BlueRose
BlueRose
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I feel yall nerfed Eruption way too hard. Yes, it needed a change/nerf but making it 10% of the current is dumb and the aura reading is a neat idea but I feel it is completely useless. I just don't see the benefit of being about to see survivors for 10s when I downed someone on the other side of the map. By the time I hook the downed survivor and get to the gen they working on they most likely either finished it or ran to another part of the map. I just don't see how that benefits an m1 killer(who was the most who runs Eruption). You could say it be good for high-mobile killers like nurse or blight or for sniping as a huntress but those killers really need to kick gens. As huntress you really don't have time to kick gens, usually, that time is better-used reloading. As for nurses and blight since they can down survivors fast, pain res is usually the go-to perk since it rewards you for downing survivors back to back. Overall I think you did what you always do the overused killer perks and nerf it to the ground instead of lowing it down slightly. Eruption now joins the nerf club with Thana, Ruin, Pop, and Overcharge. Congrats BVHR you did it again. You have shown you can't just slightly tune down an OP killer perk to make it fairer and rather just kill it off completely. Meanwhile, the number one survivor perk stays number one even after its rework in 6.1. DH can continue to live as the best survivor perk while killers always lose theirs.
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@Entitled_survivor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3341286#Comment_3341286
If anyone told me pain reso + dms is unhealthy / bad / unfair i would literally tell them to git gud and use their eyes
Eruption was absurdly strong and had to get the nerf hammer ( a bit softer though)
I agree it needed a nerf but this was way too hard of a nerf. Pop was fair and it was nerfed, Ruin was fair and it was nerfed. Thana was only useable on two out of 30 killers and it was nerfed. Overcharging by itself in the PTB was fair and it was nerfed. A perk of being fair doesn't mean ######### to the devs. If it is complained about by a lot of survivors it will be nerfed to the ground like they did with all those other perks. My point is the devs take nerfs way too far with killer nerfs. They dont actually try to fix the problem with a overpower perk they take the easy route and just nerf it to the ground so no one will every run it again. PR and DMS will get this treatment in a few months mark my words.
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@BlueHorkew said:
Eruption is dead, good.
Also i doubt they will nerf Pain Res, its one of the most fair regression perks i doubt they would touch it, it would be really unnecessary.
No they will totally nerf PR. When it becomes the number one used perk alongside DMS the survivors will flood the forums once again and complain about it and the devs then will nerf it to the ground as they do with every strong overused killer perk. They did it with Thana, Overcharge, Ruin, Pop, and now eruption. If you think PR is safe you kidding yourself. No killer perk is safe if it's the most used killer perk,s unlike DH which was num one before its rework and still num on after its rework.
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@Vampirox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337344#Comment_3337344
i dont understand how you can abuse DS now the way it is?
doesnt work in endgame, almost every action except hoping into a locker removes ds
the best DS can do is take a hit for someone put them in mending or wait out their 8sec bt before a hit and leave him slugged.
Im a believer of DS being able to be used after every hook and/or make survivor have a shared 12 hook. No other way to fix tunneling
If people still have a problem with DS its more of a you problem and try actually improving your killer skills like the way suvivors have been adapting with all the nerfs.
The problem with the slugging thing is if a Killer downs someone who using their DS to body block and the killer slugs them, then survivors will start complaining about killers slugging even more. Also do not forget the whole unbreakable basekit they tested out with the new mori system still can be a thing they do. If that happens then you will have survivors taking hits off-hook using the base kit BT, go down to bait out a DS use, and being slugged just to be able to pick themselves up shortly after. If basekit unbreakable happen there be nothing left to punish survivors for using their anti-tunnel tools offensively
I also will add I rarely tunnel anyone right off hook. Most of the time I try to go after the unhooked but I will tunnel if the hooked survivors start getting between me and the unhooker. If you don't run away from the killer after you are unhooked and want to use the tools to keep you safe as a weapon against me then I will tunnel you no matter what. I always go out of my way to play semi-nice (alot of times it cost me kills).
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Otz talked about it today some and I agree with him. The problem with putting the stun back to 5s is that it won't really hurt the strongest killers but will be very punishing to the weaker ones. 5s stun does nothing to killers like nurse, blight or Spirit (with speed addon's) but it devastates killers like trapper, Myers, and Freddy. Now I know what you will say "well just don't tunnel and you won't get hit by DS" Well you right but survivors will use the power of DS force the killer to tunnel them by body blocking and ect. Even now they use things like OtR and the basekit BT to make the killer hit them and force them to chase them. If you add 5s DS and a basekit DS to this you just asking for survivors to use these antitunnel tools offensively. Now what you could do is make it where DS makes killers like nurse and blight lose tokens so they can't use thier power right after getting stunned.
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@Trollinmon said:
When I watch that demo game I see exactly why tunneling is such a bad habit for killers to get into. At the end of the game he mentions that if you want to take anything from that game it is you need to tunnel people(14:50). But lets look at how to actually get wins without needing to tunnel.
First, his build makes no sense. You should never run CI and LP together on demo. If you want to run either it is fine but both perks are doing opposite things for early game. If you run LP then you are looking to drop portal on spawn and go straight into a chase while CI you are looking for a portal setup.
His add-ons continue this trend by not synergizing with his build. With those add-ons I would go with a kick build and put portals on top of the gens. If he wanted to go aggro then maybe the bbq and barbs add-on for quickly getting in chase and better pallet break. Barb's glasses is imo demo's best add-on and only is a yellow.
For that meg save I would go after her. It's a survivor induced tunnel in that scenario. They should maybe play better and not put themselves in that position in the first place. I wouldn't consider that tunneling just like if a survivor ran at me isn't me tunneling if I chase them.
You can keep track of hook states and not go for a 8 hook games before killing someone. You can simply ignore one survivor and focus on getting hook states with the other 3. You can literally have the first death with 1 gen remaining and you win because the other 2 survivors will have hooks on them. It sucks for the one guys but you are giving chase for the other 3. This makes the game now 9 hooks for a win and 7 hooks would be your max before a kill with the other 2 on death hook. Now this doesn't always work but it's a very good tactic to use in general.
In Otz's defense, that Demo game was doing a challenge run he currently trying to do. The challenge is a winning streak to using the same build on every killer with same the same color combo of add-ons. So in that game, that was his first game of a new attempt for the streak with a whole new build he was testing out(with each attempt he changes up the perks). So if he won that match(a 3k) he would use that same build on another killer and the same color combo of add-ons(Green and purple) on the next killer. So yeah it may not be the best build for a demo but he currently not playing the game like most of us since he is doing a challenge.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3333662#Comment_3333662
The alternative isn't good either.
If we let those Killers have perks that are so strong that they actually make WEAK Killers able to contend with skilled players, what about the Killers that don't need those perks? The Nurses, the Blights, the Weskers etc etc.
Suddenly, Killers that didn't need the help are getting it
I know, that is why I said I somewhat agree but that is why we need to demand the dev team not to drag their feet on these changes. Like I understand new killers make money and all that but the health of the game is more important in the long term. My comment was more aimed at the devs than you since Im tired of them taking forever or not telling us their plans for the killers we already have.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3333641#Comment_3333641
"Not much to look forward to if you aren't a PC Blight or Nurse player!"
That was the line I was referencing.
Also, the OP is complaining that low-tier Killers can't compete against good teams without being carried by perks. Doesn't that mean the perks were way too strong if they were compensating for poor Killer balancing? Shouldn't we nerf those perks and take a look at those Killers instead?
I somewhat agree with your last statement about we need to look at buffing the low tier killers and nerf the high end perks but my concern is how long it would take the devs to get around doing so. Say they nerf the strong perks now and that makes the low tier killers much wrost to play. How long will the devs leave those killers in a miserable state before getting around to buffing them. BHVR isn't known for their fast response time when something needs to be changed especially when it comes to individual killers.
For example last year they told us in a Q&A that they would be looking at the twins after the GF and Legion rework/add on pass. It been exactly a year since said Q&A and they haven't said a word about the progress on those changes for The Twins. Now imagine they have to look at more than one killer. It most likely will take them years to buff and balance the lower tier killers individually. This why I honestly wish they would take a pause on making new killers every 3 months and force on balancing the ones we have now.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3333045#Comment_3333045
I think you're focusing too much on balance here and not Quality of Life which is what this is intended for, and where the biggest gains are going to come from. It's why I've said from the start not to focus on balance when discussing this feature, as information alone doesn't change the killer experience.
Solo survivor was unarguably the group that was in dire need of attention in respect to qol in the game.
It's both a QoL and a buff to soloQ. For example, seeing the gen progress significantly buffs the survivor perk adrenaline since now a survivor who runs it could freely go get in the chase when a gen is almost ready to pop and almost always get a guaranteed value from it. As I said I don't mind yall making life for solo better but to sale this as only a QoL change is a little dishonest since it is also a buff.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
Idk why everyone is so upset about this. Giving solo players more information was a necessary step to balance the game. There was too much of a gap between solo and SWF and it meant it was more difficult to balance killers and everything else around that.
Will the extra information have an impact and is it a buff to solo survivors? Absolutely. And in some regards it’s even a buff to partial SWFs of 2 or 3 players because they have info on their solo queue teammates now too. But it isn’t giving you anything a 4-stack SWF didn’t already have.
Killers can always be buffed again if necessary (or at the very least some of the weaker ones which need it regardless) especially when Eruption gets nerfed which we know is happening.
I know Im not upset as a killer main but I am concerned with how long it would take the devs to take action to buff killers if this info does cause kill rates to drop. I don't have a lot of faith in the dev team when it comes to changing a role when it's in need. It took them this long to improve solo and we still waiting for that so call twins to rework/look at. A year ago they said they would be looking at Twins next after GF and Legion and we still haven't gotten any more info on that since then. So yeah that's my only concern but I am happy they trying to make the weakest role in the game better(soloQ).
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@Marik1987 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/363062/reverse-the-6-5-1-update-now
They do this to close the Gap between Solo and SWF as best as they can. AFTER that, they will adress the killers.
My issue here: I can imagine it will take too long for the devs to adress 30 (!) Killers.
More personal needed XD.
Agreed my only issue/concern is the amount of time it will take them to buff the killers if this info does lower the kill rates by a good bit.
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@Mandy said:
Quality of Life for solo survivors is most definitely the goal of this feature - its still nowhere near the level the information that's obtainable in a SWF, which is partly why I'm emphasising quality of life here, as it's going to feel a lot better.
A group of SWF playing together doesn't necessarily mean they're going to be a crack seal team, they're still limited by their abilities/skill - giving solo players information is going to help for sure (a much needed help!), but it's not going to make them invincible as they still have to figure out what to do with the information presented to them.
As with any change that we make, these are things that we will be monitoring.
I'm all for this as long as y'all don't drag your feet on killers buffs if this does make kill rates drop and make killer significantly worse to play. I just don't want to sit in a miserable role for months to years just bc y'all are slow to get around to improving/balancing the game. Sorry I honestly don't have the most faith in the devs team response time on issues like balance.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3331229#Comment_3331229
The regression stopping is why I added the extra 5% to compensate.
That's fair but doesn't change the fact that the idea is just making the pain res+DMS combo into a single perk. In fact if they did do that, eruption would most likely be complained about even more bc before eruption was meta survivor complained about pain res+DMS ALOT.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3330524#Comment_3330524
Old DH had no counter. Current DH does so it is no longer problematic imo. As for Eruption I've made my suggestion as to what to do with it before but I'll repeat it here. Increase the regression to 15% and block the gen for 25 seconds. You have almost the exact same amount of regression that way without the incapacitated effect which is the actual problem.
I personally like @DBDVulture idea better bc it keeps eruption strong but is also unique, unlike your idea where you are just making eruption into a copy of Pain+DMS. I also don't care for gen blocking perks all that much bc they stop the regression while the gen is blocked(yes I know currently that part is bugged as shown in otz's stream yesterday. Right now gens continue to regress while being blocked but clearly, that is a bug that I'm pretty sure to be fixed sooner or later.) Your idea can work it's just that I don't think it's unique since we already have the pain+dms combo.
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@WitchKing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3331042#Comment_3331042
Fun fact, yesterday Otz discovered on stream that this is bugged and blocking generator doesn't stop its regression
Yeah I saw that too but I highly believe that is a bug that is going to be fixed sooner or later. So might as well treat it like that and not assume that it's going to be the normal going forward.
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I personally don't like reworking eruption to block a gen for a set time bc it goes against the idea the idea of a regress perk. If a gen gets blocked by the entity that means the regression gets paused. This means survivors could easily just camp the gen and wait for the block go away then tap it to stop the regression. I saw a suggestion another thread I like a lot more. Instead blocking the gen make a new effect with that gen just can't be worked on/touched for few seconds. I don't I'm just not a fan of gen blocking perks and we have so many of them already. Corrupt intervention, DMS, TT, and deadlock. I have mix feeling on most of these tbh. The only one I do love is corrupt bc I feel I get value out of it every time I run it unlike deadlock where most of time it feels like the perks does absolute nothing. I know this doesn't happen all the time but I still get over the one match I had where a swf was able to compete counter deadlock by 99 the last two gens and popping them at the exact same time, virtually deleting my perk.
Anyway I rather them do something different with eruption than just making it another gen blocking perk. That the end of the day though I'm pretty sure the devs going to take the lazy way out and just nerf the perk to the ground like they did with Thana and Ruin.
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@Bwsted said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3328555#Comment_3328555
So... eruption buff?...
Spine Chill's TR cue isn't directional. It doesn't tell where the killer is. Only how distant. Which id exactly what your ears can do.
It's neither a buff or a nerf in my eyes. I like StarLost suggestion for eruption bc it removes the thing everyone hates(the incap) but keep it strong. If you just remove the incap then all the perk become is a worst jolt. I know few ppl just like the perk to die but that's not good balancing or game design. Just because you hate a perk doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed to the point where it's completely useless. If that was true then DH should had been killed off with it's nerf but it didn't.
Personally I don't like it when a perk is nerf to the ground and made useless/niche. Killers already have so many perks that are like that now and I honestly hate it. I rather see all perks be made strong but fair. That's the only way you get variety in builds.
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Personally I want something that keeps it as a slowdown perks. I think a gift of pain or than like effect would be pretty good. If a survivor is near a eruption gen when goes off they get infected with a debuff that slows thier repair speed by some percentage for x amount of time. This way it will hit a survivor no matter if they are soloQ or swf and it's not as oppressive as incap since they will still be allowed to repair but at a slower speed than before.
I know someone ppl want entity block but I think there are already to many perks that blocks gens already. Why run a gen blocking eruption that requires you to kick gens when you can easily run pain res + DMS or deadlock? I would prefer something different tbh.
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@Peanits said:
I can assure you that they are not forgotten. We only have so much bandwidth for changes in any given update. With everything already in this mid-chapter, there simply isn't enough time for anything else, especially for a Killer like The Twins which would most likely require bigger and more substantial changes rather than small number tweaks.
I know for me I'm just more ticked off we haven't had any updates in a while about these so call changes for the twins so it does seem like yall forgot about it. It's been close to a year now since the dev team said Twins was the next killer they are looking at after GF and Legion but that was it, yall be radio silent ever since then. We haven't even had a Q&A stream in like a year, I believe the last one was on 1/20/22. A lot of us just want some info and to be let know yall are still working on something yall promise to work on.
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Just wanted to mention something about the sound cue since I seen lot of people thinking it's for the survivor know when nurse has her blinks back. Base on the wording in the dev post it's sounds more like it's for the killer and not survivors. It's more of a qol change for new players so they don't have to look at the corner of their screen to know when they have all their blinks back.
"Next, we’ve added a new sound cue when The Nurse has fully regenerated all her blink charges. This way, you’ll know when you’re ready to blink again without having to keep an eye on the corner of your screen."
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@I_CAME said:
Scott has the right take on it. Tunneling is a cheesy tactic used by bad killers who are incapable of chasing good players. Tunneling killers don't know how to properly run different tiles and can't mind game well. The entire strategy of tunneling is completely reliant on there being a bad/inexperienced survivor in the match. I know this from my own experience. Killers who hard tunnel off the hook completely collapse when they actually get matched with four good survivors. Then they come on here and complain about how they got gen rushed even though they applied zero pressure to the gens over the course of the game. It's why people are so desperate to get SWFs removed/nerfed. People just want easy games where they don't actually play against four people of equal skill. They want that one bad player who makes the game easy for them.
The problem is you rarely ever get equal skilled players in your matches since mmr sucks and has to low of a soft cap. Can't tell how times my matches are just completely one sided. I either get bunch of newish survivors who run around the map like chickens or a group of much higher skill survivors who sends me to a survivor sided maps(garden of pain or eeire of crows), use the best items and then loop me around so much I end up at best 2 hooks. I don't think I'm bad killer either, I have around 900hr and can preform pretty decent on all killers other than billy and trapper. Either way in my case in most of my matches I don't learn anything or get better bc I'm either over preformed or get completely out played and don't get the chance to play. If this game actually had a working mmr system that actually measured skill I don't think we would have this much of issues but since they don't want ppl waiting long times in queue we never really going to get that. Imo I wouldn't mind waiting 5+ mins in a queue if I knew most of my matches will be pretty even and fun to play. Shoot I wait 30+ min to do a dungeon in final fantasy 14 as a DPS main.
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I do agree I really think it's a matchmaking issue overall more than anything. The cap for mmr imo is set way to low and the range is set to wide. I know they don't want players waiting for matches but pairing weak opponents against strong opponents is a recipe for disaster bc it leads to this type of stuff imo. Killers feel they have to tunnel bc they sometimes or lot of times get pair up with much better survivors(swf also) and they become extremely stressed when gens start popping left and right. I know I do.
I have 900hrs in this mostly killer and I can tell when I'm against a swf or much better survivors than I. When I do get one of these matches as any killer (I play all of them) and 2 or 3 gens pop during my first chase I get extremely stressed out and tbh unmotivated to even to continue the rest of the match. As someone who doesn't like tunneling i usually just give up bc I don't want to win by tunneling someone out or camping. It's not fun to be stomped on either side. It's made worse when you add the toxicity into the mix. Can't tell you how many times I get teabags at the gates or in loops then have to see "gg baby killer" in the end game chat. Don't care what ppl say this community has a large toxic group who takes enjoyment embarrassing the other side.
That said I have tunneled ppl out of the game before but it only happens when the unhooked survivor gets in between me and the unhooker. They use their anti tunnel perks and basekit BT in a offence way that makes me tunnel them.
Also want to add you and Scott may not be on a magical server but you are by far not a normal player of DBD. You admitted yourself you are a ex comp player who has 4k+ hours in the game just like Scott or Otzs who makes a living off playing this game every day. Because how mmr works I bet a lot of your matches are against less skilled players so of course it feels really easy for you and Scott to get wins as killer. Not everyone has the time or the drive to complete with high skill players. ALOT just want to play few hours a day and relax. Anyway I do agree with you about the matchmaking part.
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Funny I think I never really seen so ppl complain about 3 genning this much untill the knight came out. In my opinion the problem of camping 3 gens that the start of the match has only became a thing because of two things. One is the knight and the other is the current meta.
On the knight, it seems to me 90% of the complaints about camping 3 gems at the beginning of a match always involved the Knight and no other killer. Reason I believe this is true is because I firmly believe the knight is one of the wrost design killers in the game right now. His power is honestly worthless in chase other than forcing ppl out of loops which I think artist can do that better. Outside that his power is only really useful camping 3 gens. So I think BHVR should look at the knight and make changes to him to make him more useful in chases and fun to play and play against.
The other problem is eruption. It's no secret that this perk is problematic for soloQ and should be charged in some ways. Personally I want the incap effect be replaced with another less oppressive status effect like a repair/healing debuff that gift of pain gives for a set amount of time.
That said I think these are the only things need to change when it comes to 3 gens. If you spend the gens out further apart you only going to make m1 killers even more miserable to play. Unless you want more nurse and blight mains in the game then yeah go ahead and do what you suggested. You can't change one thing
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305078#Comment_3305078
I have 5k hours, I do just fine the majority of the time with either no or very little gen regression.
Killers have a lot more freedom than they think, just need to put in the time
Thank you grand master for lightening us with your knowledgeable post that is equal to "git gud scrub"
I don't care what anyone says if you playing a low-tier killer in this game you have to have some kinda slowdown to compete. You may not need it in a party of newbies but for any lobby with decent survivors or higher, you do need some kind of slowdown on lower-tier killers. The only ones I say you don't really need slowdown at the A and S rank killers. Instead of bragging about your hours how about you tell us what killers you get these wins on with no slowdown and how you do it? So a real tip could go a long way you know.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3303001#Comment_3303001
I already pointed out that is a false equivalence. Don't try to dress an argument up to attack it. This an asymmetrical game that is designed specifically to have a shifting power dynamic where the advantage changes, by design, from one side to another. By design there will always be points where one side has an advantage over the other. There is also never a "lone barracks in a corner of the map" scenario for the killer especially, they are never that declawed even by the worst of skill matchups due to multiple mechanics that are built into this game.
Not only that, but there is a way to forfeit the game, it just carries a penalty for being unwilling to play the rest of it out. You don't even need to pull the plug on your internet or anything that drastic, its a literal button ingame. It carries a penalty because you are taking back your agreement to play out a game to its conclusion, so your disruptiveness is punished accordingly.
Do you know why the "team" stipulation keeps coming up? Because quitting ruins the game for your team. Quitting also ruins the game for your opponent, which have consumables on both sides (addons, offerings) which get used up regardless of how the match plays out. Thats on top of the most basic of considerations that many people want to actually play matches more than they care about winning, which I honestly don't understand how or why that seems to be a foreign concept to some people.
Edit: Also since you hyperbolized adding things like tennis and air hockey, yes, even 1v1 games have disconnect penalties. Fighting games especially have been cracking down hard on them in more recent years, for the same reasons I have provided.
Just putting in my two cents on all this. First of all of I'm losing so badly I just stop playing bc I'm not having fun anymore. It's not fun being stomped and clearly out matched by some swf group of survivors. Some may say you can learn something but you don't really learn anything if you mad and work up. So if I get that way I just stand at the gates wait for gens to be done and then up them myself. After that I usually just go to the basement and wait the 2min bc survivors always wait around till the last minute bc they want the chance to teabag you as the killer.
I do wish it was a faster way to end a match when you clearly have lost and outmatched in dbd. Just like I wish there a way a survivor could have the option to end thier life if the been slug to long.
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I like your idea for eruption but CoB doesn't need a nerf like that since it can easily be countered. All the survivors have to do is touch gen with CoB and it does nothing. So making it work on just one gen would make it completely useless. It already has a time limit for the 200% regression and it can be stopped by simply touching the gen.
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@RisingTron said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3300287#Comment_3300287
Exactly. But killer mains gonna killer main. genuinely laughed at the comment asking if killers were going to be compensated for this change. It's comedy at this point.
Let's not pretend here, if the shore was the other foot the survivor mains would be doing the same thing. I'm pretty sure if they came out and said they were giving killers like a 5 degrees extra fov the survivor mains out there would be making that a huge deal. So let's not say "killer mains gonna killer main" bc survivors mains do the same thing as killer mains do when it comes to buffs to the opposite side no matter how big or small they are. That said, as a killer main myself, I do think ppl are overreacting about this change and making it out way more than it should. I honestly don't think it's going to make killer lives any harder and even if it does make kill rates drop the devs will find a way to push them back to the % they want.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3299546#Comment_3299546
Like i said, a lot of ppl who live in EU speak enough english to make themselves understood in game. And sure it'd take time to add report/mute functions, so why would BHVR add vc before they were ready?
They could just wait until they have all the necessary work done before they release it. And even if you personally didn't talk, which is fair enough a lot of people don't, you could still hear other players and act on useful information they give. Even just one player in a team of survs talking could be very valuable in coordinating the team. And if it is just a 12 year old spewing rubbish? Muting someone takes a couple of seconds on an in game UI.
All they would need to do is take the time to sort out a report function and put something in place so they can access audio logs of the game. And not release VC until that was ready. As long as they put that in place VC would have little to no detriment as toxic people get muted and banned very rapidly. But it would be amazingly useful, especially for newer players. To learn from more experienced ones.
If it was any other dev I would agree with you but we talking about BHVR here and they have a track record of adding things into the game when they are not fully ready. Just look at this chapter for exp it was released with a bunch of bugs that broke the new map and other maps among a bunch of other stuff. I know they doing their best but at the same time, they have their plate filled with a long list of other things they doing and have to release a new killer every 3 months. Adding a VA system and a new reporting system to me would just end up being half-assed and rushed with bugs. I just think adding a ping system is much easier and does the same thing and is more time efficient than adding two whole new systems. Plus everyone would be able to use it no matter what. At the end of the day, this is how I feel, and tbh you not going to change my mind on it just like it seems I'm not going to change yours. Hope you have a blessed day
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As Mandy said they be monitoring the impact of this on the game so I don't think some of y'all should worry to much. If by some chance this change drop kill rates then I'm confident the devs will make changes to killer but in reality as other said I don't think this one lil change is going to do that much other than making soloQ lil more enjoyable to play. That is coming from a killer man who only has 900hrs who hates swf with a passion. I'm not super worried about it at all lol.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3299127#Comment_3299127
Idk why everybody assumes that dbd would be adding VC and not changing anything else. There are always people who will be hateful little goblins. But people dropping homophobic/racist/sexist slurs etc, will get banned extremely quickly. As long as the report function is robust.
And the idea that dbd wouldn't overhaul their reporting/monitering system alongside adding VC is insane. Idk what PC is like but on xbox you have a report function and the ability to capture clips including audio to report to microsoft and they are pretty quick with the banhammer. I'd imagine Playstation is the same or similar.
PC I have no idea as there is no central body to report offenders to.
Even streamers like Otz share my opinion on build in VC plus as it was already said but VC wouldn't help those who leave in EU since not everyone speaks the same language as they do in NA. Yes, there are always going to be toxic ppl but I much rather see BHVR force on another method that helps everyone like a ping system rather than a VC and new report system. As I said before there are ppl like myself who would never use VC bc they don't want to interact with randoms in a voice call for a few reasons(mine is Im really shy and just an introvert who doesn't like talking to ppl unless I know them). So a VC wouldn't do anything for me or others who are like myself. A ping system tho would help everyone and this new info thing they adding will also help everyone. I just don't think VC is a good fix to soloQ and will only lead to more problems rather than solving the ones we have now.
Also BHVR is super slow when it comes to major changes and I can tell you if they did add VC we wouldnt see a renew report system months or years after it was added. They just now adding small icons to survivor huds and that been asked for a while ago. They have thier hands full with making new killers every 3 months, balancing, map design and etc. So things come in pieces so I dont think its a far fetch idea that we would get a VC system before a repost system changes.
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@Paternalpark said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3299446#Comment_3299446
Killer improvements are new killers.
I wouldn't say that right after the knight release XD The knight is by far the worst killer design wise imo. I think sakaro is a better design killer than the knight. He is only good at camping 3 gens which isn't fun to do and outside that he is trash. I do hope we get a small rework or buff to him in the next ptb but I'm not holding my breath. Knight being added imo wasn't an improvement XD
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@InvadeGames said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298726#Comment_3298726
you could potentially trigger enduring 4x before the whole game picks up on it. a swf only requires one time and then all 4 start countering is i think his point.
That is true, the sec I down the David with my combo of perks everyone started to predroping partlets left and right. So I really wasnt able to do much else with my build. Then they started countering deadlock which left me with no perks at all for the match. I got one hook that whole match thanks to the fact my whole build was called out from the one chase.
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@DudelPuma said:
that is information NOT a buff ! great, now I know that my mates are useless that will definitely help the solo q so much that it's no longer cruel
I mean that no gens are concerned and dull totems are cleansed and chests are open are no indication that they are currently useless no now I only have the confirmation that either the solo q gets a real buff (more gen speed, heal speed, etc.) or the matchmaking measures the actual skill (e.g. chase duration) with the information together it would be much more pleasant and bearable solo
Any type of info is a buff for soloQ is great. So this is a small step in the right direction to make soloQ feel better. Yes, these buffs are not going to make it where you get better teammates but no buff is going to do that. As for the stuff you listed faster gens and heals would just buff solo and swf to the point where the killer will start feeling worst to play. You already can heal really fast by yourself with the best medkit+addon with coh. Hyperforce builds with a green toolbox+BNP can already make gens go really fast. They do not need to buff those things at all.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
Personally I think information perks at basekit would still buff SWFs. It's hard to make callouts in VC on dbd. Unless they are near an obvious feature like main building or killer shack. Aura reading would be a huge boon to SWFs that they really don't need.
You are on the mark though. Solo q is god awful and needs a buff that will not benefit SWFs. My personal suggestion is add in game VC. It would helps SWFs a fair bit and go some of the way to helping them co-ordinate a little better.
The arguments against it are pretty weak. People claim it will have a toxicity problem. (You know, like every game that has VC ever) well that is why there are mute block and avoid functions. And BHVR have said the game is not balanced around VC. Well SWFs get VC anyway, more so, now that discord is directly usable on the xbox and will be soon on the ps4. So it would be best to add it then adapt the balance for voice chat. The game can be a very fun social experience.
But atm it sucks for solo q. Especially at low mmrs. Killer is so much easier to play and new killers will always shred new survivors.
Edit: perhaps information basekits could be applied only to survivors that are not in a group. Should be easy enough to do.
I don't think it's a weak argument when other games have much better ways to report toxic behavior. Dbd reporting system would need a complete overhaul imo if they did VC and even then I don't think alot of ppl would even use it bc a lot of us just dont want to talk to some random ppl and run the risk of being called names and ect. I mean look at the bubba face thing that happened last year. Something that was pretty harmless and kinda cool had to be completely removed from the game bc ppl started using it to hurt ppl of color. So adding in-game VC imo would just add more problems than solving them. I could easily see someone calling a David player homophobic slurs or a Claudette the n-word. I think a ping system and a command wheel with set commands would be a much better option.
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@illumina said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298637#Comment_3298637
Went over my head because I ignored something simply as you stated? Agressive much? Adapt by playing to the meta or something that gives you a better chance at winning? If your whole point is to win win win then why don't you use tactics that's already favored to killers such as meta, tunnel, slug?
Inb4 "But survivors will complain about slugging/tunneling/camping", this isn't a survivor complaining about meta thread.
No one can force you how to play. If your goal is to have fun then do what makes it fun for you, if your goal is to win then do what makes it best for you to win? If you don't want to take a chance at the very rare occurrence of being dominated by a full SWF then play to the best method of winning.
Again my comment was toward the person who just said ppl need to adapt when playing against an swf. I'm not all about winning but if I'm against an swf with a nonmeta builds then I might as well just dc or not play bc I can tell you there no having "fun" if im not even going to have a fighting chance. I don't care if don't win all the time I really don't but if I can't even get hooks in and have fun chases where Im not compete outplayed then what's the point? Im not going to have fun either way. The fun matches are the close ones and that match that just used as an exp I wasn't having fun at all. I might have just not played at all and let them do 5 gens and leave.
I said it went over your head bc you miss my point which was saying "just adapt" isn't a good suggestion in a game that heavily favs the side that brings the best perks/items/addons and being in an swf.
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298568#Comment_3298568
That doesn't have a lot to do with SWF though. A solo player can see Enduring and start predropping. I do. If you're asking how a low tier killer with a non-meta build can compete with a fairly meta squad: why should they be able to? The game wouldn't be balanced at all if players could just run whatever they wanted on whoever they wanted and compete with the strongest build on the other side
I wasn't really talking about the other perks in my story, it was mostly the fact deadlock did nothing. As I said to @illumina my post was mostly toward the guy who just says "adapt" when in alot of cases a killer cant just adapt in a match. There no way for me to know if the group Im going against is a swf and using meta so the only way a killer can adapt is to think every match is going to be a sweat fest and be the best killer and perks to even compete in the match. It not even about winning but if I cant even finish chases or get hooks what's the point in even playing the match? I might as well dc and move to the next one in hopes I have a better time.
Again you both missing the point of my og comment. Shoot you both think I even agree is the OP which I don't. I dont think we should delete swfs from the game but I do think to even compete with an swf a killer has to bring the best stuff and be on A or higher tier killer. What I believe the game needs is to be soloq up closer to swf and buff the B and lower tier kilers up so they can compete against a group with comms. I also think the op killer perks and addons needs nerfing(ex: eruption, Alc ring, MD ring, and nurse's range addons) and the powerful survivor items (green medkits and toolboxs) need to be looked at. There are BS on both sides that the devs need to look at and fix to make this game fair and balanced for everyone no matter if their solo or a swf or a low tier killer.
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@illumina said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298568#Comment_3298568
You aren't going to go against very organized SWF often at all. Even so, other commentors have already said that the win ratio for killers is 50% in tournaments. Encountering those same players in SWF regular queue is going to be super rare.
I wonder how you deal with two flashlights and two toolboxes. Do you run Lightborn and Franklin's demise? If so, against SWF those are already deleted by them because they have no use for items.
Did I say anything about any of that in my post? Yes, I know you don't go against an swf all the time but the comment that I was commenting on said you have to adapt. You cant as a killer adapt on the fly against an swf, shoot sometimes you dont even know it's a swf till its to late. The only real way to adapt as killer for a swf is to think every match is going to be against a swf and run the best killer with the best addons and meta perks. That is the only way to "adapt" to swf. So you can't just tell a killer to adapt to an swf that was the main point in my post and clearly it went right over your head.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
"destroys the balance of the game"
Just because you have comms does not make the game unbalanced. That might have been true years ago, the game is a lot different today.
Adapt.
How do I adapt when an swf can completely delete one or more of my perks just bc they are on comms? The other day as a Freddy I was running Euduring, Sprit Fury, Hubris, and Deadlock. Deadlock did hardly anything, shoot I had two gens left and they were able to do those two gens at the same time. Completely countering Deadlock just bc they were able to talk to each other and time it that way. As for the other 3 perks I got one down with them and after that everyone just started pre-dropping pallets and playing things safe. On top of all this, they had CoH and a few green medkits. How do I adapt to this type of party when Im playing a low tier killer and not even running a meta build? Just telling someone to adapt doesn't do anything bc in a lot of cases you can't adapt unless you just want every killer to play a meta nurse or blight just in case they end up in an swf lobby. Then if that happens you just make soloQ lobbies even more painful.
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As a killer main I will say Eruption does need a change but not a full nerf tho. It is unfair to soloQ and does nothing against SWFs. The reason why I wont says it needs a full nerf is bc I'm afraid BHVR will take the Thana way in nerfing the perk which isn't good either. I rather see it changed like lowing the incap timer and rising the regression %, or removing the incap effect completely and replacing it with something different like a gift of pain-like effect. I just want the perk to be changed so it's not as painful for soloQ but stays useful. The thing I hate most is a perk being nerfed to the ground(like thana) just bc ppl cry for it to be nerfed.
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Just wanted to comment on a game I just had on Freddy. I felt like doing something different and fun so I went into the match with Spirit Fury, Enduring, Hubris, and Deadlock. Not the strongest build but I figure deadlock would be enough. Guess what...it wasn't. The Gens flew by bc it was swf I went against(they admitted it in the post-chat). Shoot the last two gens pop at the same time deleting my perk altogether. As for the rest of my perks, I only got one down thanks to Hubris. So yeah to those who complain about the gen-kicking builds and the slowdown meta, SWFs and teams I went against are reason why killers like freddy feel like they have to stack slowdown perks. I most likely never going to run just deadlock on freddy again and run two or more slowdown perks.
I know this off topic but I see ppl in this discussion and others complain about the meta as a whole and just wanted to show some light on how it is when you don't run a lot of slowdowns and you do run into a swf. It's not fun as a killer at all. That match was so unfun and when I saw deadlock was competed counter just bc it was sfw it felt bad. Here I thought I had some time to at least get one kill but proof it was gone. I said screw it and gave up after that and open the gates. Again yeah eruption needs change but I rather it stays strong and has more choices in slowdown instead one less. Plus eruption wouldn't had help in that match anyway since it was swf, wish I ran CoB or something else :-/
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@Zephinism said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/S6OWHI5EKJPT/screenshot-1534.png
I don't think I'll ever stop complaining about this boring meta. Set up 3 gen, barely chase. make the game take forever. 3k guarenteed.
Seems like it's always a knight tho and at that point, I think it's the fact BHVR made a really bad killer who is only good at setting up 3 gens camping. To me, all these posts and complaints didn't really start getting worst till the knight came out and I think that is because knights feel like the only way they can win is to do the 3 gen-kicking meta since its power is pretty useless outside camping 3 gens. Even if you nerf eruption that not going to stop the 3 gen camping stat for a knight or any other killer. They just run something else in the place of the eruption. I just know I didn't see this many complaints about 3 genning till this chapter.
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@Katzengott said:
The counter to Eruption in solo q is to pray you're mates don't go down as quick or in shot: hoping MMR works.
But even good solos are SUPPOSED to go down at some point, it's part of the gameplay!
Maybe we should accept that Euruption isn't supposed to get countered unless you can callout while playing with comms or you have line of sight of the chased surv. Maybe change Eruption and get rid of the Incapacitated Status Effect and buff gen regressing by a few % instead.
I would be down to get rid of the incap and rising the gen regressing a few % but at the same time doing that kinda makes it jolt with an extra step(kicking the gen). I also saw some saying remove the incap and just block the gen for x time but then that just makes the perk too much like the pain res + DMS combo. These are fine ideas but at the end of the day you just turning eruption into a perk or a combo perks that are already in the game right now. In my opinion, I think a better way to change it is to remove the incap like yall said but add an effect we don't see that much. That is make it so that anyone who is near the gen when it goes boom is hit with a slowdown debuff so they can repair or heal at a much slower rate. Yes, it is kinda like a gift of pain but it's the effect we don't see that often in the game I feel.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3295627#Comment_3295627
No, it was absolutely done for the killers, as evidenced by what they did. They didn't just make it 'once per hook stage' (60 seconds off a single perk), or 'once per perk per hook' (Max 90 seconds over 3 perk slots), they didn't give a compensatory duration buff (60 seconds off one perk), or any other solution that would've put a cap on it, they literally nerfed the perk in such a way that the damage to its anti-camp potential was maximised. (30 seconds and not a second more)
We both know devs don't work like that. When ppl complain about a perk or a perk being used in a bad way, they take the simplest route to nerf the perk. Look at Thana, when it was over buff with the 90sec gens and was being used on every killer their solution was to nerf it to ground and have it be useless on every killer. Eruption going to get the same treatment also I firmly believe. Anyway no I really don't think they changed Reassurance for killers. I was changed bc ppl used it to bully others believe it or not. If you don't that's fine, put your Lil tinfoil hat back on and continue to believe the devs are out to get survivor mains like yourself lol. Have a bless day sweetheart <3
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@Cassiopeiae said:
As killer you only depend on yourself. As a survivor other people's bs can screw you over. Of course killer is easier.
Also contrary to other people, I play killer to destress, really have no idea why so many people find it stressful.
Bc to some ppl hearing 2 to 3 gen popping back to back can be stressful since it makes them realize the time crunch they really are in. Also as a killer, you can feel every little mistake you make since you are by yourself and have no one else to rely on. One simple miss hit can mean that chase lasts another min and that's another gen lost. Also unlike survivor if you get stomped as a killer you can have 4 really toxic ppl in chat laughing and pointing at you, telling you bad at the game, and t-bagging you at the exit gate. At the end of the day, the killer may be the easier role but it is the most stressful bc you are by yourself and are under more time crunch then the survivors.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3294272#Comment_3294272
Certainly some truth to this, with how Reassurance was butchered before it could get to live to appease the campers.
Well, Reassurance was nerfed from PTB not bc of killers but for the fact it was used to bully a survivor on a hook by other survivors. There were cases in the PTB where survivors used the perk to prima keep a hooked survivor on the hook with no ability to escape or kill themselves. Those survivors didn't even attempt to save the hooked survivor either and just keep them on the hook the whole game. That is why Reassurance was changed.
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@Omans said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3295132#Comment_3295132
You missed one:
"we need posters like this with a clear bias to only one group of players in the game to relax their bias and think of the other people playing this game too."
Like, it's not even that what you said is wrong. Just completely one-sided.
Item reform? Yeah. Agreed. There are also a fair number of killer addons that are super unhealthy for the game. Just item reform, though? Ah, okay.
Map and pallet reform? Definitely!? Oh, looks like you are saying every map is only survivor sided, when many times maps form with absolutely nothing in many areas of the map.
So nice that you tacked on "and solo queue players" at the end though.
Come on. You've been around long enough to know how busted the game is for both sides. Stop with the one-sided bias (and don't pretend you aren't in many threads solely advocating for buffs to killers, all the while denying killers like Nurse are an issue).
Only replying bc I completely disagree with on the maps. The majority of the maps in this game are survivor sided and the fact most groups abuse those maps with map offerings to get an ez win shows you that. In this whole game, there is only one killer-sided map and that is midwich. So yes dbd does need a map reform so maps like crows, garden, cowshed, all the badham maps, and ect don't feel like hell on most killers that are not nurse. I will be happy to trade the one killer side map for more balanced maps. I can't tell you how many times I get sent to one of these maps every night since it happens so often.
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Deadlock is a completely fine perk tho for me I'm not a huge fan of it as a killer main. Mostly because for me it's hard to tell if Deadlock is having any meaningful impact on the match at all. Sometimes when I'm running it by itself on some killers gen still feel like they are done super fast and it didn't do anything at all. It may feel like that to me bc it's so passive of a perk that I forget Im running it sometimes. Either way, Deadlock is a fine perk imo.
Eruption on the other hand does have problems and needs a change. I just want the devs to change it in a way so it stays decently powerful and not go down the road they went with Thana(nerfing it to the point it's not worth running anymore).
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I still hate it tbh and still rather see 4 sprint bursts over 4 DHs. Mostly bc I don't like the whole waiting-it-out mindset. It's boring to have to rub yourself behind a survivor hoping they will dab soon. Also, I don't like how some animations override the DH animations like coughing from clown's bottles or PH trials. I really hate it in loops with pallets since it becomes a lose-lose situation for the killer. You either swing and hit the DH or don't swing and eat the pallet. Either way, the survivor is going to win and make it to another loop. That said I do agree it's better than old DH but that doesn't make it any more fun to go against or less annoying to deal with.
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@Hensen2100 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3293886#Comment_3293886
Survivors are not under a time crunch? That's quite a hot take. A couple missteps and the survivors can easily be the ones on the bad end of time crunches in DBD.
I would say post perk shakeup I see more variety than ever. Still plenty of meta slaves but also a pretty good amount of unique builds.
I also don't think killers are pigeonholed into builds like you will claim here. An early slowdown or two is more than sufficient on killers with a strong chase power. Pretty much any build is 2k worthy, which is a viable build
First of all survivors are not under the same stress and pressure for time as killers are. There are 4 survivors and only one killer. As killer chases one survivor the other 3 are doing gens in the background. If it's a bad map(which majority of maps in dbd are survivor sided) and the killer is a low tier killer (non blight or nurse) chases can last up to or more of a minute. That's a min of time where the other 3 survivors are doing gens uninterrupted. Before you say well injure and go after someone else. CoH and medkits have killed the hit and run strat in this game. A survivor can fully heal themselves before you can even get into a new chase. This is why you see a lot of killers running two or more slowdown perks bc time is very precious to a killer, more precious than a survivors time. Also a killer is going against 16 perks combined where survivors are only going against 4 perks. So yeah I wouldn't say the phase "killers are under a time crunch" is a hot take. You need to realize that all killers can't end chases as fast as a blight, nurse, or other high tier killers. Not all killers have chase powers.
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@RakimSockem said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3293387#Comment_3293387
Maybe it's just a mindset thing, but me and my friends DON'T bring the best. And I know that isn't representative of the community as a whole, but in general, I see a wide variety of non sweaty perks in use when I play both as survivor AND killer. When I say non-sweaty, I mean I run We'll Make, Any Means Necessary, Diversion, and Saboteur as my MAIN build. My back up build is Sabo, We'll Make It, For the People, WGLF.
But when I play killer and I main Huntress, I play BBQ, Iron Maiden, Darkness Revealed, and Lethal. And I do fine. Some games end in 2ks, the majority of them end with 3. You don't HAVE to play the most meta perks at all times is my point and while yes, those perks all work well for Huntress specifically, there's no gen regression in my build. My gameplay is reliant solely upon my skill in chase and my ability to find people quickly and get those hits. If I lose, I know it's because of my lack of skill and if I win, I know it's because I played well. Not because some perks carried me and stopped people from getting their objectives done FOR me
For Huntress, I use something like that but with deadlock as my slowdown and I do pretty well also. Do you play any other killer with no slowdown? Like Onryo, Mayers, or Doc? Those killers if you don't have any slowdown its painful as hell. You cannot down ppl fast enough and the gens are done so fast bc ppl group up or use toolboxes/hyperforce builds. I think Huntress is one of the few killers in this game that can get by with little to no slowdown since she can down ppl fairly fast, especially with info perks. M1 killers have to run some kinda slowdown since all they have in chase is their base attack and mindgames. That is just my opinion tho. If you do play those types of killers with no slowdown and get a 2 to 3k then my hat's to you, you a better killer than I.
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No matter what they do you will always see slowdown perks being used bc if killers don't bring some kinda slow down the gens fly by and they end up with no kills or little to no hooks. As long as survivors continue to bring their best items and perks to win killers will do the same, especially lower-tier killers. Not every killer is a nurse or blight that can down ppl fast enough to keep up with gen speeds.