BlueHorkew
BlueHorkew
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@OneGoodBoyDemo said:
Haddie: Overzealous
Rebecca: Hyperfocus
Vittorio: Quick Gambit
Thalita : friendly competition
l know that some on them are bad by itself but why BHVR keep doing It? if you don't want people to be repairing the gens all day just revert the time change in the generators but of course this will bring many problems again.
Some people still complain that generators are still too fast but BHVR keep releasing gen speed perks. I will never understand....
I mean, all of them either are bad or need an entire build around them.
Overzealous makes you waste more time than the benefit it gives you
Hyperfocus needs another perk and preferably high rarity itens and add-ons to be worth it
Quick gambit is a killer perk if not in a 2 floor map and not playing against Nurse
And new one is Deja Vu but worst. "Oh but both survivors get the boost and last 15 more seconds", well doesn't mater because Deja vu helps break 3 gens and gives the boost for free
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
Knowing which breakable walls are still standing and which ones aren't can be extremely useful information, especially if they're near windows because a lot of loops become weaker once the walls are broken down.
Just because you can't interact with breakable walls as a survivor doesn't mean they aren't important.
I think that the visual clutter in some maps and confusion is worst than the information.
I remember situations where i panicked and just went to a wall because it was yellow and didn't noticed that it was a breakable wall. I know it was my fault, but i would also prefer to not have those flashing yellow on screen
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
Here’s a hot take.
If medkits are nerfed, opening chests should be made faster baseline. No need for Plunderer’s to speed it up.
Yay, X less seconds to get an useless broken key or an useless green map. So happy xD
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@Blueberry said:
This the buff I was wanting for it as well but people complain that it’s once again hurting solo queue more than swf. The majority of things are going to hurt solo more than swf though, it’s hard to get around this for every future change to the game, it just is what it is. I don’t know how else to buff blindness otherwise and it does need a buff.
The problem is that only affects solos.
The new HUD was created so solos and SWF could be in similar power, they aren't but it was a huge improvement.
There is already a ton of perks on both sides that either get way better as a SWF or don't work as well against a SWF, so i don't see a reason to add a basic status effect that already only affects solos to affect them even more.
Blindness is only used to counter WoW and slugging, survivors just don't have as many good aura perks or natural abilities as killers do
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@Heeman said:
I feel that after the solo q buffs now is the perfect time to buff blindness and make it more viable allowing killers to counter the survivors and leave them in the dark, the buff would hide the survivors UI and they won't be able to see who is getting chased, repairing etc. if this seems too much then I would suggest toning the various add-ons down from 60 seconds to 45 and maybe put them higher in rarity also maybe allow more perks to apply this effect like blood echo.
Problem, you just buffed killers against solos and SWF don't get affected.
Not a good idea.
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@BenOfMilam said:
Actually a good buff. It steps on the toes of Pharmacy a little, since it's the only other perk that effects chest search speed (Appraisal only effects rummage speed I think).
Maybe Plunderer's can have a smaller speed boost than Pharmacy, and they can stack? I like that idea, as a chest enjoyer.
It's just because it's a general perk so everyone has it.While pharmacy it's a paid DLC,
But honestly i never used pharmacy before, so i didn't even knew it gave you a speed boost to opening chests xD
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@Steakdabait said:
That would make it worse in situations where it's already bad and not actually effect situations where it's truly strong
Isn't that a good place for the perk to be?
Be good in its use, but have weaknesses?
Yes, it would nerf DH in the open, the place where the perk is the weakest. But at least killers don't loose so such distance for one perk ad keeps it strong when used well. But fot being in the open other exhaustion like SB or lithe are better.
It would also nerf tunneling, since you can't hit the BT and not have to think about DH anymore, kinda dumb that the tunneling playstile actually benefited from the DH change, while regular gameplay has to deal with it
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@AetherBytes said:
Isn't... Isn't this just old DH?
Kinda, just not giving you the dash part of the perk.
I think the problematic part of the perk was the free distance that lets you connect loops, it was the easiest and more effective way to use the perk.
With this change it would make DH keep its function of dodging a killer's hit but not giving you free distance or giving a full 3rd heath state speed boost, making so even if the survivor actually DHs in the open, the killer can catch up quickly if the survivor can't reach safety.
If the iframe window needs to be touched or not with this version that could also be tested.
But i think that maybe making DH more reliable but less game changing could be a direction.
Again makes using DH in loops still good, but makes the perk bad when in the open where a perk like Sprint burst or lithe would be better.
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@Dream_Whisper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3344385#Comment_3344385
Commitment is not the problem with CoH, you can do the same with any boon perk. The problem is Huge Benefits that one perk brings over what other boon sort of lack, not to mention you can hide it away from the killer's detection range. Which is why CoH is far more useful, as it less likely to be discovered by the killer unless they waste time active seeking it.
The other boons will always be at risk of being snuff as they need to be within a chase of the killer, or within proximity/earshot from the killer. Those boons will always get less to no value, as there will be be to triangular the location through sound. By removing the sound and any means for the killer to find the problematic Boon perks, that would not only make Killer hate boons more. But it would also make CoH far worse and harder to track, especially on big map where totem spawn is not easy to figure out. So, yeah, I object any removal of sound cue on the killer perspective.
I would be slighty fine with buffing the numbers, since the risk of being snuff is high; but no increase boon range, and no silence boons, that would be too strong for CoH until that perk gets reworked/nerf
I don't think buffing numbers would work.
Like, look at exponential, 100% recovery speed and infinite getting up. Nobody uses it.
The numbers are already insane, way better than any other perk in the game.
In the end, doesn't matter. Those boons are risky, force you to take the killer to them, the range is an issue to them.
COH doesn't care about the range and so less risky, the best use of COH is in a remote place where the killer would have to waste to much time to remove it.
If the other boons want to be good they need to be easier to protect and get value.
Its a difficult issue and its sad that COH basically has an hold on the other boons
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3344424#Comment_3344424
You're still just describing people being dumb, that isn't a boon issue.
The reason you see those other boons rarely is because most people are selfish and don't want to run team builds.
As a final point why.
Even the individualistic perks are better for the team.
1 Distortion is way better than Shadow Step, because you can actually say what is happening, the information aspect of the perk is as strong as the aura reveal itself, and shadow step doesn't give you that, so when you actually want to play safe and hide your aura, giving that information for the team is way better than a 24m safe zone. The hiding scratch marks is useful if you are in a in door map.
And unbreakable, just having that perk already benefits your team, since releases pressure for them. And while exponential gives it to all players, i would argue that the reliability of being able to do it whenever with no requirements whatsoever is superior.
So no, i don't even think the argument of being team perks gives them credit.
Add the fact that the killer can't do anything to stop the individual perks, not needing to do side stuff and not being limited to an area.
Nah, bring distortion or unbreakable, you help the team just as much and way more reliably with those
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3344424#Comment_3344424
You're still just describing people being dumb, that isn't a boon issue.
The reason you see those other boons rarely is because most people are selfish and don't want to run team builds.
That is not true, people run altruistic builds all the time, even perks that aren't that crazy strong like For the people.
They just don't want to have to run boons because of the commitment that they are. They are way too restrictive, but COH doesn't care about the restrictions, i have said it before, COH could have the radius of 2M and it still would be the best boon in the game.
Because the nature of the perk doesn't care about that. The others do and are limited because of it.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3344400#Comment_3344400
Well now you're just complaining about bad players being dumb, that has absolutely nothing to do with boons.
That's like complaining about bad map design where there's a dead zone with no pallets and windows because survivors are dumb and run over there. That wouldn't be a map issue, that would be a player issue.
I complaining that boons are a time investment that require you do side stuff for what can amount to nothing.
You can bring unbreakable and never use it, but you didn't hurt the team.
You can bring distortion and it never activates, but you don't hurt the team, if you are in SWF you can even call out that the killer has no aura reading.
The boon versions require time, they already start at disadvantage, so if you don't get any value from them it's even worse, since you waste time setting the boon at least, if you didn't already wasted time looking for a totem.
Also people don't use them. I don't remember the last time i saw a boon that wasn't COH or if had other boons, it had COH.
People do all types of builds, even if just to have fun and try something different. But not boons, i don't agree that the boon mechanic is fine and i don't think the benefits outway all the cons. And i am almost sure that if bhvr ever makes COH a bad perk, the whole boon mechanic is dead.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3344376#Comment_3344376
"The problem is that they take time to setup, their range is limited, and can be removed insanely fast. While the self versions are way more consistent and effective. So no, they are not good and not worth it."
Which is exactly as I mentioned, the trade off for it being team wide instead of for yourself. They are still better for your team than the individual ones. You're still missing the point.
"And if COH ever gets nerfed to being a bad perk, there just no point in bringing boons at all."
I disagree, most the others still have purpose as a TEAM use. No one saying for CoH to be made a bad perk either, just a balanced perk.
"Seeing a Mikaela booning the same totem for the 3rd time flashbacks, pls let it end."
In the current meta if she's actually booning it that many times that means the killer is being dumb and wasting time snuffing it over and over. Please let the Mikaela continue because it means the killer is wasting time and throwing the game. I don't think you're seeing that the time the Mikaela is wasting doing that with the time the killer is wasting snuffing it is a net POSITIVE for your team overall.
People in solo queue just set boons in the open, in bad areas where the killer has interest coming, next to gens that people are working and other dumb mistakes. Like i have seen survivors repeatedly set up COH, when i am playing Plague.
They aren't on gens, they let survivors go on hooks and just not helping at all.
Boons are a time investment for survivors to and sometimes you loose games because those players aren't being productive.
Maybe that is the reason why COH didn't get nerfed until now, bad players dying using the perk because they are wasting the team's time.
This stuff happens with COH, survivors complain about teammates setting up COH.
What do you think is gonna happen if it is any of the other boons? Boons will become a dead mechanic and a killer perk, if they don't make some changes to them.
COH is crazy and yes i do think it does to much and doesn't suffer from the problems of the other boons.
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@Dream_Whisper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3344023#Comment_3344023
That is sort of th3 problem with CoH, unlike other Boon perks. CoH needs to be as faraway from the action or in the most obscure beyond the Killer's patrol path; to get massive value for you and your team, when it comes to self heals, or boosted healing.
Every Boon is not that oppressive strong and not hated by Killer's as much, because in order to used those boon effectively they need to be close to the action and chase yet be risk of being heard by the killer and waste bit of time to be located and snuff by the Killer, which in turns makes it useless if you cannot get any value like increase speed, picking yourself up from the ground, Remove your aura/scratch marks, etc.
General it makes sense why Killer's developed a hatred to Boons, and why they want Shattered Hope basekit or nerf boons in general. All because of CoH alone being a problem on its own.
You could add a additional benefit to the other boons, or even slightly increased the range if you want to for Dark Theory, but how do balance Boon Radius if you bring multiple Boon perks together?!?
Also, I am not in favor making other boons be all, "I bless this totem away from the killer and I can run 6% faster anywhere on the map, outside the boon Radius"; because that would make Killer's hate Dark Theory also. No boons should be effectively in far away from the killer, and CoH should have been nerf, also maybe you can slightly buff the other boon perks to compensate when in chase.
Idk how to fix the other boons. Maybe increase the range of boons from 24 to 32 or 36m. Maybe remove the audio for killers when near a boon, making them more stealthy similar to hexes, so atleast the killer actually needs to know the general totem spawns of maps, which is not even that hard.
Idk, i just know that COH is the only boon that actually deserve the commitment to actually set it up. All the others are just wasting time that you could be doing something productive for the team.
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@Blueberry said:
Boons are hard to balance as they're unhealthy for the game in design.
CoH is way over tuned and gets its value being away from the action. While the other ones are at least healthier in needing to be close to everything but with some being under tuned.
Main one needing buffs is Dark Theory, but what do you do with it? This is one of those perks that with the slightest tweak could go from bad to way too strong very quickly.
Honestly Exponential and Shadowstep are fine. People make the comparison of why run these when you could run Unbreakable/Distortion ect, but that's missing a huge point, it's group wide, not just yourself. If you account for the fact that it's for your entire team and just taking one perk slot instead of one on each person I think that more than accounts for the limitations of being a boon.
Boons are not supposed to be individually better than their personal counter parts, it's supposed to be a weaker version for you, but with the trade off that it effects the entire team with less perk slots wasted.
They are team perks, not self perks.
The problem is that they take time to setup, their range is limited, and can be removed insanely fast. While the self versions are way more consistent and effective.
So no, they are not good and not worth it. And if COH ever gets nerfed to being a bad perk, there just no point in bringing boons at all.
I guess when that happens, survivors can just bring med kits, We will make it or other healing perks and stop wasting time with totens.
Seeing a Mikaela booning the same totem for the 3rd time flashbacks, pls let it end.
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@FMG15 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/364505/survivors-arent-to-blame-for-eruption
Where did you get the energy that there is a huge amount of hate towards the survivors because of the Eruption change? Literally everyone is acknowledging the fact, that BHVR overnerfed it. But no one is blaming survivors for that. If anything people are blaming BHVR for overnerfing another perk instead of simply removing the incapacitated and letting the regression as it is. But no they have to give this perk the Ruin treatment making it very useless.
I am not saying everyone, but i definitely seen a lot of post and comments of people blaming survivors and acting like survivors are on the hunt for all of killers best perks and stuff like that.
I just think that type of reaction is not helpful or truthful.
I want bhvr to not touch the regression part of the perk, and again hated the perk so much that i refused to use it as killer because it felt cheap.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/364505/survivors-arent-to-blame-for-eruption
Of course not. Devs are the ones making the decisions at the end of they day.
"The problem with eruption was how unfun and cheap it felt, but nobody wanted the perk to get gutted or wants killers to have all their perks gutted, that is complete untrue."
I wouldn't say it's completely untrue. There are enough around and I've seen my fair share on this forum (Twitter seems much worse). That think if a killer looks in their direction it's too OP and should be nerfed. TBF there are killer players like that towards survivors too. But, yes usually that sentiment if from players who rarely play the other side.
I mean of course there are people like that on both sides. Just don't think that it is an healthy mind set and i bet most people think of both sides, because i also bet most people have played both sides.
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@Quizzy said:
I truly believe its a good approach that behavior is taking with regression from current rather than total progress. And hopefully they do it with pain res as well.
Killers complain about one perk, dh. While survivors complain about not just eruption. But the gen kicking regression builds that we see time and time again consisting of the same 4 gen regression build perks like eruption, pain res, cob, overcharge that stacks and constantly being used.
I truly believe eruption being gutted and changed into an info perk will finally take it out of the gen kick builds and into aura reading builds which i prefer more.
I don't agree with you at all. Yeah stacking regression is annoying but its also a necessary part of the game. And making those perk less reliable is never a good feeling.
I like reliable perks, playing with survivor or killer.
And PR is a good perk design wise, rewards advancing the game and not stalling a game for 30 min.
When the only complain i can say about the perk is that beneficts campers, i think that it is a small complaint.
And survivors technically can counter that with other perks like beakdown or sabos
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@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3344024#Comment_3344024
Altho OPs point isnt valid imo, tinkerer was useless against swf, like always, you can just call out that the killer lost his tr or that you gen is close to 70%, idk how this is a rare thing to know.
I mean, yeah its less effective but it still gives you the information.
I wouldn't consider it a dead perk.
I just didn't see how the HUD was to blame, thats all
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@Witchubtet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3344084#Comment_3344084
Sadly Dissolution suffers by telling the survivor they are effected by it, but I do agree those are good perks. I use Hubris a lot in my M1 builds.
When I say chase I’m more implying movement perks. (Outside of powers because I don’t want to see a meth fueled Blight) Like breaking things gives you haste for Six to Ten seconds. Or chasing a survivor fills up a perk to give you a longer lunge.
Yeah, i agree that dissolution shouldn't alert the survivors, i think they played it safe there. I believe its good on plague, but i haven't tried it.
Haste effects, only if they don't apply while using powers, because if they did, they would be broken.
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@Gandor said:
most of those things are "win more when you win" style of perks
I have to disagree here. A lot of perks that apply regression for a down are basically just giving you back time you had to spend on actually hooking someone. A lot of these perks are healthy
A lot of perks are actually healthy for both sides. Namely gen stalling perks are generally healthy (corrupt, deadlock with small exception to camping bubba - which is more bubba problem, dms with small exception to artist but it's not even that unhealthy, thana even if it's a bit too weak now). The only problem is if killers are able to stack all regressions and their regression speeds is bigger then survivor's progression (so OC+CoB+current Eruption+any 4th regression perk like pain res) - this is being tackled by scheduled strong nerf to eruption.
There is also a problem in 4man team goes full genrush build, but frankly this is very rare sight (making it less of a problem). There are very few 4mans with 4 commodius toolboxes + 4x brand new parts + 2x proof + 2x streetwise + 4x hyperfocus + 4x stakeout (this is true genrush build).
There will be killers that will complain about "genrush" when none of these items/addons/perks are used, but that is usually problem of tunneling killer that is not able to catch a survivor and so is wondering how did those 3 people that he didn't see finish all the gens in 5 minutes (duh - you never put any pressure on them so what else were they supposed to do? Also considering basement bubba exists 5 minutes is still too long if killer decides to camp from 1st hook to death every time). This pseudo "genrush" is not a problem for the game
I don't agree with thana being a healthy perk. Or at least the previous version of it. While on most killers the effect seems fair, forcing survivors to heal or get punished for worse gen times, in those killers where survivors just don't have the option to heal, legion and plague, the perk is unhealthy.
But i actually think there is a way to make the perk more healthy and useful.
Thanatophobia:
When a survivor is hooked, survivors get a penalty to repair and healing actions by 10%. When you hook a survivor for the first time you gain a token, for each token you increase the penalty by 2.5% up to the maximum of 20%. The effect lingers for 8/9/10 seconds after a survivor is unhooked.
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@Witchubtet said:
If they feel like people rely to much on Gen Regression peeks why don’t they give us new chase perks or buff some of the older ones? The only one I run at all is STBFL because it helps my Huntress and Deathslinger.
If we had a few more then it would be an actual meta shake up.
I mean they have been releasing chase perks.
Last year we had dissolution, superior anatomy and hubris. Only Sadako didn't bring a chase perk, but gave an aura perk that also helps in chases.
The problem is that chase perks give different benefits depending on each killer. While some chase perks are amazing in some killers, they might not work well with others. Regression is universally good, those builds are easier and work for most killers.
I would love the game to be more chase oriented for both sides and i would love to see more fun perks to be released.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3344045#Comment_3344045
Eruption didn't get that many complaints, and the only complaint it got was that 25 seconds of incapacitation just puts the game on pause for them. BHVR's the one that went scorched earth on it.
BHVR is absolutely not listening to survivors.
Yep, most complaints from the survivor side i saw and created even were trying to buff the perk in the regression or removing the cooldown to compensate.
It's not survivors fault thaat bhvr decided to be extreme, most survivors want killer perks to still be good, but they want to have fun
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@RainehDaze said:
Exponential has its uses (but unhookable sabo builds are the worst thing to play against). And Shadow Step has niche applications.
Dark Theory is the pointless one... but if a non-durational speed boost was any stronger, then there'd be big problems.
Yes, they have their uses, but the requirements and limitations are the problem.
If i want exponential, i will take unbreakable
If i want shadow step, i will take distortion or lucky break
If i want dar theory, i should probably stop playing because i must have gotten mental damage
Boons as a mechanic need buffs, but COH is so strong and the fact that is not limited by the restrictions of the other boons (range and bringing the killer close to the boon) make this unlikely to happen.
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@ProfessorDunwich said:
HUD makes it so Survivors can see 70% gen progress. They know to get out of a dodge for a few seconds.
What? How? That doesn't make sense.
Also, are you saying that tinkerer was always a dead perk against a SWF then?
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3343514#Comment_3343514
if they increase radius from 24 to 48 meters. I do not think they will be waste of time. that would cover 1/3 of the map that 2% haste does make difference. haste is good. limit radius is not.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3343842#Comment_3343842
yeah... except generally bvhr does not like a certain class of perks to be all equally viable. they usually limit 1 perk in its class. so if dark theory becomes viable, then all other boon perks are likely to get killed which is good or bad depending on your favourite perk effects.
Yes, if the radius was bigger.
But killers have an hate for boons thanks to COH, so i doubt bhvr will buff boons anytime soon.
Boons are not balanced, COH is the only good one because its a self heal for the whole team with just one perk.
Also, COH is the only boon that benefits for being faraway from a killer while whole the other boons require you to be in the zone of a killer, thats why the range is not an issue for COH, COH could have a range of 2m and would still be as good as it is.
While all the other boons are just a waste of time, their range is short, require you to take the killer to the boon, so making them easier to remove, which just makes you waste more time.
Boons, if not COH are a waste of time.
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@Septentrion said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3343504#Comment_3343504
1m sprint will be much less effective than old DH and requires survivor to plan their route really well. Also fewer loops you can get compared to 4m dash. Lithe, Balance Landing also help survivors get extra loops or running to a jungle gym/safe pallet. That's the natural of exhaustion perks, they will make killer spends more time in chase. 4m dash being too strong is because players abuse it to get more loops on the long side of a safe pallet, where killer has no choice but follow them rather than mind games. I think this is also a map design issue, new maps just introduce more safe pallets rather than place for mind games. But with nerfed distance killer now spends less time to catch them.
The point of current DH that forces a mind game is quit annoying in my experience. It's just some garbage seconds in chase and extremely fraustrating if you failed and that's why I call it unecessary mind game. Even you say current DH counters stronger killers more than weaker killers, DH will still make a couple more seconds in chase for M1 killers.
Legion and Deathslingers are counters to DH but relies on Deep Wound state, which will make killers, perks, add-ons design harder. So making DH a speed boost could also solve this problem.
Honestly, i just don't find the new DH annoying, not compared to the old.
And there is also the fact that the perk is the definition of unreliable because of lag and the necessity to play mind games.
And i find mind games more enjoyable then "I have this skill so now you can't do anything", maybe reducing the hit speed boost from DH would be a better solution, maybe 1.8 is just too much, but i am not sure but i think M1 killers are not put in their regular cooldown timer when hit a DH, which again just makes the power better at countering M2s and powers like Blight and nurse.
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@[Deleted User] said:
My wacky idea:
When the final generator reaches 100% completion, Grim Embrace will trigger. For a duration of time that’s increased for every unique survivor you’ve hooked, all generators will be blocked and the gates will not be powered. After this time elapses, the gates will become powered as normal.
So, no way out 2.0?
Like it's the same effect
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@CrimsonMothKing said:
It's an ok idea for Grim Embrace, but if all these effects only apply once, then it's quite bad.
Devour Hope gives 10% movement speed after 1 hook AND gives near permanent Exposed after the third, no need for unique hooks.
If Grim Embrace was a perk that ramps up in efficiency as you get more hooks, that would be good. With the exception of 3rd and 4th hook, the first 2 buffs, only getting once isn't good.
Devour can be destroyed before you get any value.
And yes, the point is to get to better effects, thats the idea.
The problem with grim embrace is that you need to do way too much and the reward is just ok.
Getting rewards that get better as you play and not tunneling survivors.
Again, you can suggest other effects.
And while i don't think that the version that i suggested would be a top tier perk, i do think it would be tons of fun to play and having a perk that has so many effects with each hook
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3343514#Comment_3343514
It's not meant to be used by itself but WITH resilience
Ok, gives youtubers content for the vault speed build.
For everyone else, just a waste of time
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@poujh said:
dark theory is currently not a good boon, 2% speed bonus seems meaningless. Now, i know that tinkering with vault speed and movement speed is a delicate matter. IMO adding a little vault speed modifier might probably make the boon more attractive to some people. I suggested a 6% bonus but i just chose it randomly, maybe a 4% one or 3% might be more adequate, i don't know.
People wouldn't use it with 6% and being restricted to an area.
Resilience is right there.
Boons, if not COH are just a waste of time.
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@Septentrion said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3343261#Comment_3343261
Yeah it’s like old DH but with less distance (3m sprint vs 4m dash if I remember correctly) and no I-frames. I personally think getting slightly extra distance during chase is fine. SB and Lithe also allows players to get a decent distance but no one complains about it. The annoying part of current DH is that killer has to bait DH out before landing a hit. With no Endurance effect, new DH won’t make killer respect DH if they get very close to you. The problem of old DH is that it makes too much distance and can dodge a hit. I think nerf the distance and I-frame rather than make it a real 3rd health state is the right direction.
Actually its only a 1m Sprint, 2 of those are just regular survivor movement.
Still, this only makes DH good against M1 killers, since you can make extra loops.
People complain, but the good thing about the new DH is that counters top tier killers more than the weaker killers
And again, people didn't use DH to dodge hits before, people used it to reach safety in loops, that was the part of the perk that you couldn't counter
This new DH you have to dodge the hit.
Honestly i would prefer a perk that counters DH, similar to how legion and deathslinger counter DH, they could introduce a perk that inflicts deep wound on M1s
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@bm33 said:
Change your buttons. Chains are "interactions" while vaults/pallets/lockers are "actions".
What interactions does it change? Besides the chain mechaninc
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@Witchubtet said:
Maybe an Add-on for huntress, pyramid head, or Nemmy. Just a Ranger way to damage generators.
Like what? Are you gonna throw hatchets at gens?
Or are you asking for jolt in M2 as add-ons?
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@Septentrion said:
TL;DR
The current (and old) Dead Hard brings unnecessary mind game in chase that favors survivor. I suggest DH should mainly be used for survivors to reach a window/pallet or reposition themselves in chase, rather than gambling to dodge killer M1.
New Dead Hard:
When you are injured, tap into your adrenaline bank to avoid damage.
- Press the Active Ability button while running break into a sprint at 150 % of your normal Running Movement speed for 0.5 seconds.
Hi, I started play this game on 2019 and reached rank 1 on both killer and survivor. Recently there's a lot discussion on Eruption nerf, and people are starting complains about Dead Hard being too strong and not getting nerfed, while still some people argue DH is fine and use rate has dropped. To understand why the current DH is so debatable, I'm gonna share my thought about current meta.
Eruption (before nerf) is definitely the most powerful slow down perk. But to use it, killer needs to kick gens that are currently working on, which gives survivors plenty of time to make distance, making killer harder to get a hit. With Ruin and Pop being previously nerfed, killer has weaker abilibity to slow down the gen rush: Pain Res only regress 15% on 1 gen, jolt can affect multiple gens but good survivor knows to die at corner of the map, etc. So the best stratagy for killer brings down to get a survivor out of the game asap, which is why so many people and even streamers are saying tunneling is more frenquent right now.
This tunneling meta also makes dead hard less appealing because the Endurance doesn't stack. If a survivor got camped and hit into Deep Wound state, their DH is basically useless while SB/Lithe can still make a decent amount of distance. Legion and Deathslinger's power is also a good counter for current DH. This also makes DH's value varies among different killers, which I think is a bad design for exhaustion perk.
In my opinion, the core play of chasing is all about getting less distance to the survivor. If the killer is close enough to the survivor, they should get a guaranteed hit as they already won the chase. The problem of current DH is event killer is close to the survivor, killer has to bait their DH to knock them down, which is an unnecessary mind game. If killer lose this mind game and hit the survivor in Endurance state, they will get 1.8s on-hit sprint and maybe able to get a safe pallet, which is extremely fraustrating for killer. This is also the reason why some people saying current DH is stronger: if survivor win the DH mind game, they get more advantage than before.
In my experience of playing killer, all the frastration comes from things you get for sure but not get it. Such as flashlight save, sabo the hook while you carry a survivor. And I admit most of them have counter plays. Actually, mind game is (maybe most enjoyable) part of this game. But the mind game we got from current DH is not fun. Experienced survivor can read killers lunge attack and react before the hit lands. To counter that, killer has to respect DH and bait it out. This video made by Otz explains what it is pretty well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZvLmjxSRao&t=38s. Surely there are people who enjoy this mind game. But my philosophy here is if the killer has 0 distance from you, you already lose the chase with no last resort.
So in align with other exhaustion perk, new DH should also be a speed boost perk but can be used actively. It would perform like old DH. But since it doesn't have i-frames anymore, if the killer is close enough to survivor, their lunge attack will get a guaranteed hit because killer's lunge attack speed is faster than 150% survivor speed. The ideal scenario of using new DH is when you didn't pay attention to killer double back in shack or jungle gym, DH will help you make a little distance and make to a pallet. The speed boost will also make survivor to easily fast vault the windows that normally hard to, such as the window on 2nd floor of the Dead Dawg Saloon main building. New DH will encourage survivors to use in chase actively, rather than holding DH to dodge a hit. Without applying Endurance anymore, it can be combined with Off The Record and other perks. Also with all exhaustion perk (except Head On) gives speed boost, killer balancing now doesn't need to worry about if their power causing Deep Wound or Not.
Q: Why 0.5 second sprint? How about 1 second?
A: 1 second would be too strong imo. 0.5 second sprint is based on my personal experience. The goal here is to make DH not able to dodge lunge attack in a very close range, and 0.5s is the same as lunge attack window. 1 second sprint would still make players to use it for close range gamble. But other numerics like 0.6-0.8s can be tested in PTB.
Q: Is new DH still a counter to Nurse?
A: I think it won't be as stronger as current DH, but definitely requires more skills for Nurse to hit you if you use DH correctly. New DH is no longer effective in very close range, but if the Nurse's blink is not percise enough, you can still use DH to run away from her blink attack.
So this is what I think about how DH should be changed. It surely has some repercussion I'm missing. But for me, new DH is consistant with other exhaustion perks and no longer a 3rd health state perk. It definitely requires more skills to use but can be shine in specific situations. Please let me know what you think about my thought.
But, that was the most popular use of DH before, you know the part that killer can't counter, especially M1 killers.
You are just bringing back the DH for distance to safety.
People can think of the new DH as annoying but at least never makes me feel like i can't do anything as killer.
Even now seeing videos of the old DH and seeing survivors just DH to pallets and windows not ever being in danger just makes me cringe.
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@Demaetri said:
What really irks me are survivors who use Bond offensively. What I mean by this is the fact that survivors have Bond, a perk that reveals the auras of allies that are nearby in a certain radius, and, once they see you, run at you while bringing the killer with them, hoping to pass aggro at you. Now, once or twice in a match is random, but when it's constant? Not cool. What says everyone?
That is solo queue, you can face some people that play like.
It's not really the perk's fault but yeah it's really annoying and makes me curse a lot to those players in that moment
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@JustWhimsical said:
Similiar to the problem ghostface had. It is way too loud and needs to be lowered because it is headache-inducing.
Is there a music volume slider in the game? Idk, but could that help?
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@ProfessorDunwich said:
It's so random. There are dozens of perks that could really use a buff and they give a big one to a perk that is already pretty good.
I don't think the buff is that big, its really more of quality of life change.
Why? idk, probably to give more variety with a safe buff.
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@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3342784#Comment_3342784
PR doesn't have the same kind of monopoly with a 27% pick rate but that also has to do with the nature of killer perks and the nature of survivor perks are not the same since you only want 1 exhaustion perk whereas stacking slowdowns is good.
Do I want PR nerfed? Personally yes I'd be fine with it but that's because I'd like if we got away from regression meta in general but at the same time I don't think PR is overpowered or anything and I think if you shift the general killer meta the pick rate could go down without touching it.
Hmm, i actually agree with everything you said.
On DH, honestly i dont really care at this point if they nerf it or not. I just like the perk because its fun to use and doesn't really annoy me personally as killer.
I just want the perk to still be fun, because honestly that is the only reason i like it more than the other exhaustion perks.
Even if i feel that i get better results with SB. DH a killer hit just gives a big serotonin rush that no other perk gives
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@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3342768#Comment_3342768
The problem is DH has a near monopoly on exhaustion perks and those are some of the strongest in the game. Going by nightlight which is only a small amount of players but we can assume it's some of the better players if they're bothering to upload their games and DH has a pickrate of 34.5% and the next highest pick exhaustion perk is lithe at only 17.2% and then SB at 13.1%. If DH was even remotely balanced the spread would not be that lopsided.
Are you saying that PR should be nerfed then? It is the most picked killer perk by that same logic.
I do think PR is fine, just curious to know
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3342754#Comment_3342754
BHVR does, though.
Also, if one perk is clearly picked way more than the others, it means there's an issue somewhere. Sometimes, that's literally just because it's comfortable--look at old BBQ. That's not why DH is run so much, though.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3342680#Comment_3342680
No, it's guaranteed, that's kind of the point. There's a wait that serves the sole purpose of "only an M1 at point blank can't be reacted to without cheats", and having to do it every chase is antithetical to the design of Killer powers and basic mechanics. That's why there's lunges. That's why powers that hit beyond point blank exist. That's why there are instadown powers, but if someone doesn't heal they get pulled into it too.
But this one perk has a stranglehold on how chases must be played out because it's so common. Every game. Even if nobody has it. People getting value, no matter how small, from a perk they don't have, because the only counterplay is "do nothing".
The same counterplay Eruption had, which was exactly the reason it got so much complaining. Eruption makes you wait 25s doing nothing in one big go, DH makes you wait 25s doing nothing spread out over the entire match if multiple people choose to bring it†
† Closing the gap from lunge range to M1 range is about 5m, and that's about 8s at 4.6m/s. Bloodlust speeds it up, but gets cancelled out by waiting for the actual animation after that and seeing if it happens. Waiting out 3 DH in one match = 1 Eruption. And like Eruption, it can happen again and again.
So, do you want PR nerfed? Is that what you are saying? I assume it is.
Also, when did BBQ get nerfed? Its literally the same perk it always was, its still in thee top 10 most used killer perks, its good wit many killers.
The survivor version, WGLF got a buff and now nobody uses it since its so niche and hard get use out of the effects
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@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3342744#Comment_3342744
If the survivor is average or below in skill level yes. Otherwise there's a ton of other loadouts you can bring that are just as effective once you get good enough at looping.
Ok, i will still bring SB or DH every game i dont really care.
And again, i don't doubt that you can win without exhaustion perks, but they are some of strongest perks survivors have for a reason. Of course people will want to bring one. And since they share the same cooldown you can really only bring one maybe two.
Its really not that surprising seeing those perks having that high of pickrate.
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@Brix said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3341243#Comment_3341243
Same with Pop and well..
Pop numbers were way harsher
I do hope for them to reconsider and give it a nerfed flat regression, 15% or 20%.
I would take the 15% but removing the timer as way to buff Pop
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3342579#Comment_3342579
And yet, the usage of DH is about the same as the usage of the other good ones and Balanced Landing combined. It's likely only not higher because too many people faff about with Head-On and there's enough people who refuse to use it on principle.
If it had the same apparent usage as lithe (so, if, say, smash hit and head on cannibalised its usage somehow), then it wouldn't be the gameplay problem it is, because you'd only get one or two people using it every couple of games, not one person every game, and suddenly we wouldn't have the gameplay-distorting 'Killers have to try and bait it out if it's not there just in case' mess.
I don't think pickrate should matter in balancing a perk.
PR is the most popular killer perk and i dont think it should get nerfed.
But, while i personally don't think DH is a problem, i also don't care at this point if they nerf it or rework it or whatever, but i really want them to keep the spirit of the perk intact in whatever they decide to do
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@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3342579#Comment_3342579
As someone who consistently escapes with no exhaustion perks you're 100% wrong.
They make the game easier but they're no where near mandatory.
Ok, killers can also win with no slowdown, its just bad for a survivor to not bring an exhaustion perk.
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@Xendritch said:
Because assuming every survivor has DH and waiting it out every single chase is so fun and rewarding?
Eruption needed a nerf for sure but pretending DH is fine when it has a higher usage rate than Eruption does is weak af.
I mean DH is part of the small but almost mandatory category of exhaustion perks.
And Survivors only have 3 good ones so no wonder DH has a huge pickrate
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@Aurelle said:
Generator speeds are kinda getting out of control, mainly for the survivors side. Part of this is because they have an abundance of gen speed perks and items/addon's that allow them to do gens at ridiculous speeds (*Ahem* Commodious Toolbox and Brand New Part) but another part of it is because survivors do not have a mandatory secondary objective.
Implementing a secondary objective for survivors could help gen speeds and tone down Early Game a bit, while also providing a (somewhat) new gameplay experience. That being said, here's an idea for a secondary objective:
Survivors could gather parts for gens (1 part per gen) and install them in order to start repairing that generator.
Generator Parts
- In order to start repairing, 1 Generator Part must be installed onto a generator.
- 8 generator parts spawn on the map randomly
- Grabbing a Generator Part will not take up your item slot, but will be put into the in game inventory (similar to Sadako's Tapes)
- Installing a generator part will take 30 seconds.
- Survivors who get interrupted while installing a Generator Part will still have the install progress on the gen when they return.
- If a Gen has install progress already, other survivors can finish installing the part.
Items/Addons/Perks
- Toolboxes can now be used to install Generator Parts.
- Brand New Part is now used to progress Generator Part installing instead of Gen Progress.
- Maps can highlight the Auras of Generator Parts (Both Green and Red Maps)
- New perks can be created to help with Generator Part installing.
They would probably need to do a sequel to implement changes that drastic, its not as simple as pushing some buttons.
Legit, just remove the inta progress of BNPs its a stupid mechanic
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@Carth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3342560#Comment_3342560
Even with a flat 10% regression it would still be awful and niche. Eruption has been a garbage perk from the first day it was introduced and it's wild that in over 2 years these 3 variants are the best ideas that anyone can come up with. Either shockingly weak or overpowered.
PR and DMS was extremely complained about prior to eruption + cob taking center stage. Unless there are some other changes it's going to take the #1 spot of eruption + cob and based on historical trends going all the way back to OG ruin the most complained about/commonly encountered regression WILL be nerfed.
Better than the state that its in and probably more easy to implement than a rework to the perk.
I guess the aura reading can be good for nurse and blight. But those killers can win with anything so who cares.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3342560#Comment_3342560
PR is definitely going to be complained about, PR+DMS complaints are going to skyrocket like they did last time that was a dominant meta.
It's just pattern recognition.
Well i know i won't. And i complained a lot about eruption. PR and jolt are fine for me since they reward the killer for playing well. They don't stall the game indefinitely or stop you from playing the game.
And survivors still complaining about PR+DMS, like just pay attention its not that hard.
It's kinda sad that they nerfed DMS in that patch that reverted the interaction, that was kinda dumb, they should have just gave a time limit or skill check limit to merciless storm. But its done now i guess
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@leviivel said:
Since the red forest maps being changed, i remembered of how obnoxiously large mother’s dwelling is. And it’s an absolute PAIN playing a non heavy mobile or map pressure killer.
if you get mother’s dwelling as a killer that can’t counter it’s large size. Might aswell say GG if the survivors are decent. (Not complaining about survivors here, it’s not their fault the map is really strong for them). Since the map RNG can be so annoying, you could get a lack of pallet’s or you’ll find a pallet every 6 meters.
you can still win with the lesser strong killer’s for this map but then you have to play in an extremely boring manner: Tunnel first one out quick, 3 genning, etc. And we all know how much fun survivors are having from that.
mother’s dwelling isn’t the only culprit of being unnecessarily large, other maps also could use a bit of shrinkage, but mother’s dwelling just feels so bad to play on sometimes, especially with it being one of the heavier RNG based maps. i enjoy the differently generated maps but mother’s dwelling just feels like a complete coin flip.
I hope they do shrink the map a bit, even as survivor i prefer the temple version of the map, its really boring with how big it is, while it's definitely a different experience from other maps, but you just run around for so long.
And its really stressful as killer if you don't have mobility. It's honestly one of the maps that i know i will have to camp or tunnel because getting pressure is impossible