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Axx
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I really don't understand this. They acknowledge that Nurse doesn't need any buffs because she is a skill based killer. When the player is good at her, she is a true power role. While at the same time they don't acknowledge that survivor when played competently is also very strong, but also weak in the hands of a lower skilled player, just like Nurse.
Also they only show mixed stats of all player skills level. Why not show different brackets like 500 - 1500 MMR and 1500 - 2500 and so on. I surely hope this isn't intentional to hide how poorly most killers do in higher skill level play.
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SBMM and MMR are fine things, but you first have to make sure you game is balanced well. DBD is balanced for casual players, that is why survivor is so strong when survivor players are good at the game. It isn't because people want easy 4k. People want a fair chance to do well. Instead they have to sweat and try much harder than the side with many when you reach a decent skill level of play, and many streamers are at that level because they play the game for a living.
I personally don't watch survivor mains, I only watch people that play both sides, so idk if survivor mains are complaining about SBMM and MMR much. All the people I watch that play both sides usually just make comments regarding their teammates rather than the killer when playing survivor because I only watch solo survivor players. They have 100% made comments about SBMM and MMR while on killer though.
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@Rey_512 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2544402#Comment_2544402
And people can try and disregard this post, but I’m including direct quotes from BHVR to support my argument.
That doesn't matter. You have to remember a LARGE portion of players don't play killer much or even at all. They don't care about evidence or the observable reality of how DBD truly is when it comes to game balance and design choices, or how the game really is. They are bias and only acknowledge bad ideas or things when it only affects their favored side of the game negatively. Just look at all the people rejoicing over the Spirit nerf. The viable killer pool against actual decent teams is already jokingly small. Now one of few killers in that pool is getting nerfed, and most players couldn't be happier about it.
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Because the majority play survivor over killer. There are simply more people to complain about tunneling, while also seeing doing gens over totems and looting chests, which is fine, as not an issue. I think tunneling is fine and is 100% needed at certain times. I also think sitting on gens over doing totems and looting chests or even healing at times, is the far better option. Just remember. When people mainly play one side, or only one side, they become VERY bias.
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Are you really surprised? They are using stretched res after all. Most of the people I have seen use it have pretty undesirable personalities.
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I have been watching a lot of killer mains with thousands upon thousands of hours a lot since the MMR was added. These people even struggle to do well and they have 3k+ hours. One dude has 7k hours and today he struggled to even get a 1k multiple games. When the survivors know what they are doing and play to win, it doesn't matter how good you are at killer. They are always favored to win and especially so when they are a SWF on coms.
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The current game balance doesn't allow playing "nice" against survivors that know how to play. If you try to 12 hook, you will lose.
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@Pennywise said:
Why nerf SWF because one killer is being rebalanced? Not all killers are Spirit players vs SWF teams. Seems like a kneejerk reaction to some much-needed changes.
They are nerfing one of 3 killers out of 20+ that can do decently against optimal survivor teams. Why would they nerf one of the only killers that can do this? The viable killer pool for facing optimal survivors is sooooo small already. Why not buff more killers up to that level first before nerfing one of only 3 killers at that level? That is the whole issue. All but 3 killers are a laughing stock against survivor teams that play to win. Now it is possibly going to be 2 out of 20+ if her nerf is too much.
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@Apexgnifrums said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2515984#Comment_2515984
1st, the advantages survivors get are below 1%. Its totally Overblown, some people act af stretched is automatically wallhacks and let's you see the killer all the time. I only know a handful of tiles where stretched res let's you see what you couldn't have seen with basic 16:9, but that's so minor that even with 16:10 you could have seen more. We about to ban 16:10 monitors now?
2nd, Killer gets advantages aswell. Don't act if stretched is only used my survivors. Killers use it aswell and it gives clear advantages you see a lot more and survivors crouching, teching etc are spotted so much better.
Besides, wanna take it to next level and talk about deathslinger, huntress, trickster mains use crosshairs? Or how most killers use certain filters to make survivors even easier to spot? I don't want to talk about that. I'm fine with it. So should you about stretched.
Wow. You are actually trying to justify exploiting....
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@ShinobuSK said:
Posts like these makes you wonder how old the average dbd player is, exactly
Above 18 probably.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2519791#Comment_2519791
So, if a Killer wins in 3 minutes the Survivors were just bad.
If the Survivors win in 3 minutes, it is impossible that the Killer was just bad, no, the game is fundamentally broken and because of those Edge Cases, there need to be massive changes.
Sigh.
No, the killer can be bad, yes. But even good killers struggle to keep gens from popping against survivors that know what they are doing. It hardly, if at all, goes the other way.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2516741#Comment_2516741
Are we at the point where we use single videos to justify strange balance changes again?
Let me look up some videos where Killers won the game in 2-3 minutes then.
Are we at a point where we still use average level play as a basis for all balance changes, and totally disregard people not being bad at the game? Yes. Yes we are. Killers win games in 3 mins against low skilled survivors, or when the survivors make big misplays. As killer, you can make no mistakes and still lose because the survivors control the outcome of chases. On survivor, If I mess up on a mind game or, loop, I just hit my mouse button and I dash forward to a pallet and I'm safe 99% of the time. On killer if the first survivor you find can run and makes none or hardly any mistakes, you are most likely going to have 3 gens pop for your fist hook. You don't win games against competent survivors in 3 mins like ever. So please stop acting like it is a common occurrence because we both know it's not.
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@Angelicus23 said:
Over the years:
Pallets have been nerfed
healing has been nerfed
vaults have been nerfed
loops in every map have been nerfed
footstep sounds have been nerfed
every item has been nerfed
And you want more?
Even with all that, competent survivor players, and especially when in a SWF together, still control the game. How can people not see this? It is almost like they hardly if ever, but probably never, play killer.
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@NOEDENJOYER said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2517984#Comment_2517984
Almost every single game. It's the same experience every game with generators being down in five minutes, every survivor running some form of exhaustion perk while holding W extra early to make it take minutes to down them. Just look at the killer streamers, like TrueTalent for example, every game he has is a 2-4 hook game and its miserable
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2517986#Comment_2517986
Thanks for telling me you don't play killer at all.
But I don't blame you, survivor is relaxing and therapeutic.
There is no point in arguing with people that refuse to see the game for how it truly is. A large portion of people play against weak survivor players and base their opinion on how hard killer is off of that. 3 gens pop first hook? They say, "just get better at chase". When the reality is you have to rely on the survivor to make a mistake to get a quick down. That is what killer really is all about on almost every killer. You wait for the survivor to make a mistake, then you capitalize on it. If they don't make any, or not enough of them, you lose.
A lot of people really don't realize that every trial is a trial for the survivors to throw. That is how strong the survivor role is when played well. The only reason any player has a high win rate on anyone besides Nurse, Blight and Spirit is because the survivors made mistakes. Like killer streamers going on 50+ 4k streaks on lower tier killers is 90% due to the survivors playing poorly and making mistakes.
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DBD is like WoW. Nothing will beat it or top it. WoW is in a terrible state atm, but it still has the most players out of every MMO on the market. VHS will probably do fairly well if it's a good game, but DBD will always be the top asym game.
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@Kalinikta said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2518124#Comment_2518124
You realize the logic flaw in your reasoning right?
If to enter the upper echelons of the community you need to play those 3 killers, therefore the solution to your issue would be to not play those killer and you would not meet those players... as by your own accord: they only face those 3 killers.
Yet you are denouncing the entire role meaning that even at lower levels where even the worst killers reside meeting far lesser survivors hit the same issues. The MMR is killer based after all and if you are facing issues on all of them... it really showcases it isn't just the top 10% of the community. Yet here you go and state; it is all good... the hypocrisy is strong.
How is the solution not to play those killers? The real solution is for BHVR to recognize how badly this game is balanced at even mediocre survivor skill level. This game is very survivor sided outside of average casual skill level play. As soon as the survivor players realize how to loop and that doing gens> over everything else besides unhooking = win, you are going to struggle on killer. The survivors don't even need to be that good against most of the killer roster. They can drop pallets instantly and waste tons of time while the other 3 just do gens.
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2514737#Comment_2514737
I’ve been apart of the DBD community for only almost 1 year and 4 months and have 1.2k hours.
Wow. 4k posts in one year. That's crazy.
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You have over 4,000 posts on here. You have been apart of the DBD community for years and probably have thousands of hours played. Now think to yourself, are you really surprised?
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2514656#Comment_2514656
Pretty much every killer can be good if you know how to play them.
No they are NOT against COMPTENT survivors. You can keep telling yourself this over and over, it still won't make it true. If you truly believe this you most likely don't play much killer. Only 3 killers on the killer roster are even decent enough to have a chance. Even then, the killer is still at a disadvantage and will need to play very well. The survivors on the other hand, they have 3 hook states, and a ton of second chance mechanics that will help them still be able to win, even if they make mistakes.
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2513227#Comment_2513227
T he game feels pretty balanced to me. Play whatever killer you want and don't worry about getting them 4Ks every game. I still stand by what I said.
It is not about always wanting to 4k. It is about having a chance to do well. What do you not understand about that? It's about having more fair and balanced matches that can swing either way, and not trials where 3 gens pop by your first down so you now need to sweat and camp and tunnel to have a chance.
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@ShinobuSK said:
She was 100%. On the forums at least.
I really wonder whos the next "nerf X killer" now
Wraith has been getting complained about A LOT for the last few months.
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@ShinobuSK said:
She is not. Thats just a list of killers getting few add ons changes.
So crate of gears and tempered timer are gonna get rekt, and thats probably about it lmao
Source:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/29NZLS1ZVCWT/screenshot-20210923-191922.png
It would takes years to rebalance add-ons? I can understand it isn't like boom, and done in a week, but years? That seems like a very long time.
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2510489#Comment_2510489
Perhaps now people will stop saying killer is fine and stop ignoring balance requests because their own personal experience has mainly been against bad players.
They have known this for years. EVERY decent player has known this for years and a lot of them have been telling BHVR for years. Marth and his depip squad and on and on. It all has gone in one ear and out the other. They do not care about competent level play. The majority of players are lower skilled, so that is who the game will be balanced for.
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2512838#Comment_2512838
I don't agree with everything in this post, but I do agree with some of it. A lot of killers seem to think getting a 3K or 4k every game without having to try is balanced. I guess the want easy kills without having to work hard for it.
People just want to be able to compete against good survivor players as a good killer player. Only 3 killers in the game even have a possible chance to have a decent outcome against 4 optimal survivors. The rest are a joke in competent skill level play. Also, "killers just want to 4k every game without trying" is a lame strawman argument that bias survivor mains keep using because they love how unbalanced the game is because they benefit from it.
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You're gonna keep on waiting.
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😂 is me after seeing this post.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2509021#Comment_2509021
And don't you think that's a problem? Don't you think that having a game that is so fundamentally unbalanced that you would be better off doing asinine challenges instead of trying to win is a problem?
These games are NOT infrequent anymore. It's one of these, then a game against complete babies.
You would be surprised by how many people don't care or see the problems competent survivor cause balance wise. Most that don't see an issue usually only play survivor, as you probably already would've guessed. Now, I'm not saying the OP of the just do challenges comment above doesn't see an issue, I'm just saying there are many that don't see an issue and don't care. I'm also not saying people shouldn't be allowed to be good at survivor. The only reason they are so strong and hold so much power over trials is because they devs allow it with the way the don't factor in optimal survivor players in their game balance decisions.
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If you are a decent killer, you can't play not sweaty and expect to do well as often anymore. You have to try and play to win.
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@xenotimebong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2505463#Comment_2505463
So are you saying that survivors who play well shouldn't win, but killers who play well should? I'm confused as to what point you're making, you say that survivors who play well are strong and that's unbalanced, so they should be nerfed, but also that you shouldn't lose if you play well.
If you have a full team of survivors playing well with no weak links and few mistakes then they probably SHOULD win because the game is asymmetrical and survivors are balanced around teamwork. One weak survivor link can drop the whole team, is that also unfair? Do you complain that survivors often lose because there was little they could do due to their team, and not because they personally played badly? Or is the fact that survivors are balanced around a team effort okay when it causes the survivors to lose, but a problem when it causes them to win?
That is not what I'm saying. What I am saying is that even if you are a good killer player, good survivors will still beat you more often than you will beat them because the game balance is focused on average skill level play. You have to rely on the survivor making mistakes you can capitalize on to do well as killer. Your skill alone cannot win you the game. I have no issue with people being good at survivor or good survivors winning. The issue I and many other people that care about this game at higher skill level is that a good killer player on the majority of the playable killers can't compete against 4 good survivors. Even when the killer player is good with a S tier killer, the survivors are still favored if they are good.
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I feel like Wraith is in a decent spot right now to deal with average survivors, but I play both sides so I see the whole picture. Some people apparently think he is OP. I really don't see it. Most Wraiths I encounter still struggle when multiple people on the team can run and are just decent at survivor overall.
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@Sluzzy said:
As pallets and loops have slowly and slowly been nerfed, less fog in the maps, gigantic palletless deadzones, and killers are extremely aware of where survivors are always located due to aura perks, the only thing left is to hold W. Survivors slowly adapted to killers having no counterplay on the map.
Basically, everything has been nerfed except the W key.
Oh please. Almost every killer in the game has the same counter and that counter is very effective. Anytime a killer breaks away from this counter, people whine on every forum. So they stopped putting out killers that break away from circle, circle, drop pallet.
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@baseballfan4877 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2507022#Comment_2507022
Could be that, but I think balancing the game would be in their best interest in the long run. More people will tell their friends about how wonderfully designed the game is. Now it is a game that people play, but wouldn't recommend it.
They have the only active game on PC and console in this genre. They don't need to worry about balance and so on.
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@Hippie said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMwNsiS8shg
Yeah, healing is unnecessary... sure...
Not meaning to be overly snarky or anything but I think it comes down to game awareness more than the action itself. I was only a couple seconds away from being fully healed, and I know I can't communicate that effectively but it still sucked that she didn't touch me for at least one second to see I was near full health. And yeah, I could have played that better, but it still sucks when something like this happens. It's not the first time that if we had been a little more altruistic then the outcome would have been better.
I personally prioritize healing over generators (in proper situations) because I would rather not have me or my teammates run around exposed while the Killer has clearer priorities, i.e. only three gens left to patrol. I'd rather be able to take a hit and bodyblock for my teammates than get the generator done a little faster and be one hit away from a faceplant.
I literally just played a game yesterday where no one would heal me because they were too busy with generators (I was chased by the Huntress most of the match, didn't go down though), and I ended up being unable to take a hit for my teammate and they went down outside the exit gate and I got forced out. Instead of making a flat statement, telling people to not help out their teammates in an endgame scenario, maybe encourage analyzing the situation and making better calls based on game knowledge and situational awareness.
You are really going to use that clueless/selfish Feng as an example? Like, any decent solo player would've healed you after that gen popped. You were smart with finishing that gen before you wanted a heal. You couldn't have known she would do that.
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You 100% have to use gen slowdown perks as killer if you want a chance vs the decent teams will eventually face. I personally use CI and PGTW.
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Pinhead is so terrible vs decent survivors it is hilarious. I was playing SWF with some people the other day. Every Pinhead we faced pretty much never got their passive. We literally had someone always doing the box right before his passive activated. He had to choose to break chase with an injured person, or go to the box almost always. Not to mention his lunge is bugged.
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A lot of people do this and it costs a lot of possible escapes for at least 1 or 2 players. Most survivor players seem to lack experience or just lack common sense to just push gens over doing other things that aren't necessary in the moment.
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It is an advantage overall. I tried it for a week and it made looping so much easier. I could see killers over rocks and hay bales trying to mind game me by moon walking because of the increased vertical FOV. It even made looping other things easier due to the slight increase of the horizontal FOV. Like you can hold certain angles at shack and see the killer that you can't with normal res. Granted the horizontal FOV increase isn't as much as the vertical one, but it still gives an advantage. I eventually turned it off because it wasn't fair and I really didn't need it to do well on survivor. Survivor is already in control when played well. Why add more of an advantage was/is my thought.
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Because Billy is hard to play well. He takes a lot of hours to master curving around loops. You used to see him more often when he had instant saw add-ons because you didn't need to be good at curves on him with those add-ons to do well on him if you were a decent killer player overall. Now you have to be good at curves to have a decent outcome against decent survivors.
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@Tsulan said:
"Q) As you've added more perks to help the killer control generators, have you seen any change in gen speeds?
A) The perks are, of course, useful- but they don't want to make it something they absolutely have to equip constantly. And if people are feeling forced into generator slowdown perks, then it's not good for the game and something needs to be done."
This part right here. Killers have been struggling with gens for over a year. Feeling forced to stack several gen slowdown perks and the devs did something about it, by nerfing Ruin, Undying, Pop and Lullaby.
They mean at average skill level my friend. Nothing else matters. As long as mid tier killers have 50% or above kill rates due to lower skilled survivors inflating them, nothing will change. It sucks to be decent at this game. Especially if you play both sides. You will always have to just ignore all the obvious balance issues just because you don't fit into a certain player demographic.
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I used to main Freddy before his 2019 rework. I loved using class photo and pill bottle combo. I also remember being called a trash killer when I would use double block add-ons. Since his rework, I have played probably less than 20 games with him.
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This is why people play SWF.
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Killer is already fighting for time. Killer is all about time management and adding another thing for killer to do is crazy. Gens only take 80 seconds solo. Imagine having to possibly spend multiple minutes looking for a totem as killer. This just shows how out of touch they are with how DBD play out above average play.
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if you want to 100% avoid sweaty players, the best thing to do is hook everyone once and then chase and slug until they all escape as killer. On survivor I would assume you would have to die early, but then you don't really get BP or a chance to play. I have done this on Blight seeing I had never played him before MMR, and I keep getting new survivors. I just practice and let everyone live.
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Play killer for 100+ hours before going back to survivor. Then you will know why people tunnel, camp and don't chase at strong locations.
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If you are healed, you personally aren't advancing the trial. It is very reasonable.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2505420#Comment_2505420
OH NO, poor guy is loosing games? This can't be right.... BHVR wake up! And he played well too? Well if he played well when where must be a mistake clearly! Ok I changed my mind, nerf survivors to the ground bhvr if killer mains saying they are playing well and still loosing something needs to be done! And he also lost few games againts me too, so where is definitely something wrong because I'm terrible at dbd. And those 50win streaks? 100wins on plague? Clearly thats OK! But come on, poor guy "looses" few matches in his 8 hour stream 😢
It must be nice to live in your own little world where you don't see the real reality. This is why DBD is in a terrible state. People don't care about how OP survivor is when played well because they benefit from the terrible balance. Why is it okay to lose just because there is little you can do and not because you played bad? That is like telling survivors, sorry, the killer just wins by default because we balanced the game in a way where the killer will win or down you no matter what. Remember OG Legion? They were basically that. Guess what. They were nerfed. Granted they needed to be nerfed, but survivor is basically the same when you get 3+ competent players on a team and especially when they are on coms. Wake up. Stop being delusional and bias. People should lose because they played worse than their opponent. Not because the game balance makes them lose.
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If anything SBMM has shown how survivor sided this game is. Go watch some good killer main steamers. They are losing a lot more games now, and are struggling for what wins they get. I really don't see how anyone can say this game is killer sided. As soon as you run into a decent team as killer, you struggle. If you are a decent 4 man SWF on coms, you only struggle vs like 3 killers, and the killer player also has to play well.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Lol, all killers have more than 50% kill rate, if they gonna balance gens as per your suggestion bhvr would have to decrease time needed to do gens.
Same bloody thread again and again. "Oh no, I'm not winning 90% of my games anymore, bhvr ruined the game!"
Yeah because survivor is so weak, lmao. People literally lose on killer just because of the terrible balance. Go watch Otz or other high hour killer main players. They are losing games even though they play well. Just because the survivor role has all the power when played at a competent level. You literally can't do anything against 3+ good survivor players on almost the whole killer roster. Wake up. Not every game is against clueless 50 hours played solo survivors. Every trial is a trial for the survivor to throw. The killer should always struggle. If the killer isn't struggling, some of the survivor players were bad. It is really that simple.
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@Triadequinaxor said:
the game is unbalanced on both sides, killers are becoming boring to play against, holding W meta, is anyone having fun?
Yeah SWF teams with decent players on coms are. Solo survivor and killer, not so much.
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You dodge the lobby. That is the only thing you can do. I refuse to play against, or with key users. I dodge on solo survivor and on killer.