. 😅 I know some people think flashlighting at a pallet wastes time or distance, but eh I disagree.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887580#Comment_3887580
I too met several good peeps back then, which added to the fun. A few were super good, their skill allowing for things like being able to repeatedly lose the killer and timely flashlight saves. These were by no means simple in pre- dedicated servers days with controllers either. Rocking KYF was really fun, and kept us from slacking on the killer side. Still friends with some of them, but practically none play DBD anymore.
I often ponder why they left and what feels so different now, and I think it's both MMR and the push to efficient everything about the gameplay. Prolly why 2v8 and especially Chaos Shuffle have its appeal as they're more a mess overall.
Yes, I do think MMR has definitely pushed more efficient gameplay. Even I do that myself in my own games, but I still find fun in things that I do.
I don't belittle others and I'm always giving a helping hand to my friends with lower hours. So, I typically am a bit considerate and don't expect everything to go as planned, things happen, misplays occur, it's a game at the end of the day. 😊
I for the love of God cannot get flashbang saves, at best what you'll get from me is just dropping a flashbang when the killer is kicking a pallet. I could practice, but I am not generally a person who typically goes for flashy saves - I can count on one hand the amount of times I've flashlight saved. 😂 Not because I miss, but because I just don't find myself in situations to get them, once I am (not planned at all) I can pull them off but nothing flashbang related. I'm not a Background Player user over here. 😔 I'm more chase oriented and gen efficient than anything else and I'm constantly learning obviously. 😅
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@DestroyerBG said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887583#Comment_3887583
Who can blame them? Nurse is annoying to face but she is at least not a common killer to see as for Trickster he is just not fun to deal with nor fair. He is literally just spam your power until you kill everyone. He does not need to use his brain and he gets free heal states without any thought. Who wants to play against such a trash killer I absolutely understand their pain I would end myself too. I only don't kill myself when I am with friends. That is kinda it but nah alone no way am I dealing with such an annoying killer.
Sounding like my duo partner with the Trickster comment, lol.
Regardless, I don't DC or anything against any killer because I opt to learn and adapt. People say Nurse is hard to loop, depends on the map, skill level of said Nurse, and if the person in question is good at looping. You giving up to a Nurse on Autohaven (Blood Lodge) or Trickster (Badham) one of the most survivor sided maps in the game with so many LOS blockers is just a cop out answer for me. In order to get better at specific killers, you need to face specific killers, and learn to go against them.
I don't like Wesker, Hillbilly, or Blight at times — does this mean I go in with a negative mindset and just outright give up? No, I try my best and my best typically ends up providing good chase times for my teammates to do things.
Me going up to those 3 and just standing still because I didn't get my way via the map, killer, or my chase lasting less than a minute is just petty. Even then, I still enjoy going against them because all three of them all have the same counters and similarities with one another that I learned through facing them and not giving up. You will not get better by simply queuing up, hearing a Nurse shriek, and DC - but it's you at the end of the day, people can eat the DC penalty while I for my logical DCs get 50 second DC penalties and can easily play a game that I enjoy.
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@HeroLives said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887583#Comment_3887583
Same if I get burned out I just take a break and do something else that I enjoy. I read like 30 books and completed like 5 other video games in my last break. Video games are supposed to be fun and not feel like a second job, people should be kind to themself. It's okay to leave feedback on what burns you out about it, but like don't let yourself get to that point.
Oh yeah, I get incredibly burnt out because one of my friends always asks me to play because he gets tired of randoms and sees me as "reliable".
I just take breaks, I'm a single player girl at heart and Dead By Daylight is one of the few multiplayer games that I actively put time into because I'm passionate about the game.
However, I won't lie and say I don't get burnt out over the game. Even though I can say I like to waste the killer's time like the above, it gets exhausting for me to counter specific things — a slugging Blight I had about a month ago killed my energy to play (even though we got a two man out, I was in a full SWF) I still was burnt out over dealing with such a conundrum. I get that people get annoyed and frustrated with survivor, but at the same time, if you feel that way - take a break.
Like you said, read some books, catch up on some other hobbies, come back with a refreshed mindset because bringing others down with you isn't healthy, in my opinion. Once I feel like I'm repeatedly losing, I take a break. I don't feel like playing? I don't play, I go play something else, or invest my energy elsewhere and I come back with a better mindset.
People who play all day, everyday, go into a game, go down first I went down first, let me kill myself on hook or DC is just odd to me. At that point, just get off spreading all that negative energy elsewhere.
Tired of seeing people DC, kill themselves on hook (I had a Claudette not too long ago attempt to kill themselves on hook when she was found, during my chase, because she was hiding in a locker, injured - just comes across as children to me.
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That is simply not true, lol.
I have many, many, many games where I have a competent team that will actively "play" the game. I can name off hand (I have a little tally system that I do for funsies) about the worst randoms I come across - right now oddly enough it's Feng Min and Sable.
However, I have played with other Feng Mins and Sables who play the game fully, don't give up on hook, and play the game because that's what we all queue up to play.
When I get tunneled, happened earlier today with an Unknown as I played Renato. Did I give up? No. I had given her long chases to ensure that when I died, one gen was left remaining.
If people want to kill themselves or DC, they will do it regardless. Only time I DC is when I have another teammate DC because the game is dead at that point. If a killer decides they want to tunnel me, camp me, slug me, or whatever decision some random randomly DCs for, I will make it a purpose to waste that killer's time just like they are doing to me to give my team a fighting chance.
I hardly if ever go out of my way to be like, eh - I'm in basement with a Trapper or Hag (hardly happens but let's say an example) and think, game is over, let me just die and make it absolutely frustrating for my team to be steamrolled — what a selfish mindset.
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@R3b3l54TTV said:
My issue with what's going on is I'm tired of being punished for leaving a game where I'm being tunneled out anyway. Devs are trying to force us to stay in game so the killer can get their rocks off.
Tunneling also doesn't mean directly off hook. Tunneling also looks like leaving chase with 1 to go for another or hunting down the 1 survivor who didn't scream when your scourge hook activated or targeting the 1 survivor afflicted by your power. Especially within the first 3 minutes of the game. It's better I at least DC and leave a bot to help than leave only 3 survivors.
What perks do you normally run?
I'm only asking because typically, at least what I find — killers either tunnel because they found the weakest link (I don't use "second chance perks" as often as I used to as I don't normally get tunneled in my games often) or it's simply you were hooked first, healing at hook, and the killer comes back to rehook the person.
It's why I've gotten into the habit (even did this months ago when I played solo-queue) to just run away from the hook. I actually like to run all the way to someone on a gen, finish the gen with them, and then reset. Healing at hook is something that I do not like to do, but for some reason randoms will get mad if you tell them to move away and reset elsewhere — especially if a mobility killer is in the match.
Sometimes I outright don't even like healing against Hillbilly as he typically always tries to zone you with his main power, he rides you down, and you can find yourself in a dead zone easily — so, I just pressure gens injured and reset at the end. 😊
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@Linkdouken said:
I do agree Circle of Healing is kinda lame now but not the worst perk
Eh, Circle of Healing is fine.
If anything, I would have just enabled self heals for the person who brought the boon (makes sense, they brought the boon) - repeated heals for others and self healing unchecked, no thanks.
I say that as someone who used Circle of Healing too, it was broken. We could argue if it was over-nerfed, sure - but going back to complete self heals? Nope.
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@KatsuhxP said:
We can delete them completely as well, map offerings are only used to get an absolute awful advantage on both sides. I'm okay with getting 8 eyries of crows back to back on random, but it's just annoying to play on it 8 times, because survivors can't just keep their hands of map offerings. (In my case I talk about survivors but I just play killer a lot more, the other way around it's probably the same I assume.)
Of course that's mostly a problem because the maps are just horrible balanced for the most part, but how it is in the moment I don't see a reason for them to exist except suffering. (Of course I don't only mean survivorsided maps, I'd exchange every killersided map anytime for all maps being balanced 50/50. It's overall just better for me to have them all balanced instead of wanting to bang my head on a wall if I see eyrie of crows xD)
Yes, delete them.
For a game that loves to tout its RNG and randomness, just delete them or make them into realm bans.
People would actually use more of them and it would be more of a toss-up on where we go versus a person picks a map going there automatically or a high percentage of going to a place.
It creates an unfair advantage and I hardly use them - I did do map roulette the other day because I was bored of getting the same maps over and over (Coldwind, Midwich, Haddonfield, Autohaven, etc).
Just rework them or make it so if you use a sacrificial ward and a map offering wasn't used, it goes back into your inventory as it wasn't even used to begin with.
With the new map offerings, it makes Sacrificial Ward useless anyways.
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@xGodSendDeath said:
I also would love an option for console only crossplay. It's not lost on me that everytime I go against a survivor that's impossible to catch (perfect pathing always, wins every 50/50, etc.) they're NEVER on console. It's always clearly the name of someone on Steam/Epic or they have a private Steam profile
Same thing for killers. I've had two cheating Nurses the past week who teleport onto you, down you, hook you, and you die.
I don't mind playing with PC players, I think they generally play better than console players (my opinion).
So, I don't mind them but the cheating is insane and how they can simply circumvent it by creating new accounts anyways.
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@Memesis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3886341#Comment_3886341
Then don't que up
It's so surprising to me that people get so burnt out over a game, continue to play it, kill themselves, call the game trash, and continue to do it.
Sorta like a person addicted to a drug, but don't know how to stop or get help.
I get burnt out sometimes, I just go hop on a single player game, and come back when I feel like playing.
It makes me wonder how often people play daily or consistently to get to that point and I say that as someone who plays pretty much daily.
I get burnt out, I'll go play Mass Effect or Fallout 4 and come back itching to play. Today, I had two people kill themselves on hook (brought Badham and Autohaven) because of a Nurse and a Trickster like lol.
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@JPLongstreet said:
Way more chaotic and fun imo.
Surprisingly, I remember being in red ranks and people actually knowing to pressure gens and not be overly altruistic lol.
I kinda wish people in my MMR would be more like that versus let's go get Mary and throw the game basically.
But it was definitely more of a mixed bag than anything.
Same for when I play at times with my friend, we'll get cracked teammates that are very good and then other times I'll get survivors where they don't look behind themselves, I'll take a protection hit, and they just throw the pallet and dome me causing me to die for helping like lol....
I will add that I do like the MMR changes because when I play by MYSELF, I get good teammates and I've made many friends from playing as I get grouped with players with thousands of hours.
When I play with others (less hours than me), it's just a mixed bag. It sucks in a way, either play solo-queue by myself and get great teammates (for the most part) or I duo queue and have a Taurie with no self awareness and throwing a pallet onto my Dwight for trying to do a protection hit, lmfao.
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@Nomade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887353#Comment_3887353
Dude there is so much wrong with your response that is broken beyond repair. I honestly dont have any idea where you are even coming from with some of this and what i do understand i see as you being intentionally obtuse.
@Pit_Bull_Love You are making the very same mistake Firellius is. Slugging does NOT hard remove player agency from the survivors. You have to use the tools you have available to deal with it, yes, but that is the result of HAVING player agency not the lack of player agency. This is totally different from BHVR swooping in and bashing entire strategies to death to the point where you actually cant do them at all.Honestly, once survivors recognize that they can simply hop into a locker or move away from their specific point they're downed at, the meta itself will die.
The only change I would do is put Knock Out on a timer, that's it.
No point in permanent blindness that affects the hardest role in the game — solo-queue.
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The only time I actively see Deliverance is SWF oriented teams, lol.
There's a reason why solo-queue doesn't use it because it doesn't notify teammates to stay and leave the person on the hook.
Same for Wicked, even I like to use that on my Renato along with Babysitter (I can unhook myself in basement and see the killer, so I don't accidentally run into them). It's a niche little combo, but gives me funny moments like, "Hook me in basement!" and laughter when I unhook myself and the killer lost all pressure anyways as I typically stay on the hook last second (before I reach second) or I unhook when I see someone actively trying to get me.
Another reason why perks should be shown so that people see each other's playstyles and can play around it, just like a SWF does. 😊
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887297#Comment_3887297
I've never run Windows either! 😂
I used to when I first started playing I think lol? I have some odd videos of me playing with Windows on my YouTube channel or like if I'm running no exhaustion lol.
I think it's a handicap in some fashion because it dumbs down loops for the average person. What I mean by this is people don't utilize self awareness to use their eyes to spot things. When I loop, I typically take note of pallets that I see. Sometimes I'll be at a loop, loop around the loop, killer kicks the pallet, I run to the new loop (with the pallet) or I run back to a previous loop I've already dropped a pallet at. It's very memorization focused for me, but I see the other side of the argument for solo-queue and new players haha.
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@GlamourousLeviathan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887299#Comment_3887299
I said "play nice" to quote the person I was responding to. I also agree that there is no "playing nice". People should play however they want. If I were to rage against survivors who play in ways I find uninteresting (like 50% of the survivor player base do), I would spend half of my day typing mean comments in the steam page of SWFs lol.
Oh okay, lol - my bad!
I see the whole playing nice comment and it makes me raise my eyebrow at times because most people should be playing to win or just simply having fun.
I'm a bit of a weird survivor because I don't really complain about inherent things like Pain Res or BBQ and Chili (probably complained about it early on years ago) but it's easy to work around when you know it's in play.
People should just play how they want and using the argument, Well I play how I want because such and such play how they want can be said the same exact way backwards.
Slugging and the general shift to it will just make people play like I play. It only hurts people who don't know how to play against it or new players to the game. Either new players will be fed up with it, give up, giving us veterans paradise to know how to counter these strategies or these new players will adapt and do the above like I've mentioned. I only speak on solo-queue many times because that's what I was for many years, I know how it is, I've seen the ups and downs over the years so it doesn't affect me because I have the mindset to adapt and many, many people need to do that instead of blameshifting towards the other side.
You play how you play, it's fine - let's not accuse each other of I play how I play because players play how they play because they can say the same thing about you. Edit: generalized statement, not directed at you but you get my point. 🤗
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@GlamourousLeviathan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3885763#Comment_3885763
Maybe killers keep refusing to play nice because it is the only viable way to play the game? Maybe they should look at why these strategies exist before simply nerfing them like they have been doing every patch?
Tunneling exists because there is a clear incentive structure in the game for tunneling. 4 survivors do gens way quicker than 3 and so on. Therefore, the obvious thing for a killer to do is to get rid of a survivor as quick as possible to get slowdown. Before with old slowdown perks it wasn't as necessary, but now you either tunnel or you lose.
Slugging is more of a recent event, and it is mainly because of how miserable hooking has become. First, whenever you are picking a survivor, you are subject to pallet saves, flashbangs, flashlights, and sabotage. Also, you are wasting time walking to a hook. Now survivors also can unhook other survivors really quickly or do a trade if the other is close to death, not to mention that in the endgame they can always get a free save since BHVR removed hook grabs. Not only that, but survivors have gotten really insane unhooking perks, like OTR (which gives you god mode after unhooked) DS (lesser god mode after unhook) and Resurgence (free heal after unhook). Before you could justify hooking since the best killer perks (Pop Goes the Weasel and Pain Resonance) activated on hook, but since they have been thrashed, they are not really worth it the downsides of hooking.
And if you think about it, slugging is extremely unnatural and inefficient, since survivors take twice as long to die on the ground than to die on hook, so you are probably doing more than 3 chases per survivor before killing them. Just look at 2v8's old editions, where even though survivors didn't have basekit Unbreakable, killers hardly ever slugged since hooking was quicker, you didn't have to deal with sabo and flashbangs and survivors didn't gain OTR and DS. Just make hooking less of a painful chore or give killers some benefit in doing so.
Finally for camping, it doesn't need a change whatsoever. If you are dying to a camping killer, it is 100% a skill issue. If the killer camps from the get go, just rush gens, and if the killer didn't camp at the start, and decided to do so because you decided to ignore the hooked survivor and do gens, you can always trade or help each other with bodyblocks.
These strategies don't need nerfs because they are already weak as they are. What killers need are buffs to discourage them from those playstyles.
Just don't play nice? I don't know, lol. I've seen ad-hominem about survivors giving killers some survivor rulebook but I don't really care about how a killer plays, as I know general workarounds for it.
You can play however you want to play, you want to run full regression - go ahead. You want to run full aura reading, go ahead. You want to do a nice little combo between the two, go ahead. You want to do a sneaky niche stealth build, for sure, go ahead.
However the same needs to be said for survivor instead of complaining about second chance perks or whatever flavor of the month it is for the other side.
If a killer wants to try to slug me with Knock Out, I immediately start crawling and not stay in the same place, so the killer doesn't sit on my body and babysit me all game.
I notice Knock Out on another survivor? Don't get mad when I outplay you by going into a locker injured to prevent my teammates from being blind.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887282#Comment_3887282
I wonder how many up-votes I've handed out just because I found it just funny? 🤔
Same… I read their posts, chuckle, upvote, and move on - nothing too serious lol.
I remember someone, I can't remember who during a heated exchange (they kept using ad-hominem and appeal to authority). — claiming, "Thank God, you're not a DBD developer." or whatever innane comment and that same person accused me of having bot accounts, throwaways, or whatever just because I got upvotes during the discussion.
People don't recognize the power of acknowledging both sides — obviously, I have my biases as I play more survivor but I try to be more nuanced and balanced and I don't think too much on the killer side is OP other than slugging against solo-queue.
I don't care for Pain Resonance, Pop, Lethal, BBQ and Chili, or whatever other meta perks killers use because I can work around them as I see them all the time. On the flip side, people cannot accuse me of some meta survivor or someone who utilizes Windows of Opportunity as I don't use it. I see the value in it as a new player and solo-queue person, but I like to have more build variety and I have memorized loop tiles and can loop due to simply having eyes -- I don't need Windows of Opportunity because I'm constantly looking for pallets as I'm in a chase and flicking my camera around, I don't need WOO to prolong my chase.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887228#Comment_3887228
Players often underestimate the value of playing both roles at least to a competent level. Not only does it make you better at the side you prefer playing, but it greatly increases the understanding of what others have to deal with, automatically increasing empathy.
For sure, 100%.
If you asked me what killer I don't like going against the most, it would be Wesker.
However, I still like going against Wesker because you can outloop them anyways. I don't DC against any killer or load in and groan normally when I see a killer because I know how to counter specific killers, as killers typically overlap with one another regarding counters.
When you play a killer as much as you do (I main Onryo and Trapper, as I've mentioned months ago - I haven't played killer as much as survivor as I find it more rewarding to play survivor but that's my opinion). You start to pick up specific things that you find strong against your mains that you play as.
Same thing for watching how survivors play as killer versus watching how killers play when you play survivor. There's definitely valuable information when you play as either side. Before I played killer, I would always try to stick the gen (let's say someone is hooked nearby) and I get pushed off of it, I'll continually try to pressure it when I could simply go somewhere else and do another gen.
You go play killer? You see the same behavior over and over, people will literally die to get a gen done, it's quite comedic.
As a result, I changed how I played as survivor from playing killer. Someone is hooked near me, I get off the gen, walk away from it, stop it from regressing, and unhook the survivor. (obviously depends on the gen progression, sometimes I'll stay and commit if it's almost popping) - but if people played more of both sides, they'd see the grievances with both - people don't do that and think the other side is easier when they don't put the time in to see how it is on the killer or survivor side.
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The Surrender option is a horrendous change and is a net-buff towards slugging.
I don't think survivors need basekit Unbreakable, but put a timer on Knock Out.
It does nothing against SWF, while it punishes the weakest role in the game solo-queue.
Simple easy fixes that Behavior for some odd reason will overlook and think allowing a survivor to surrender. It just allows people to slug all survivors and get out of the game much quicker. It's a short sighted change, as per usual with Behavior — they don't acknowledge why people choose to "go next".
Fix the loops, fix the gen spawns, fix the hook distance — why is everything so congested when you play survivor? You literally feel claustrophobic because everything is close together, it's stupid.
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@doobiedo said:
This game is killer sided enough as it is as every non-biased player knows, so why is Bhvr. nerfing survivor even more by forcing solo survivors to spawn together so we can be wiped out by a Billy with lethal at the start of the match. In addition they want to make it impossible to hide at endgame and all, basically just give the killer free kills, and they want to try and punish players who refuse to be forced to stay in every 12 year old killer main's sado fantasy.
I understand that Phase 2 will supposedly add more survivor sided changes, but wouldn't it make more sense to mix it up rather than being like "well we're going to completely destroy gameplay for one side, but its okay we'll make it more even a few months later." Good luck keeping survivors even playing until then.
As a more general question, why is everyone on the forums getting so excited about this? It's like you guys forget this is Bhvr. we're talking about. Bhvr. must have read how so many people were posting about how dbd needs some sort of health initiative, and they decided to just announce one, knowing that no one will pay attention to what's actually in it. They were exactly right, they have been showered with praise by the unwashed masses, and anyone with reservations, even slight ones, is being shouted down.
Everything we know about Bhvr's history, as well as what changes have already been described, shows clearly that this will likely be a disaster. Even if Bhvr. eventually gets the game somewhere closer to right, going by the kinds of changes they've announced so far it's going to be a long time till then. So go right ahead thinking Bhvr. has suddenly figured it all out, I'll just stay cynical so I'm not disappointed once again.
The problem with Behavior that I find is that they do bandaid fixes like others have stated.
They don't think of the repercussions of said changes until the inevitable PTB that they release that highlights the issues with these bandaid fixes.
I still genuinely cannot forget that they thought it was a good idea to have cooperative healing take the same time as a single survivor healing you, thinking it was a good change.
Behavior, as much as I love the game — is very shortsighted and do not alleviate the problems that solo-queue has. Many of my posts talk about it as they are the primary consumer of DBD, yet is completely miserable for others.
Do I think they need basekit comms? No.
Do I think they need basekit perks, like Bond or Kindred? No.
However, there are many, many, many QOL updates that they could bring to the game and buff specific killers to compensate. They could also make maps better, loops in general better, as many loops are predrop pallet, killer takes three steps, and hit you regardless. It's gotten so routine that I can precisely tell you when I get hit as the loops in general are short unless you're on specific maps that have God tier pallets (Badham, Garden of Joy, Gas Heaven, The Game, etc).
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@Nomade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887230#Comment_3887230
Upvotes truely do not matter, there are more survivors and so survivor favored comments are more likely to recieve more upvotes. Also this is not a popularity contest. Some people might hate me for my opinions and I honestly could not care less if I tried.
When I or someone else makes a valid point and another person says somthing in response and they get massivly upvoted while I only get a couple of upvotes, I just see it for what it is. There are more survivor players and so they will bandwagon more, even if the argument is kind of absurd. Ive seen people say some really crazy things and still get upvotes.Oh yeah, I'm sure there are many survivor mains who lurk the forums. That's what I was like at the beginning of my account's lifespan, but I decided to start posting.
The forums definitely are more killed sided in general, but there are rare takes that @Pulsar , @Firellius , @Aven_Fallen , and the prior @OnryosTapeRentals that I see, read, and upvote because I normally agree with them.
Others on the forums, I won't name any names - can be a bit more biased and hyperbolic towards specific things that they say. When I see the above posters, I'm like - let me go see what they say, agree, upvote, and whatnot. I've tagged Aven and spoke to Aven before, especially regarding the showing survivor perks to solo-queue.
Point is, these people have a reputation that is more nuanced and balanced - hence the reason why these people normally get upvotes.
Edit: rare takes as in rare takes on these forums, not that they have rare takes in general. ☠️
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887085#Comment_3887085
Survivors holding M1 on Gens + Go for marathon with Sprint Burst/Lithe
Who said repairing or Sprint Burst is skill full? Certainly not me lol
Go for marathon is wild. 😂
What do you want the survivor to do? See the killer approach at a distance, stand at the gen, point at it, look up, and say, dear killer, don't tunnel me and go down? Like, lol. Of course a survivor seeing a killer will move and properly set themselves up to loop, do you want survivors to load in and die?? Not directed at @OnryosTapeRentals , I always enjoy reading your posts. 😊
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3886309#Comment_3886309
Do you bot your comments or something? I know, it sounds like a petty accusation, but I'm genuinely curious what you think. It just feels like no matter how far down your comment is, there's always ~10 likes. Maybe I'm looking too far into it.
My lord, why do people think others have the time to make separate accounts or bot accounts to get upvotes on a comment?
Do people on these forums genuinely care about getting upvotes lol? I got happy when I reached 500, but the accusations of bot upvote farming is weird.
I go on here, read a comment fully, upvote, or respond. It's really not a hassle to think that others simply agree, upvote, and move on lmao.
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@OmegaXII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3885763#Comment_3885763
Funny how you found Slug/Tunnel takes no skill when Killer actually has to outplay Survivors in chase to do that.
At the same time, Survivors holding M1 on Gens + Go for marathon with Sprint Burst/Lithe when Killer comes are so incredibly ‘skillful’ that they should win about every matches, especially against M1 Killers.
I wouldn't say there isn't any skill attached to tunneling and slugging, I employ the same tactics as well. Hence, why I typically have a more nuanced opinion of it, tunneling and slugging has specific things to buy the killer time.
However, there are smart ways to employ it, while there are not so smart ways to employ it.
It doesn't take much skill if you're tunneling off rip and focusing on the weakest link to get rid of. Personally, I don't do it unless the survivors are playing in a very specific way.
Bringing multiple toolboxes and the only gen regression I had at the time was Corrupt Intervention on Legion? I slugged and did pressure, easily 4ked on The Game.
I had a game on Decimated Borgo against a SWF that brought hatch offerings and tried to flashlight save many times, I slugged the third, closed hatch, and killed the fourth with the team reporting me, lol (it was a Twitch user).
It is very easy to 4k, but tunneling and slugging are not primary tactics I use as sometimes focusing out people is not the best play, you need to focus on your gens and make sure that you spread that around.
If you're mindlessly tunneling off hook, gens are flying, that's on the killer for not properly defending their gens.
I don't need to tunnel, camp, or slug when I play killer — simply playing and just having general knowledge of playing survivor (I play survivor a lot, which helps me as a killer), map awareness, and choice of perks can easily hand you a 3k/4k.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3886326#Comment_3886326
Comp games have rules in place to make the game fairer. They also are, you know, played against other comp players.
If the average Killer tried to tunnel a comp Survivor team "smartly" they'd still get obliterated.
Even then, they just pressure gens and take the 3 man out when necessary. They play much differently compared to regular public players as they will actively pressure gens, take hits for one another due to precise clock callouts, consistently have long chases from these accurate callouts, and can communicate with one another about add-ons or perks that the killer runs.
This pales in comparison to regular solo-queue players and even duos. People in public matches play much more altruistic or even selfish in some situations.
Comp players on the other hand are much more efficient from the inherent advantages of being a comp player.
Comparing the two is redundant as comp DBD is different from regular DBD.
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@StalkingYou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3886398#Comment_3886398
"10 seconds added to gens" every gen perk is nerfed and survivors are given basekit features + brand new and unbelievably strong new perks to prevent the killer from doing their objective
its funny to mention hook timer because that actually incentivizes spreading hooks even less… its literally just less pressure for hooking someone. its ironic that it hurts that play style more than it does camping.
"people play how they want to play and no incentives will change that play style" this is not exactly groundbreaking… both sides do it and will bring the most busted ######### imaginable and play in the most efficient way to win. which is why im not against a severe tunnel nerf as long as they make spreading hooks actually good, and it seems like they have no intention to do that.
"people just want easy games" is such a lazy way to put it. people tunnel because the other option, "playing nice" sucks and always has sucked as a strategy. a better way would be to say "people don't want to get 10 hooks and only get a 2k after sweating their ass off to get to that point, they want it even less when the game itself rewards the killer for kills over hooks"Do you think basekit borrowed time was a positive change or a negative change?
Do you think the hook proximity anti-camp meter was a positive or negative change?
How about the HUD display where solo-queue survivors can finally coordinate on the level of SWF to see what other survivors are doing - game breaking or no?
Do you think the mori changes where killers could mori off rip was a horrible change, yes or no?
All of these changes were addressed due to certain playstyles. It wasn't "fun" being immediately unhooked and moried. Same for the fact that survivors would be unhooked and immediately back on the hook if they had no exhaustion or second chance perks to counter these tactics that killers had.
All of the perks that people typically point out are perks that are ONLY strong in SWF, yet keep having fingers pointed at them. Same thing you hear every time any survivor perk gets released - "perk is too strong, needs to be nerfed." we saw that with Reassurance (barely used), Counterforce (barely used), Shoulder The Burden (barely used) yawn
They increased the hook timer to compensate for the gen timer being added, if you'd like we can go back to the regular hook timer with 80 second gens. You want to talk about killer nerfs this, killer nerfs that, but patch 6.1.0 was an inherent buff towards killers, along with the gutting of maps and fog removal but again - SWF perks are too strong, when SWF isn't even the majority player base anyways.
Notice how I mention how both sides do the things they do to win. People genrush because it's the easiest way to escape, people tunnel and slug because it's the easiest way to 4k. Let's not kid ourselves into thinking it's specifically just survivor buffs that placate killer playstyles. Both effectively do it to one another and doing this whole, Behavior nerfs killer, poor victim mentality for Killer is a pretty weird take in all honesty. Both do what they need to secure a "win" as the game is competitive by nature due to the nerfs and buffs BOTH sides get.
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@buggybug said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3886749#Comment_3886749
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3886741#Comment_3886741
Oh that is what it is, its pretty stupid if your already in the middle of dispelling it he should not be able to teleport to it, same with onryu when your already interscting eith the tvs.
I see, yeah it's a bit weird to get interrupted but I can see the logic now that you mentioned Onryo.
I'm a bit divided on it given that the killer is obviously using their power (Onryo for the TV and The Unknown for their teleportation via the clone) versus the fact that it would be a little jarring for the killer to be prevented from using the clone/TV because a survivor is interacting with it.
Hm, I don't think it's as much of an issue given that both are not considered high-tier killers to begin with. They both struggle when going against SWF and only Onryo I would argue is a curb stomper in solo-queue as The Unknown struggles... But could be my perspective given that I can loop an Unknown easily lol.
Edit: I can loop an Onryo and I know how to counter her generally ahem Onryo player here, but I find solo-queue doesn't know how to deal with being condemned, they don't turn off TVs near them, or know how to properly play against her causing her to steamroll pub games.
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@Darkage said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3886584#Comment_3886584
And it doesn't even matter if it defeats the point of deadline, because deadline is already detrimental anyway.
Yeah, as a console player I hope that, as well as the report thing you mentioned, we get text chat too. Not because I'm a toxic terry, but in the rare good survivor game or funny killer game (where we still play the game normally), It really sucks to not say anything or see anything they say. Though I guess it wouldn't be great to be able to see those wannabe 'juicers' calling me slurs or whatever else.
Oh yeah, no - I personally think Deadline is terrible I'm just saying that Behavior might look at the luck feedback and see that it overrides with Deadline lol.
Luck should be tied to how many skill checks occur because obviously you're lucky to get progression on gens and healing, it makes sense and would actually help spread what "luck" is rather than it just being tied to hooks.
Yes, putting more information on why you're reporting is much better. I don't know if PC people need to attach a video, but I've had a game I remember years ago with randoms that I had where I was in basement.
One of the survivors came to grab me, but she beat me to the staircase along with the other two survivors and held me hostage in the game for quite a bit of time and it would have been nice to simply type in the chat report system like PC players do. Instead console players have to functionally use the drop down menu, record the game, upload it to Behavior's website or whatever, and it's much more seamless on PC.
@MrT1412 , I don't know - it's a niche build and only works in SWF. A lot of the discussions on strong builds get lost on me as I don't normally play four man SWF and I think Slippery Meat (if not in a full stack with luck offerings) is kinda bad.
I had a Nea run it with two luck based offerings, I'm assuming her and her duo ran the luck stuff and she literally put herself in deathhook due to it. It's not strong unless 4 man SWF and such a niche build idea in a full stack that it's not really an issue, at least to me but hey, what do I know?
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@buggybug said:
If they simply remove alerting him when your dispelling his clones then it would not be so bad same with ghost face too, its stupid thst your punished for doing the so call counter to them.
Like take plague for example, you can cleanse and even though it gives a queue, she cannot tell exactly where gou are unless they use that add on that show aura of who clenansed
Does The Unknown get alerted when dispelling their clones? I haven't played as them, but usually I can dispel easily.
I do find it a little dumb that The Unknown can teleport if you're mid animation dispelling but I overlook it because I love playing against them regardless, lol.
Probably the only killer I don't really get upset around when I get hit (latency related) because they're very fun to play against, in my opinion.
@KatsuhxP , lol I don't even get destroyed by her normally. I just like going against her because when you're on a map with a lot of objects - it's hard for a Nurse to keep up with you. She's easier for me to loop compared to a Blight (I can still loop Blight, just trickier). She's just a lot of fun to play against due to the fact that she teleports, swings and a miss her attack, out of breath, and you can still continue running. Her lunge can be a little questionable at times, but I still enjoy going against her even if she's an S tier killer.
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@StalkingYou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3886342#Comment_3886342
my bias of what exactly? if ruin and noed were on the same strength as dead hard i wouldnt have said that. but they never were and you have yet to address that
I think comparing the two playstyles is a bit naive given that they serve completely different purposes.
I didn't play during old ruin (the one where you had to hit great skill checks to avoid passive slowdown) - you have to admit that it was goofy watching people gen tap to prevent the active slowdown ruin provided.
If you're talking about ruin/undying, it was incredibly strong. Even if Ruin is weaker now, I'd argue that it needs a buff if anything - it was still a strong combination that many killers utilized.
Same for the survivor side with Dead Hard. I probably was one of the few survivors who didn't use it (I got tired of seeing exhausted on the ground) when I timely hit it. Even Dead Hard now (in my opinion) is a weaker Dramaturgy. It's the only exhaustion perk that doesn't effectively work like an exhaustion perk only giving you three times. It's a gutted version of how it was and its nerf buffed tunneling as no one needs to wait out a Dead Hard anymore.
Old Dead Hard, sure - it was overused and it deserved the nerf that it got but what it is now is a weak perk that people are better off using other exhaustion perks for, but that's my opinion — I might be biased as a Sprint Burst user, but I'd argue Sprint Burst takes more skill than Dead Hard. 😁
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@HolyDarky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3886323#Comment_3886323
@Coffeecrashing made a good point: survivors can still have more control than killers: dropping Eyrie + Badham or Autohaven + McMillen gives them a 40% chance to get their preferred maps that gives them an advantage while killers will have a 20% chance no matter what.
I can only say it again: I agree and wish the map offerings would decrease the chances for this realm instead of increasing it. For me, map offerings are the most annoying part in this game. I can understand that some players don't wanna play on specific maps but not that some need to send the other side to the most miserable one or with the best advantage.
But once the PTB with this change goes live, I hope our feedback will convince the devs to make additional changes to map offerings
I think with the changes it should be a simple flat 20% and no stackability in that case.
Defeats the purpose for four survivors to stack (let's say a Badham) and it automatically goes to Badham.
Realistically, I would prefer them to outright remove map offerings but they're not going to do that - so a flat 20% and no more would be key. They did this with the fog offerings (I think where they used to stack) - they can do the same for map offerings.
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@KatsuhxP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/438822/the-unknown-is-way-too-strong
Pretty easy:
his projectile is pretty slow, he needs to hit 3 times in optimal case (so eventually more), he needs prediction and knowledge about the way his shot bounces. I'd say from all projectile killers he's probably in the middle in terms of skill required to play against him.
Most rounds agains people that know how to play against him make you wish you just played huntress, at least me because I played her a lot of more she's stronger for me than him xD
Yes, even then it's very easy to get rid of the orb on your head rightfully so.
But then again, I love going against them. 😂 I always have great chases with them but I am aware that not many people have chase potential or recognize and analyze the game like I do. A true DBD nerd 🥸 Huntress is by far a stronger killer than The Unknown.
The Unknown is a bit finicky when it comes to the ball, it can spit and land directly on the survivor doing absolutely nothing. It can land and injure the survivor, sure - but I don't know, they're not an issue and doesn't deserve any nerfs in my opinion.
Very fun killer to go up against, but my opinions are weird because I even like going up against Nurse lmao. ☠️
Edit: honestly, think it's because I prefer mind game potential. These killers are very easy to mindgame, so they're my favorites to go against. I always do good chases against Nurse and The Unknown because of line of sight blockers, so I can't resonate that The Unknown is strong.
I don't think any killer is strong theoretically other than Hillbilly or Blight, but even then I can still loop them (Blight is a little harder to maneuver compared to Hillbilly looping wise).
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@Darkage said:
I think this would be a perfect opportunity to completely rework the luck mechanic, instead of messing around with the whole "what if they have a luck unhook build" thing.
Luck only affects unhooks, but this is an opening to just rework it into a broader effect, like chests and skill checks, or whatever else would be fitting.
Yes. 100% agree - I talked about that the other day. They could definitely make the event of skill checks occur luck based. It defeats the purpose of Deadline, but regardless they need to rework luck and even the thumbs up when you end the trial.
No point of having it, either remove it or outright make it so when you thumbs up (you can make it sorta like Overwatch where you can only thumbs up randoms) and give a BP bonus. The game honestly is archaic when it comes to these features and I'm surprised Behavior hasn't done anything when it comes to "giving props".
Also, with the introduction of M&K to console, hopefully we get a better report system that allows us to type rather than give the generic reason on why we are reporting people too.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3886400#Comment_3886400
Being as I'm a Myers main, I'm curious how this would work with Myers. I often get stalk early on fast and eliminate 1 player with tombstone before the 1st gen is complete. Would that be considered go next even if the survivor wasn't deliberately trying to go next? Or would it penalise players for intentionally feeding me stalk to get mori asap as some players do?
No, as the survivor is dying at your end it wouldn't count.
The differentiation is the fact that the survivor is intentionally killing themselves on hook.
If someone is feeding a Myers stalk, you could say that is throwing the game sure — at the same rate, it's the survivor's fault for not using Line of Sight blockers or hopping in a locker in case of Tombstone.
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@MarbleThrone said:
Another thing that can be a cause for concern is: what if you 'tactically go next'. Here's what I mean:
We've all been in this situation many times already: two survivors have been sacrificed, the third is on hook and the fourth is somewhere on the map. The hooked survivor intentionally lets go so hatch spawns in quicker, giving the last Survivor standing a chance of escape.
Will the go next prevention mechanic factor this in? I can imagine that it's completely disabled once at least one Survivor has been eliminated.
But how will this affect the 'stick it out for rewards' mechanic? Will it give you less points because you let go on hook, even though you did so in order to help your teammate?The only indicator I could think of to distinguish it is when the hook killing starts.
Right off the bat and you're immediately hooked with three other survivors available? 100% noticeable.
I think for situations of 1v2, it wouldn't be classified as it as the "go next" mindset normally occurs on the survivor's first hook stage early on in the game.
At least, that's how I read the patch notes. It wouldn't make sense to penalize a player for killing themselves when there's no way to achieve getting the gens done.
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@Pulsar said:
Curious how even in the most oppressive meta for Killers, Overbrine Eruption, tunneling and camping was still through the roof.
Funny how players will always use the strongest, most efficient strategy that requires the least amount of effort.
Exactly, at first it was gen progress. 10 seconds are added, still a problem with gens.
Behavior compensates the change by adding more seconds to hook timer, people complain about that change.
Point period, people play how they want to play and no incentives will change the playstyle.
Behavior could allow survivors to collect parts around the map, people would still camp and tunnel to their hearts content as the playstyle would be even more buffed with less people on gens.
People just want easy games and will take the easiest route to get it, whether killer or survivor.
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@StalkingYou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3886250#Comment_3886250
it doesn't really matter how many games anyone gets it back to back. no game should be unwinnable and if we keep nerfing camping/tunneling AND spreading hooks then that's what's going to happen. they're not THAT rare btw, people say things like "you only get them once in 500 games" when its more like 1 in 100 or 1 in 75.
yeah, killers can run meta perks but their perks have been nerfed and as of right now the strength of survivor greatly outshines the strength of killer in terms of perks.
I think we're on the same side, youre just misunderstanding what im saying. it's not an issue when anyone runs meta perks, as both sides can do it. the issue arises when we keep beating one side with a club for trying to play efficiently while we dont do the same for the other, or dont give that one side something to make up for it. it gets even worse because, as I said above, camping and tunneling is completely necessary in some games and without it you'll just lose no matter what.
I see, my post is more-so directed at challenging the notion of slugging being utilized due to second chance perks and gen regression nerfs. If that was the case, it would have been a thing after the Eruption nerf. It would have been a thing after the Pain Resonance and Pop nerf, yet it started directly when the Mori was introduced.
I'm not inherently against the Mori decision, but it obviously pushes people to slug more for the 4k as the killer gets the satisfaction of seeing a mori. I've went against killers who will slug everyone, wait 'til everyone bleeds out, and sits on a person to get the grand finale of a played out mori that we've seen hundreds of times by now.
1 in 100 or 1 in 75 is quite low for someone to repeatedly see meta survivors. In my games, I see many survivors running many different builds. I hardly if ever see a full 2-man or 3-man (I solo queue and duo queue now) and I don't see the meta that you see when I play survivor. That's why I mentioned unless you're going against 4-man SWFs all the time, it's not an issue. You win back to back games, your MMR goes up, and you will face more SWF teams as that's where they are located on the MMR totem pole.
The point that I stress is that we win some games and we lose some games.
I have games where my teammates die and DC and I switch to a somewhat more meta build to compensate it. I would argue that killer perks and playstyles are far more dominant than a survivor as a killer primarily dictates how a game progresses (if they're skilled). They can choose to slug off rip, they can choose to tunnel and camp at will.
The worst thing a survivor has is what? Gen progression by splitting up? Anti-tunnel that can be negated by simply hitting them and removing it unless DS is involved? Flashlight saves that can be negated with Lightborn anyways? (I don't think Lightborn is a problem unlike other survivors). Hook saves that are negated because hooks spawn relatively close to one another and the killer can 360 a few steps to hook anyways?
If you're going to bring up Reassurance and Shoulder the Burden, most of these perks are the most strong in SWF. They do nothing for solo-queue due to the lack of coordination.
As I've said on the forums, I don't use Reassurance because I've had a random solo-queue survivor attempt to suicide when I did it to them. It does nothing for solo-queue, only strong in SWF. What perks are much stronger compared to meta killer perks (conversation needs to include killer as certain killers dominate, especially against solo-queue.)
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The Unknown is not a strong killer by any means.
As long as you're not looping predictably (to prevent getting hit by his ping-pong ball of a power) - you defeat the purpose of The Unknown. Even in situations where there's nothing to use and they pull their head to use their power - you can run into them and abuse the 1st person POV perspective.
Just don't loop close to corners, go to areas where there's line of sight blockers, avoid his teleportations (you can bait them into using it and gaining distance by going the opposite way), and dispel his teleportations to prevent map mobility.
They're very easy to deal with and actually one of my favorite killers to go against because of the mindgame potential.
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@StalkingYou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3886119#Comment_3886119
ok, please enlighten me, as well as the best players in the world (who are also forced to tunnel/camp in situations like this, guess its a skill issue from them) how to win against a cracked-out-of-their-mind 4 man who runs quadruple meta perks on everyone and sends me to gas heaven by spreading hooks after every gen regression perk has been nerfed and im playing freddy or dredge.
rhetorical question: dont waste your time because its impossible. you are literally not winning that by playing "nice" and thinking you can win that by doing so is just delusion.How many games are you getting this consistently back to back to back?
Unless, you're going against 4 man SWF every single time you queue up.
The same thing can be said about killers running meta perks, just like survivors run meta perks.
Killers run gen regression as it is completely difficult 4king with no gen regression unless you're a top tier S-tier killer.
Survivors run looping builds to prolong their chase to buy time
Survivors run anti-tunnel builds as a game becomes completely hard to navigate in a 1v3.
Why is it only an issue when survivors run full meta (I don't run meta), but not an issue when the same is said for killer?
Point being, people will run perks and builds because guess what? They make the game easier to play, they're inherent advantages for people to use and if a killer OR survivor wants to run meta or off-meta, it's fine.
Regardless, people like to point out gen regression and second chance perks but why is this an issue all of a sudden? Why the large uptick in slugging after the Mori introduction? hmmm methinks it's because it's easier to bypass the hook stages. Nothing to do with survivor gameplay as it would have been more popular after the 6.1.0 changes years ago.
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@Foxtrick said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3886062#Comment_3886062
One solution I can think of is dedicated servers to improve the ping between all the players in the match.
The other would be improving their servers and qol on connectivity. There are plenty of games that do a good job with problems like these.
The reason these problems exist in the first place is due to the fact that the game relies heavily on the killer's ping, favoring the killer in most circumstances. If they can find a way to alleviate killer's internet connection and basically substitute games from Behavior's own servers, these latency issues would diminish significantly
I think improving servers and making new servers would remedy this issue.
I found out recently that Canadian gamers don't even have their own server, as I played against a Canadian and had high ping during the game even though I'm NA East (Florida lol). Ironic given that Behavior is a Canadian developer, yet no Canadian servers for them.
They need to invest more in their servers to allow better ping relative to the team and killer.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3885802#Comment_3885802
They could put that in the Loading Screen. This might still lead to DCs while loading, but I dont think it would be much. OR at the very least it should be in the game when pressing "Esc", where you see the names and Ping of the players.
This would just be something which bridges the gap between Solo and SWF a bit. People might know that I have Resurgence and dont lead all the healing progress go to waste against Hemorrhage. Or I know that someone else has Deliverance and dont run across the Map just for them unhooking themselves when I am halfway there.
I think the best solution is to put it where you pause the game when the trial starts.
This way solo-queue gets on-demand information on what someone is running. Sure, you'll have people pause and probably scroll over to read perks, but it would help game knowledge for people to learn non-meta perks and we already do that in Chaos Shuffle.
You put it in the loading screen, people can DC during the loading screen.
You put it in the lobby, people will lobby dodge due to the perks.
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@Rudjohns said:
"anti-slugging surrender option"
great, slugging will be even stronger now, why bother hooking if the survivor can just surrender on the ground?
That's what I was saying to my friends.
If you have a killer that brings Knock Out against solo-queue — lets say a Scratched Mirror Myers on an indoor map or any other killer for the most part.
It just pushes the slugging narrative as you just bypass the hooking stage. You have four survivors on the ground and can easily 4k by using Knock Out. If these changes go through, they need to put it on a timer if anything.
Last night, I had a Bubba who slugged everyone on Coldwind and in this situation, it would just fuel people to run anti-slugging or push for slugging as they don't have to wait out the four minute timer delay into another game. Definitely wasn't thought through, but I'm not surprised since the Mori changes.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3885159#Comment_3885159
Must be a different copy of DBD you obtain where survivors are slightly organized.
If you find this version of DbD, throw a copy my way please 🙏
I've had enough of the disaster that is solo queue these days.
Tell me about it. I've been duo-queuing and the amounts of killing themselves on hook, dcing, and general giving up that I see cannot fool me that this game is entirely more killer sided.
I honestly feel like the gen spawns contribute to that. The amount of times I've loaded into a game and I've seen one side of the map have five gens and no matter of using Deja Vu can fix the problem.
It feels like Dead By Daylight just has so many issues that it becomes a habit for people to instead give up and DC as you can easily queue into another game just as fast (as long as you're not consistently doing it too much).
It feels like you're doing household chores when playing survivor a lot of the time.
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@bm33 said:
I miss night time Coldwind, I wish they'd bring it back. As Trapper I would very much love all daytime maps to be night time maps.
Agreed, I even mentioned that bringing back the fog would be a net-buff for Trap based killers as well.
Could go an extra step further and add grassy areas to maps, like Backwater and Haddonfield too. Add a little greenery to maps as they typically look a little dead too.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I use items all the time so I like the idea. Perks like Overwhelming Presence would counter it hard (though nobody ever uses that perk). Or that Belmont perk which upgrades your held item could be interesting and make for some good synergy.
Yeah, interestingly enough when I played with my friends with less than 1k hours — I'd see the perk. ☠️ I didn't even know it existed because I barely see it in my usual games (3k+ hours lol).
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@Leon_Loves_Cheryl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3881825#Comment_3881825
I have been saying this for YEARS. Buffing solo queue to the level of SWF then buffing killer to compensate is the ideal direction for the game in my opinion.
The game has three major issues right now: Gen regression is too weak, hooking is survivor-favored, and Killers aren't balanced around high-end SWF.
If the game was balanced around SWF, it would be a lot better imo. They've SLOWLY been doing this by giving the Survivor HUD more information (who's doing gens, who's being chased, etc.) but they need to go a step further and implement a ping system and text chat system (with the ability to block/mute people mid-game.)
When solo survivor is successfully at the same power level as SWF, we can then buff Killer to compensate. Now SWF isn't that much of a gamebreaking advantage anymore and both sides are fun to play. You guys have been treading this path already with the Survivor HUD additions, but you're moving too slowly. Add more information and tools for Survivors, maybe a ping system and chat system and buff killer to compensate.
With that out of the way, we still have the issue of slugging. The problem is, hooking is severely disincentivized due to activating EXTREMELY powerful Survivor perks. Gen slowdown is heavily nerfed (which also disincentivizes hooking for some perks such as Pain Res and Pop), both of which are contributing to heavy slugging which is boring for Survivors.
We need to incentivize hooks, especially multiple so that both sides have time to play (no one likes dying on the first hook.) There are multiple ways to do this, such as having a global 7% gen regression on any hook (just an example.) Another issue is that picking up a survivor leaves the killer extremely vulnerable to Flashbangs which have no counterplay at the moment (looking away doesn't help if the survivor drops it too close, so it's entirely in their favor.) You can't just incentivize hooking, you ALSO need to incentivize picking up.
The game is better than it used to be but BHVR's shortsightedness is blaring at an all-time right now. The game needs massive help because high MMR is really frustrating for Killer and Survivor due to the game's balance. Gen regression is too weak, hooking is survivor-favored, and Killers aren't balanced around high-end SWF.
Personally, I don't think gen regression isn't as weak as other posters believe. I can still 4k easily with Onryo as I bring two aura reading and two gen regression (Pop and Pain Res). I don't disagree that solo-queue needs to be buffed but I've been saying for a while now that with all the changes they've made in 6.1.0, it has heavily nerfed survivors, along with adding more unsafe pallets into the game.
Look at Coldwind and the Ormond map variants as pure examples of this. I don't disagree that they needed to speed up breaking things, like gens and pallets. However, with this addition of speed and the removal of more safe pallets and ruining jungle gyms - it has pushed more killers to simply walk around the pallet (always a shorter side) and hit the survivor rendering the pallet useless. They added too much in 6.1.0 and the game - IN MY OPINION, has suffered too much.
Pain Resonance and Pop are still the most used perks even with small marginal percentage decreases and I typically still use them and I'm fine in the game. The problem primarily lies in loops in general and the lack of information solo-queue gets.
I have no idea why they thought it was a bright idea to nerf the distance a survivor gets.
I have no idea why they thought it was a good idea to nerf jungle gyms and add more unsafe pallets.
It gets frustrating for me to outplay a killer, they take three steps around, and I get hit regardless. The other changes are more QOL for killer, so I will not refute it as they're fine to me. The other changes that they've made in the game, however, has affected people generally and made chases not as long as they used to.
When chases are not as long, killer can typically steamroll, which I think is many people's grievances now.