Ayodam
Ayodam
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@DEMONANCE said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3466797#Comment_3466797
that same data tells them maps like the game and haddonfield are ok and don't need changing cuz killers get a decent average kill rate on these maps despite their problems but that data doesn't show how miserable it is to actually play on these maps.
idk what they're waiting for exactly, to see that there's a decline in kill rates in matches with mft? cuz that's probably not gonna happen much but that doesn't mean the perk is not busted.
how did their data not tell them that dead hard was problematic when everyone and their mom complained about it yet it remained in the game for 6 years.
bhvr just don't wanna shake off their old "stats based only" balancing methods.
Thr DBD ambassador Otzdarva says both of those maps are actually pretty good for most killers. And that’s pretty much what the stats bear out. Also why would they nerf survivor perks that doesn’t really decrease killrates? It seems you just don’t want survivors to have even mildly useful perks. And if that’s what you want, you should ask specifically for it. Show the world what you really are.
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@MimiDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3467105#Comment_3467105
Can you enlighten me as to why people (not just you) bring up Nightlight stats in discussions? It's only PC and only PC users who take the time to upload the information. Nightlight is such a small fraction of the player base and I personally don't see how it helps or means anything.
As for OTR the amount of times the killer waits out my base BT is frustrating and OTR can help with that along with the anti tracking aspect of the perk. If you our being tunneled off hook (which everyone claims to be) then OTR should be used to alleviate that.
I think because it’s a microcosm of gameplay trends throughout the community and, sans the official stats BHVR releases annually, the only way to place a pulse on perk popularity & other usage trends.
If you’re suggesting OtR somehow better insulates survivors from tunneling, a killer doesn’t really need to wait out BT or Off the Record. One hit puts you into Deep Wound. I personally wouldn’t care if you had OtR or BT. Either one cancels out as soon as you’re hit once. And no killer needs to wait 10-60 seconds to render your protection useless.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3467030#Comment_3467030
I'm personally using nightlight to record stats of my own matches, off the record is 10th most used perk there and has 15% pick rate.
I wonder how there can be this much of distinction between average and mine, is it MMR? No one knows.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3467070#Comment_3467070
For me it's 35%, which is actually a ridiculously high number but still not "4 mft every match" for sure.
According to Nightlight OTR has a 1% pick rate. The highest it has ever had was 1.6% earlier this year. I don’t understand why you’re being dishonest
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It’s your decision. I understand why you wouldn’t. But it could be helpful to others if you did. Maybe you could play killer and farm with the survivors you face?
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@bazarama said:
Unfortunately you get toxic on both sides. I killer main and the amount of flashlights (thank you lightborn) is ridiculous.
I only do my objectives during the event because I want survivors to get the rewards too.
But some people just can't help but be toxic even when it's clear you aren't playing to win.
Flashlights aren’t toxic. They’re a tool just like your add-ons. Also there are a couple of “Stun the killer X times” challenges floating around from the recent tome.
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@Xernoton said:
I have a hard time believing people play extra nasty because of the event.
@Nirgendwohin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3466968#Comment_3466968
i'm currently on the ground for bleedout while the killer stays behind me and nods. hook is 2 meters away
edit for mandy, the killer used your beloved anon mode
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/XLAE4U53KM4E/grafik.png
I’ve seen it, too. Believe it or not but some players enjoy ruining experiences for others.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3466687#Comment_3466687
OTR gives you 0 sound and blocks auras for 80 seconds and extends bt for 80 seconds as well meaning the kill can't just wait it out. Is pretty strong and I see it frequently and use it all the time.
A survivor loses all of that by performing a conspicuous action and because endurance doesn’t stack, a killer can still tunnel a survivor with it. I doubt you see it often; I think you’re being dishonest. I play both killer and survivor, I’m sure I’m in your MMR bracket, and I never see it. Most players just rely on basekit BT. And per Nightlight it has a 1% pick rate.
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@Leachy_Jr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3466586#Comment_3466586
Is it rude to ask why the team thinks the perk doesn't need much change?
A lot of very valid points have been brought up, unfun to verse, haste stacking, making certain killer powers borderline useless (knight, trickster), etc.
Surely a perk as problematic as MFT needs a change?
They’re probably basing it on numbers. That because something ‘feels’ overpowered doesn’t mean, logistically, it is.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3466527#Comment_3466527
Distortion and Off The Record can block auras, and they are both popular perks right now.
Distortion yes. I don’t ever see OTR. It isn’t very good. You might as well just rely on Basekit BT.
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@Bradyguy99 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3464922#Comment_3464922
Well now it's anything that can slow down gens cause man there's no stopping them. It's crazy fast now
Did y’all think they would nerf healing and gen speeds? Lol.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3466404#Comment_3466404
Iri shard was a major nerf, because nothing in the game blocks killer instinct. But there are multiple survivor perks that can block the killer from seeing auras.
I thought the only survivor perks that block aura reading are Shadow Step and Distortion. One of them doesn’t fully block auras because one has to be in its AoE to trigger the effect (Shadow Step).
Edit: I forgot Sole Survivor does it too.
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@Seraphor said:
Ghostface, Myers and Pig say no.
Onryo, Dredge, Wraith and Spirit are really good there too.
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@Nebula said:
Playing killer feels miserable and survivor isn’t much better.
People rubberbanding all over the place, getting hit 5 feet over a window, etc.
Kind unreal how they haven’t addressed this yet.
devs were saying in the feedback/bug forum that the issues are on the user/player’s side, not theirs
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Well, no survivor can handle a 1 v 1 with a killer; mistakes or not. It’s just not how this game is designed. And while it seems to be a hard pill to swallow, the truth is killers are afforded way more leeway with mistakes, especially at low to mid MMR. Killers can easily snowball just by tunneling one survivor out at any point in the trial. Gameplay is quite finite for survivors (3 hook states with the last being death, so technically 2 recoverable hook states) and because this is a game of attrition, the longer the game lasts the more likely survivors are to die. That isn’t the case for killer; the longer the game, the more likely they are going to win.
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427652#Comment_3427652
They are delusional then.
Nurses base kit is broken. Blight's power is pretty much exponential with his add-ons. People saying huntress and especially wesker are weak in another world.
Agreed. Nurse and Blight absolutely aren’t the only strong killers in this game. While those two may be the strongest there are still quite a few more strong killers.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
The perk does not activate it's cooldown if you do not complete the sabotage.
Sabotage no longer takes precedent over the healing action at a hook.
Reduced cooldown from 90/75/60 seconds to 60/50/40 seconds.
Maybe the first two issues are glitches some players experience? It’s gone on cooldown for me (recently) when I got hit trying to sabo a hook, even though I didn’t complete the sabotage. I dunno.
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This can’t be based on utility or performance. Is it by how cool the icons look?
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3464863#Comment_3464863
Just an FYI, the incentive isn't the same for everyone. It's based things like region, time of day, and MMR. So you might have 100% killer while someone else has 100% survivor, or anywhere in between. So I wouldn't think that would necessarily be a factor. I'd say people who play scummy simply enjoy playing that way.
From what I’ve seen the BP role bonus has been on survivor for me (25-100%, but never killer to any degree) since the event started.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
And what do you expect from them? Street is big dead zone with 2 or 3 pallets. You used them, now you have nothing only houses.
They’re not even safe pallets.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3464513#Comment_3464513
He wasn't oppressive people just didn't know how to play against him. The only possibly oppressive thing that the release version of Freddy had going for him was slugging (on release you had to heal someone up from dying and THEN wake them up), but even then Nurse & Billy were still better sluggers back then.
He was oppressive; he was extremely efficient at slugging and most players used him with that precise strategy. The devs changed his kit because of it. Freddy was never Nurse or Blight good but as I’ve stated he was up there with the likes of (current) Spirit. A-tier. Saying “well people just didn’t know how to counter him!!1!” is unacceptable. He was really good on release and up until his changes.
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As killer, I find it fun to give survivors a robust, fun experience. That could be allowing them to obtain bloodpoints, participate in mind games with me, and generally enjoy getting spooked.
As survivor, I enjoy a nice tug of war between the two sides. I like spreading my time doing different things (a little chasing/looping, completing gens, and altruistic actions). I also enjoy playing with a slight sense of immersion.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3464506#Comment_3464506
Actually, the devs have stated multiple times that average solo q and average SWFs are only off by a few kill rate %. This means that most of the people complaining about solo q wouldn’t actually do much better if they were in a SWF.
And besides, SWFs don’t need to be 6,000+ hour comp players, in order to gain massive game advantages from voice comms. Survivors can still use voice comms to warn each other where the killer is, and they can use voice comms to coordinate stuff….. even if they aren’t comp enough to say things like “I’m working on the 11 generator”.
The performance/win rate difference is upwards of 15% per the devs. You may not consider that noticeable when it comes to the survivor win rate but I’m sure if it applied as something like, say, a subtraction to the kill rate you’d feel it.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
originally. Freddy was an end game killer. You can see this in freddy perks. He has Remember me, Blood warden and Fire-up. 2/3 perks happen in the end game and one of the perks reaches the max power-level in the end game.
You can tell how badly that turned out. A lot of people labelled freddy as worst killer in the game at one point. One of funny interaction that freddy had was that when you were in dream world. you performed actions at 50% speed. This did include generators and healing but most importantly. it included exit gates.
Yes. an exit gate took 40 seconds to open when in dream world. Remember me used to be a powerful perk. It increased the gate opening time by 30 seconds. Each stack of remember was 5 seconds and there was max of 6 stacks.
This means that an exit gate took 50 seconds to open in total. Applying 50% penalty with freddy dream world. it would take a total of 100 seconds to open. That is longer then doing generator solo.
The idea was scrapped and freddy received rework.
Tbf when Freddy initially dropped he was extremely oppressive, which was why he was dialed back with those nerfs. He was probably on par with Spirit.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3464437#Comment_3464437
“Survivors constantly losing because of solo q” and “killers constantly losing because of SWF” are both equally unbelievable.
It’s more likely that survivors lose in solo queue which is known even to the devs as having a low success rate than all killers everywhere always lose to 4-man SWF. The percentage rate of a 4-man SWF is like 3-5% of all matches. Competitive SWF teams are realistically a fraction of that. There’s just no statistical pathway where killers only face 4-man SWF.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
Both sides does this. There are also a lot of survivors that blame their losses on solo q.
That is more believable than the attitude all killers constantly lose to 4-man comp SWF.
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@DavidHypnos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3463683#Comment_3463683
Yes, everyone switch to killer so that there are no survivors to play against. Makes sense! You are right, some of the fault lies with players as to why some things can’t work right such as when survivors griefed others with Reassurance so they had no choice but to nerf it. That doesn’t mean that camping isn’t a problem, and sometimes when they try to balance things they just make things unnecessarily useless. Look at Decisive Strike… did it need fixed? Yes, but they went too far. There’s no reason it should deactivate when the exit gates open. Some players don’t get hooked until the exit gates open and then they lose any advantage the perk would grant them. It’s like they’re saying that if a killer downs a survivor after the gates open then they DESERVE the kill which is problematic. You only get to use DS once… choosing when to do so is part of the survival strategy. So, yeah, instead of trying to give survivors ways to combat lazy and toxic gameplay they should instead work on penalizing the killer instead because whatever perks survivors are given to help often get made irrelevant anyway.
I do want to point out survivors didn’t grief each other with PTB Reassurance. It was something a handful of players hysterically floated so that the perk was nerfed because they believed it would be too strong. I played that PTB. Never saw any hostage situations.
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@Seraphor said:
Try him on an indoor map and see how that works out.
I've yet to have a game against Larry that I haven't escaped from.
He’s good on Midwich. I dunno about other indoor maps. But if Midwich is anything to go by then I’d say he’s fine.
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Does it really matter how much or little you care about the experiences of others when it comes to something as inconsequential as a video game? I don’t see you crusading against camping/tunneling playstyles; two given reasons why players try to leave trials quickly. I guess the compassion goes out the window then, huh?
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3463658#Comment_3463658
You can try and defend it all you want, but that doesn't change anything about the argument.
@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3463670#Comment_3463670
My point still stands. Best solution right now is to switch sides. Other than that, you can say "thank you" to our community, that sabotaged every attempt from the devs to solve this.
You have been around long enough to see it. How hook progess stop when the killer was in a certain radius, caused survivors to loop the killer around the hook.
Or how swivel hooks (unhook from every angle) just changed the meaning of face camping.
Or how stackable effects from BT, OtR and DH resulted in 5 hits to down a survivor.
The devs really tried to solve this, but our community is really good in... well... sabotaging ourselves.
I know it isn’t the answer you want to hear, Firellus but Tsulan makes a good point. You can’t really do anything about camping killers (and BHVR hasn’t rolled out their anti-camp measure yet). His solution, so players at least avoid that situation with the tools available now, is to play killer—if only to amass more BPs during the event. Everybody knows killers camp, it sucks, and it ruins the gameplay experience of others. No one appears to be challenging that here. Tsulan is just offering an alternative so survivor players feel less cheated during the event.
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@Krazzik said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3463396#Comment_3463396
That's what I'm saying, we survivors really should just give up if we end up in a map or against a killer we don't like.
People have agency, even in a game like this. If they want out, they are free to leave—however that’s going to look. Attempting to shame or condemn players for that decision is no better. And if people are bailing for identifiable reasons (does one ever really know?), it’s probably worth exploring why they dislike maps or certain killers. I was in a match today with someone who DC’d as soon as their heard a chainsaw—it was a Bubba who proceeded to slug two of us and camp the third.
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@Krazzik said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3463390#Comment_3463390
So true bestie, if I'm not having fun I'm just gonna kill myself on hook and who cares about my teammates. 💅
“Survive alone or together.” - DBD’s tagline 🤷♀️
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@Krazzik said:
People on these forums think that its bad to expect people to play the game and it's fine if someone gives up and leaves whenever they want.
I mean I don’t remember signing a Blood Contract when I installed this game. Was that in the fine print? Lol…
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@solarjin1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3462236#Comment_3462236
It won't kill the playstyle and it not soppose to. It wil just make camping less powerful Won't have to play the grab game and save the best won't be as much as a problem. You will be able to unhook much more consistently and maybe without even a trade (16 meters is enought to sneak in before the killer can get to hook in my experience with kindred)
Of course tunneling off hook will just take it place but most survivors rather that then being camp to death.
Tbh I see tunneling more than camping. Facecamping is pretty rare, proxy camping is common but not gamebreaking
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@Hannacia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3463122#Comment_3463122
Tunneling is also a cause to too fast gen speeds and overpowered survivor perks. Not all is black and white. Learn to see the game from both sides. Both sides have issues, but soloQ isnt as bad as people make it to be.
Biggest issue is other survivors and how well they play the game.
Killers have always camped and tunneled. When they could easily win games with OverbrineErupt they still camped and tunneled. It has nothing to do with Gen speeds.
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@Raz_cr0w said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3462988#Comment_3462988
Survivors are strong enough in chase already and you know that if you've seen the comp teams. I think it's more to do with possible gen efficiency being too high. But I also would like for tunneling to be discuraged by some sort of mechanic but NOT just that without a survivor nerf first
Most survivors aren’t strong in chase. And a killer doesn’t even have to be comp to win a match. They can be mediocre and win by tunneling/camping alone, which is why those are common strategies.
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Tunneling is common, face camping is uncommon, proxy camping is common, slugging 2-4 survivors is rare.
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Just run No Mither. It conceals the same degree of noise, works while you’re Exhausted, and even gives you Unbreakable.
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I think the current survivor META is focused around Gen completion. That’s the only way survivors have a chance at escape, now. Everything else is too unreliable.
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@JonOzzie16 said:
I literally just spent a match as Knight chasing my own guards and bashing them on the head and the survivors were still scared and ran away every chance. I had fun though and got my mask lmao.
Did you try to just nod at them? Or let them pallet stun you? Something to show you’re willing to farm
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3461240#Comment_3461240
Perks that add a partial heal for other actions, like maybe totem actions, or opening a chest (to synergize with pharmacy) could have potential... But not with hemmhorage in it's current state. It currently hard counters those effects and sloppy butcher is too prevalent to allow those kinds of perks to be useful in any capacity. Resurgence and reactive healing are already completely useless because of that effect.
But that type of perk has some design space they could work in: anything that encourages the survivor to do something as a side objective and give them a partial heal as an incentive.
I'm not even sure what they could do with hemmhorage tbh. It was strictly a ######### tracking effect before, and anything else it could do with the theme of bleeding out would be either barely useful (like the extra blood pools) or crazy powerful (like a slugged survivor bleeding out faster).
Maybe making cries of pain slightly louder while injured or dying would be ok, but that seems like a stretch too.
The healing perks that reward survivors with healing half-measures for completing secondary activities don’t see much use now. Unless the perk fully heals a survivor who avoids their objective (gens), I don’t think they’ll be picked.
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@KhrisCo said:
Here is what Rossburger had to say about the new anti camping measures coming to DBD.
It really is a half-measure that won’t stop camping. I dunno why people are acting like it’s gonna kill the playstyle. But tbf there’s no other game (assym or otherwise) that allows one player to hijack the gaming experience for another player. DBD is super unique in that way.
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Is the over abundance of Wesker really a thing? Since his re-enabling I’ve seen Wesker once out of 10 games. Small, insignificant sample size but…
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Hmm. When I play killer I like when survivors run perks that are, as Seraphor, said unnoticeable. I like when survivors run perks that don’t really enhance their performance. Obviously, I want to win (4K, by my standards) as easily as possible. I suspect most killers feel this way although they’re unlikely to admit it.
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@KenwanObinobi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3461167#Comment_3461167
Yes and ?
Survivors should not have an easy game when they are a SWF. That is the main problem with DbD.
Every killer should be viable against a good SWF, which is completely not the case.
Survivors also shouldn’t face inevitable defeat when they play solo queue. That too is a main problem with DBD. Every survivor should have a chance at victory against killers, regardless of whether they’re SWF or solo. This also isn’t the case.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3461350#Comment_3461350
Correct, and it is a survivor offering. The offerings for spawns are actually on the wrong teams. The survivor one makes them stay close together (what they do not want) and the killer one makes them spawn separate (what they do not want)
I’d guess the thinking behind those offering assignments is that survivors start together, get on a generator, complete it quickly & maybe do it again? While the killer’s offering was meant to weaken this effect. But it’s always more efficient for survivors to split up at the start of the trial. And it’s probably just best to remain split as this pressures killers.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3461163#Comment_3461163
So change the perk? The game shouldn't be balanced around a single perk.
It isn’t.
There is also an offering that compels survivors to spawn together.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3461175#Comment_3461175
They adjusted some med-kit add-ons, nerfed Toolboxes, nerfed Keys and dropped a lot of decent healing perks like Inner Strength, CoH etc etc
Well, keys are essentially valueless now, toolboxes aren’t very strong (just BNP-situationally), and I can’t really think of any healing perk ideas that wouldn’t just be reiterations of what already exists. So all they can really do is buff healing.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3460857#Comment_3460857
No heal meta after a massive healing nerf which prompted numerous complaints about how Survivors only did gens.
So what did BHVR do about it? It feels like killer mains want survivors to waste time with inefficient healing (not doing gens) but don’t want to expressly say this because it would sound unreasonable.
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@LapisInfernalis said:
That would make no Mither meta, finally a use for this perk.
Joke aside, I participated in the PTB with this feature and no thanks.
Was the PTB insta-mori OK or did you see a lot of abuse there?
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3460767#Comment_3460767
Those types of spawns can happen now. So you think it would be better to keep lethal pursuer being OP based purely off of RNG? or do you think maybe they could make that change so it isn't RNG anymore, then adjust LP accordingly?
That spawn is possible, but a system where survivors always spawn in clusters is clearly a large buff to the perk. I don’t believe the perk is OP as it is now. But it would certainly be OP if survivors always spawned in a way that maximized its efficiency without any killer involvement.