BlueHorkew
BlueHorkew
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@Spectralfx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3361781#Comment_3361781
It worked well, Survivor just complain and it got reverted.
I am still waiting for them to revert Eruption but they don't revert changes for killers ever.
What got reverted?
Also, they reverted the regression change of Eruption.
What are you talking about?
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Lol, love that argument xD
I am sold
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@philward1953 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3361992#Comment_3361992
We must have had different experiences playing against old DH. Good players used it for distance, but let's be honest half the survivor player base isn't fairly good. Most survivors I went against basically used old DH just like they're using new DH.
I also feel like the idea of bringing back the distance aspect makes it more like the other exhaustion perks, which all give you distance under specific circumstances. Sadly DH is the only one that simply requires a button to be pressed to work.
I think people would catch on pretty quick after a change like that tho.
Similar to how people slowly learned how to use the new DH better.
In the end, there is no counter to free distance for most killers. Especially M1 killers, which would be the ones getting hit hard by that change, while top tier killer would be buffed by the lost of invulnerability.
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@Chiky said:
DH is easy to fix with "Dead Hard activates for 10/13/15 seconds after you get hit". And the rest of the time it's off
That is kinda counter productive.
Good survivors won't need it because they won't be caught after 15 seconds and bad survivors won't be able to time DH to begin with. So the perk does nothing besides BMing a killer
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@philward1953 said:
Okay, my idea is to bring back the old DH where you'd get distance, BUT, a killer would be able to hit you as you're dashing.
I remember that was always the thing that peeved me off the most. A survivor could just turn to me a dash through my swing without being hurt.
Of course a survivor would still get exhausted.
Also, the distance would only be about 2/3 of what old dead hard actually gave you, meaning that a survivor would only be able to use it to only get a slight bit of distance in chase. This would make it so even if a survivor used DH right in front of a killer, they could lunge and down them. No more avoiding lunges.
To summarize:
- Survivors can use DH to dash 2/3 of what old DH would give them.
- Survivors would still get exhausted
- A killer can still down a survivor mid-dash, forcing them to use it to gain a little distance in chase and not some third health state or crazy juke.
- No more avoiding lunges since the distance of the dash is decreased.
- You CANNOT DH over bear-traps or hag-traps, Pyramid Head's trail, etc. without them giving you their respective effects and such.
NEW Perk Desc.
Activate-able Perk.
You can take a beating.
When Injured, tap into your adrenaline bank and dash forward quickly to give yourself some time.
- Press the Active Ability button while running to dash forward.
Dead Hard causes the Exhausted Status Effect for 60/50/40 seconds
Dead Hard cannot be used when Exhausted.
I'll post this is suggestions after people give their two-cents. Things may change obv. because of suggestions.
You know most people didn't use old DH to dodge lunges right?
That wasn't the good part of the perk, that was more of nice bonus.
What most people realized is that you could use DH to get distance to a pallet or window for free. You are bringing that back. I don't know how that would go.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
Honestly, I do not see the point in running Myers over a Killer like Ghostface since Ghostface has built in stealth (with Undetectable) and 60 second Exposed similar to Myers, and has the ability to get downs more consistently. I think Myers just needs something a bit extra to help them stand out but also make them seem more threatening.
I personally think Myers should have some changes to help him out:
- Base Exposed duration increased from 60 seconds to 80 seconds.
- The amount of stalk that is needed to reach Tier 2 Evil Within has been decreased by 30%.
- The base amount of stalk that can be pulled from a Survivor is doubled.
- When a Survivor is fully stalked, they become mori-able.
- Reworked tombstone addons (decreases the base amount of stalk needed to pull before a Survivor becomes mori-able, but mori becomes only applicable to a limited amount of Survivors based on addon rarity); rework other addons (stalk speed addons also increase the total amount of stalk that can be pulled from a Survivor, providing some sort of drawback and benefit); etc.
Myers has a very outdated and simple design. Buffing him is kinda tricky.
Ghostface is basically the same concept (Stealth, stalking, exposed killer) but better in everyway for both sides.
In the end Myers is just a stats killer, doesn't really offer counter play or fun experience for survivors, besides him being Myers or jumpscares
Ghostface, survivors can interact with it and manipulate stuff.
Because Myers lacks so much stuff and is a stats bot. I guess he can become very problematic for lower level survivors while being super easy to play himself.
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@dbd_ideas_guy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3361931#Comment_3361931
Light is the opposite of darkness. The entity is a dark being. It makes total sense that they could be countered by light.
I guess? If you are experienced with the lore of the game. Most people will just think its a weird quirck.
My biggest problem is just that the effect is perk dependent, gen blocking isn't a basekit mechanic. So i don't know if adding a counter to certain perks in a basekit item is a good idea
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@dbd_ideas_guy said:
- Upon shining a flashlight for a short period of time on a generator that is blocked by the entity, that generator's block duration is reduced by a certain amount.
- The amount of time required to trigger this effect and the amount of gen block time taken off could be dependant on the rarity of the flashlight, or behaviour could also introduce addons that affect this effect instead, or grant this ability in the first place.
- An effect like this would be good if the killer is using perks such as dead man's switch, deadlock, or merciless storm. It would also counter other gen blocking perks that behaviour releases in the future.
Thoughts?
What about a blindness effect where you can't see auras or scratch marks for like 3 seconds after the blinding. This effect could be extanded with add-ons.
I don't know, i just don't think flashlights and gen blocking have much of a thematic to be related
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@sanees said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3361786#Comment_3361786
Otz killer main, nice joke otz said that the game is a map of killers because it's hard for survivors to find a generator
any player with 10+ hours in the game already knows all generator spawns
so please ask the opinion of real killer main like tru3ta1ent
The guy so toxic, even bhvr took him out of the fogwhisper program?
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@PowZapBamWoofMeow said:
I still don’t get why killers need a perk for this.
Why can’t killers just raise their other, non-knife wielding arm or hand over their eyes and just suffer with a movement penalty?
There are spare buttons on consoles not assigned to actions I’m pretty sure (like square or triangle on PS) and plenty of available keys on PC.
Just a thought!
Look up or down or face a wall when picking up. It's not that hard?
Flashlights are already one of the riskiest and worst items for survivors to bring. Do you want more med-kits and toolboxes in your games?
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@philward1953 said:
Why haven't the devs reduced it?
It's things like these that make the playbase hate them.
Because the map just has to many flawed designs.
Has so many pallets, but even still has a good kill rate for killers for many other factors.
And you have OG the game, it had less pallets, it was the most killer sided map in the game at the time.
Unfortunately the map is just not fun or well designed for either side.
I guess just breath before going there, or go there for the funny pallet breaking build. Because, ultimately there are many other maps the devs should look for changes before the Game
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@Spectralfx said:
Top tier idea...
Nerf gen time and maybe killer will not be REQUIRED to tunnel to even stand a chance, just saying...
Then killers will just tunnel with extra time.
I know that tunnel is required sometimes to get the win, but this idea that killers will stop doing it just by getting more time is absurd.
What if you played bad, got destroyed and lost a ton of gens because you committed to a 3 min chase. Will the killer really not tunnel because they think the game was fair.
If the game allows for something to be abused, it will be abused.
If tunneling is the easiest way to win, then why will people stop just because others got easier and didn't nerf tunneling?
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Captura de ecrã 2023-03-05, às 00.07.28.png@Chadku said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3361420#Comment_3361420
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/J4BY5QLA2FYH/grafik.png
DS doesn´t need to be buffed, just use DH or OTR/basekit BT for your get out of jail for free card.
Are you really that thick?
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@bunnyfengenthusiast said:
Dear lord, the takes you read in this forum...
OTR is currently the best survivor perk in the game. You can make it out of any deadzone and to a safe pallet, and you can bait the killer into an unproductive tunnel when paired with DS, another very strong perk.
Picture the following: killer chases me for first chase, 3 gens get done. I go down, killer hooks and decides to proxy camp because he has 1 hook and 2 gens left. Teammate unhooks unsafely, killer decides to tunnel. Can't wait out BT because I have OTR. Takes an M1 because he has to. I run to a very strong area of the map and greed pallets until I go down. Killer picks up, I hit DS with 10 seconds left to spare, I slap killer with it and I start predropping pallets. Killer is about to down me and hits DH. Last gen pops because this entire tunnel cost him 2+ minutes. I'm now on final hook with all teammates on 0 hooks and gates are 99.
Do you think those perks are still bad? Anyone who can't get value from OTR DS is a terrible looper, sorry to say.
Ok, new situation then:
Play nurse, get a down at 5 gens, proxy camp and hit survivor as soon as he gets unhooked, gets the down get hit by DS, and nurse can immediately blink back to me instantly, because i got 8m of distance from it. Down again and now on death hook.
Yeah sure off the record has uses, but not for tunneling or hard tunnel. And the perk reveals itself for the killer.
So no i don't agree that the anti tunnel perks are good right now, because they loose for hard tunneling (off the record) or to high tier killers that can't give you enough distance (DS)
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@Chadku said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3361303#Comment_3361303
Difference is that DS' 5s stun was there to counter Enduring.
So not overnerfed but rather "let's finally undo that one buff we did to counter Enduring"
That is wrong. DS launched with a 5 second stun. But back in the day Enduring used to reduce the DS stun.
DS was changed many times, some of them where to the stun time. And some versions made the perk bad.
Eventually enduring got reworked to not work against DS and DS got his stun locked to 5 seconds
Until the 6.1 patch.
Its not good with this current stun. Some killers can literally ignore it and down you in 3 seconds, like nurse and blight. Because survivors can't move for more than the 1st second of the stun animation. The distance you gain is very minimal.
And of course you don't see killers afraid of it. I am not afraid of it when playing killer, even when its really obvious when a survivor has it. I don't feel punished, i am not afraid of it. It honestly feel empowered taking that stun, while before i was afraid and needed to be very careful to not pick up the same guy or knew the risk if i resorted to tunnel someone.
DS is weak. A perk like DS shouldn't make me happy to get hit by it, thats how i know that the perk was hit way to hard
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@NITRAS42 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3360989#Comment_3360989
I play mostly 2nd tier killers (knight, most recently, Demo). When I did play Nurse. . . . I got just good enough to be mostly proficient.
I guess I don’t see survivors struggling much against me. Only when they get butthurt and DC on first hook.
3 seconds is 12 meters, which the killer can catch up in 7 seconds if everyone goes a straight line. Can’t you get to a tile in 7 seconds?
The problem is that for the first second of stun the survivor can't move.
And for killers like nurse and blight there is just no time. They get to you instantly
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@qwertyuiopz666 said:
Why make DS unavailable at crucial times especially when you get sweats like that ruins the whole fun of the game wouldn’t of helped anyways cause she was tunnelling all game but that’s me and dbd done ######### dbd it’s #########
I think you might need a break. This game can really make you rage and loose all cool.
Honestly, i need to play with friends to not go insane sometimes. But take a break. I do hope that the next patch which will be focused on perk changes will bring a buff to DS. Well, i am hopeful at least.
But don't expect DS to be active in end game. As killer it was really ######### having survivors getting unhooked and just trolling me at the end game because i couldn't pick them up or slug them because all gens were already done and the survivor was invincible, he just wanted to rub it in, waste my time and teabag. DS at the end game can be abused way to much because the killer lost all other possible objective or pressure for it to fair.
I really just want the 5 second stun to be back and punish tunneling
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@buffsadako said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3360964#Comment_3360964
Really? Damn I thought you could DH in deep wound. My bad, I swear I thought you could. I suppose DS + DH would be better, or SB + OTR.
That did work on the 6.1 ptb, but that never made live servers. No problem xD
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@NITRAS42 said:
DS is fine like it currently is. It isn’t as powerful as it used to be. . . It doesn’t need to be.
Against maybe half the cast. But against killers like Nurse, blight, spirit, huntress etc... The perk might as well do nothing. 2 seconds of stun, because the first second the survivor can't move is just not enough distance
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@buffsadako said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3360933#Comment_3360933
You have to wait to use Dead Hard before you tank a hit with OTR. If you wait for the killer to hit you with OTR, you still have Dead Hard up to use. So you would have 2 endurance effects. You can't use DH before you tank a hit with OTR.
Dude, no. If you have deep wound effect, the endurance won't protect you from going down. The only effect that protects you is Mettle of man.
The order doesn't matter.
What people use is combine those two with DS to remove the Deep wound effect and let you use DH.
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@qwertyuiopz666 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3360853#Comment_3360853
yeah that’s what I mean otr is just plain bad I am good In chase to and try my best for the team but honestly I’ve gotten to the point where when they tunnel I just dc when a killer commits to a survivor for multiple gens then just won’t leave them alone all game cause they made that mistake and I don’t dc when I get tunnelled once btw this is b2b multiple times a day and it’s just draining what am I meant to do especially with strong chase killers ds is just a joke to killers now and it’s bad that killers feel like they can tunnel with no consequences there is no what if they have ds now they just pick up lol and it’s just very dry gameplay
Just revert the timer back to 5 seconds. Its easy and solves the issue. Off the record was only a good anti tunnel perk when endurance stacked in the ptb. That was good change, but the perk is just pointless now.
Its a bodyblocking perk for killers that play nice at best. Great design, punish killers that play nice, but tunnels are still free
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@Skill_issue said:
you just hit a survivor and they arent even hindered by the hit in anyway?
They are injured and go down next hit. What more do you want? They need to be more careful, can't make aggressive plays while injured, high risk versus stealth killers that can get close.
If you want sloppy, run sloppy. Its a great perk on a lot of killers
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@qwertyuiopz666 said:
Why is decisive strike 3 seconds I get chased off hook all the time just to use my DS to get downed a second later unless I’m literally a arms reaching distance from a pallet otr is useless cause of basekit bt If killers tunnelling to win is a STRAT and not cheap why punish us and take away the only thing preventing it when the perk changes happen next mid chapter I hope the devs have a look at this perk because ever since the nerf id say 70% of my games are getting tunnelled out and the fact you can only use it once and it turns off when the gens are done it’s pathetic excuse for a perk now
Is it kinda sad that it still is the best anti tunneling perk in the game. Even after the nerf.
Because Survivors have no good anti tunnel perks.
Because who cares about off the record, you are hit them in the BT timer anyway. And the perk reveals itself to the killer by the noise removal.
DS is kinda bad, but survivors also have no other options. Just hope you are good in chases to make the killer waste too much time to win i guess.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/366628/new-killers-problem-of-risk-reward
I think skull merchant changes will be net-nerf because 1 person can just disable all drones near generators. they gave skull merchant a tracker but you will only be able to track 1 survivor. their single negative change outweighs all their positive changes.
I don't think most survivors will be wasting time disabling all her drones like you do trapper, just disabling the ones they need and leave the others light up an area or something. I don't think it will be that big of a deal.
I think they made that change because of the higher battery life buff, to ensure she can't lock out 3 gens with drones, especially if its a 3v1 by that time
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@Desteriaa said:
So since tunneling has been a really big issue lately I’ve been thinking of perks that could help with the issue from both killers and survivors side..
for survivors:
Once a survivor is unhooked this perk is activated for 60 seconds (is automatically deactivated once they are fully healed, do a conspicuous action and when the exit gates are powered) if you get in chase with the killer again within those sixty seconds the killer recieves 5-10 second stun and you lose all grunts of pain, blood pools, and scratch marks and you move at 150% movement speed for 5 seconds. Once used the survivor suffers from the broken status effect for 60 seconds. its only a one time use. This allows the survivor to get away and make distance and the killers receive a harsher punishment for tunneling.
for killers:
Once you have hooked every one at least once this perk will activate (will not activate if a survivor is dead). When this perk is Activated Every survivor suffers from the incapacitated status effect for 40-45 seconds. This allows the killer to have more time to turn the game in their in favor and it rewards them for getting hooks. (This perk can only be used once)
Let me know your thoughts about this below!
They are both really bad perks, in terms of design.
Survivor, this is DS on crack. Survivors would literally run at the killer to initiate a chase with them or go and protect a team mate with this effect. Its completely busted and unfair
Killer, this is just grim embrace but more unfun for the survivors. Its a perk that makes you not play the game for almost a minute and a killer can still just camp to secure trades and gets this perks value. Perks like grim embrace need to get value sooner or have different rewards, not increase the unfun of the perk once it activates.
I think they are both very unhealthy for the game, even tho they have good intentions.
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@EmpireCity830 said:
Let me start off with saying that I am a killer main, (Blight, Spirit) but have played a ton more survivor over the last few months. When the new hud update came out for survivor it was a welcome change to buff solo queue. Solo queue needed it. But now that it has been out a month or so I've noticed some things that have me worried. First, for my region killer queue has the incentive for most of the day nowadays. This means (I think, correct me if I'm wrong) that there are less killers playing than survivors. Second, games in general have been a lot sweatier and WAY more stressful for killer. Survivors have gotten a lot better at looping and gens are faster than they've ever been. I think the general strat now is to each solo a gen and have 2-3 pop by the time a killer has found, chased, downed and hooked 1 survivor. Most games for me in both roles get to endgame with maybe 1 person dead if that. I feel like I am a lot worse of a killer than I actually am. I have just over 2k hours in this game and I have never had to deal with sweaty matches like this consistently every game. I feel like as the killer every decision needs to be perfect. Chases need to be 30 sec or less otherwise I lose the game. I can't waste time looking for people in the beginning and I can't try out new builds or experiment with some builds on my killers cause the game will be over before I have a chance to do anything. <- This point really makes me sad. I don't want to run slowdown every game but I feel like it is necessary now with how hard it is to get downs, hooks and kills. It takes less than 10 mins to pop 5 gens now so if you don't run slowdown you need to end chases really quick. Which is hard to do with survivors been so much better than before.
I genuinely think that most of the community has quit killer and I understand why. I need survivors to screw up in matches for me to get kills cause even in games where I play really well I might only get 2 kills. I literally had a game the other day where I got 9 hooks, 9!! and only 1 kill. Killer is really frustrating right now, I would even say unplayable.
I feel like there needs to be a mechanic that passively slows the game down for killer. Like have a mini Gift of Pain effect be basekit. This won't happen though cause the player base will complain that the Nurses, Blights, and Spirits are even stronger with this kind of change. The fact that this is the reason for not buffing killers is ridiculous. If you go against these killers all day then you are a pretty good player who is at high MMR. The rest of the player base deals with the weaker, more useless killers.
What do others think? I am the only one noticing this? Am I crazy? Do I sound like a salty killer main?
I would love to know.
About survivors getting better, i agree. I think that after the 6.1 update, most survivors got a wake-up call for how bad we actually were at survivor. I am including myself in this. After the update i think most survivor started learning how to loop and improve your skills, learn about time efficiency on gens and overall got more sweaty and less, let's f* around mindset, because the game demanded more of them and it was necessary to do.
It doesn't help with how "snowbally" Dbd is. Survivors if they cranck gens fast before you have put enough pressure put the killer in such a disadvantage, but if a survivor also makes one mistake it can kill an entire team. There are so many games where i know i played bad or was getting destroyed, but some survivor made a stupid thing and i got a 4K, i sure as hell didn't feel strong as the killer playing that match, but i got a 4k
Also the power level between the top tiers and low tier killers is so big that, yeah making wide changes are very dangerous and need to be very well though out, thats why they are very rare.
Also, for my region Bp incentives just fluctuate a lot, it used to be survivor locked the whole day, but now you can get about 2 to 3 hours at the end of the day of killer incentives, but then starts going to survivor again
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@Devil_hit11 said:
Survivor perk ideas
Lock & loaded
Upon dropping a pallet, Press active ability 1 button to place a flash mine on the corresponding stand pallet that has been dropped for 40 seconds. A killer that finishes breaking the pallet will be stunned for 1 additional second after completing the break action and will be blinded for 1 seconds.
Lock & Loaded causes the exhausted status effect for 60/50/40 seconds.
Lock & loaded cannot be used when Exhausted.
Hindsight:
When a survivor let go of a generator, Hindsight suppresses your Scratch Marks for 3/4/5 seconds.
Silent walking:
Increases footstep sounds of the killer by 30%/40%/50%.
Decreases survivors footstep sounds by 15%/20/25%
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Killer perk idea:
Trembling fear:
Upon successfully completing a generator in a 64/96/128 meter radius, the survivors that completed the generator loses 1 health-state. If the survivor is injured, the survivor suffers from deep wound status effect.
Malfunction:
Each time a survivor is rescued from a hook when you are at least 24 meters away. Malfunction activates for next 35/40/45 seconds.
The next survivor put into the dying state will apply an automatic kick action to the nearest generator within 32 meters of the current killer location and begin regressing the generator.
Malfunction deactivates after damaging a Generator or when its timer expires.
Keen Ingenuity:
The presence of technology excites you.
Generator within 8 meters grant 5%/8%/10% haste bonus for 5 seconds when outside of a chase. This effect cannot be triggered when a survivor is within 20 meters near a generator.
Wait, you altered lock and Loaded effect. Cool, yeah i do agree now that the perk would be useful and cool if you can use it immediately on a dropped pallet. I just have question, you become exhausted when you plant the trap or when the killer breaks the pallet?
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@MTA said:
Here lately I’ve been thinking of numerous different changes that can be made in the game, especially for perks/items that make generator repairs faster for survivor, and generator slowdowns/regression perks (and stacking) can be one of the few most frustrating and boring things to go against.
Brand New Part sometimes isn’t that bad to go against unless you run into 2 or more and the teams you face are consistent with their gameplay. I don’t run onto that many bnp’s much but when i do it can make generators ridiculously too quick sometimes (and i know it’s been nerfed quite a few times), so with that, this is my idea of changing it that could maybe be less stressful to go against and without making it too useless too.
Brand New Part: While performing the repair action with your toolbox, pressing the Secondary Action will set that generator to Auto-Repair.
While the generator is auto repairing itself, these effects will be applied to that generator:
- The Auto Repair Speed is reduced by 100%.
- After 60 seconds of Auto Repair, the repair speed will increase and start repairing at it’s original speed
- After 120 seconds of Auto Repair, the repair speed will increase by 100%
- Survivors do not have the ability to repair that generator while it is auto repairing itself.
- The Generator’s Aura will be revealed to all Survivors with a Blue Aura (or some other different colored aura so survivors know it was a bnp that was used.
- The Killer can also see it’s Aura but only within a limited range (something small like 8 or 12 meters so it also gives the killer some information of it) or maybe give the information to the killer a different way, instead of an aura, the generator starts shooting out sparks instead.
The Generator will stop Auto Repairing itself if the killer causes that Generator to start regressing.
Upon using a Brand New Part will consume your toolbox and any other addon you have with it on use.
I would like BNP to become an anti slowdown tool. Basically locking a gen to 50% at minimum and can't regress past that by any means.
I do think that BNPs are the biggest offender for gen rushing, so i would love the tool to become an anti slowdown tool instead of a gen rushing tool
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@wydyadoit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3360528#Comment_3360528
i disagree with the assumption that it wouldn't be healthy for the game. as long as there is an equal balance solution (a perk to rebuild a pallet) and any means necessary... i think it could work.
and sure it might become a resource war, but that's what totems are?
It would be oppressive when one of the sides doesn't have access or didn't bring the perk. I think perks like blood favor, dissolution and spirit fury are healthier concepts because survivors can interact and are not a remove a resource you choose button.
The concept is just way to game changing for a perk. Some people already think perks in general are way to strong, that perks dictate more how a match plays than your killer's power. This perk seems like that, but even more pronounced.
Any means is ok in my opinion because the killer can break the pallet at any time, a survivor can't guarantee the re use of it. But just like i don't agree with this perk, i don't agree with a rebuild pallet perk for survivors. Resource managing is just way to important to give a perk that messes with that balance. Any perk like that needs to be very careful because the consequences are really massive
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3360323#Comment_3360323
But it's not forgiving? The latest buff doesn't even totally make up for if you take time to go place a long patrol.
Like, his power is a zoning tool. And whilst it has a short cooldown between uses, it's one that goes offline for reasonably long periods of time when in use (if distracting someone or camping something) and forces another cooldown where you can't move if you have to cancel it (attack CD), and if you can't go out of your way for that, you already have no power.
Like, a lot of these won't really make him any easier to defeat, they just make it worse for the knight player. No zoning off short loops (instant spawn of banner), longer cooldown if you already screwed up and the guard was out of commission, longer cooldown on banner pickup is either irrelevant (you're in a chase with that person) or just annoying as you're doing something else, everything about hook restrictions being clunky, etc.
(also he can't cancel power, he has to walk back the path, that's real weird)
The cooldown is short, but it's a power that has a chunky time investment already, and a lot of powers are pretty short like that and restricted somehow--charges, miss CD's, limited placement. We're in the latter category.
3genning without eruption's going to be way less effective, wait for that before going "how can we neuter the ability to play the character in order to make a zoning killer as weak as possible when everyone gets confined?" That's the scenario he or Hag or Trapper are meant to be strong. They're not chase killers.
I don't agree with your take. I do think his power is very forgiving and safe to use. I do think that his power has basically no reward, yes.
But its also very safe and easy to use because survivors can't really punish you for using the power bad. Which bhvr has even been making him even more safe with patches.
For example, Wesker is way stronger than Knight, i think we all know that. His power is very effective around certain loops and has the right amount of slowdown, map mobility and anti loop. But it has a long cool down and if mess up, aka survivors mind game you, you can loose so much time and effort, you can go flying way from them, survivors can make you vault stuff you don't want. Survivors can really make you pay for messing up.
Knight is not like that, his power is a time waster or a IQ test , because survivors can't really do anything to punish you, but your power is also very weak and survivors just hold W against you.
Yes, if you make him have counter play for survivors, his reward should be bigger. I think we all agree with that.
Big reward and big risk. A killer is not really exciting to watch or play if there is no risk to what you do in my opinion.
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@MoNosEmpire said:
It would be interesting to see a killer perk which allows them to drop pallets at any time, once every 45 seconds.
A situation where this would be interesting, a survivor is looping a pallet and the killer drops the pallet while the survivor doesn't expect it, forcing them to take an M1 at the very least.
I don't feel like it would be interesting, it just feels like a perk you would spam on the best pallets in a match so you never have to deal with them.
With dbd being such a resource managing for survivors, giving killer an access to remove them by force or survivors a way to rebuild them would be really messy.
By the same logic survivor should be able to rebuild destroyed pallets, in the end those perks aren't really interactive, they just become resource wars on the perks. Probably not healthy for the game.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3360336#Comment_3360336
Ideally you want to strive to have both sides enjoying the content in the game, right? I don't think that's an unfair expectation and again this thread is NOT "Knight boring Knight bad" it's "People have issues with this Killer, what could be changed to fix it?".
I think "Fun" is poor indicator of that, even tho Dead by Daylight is a horror movie simulator. People DO NOT like to get hunted, smashed and killed in this game. But it happens cause that is how this game is played. We definitely need to question those feeling ALOT more.
One could simply chalk it down to taste and call it that.
You say this yourself and then back down from the idea without really giving a good reason why.
Why isn't it a taste thing then? Why cant we just chalk it up to taste? Why must Knight be changed now? Can you answer this?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3360360#Comment_3360360
I am gotten complaints about Killer being boring on every Killer I have ever played so where are these Killers which are fun?
Your following argument is 1. makes them interesting and 2. maybe being more interesting can make them stronger, which is really cool if that happens. But it would be an absolute terror if it failed and bHVR screwed up and ruined the Killer for years before a Rework in 2026.
Case is we have seen Killers such a Deathslinger which was nerfed to address an unfun strategy and after that his player numbers dropped, waste of my money really. Playing him any other way is too hard and bHVR is slow to react to make the Killers inviting to players.
The only way is to take it EVEN slower with Killer changes cause we need to make sure we don't end up with another Dead Deathslinger. That way we can make sure bHVR does not render the Killers unfun for Killers as well and when we do that I certainly think people need to come to the discussion table with more than, "its not fun"
What i define as fun and exciting, i would say Power with risk.
Killers that are strong, can do impressive plays, but are heavily punished if they are outplayed. Wesker, Blight, Billy, deathslinger, Piramid Head, i know some are stronger than others but the idea is common. They can do plays that survivors need to be aware, they have strong mind games and let players express their skill. But survivors can make them pay hard if they are not on point. Because in the end, if something is very safe, its not very impressive.
I see Knight as the killer that just makes everyone waste time, he wastes survivors and his time. Most plays are decided by map layout and give very little input for both sides to do anything. The survivor will waste the killer's time by holding W and the killer will waste the survivor time because there was never really other option to begin. Everything feels like you have only two choices, he feels uninteractable.
Ultimately Knight's issues are very hard to solve with his current kit and identity and i don't expect him to be addressed for a long time for multiple reasons.
But i love this discussions because i hope bhvr starts to actually keep a more fun philosophy for designing killers.
So yes, i do believe that punishing a killer and giving counterplay is important for him to be fun. And like the OP and i said before, he would need other changes to buff him in other areas. If survivors can fight him easier, than he should get better reward for his power. Its really just a discussion of philosophy of design and trying to make both sides enjoyable
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Meh, it's an online game, so there is some toxicity.
But a lot of people are pretty shill and funny xD
Also, yeah the whole gimmick of the cages is that they don't trigger any hook effects for either side. So its probably gonna stay that way for consistency
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@Brokenbones said:
So this is just a random thread I wanted to make to jot down ideas pertaining to the state of The Knight and how to make him more enjoyable to face from a survivor POV.
This isn't to say that I think the Knight is OP by any stretch, there's a difference between a killer being too strong vs a killer simply not providing much of an enjoyable experience even when defeated in a trial. This isn't meant to be a thread complaining about Knight either, just a list of random ideas of things I think would make him more enjoyable to face without neutering why the people who like and enjoy him do to begin with
Feel free to post your own ideas or critque other ideas in this thread, as this is nothing more then an idea bucket for discussion!
So in no particular order, here are some random ideas I've had
(Also worth noting I don't think any/all of these ideas should be added at once):
- Pallet stunning The Knight whilst a hunt is ongoing will end the hunt prematurely - Some people might ask why this is a suggested idea. Quite simple really, you have an anti-loop power but if you're stuck in a tile due to being zoned, the Killer should be punished for making a mistake and getting stunned.
- Increase the cooldown on Knight's power if his guards do not engage in a hunt or an order - This change comes from the rationale that Knight's main way of defending 3 gen scenarios is to keep spamming his power at them over and over, the incredibly short cooldown (3 seconds) means there is no downside to doing this strat.
- Remove the endurance status effect from picking up the banner and instead make it increase the Knight's power cooldown by a certain amount (Which could have addons that lessen its effect). - This again is meant to counteract the playstyle of having Guards pester survivors in a 3 gen, right now if you pick up the banner during a hunt all you're really doing is just letting Knight have his power back faster (In these scenarios)
- Give Knight the Artist/Dredge/Twins treatment and disable his power around hooked survivors. Not a huge radius, just on par with the Killers who have built in anti-camping measures.
- Standardise the Banner activation time across all 3 guards. Right now Carnifex has the property of the Banner takes 10 seconds to materialise instead of 5.
- Alternatively, have the banner activation time tie in to the patrol path (Aka shorter path = quicker banner spawn time and vice versa maybe)?
- Increase the minimum patrol path length, but make cancelling power slightly faster.
I'll probably add more if I can think of any, again don't take this thread as me blindly demanding Knight be nerfed or anything to that nature. I know many people don't enjoy vsing him and I'd like to see that improve in some way.
I like most of these ideas, they feel like reasonable changes to give him some amount of counter play and punish a bad player.
He probably would need also some buffs in other areas, but any suggestions and ideas to increase interactive elements of the game are great.
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@Emeal said:
Why DOES a Killer have to be fun to play against for Survivors?
"Sorry, you cant murder me right now, cause I'm not having fun while being chased."
I fear I have heard people in this Community use the word fun so much I don't know what it actually means anymore.
Because we have a ton of killers that are fun for both sides. Its good for the health of the game, makes a killer more interesting because you can give him more pronounced strength and weaknesses that can be played around.
Or i guess you can keep him the snooze fest that he is by camping 3 gens and making survivors hold W because you can't do anything against him and he can't do anything against survivors holding W. AKA, no one wins.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3360157#Comment_3360157
I do not agree. healing takes 16 seconds and with current iterations of med-kits. healing is relatively fast.
Its an insane reward for doing nothing. An exposed effect would still need balancing but would be ok. Free hits is no go. There are no perks that do damage for you and we really shouldn't go there.
That perk has lethality and slowdown on a single perk with no requirements and by doing nothing. Combine this perk with tinkerer and you are making gens death sentences. Just absolutely not.
Unless you give me the perk "Gun" for me to shoot the killer xD. Because this is the level of absurdity we are reaching
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@Jace233 said:
It seems like this game has become more frustrating over time with all the heavy nerfs and changes that incentivize boring gameplay. I will list everything wrong with DBD and my proposed solution, in order of importance.
1) The map design is frankly awful and probably the worst thing about DBD overall. Some of them all but guarantee a killer win while most are full of god pallets/loops that cannot be anything other than a pallet breaking simulator from the killers POV. It seems the original maps are the most balanced, and the newer ones are straight up terrible.
The solution is to remove long-hall/elevated areas with CLEAR LINE OF SIGHT that just take too long for the killer to apprehend a survivor. Like RPD, the 2 story area in grave of glenvale main building, ormund 2nd floor of main building, garden of joy window vaults (remove all of them from the houses or make them connect far closer to an exit from the house), etc.
Unfortunately the one map that did multiple floors very well was the old Demogorgon map, because you had no line of sight to where the killer was coming from, or if he was coming at all before he catches up to you. DBD devs, you really have to remove line of sight if you make difficult to access areas, otherwise its just a scooby doo chasing simulator.
2) Generator and healing speeds - You cannot keep making perks that boost these speeds, because they are already too fast as is.
Prove thyself is like a reverse hex-pentimento with no other condition except you are next to someone. It needs a massive nerf because it is frankly busted whether you believe it or not. It should grant a 5% (down from 15%) speed boost to each person.
Boon COH and medkits need to be changed entirely. Both medkits and COH should no longer allow self-healing in any form. They should only increase the speed of healing others, while COH can grant the 50% speed boost and broadcast your aura to every other survivor so they can come and heal you.
Commodius toolbox should be toned down a bit in its long-term efficiency. Just by the numbers change along with prove thyself will help quite a bit.
3) Killer Nerfs/Killer Design - This is maybe not the worst decision you have made regarding DBD balance, but it IS the most unfun one, and really made the game overall lame and miserable to play. You keep doing nerfs to killers/addons that completely limit creative expression in the killer roster. Deathslinger can't insta-fire, Hillbilly cant use saw to mindgame, etc.
And pretty much every new killer you have designed since Artist has zero skill ceiling whatsoever. She is probably your best designed killer by far, because she has an even balance of counterplay and skillful plays. The matches against or as her, are pretty much always fair. The new killers you design are so incredibly lame and rely entirely on survivor ignorance to capitalize on anything. Even Wesker, as fun as he is, is so badly designed that when good survivors refuse to get hit by his easily dodgeable M2, they have the game all but won.
And lets not even talk about the Knight or the new killer coming up. You just keep designing killers that have zero power in and of themselves; too reliant on survivors being birdbrains. You really need to refer to the Artist in designing killer powers, because you did really nail it with her.
All of this is the reason that turning the match into a 3v1 early on is the only way for a killer to win against a good team if he isnt the right killer pick. Address these issues and the game will improve itself as tunneling is just symptomatic of imbalanced design.
Ok, so what if i tunnel after all those survivor nerfs?
What happens then? Because last time the kill rates were at 60%. And why would nerfing survivor make killers tunnel less if in the end it would still be the easier path to victory. Because if the game lets you do it, people will do it
Also, i never seen anyone praise Artist design. I mean, i like her. But even i know she has the same Hold W and no counter play on loops problem of the new killers
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@Chaos999 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3360147#Comment_3360147
Ah, but If there are no chests? Then the survivors would just work on their objective. Hide a trap in the middle of useful chests and the survivors will have reason to take a chance and open those chests. Empty chest would definitely be hilarious.
Would be all up for tripling the amount of chests if at least half of them were empty and I could trap one.
Yeah, it almost like survivors bring their items don't go for chest and go for the objective. Better not tell this to anyone xD
Legit, bhvr if you are listening, put traps in chest and empty chest for an April fools event. Pls, i beg you xD
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3359773#Comment_3359773
I think your underestimating some of the perks. the perk 1 adds additional 1 second to pallet breaking. Pallet breaking for killer takes default 2.7 seconds, so with this perk, it takes 3.7 second to break a pallet because you will break the pallet, then get stunned. this works similar to blastmine except it does not trigger pallet break animation, it triggers after completing the pallet break including killer powers(such as billy chainsawing a pallet). The perk easy to use and very reliable. You press E during a survivor's animation of dropping a pallet and flashmine is put on pallet.
If you ask me, I think the perk would be deemed too powerful by killer player that goes against it. The other two perks more tactical and more oriented around stealth and junking the killer.
Perk #2 automates kick actions. for example, if the killer is running call of brine, pop goes weasel and nowhere to hide, all 3 of these perks will trigger on the generator automatically and be applied. By itself, it only applies kick action which by default is 2.5% regression but with perk synergy, the perk can elevate kicks perks by allowing you to kick more generators in a match on average.
The perk 1 you say that the pallet needs to be dropped by at least 40 seconds. I genuinely don't see the use of a perk that forces you to pre drop pallets just to use for 1 second of longer animation and a 1 sec blind. And causes exhaustion.
About perk 2, maybe. I didn't think of those applications, but i still think it wouldn't be used for the limited time and necessity to combo with other perks. But i could be wrong and definitely see a bit more of a purpose to the perk.
As long as we agree that free health states on a perk is a bad idea.
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@Chaos999 said:
Considering that chest contents are actually the killer's property, I wonder why would the killer make the effort to ensure all its contents are useful for survivors?
Honestly it would be fun if trapper could actually change the content a chest with a booby trap.
By that logic, just don't have chest in the map at all.
Less dumb challenges to give killers free wins.
Also by that logic a chest could be empty, just for big middle finger moment. I honestly would love that xD
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@profwizard said:
used to i would deal with a squad with 3 or 4 flashlights maybe once a month. now its 10 times a week
Kinda, flashlights saves are easier to time thanks to a buffer window. Besides that, no. Nothing changed
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@patadanaboca007 said:
So, I was just chilling playing some dbd using my main build (windows of opportunity, lithe, adrenaline, prove thyself), but I got bored and changed it to a healing build (empathy, botany knowledge, built to last, desperate measures), what happened? I played against a Plague using pentimento and thanatophobia...After that match I changed the build again to a chase focused build (dead hard, windows of opportunity, open handed, resilience) with a purple flashlight, what happened? I played against a hit and run Legion that barely chased anyone...
I might be cursed or something
Haha, yeah i hate that feeling. Yesterday had to do a challenge to get protection hits so i decided to bring a med kit with mettle of man, go against a plague, well there goes the plan.
Really feels like a matchmaking curse xD
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@Aven_Fallen said:
If a single DH really extends a chase for you by 1-2 minutes AND you still take this chase - just another sign that you really, really struggle with the game and might want to search the reason by yourself and not the game.
Furthermore, DH might cover up a mistake, however, the good players use DH because they know that they can get away with it - not because they made a mistake. It is a really stupid misconception from Killer players that they think DH = mistake. If you can squeeze out that extra Loop or make it to a Window instead of using a Pallet with DH, this is not a mistake.
Couldn't say it better xD
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@Devil_hit11 said:
Survivor perk ideas
Lock & loaded
Upon dropping a pallet, Press active ability 1 button to place a flash mine on the corresponding stand pallet that has been dropped for 40 seconds. A killer that finishes breaking the pallet will be stunned for 1 additional second after completing the break action and will be blinded for 1 seconds.
Lock & Loaded causes the Status Effect for 60/50/40 seconds.
Lock & loaded cannot be used when Exhausted.
Hindsight:
When a survivor let go of a generator, Hindsight suppresses your Scratch Marks for 3/4/5 seconds.
Silent walking:
Increases footstep sounds of the killer by 30%/40%/50%.
Decreases survivors footstep sounds by 15%/20/25%
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Killer perk idea:
Trembling fear:
Upon successfully completing a generator in a 64/96/128 meter radius, the survivors that completed the generator loses 1 health-state. If the survivor is injured, the survivor suffers from deep wound status effect.
Malfunction:
Each time a survivor is rescued from a hook when you are at least 24 meters away. Malfunction activates for next 35/40/45 seconds.
The next survivor put into the dying state will apply an automatic kick action to the nearest generator within 32 meters of the current killer location and begin regressing the generator.
Malfunction deactivates after damaging a Generator or when its timer expires.
Keen Ingenuity:
The presence of technology excites you.
Generator within 8 meters grant 5%/8%/10% haste bonus for 5 seconds when outside of a chase. This effect cannot be triggered when a survivor is within 20 meters near a generator.
Survivor perk 1: Lol, 1 second stun and blind that causes exhaustion and needs to be placed at a 40 second dropped pallet. Wow, and people say that flashlight are worthless, that is worse than worthless
2: Meh, its just poised but worst and best in other ways, will be used the same amount of time. Aka, never.
3: Meh, i don't remember ever listening to footsteps of a killer when the terror radius and red visor is a thing, and i don't think the footstep reduction would be helpful, but i am not sure
Killer perk 1: Free injuries from doing nothing, like that is definitely a big no. No restrictions, activation conditions, nothing just free health states, that is way to much, we have gone way to far in the other direction if free health state need to be given to killers for doing nothing.
2: Why not just use jolt, less conditions bigger reward just asking for the down to be a basic attack. This one feels underwhelming.
3: Meh, cute effect i guess. I would prefer perks that help in chase, or help find survivors faster or buy me time than moving faster for a few seconds when i am wasting time
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@Skill_issue said:
Thank you bhvr I cant wait to test a new blood rush/sprint burst/windows/flashbang build and a new trap killer is glorious as well. What about the rest of you?
Meh, blood rush and cut loose look like fun and cool perks, the map visual update looks cool, hope the new shelter woods has less dead zones and eruption will loose the incapacitated.
Everything else, i don't care. The new killer isn't my thing and she looks boring to go against to.
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@Spectralfx said:
Title says it all.
Killer's perks have been butchered for a year or more, map design screw us over on top of it.
Everyday I log in to 100% bp bonus for killers.
What more is there to say?
Wait, you do?
I only see the bp on killer for like 2 hours by 8 pm. Its better than before that was basically never, but i still find it a very rare occurrence
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Meh, its alright i guess.
Like the game feels ok, but you have to endure all the pains in both roles. Just feels bad that we haven't gotten a fun killer since Wesker and i was hoping for that. I was hoping that this new killer would be fun after knight, but it wasn't. So i guess the worst i can say is that the game is stale because there are no fun new things to experiment, being killer or survivor
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@Trollinmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3359246#Comment_3359246
DH becomes free vs certain m2's while not vs m1. Why should m2 killer that requires higher skill be reduced to an m1 power level because of a perk. The entire problem with it is that it acts much more like a 3rd health state vs a killer like Demo compared to a killer like Trapper. Removing the perk from m2 fixes the large glaring issue with the perk(free health state vs m2).
Yeah, putting a guard in a loop is the most skillful play of the century.
You don't want balance, you just want to not have to deal with the perk. And apparently making the best killers in the game better is the solution people say its fair.
What a BS statement, i haven't seen a rise in M1 killers because of DH, oh wait because those M2 killers can make up for the lost time. Its almost like every single S, A and B tier killer are all M2 killers with exception of pinhead.
Poor nurse gets countered by DH, should have been playing wraith. Thats how you get easy Ws apparently.
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@Yippiekiyah said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3359228#Comment_3359228
What like everyone tolerated Eruption which was a fun perk for killer.
I never said we tolerate all perks. And definitely not eruption.
Also how was eruption fun? Because it was busted? I don't see what fun the perk brings? Its like saying prove thyself is fun because gens go fast, who says that?
I just don't ever act like the perks that are using against me are fun. So saying that DH is only fun for the survivor, like no way, really, maybe because its a survivor perk and off course killers won't ever find it fun, again the best you get is tolerate.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3359335#Comment_3359335
The official developer notes stated the concerns were that it disproportionally affected solo players. The developer notes did not mention anything regarding SWFs when they were talking about the eruption nerf.
And you keep ignoring the fact that we have many M2 killers that aren't top tier. If people are just going to say "just bait out dead hard, it only takes a few seconds", then dead hard needs to be changed so that killers like Trickster can actually deal with dead hard, while Trickster is at range and can throw knives at a survivor.
What really should be done, is dead hard needs to be nerfed with the same degree and energy as what happened to eruption. Change dead hard so it doesn't work on M2 powers, and prevent it from working when a survivor is within 5 yards of a pallet or vault. Just keep added nerfs onto it, until it's just as bad as nerfed eruption.
If we really want to whatabout M1 killers, we should whatabout the fact that many players relied on eruption when using weak M1 killers, because they needed a strong regression perk. And heavily nerfing eruption, without giving weak M1 killers any compensation, will affect them much more than it would affect strong M2 killers that didn't really need to use eruption. So, yes, the dead hard nerf should include something like "prevent it from working when a survivor is within 5 yards of a pallet or vault", so that it's also nerfed against weak M1 killers, as they need the most help in this game.
Just say you want the perk deleted i move on with it. You are just adding exceptions for the perk not to work because you don't want to play around the perk.
Eruption was busted and was nerfed.
If DH gets nerfed should be fairly and not by adding conditions of use so i don't offend anyone.
Now starting to add exceptions so the perk doesn't work because you can't adapt to it, its stupid.
And i don't care that are M2 killers that are weak, i assume that you agreed with me that the strongest are M2 killers, so why exactly should you buff those killers again?
Also, Eruption wasn't a perk that M1 killers relied, every killer could use that perk, and was busted on every killer. There was no rule for a nurse or a blight that they can't use the perk.
And people should stop using the counter play argument, the perk as counter play and the there a ton of situations without counter play in the game. For survivors, killers (good or bad). DH is not this revolutionary perk without counter play, it just feels bad to get hit by it because the perk is the definition of a Cock-Block