BlueHorkew
BlueHorkew
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3325758#Comment_3325758
Mabye could add a cooldown then on the loud noise notification, I really feel like the notification should remain at least some what even if it's heavily nerfed
I really don't think its a good idea.
You can already make totems extremely hard to break with some killers like Doctor, Artist, Knight, teleporting killers, Demo.
It's way too dangerous to give notifications and slowdown.
The only notification that i think would be ok is on Dull totems. If you really want the notification back.
Simply some combos would be way too strong on certain Killers.
Another idea of perk to protect hexes that i had, if people want to hear:
After hooking a survivor all active Hexes become blocked and can't be interacted for 20/25/30 seconds. You see the aura of any survivor within 12 m of a Hex totem.
Thrill with passive information and slowdown would really create nightmare scenarios on some killers. Way too good for a passive perk.
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@BenSanderson55 said:
If it wasnt bad enough before with 3 potentially gen spawns in lobby, 2 spawn in most cases, now theres another which is just meters apart (bottom of stairs by green crates and one nearest gate). Not to mention the interrogation room can have one, 2 can spawn in that room with hole in wall next to lobby another in that hall just outside, one upstairs by puzzle & 3 lockers (good for teleporting/blink killers). Anyway just a bit ridiculous IMO.
On a side note HUD is great, now need to see others perks and Kindred basekit.
Yeah, RPD just has the worst gen spawns in the game. Its so easy to 3 or even 4 gen in that map. They really need to look at the gen spawns. The game just suddenly doesn't move.
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@BrownEncrustedBoxers said:
I pretty much play survivor and killer evenly. I don't complain about things being unfair one way or the other and chalk everything down to mechanics and whether or not I'm using them properly. When I get hooked early and sacrificed quickly as a survivor, I tell myself that the killer was better than me. I don't blame everything else. Likewise, when I can't sacrifice a single survivor as a killer I actually respect the survivors cause they whipped my ass.
BUT, I do have my concerns over this HUGE game changing buff for survivors, which essentially acts as a mic for everyone, not just as a killer.
As a solo queue survivor player, one of the things that I loved the most is not knowing exactly what my teammates were doing all of the time. It made me think on my toes and honestly gave me a bit of fear playing the game. You guys just basically took that away from me because now I'm gonna know what everyone is doing all of the time. No more questioning myself as to whether I should continue repairing, whether I should keep alert just in case the killer is nearby (if I know when teammates are being chased and I'm not in a terror radius, then I know I'm totally safe and just have to focus on skill checks, for example... it was already sort of a cheat with the obsession wiggly claw even though I couldn't help by use it). And to know if they are working on an exit door? I'll know instinctively to start moving towards it carefully. And if I know two others are working gens and one is hooked, I'll now *know* I should try to unhook then and let the others work. It's basically a cheat and takes the mystery out of it that provided that little bit of fear and adrenaline that made me want to play survivor.
Don't get me started on the impact this is going to have as a killer. We'll see how it goes, but I predict that, unless I'm in a lobby with noobs, I'm probably never going to get 4 hooks ever again. I'll be sure to let you know.
But ultimately my take on it is this: the survivor HUD takes the fun out of the game as a survivor because the whole survival/horror thing is dropped as paying attention to the eerie environment is no longer important, you just have to watch activity icons to know what to do next. It also kills the fun for a killer because you now know that all survivors are totally aware of what's happening all over the map, so you know you're not scaring anyone as a killer should do. It's just a plain video game made up of mechanics now.
Huge mistake in my opinion.
Well i can't agree with that. After the 6.1 update solo was the worst experience in this game. This HUD change atleast gives information for me to do something and not be in the dark of whats happening.
I can easily know if i have good teammates or not, know if we are doing good, have a notion of what is happening around the map.
In the end dumb teammates will be dumb teammates, but having all this information makes the experience less infuriating.
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@ViperTheCharon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3324860#Comment_3324860
I already did it. I broke down this overhaul into 3 parts: Killer Perks, Survivor Perks and Universal Perks. I know that it's long to read it but there's a lot of perks in this game and I can't really do anything about it.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3324919#Comment_3324919
Thrill of the Hunt changes came on 5.3.0 version and The Artist was added in 5.4.0 version, so The Artist wasn't the reason. Also I added restrictions to this perk that notifications only work when you are 32 metres away and those effects are not applied on Thrill of the Hunt's totem itself.
The devs were working on artist, and the changes are so close together that feels intentional.
Still, not a good idea. With killers like dredge, artist, knight they can basically camp something and totens at the same time. That information is way to much with the penalty to speed.
My suggestion, if you want to take it.
Make Thrill of the Hunt and retribution not hex perks, but perks that interact with totens.
Something like this.
Thrill of the hunt: Makes blessing and cleansing actions by survivors 30/40/50% slower.
Retribution: When a survivor initiates a blessing/cleansing action on a totem, they suffer from the oblivious status effect for 40/50/60 seconds. If the survivor finishes the cleansing/blessing action you see the aura of every survivor for 10 seconds.
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@ViperTheCharon said:
So, Dbd has 219 perks in total at the moment of posting this discussion and the first half of them are pretty busted and annoying, on the other hand they are absolute weak. The order of the list will be sected from the first to recently released. Hope you have fun or dread reading over my ideas. (There won't be few perks in this list due to them being fine at the moment).
KILLER PERKS:
Bitter Murmur: Unlocks potential in your Aura-reading ability:
- Each time a Generator is completed, the Auras of all Survivors within 16 metres of that Generator are revealed to you for 6/8/10 seconds.
- Once the last Generator is completed, the Auras of all Survivors are revealed to you for 10 seconds.
Claustrophobia: *CHECK PART 1 TO SEE IT'S CHANGES*
Deerstalker: Unlocks potential in your Aura-reading ability:
- The Auras of all Survivors in the Dying State within 20/28/36 metres of your location are revealed to you.
- Gain a Loud Noise Notification, whenever Survivors in the Dying State are being healed.
Distressing: Your horrifying emanation strikes at a supernaturally long distance.
- Increases your Terror Radius by 8/12/16 metres.
- Grants 50/75/100 % bonus Bloodpoints for all actions in the Deviousness Category.
Hex: No One Escapes Death: A Hex rooting its power on hope. You are animated by the power of your Hex Totem when the Survivors are on the verge of escaping.
Once the Exit Gates are powered, Hex: No One Escapes Death activates:
- Increases your Movement speed by 2/3/4 %.
- Survivors are notified and suffer from a permanent Exposed Status Effect.
Hex: No One Escapes Death remains inactive if no Dull Totems are available.
Hex: No One Escapes Death reveals the Aura of its Hex Totem to all Survivors within 4 metres and gradually expands that range to 24 metres over the course of 30 seconds.
The Hex effects persist until its Hex Totem is cleansed.
"And the beast became faster and more powerful as if The Entity's shadowy whips were lashing at its back."
Hex: Thrill of the Hunt: A Hex rooting its power on hope. The false hope of Survivors fills you with excitement and strengthens your Totems.
Survivors suffer from a 40/45/50 % Action Speed penalty to Cleansing and Blessing.
Whenever a Survivor interacts with a Hex while you are 32 metres away, gain a Loud Noise Notification.
Hex: Thrill of the Hunt is not applied with those effects.
The Hex effects persist until its Hex Totem is cleansed.
Insidious: Unlocks your stealth ability:
- Grants the Undetectable Status Effect for 60 seconds At the start of the Trial.
- Extends the duration of all other Undetectable Status Effects by 3/4/5 seconds.
Iron Grasp: Your powerful grasp on Survivors causes escapes to be nearly impossible.
While carrying a Survivor, you benefit from the following effects:
- Decreases Wiggle effects, which cause you to strafe sideways, by 100 %.
- Increases Wiggle duration by 9/12/15 %.
Spies from the Shadows: The Crows found in the Trial Grounds can communicate with you directly.
Crows startled by Survivors within 20/28/36 metres alert you with a Loud Noise Notification and reveal that Survivor's Aura for 5 seconds.
Spies from the Shadows has a cool-down of 5 seconds between alerts.
"In the shadows they torment, scarring our minds with each scream."
Unrelenting: You recuperate faster from missed attacks made with your main weapon.
Reduces the Cool-down of missed Basic Attacks by 20/25/30 %.
Reduces the Cool-down of successful Basic Attacks by 15 %.
*SAVE THE BEST FOR LAST CHANGES IN PART 1*
Whispers: You have a rudimentary understanding of The Entity's voice.
You hear directional whispers of the Entity whenever at least one Survivor is within 48/40/32 metres of your location.
Whispers tells the direction of the nearest survivor from your location.
"It is unclear as to the motivations of The Fog, but it is undeniable that it often takes the beast's side." — Unknown, Notebook
SURVIVOR PERKS:
Dark Sense: Unlocks potential in your Aura-reading ability:
Each time a Generator is completed, Dark Sense activates:
The Aura of the Killer is revealed to you for 6/8/10 seconds, as soon as they come within 24 metres of you, after which Dark Sense deactivates.
"Take it from an old-timer: Slow down, don't rush and try not to worry so much! The best way to beat him is to know how he thinks." — Murf, The Lost Tapes
Déjà Vu: Paranoia paired with your horror of failure helps prepare you from repeating the same mistakes.
Unlocks potential in your Aura-reading ability:
- The Auras of the 3 Generators in closest proximity to one another are revealed to you for 60 seconds at the start of the Trial, and each time a Generator is completed.
- Increases your Repair speed on those Generators by 6/8/10 % while active.
- If you are holding a Map, all Generators revealed by Déjà Vu are automatically added to it.
Guardian: *CHECK PART 2 TO SEE IT'S CHANGES*
Inner Healing: *CHECK PART 2 TO SEE IT'S CHANGES*
Kinship: *CHECK PART 2 TO SEE IT'S CHANGES*
No One Left Behind: It is inconceivable to leave someone behind.
Once the Exit Gates are powered, No One Left Behind activates:
- Increases your Unhooking and Healing speed by 30/40/50 %.
- Grants 100 % bonus Bloodpoints for actions in the Altruism Category.
- Grants the unhooked Survivor a 7 % Haste Status Effect for 10 seconds.
- The Auras of all other Survivors are revealed to you.
"Yeah, no #########. But I believe we can outsmart and overthrow him if we work together. Don't be predictable and selfish!" — Clyde, The Lost Tapes
Plunderer's Instinct: Unlocks potential in your Aura-reading ability:
The Auras of closed Chests and dropped Items in the environment within 24/28/32 metres of your location are revealed to you.
Grants a 75 % better chance at finding an Item of a higher Rarity from Chests.
"The pioneers used to loot these babies for hours." — Aizeyu, The Lost Tapes
Premonition: You have the undeniable capability to sense danger.
Receive an auditory warning while in the Killer's 24 metre radius.
Premonition has a cool-down of 30/25/20 seconds each time it activates.
"I have a bad feeling about this!"
Renewal: *CHECK PART 2 TO SEE IT'S CHANGES*
Resilience: You are motivated in dire situations.
- Increases your Action speeds in Repairing, Healing, Sabotaging, Unhooking, Vaulting, Cleansing, Blessing, Opening, and Unlocking by 4/5/6 % when in the Injured State.
- You suffer from Haemmorhage Status Effect while in the Injured State.
"Focus, even in these desperate times."
Situational Awareness: *CHECK PART 2 TO SEE IT'S CHANGES*
Slippery Meat: You have developed an efficient way to get off Hooks.
- Grants 3 additional Self-Unhook attempts.
- Increases the Self-Unhook chance by 2/3/4 % for each failed attempt.
Small Game: You have the undeniable capability to sense danger.
- Receive an auditory warning upon looking in the direction of Totems in a 45 ° cone within 12 metres and reveal it's aura for 5 seconds.
- Small Game has a cool-down of 14/12/10 seconds each time it activates.
For each Dull or Hex Totem cleansed by any Player, Small Game gains 1 Token:
- Each Token decreases the Detection cone's angle by 5 °, down to a minimum of 20 °.
"Nope." — Andy, The Lost Tapes
Spine Chill: An unnatural tingle warns you of impending doom.
Whenever the Killer is within 36 metres of your location, Spine Chill activates, lighting up its icon.
If there is a Terror Radius present, Spine Chill will reveal its intensity using its icon.
If the Killer is within range and looking at you with a clear line of sight, you benefit from the following effect:
- Increases your Action speeds in Repairing, Healing, Sabotaging, Unhooking, Cleansing, Blessing, Opening, Vaulting and Unlocking by 2/3/4 %.
- This effect lingers for 0.5 seconds.
"There is a voice that doesn't use words. Listen.." — Sassy, The Lost Tapes
This Is Not Happening: You perform at your best when you are under extreme stress.
Increases the Success zone of Great Skill Checks while Repairing and Healing by 30/40/50 % when in the Injured State.
We'll Make It: Helping others heightens your morale.
Increases your Altruistic Healing speed by 100 % for the next 40/50/60 seconds whenever you rescue another Survivor from a Hook.
"I am confident we can all escape in one piece if we help each other."
Want to see other parts? Check these out:
Part 1- (Killer Perks): ->CLICK THIS YELLOW TEXT<-
Part 2- (Survivor Perks): ->CLICK THIS YELLOW TEXT<-
You can't give notifications to Thrill, that was removed because of artist.
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@SirCracken said:
Blindness is the weakest status effect in the game right now. Being able to hide auras from survivors is a very small effect that is impossible to notice in most games. Even if several survivors are running aura perks such as Bond and Kindred, there's no way to tell that their perks are being countered because Blindness doesn't have any visual tells. Outside of running a dedicated slugging build there's little to no benefit to making survivors blind.
Haemorrhage was buffed to not only be significantly better but also causes survivors to bleed more visually if their healing is interrupted. I believe that Blindness should get a similar treatment. My recommendation for a buff is in three parts:
1 - Blindness fully obscures the survivor HUD
Survivor portraits and perks are now hidden for the duration of blindness. Preventing the afflicted survivor from seeing the status of their fellow survivors and if any of the perks they have equipped are active. Such as Spine Chill.
2 - Other status effects are hidden as long as Blindness is active
Any status effects that inflicts the blinded survivor are not shown to them. Allowing synergies with perks and add-ons that cause other powerful status effects such as Oblivious and Exposed. This would also include getting Marked by Ghostface, Condemned by Sadako, and infected by Wesker. Preventing the afflicted survivor from knowing how much any killer power is affecting them.
3 - Blinded survivors have a unique icon next to their portrait as long as they are blinded
This will let the killer know which survivors are blinded and for how long. Giving Blindness a much needed visual que and allowing the killer to capitalize when a survivor is blinded.
I find it funny that now killers complain about Windows being OP and yet the best counter to it needs buffs. But sure.
Idea 1 only affects solo queue, congrats you make solo queue more terrible and people will just go to SWF more.
Idea 2 goes against all currents rules of blindness and would make characters like Pig really obnoxious
Idea 3, again no other status gives information to the killer so its inconsistent.
Blindness is not amazing for killer for two reasons:
Not great ways of applying it- You have fearmonger (probably the best) and third seal, or you have to use an add-on slot. So most killers wouldn't get great effect from it unless you want to do a slugging build. Which again, SWF ruins all your effort.
Second and most important, survivors have way less natural aura reading abilities then killers. Killers have way more natural aura reading and better aura reading perks, so survivors getting a blindness to the killer is valuable (Distortion, Shadow step, residual manifest wishes it could be here but no that one just sucks). Survivors have very limited aura abilities which resumes to downed survivors and hooked survivors so the only benefit killers would get is blocking perks which to fair they have introduced a few new good ones in the more recent chapters like Wiretap, Fogwise and the new popularity of Windows.
Blindness as an effect is fine, its not like haemorrage which was completely useless before the rework, it does its job and does it well. The problem is that is hard make it do its job and the job is niche in the first place.
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@Blueberry said:
-Killer edition-
There will be a survivor version to follow.
Disclaimers:
- These are not necessarily the "best" changes possible, but simply the best changes for the least amount of developer time invested. Trying to get more perks into the viable category, ie buffing/reworking weak perks that are barely used. This isn't a post for nerfing any overperforming perks nor is it implying perks don't need nerfs. We're just focusing on weak ones here and diversifying the meta by giving more perk options.
- I will be constantly updating/changing/adding to the list as I have more time and as feedback is received. Please stick to constructive criticism for changes. IE, this is good or bad and why.
- Keep in mind that even though some of these may seem heavy handed that they are competing with regression perks for a perk slot. They need to be close in terms of the amount of time saved to compete with those.
Nurses Calling: 28 meter range ----> Now 32
Not a bad perk, but still rarely seen. Not a significant buff, but a little. I also think with how good Distortion is it's very hard for aura perks to ever get too out of control as if they ever got meta Distortion can completely shut them down. For this reason I'll be a little more giving in terms of buffing aura perks in general going forward.
Awakened Awareness: Return the few seconds of aura reading extension after carrying a survivor.
This was originally removed because of Nurse. However, we shouldn't be building/nerfing an entire game around 1 single killer, that isn't good design. Nurse needs changes separately.
BBQ: 4 sec aura reading ----> Additional effect: the minimum range for the aura reading will shrink slightly for each unique survivor hook.
Since the removal of the BP bonus this perk has basically disappeared. This further encourages "fair" game play. It's also competing against gen regression perks for a slot.
Beast of Prey: In addition to its current effect, gain Undetectable for 10 seconds after dropping a chase.
Triggers very often but for a very short duration. Gives some potential target swapping mind games.
Blood Echo: 45 sec duration ----> 60 sec duration. Removal of the cooldown.
This rewards a killer for applying split pressure instead of tunneling people out, this is the kind of game play we want to encourage. Also has the counter play of simply healing.
Blood Warden: Should be active as soon as the gates are powered, not open, but doesn't start the 60 second block until the gate is opened. In addition there will be a gate block of 15 seconds added for any future hooks. If it's currently blocked this adds to the timer and if it's open it just blocks for those 15 seconds.
Bloodhound: In addition to its current effect it now gives blood aura reading at a very short range, something like 15 meters.
This perk is basically non existent and this might give it some actually tracking use for people that stay injured or mind games at loops. It also makes blood last significantly longer so the blood auras aren't going to be super accurate all the time.
Brutal Strength: 20% increased break speed ---> 35% break speed
Pretty underwhelming perk and still not used enough. Little umph.
Claustrophobia: Instead of vault locations being blocked around the completed gen they will now be blocked for the duration around the killer.
Give it more use since you rarely need vault locations blocked around a gen already completed.
Coulrophobia: Effect will linger for 10 seconds after leaving the killers TR.
A lingering effect like this needs to honestly be applied to almost all aura effecting perks to make them more consistent. People don't heal in a killers TR.
Coup De Grace: Now gives tokens per hook instead of gen completion.
Just a terrible perk. Giving it a little more consistency. Everyone hates the current token system.
Dark Devotion: Undetectable on Obsession hit is currently 30 seconds -----> 60 second duration
Not rewarding enough for the inconsistency of the perk.
Deathbound: Remove the stipulation that the Oblivious is only active when away from the healed survivor.
Deerstalker: 36 meter range ---> No range limit and slows slugged crawl speed by 50%
Dissolution: Remove the 3 second delay on hit for the perk to activate.
Needs more consistency, you're rarely getting value.
Dragon's Grip: Cooldown of 80 seconds ---> 30 seconds
Dying Light: Remove the healing and unhooking bonus to the Obsession and the perk no longer deactivates when the Obsession dies, the perk simply freezes wherever it was at with tokens and you can't gain any more.
The perk isn't good enough to warrant all the downsides it has. It needs to be a perk with very little effect early on and only becomes noticeable if you can keep the game going long enough.
Fearmonger: Duration of 5 seconds ---> 15 seconds
Enduring: 50% stun reduction ---> 70% stun reduction and is now active even while carrying a survivor.
Fire Up: Just upping the numbers to actually matter. 4% ----> 8%
This now makes the percentage actually relevant and moves its strength from late game to early game.
Forced Penance: Now also applies the Oblivious status for the same Broken duration.
This is an extremely inconsistent perk with protection hits very rarely happening. For how situational it is the effect needs to be significant in those situations as it's currently not.
Furtive Chase: The TR reduction is now outside of chase instead of in chase.
This makes it irrelevant early game but the longer the game lasts the more effective it becomes.
Gearhead: Remove the stipulation of requiring an injured survivor to activate it, it's just always active.
This makes it very good against good survivors and bad against bad survivors, just the kind of design we're looking for.
Grim Embrace: On top of its current effect it now also blocks all gens for 20 seconds for each first hook on a new survivor.
This gives it the same blocking power of Corrupt and Deadlock but unlike those you're only getting that effect by playing in an extremely fair way and splitting hooks instead of tunneling 1 person. This encourages fun game play and rewards the killer for doing it.
Hangmans Trick: 6 meters around a hook ---> 10 meters
Needs more consistency.
Hex Crowd Control: Now blocks windows for any type of vault, not just fast ones and duration is raised to 30 seconds instead of 20. All vaulting speeds for survivors are lowered by 20 percent as well.
This is a hex perk, it needs to be significant in effect for how fast it can be gone.
Hex Face the Darkness: Screams trigger every 25 seconds with auras shown for 2 seconds ---> Every 15 seconds they scream and auras shown for 3 seconds.
Not good enough for being a hex that can be removed immediately.
Hex Huntress Lullaby: 6% regression ---> 10% regression, also has no token build up and just has the 5 token effect by default.
Not good enough for being a hex.
Hex Retribution: Oblivious when interacting with a dull totem for 45 seconds ---> Oblivious when interacting with any totem period and Oblivious effect is now 60 seconds. Hex Retribution is no longer a hex perk itself.
This gives the perk more umph and consistency with the perk itself not being removable too early.
Hex Ruin: 100% regression ---> 200% regression
The perk wasn't over tuned and only rewarded players who were good at pressuring multiple survivors. Just tunneling one person out makes you get very little effect out of this perk. We are also leaving the additional new effect on, so if anyone is killed it cleanses itself.
Hex Third Seal: No longer requires a hit and is active on all survivors from the start of the match. The blindness effect also hides survivor huds and the ping effect survivors see when a survivor is hooked.
This makes the perk more consistent by getting value out of it immediately and the blindness now actually adds more confusion than previously as they can't tell who's injured or on the ground.
Hex Thrill of the Hunt: Same effect, but is no longer a hex itself.
This makes it more consistent in protecting your other totems as the perk itself will give you its full value.
Hoarder: Additionally interacting with any chest or item on the ground will trigger Hoarder and injure the survivor as a trap. Cannot down any survivor however, only healthy to injured status.
Hubris: 20 second duration ---> 40 second duration and no cooldown
Sounds extreme but once they know you have this perk they just pre drop everything and you get zero value.
Hysteria: Lasts 30 seconds with a 30 second cooldown ---> Lasts 45 seconds, no cooldown
Easily countered by healing.
I'm All Ears: Cooldown of 40 seconds ----> Cooldown removed
More consistent value. It's competing against gen slow down perks.
Iron Maiden: Survivors leaving lockers are Exposed for 30 seconds ----> Exposed effect removed, instead the killer is granted Undetectable for 60 seconds and the survivors aura is shown for 8 seconds.
Once they see the Exposed or how fast you open lockers they know you have this perk and won't use lockers again heavily limiting your value. 30 seconds of Exposed is also rarely ever enough to do anything. This allows you to get value from it without that survivor knowing immediately that you have it further increasing your chance of continuously getting value from it. Still will be very easy for the survivors to see you have it with how fast you open lockers and survivors in general don't use lockers too often.
Lethal Pursuer: Small wording change. Instead of aura timed durations increased by 2 seconds, it will now just make aura effects linger for 2 seconds longer.
Seems minor but actually creates more synergy with other perks and addons. Now it's not just working with timed aura durations but also makes aura effects linger. For example, things like Nurses Calling aren't timed aura durations so they wouldn't have been effected, but now with this change after they stop healing in your TR the auras would still linger for 2 seconds longer.
Lightborn: It now shows the survivors that they have blinded you just like it would have appeared normally if you weren't running the perk. This allows you to get more consistent value from the perk because when the survivor tries to blind you they won't immediately know that you're running the perk. Also when they try to blind you, gain a 5% speed increase for 8 seconds.
Mad Grit: Additional effect. While carrying a survivor your hits will down survivors.
Still an extremely nitch perk but there for the people that never want to get body blocked. Also the entire team will know you have it after getting its effect even once meaning you'll never see it again.
Oppression: Cooldown of 80 seconds ---> 40 seconds
One of the weaker slow down perks and would still be one of the weaker ones after this. Giving it a little more umph.
Overwhelming Presence: Survivors in your TR are effected ---> map wide
Honestly not good enough for such a limitation. Still very niche even with this.
Predator: Additional effect. Now also increases the sound of running and walking footsteps.
Remember Me: Each Obsession hit increases gate opening time by 4 seconds up to a maximum of 16 seconds ---> Gates take 12 seconds longer to open and you gain 12 additional seconds perk Obsession hit up to a maximum of 48 seconds added. Gates now also regress at 50% of the normal rate if not opened.
Not adding as much as No Way Out does, but giving it the added bonus of gate regression to play around.
Scourge Hook Gift of Pain: The survivor suffers a 16% penalty to healing and repairing actions each time they are unhooked until healed, not just the first time they are healed until injured as it currently is.
Perk needs more consistency, it's currently just not good enough to warrant the slow down only happening once.
Septic Touch: These effects linger for 10 seconds after a healing action is interrupted by any means ---> These effects linger for 30 seconds after a healing action is interrupted by any means or completed. This aura effect lingers on survivors for 10 seconds after leaving the killers TR.
Still probably bad, trying to give it something.
Shattered Hope: Whenever you snuff a boon, all survivor auras are shown to you for 8 seconds, not just those in the totems radius. Also allows the killer to break dull totems.
Needed more. Current iteration is too situational and even in its good situation underwhelming.
Spies from the Shadows: 36 meter range for a visual queue and a 5 second cooldown ---> Map wide, aura reveal of that survivor for 8 seconds and no cooldown.
Was too situation for a weak effect. Now it's more consistent and an effect you can capitalize on more.
Surveillance: Doesn't deactivate on gens that reach 0% regression. Essentially the effect lasts until touched.
Just some more consistency, rarely is it used.
Terminus: The broken status will last the rest of the match instead of just 30 seconds after gates are opened. Additionally any survivor injured while this perk is active will be broken for 30 seconds.
No one uses this. You need lots of people broken when the last gen pops to even see value out of this period. It needed a lot more consistency.
Territorial Imperative: New Effect to replace the old. After a survivor is rescued from a basement hook and you are at least 32 meters away you gain Undetectable until you injure or down a survivor.
This rewards you for basement hooking and not camping. Good design.
Thanatophobia: Revert the last nerf.
Even in its last form and on the best killers for it (plague and legion) it wasn't overpowered. Even our current gen regression perks are better than that old combo. No one uses this perk anymore, it's just bad.
Thrilling Tremors: Blocks gens not being repaired for 16 seconds, cooldown of 60 seconds ---> Blocks gen not being repaired for 25 seconds, no cooldown, but can only be triggered once per survivor per down.
Removed the cooldown and increases the duration for more consistency but with a stipulation to prevent abuse.
Trail of Torment: No longer shows the gen highlighted in yellow to the survivors. Cooldown of 60 sec ---> 45 sec
Showing the survivors you're running the perk and when it's active defeats the entire point.
Unnerving Presence: 10% greater chance of triggering skill checks ---> 20% chance. Aura effect of this also now lingers for 10 seconds after survivors leave the killers TR.
Needed more consistency. Also still has the downside of actually helping survivors if they're good at skill checks.
Unrelenting: 30% reduced cd on missed swings ---> 50%
Opinions:
- Nurse's is fine for the most part, but a small number up wouldn't be the end;
- Awakened- i assume that will be done eventually
- Beast of Prey- Meh
- BBQ- Yes pls, bring back BBQ tokens
- Blood Echo - Make the duration match the cooldown, being able to constantly apply it with no cooldown would be absurd
- Blood Warden - That is very complicated to understand, and the survivors have very few ways to counterplay it. The perk is fine, if a perk ever comes out that promotes opening the gates instead of 99 them, the perk would increase in popularity
- Bloodhound: What do you mean? Seeing blood through walls, with certain killers that attack through walls thats basically infinite wall hacks in loops. Nurse, PH, Artist, Spirit. Many killers would be broken with an ability like that
- Brutal Strength: I see tons of high level killers using it, its a good perk. Also doubling the numbers?
- Claustrophobia: Could work
- Coulrophobia: This perk is not used because its niche, with that effect on some builds i some maps the effect is just permanent. Also new players would hate healing slow and not being able to do skill checks.
- Coup de grace: Sure
- Dark devotion: Yeah the duration should be higher, its an obsession perk
- Deathbound: Yeah, dumb restriction
- Deerstalker: Slugging? Better not touch, could be dangerous
- Dissolution: That won't do much besides maybe Plague. Good survivors wouldn't break their own pallets for you when they know you are in a 3 sec cooldown
- Dragon's grip: With a cooldown that short you would have the perk up all the time, way too strong for 3 gen situations. The current meta
- Dying Light: Sure, i guess
- Fearmonger: 15 seconds is way too much for a passive perk
- Enduring: Again, the perk is good, no changes needed
- Forced Penance: Its more of a tournament or against SWF perk. It does it job well
- Furtive chase: If you do that, then the perk can't stack with monitor.
- Gearhead: Hmmm, you made the perk less interesting
- Grim Embrace: Hahaha, imagine that with Deadlock, survivors would always have their gens blocked. Thats so broken in so many ways.
- Fire Up: You are doubling the numbers
- crowd Control: That is way too strong
- Face the Darkness: Combo of Hexes + Thrill, Congrats, hexes are now uncleansable with all the screaming interrupting actions
- Huntress Lullaby: 20% loss of progress per skill check? Yikes, people will just DC against doctor, and no build up required
- Retribution: Actually really like this one, but with the aure revealed and consistency i am not sure you would need to buff the oblivious effect
- Third Seal: Hmmm, Slugging. Too strong against Solo, SWF wouldn't care about any of those effects.
- Thrill: Again cool, but i already said a big problem before
- Hoarder: Are you a pinhead player? So everyone that picks the box is now oblivious and injured? No, just no
- Hubris: Why should the survivor be punished for playing good? Also congrats, survivors will pre drop every pallet and Shift W, with perks like those, thats what is going to happen. And again, 40 sec for the killer ######### up
- Hysteria: Ok, those cooldowns are in place for a reason, to stop them from being permanent. Every other change like that is the response
- I am all ears: Broken with many Killers, needs a cooldown. Its already used by many PH and nurses, like that it would be busted.
- Iron Maiden: The perk is only used for reloading fast.
- Lethal: The devs put that restrition and talked about it. And the perk is good, why are you buffing it?
- Lightborn: Meh
- Madgrit: Thats Starstruck
- Overwhelming: Needs a requirement to activate, or nerf the perk. You can't just make it map wide without more changes
- Remember Me: Hmm, not sure
- Gift of Pain: So instead of the giving a penalty for healing you are incentive survivors to heal? Don't understand
- Septic Touch: Meh, i would prefer removig the TR requirement, let stealth killers use it, instead of buffing the numbers
- Shattered Hope: I Like it, but if you can create pentimento tokens with this, big no
- Spies: That is just permanent aura reading, map wide. Yikes that is so busted. Nurse players rejoice
- Surveillance: Thats cool and all but COB does that and regresses, so maybe bhvr should decide which one should do what
- Terminus: Decide, its permanent or not? Also whats the point of that buff? Securing a kill? I don't see much more reason for a survivor to wait 30 sec with the exit gates open
- Territorial: Cool, i like it
- Thanato: F...ing no
- Ruin: It would need an added downside to not be like old ruin (I suggest a cap in the regression the perk can make)
- Thrilling: The perk is good, its a location perk. And a really good one
- Trail: Maybe
- Unnnerving: What i said about the doctor, blah, blah, blah
- Unrelenting: Why?
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Cool idea, seems fair but maybe too much counterplay to a limited buff.
I would suggest giving it a secondary effect like the rework to letal or remove the survivor aura reading and becomes an early game advantage like Corrupt
@The_Killer_Legacy said:
Hurry for Kill: The killer starts the match with 6% haste. All survivors can see the killer aura while the perk is active. The perk deactivates permanently when the killer performs a basic or special attack or a survivor loses a health state by any means.
Now let's analyze the Scenarios of this perk:
How this perk can be too strong if combined with these perks:
Play With Your Food: If the killer finds the obsession right away, he can get very fast pretty fast, but since Hurry For Kill deactivates once a survivor is injured, it wouldn't be too problematic, unless the killer decides to not injure a survivor, which doesn't seem very productive.
Lethal Pursuer: The killer can see all survivors at the start of the match and rush towards them, but since survivors can see the killer's aura, they will know he has Hurry For Kill and preemptly run towards a tile to try and delay the killer before he can get a hit.
Could this perk be problematic on these killers? :
- Wraith: He is an undetectable killer, so survivors won't see his aura when he is invisible, but honestly, most matches Wraith just gets survivors off guard anyway and getting a hit, so if anything Hurry For Kill would just make he get a hit earlier.
- Hillbilly: A Chainsaw killer who can one shot you if he gets really close to you, so when he makes a survivor lose a healthstate, it will probably be to down a survivor right away. Survivors can see his aura, so they only have to run to a safe tile where he cannot use his chainsaw very easily, like windows for example, to force him to M1 you, which makes him deactivate the perk, and if he doesn't want to M1 in these situations, then the survivor is succesfully wasting the killer time while the other survivors are doing the gens. If the survivor wants to camp a pallet as well, they can force him to kick it instead of chainsawing if he doesn't wannna lose the perk by doing an attackm there is also the fact that if he misses once, the perk is deactivated.
- Nurse: Pretty simple, the Nurse is a powerful killer already, she can already get hits pretty early with her power alone when she finds a survivors, so it wouldn't be that powerful with her. Furthermore, it goes away when she gets a hit, so she wouldn't be more problematic.
- Myers: Another Undetectable killer, but only on Tier 1, so he won't be as fast with the 6% haste effect. Again, this would only make him get a hit earlier, than the perk will deactivate.
- Specific Scenarios with Myers:
- If Myers is doing a only Tier 1 on specific maps (Like Lery's, The Game, Midwitch), then he is a slightly faster Tier 1 Myers. but as soon as he gets a hit, It's deactivated.
- If Myers is doing a Double Iridescent Build, It's tricky, but It's not as bad as it sounds. Since Myers will only be stalking and not attacking at all, he won't lose the effects of the perk ever, until he gets a mori, but since he will not be in Tier 1, all survivors will be able to see his aura the entire match, it will be easier to preemptly run away from him and put obstacles between you and him to delay him of getting stalk, and also, since everyone can see the killer, it will be easier to focus on gens seeing the killer is chasing someone else and run away when needed.
- Leatherface: This one has the potential of being problematic. Bubba has a chainsaw who can easily down a survivor and, unlike Billy, the chainsaw has more control. I think the best way to counter this is kinda the same as Billy, trying to force a M1 and playing super safe. But there's a bright side on this, if Bubba wants to keep his speed, he won't be able to activate his chainsaw to break pallets. So it will be easier to camp pallets for him to kick, or make him M1. Again, his aura can be seen during this time.
- Pig: She also has an undetectable ability, but It's more difficult for her to use her crouch on chase, so most times you will be able to see her aura anyway.
- Plague: She can use her vile purge to infect survivors and not lose the perk speed until the survivors gets Broken. I think survivors can counter this the same way they would if she was using the same strategy and she wasn't using this perk, running to a tile and being super safe. Remembering that survivors can see the killer aura at all times when the perk is active and Plague loses the speed once the survivor becomes Broken.
- Ghostface: One more Undetectable killer, once he activates Night Shroud, survivors cannot see his aura. The way to counter him is to just be always aware of your surroundings, if you find him just reveal him in time, and he will be forced to wait until his power recharges(in which case its just like you had revealed him if he didn't have the perk with the exception that you can now see his aura and run in time for a tile), or M1 right away (in which case the perk is deactivated.) So in my opinion it doesn't sound as strong on him as it seems.
- Oni: Maybe the killer who would benefit the most from this perk. Since this perk only helps to get the first hit on the match, it won't help Oni for the remaining of the match, in the middle of the match for instance when everyone gets healed. But other than helping Oni get his first blood orbs, this perks will help him as much as the other 4.6 killers who don't have a M2 ability to injure survivors. So the counter to this is to play it safe as well, run to safe tiles and try to delay the killer first hit.
- Blight: Same thing as Nurse. This killer already can get hits very early, so the benefit he would get is not that high since it doesn't guarantee a down.
- Onryo: Last Undetectable killer. Same thing as wraith, she has the potential to get survivors off guard and just get a hit anyway, but unlike Wraith, she doesn't get a speed boost when undetectable, so it won't help her as much. If anything, this perk will her as a killer who is arguably weak compared to the others.
How can Survivors counter this perk? :
- Since survivors can see the killer aura at all times while the perk is active, they can prepare themselves accordingly. If they see the killer far away and chasing other survivor (with the HUD update that's coming), they can safely sit on a gen and work on it while the killer is doing something else. And if the survivor sees the killer is going towards their direction, they can preemptly run to a tile (preferably one with walls), and try to delay the killer of the hit for as long as they can, with the aura reading helping them in chase.
How much this perk would help the killer? :
- I think this is straight forward. The design of this perk is to help killers get the first hit early in the game, I don't think it is as problematic as it sounds to give a killer a free early game speed as this doesn't guarantee a down, it just helps the killer early game where he has no pressure on survivors, and It's not like it could be that abusable since survivors can see the killer aura, so in loops with walls, its easier to mindgame the killer and make it difficult for him to use their granted speed. When the killer finally gets the hit the perk deactivates, so it won't help him anymore, and the killer is left with 3 perks remaining. There is also the fact that this perk kinda forces the killer to a certain playstyle, so survivors can take advantage of that, for instance, if the killer doesn't wanna lose their speed, they won't do their M2 abilities to break pallets, opting to a slower way of breaking the pallet with a kick.
- The killers who would benefit the most from this: Undetectable killers, One-Shot Down killers, 4.4 killers, and Oni.
- The killer who would benefit the least from this: Legion.
Conclusion: I think this would be a great addition of a perk if added to the game. Not too strong as it is a perk that goes away, and not too weak as well as it helps the killer early game. What are your thoughts on Hurry for Kill?
Still cool idea
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3320346#Comment_3320346
That "vicious cycle" is what is called "meta", the most efficient way of playing. As an asymmetric game, this game has "two metas", the survivors one (right now, gen progression) and the killer one (gen regression).
And you would be right about the "fun" part if it wasn't because nobody has said that Eruption "makes playing easier" or more fun to play killer. Is just the best perk in the current killer meta and the most efficient to counter the current survivor meta. It has nothing to do with "fun".
But I agree with you in the other thing you said: What they should do is with the next chapter patch is rework both metas in tandem to force the shift to a new meta. Until then, Eruption would stay as the best way to counter survivors's gen rush meta.
At least we can agree on that.
I really hate this two metas and i hope we can get a meta more focused on chases and interactions, instead of the numbers game and all the accessories you brought.
Still a perk can have a function and not be so obnoxious for the other side. Eruption can be gen regression or gen blocking perk (a mini deadlock on downs).
For me rework/nerf COB eruption and overcharge, buff Ruin and POP
Rework BNPs so they don't give progress (make a gen stop regressing at 50%), make hyperfocus not work with toolboxes and should be fine.
Also if bhvr wants to keep releasing gen perks, but doesn't want to increase gen rush they could just had perks that counter regression instead.
Gen rush and gen stall is not fun for anyone.
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3320207#Comment_3320207
False Equivalency. Camping to get one kill still results in a certain amount of game throwing. Those perks you mentioned do not require any sacrifice whatsoever.
Depends on the situation, camping doesn't always result in game throwing. Hell if you get a hook grab, you got an insane reward for doing nothing.
Want to camp to force survivors into doing something risky, get a trade or get people off gens fine.
Don't rely on a dumb mini game of rock paper scissors with the ping
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3320384#Comment_3320384
I did not say you invented them. I said your attempt to equate them to each other is false.
Wanting hook grabs is not the same as saying Killers should win chases because of Bloodlust 2 & 3.
You are trying to claim these are two equal things that paint Killers as hypocrites, and you're wrong. Removing hook grabs & removing Bloodlust 2 & 3 would be massive Killer nerfs that are being pushed because Survivors want easier games now that they got BHVR to nerf Nurse again.
I am not asking for them to remove bloodlust.
But if bloodlust is in the game to make sure infinites aren't a thing and a killer will catch the survivor inevitable, you can't then say that the survivor deserves to die because he got caught once.
The objective of the killer is to be efficient and create pressure to kill all survivors. I am ok that even if a survivor is the best looper in town they should only delay the killer, making him waste time. So if the survivor did good, the killer doesn't get to claim that he should be a free kill.
Again, removing hook grabs is only good for everyone, again killers should get rewards for unique hooks. A lot of people say it and i agree, promote killers and help killers spread the pressure. But hook grabs need to go away, they don't have any skill for either side, its just a roullete of luck and ping. Rock paper scissors in a video game. Also they already removed a similar mechanic with the hatch escape.
Camping should have a consistent reward and risk.
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3320334#Comment_3320334
False equivalency, but have fun with that.
I didn't invente any of those statements.
So the only thing i know is that killers want guaranteed kills and survivors not being able to interact is ok.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/361343/eruption-is-fine-sarcasm
Ironically, the counterplay for Eruption is precisely completing your main objective as survivor with no requirements: Just do the gen. Kicking a gen has always a price: Giving time to the survivors to hide or gain distance as you would stop and focus on the gen instead of looking where the survivors did go.
The Incapacitation effect is what makes Eruption one of the few ways the killer have to really stop gen progression and that's why it is the most effective weapon against gen rushing right now. Most regression perks have the inconvenience of just start regressing the gen, which can be solved in less of a second with a little tap from a survivor. And the insta-regression is not much of a problem: Even Pain Res, which have 15% insta-regression only adds around 8 seconds to the repair time if two survivors are working on that exploded gen without perks or items. In a meta where a single chase can cost you 3 gens, that's not enough time to even find your next survivor to chase after a hook.
Also, why everything the killer do need to have a counterplay? How many things survivors have that the killer can't do anything about? How can I counter Sprint Boost? Blast Mine? Self-Care? Off the Record? What a killer can do against someone with WoO going from pallet to pallet without even trying to loop?
And sorry, but something "not being fun" is not an argument to do anything about it. But if Eruption has to change, first they should address the gen rushing meta to keep the balance.
######### do you expect survivors to bring when eruption is all over the place. Its a vicious cycle.
Killers bring heavy regression to stop gen rush
Survivors bring more gen rush to stop gen regression
Its a loop.
Nerf eruption, COB and Overcharge
Nerf BNPs, Hyperfocus.
Gen rush and stall needs to stop.
Also, if "fun" is not a good argument to change something. Then saying that eruption makes killer playing easier is not a good argument. I said the perk is OP, hundreds of forum post, tweets, youtube videos, tiktok so i am not surprised that the perk makes games easier to win. The perk is memed for how unfun and OP is.
And honestly, when the ptb came and one of the community manager post was that they couldn't get perk changes for this PTB, i think everyone knows what perk they have in mind.
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Its amazing:
Lets remove hook grabs and buff killers in other ways to promote interactive gameplay
Killer players:
No if i camp that survivor should be dead, he got caught, so i have the right to do it. Not everything needs counterplay and this community is obsessed with it.
Also killer player:
Bloodlust exist to guarantee that a killer can catch a survivor, a survivor shouldn't be able to have a chase forever. Thank god they removed end game DS and old DH that had no counterplay.
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@NekoGamerX said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3319936#Comment_3319936
on some killers it a pain and be a little buff for SWF if grabs got removed.
You are wrong, SWF already can safely coordinate unhooks, this would be a way bigger buff for solos.
I see many solo players just try to unhook and get grabbed.
If i am playing with friends that never happens as we call it out.
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3320115#Comment_3320115
Camping SHOULD be a "free" kill.
If you are in favor of that, then give survivors back off the record and DS in end game so they have free escapes then.
The game needs interaction, camping is a strategy and should make survivors adjust their gameplay to deal with it.
Camping should not be a "free" kill. You get a kill by hooking a survivor 3 times, that is your free kill, if you want to camp that survivor, you need a plan, a build/killer and be ready if your plan goes badly.
Why should a killer camp, the gens are closed, force survivors to heal and rescue to stop gens, in the end game since you have no other objective.
Camping should be a strategy to force the other side, the hook grab is luck based and has no skill.
If camping is a free kill, then you just incentive survivors to just bring gen rush builds and let the other survivor dead on hook
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@YOURFRIEND said:
Well they have to kick the gen(likely progressed a bit) then down a survivor before it's done. This obviously does not always happen.
Like it's a problematic perk. Overpowered even. But your framing is awfully disingenuous.
Yes, i was referring to a best scenario. Still that is your time limit to activate the perk, the gen not being finished, combine your build with overcharge and COB, its a good luck trying to do that.
I am well aware that the perk doesn't do all of the things i said all the time. Some times does 10% regression + whatever until a survivors touches the gen. Sometimes the gen gets done before you can finish the chase and put someone down.
But just because the perk doesn't apply his full effect all the time, doesn't make the perk ok.
Survivors can finish the a gen before you apply pain res or old POP, that didn't make the perks bad.
And i know that because i hate this perk for all the games i have gone against it, i am biased. But i hate a perk so much that even tho i can use it as a Killer i refuse to use it, never had any problem with any regression perk.
But i know how much of pain eruption is and how not fun it is.
Again, either up the regression to 15% or just make the gen block for 20 seconds after a down (a mini deadlock on downs).
I hate this perk, i want it changed and it's crazy that the only change its got since the 6.1 patch was a buff that the devs hid on the bug fixes page.
Sorry for rumbling so much. I don't want to sound mean, but this perk really annoys me. Hope its all good.
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@OrangeBear said:
It is a very frustrating perk but at the same time gen speed feel way too fast right now without eruption. The game is in a state where killers can make the game unwinnable in certain 3 gen scenarios but in many matches it also feels like the only way to win. With the survivor activity hud coming this next update, gens will be even more efficient so this 3 gen meta will be more prominent.
If i were the devs right now i would have no idea what to do, every solution seems like it would just create more problems.
Well reworking BNPs would be a start, i already said multiple times. Make it so a gen can't regress past 50% if you install a BNP, no free progress. Make Hyperfoccus not work with toolboxes, but fix the randomness of the skill checks.
Nerf this gen rush vs gen stall meta. Both of them pls
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Also do want to know how i would rework Quick Gambit.
After working on a gen for 3 seconds that gen is highlited to you and the killer:
While on chase with the killer any survivor working on your highlited gen receives a 6/7/8% repair speed bonus while in chase
If you get downed by the killer the gen stops being highlighted and loses 8% of progress.
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Nope, toolboxes and BNPs are the problem.
Also perks like COB, Eruption and Overcharge don't help with these metas.
Both metas suck, i want them both gone.
My opinion on resilience is simple, its a simple perk, does it job. But its not impactful, its a good perk, probably A tier for survivors.
Quick gambit sucks because its only good on select maps ( The game, RPD?, Midwitch) basically any 2 floor map. In any other map the buff is just insignificant and you are just taking the killer to your team which is exactly the opposite of what you want to do as survivor. I just don't want it buffed because i don't want gen rush to be stronger, we would only be on a loop.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Yup. I don't get how they could have playtested this perk in-house with the current numbers and possibly thought it was ok. I don't get how it remained untouched after the following PTB. I don't get how we're in January of the following year and it remains untouched. They randomly nerf a green Twins add on for a 0.3% pick rate killer, but apparently there's no time to address a perk there are complaint threads about every day. Priorities...
Its kinda of impressive how things that people will find annoying and not fun just go unnoticed in playtesting.
They increased the gen time, why not buff thana, even tho it already got indirectly buffed by general changes.
Lets release the knight a killer that can create an AI to patrol parts of the map, the players immediately use using to remove looping and camp objectives making matches super boring for both sides since there is no interaction. (All of these traits people discovered after 1 day in the ptb)
I know the devs mean the best for the best for the game, but damn is it frustrating.
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@Clockwork_Enigma said:
Incapacitation is a very rare status effect, and probably the most controversial one due to the perk known as Eruption. This Perk removes the ability to perform the following actions as Survivor:
- Repairing Generators
- Healing other Survivors
- Sabotaging Hooks
- Using Items
- Cleansing Totems
This is an extremely powerful status effect that has seen prominent usage thanks to the aforementioned perk. This is also an unhealthy and outdated effect since there are Perks, add-ons and even other status effects that will do the same thing on many of these actions.
So this effect needs to change, and there's one simple change that could be applied very quickly to make it an easily more tolerable status effect:
- Nerf: Incapacitation now only removes the ability to repair Generators.
- This change will not apply to The Twins or The Cenobite, who will retain the ability to lockdown Survivors from most interactions with their Powers.
This simple change would make the status effect significantly healthier for the game since it's now only applicable to one aspect of the game, like how other status effects will cancel out one aspect of a certain ability for Survivors or Killers.
This change would also allow for future perks and add-ons to have this effect and not feel as unfair as Eruption currently is, since Survivors will still have the ability to do something in the meantime while they wait for the effect to wear off.
Incapacitation is currently a problem, so this would 100% fix it without making it underpowered, and it would make the majority of the playerbase happier.
I think incapacitated is a problem in add-ons or Perks. Should only be reserved for Powers, that's my opinion.
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@Justice_For_Trapper said:
Exhaustion boon. That's all. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
So boon vigil?
I really would like to see a boon that lets recover exhaustion while running but slower, like in old Dbd.
But with how boons are in a weird state right now and the fact that it might be really OP, i am not sure xD
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Resilience is ok.
Quick Gambit is bad and don't change it. Pls take us out of this gen rush vs infinite 3 gen meta
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@Fuzzycube said:
Add-ons which improve killers primary powers are bad for game variety, Pyramid Head is the worst offender since why would you *not* want your ranged attack to be extended in length but there’s other killers too like Ghostface’s Philly, Knight’s Map of the Realm, Bubba’s Award Winning Chilli, Myer’s J. Myers Memorial and so on that are more or less must take add-ons (If you have them).
I don’t really know what should be done here since many of these make weaker/mid-tier killers more usable, maybe rework the killers to improve their power then change the add-ons up?
In contrast I’d say add-ons that change killer gameplay without destroying balance are good like Pig’s Amanda's Letter, Myer’s Scratched Mirror (Kind of weak though) or the Demogorgon’s add-ons in general which allows for many different styles of play.
Meanwhile some add-ons are straight up easy mode, Clown’s Redhead’s Pinkie Finger combined with Cheap Gin Bottle which completely negates the downside is the best example but also things like Myer’s Tombstone Piece combined with J. Myers Memorial.
Finally beginner perks that show the location of an m2 power I feel should be base kit (Plaid Flannel for Nurse and Cat Figurine for the Twins), not having them just makes things unnecessarily difficult for new players and are basically worthless for top MMR players.
Hmm, i think it depends on the killer and his power.
Also if you want to include those indicators you may want to add the option to remove them, i see a lot of high level killers say that those indicators actually only hinder your gameplay instead of helping. So either adding them as an option on custom matches or as a toggle feature in regular matches would be best. But honestly i don't know if its necessary
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@JimmyCasket said:
Seeing how a Black Ward cannot be countered in any way, it's a bit bs that a White Ward can be countered by not only Franklin's Demise, but several annoying Killer Add-ons. So, I propose a simple rework to the White Ward to counter this unfair mechanic. White Ward: When played, will allow the survivor to maintain their item and add-ons in the even they lose it, by any means. So if they die with it on hand, they keep it, if they drop it (for some reason) and haven't picked up a new item since, they keep it. Even both combined, they keep it.
Honestly, not a bad idea.
I really would like a survivor item/add-on and offering pass someday. Some are so OP and others are completely useless
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@DarkMagik265 said:
1:Overview)
-The Main Change is that when a Boon is placed there is a 60 Second Timer by default before it deactivates & becomes unsable.For every other Boon added an Extra Seconds is added up to a Max of 90 Seconds. If the Boon is not active the timer would pause. 24 Meters Still & All Effects longer for 5 Seconds.
2:Stopping the Boon)
-As a Survivor of you can go up to the Boon that you placed & unless it (8 Second Interaction) or go into a Locker & press the secondary action to Destroy the Boon which would Destroy the Totem in the process.(Does not count Toward Hex:Pepimemto)
-As a Killer you can up to a Totem & snuff it taking out the Boon effect & taking out 20 Seconds of the Timer.
3:Perk Changes)
-Shadowstep: Inside the Range you leave no Scratchmark, leave no Blood Stains, & Reduces Grunts of Pain by 10/20/30%(Stacks).Auras are hidden.
-Dark Theory: Increase Movement Speed & Vaulting Actions by 3/4/5%. Reduces stagger from heights by 50%.
-C.O.H: None
-Exponetial: Increase Recovery Speed, Crawling Speed, & Recovery from Status Effects by 50/75/100%
4: New Perks)
-Survivor Perk: Destroy a Totem & adds 10/20/30 Seconds Back. Deactivates after use.
-Killer Perk: While in Range of a Boon the Boon aura is revealed. Snuffing the Totem reveals the aura of the person who reveals it for 5/6/7 seconds & gives you a 5% speed boost as long as a survivor doesn't lose a health state by any means.
That is way to complex.
In my opinion, just make so killers destroy the boon when they snuff it, but make it so that the totem can't be used for pentimento.
I already posted a bunch of suggestions for the different perks that would need to be changed.
That timer idea sounds way to complicated and messy.
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@NekoGamerX said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3319581#Comment_3319581
No if there two going for the unhook and you hit one the one you hit runs away and the one you didn't hit unhooks in your face then the new unhooked survivor body blocks the person who just unhooked them, so there no trade that what you call a hook bomb or unhook bomb it worst when 3 going for the unhook when all gens are done
that why grab need to stay.
Then you get 3 people not on gens all injured. Want better than that bring perks or killers that are even better.
A mechanic that is solely luck based with ping and patience involved is not good. A survivor faking an unhook is not a show of skill, is a survivor not being dumb.
Remove hook grabs and give killers reward for unique hooks.
The hook grabbing gameplay is cheap, doesn't show any skill from either side, promotes the killer to camp for the chance that they might get lucky and get a grab for free, and survivors have literally nothing they can do without either playing the dumb unhook/ fake unhook staring game or teaming up with another survivor to guarantee the save.
Make it consistent:
1 survivor - trade
2 survivors - 3 survivors injured not on gens and you have an immediate chase
No random grab that spirals the match into a 4k because of randomness.
Again give killers reward for unique hooks. Promoting healthy gameplay should be good.
Hook grabs don't give nothing, they are random, promote camping, don't show skill on either side, are boring to watch and do. Remove them.
If killers want to be stronger on unhooks, pick perks or powers that allow you to do that. Don't rely on dumb luck.
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3319572#Comment_3319572
I mean all you need is for two people to come at the hook at the same time and most killers can do nothing about it. One unhooks, takes a hit, second one bodyblocks, all three run. GG.
That is not "fair for both sides".
Yes it is, unless you have perks or a killer power to help you.
If you could protect the hooks that well even against two survivors, camping would be even more insane. It would be a free kill and remove interaction from the game.
The job of the killer is to kill the survivors and for that they need pressure and do it in the most effective and efficient way possible.
Removing hook grabs just makes the situations more consistent and fair for both sides.
If its one survivor, the killer gets a trade easy
If its two survivors, unless they ######### up you get 3 survivors injured and 3 people that are not on gens
No random chance because the ping was high and the survivor got grabbed even tho he did let go of the unhook or just having both stare at each other.
Again, if killer want to have more tools for this situations, there are perks to help them. STBL makes unhooking impossible with only 1 survivor, Deadlock delays gen rushing so they have to save their teammate in time, Forced penance makes protection hits dangerous as now the survivors become vulnerable, NOED, NWO, Terminus all make saves in end game much more risky and help the killer when they already lost all pressure, Starstruck delays the rescue for survivors with the exposed status effect.
Killers have tools in their powers and perks to help them in unhooks, they don't need a hook grab that doesn't add any amount of skill or interesting gameplay. I prefer that being removed and the devs finally added some kinda reward for killers for unique hooks, that is engaging gameplay.
Also survivors don't have perks to save them for hook grabs, you are at the mercy of ping, patience or a teammate to help you.
In conclusion: Remove hook grabs, reward multiple hooks
I don't want killers to get nerfed, i want the gameplay to be enjoyable for both. Hook grabs are not enjoyable for either side. I just feel like i cheated when i grab someone trying to unhook, its just not fair
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3319619#Comment_3319619
So Survivors should get permanent safe unhooks because your opinion of camping is low?
Let's take that logic further:
Some Survivors hate slugging for any reason. Better give everyone basekit Unbreakable!
Survivors hate tunneling, too: Better take that idea one poster had and make Survivors literally immune to being attacked until they do any conspicuous actions!
What's that? Killers aren't playing anymore, because they literally can't 12-hook against SWFs bringing full META perks? Well, they just need to git gud, clearly!
I never asked for any of those things and in those survivors have ways to counter, being perks or outplaying the killer with skill
There is no skill in avoiding hook grabs, its just a dumb mini game at best, and there is no perk to make you imune to them or anything
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3319594#Comment_3319594
Bait out the grab, get hit, and then unhook while the KIller is in his wipe animation.
Or, you know, demand the developers remove hook grabs so Survivors never have to take any risks. 🙄
Then the game becomes a staring match or depends on ping. And the best a survivor gets is a trade. A killer shouldn't get more than that for camping in my opinion
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3319581#Comment_3319581
Hook grabs are not 'bad design' just because Survivors want every unhook to be unstoppable.
Then why is it good design? What is a solo survivor supposed to do?
Every other situation a Killer can grab a survivor its the survivors fault, that survivor should have done better.
What can a solo survivor do better? (Stare, is staring a good design. Hope the lag doesn't ######### up a 50/50 and then get down anyway?)
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@NekoGamerX said:
removing hook grabs would just make it easier for survivors unhook even when not safe,it make most if not all unhooking safe even if the killer right there.
No, it would force a trade instead of a 50/50 between a trade and 2 hooks. Also, is really the staring gameplay and potential connection issues worth it. They can buff killers after if the killrates get to low, but bad design should go away
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@CompleatBeet said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/QWDEW5JP2PZS/my-image-282-29.png
Honestly just delete Hag and Doctor please nobody would care.
Disgusting: Hag, Clown, Legion, Trickster, Twins, Knight and Dredge
Annoying: Nurse, Doctor, Freddy, Plague, Cenobite
Depends: Trapper, Wraith, Cannibal, Spirit, Blight, Nemesis, Artist, Sadako
Fun: Shape, Huntress, Ghost face, Oni, Deathslinger, Demo, Executioner
Always Fun: Billy, Pig, Wesker
Cannibal would be in always fun if not for the camping problem and plague would be higher in SWF but in solo its a nightmare with dumb randos that kill you and get infected immediately after.
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@WesCravenFan said:
Remove hook grabs and it is now literally impossible to secure and end game kill against a hook bomb unless you are Bubba.
That is a hard no from me.
What do you mean by hook bomb?
Also no, hook grabs are just unfun, turns the game into a staring contest and invite lag rages (if either side has bad connection).
Also in end game it wouldn't change much, smart survivors will just either bodyblock the unhooker or take a hit and let other survivor unhook.
That change would only nerf camping in early and mid game, since the killer can't randomly get 2 hooks for the price of one, that way he only gets a trade every time. Unless survivors do the end game strat.
Its fair and consistent for both sides.
Also, there are end game perks like NOED, NWO and Terminus if killers want to secure kills in end game. If you only brought gen defense perks, the gens got done, you can't be mad that you don't have the tools now that all your perks are useless, it was your choice.
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@StarLost said:
- Hook grabs. These have always been silly, aren't much fun for anyone and far too often turn unhooks into a 'you rolled a 1 and now it's a 4k' frustration chain.
- Kobes. 99% of the time it's just suicide, and an easy way to bail on a match without getting a penalty. 1% of the time, it's really, really frustrating for the killer. Rework perks and addons as needed.
- Useless addons and offerings. I swear, far too much of my BP goes into stuff that is either really bad, or straight up handicapping myself.
- No Mither. Just...get rid of it and give David something that isn't essentially a 'we lose' button. I swear, this adept is a team killer.
- Knockout. This perk has almost no practical use and is only really utilized to grief solo queue players. Replace it with something better, and healthier.
1: ITs kinda crazy that this simple thing hasn't been implemented, everyone has been asking for it for so long, seems like one of the most agreed upon point between killers and survivors. I hope we get to see it
2: Maybe rework it to a 1 chance to do it with some penalty other than hook timer, maybe also remove the skill checks in the second phase. Before killers complain about that just making survivors easier, remember that also makes finding the 4th survivor easier since a teammate can't kill themselves faster to spawn the hatch (there is pros and cons), but it would require a rework of perks offerings and the luck mechanic.
3: Killers get add-on passes, i expect more to come. I hope for a survivor item and add-on pass, some itens and add-ons are so useless and some like BNPs are just broken and unfun to face. Offerings are also pretty lame in general, i generally only use the BPs or map offerings since those are the only ones that feel impactful, would be fun to have offering to be more impactful and fun, but that is also really scary, with how controversial map offerings are (tho thats more of some maps faults)
4: Yeah, just rework the perk into a proper anti slug perk or something. No perk should be so bad as to be a handicap
5: Yeah, the perk is kinda nasty for solo queue and a slight annoyance for SWF, i like the idea of the perk for meme builds a perk that creates some Chaos but the design is a bit flawed, but not the worst
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@bunnyfengenthusiast said:
There is absolutely nothing engaging about playing against this killer. His most effective playstyle consists of playing against Artist except more dumbed down and more simplified, along with camping every single objective possible with the most braindead power to use anyone's ever seen. I have no idea how this killer ever made it past play testing in the current state he's in.
It's kinda crazy, i posted a prediction post saying the exact same 1 day after the PTB. Sometimes i think bhvr just has an idea or concept that they want and never stop to ask if they should.
To add insult, he comes after Wesker, one of the best killers they released in while to play as and against.
Honestly, for knight either completely rework him, which won't happen right away since he is new, or just stop trying to balance him so we can all forget this mess, it worked with Twins.
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318024#Comment_3318024
- Okay...but that's not what we're talking about. 'Good' does not mean 'MMR capped' either.
- Raging_Ryuga did a 150 win streak on Legion with weird perks pre-rework? I literally can't find any mention of this whatsoever...and it's something you'd think people would be all over. Let me see if I can get ahold of him on his Discord when I get back in, because that's amazing.
- Which BHVR posts?
- Okay...but that's not whataboutism.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318012#Comment_3318012
- Killers can't play in an SWF. Although that would be sort of fun.
- Playing mean - yeah. Tunneling someone out, running strong perks and addons etc. Basically the opposite of playing chill.
- Okay...
- -
- Because for some reason people like to compare this to camping.
- Generally, I see strong players run 2-3 regression perks, with the goal being to layer them.
- I'd love some better chase perks.
- -
- I'll be doing the survivor version in due course.
- -
- -
- Shrug. Both are obnoxious.
- I agree. But it's sort of inevitable.
- -
- I don't think that killer has ever been considered the power role.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318138#Comment_3318138
I'm generally a Cheryl or a Feng, actually :)
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318087#Comment_3318087
- That's...not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that we need to come loaded for bear because we might be facing an SWF next, even if it seems like overkill against solos.
- I don't think the majority of human beings can do that at all, and even those that can struggle to do it well. Hell, even Otz loses his cool once in a while.
- Shrug. Once again, you can't blame someone for getting irritated at irritating behavior.
- What? Yeah, no. Passing up a chase against someone vulnerable is how you can lose a game right then and there.
An explanation isn't an excuse. And I'm not saying me. I'm saying 'this is what people are like'.
In regard to killer perks i generally bring about 1 or 2 gen perks, the rest goes to information, anti heal, utility, chase perks. Idk, i just have fun constantly changing my loadout and trying new things, yes this is very killer dependent, but i think is the most fun part of playing killer, makes me feel like a schemer creating a challenge for survivors to overcome xD
When i bring 4 gen perks, i get bored really quickly, yeah i probably win more and easier, but also makes the game last longer and makes my gameplay sloppier. I start to feel like i didn't deserved the win.
I did gain a recent Love for Blood favor, kinda risky because its Hex, but its so fun to use and negate strong pallets, especially in maps with lots of pallets close together.
Honestly i would love if the meta for both survivor and killer was more decided around chases. I would love for both survivors and killers to get better chase perks, instead of the constant number and gen perks
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318093#Comment_3318093
Prove thyself used incorrectly is less efficient than just splitting up on gens.
For numbers, 2 survivors working on a gen with PT take 46.04 seconds, so if they stick together then 2 gens takes 92.08 seconds (ignoring travel time). If they just split up and did two different gens separately, then those same 2 gens complete in 90 seconds. This doesn't even consider the fact that, together they can both be chased off the gen, but apart, the killer can only pressure one at a time.
Other perks/items don't make prove more efficient, they only modify these base timings of the gen, so the inefficiency of using prove incorrectly never fully goes away. If you hit 6 Hyperfocus skill checks, you're still better off doing so alone.
So as long as there's more than one gen available, survivors are *slower* working together on gens. The savings comes for survivors at one gen remaining. The only possible exception is if all survivors spawn together and can finish the first gen before the killer interrupts them, which is a huge gamble early game. In most situations, using PT at the wrong time is *buying* the killer both time and possible pressure.
The problem with PT combined with other things is only the 'other things'. Is BNP too much? Probably. I'd rather see it become a 'use above 50% progress and the gen locks in, cannot regress below 50%.' Hyperfocus is generally fine, but shouldn't work with toolboxes, similar to autodidact and med kits. I also think toolboxes should have double or even triple the charges, but provide no more than 10% repair speed regardless of add-ons.
I generally agree with everything you said, the only one idk is the toolbox change.
I personally think BNP is the problem, i just love the idea of locking a gen to 50% progress, i think it would be healthier
Also those toolboxes were a thing in the past, thats how they used to work before they changed them.
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@Xernoton said:
Prove Thyself alone is only problematic because it reduces the time a killer has in the game, which is already limited. It allows survivors to do a gen incredibly fast by just grouping up. Sure, if the survivors were all spread out across the map they still could progress just as fast (in theory) but that also increases the chances of the killer finding them. Then there is also the early and late game. With Prove Thyself you can more often than not finish the first gen before the killer even has a chance to get there. The same applies to the last gen, if the killer doesn't have enough slowdown to stop that.
The real problem comes from Prove Thyself stacking with other things like toolboxes, Hyperfocus + Stakeout etc. This just gets ridiculous.
You are kinda wrong, early game Prove is bad, it's not as efficient as Splitting up, and if the killer finds the grouped up survivors the killer has pressure on multiple survivors instead of just one.
Prove is only good when there only 2 or 1 gens left, since its the most effective way survivors have to break any gens that are too close.
Also again, both sides are bad, extending the game is as bad as rushing it. While both styles of perks should exist because they are necessary both styles shouldn't be this prominent as they are now.
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@StarLost said:
This was initially 15 points for both killer and survivor, but I'll make that it's own thread as this was already getting wall-of-texty.
If you have anything to add, feel free.
- We know that not every game is against an SWF. And that not every SWF is a sweaty team. But every game has the potential to be one, and so we either need to come prepared or just instalose. And that's not fun either. Remember, we can't choose not to face SWF and can't easily identify them in the lobby - but you do.
- Ditto, chances are that if we're playing mean from the start, it's because we've had a game recently where we didn't play mean and got stomped for our trouble.
- You don't need to give us mercy kills, but if you don't have anything nice to say, just get out and get to your next game. Gloating and being BM...even if we never see you again, chances are that the next team we play against is going to suffer.
- Sometimes we aren't trying to tunnel. We just keep running into you. It's not personal.
- We may not be camping, but if you try to unhook right in front of us or literally try to unhook mid chase - chances are we're going to take the shot.
- We don't run deep regression because it's fun. We run it because sometimes it's the only way we even really get to play the match out.
- Similarly, info perks get redundant fast and we don't have much in the way of universally good perks that aren't regression based. If we did, you'd see more of them.
- Some perks are annoying for you to play against. Some perks are annoying for us to play against (or worse, some maps). It's just the nature of the game.
- Before you blame getting killed on our perks/killer/strat, ask yourself - 'is there anything I could have done differently in that game that might have helped?'. Play in a group (there are always groups popping off on the DbD Discord, 24/7, at all skill levels). Run at least some info perks if you're solo. Don't go for crazy unhooks. Don't try fancy stuff if you aren't sure it'll work. Don't trail after us like puppies when we're carrying someone.
- If you act cocky or BM, you don't get to complain if you get tunneled out. If you demand our attention, don't be surprised when you get it.
- Just because the exit gates are powered doesn't mean you've won. A killer is no more under an obligation to let you leave than they are to let you unhook. Being salty about this in postgame is a bad look.
- Yes, we all know the trick to avoid AFK crows by now. Stealthing around the map and drawing things out because you 3genned yourselves is no less obnoxious than us walling you into the poop room on Gideon - and honestly, should be no less bannable. Don't do it. And if you do - remember, karma is seldom fun.
- Understand that a lot of killers have a chip on their shoulders about the way this game has been balanced in the past. Certain perks that shall not be mentioned were at something like 80% usage at higher MMRs, and were like that for years. Combine this with how BM some survivor teams can be, and yeah - there's a reason why some killers go in treating every game as a grudge match. It's not necessarily your fault, but you can't really blame them either.
- If your lobby is stacked with items, expect Franklins and maybe don't risk bringing your best item. Because that's the best answer we have.
- Some of us will try to ease up if we're stomping, and at least allow you to safety pip - it gives us more BP too. Similarly, if you've gotten 4 gens done and the killer has 1 hook, maybe consider extending them the same courtesy? It's more BP/emblem points for everyone.
- I mean, survivors also don't know what killer they go against. I don't see the advantage
- What do you want to say by "mean", playing good or trying to tunnel and camp at 4 or 5 gens? Because if it's just giving it your all, well good, its game. You don't have to be an a**
- I don't care honestly, because i am on console, i always like to be on the exit gate, it's like saying goodbye or GGs. I never intended it to be toxic, mostly xD
- Same xD, some survivors really get salty about that, it's kinda funny
- I mean, why wouldn't you xD
- Meh, debatable. I think most killers just use it because it's easy to use. Probably holds you back against very good teams tho, since you would need other perks to get more consistent downs and earlier
- Hmm, again regression is just easier. But honestly i feel like killers get way more good to very good perks than survivor. I always have more fun doing a killer build than a survivor, it feels way more limited
- Yeah, nothing to say
- True, tho i feel like there is an equivalent for killer that i hope you mention in your next post xD
- True
- True
- Stalling a game is so boring, pls survivors just let the game finish when it's over, what do you gain from hiding in corners or making yourself unhoockable and dumb stuff like that. But the current 3 gen stall meta is still the worst
- Hmm, i don't want to comment, except that i think most people just want the game to enjoyable for both parties, and the mentality of us vs them is bad for discourse in the game
- It's fair xD, I will still bring what i want xD, either that be stacked toolbox/medkit or franklin's
- I will actually agree that killers do that way more than survivors, even if most of them only do it after tunneling a survivor out of the game so early he must have gotten like 4K BPs (definitely not salty xD), but honestly i never see survivors do the opposite. Don't know why, but i assume it's because the Killer is assumed to be the Power role and survivor well survives. Even if the meta has most of the time favoured survivors maybe that type of thinking is just inherent.
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@HugTheHag said:
Prove is not a problem.
Without Prove, survivors are less efficient when they're several on the same gen. They would get more value splitting up.
Prove essentially just removes the efficiency loss of groups. They'd get just as much value splitting up. In fact, they'd put more pressure on the killer advancing on several gens.
Gens progression is not going faster than it would be without Prove if people were splitting up, they just have more checkpoints as you can't regress a gen that's already at 100.
Honestly, i think the same. But every single time i see people wanting this meta of Eruption, COB ad overcharged to be looked at, you get the response that prove is the culprit.
I don't like gen perks for either side, i know they must exist. But it's just frustrating to constantly see this two dumb builds fighting for supremacy.
Honestly they can both be nerfed to the ground, stally infinite games of regression or a 3 min game with no interactions. They both suck.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3317623#Comment_3317623
P1:
Trying to make the Killer more afraid of something.
This is not the philosophy you want for the aesthetic of this game, and not something you want to do to the minority role in an asymmetrical game.
If you want a counter to enduring, you have Smash Hit. Where the Survivor gets a speed boost away from a successful stun.
P2: The Perk itself would need to cause exhaustion, otherwise it can be frontloaded into something like Dead Hard, used before hit with Overcome, or a good pathing scenario with Lithe. In all honesty Balanced Landing is an Exhaustion Perk you can easily make arguments for bringing another Exhaustion Perk with already.
P3: You still don’t need the scratch mark removal tied in with the Perk. It is a feint, while offering fundamentally unique movement options found nowhere else. If it proves to be too weak, perhaps add in an inherent scratch mark suppression. But otherwise you can get that by combining it with Dance With Me.
P4: This is a feast or famine perk. And it ties into itself, as the more stacks you have, the harder you are to catch, so you are less likely to get hit to lose tokens in the first place.
While I still wouldn’t suggest implementing it, if you had to, make the player consume all the stacks by pressing the ability button for a temporary bonus, such that it isn’t passive.
P5: Killer placed entity block, could be interesting. But not the Survivor activated entity block.
P6: High level play with this Perk will be choice application on when to use it to maximize its effectiveness per Totem cleansed. You need to balance the Perk assuming this. Which is why I’m suggesting that once activated the timer for the perk does not stop until it runs out, instead of being able to channel it like a key (which is what I assume you’re suggesting).
P1: I do't want a counter to enduring, just a way to make less valuable pallets more usefull, by rewarding a stun. The added counter to bloodlust was just to counter bloodlusting on bad filler pallets
P2: That is just balanced landing, its too situational. I don't want to give the speed boost, and it can't be like old balanced where the stager was permanent, but also the game changed and the game removed most infinites that were very common back then. I think it could be done, but yes needs to be very carefull
P3: Hmm, i guess, but deception is also a feint and that perk gives you scratch mark removing effects. It's not the main effect i want so i don't care. I just want to fake vault like when that bug was in the game, sounds fun
P4: Definitely a feast or famine perk, that is completely the idea. I mean its difficult to imagine getting so many stacks without getting hit, i like it as a challenge perk. it could be made safer like you said, but then getting stacks would need to be easier or the instead of stacks would be tokens and its a fixed value. Like for example you gain a token and when vaulting you get the 20% vault speed and consume the token, its a completely different idea, both could work. Their philosophy is just completely different.
P5: That would be terrible, a counter to 2 killer perks and that causes exhaustion, nah the idea is that you can vault whatever, but of course it would be an exhaustion perk, exhaustion perks need to be strong and change your playstyle not counter 2 killer perks
P6: I mean, the idea was the removal of an item and the cleansing of a totem, but yes the idea is to just be a key on a perk, its strong but is also limited, i think that the best way to balance it is in the duration, that way you get flexibility without being oppressive, if 15 sec is way to generous, 10 seconds. The key gives 15 seconds without the extra seconds add-on
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@AssortedSorting said:
Perk 1: Just a longer stun doesn’t feel very interesting to play against.
Instead could just make it so the Killer stops seeing Scratch marks for a few Seconds after you stun them. (You still leave scratch marks that reappear once the duration is over though)
Perk 2: Isn’t this part of Balanced Landing?
Not sure how I like a movespeed Perk that stacks with Exhaustion Perks
Perk 3: Misdirection is Powerful. I don’t think it needs to remove scratch marks, you can couple it with Dance With Me if you want that. (And of course I assume this Perk will be an Exhaustion Perk)
Perk 4: A Token based Exhaustion Perk could be an interesting idea.
However I don’t think a passive Vault speed increase is healthy or engaging.
Perk 5: Duration is too long, Status effect recovery should be standalone in its own Perk.
Perk 6: Don’t allow the Survivor to stop the use drain: if they start to read the Aura with this Perk, it drains until it is depleted. Also reduce the duration down to like 10-15s Max
Tried to alter the perks with the feedback, wish i got to say thanks. What do you think?
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
- Would almost never see use, since Killers avoid stuns. And it would only be 1 extra second.
- Imagine being able to avoid falling stagger once a minute. OP.
- Kind of neat but, again, somewhat OP with the frequency of use.
- OP. It would turn some loops into infinites.
- Insanely OP
- Eh. Neat, but it would basically destroy stealth Killers.
- Yeah probably niche, but still helpfull, i think it could help you reach other tiles when you are in a filler pallet
- I want the concept, somehow. Yes it was broken because Balanced lending was active all the time, but i still want that perk in some way.
- It would be a mind game, definitely stronger than deception, but i don't think the cooldown should be bigger than 60 sec
- I mean, its more of an end game perk, since you need to farm the stacks, not sure if it would really create infinites, but maybe removing the tokens on hooks, would you think it would be ok?
- I don't know, but don't care enough to defend
- You can't read aura of stealth killers, if they are undetectable. It would work for mind games in tiles, but the duration should be 10-15. 25 would be way to strong.
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@AssortedSorting said:
Perk 1: Just a longer stun doesn’t feel very interesting to play against.
Instead could just make it so the Killer stops seeing Scratch marks for a few Seconds after you stun them. (You still leave scratch marks that reappear once the duration is over though)
Perk 2: Isn’t this part of Balanced Landing?
Not sure how I like a movespeed Perk that stacks with Exhaustion Perks
Perk 3: Misdirection is Powerful. I don’t think it needs to remove scratch marks, you can couple it with Dance With Me if you want that. (And of course I assume this Perk will be an Exhaustion Perk)
Perk 4: A Token based Exhaustion Perk could be an interesting idea.
However I don’t think a passive Vault speed increase is healthy or engaging.
Perk 5: Duration is too long, Status effect recovery should be standalone in its own Perk.
Perk 6: Don’t allow the Survivor to stop the use drain: if they start to read the Aura with this Perk, it drains until it is depleted. Also reduce the duration down to like 10-15s Max
1: i think it would be interesting to make killers more afraid of pallets and counter enduring
2: I really would like to have the no stagger effect in a non exhaustion perk, don't know how to balance it, but i really want it xD
3: Nobody would use a misdirection perk if it was an exhaustion, the idea is to be like deception. You can argue that the cooldown should be longer, but if it cause exhaustion it would be incredibly weak, all exhaustion perks give you an advantage, not a mind game.
4: I like the idea of needing to play aggressive and becoming more powerfull in chase, maybe some way to remove tokens, maybe if you get hooked you loose all tokens
5: Meh, that would just be Vigil, but honestly i don't like this one either
6: The idea was to make the blood Key in a perk, but the duration might be too long, 10 or 15 seconds is probably best
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3317559#Comment_3317559
Yeah, the map spawn made things so much worse in the game that prompted this. The Game, only one hook accessible from most of the bottom floor (and the freezer entrance was freaking awful), someone DC'd on it first hook. <_>
Yeah, i don't like The game with plague either, that does sound bad
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@RainehDaze said:
Somehow, there is no more depressing outcome than playing Plague, and being reduced to an M1 Killer as everyone still has two health states and decides "no need to cleanse".
(Bonus points for getting sent to the Game at that point; not much to do except get hit by pallets there)
Its counter play, some times that strategy works, but not always. It depends on the situation and team.
For example, if they refuse to cleanse and have an advantage you can camp a guy on hook to force them to cleanse. No DH is gonna save you from that.
Only problem with Plague, is playing against her in solo queue. Still the best designed Killer in my opinion
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@FeryGEN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316095#Comment_3316095
You see, we have come to an agreement that the perk should highlight used pallets. Like I said, survivors have to use their brains. My opinion is that players should play, not perks. The developers have also said more than once that for some things, players still need to use their memory and turn on their brains.
I'm NOT against highlighting part of the pallets, I'm against highlighting everything without studying the map.
And with that you nerf one of the best uses of the perk in solo queue, knowing if someone has already dropped a pallet or not.
People just drop pallets in solo queue like there is no tomorrow and i don't see any connection between those people and the use of windows.
The perk is fine, it helps the survivors with constant information but it still on the survivor to use it well as the perk by itself doesn't give you value.
Also there is a perk that shows you dropped pallets, its any means necessary, and that perk has another function and it doesn't have a range limit.
Windows is fine and if you want that version just use any means, you even get a bonus of recycling pallets.
I love any means, i honestly just don't use it more because i like Windows more.
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@FeryGEN said:
Due to the buffs of this perk, using it in the game turns the gameplay into the following:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ZDEIQXSB52EV/gameplay.png
P - Pallet
Survivors don't even try to palletlooping, they just camp and drop whatever they have. And you know, I don’t mind, sometimes I even stupidly break everything, of course I can beat, but I want to show the survivor in every match that this is not a strategy and how boring it is and it won’t help to win, he will just leave the team without pallets.
Such gameplay is very boring, yes I win, but there is no mindgame, the survivor does not need to think or be afraid, he just goes into the light
And here is the final counter argument.
After the release of the Binding of Kin chapter, a hotfix was released in which Approisal was nerfed with a note.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/D2C4DWSKELN8/fact.png
Therefore, I have a question, why do survivors receive pallet auras immediately and go into the light like moths, while not studying the map?
What does Appraisal have to do with WoO, i don't see the connection.
Second it's a good perk yes. But it really doesn't impact Killers, so why nerf it.
If the survivor is good and already knows the map, they can do what a survivor using Windows does and better as they have an extra perk slot.
Also there are perks and add-os that apply blindness, so there is counter play there.
But again, if the survivor is good, the map will destroy the killer not windows.
Also, who uses appraisal, great they made a bad perk worse. The perk is fine, it's a good perk. There are so few good survivor perks