Cable2486
Cable2486
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@ZaKzan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1109850#Comment_1109850
So you admit these perk builds are meme builds and not tailored specifically to win consistently. You also admit these perk builds are not good counters. My point is proven.
Rank is meaningless and the fact that you latch onto that so tightly in your statements just hows how little experience you have with this game.
I never said they were all meme builds, nor did I say they were bad. You're the only one whining about consistency. You asked for counters claiming none existed. I provided examples and you found reason to continue railing and trying to insult me. At this point, it's clear you're just trying to find a way to 'win' your feeble argument and prove yourself somehow correct.
Not only are you not correct, but you e been proven wrong. You said no counters existed. They do. They work in the right hands, and with the right Killers. Something I've found in my 2 and a half years of regularly playing this game. And sweetie, I hate to break it to you, but rank is one of the only things that defined difference in what perks became meta or not. That would be because, despite your talk of 'consistantly winning', there isn't a clear definition of a win for a killer. Benchmarks are either Kill numbers per match or Rank increase. It's only been recently that Rank is changing, so your 'consistant' doesn't fly. The reason that is, is because 4k is nice and helps to pip, but it's not the only means to raise or maintain Rank, which was the name of the game until the ranks go away. Then you're consistency is still bunk because the new skill metrics will measure play based on ALL the emblems (assuming you know what those are, yes?).
That's why your arguments mean squat. You wanted counters, then complained because they don't meet your personal standards, or because your limited pov was solely focused on individual perks rather than builds, which has continued to drive your commentary.
Your iron maiden comment, for example. Sure, alone it's not great and easy to avoid, but add BBQ and it's a whole different ballpark. You chose to ignore that and zeroed in on the perk itself. It's what you've been doing this whole time. That three perk combo against toolboxes and other items? Yeah, in the the hands a a Wraith or Doctor, who don't need detection perks at all times, work beautifully, yet you chose to ignore my comments about powers and add-ons. Your so-called 'hide behind a gen to avoid BBQ' doesn't work, either. That's because it's not feasible to predict what direction the killer will go to hook a Survivor easily. It's no less situational then my suggestions. And this insistence that Dead Hard provides invulnerability shows just how little experience YOU have, because I can assure you it DOES NOT do anything of the like.
There's an enormous difference between being a META player and being a GOOD player. Good players don't need perks to win. They just make it a lot easier to deal with certain situations. The reason Killer perks don't directly seem to counter Survivor perks is because nthe killer also has a power with add-ons that grants further functionality. This is something you may want to think about before you make yourself sound sillier than you have already.
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@Oberon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1106508#Comment_1106508
Are you really suggesting that killers slot 3/4 perks to counter one specific situation?
Countering for toolboxes sacrifices gen slowdown and pressure perks.
Countering for sabo sacrifices gen slowdown and pressure perks.
And that Discordance/Mind Breaker/Surge combo sacrifices pressure for single gen/target focus. You lose gens across the map by focusing on a single target because news flash: even if Discordance pops, you can only chase one survivor at a time!
There need to be additional objectives. Or gens need to be locked behind an objective. Before a survivor can start repairing a gen, they must perform such and such interaction.
Anything to keep killers from losing two gens in the first 90 seconds of the game on Mother's Dwelling. Something to balance the playing field.
No, I simply provided what he asked. I never said they were GOOD counters, simply counters that exist. As it stands, I play meme builds like this all the time, but I also play serious builds. Nothing wrong with a Doc with Overwhelming and Franklin's, since BBQ and Nurses are supplimental at best, especially with his blast ability now.
Wraith has two add-ons that make detection perks mostly unnecessary, so why not bring more item-counter perks?
Spirit needs one add-on and sloppy butcher to move incredibly fast and track/cut off Survivors.
Plague with new ruin and tinkerer is fun, and running Surveillance works with or without tinkerer.
Point being, builds extend beyond perks. If you can't plan your perks around your powers and add-ons, and rely only on your perks to counter Survivors, you're going to fail more often then not.
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@ZaKzan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1106894#Comment_1106894
no killer runs the perks you've mentioned because they are trash. You do not run perks that are active for only a certain part of the game. It's just not the way the game plays out.
You're still not offering viable counters to all the meta perks I've mentioned. Speed does not help against 3 seconds of invulnerability.
Your set ups don't work in high level play. They just don't. There is no way I can make this point any clearer. No one is using the perks you're using. They are way too weak. They are way too circumstantial.
Not only are you so far away from conventional perk layouts and killer theory, you are even way far away from the unconventional theories. There is absolutely no way you play this game at a high enough level because you think the perks you've mentioned are actually viable.
I implore you, find a top tier killer that uses the combination of perks you've mentioned. Not even the more creative killer players and unconventional killer players use these perks.
There's a player trope that describes you almost perfectly, and that's a Timmy
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/timmy-johnny-and-spike-2013-12-03
You do not run perks that will give you the most consistent winrate, you run perks that will give you the best enjoyment when you are able to use them. It doesn't matter how consistent they are, only that when they work, they work in big ways. Take, for example, Iron Maiden, you use iron maiden, survivor gets into locker after you hook your first victim. Survivor now knows you have iron maiden and will not enter into a locker again, one quarter of your perks is now effectively useless. At the very most, if all survivors do it, you get the location of each of the 4 survivors once in the entire game. 9/10 games this does nothing, but in 1/10 games you are able to snowball the game due to this. You are fine with this outcome.
I find it quite comical that you say I'm limiting myself on perks, that I play a certain way, and then you tell me to run 3 perks alone just to counter toolboxes.
LMFAO. You're actually thinking you're still correct? Oh honey, sit down and save you statistics for someone else. Not only do the builds I use work, but they work because I'm not reliant on my perks to carry me. And that's your disconnect. You play the meta because you think it's the only way to win. And newsflash darling: there's no '3 seconds of invulnerability' to Dead Hard. Sorry to spoil it, but you have to come at me with more than angry theory. Seriously, do you actually play this game, or just read the wiki and hope you sound intelligent?
You're so one dimensional in your views you think the build and combinations I listed are o lyent to counter one item, perk, or instance. In fact, you're having an issue with my comments clear you're over-reliance on your perks tells me you can't play without them. Yes, they help shape gameplay, but they aren't the ONLY aspect. Sure BBQ and Iron Maiden only work a couple times. But throw in Nurses calling and use Wraith's Aura perks, and suddenly, it doesn't matter that much. Is it the most efficient? Probably not. Is it fun? Absolutely. You asked for counters, I provided them. You don't like them? Meh.
The problem we're also facing is that you seem to be laboring under the delusion that those are my main perks. They aren't. But you only want to see the meta because you're obsessed with 'consistant' wins. I win enough to put me at rank red ranks. I play the way I find amusing. But I also play nearly every Killer, so I'm more than well aware of what it takes to mix a power, add-ons, and perks to maximize they're effectiveness. But it's also way I win.
Survivors and Killers that stick to the meta are easy to screw with, and don't expect outside of meta plays. As I said in my last response, not all of these strategies are the most effective, nor do they always work. But you clearly glossed over that part. In fact, you'd prefer to call names and act superior because you're not getting your way. I doubt you play in even the purple ranks, and you most DEFINITELY can't play without perks to save you from the big, mean ole' Survivors.
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@ZaKzan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1106508#Comment_1106508
Dead hard can only be countered when you are chasing a brain dead survivor. I know the majority of survivors are brain dead, but that's not where the strength in dead hard lies. It gives survivors about 3 seconds of invulnerability, which will allow them to get to the next pallet chain where they can minimally loop a killer for at least 2-3 minutes. When a survivor does this, the only option is to abandon the chase.
Franklin's + Overwhelming Presence + Unnerving are not going to fix the issue of the toolbox, because I have just dedicated 3 perks for toolboxes, nothing else. Generally a killer needs a detection perk, a looping perk, a slowdown perk, and a utility or tech perk. You're not going to win games at high rank killer without a clear strategy and a broad range of perks. You can specialize with your utility perk which can make you better at looping or detecting or slowing down the game, that's it.
Iron Maiden is also a useless perk for every killer but maybe huntress to get hatchets quicker.
What game are you playing that these perks you're firing off are even semi viable at even an intermediate level? nevermind top level.
Why do you think dedicating so many perk slots to skills which are only useful in certain situations?
Killer is not like survivor where you can just close your eyes and pick 4 random perks and climb your way to rank one.
Also I would like you to explain how addons counter survivor perks. The only thing in the game that exists now that counters dead hard is a trapper's trap. There is nothing else that gets through the invulnerability. What addon counters adrenaline? Sprint burst? Balanced landing? Unbreakable? Decisive Strike? Borrowed Time?
You really are trying so very hard to prove a losing argument. I'm not even sure it's even an argument at this point. It's obvious you have a skewed opinion of perks, as well as lack the ability to create a build thoughtfully. You only see individual perks, and overlook synergy. I already answered every question you tried to pose. If you aren't creative enough, or skilled enough to think about why the suggestions I've made are capable, viable strategies, then I pity you.
Dead hard is easy to trick. It's the most viable counter plan. This 3 second invulnerable period you're so scared of isn't anything worse than the DS period, or BT. It's called patience. People like you that rely soley on base perk ability without actually using their heads are usually the ones that get mad about changes like these, then have to look up FAQs to figure out how to deal.
Also, it's interesting that you chose to deliberately ignore that I said POWERS & ADD-ONS. Not JUST add-ons. And you clearly don't understand half of your own argument. Remember your first response when you said being outside of the terror radius is a counter for IF? Yeah, about that. A counter is an active, thoughtful, and skillfull return or turnabout of an action made against you. It while it can be passive, it's an action taken. Not just blind luck.
Example: Survivor hides from my BBQ in a locker. I also take Iron Maiden so that, on exiting, they are exposed for 15 seconds and shown to me for 4 seconds. That's called synergy.
Example 2: Survivor uses SB/DH/Lithe/BL against a Wraith/Spirit/Nurse/Billy: Predict that obvious meta perk and bring speed boost add-ons that allow your power to move faster and trap them by heading them off.
Huntress/Plague/Deathslinger: use projectiles to force them into/away from areas/paths that are more to your advantage. Bring add-ons that allow for faster, more frequent use of powers.
These are called counter plays. Note that counter plays aren't perfect, nor do they always resolve successfully. You, on the other hand, clearly only know how to play the meta. I would advise experimentation.
And FYI, I'm a Rank 3 Wraith/Plague main, so I know a thing or two about these set-ups because I run them, myself. No, they aren't always perfect. But they do work. I'm sorry that you're limiting yourself so severely that you think a killer NEEDS certain perks. What a killer NEEDS is to be able to think on their feet and use predictive logic. The rest is pretty simple.
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@ZaKzan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1106033#Comment_1106033
Survivor perks cannot be effectively countered by the killer, and they are strong enough to give survivors enough distance to run to the nearest strong tile / chain.
Most killer perks can be countered by survivors. If a killer is running enduring and spirit fury you will cut the amount of effective perks he has in half just by throwing pallets down early, and it has been shown that you do not even need to loop pallets to run a killer for 5 gens, just run up to a pallet, throw it early, then run to the next one.
BBQ is easily countered by hiding behind gens and in lockers
Infectious fright is countered by just being out of terror radius when the killer downs someone
Any hex is countered by doing hex totems.
STBFL relies on survivors being inefficient with gens since it takes some effort to build stacks
PWYF same thing as STBFL
Corrupt is countered by preparing for noed or just hiding or even stacking on 2 gens with 2 surv each.
So your best argument is to present single perks and semi-effective counters? And drop pallets early? You act as if a killer is required to break them. As to Survivor perks:
Dead hard, for example, can be countered simply by faking a Survivor out or bringing Unrelenting to decrease swing time.
Franklin's + Overwhelming Presence + Unnerving should fix your toolbox issues nicely
Hiding from BBQ in a locker? Cool. Iron Maiden solves that nicely.
Sabotage issues, swarming rescuers, and hook blockers? Mad grit + Agitation + Iron Grasp, or Hangman's Trick
Deathslingers new hex plus Haunted ground + any other hex perk make life easier than ever.
Exhaustion perks? Gen rushing? Cool as well. Discordance + Mindbreaker + Surge
I can do this all day. The point is, a killers perks aren't what counters a Survivors perks: it's their powers + add-ons. Perks just offer fine tuning and alter play style.
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@ZaKzan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1105822#Comment_1105822
that's because nothing stacks up against adrenaline, borrowed time, unbreakable, iron will, dead hard, sprint burst, decisive strike, and balanced landing.
killer perks are not strong for a very simple fact that the devs leave out in their explanations: killer perks can mostly be countered. All of the survivor perks I just laid out are not able to be countered by the killer. Before you mention it, dead hard is not countered in the situations where it is useful, in that where buying an extra 3 seconds means an extra 3 minutes in looping with pallet and window chains, if you want a thought experiment imagine a killer perk where every 40 seconds the killer can triple their lunge distance. Decisive is not necessarily countered by slugging, as the slug can recover and move to a more favorable position and it's completely broken by the survivor just running into a locker.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1105897#Comment_1105897
The sabo change is certainly a buff to survivors, it's certainly not a nerf to them. It effectively reduces the maximum distance a killer has to get a caught survivor on a hook.
Killer perks are so weak and starved of power that running Franklin's, Unnerving, or Distressing with 3 other perks alone will actually push you into purple ranks. Killer perks are so easily countered by survivors and they have such a little impact on the game that removing one for a 'tech' perk will seriously hamstring about 95% of the high rank killer playerbase. I don't think people have an appreciation for how weak the non freddy non billy non spirit and non ghost face killers are vs the strongest survivors in the game.
I would love to think you're kidding with that last comment, but it seems unlikely. Killer perks aren't weak, they simply require more skill to employ then most of the Survivors perks, which are almost passive to employ, being mostly just extensions of actions already being regularly done.
Any killer, sand a few can be devastating, given proper play and build. It's just about playing to strength and strategy. Obviously there is going to be differences in skill between individual players, as well as preference in play styles, but it's not really as big an issue as you're making it.
As to sabotage, while it's true it will speed things up, it also allows killers to slug more openly, and let's ambushers open up more opportunities to do what they do.
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@ZaKzan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1103783#Comment_1103783
Breaking walls will definitely take time to do, we don't know how much time and we don't know how many walls. Like I said, this is only affecting one map out of many, so the change here is not clearly killer sided. The devs have pointed out that the breakable walls may make survivors less safe, so survivors are definitely in their mind even with this new mechanic.
Like I said, item retention will encourage players to bring rarer items in, since there is less fear of losing those items. It will also encourage them to use those items more often. I also said this was a slight buff to survivors, not a large one.
The fact that sabotaging a hook is clearly easier in this new update gives survivors more of a chance to sabotage a hook before a killer gets to it. I do not understand what you're talking about here, it is going to increase their efficiency.
Also like I said, toolbox changes aren't going to be a clear nerf. It all depends on the numbers. Considering they are making toolboxes into mini spare parts, there is definitely room for these to be abused and exploited for the survivors' favor.
The three killers that got buffed needed the buffs, and 3/18 killers being changed is hardly an overall buff for killers.
While you are correct that they are testing it, the plainly stated they were testing how it worked on a new map BEFORE they rolled it out to other maps, not IF they rolled it out. The devil's in the details. Speaking of, when was the last time in a high ranked game that you saw someone sabotaging hooks in a dedicated role? It doesn't happen often. If it does, it means taking someone away from gens more often. Combined with the new killers perks, it could make for some very effective anti-genrush tactics.
As to the encouragement of more powerful items, it should also encourage the use of Franklin's Demise, so it's not really something to worry about. Once charges are gone, it's useless. It means losing items to a chest item, or not bringing items in favor of chests. In either scenario, Franklin's will be more relied upon. Unnerving and Distressing are also commonly played and should help as well.
The toolbox changes should also reduce some issues, but synergy with certain perks(looking at you, Prove Thyself) will still be a problem, so it's not really much of a nerf, but time will tell.
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@Demogordon_Ramsay said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1103134#Comment_1103134
So I guess completely deleting a set of mechanics and play styles that are already incredibly weak and underused in exchange for having *literally no power power in a chase* is good game design for a very strong Killer with a lot of pressure?
“Simply put, it's not the Survivors that should determine the flow of the matches and their play styles, but the Killers. As a Survivor, it's your job to find ways to effectively work within the situation given to you to complete your objectives as dictated by the Killer you're playing against.”
The thing is, the best strategy of what to do against Plague is so obvious it hurts: Don’t cleanse. Because if you don’t cleanse, she doesn’t have a power. She has no chase, no mobility, just tracking that nobody cares about because looping is superior to stealth anyway. Countering Plague is extremely easy to understand and to do, and yet despite this, she’s still annoying no matter what.
Also, thinking new Ruin is good on a Killer with literally no mobility KEKW
You really are viewing things from a very limited pov, aren't you? As it stands, stealth isn't weak at all. It simply requires skill. As does the Plague. To say she has no power in a chase is laughable at best. She can steer with her vomit, which can be made far more viable with her various speed add-ons, plus she's one of the fastest Killers in the mix. You seem to be laboring under the impression that 'mobility' is synonymous with having a power like Nurse or Billy, which tells me all I need to know about you perceptions and misconceptions here.
Plague is quite strong in a chase, especially with the right perks. Spirit Fury works wonders, especially paired with Zanshin Tactics and Cruel Limits/Nemesis. Infectious Fright is good for locating groups and pairs well with Blood echo and I'm all ears. New Ruin works well with Surveillance and Huntress' Lullaby. So right there are several builds with open space for another perk like BBQ or Nurses Calling, to name some of the meta. You very seriously underestimate playing pallet/vault mind games and playing Loopers at their own game.
If you're expecting Plague to be a fast game, then you're going to have a hard time. She's best as dividing and drawing out the game. Getting to start with a fountain corrupted can mean an early hook, and with an Ivory or Ebony Mori, it's going to give an enormous potential for early control. I would advise looking at builds more solidly, as you seem to have a narrow, one dimensional view of things.
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@Demogordon_Ramsay said:
Now, before you grab your pitchforks, I'm not calling Plague overpowered. I don't think anyone in their right mind would ever call Plague anything other than low-to-mid C tier on her absolute best days. But being a weak Killer does not excuse the fact that Plague is, frankly, one of the worst power designs in the entire game—and this upcoming change puts a major highlight on that, I feel.
Here's the issue I have with Plague. If she vomits on you and you get sick, it doesn't really do much. Surviving while sick is hardly different from surviving while normally injured, with the exception that you can neither heal nor be stealthy—
And there's my problem. Being sick all but removes two mechanics from the game. You literally CANNOT heal by conventional means against a Plague, and stealth is just about deleted because no matter what you do, you will be constantly broadcasting your location to her if you try to sneak around her, and you leave a trail of infected objects if you try to sneak away from her. Urban Evasion, Iron Will, Quick and Quiet, Fixated, literally any healing Perk in the entire game—these are all Perks that are, no exaggeration, completely useless against the Plague.
Of course, the meta is looping and you can easily loop while injured. But there are plenty of players who DON'T like the meta. They like to be stealthy. They like to heal themselves and others. They like to explore different avenues of play that aren't just "me run around pallet, me rush gen with adrenaline". But if they just so happen to go against a Plague? Too bad, buckaroo, your build and playstyle literally do not exist anymore.
This is what makes Plague so unfun to go against for me, and is why I think she's badly designed. She encourages the boring, overpowered Survivor meta because two of the most popular off-meta playstyles are completely disabled against her. It's not strong at all, because they're off-meta playstyles, but she just... she just disables them. Completely disables them.
And if you want it back? If you want the opportunity to heal? If you want to be stealthy? Well, then you have to give her one of the strongest, most braindead anti-loop abilities in the entire game, and even then she can take away all of your stealth and healing again with the mere press of the M2 button in your general direction.
I think that this is a terrible set of decisions. You either sacrifice your off-meta build in exchange for making Plague the most M1 Killer in the entire game, or you take back your off-meta build for a fleeting instance in exchange for temporarily making her one of the strongest chasers in the entire game. The imbalance between choosing to be sick or choosing to give Plague her Corrupt Purge is so poorly weighted, and neither option is anything short of infuriatingly annoying. You should never cleanse against a Plague because she is a pathetic, sobbing mess of a Killer without Corrupt Purge, but then you have two entire game mechanics literally deleted from the game for the rest of the match. It's no fun for anyone involved.
And then to top it all off, with the upcoming change that gives Plague a basekit pool already corrupted, you don't even get to make that choice until she's already expunged her Corrupt Purge. No strategy involved on your part. No good to come out of your actions. You either keep your healing and stealth and give Plague her bastardized lovechild of Huntress and Bubba, or you get rid of your healing and stealth... and give Plague her bastardized lovechild of Huntress and Bubba. Every single choice is a terrible one.
I think this new change is a perfect example of Plague's terrible game design. Survivors were given a choice of what to do against her, and the choice was always terribly obvious because one option made Plague insanely strong while the other made her insanely weak. But in exchange for making her weak, genrushing without healing and hugging loops all game goes from the M.E.T.A., the most effective tactic available to the O.E.T.A., the only effective tactic available. Now, with this upcoming change, until Plague uses her Corrupt, that choice is made for them. Whether or not they choose to turn the M.E.T.A. into the O.E.T.A., they still have to deal with that braindead chase power, even if only once in the match—and with the right build (pronounced "Infectious Fright"), that one time could be all the Plague needs.
In short: I think the Plague is terribly designed and in dire need of a rework, if not to her power, then to the effects of the different types of vomit, and this new change exemplifies that. I think being sick should be significantly more of a threat than just removing two non-meta playstyles from the game, and Corrupt shouldn't be nearly as strong as it is. The two should be more in-line with each other in terms of how powerful they are so that the decision of whether or not to cleanse isn't so painfully and utterly obvious as it is right now, but at the same time, the Plague shouldn't be given the opportunity to almost break the game for people who don't like to sweat the meta with a mere press of the M2 button. Being sick should do something like directly affect your ability to loop with something like slower vaulting speed or making it more difficult to move in a straight line while running, or hamper your ability to do the objective with substantially difficult skill checks or something of the sort. Something the meta actually gives one about. Meanwhile, Corrupt shouldn't be nearly as powerful and cheesy as it is. The range and amount of the vomit should be cut back to a point where it gives Plague an edge in loops rather than an iron fist. She should be able to punish people for messing up loops with it, not able to punish people for being in her line-of-sight.
Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.
So if I'm understanding you correctly, because she does what she's designed to do, which is herd Survivors and eliminate their ability to effectively hide from her or work cooperatively (to an extent), you see her as terribly designed? Then, if her power isn't causing damage, it's useless? First, with the current set of perks available to Killers, especially new ruin, she's one nasty mama jama (or can be in the right hands). Second, if you think she's a weak killer, you've clearly not gone against a skilled Main. Either way, you're entitled to your opinions, even if they aren't well founded.
Sorry to be so blunt, but so few actually are able to utilize her to her fullest extent because they want a simple, easy to use power that doesn't take much strategy to work with. Survivors want to be able to play however they want with all killers, regardless of their power, and that's the whole reason WHY they made her the way they did. It was a purposeful intent to force such a decision on Survivors as another means of putting control into the Killers hands, which is the way it should be.
Simply put, it's not the Survivors that should determine the flow of the matches and their play styles, but the Killers. As a Survivor, it's your job to find ways to effectively work within the situation given to you to complete your objectives as dictated by the Killer you're playing against. Conversely, the Killer is given different characters with kits, perks, and build opportunities to maximize what they can against a team with unknown counter play variants that may or may not be effective in the current trial. That's the WHOLE POINT. That Adiris suppresses certain play styles was a conscious decision, and a good one. Just because you don't like it, doesn't make it a terrible design. It does however make you sound very entitled.
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@Its_Vigo_Here said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1102262#Comment_1102262
These are fundamentally different killers that you're comparing. What made the legion fun what's the fast movement, it changes the way that you play! Plus he's all about getting first hits as opposed to only having to hit once. Not to mention his split pressure cannot be beat. Legion has problems but the plague does not fix any of them because they're different killers with different goals in mind.
That's not true at all. At their base, both are 'Herding' Killers. Their power is ment to allow them to control Survivors in terms of direction and break apart groupings. While the Corrupt form of her power is fun to use, it's only ment to further her pressure and score hits in a chase. It's not a one hit down either, by any means, until it's counter has applied the broken status, which takes a bit to build up. That's also why they're both very fast as well. They use speed and their unique powers to pressure Survivors and force them into unfavorable situations which make hunting them easier.
Currently, adding the ability to guarantee the use of her full power without the need for survivors to cleanse should give her a much needed boost, but will ultimately also vary how she's used, as well. It sounds to me like you lack the creative mentality to use her not only as intended, but that you'd prefer her power to be more easily felt with by Survivors, which would limit her DRASTICALLY.
I think your arguments as a Survivor are silly, as it sounds like you don't like the entire theme of her ability, which is to spread a literal debilitating plague. As a Killer, you don't like when you has full power, because it's too useful, yet when it's just her base, you seem to think it not useful enough. Forgive my saying so, but at this point, it's clear the Plague isn't the issue at hand, but your inability utilize her powers properly or creatively to your own benefit, as well as deal with them as a survivor.
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@ClickyClicky said:
@Purr Bad comparison.
Take Rocket league for example. It bas a casual mode, it offers a forfeit option, but most importantly it isn’t absolutely riddled with bugs. There isn’t any toxic mechanics that can be abused either. You don’t get a Ghostface in Rocket League that sits there tbagging you and mori spamming for 4 minutes before finally doing the mori and ending the game. You don’t get random crashes, stuck in walls, trees or scenery.
It’s an apples to oranges comparison.
Maybe you should try playing on console. I don't see to recall anyone ever having any of those issue, beyond bad connection crashes during bad weather. Maybe a camera glitch or two, and some sound wonkiness.
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@AsePlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/129404/killers-are-more-toxic-now-with-the-dc-penalty
Seems to be that way on both ends.
Survivors whipping out the Haddonfield and commodius toolboxes
Killers whipping out the OP addons and Mori's
Welcome to the great DBD Wars of 2020
Otherwise known as," How the game was ment to be played!"
Seriously, though, Killers have had to stow these items and offerings because Survivors DC and waste them the minute they figure out they have them. Meanwhile, Killers Lobby dodge any suspicious groups or groups with items they may not like, forcing Survivors to do the same. With the new penalty, it should hopefully give some of that hostage situation a break and let people play the way they want too, instead of one side or the other dictating the other.
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1088796#Comment_1088796
Yeah thats exactly what tunnelers are. “Intelligent hunters”.
Even though most are bad at the game and rely on NOED to mop up the remaining survivors.
Lol. I see we're just angrily generalizing, now. I never said everyone who tunnels is smart, or even good at it. But not all of who tunnel run NOED, nor do they tunnel all the time. It's a strategy to be used when appropriate, not a rule to live by. There's a big difference.
But folks like you seem to miss that particular detail, and rail on anyone who tunnels, regardless of them doing so constantly, or just as needed.
Understand that tunnelers and campers do these things more often then they really should or is smart because the Devs have made it far too easy Survivors to do everything. The game should have a degree of difficulty, particularly for Survivors, since there are four of you in each trail, and despite being trapped in a realm where natural laws don't really apply regularly, you're still just normal, unremarkable human beings. Why should you have any super special abilities that put you on par with a powerful, often supernatural killer?
The answer is that you shouldn't, and yet, because the Survivor base has practically taken this game hostage with their extensive and often irrational list of complaints, the Devs have to meet in the middle on things they really shouldn't be, and it's driven the game into a corner, making the Killers live too difficult without having to find loopholes and cheeses from time to time.
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@EvilJoshy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1089679#Comment_1089679
We all know people aren't doing it for that reason. They are teabagging at the exit, rubbing in the fact the got away.
I have to agree with this. Especially when most if not the the whole team is there teabagging, it's become toxic behavior, at that point. It should be punished with a similar point/pip loss as a killer staying to close to the hook, as you recommended.
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1087886#Comment_1087886
So now you can tunnel to your hearts content.
I’m sure that won’t affect the health of the community at all.
Yup. Because at some point, everyone that's constantly whining about it will quit or realize it's a viable, if annoying, play-style that prioritizes taking out the weakened, easier to kill prey, like any intelligent hunter would.
Much better than adhering to some silly, Survivor-made notion that letting an injured, unhooked Survivor run away in favor of going after a healthy Survivor, instead is the smart choice.
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@ABannedCat said:
You can't harass the powerrole in the game.
Its like harassing your boss in a company. No, that doesn*t work, they will just fire you.
Tell that to the folks upset about lobby dodging killers.
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Yeah, sorry about that. Lol. I was a bit too quick on the draw.
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Had what? My question was what do Survivors view as harassment directed at them from a killer as.
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@McLightning said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1087394#Comment_1087394
To be fair, while these things do happen, the frequency of them happening is being grossly over exaggerated now that the penalties are in place. I've had ALL these bugs happen to me. Stuck in healing animation (EGC won't even kill you there), infinite load screen, pretty much everything. I've been on Holidays for the past 6 weeks (beauty of working at the same place for a decade). I've played a lot of DBD in that time (so much that I'm level 56 of the rift). I've had one of these things, only one, happen once. On hawkins, against an Oni.
Seems like everyone just hates the idea of having to stay in the game/die on hook now when things don't go their way. They can't cuck the killer of their sacrifice anymore and they are butthurt.
Absolutely agree here. Too many times have I had a looper get to third down/hook and DC because they were going to die and threw a fit. Likewise, I've had too many games where the looper dies, and one or more players DC because they don't have a distraction to keep them protected while trying to gen rush. Same with games that I was able to stop the rush early and hook a Survivor fast.
That, and I absolutely LOVE that it punishes," You tunneled me, so I'm DCing to deny you a kill." Types, of which there are FAR too many.
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@mmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1085718#Comment_1085718
I have done google search after google search after google search on this. Have never found anything other than blocking chat. Please tell me you aren't yanking my chain. If I can block certain players you don't know how happy this would make me.
No chain yanking. Promise. Blocking someone's profile on console prevents them from appearing in online play modes for the majority of titles. I'm sure there may be some exceptions (nothing is perfect) but it's kind of like Facebook. The matchmaking pulls from PlayStation Networks online resources, since it doesn't have it's own internal save database. It relies on the same pathways, so blocking a profile from all interactions also extends to encountering them in gameplay, since there can't be any guarantees that in-game communication doesn't exist. It's ment to be a protection against harassment. Of course, if a game has dedicated server-sided saves, it could be possible to get past that by using a games internal communications database, which I assume is why, as Lightning just pointed out to me, profile blocking doesn't work on PC, or so I would assume.
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@McLightning said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1085718#Comment_1085718
That only works on console. Blocking someone on Steam/PC does NOT seed them out of anything.
Well than I stand corrected, at least where PC is concerned, though that does seem rather odd.
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@mmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1085595#Comment_1085595
Try sitting in my place and waiting an extra 20 minutes because a killer left a lobby. But you keep on assuming you know what it's like for everyone else.
Actually, mmain is exactly on the mark. DCing affects an in-progress game, which can drasty alter it's outcome on both sides. Lobby dodging does not. Sure it sucks to have to wait longer, but it's still better then having your teammates just up and abandon you because they arbitrarily decided it's no longer worth their time, or wasting time chasing a Survivor, only to have them DC because they realize they can't escape and automatically claim you're Tunneling.
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@mmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1085651#Comment_1085651
Again... tell me how you have accomplished that. I can block them from chatting with me, but I have yet to find any way to block them from being put in a match with me.
You go to their profile and select block profile from the options menu. It's really not that hard to understand.
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@mmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1085679#Comment_1085679
Please tell me how I can block playing against specific players. I have found ways to block them contacting me via chat, but haven't found a single way to block them being put in the same match as me.
Blocking their profile doesn't just prevent them from contacting you, it seeds them out of online interactions as a whole. That includes in-game interaction.
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@mmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1085651#Comment_1085651
On PS4 I can block them from post game chat, but I can't block them otherwise. Try again.
That would be why you go to their profile and block it. Blocking their profile prevents them from being matched with you in game. Maybe try reading up on your systems interfaces.
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@Feyd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1084908#Comment_1084908
Add-on rarity, offering rarity. Player name. No info on the specific killer chosen. If you see an iri add-on or iri offering, you have the option to dip, just like the killer can with multiple toolboxes or a key.
That would result in doing exactly the same as what DCing allowed: letting Survivors take the game hostage by forcing Killers to play only what the Survivors are willing to play against. Nothing about that is ok.
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@Nicholas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1085651#Comment_1085651
I don't know about other platforms but it doesn't work that way on PlayStation. There's no way to block a specific player from ever being in your lobby.
That's EXACTLY the way it works on any platform. I can vouche being a PlayStation player, myself.
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@mmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1084798#Comment_1084798
Isn't that always the way it is?
A killer sees toolboxes and they should have the right to dodge. They see Claudettes and don't want to play against those they should have the right to dodge. Did the survivors in the lobby have keys? They should have the right to dodge.
Let a survivor say they don't want to play against a particular perk or a particular killer and they get told it's just part of the game and they should just shut up and play.
For the record I'm not actually saying I shouldn't have to play against a particular perk or killer. Just saying if it's perfectly acceptable for killers to be able to choose to not participate in a match because they don't like what they see in the lobby survivors should get the same option.
It wouldn't work. As an example, the Doctor is en vogue right now due to his re-work. Most Survivors are complaining about seeing him a lot. Or killers the one and down, like Bubba and Billy. Allowing Survivors the option to see their Killer before hand allows them to take the game hostage by forcing people to play only the Killers they're willing to play against, reducing the ability for Killers to find matches with the characters they like to play.
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@Feyd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1084834#Comment_1084834
As long as I can see if the game will be unfun before I go in I'm cool with it. But loading in just to see an iri head huntress with infantry belt and ebony mori is a game not worth playing.
If you're not willing to take that risk, why even play? It's a gamble every time. The whole reason we're seeing this now is because DC enthusiasts forced killers to stop using their best items and offerings or constantly not have any fun being forced to play to the whims of Survivors, or risk DC's and not have a real match.
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@Nicholas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1084437#Comment_1084437
Yeah, what happens to survivors that can't see the name of the killer who has caused issues in the past? Survivors just have to put up and deal with it. But Killers have the ability to exercise discretion and decide to dodge a Lobby if it contains a Survivor, they dislike for whatever reason.
That would be why you take down their name after a match and block them. It's not rocket science. If you don't like how someone plays, block them, and they won't be matched with you. Kinda how that works.
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@KornySon10 said:
Gen speeds are fine. You only get gen rushed if you are chasing 1 survivor for minutes at a time and refuse to break chase.
If it is taking them minutes to go down, they are better than you. If you can't find a single survivor in the whole game who you can down in a reasonable amount of time, the entire lobby is better than you, and you deserve to lose.
Simple, really.
Scott is a huntress main so it's no wonder he is complaining he can't slap on the braindead ruin and now actually gets punished for mis-positioning his 110 killer on the map.
Yeah....no. None of that is true. It's got nothing to do with skill when three to four Survivors spawn closely and hit a gen together, right off the bat. For what you're saying to be even REMOTELY true, it would have to be an all solo queue, and that rarely happens at higher ranks.
Fact is, the first gen popping is what alerts most killers to their first chase, outside of perks like Discordance, or blind luck. You also assume with this argument that higher ranked killers would ever make the mistake of chasing the obvious Loopers, rather than observe the team to see who's got items from the start, and whoa trying to sneak vs. who's running immediately.
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@Zombra808 said:
They simply have more ways/chances to make survivors lives a living hell. You see too many items, bring Franklin's, take their items, and DC. See a team that may look like a SWF, that's probably not, bring Ebony Mori. Gets looped by a survivor for 5 gens because they're better than you, face camp. So many opportunities to make the game so terrible for Survivors. Sure survivors can what, Tea bag, that's it. Sure there is doing gens, their one and only objective, and flashlight clicking, most of the time to take agro off of someone being tunneled. Killers simply have more ways to make Survivors hate their lives, and they take it more often. Before you say I have a survivor biased, I don't. I play Killer and Survivor equally, have been bullied as both, and gotten to rank 1 as both. I see both sides equally, but whenever I want to be toxic, it's usually just slap on an Ebony Mori and OP addons. Survivors can't do that, all they can do is bring a key, which imo isn't toxic, just op.
There's a lot to unpack here, but let's start with the whole "Mori's are toxic". No, they aren't. They're simply a tool. No more, no less. They simply cut corners, allowing the killer to do what they're supposed faster then normal. The issue Survivors have with them is exactly that: there is no counter play beyond not getting found/caught. What most DON'T think about, is that it more than fits into the the games overall concept. It embodies it, actually.
Now the Franklin's & DC would be considered toxic, for sure. Same with Franklin's and camping the item.
Face camping is annoying, but what you described is a frustrated Killer that lacks skill, patience, etc to want to chase an individual that's obviously a problem for them. They want them gone by any means necessary with no chance of being more problematic then they already have been. Face camping while striking over and over again, despite it doing nothing is toxic, angry behavior, or a new killer.
Flashlight clicking isn't always a means of trying to get someone's attention, I'm afraid. More often then not, it's used at endgame with copious teabagging and pointing, which is absolutely toxic, especially if it's from a looper you had trouble with, or someone who's been a particular thorn in your side that game and knows it.
As to the terrorizing, it's in the job description, as well. It's a means to an end. Cause chaos, take advantage of said chaos to slow Survivors down or keep them occupied, and then use that as a window to hunt them down and kill them. Nothing wrong with that.
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@mike4156 said:
This nonsense of face camping someone over half way through the game because they're good has got to go. This can no longer be a supported "play style?" because it's the epitome of trolling. You legit have the power to make me sit there and do nothing so that's exactly what you're going to do. Because you're upset. No one should feel entitled to kills or escapes. However the way this community acts in game is as if that's how they want things to be. Like bubbas chainsaw rev that grants loads of camping, or spirit still being able to go half way across the map every 20 seconds. Now I have to abandon people and deal with NOED every single game too, I can't get every totem every round don't give me that bs I get 2-3 myself it takes up time.
So here's the thing: if you're getting face camped in lower ranks, they're probably new, don't know better, or frustrated, especially recently, given the matchmaking issues with the rank mixing nonsense.
If you're getting into green ranks, it's usually one of the previous reasons noted, or because you made mistake, and they're going to capitalize on it because the gap in skill is obvious enough to them that they feel the need to remove you before you're anymore of a problem them you may have been already.
In purple and red ranks, it's usually a troll or meme build doing exactly that. So if you're getting face camped that often, I'd figure out what mistakes you're making that keeps getting you caught. Because ultimately, it's YOUR fault. Killers don't really have as huge an advantage in a chase as they probably should, so if you've been looping them a long time and get caught, then it's more likely because you made a mistake, were over reliant on pallets, or allowed bloodlust to build up too far.
It's sometimes just bad luck, too. Either way, if you're getting face camped, it's a good opportunity to let the rest fix gens and such. Being the hero that way kinda sucks, but you aren't getting out of every game alive. That's just the way it is.
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@mike4156 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1061926#Comment_1061926
do you even read? im talking about how op it is that bad killers get one over on new survivors all the time. I might escape but it pains me to see lack of skill getting a reward on a poor guy that doesn't really understand the game or where the hell the totems are for that matter.
Did you ever once stop to think that many of those so-called "bad killers" are new, as well? I'd say not, seeing as the Survivor players are the only ones you aren't calling names.
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@SleepyWillo said:
Killer is easier now than it's ever been. If you're struggling still I don't know what to tell ya
Yeah....that's a lie, straight up. Maybe in low ranks, but not in purple or red.
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Prove Thyself - Because one perk shouldn't benefit a whole team, especially not to the tune of %10.
Unnerving Presence - Because extending your terror radius that far is impractical and kinda silly if you aren't the Doctor, Wraith, Spirit, or Demo.
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@BigTimeGamer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1054298#Comment_1054298
Seeing as MMR is being added, a "win" has to be defined in some manner
Failing to defend gens and then relying on Noed to score an easy kill should not be considered a win
Defending Gens isn't the objective. It never has been. That could only EVER have been considered the objective if you were trying to prioritize a timer system that ultimately punished Survivors for not finishing them within a given limit.
Since that's not the case, NOED can't be considered anything like what you're saying. It's intended to be a long term strategy for those who wish to draw out the game, or to assist Killers as a backup. It can also be used to punish gen rushing, and as a means to assist perks like Rancor.
Besides, those that wait to try and only score kills with it, alone, aren't going to be met with much success, but even then, it's THIER voice to play that way. It's THIER prerogative.
As to winning, if you're looking for a clearly defined measure of a win, them Survivors escaping is the only real one, aside from a 4k. Personally, I'd say even 1k could be considered a victory, given the current skew towards Survivors.
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@Knots said:
It's actually a trash perk that no killer should or needs to run. You will win more games if you run something else in that slot.
It's actually not, but that's just your opinion. People win games by playing to THEIR strength, not YOURS.
@PB182 said:
It's a crutch.
So are Keys, and yet....
@BigTimeGamer said:
its not the fact that it exists that people dislike it, it’s the killer being rewarded for failing their only objective
Killers haven't failed anything. The job's in the name, and the match isn't over just because the last gen pops, but nice try.
And to all three of you, perks exist because different play styles exist. Some prefer killing quickly, other like to stalk and play mind games. Just because you don't personally like to play with it, or it doesn't mesh with your style, doesn't make it bad.
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@Griffin4Godhand said:
I've looked on the forums a little bit and somebody had posed the idea of adding a witch to the killer roster and I believe that is a pretty fun idea. I would like to suggest that you add baba yaga to The Killers because she already has a very interesting lore. Plus that her map could be her actual cabin in the woods on chicken legs that might move around... that idea just makes me smile
Woot! I'm so glad you liked it! @Waffleyumboy helped me with some ideas for it. Baba Yaga would be perfect, especially as lore goes! Not to mention she'd fit right in AND give us another female killer.
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@AsePlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1049611#Comment_1049611
So it's cool if something wildly unbalanced comes out once in a while? It's still wildly unbalanced. Tf is that argument
The "just don't get caught" argument is always so funny. Do we just not do our objective and hope the Killer doesn't have whispers and be immersed for 40 minutes?
I got 12 Mori's on my way to leveling up my prestige 2 billy to level 40. Seems like more than a "few" (Most of them are ebonies too!).
Even deleting one survivor from the game early game sets the entire pace of the match unless the killer royally screws up. You can't justify Mori's in their current state lmao
And it's not surprising to see you get more Mori's after you prestige- it's part of the incentive for doing so. But even then, that's 40 levels with only 13, and not all Ebony. That's well over a couple million BP, which isn't a quick farm. So the real metric to that is HOW MANY GAMES YOU PLAYED WHILE GETTING THERE. That is to say, I GUARANTEE you played WAY more then 13 games getting there, which means even if you used them all, there's no possible way to have played every he with a Mori. That said, not every killer likes using Mori's in the first place.
All in all, you sound like someone that's had a bad run of games not going well, which indicates a need for more practice and/or patience. Just my opinion.
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@AsePlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1049611#Comment_1049611
So it's cool if something wildly unbalanced comes out once in a while? It's still wildly unbalanced. Tf is that argument
The "just don't get caught" argument is always so funny. Do we just not do our objective and hope the Killer doesn't have whispers and be immersed for 40 minutes?
I got 12 Mori's on my way to leveling up my prestige 2 billy to level 40. Seems like more than a "few" (Most of them are ebonies too!).
Even deleting one survivor from the game early game sets the entire pace of the match unless the killer royally screws up. You can't justify Mori's in their current state lmao
You can do your objectives and still not get caught. It sounds like you either play solo, or could use some work on looping. It's not hard to avoid most killers.
As to balance, if you've never played upper-purple/red rank games, let me tell you it's absolutely ESSENTIAL to secure any upset possible, especially early. Otherwise, it's a 5 minute match everytime, and NOT in the Killers favor.
Keys are worse for all of the reasons I've stated, but it's obvious you've yet you experience a game that you got control of, pressure was great, two kills and gaining, only to have a hatch appear, and they either brought a key, or worse, found one in a chest, and BOTH escape, suddenly ending all your hard work with a stalemate. THAT'S ridiculous and broken.
Moris make it easier to do what killers are supposed too. Keys do as well, but a Mori only punishes those that manage to get caught, whereas Keys punish a killer for doing what they were supposed well enough to actually get to play.
Get to Red and play a bit. Then tell me which is fair. And since I play Survivor more then I get to play Killer because I play with a friend most times, that should tell you something.
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@AsePlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1045940#Comment_1045940
I think I'm capable of being in red ranks and spawning in a deadzone against Hillbilly.
And I'd sure hope it takes a big load of the Killer's shoulders, because they were just handed a free win unless they royally screw that up.
Don't know why you bring up SWF. Solo queues can result in Mori's as well. And they're even more devastating, furthering the divide between solo queue and SWF.
I play both sides, and when I use a Mori as killer the game just becomes so easy and dull to the point that it is boring. I'm guarantied to win if I even remotely try.
It really shouldn't be a controversial opinion to say that something that doesn't let you play the game isn't good for the game that you're trying to play. But here we are I guess.
That's the issue I'm having with your opinion. Your acting like all killers are ALWAYS using Mori's, and ALWAYS driving the game down as fast as possible. Neither of those is the case. First, even a fully prestiged character won't have Ebony more than a few times, because their fairly rare in the web, and unlike keys, that's the ONLY way Killers get them. Second, the prevailing mori's, Ivory and Cypress, only allow for ONE death period, then it's business as usual. The best counter to a Mori is to not get caught.
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@kate_best_girl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1045333#Comment_1045333
For it to allow 2 people to leave through hatch that means you'd have two kills and they would have finished 3 gens. I DESPISE gen times as I've literally stopped playing killer at this point because of gen rushing is so out of control. But if we have to fix keys or gen times I'd rather gen times and moris be fixed first
Yeah, no. Mori's don't need to be fixed. That comment right there makes it obvious you're Survivor sided in this, because Mori's can drastically alter gen time issues by allowing you to eliminate Survivors early, slowing down progress. Not only does it think the heard, bit from the moment that Mori skull shows onscreen, the caution kicks in and makes the rest think and play.more carefully, more often then not. Mori's are one of the few immutable answers to gen rushing, used properly. Where as a Killer can work their butt of all match, get a couple hard won kills and back the last Survivors into a corner, only to have them circumvent the repair and exit gate process and escape all at once, ending the trial early.
So no, it's not better, or different. Keys should be single use/user offerings, just like Mori's.
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@AsePlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1045379#Comment_1045379
I don't think anyone is complaining about people who are somehow incapable of tunneling and doing a mori.
It's the people who succeed and can delete a survivor with 5 gens still remaining. You can try and justify that all you want, but it literally just circumvents the entire game flow and if you disagree I don't really know what to say. At least when someone has a key the match still occurs.
If someone is getting caught that fast, it's at lower ranks. That rarely happens at purple or above. And that's not the Killers fault that's just bad rng spawning. You spawned, killer found you faster than normal, hooks and tunnels, then waits for the rescue and ends you. That takes a HUGE load of the killer by slowing down the pace of the trial to more manageable levels. Just because you have to cue up for another match, doesn't mean it's game breaking or op. Just means you lacked the skill to get away or got unlucky. And if it's a problem. Because you're in a swf team, just think about how the killer feels having to go up against teams almost constantly. Newsflash: it's not fun.
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@EnderloganYT said:
plauge. they aim for the first person found, and tunnel them into the ground because sickness makes them an easy target
That's not toxic, it's smart. Tunneling is just targeting the weakest link. If you're a decent looper, it's not much of an issue. Toxic behavior is the crappy head shaking nonsense some do after you loop them and they want to rub it in that you made a mistake and got caught, or killers that face camping and hit you over and over. Or Pig/Ghostface teabagging. Tunneling might be annoying, but it's not toxic.
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@AsePlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1045298#Comment_1045298
I don't really have much to say to you if you think Mori's are fine. Enjoy the crutch while you can I suppose.
I'll just take that to mean you have no argument because there isn't one to make. Besides, you all are acting like Killers have a Mori every match. That's what makes this so laughable. Sure some stockpile offering and the like, but the reality is that the majority of the time, we don't have one to use and either rely on a convoluted skill, or the good old fashioned way of doing things, while every other match (give or take) someone either tries to bring a key, or finds one on the map.
It's not even a comparison. A one use offering that you may not even get to use, vs a versetile item that lets you track each other, the killer, and has multiple means to preserve it for use several times in a row, if one so desires? In a four vs one setting in which one can also bring ANOTHER item that allows them to cooperatively track the very reason for using the key with only the slightest counterplay situational interrupt with only certain Killer abilities or a chase?
Nah, that's broken in every way.
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@silverwolf4455 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1043526#Comment_1043526
Yes moris and keys need changed in the same patch.
Ivory mori - no change
Eboni mori - kill everyone on death hook
Purple key - boost to 30 seconds of usage and cant open the hatch.
Pink Key- 30 seconds of usage and can open hatch but it immediately closes, only good for a single survivor escape.
See, most of that is sensible. The ivory is the only thing I disagree with, purely because match speed is heavily dictated by Survivors. Once that different skull comes up, they change pace, and in red ranks, that's often a wasted Mori. It's why I don't use them often. They are nice to have, for those occasions where I wish to use one, but they aren't on par with a potentially reusable item that can be found in the trial and allows more than one to leave.
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@kate_best_girl said:
Imma be honest, moris need a nerf so badly and keys aren't comparable to moris in the slightest. Keys can only save everyone if every generator is done. Moris are basically guaranteed 3ks with the only requirement being one hook which isn't bad. So no keys shouldn't be nerfed first or at all for that matter
And since in Red ranks, that gen is done within the first minute, that's totally fair, right? While I understand that queues and match length are pretty messed up right now, it doesn't change the fact that a Killer still has to put in the work to use a Mori. Keys should be on par, and they aren't. One is an offering, one a multipurpose item that can be protected and reused. That in and of itself makes them unbalanced by comparison. Keys and hatch mechanics need a rework. Personally, if they ain't changes it so the hatch closes directly after allowing the key holder -and no one else- through, then, it would be far more balanced.
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@survivormain1105 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1044367#Comment_1044367
I'm so sorry that you think that real situations relate to a game played against real people. With a fictional killer against fictional characters in fictional realm. But yeah def like hunting the game in the woods.
Lol. Yup. It's called translation of skills. Survivors made up rules don't apply and never will. You're injured, your marked. It's not hard to understand. I may hit the unhooker, given the chance, and chase them if they become a problem, but especially with the speed at which red ranks go, it's a no brainer that thinning the heard as soon as possible to give myself some time to breath and play comfortably is a given must.
Just because you don't like it, doesn't make it not smart, efficient, and effective. Fair is pretty subjective when the devs side with Survivors and provide high synergy items/perks/add-ons toward a single purpose, that can affect an entire team with no drawbacks, yet destroy the synergy of anything that counters it with weak excuses and little to no real justification.
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@AsePlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1044410#Comment_1044410
Just assumed you didn't read my reply. You realize Survivors have half the pallets they used to, right?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1044402#Comment_1044402
I don't recall whining at any point here, just trying to have a discussion about something that is clearly lets killers bypass a majority of the game. If you want to live life on ez mode, it's fine; just don't forget that you are and aren't above anyone.
I'd like to think I've become someone decent at the game after 1k hours, also I play both roles so berating me for being a "Survivor main" is such a single-cell response.
Telling me to grow up followed by a "lol #triggered" is pretty ironic, but deep down I think you know that. Keep living in your echo chamber :)
*Gasp* A serious response? About time. FYI, you have a conversation by saying civil intelligent things to one another, not making snarky insinuations because you don't like someone else's opinions. Though my initial comment may have been bold and rather sarcastic, you've no right to begin making silly claims.
I play both sides as well, thought I prefer killer. You, on the other hand, clearly prefer Survivor. At current, Survivors hold the majority of the power in deciding match length, that's a fact, especially in red ranks. So it's amusing that so many that play Survivors get so bent out of shape when a killer turns the tables and starts quickly executing Survivors, and calling it unfair. In the same thread, people are whining about tunneling.
It's the same nonsense rhetoric, again and again. I don't play with Mori's but every once in a blue moon. The idea that the only Mori that most of you won't change is the hardest to use because it's not just about catching you, but simultaneously about trying to keep you from finding the hatch is laughable. Survivors are living on easy street, right now, yet the one thing that lets us even the odds, though it's a single use item that we get few of, is the first thing you want gone? Not a chance. Killers still have to work for Mori's, while Survivors just have to play a waiting game, then some quick hunt and find. Most find the hatch while hiding or running, anyway, and Killers have no counter play to that. It's only fair we should have something, too.