For those who cry about eruption being nerfed and ask for another dh nerf
Eruption rewarded unhealthy and boring playstyle and had to be changed asap, that's why they pushed the change in the upcoming patch now instead of the next midchapter with other perk changes.
Dead hard on the other hand, has already gone through a major nerf, only works in a 0.5s frame rewarding skill play
So what exactly are you complaining and crying about? You shouldn't rely on it, you got ur 4ss carried by it since the beginning and now u're pooping ur pants cuz hard times awaits your games?
Asking for another dh nerf only makes u all look pathetic and the fun thing is that it won't happen
Comments
The pain of DH is only really good players can optimize the use. Which making good players even harder to down.
I dont use Eruption as killer; and DH as survivor because both perks are stupid.
Because DH requires boring and unhealthy play from the Killer. Literally everything about baiting DH out and countering it boils down to "hold W and wait, swing if there's going to be a pallet because it's bad either way and the timing might work out".
No perk should be encouraging the Killer to sit on the Survivor's butt and not do anything, especially when they don't have the perk, and not use powers even when contact is guaranteed. That's bad gameplay.
Easy enough to understand?
Because assuming every survivor has DH and waiting it out every single chase is so fun and rewarding?
Eruption needed a nerf for sure but pretending DH is fine when it has a higher usage rate than Eruption does is weak af.
I mean DH is part of the small but almost mandatory category of exhaustion perks.
And Survivors only have 3 good ones so no wonder DH has a huge pickrate
Because it's easier to ask several nerfs instead of adapt
This has always been the average killer mentality over the years, and even though DH would be gutted, there will be complaints about SB, Lithe etc
And yet, the usage of DH is about the same as the usage of the other good ones and Balanced Landing combined. It's likely only not higher because too many people faff about with Head-On and there's enough people who refuse to use it on principle.
If it had the same apparent usage as lithe (so, if, say, smash hit and head on cannibalised its usage somehow), then it wouldn't be the gameplay problem it is, because you'd only get one or two people using it every couple of games, not one person every game, and suddenly we wouldn't have the gameplay-distorting 'Killers have to try and bait it out if it's not there just in case' mess.
As someone who consistently escapes with no exhaustion perks you're 100% wrong.
They make the game easier but they're no where near mandatory.
You don't even have to do that though. Maybe 1 time per match on every survivor at worst. But chances are you see an exhaustion on a player at some point before then and you know they don't have DH. I can't recall the last time I had to wait out DHs on every survivor for every down. People aren't waiting out a potential DH after a survivor uses SB or Lithe mid-chase...right?
Eruption was unhealthy? Fair enough. It was unhealthy because everyone hated playing against it. Strengthwise it was definitely strong but not super overpowered. Does that remind you of something? Can't put my finger on it but I have a feeling there is another perk with similar issues on the survivors' side.
Also, if you want to make an argument about game health you should be the first to call out how bad this rework to Eruption is. 10s of aura reading that can only be useful when slugging doesn't sound too healthy to me. Then again, we all know how much survivors love to be left on the ground.
Killers have had literally zero problem sniffing survivors while counting to 10 (or 12) to wait out BT off hook for years.
I don't for a second buy that it's the 'waiting'.
It's the fact that survivors can react and potentially outplay the killer that makes people angry.
No, it's definitely the waiting. Every time, until you're sure they don't have it. And that this complete lack of doing anything can get enough time to get to some other tile.
Also, there's a fundamental difference at play: waiting to see if someone has DH isn't a choice. Every game. Almost every chase (it's not like 3 and 4-DH lobbies are uncommon). Don't lunge, don't use your power, don't do anything, because you have to play around this perk. Did the Killer do anything to force this wait upon themselves? Nope, they're not opting to tunnel off hook. But got to do this stupid wait against someone who's possibly already lost the chase, just to check.
It's dumb.
If you really can't wrap your head around the idea, try finding something you do constantly in your life and putting an unnecessary ten seconds of just waiting for nothing to happen. It'll get annoying, fast.
Yeah, I cant wait to see the posts about a nurse or blight slugging them to get value out of the 10s aura(if anyone will run eruption that is) Imo I rather see the damn perk deleted than see it be nerfed to the point where it's completely useless and only encourage slugging.
First, who did that? I saw this maybe once or twice when the killer desperately tried to tunnel one person out.
Second, it's not about waiting once or maybe even twice. It's about waiting after every survivor in every chase. BT could simply be avoided by not going for the guy that's fresh off the hook. How do you avoid DH? You don't. You just try to wait until it's out of the way or get screwed
It's not the waiting, we agree on that point then. Killers will wait while camping or proxying. They'll wait out DMS or Repressed Alliance to kick gens in this meta. They'll still wait out BT. The differences are because it's a known factor, and *it's their choice to do it*.
You're so close to the right idea. It isn't a choice because it's the outplaying that is the real issue. You're having to play around a human player which makes the result uncertain. The only factor here is that you want to take a health state from the survivor, but the other player might actually be able to do something about it. The waiting/hesitation is simply a by-product because what you want to do isn't guaranteed.
That's why it really doesn't matter if Dead Hard gets deleted completely, people will just move to complaining about 99% Sprint Burst. You'll still be able to time a sprint burst to avoid a hit and gain distance, and it'll make people as angry as Dead Hard does now. Because it'll still be an unknown factor that you have to take into account when playing. It's just that Dead Hard is currently the better choice for most people.
There is a fundamental difference however. SB is annoying but killers can hit people in it. Just look at Nemmy or even Demmys shred, both could potentially hit the survivor in movement. While DH can ignore almost anything having to do with hits. It even allows one hit downs to be ignored, which the counter argument for that usually is “but why are you chasing a injured survivor” well Jimbo it’s because they all are potentially injured and my chainsaw/club demands blood. DH shouldn’t be tue best of the best. All exhaustion perks need there good points and bad. Same with regression perks.
Bruh how is w perk rewarding skillful play? It doesn't reward any of the basic survivor skills of the game (looping, gen dispersion), it's literally just a parry that would be better of in a fighting game of some RPG. Gee, you guessed a killer was going to swing at a pallet? You must be some sort of genius at this game!
I dont use DH, am often the last survivor, or the one saving the team.
Ya'll need to stop thinking exhaustion is required.
I would say the majority of my killer games it's against 3-4 DHs.
Ok, killers can also win with no slowdown, its just bad for a survivor to not bring an exhaustion perk.
I don't think pickrate should matter in balancing a perk.
PR is the most popular killer perk and i dont think it should get nerfed.
But, while i personally don't think DH is a problem, i also don't care at this point if they nerf it or rework it or whatever, but i really want them to keep the spirit of the perk intact in whatever they decide to do
I'm glad someone else thinks this way, you don't need eruption or dead hard to play this game and win, if someone feels they have to have a perk to play then it's a skill issue not a game balance issue
If the survivor is average or below in skill level yes. Otherwise there's a ton of other loadouts you can bring that are just as effective once you get good enough at looping.
BHVR does, though.
Also, if one perk is clearly picked way more than the others, it means there's an issue somewhere. Sometimes, that's literally just because it's comfortable--look at old BBQ. That's not why DH is run so much, though.
No, it's guaranteed, that's kind of the point. There's a wait that serves the sole purpose of "only an M1 at point blank can't be reacted to without cheats", and having to do it every chase is antithetical to the design of Killer powers and basic mechanics. That's why there's lunges. That's why powers that hit beyond point blank exist. That's why there are instadown powers, but if someone doesn't heal they get pulled into it too.
But this one perk has a stranglehold on how chases must be played out because it's so common. Every game. Even if nobody has it. People getting value, no matter how small, from a perk they don't have, because the only counterplay is "do nothing".
The same counterplay Eruption had, which was exactly the reason it got so much complaining. Eruption makes you wait 25s doing nothing in one big go, DH makes you wait 25s doing nothing spread out over the entire match if multiple people choose to bring it†
† Closing the gap from lunge range to M1 range is about 5m, and that's about 8s at 4.6m/s. Bloodlust speeds it up, but gets cancelled out by waiting for the actual animation after that and seeing if it happens. Waiting out 3 DH in one match = 1 Eruption. And like Eruption, it can happen again and again.
Ok, i will still bring SB or DH every game i dont really care.
And again, i don't doubt that you can win without exhaustion perks, but they are some of strongest perks survivors have for a reason. Of course people will want to bring one. And since they share the same cooldown you can really only bring one maybe two.
Its really not that surprising seeing those perks having that high of pickrate.
So, do you want PR nerfed? Is that what you are saying? I assume it is.
Also, when did BBQ get nerfed? Its literally the same perk it always was, its still in thee top 10 most used killer perks, its good wit many killers.
The survivor version, WGLF got a buff and now nobody uses it since its so niche and hard get use out of the effects
The issue with PR is the opposite direction, they've nerfed all the other regression perks and it's the only one a lot of Killers can actually get consistent value out of (plus it's not on a licensed Killer, that helps). And this is despite being a perk you can fail to use all game because of hook spawns--if the main regression perk is one that's dependent on favourable map RNG, you can see there's something up with the rest.
BBQ was nerfed in the big meta shakeup. Taking away its BP bonus was definitely a nerf, even if it didn't make it worse at finding people.
The problem is DH has a near monopoly on exhaustion perks and those are some of the strongest in the game. Going by nightlight which is only a small amount of players but we can assume it's some of the better players if they're bothering to upload their games and DH has a pickrate of 34.5% and the next highest pick exhaustion perk is lithe at only 17.2% and then SB at 13.1%. If DH was even remotely balanced the spread would not be that lopsided.
Are you saying that PR should be nerfed then? It is the most picked killer perk by that same logic.
I do think PR is fine, just curious to know
PR doesn't have the same kind of monopoly with a 27% pick rate but that also has to do with the nature of killer perks and the nature of survivor perks are not the same since you only want 1 exhaustion perk whereas stacking slowdowns is good.
Do I want PR nerfed? Personally yes I'd be fine with it but that's because I'd like if we got away from regression meta in general but at the same time I don't think PR is overpowered or anything and I think if you shift the general killer meta the pick rate could go down without touching it.
Hmm, i actually agree with everything you said.
On DH, honestly i dont really care at this point if they nerf it or not. I just like the perk because its fun to use and doesn't really annoy me personally as killer.
I just want the perk to still be fun, because honestly that is the only reason i like it more than the other exhaustion perks.
Even if i feel that i get better results with SB. DH a killer hit just gives a big serotonin rush that no other perk gives