Atrushan88
Atrushan88
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@Frank_Sriracha said:
Every survivor I've played against running the Big Four (DS, Adren, BT, DH) have had similar complaints about my playstyle whenever I switch to a defensive approach. They've also been quick to ridcule me for using NOED or even BBQ and Chili. Every time I've had these complaints, it comes from the same people who run the Big Four. Why are they so entitled?
Why do so many survivors run clear crutch perks and complain when Killers do anything similar? Why do survivors yell "camping" when I patrol around the area after noting everyone is playing super altruistic? Why do they yell "tunnelling" when I decide to remove a meddlesome player after a second hook, like, 15 minutes into the game after giving them quite a while to become relevant? Why do survivors lie and tell me that DS and BT barely ever come into play after I wait out one of those timers?
I don't hook them if they keep running into me after being unhooked. I always hit the unhook-er and not the unhook-ed. I even give hatches to especially difficult survivors. Can they be pleased, or must I mute them all to stay sane?
You realize two of those perks are 100% to counter killer's terrible attitudes when playing the game, right? If killers wouldn't camp and tunnel, no one would be using those two. That said, I see no reason to complain about NOED, usually only bad killers run it anyways. You can pretty much always tell when a killer is using NOED. There is a valid complaint for BBQ, although probably not the one the survivors you're talking about are complaining about. The valid complaint is how easy it is to get vs WGLF.
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I'm going to keep my Freddy build a secret because I never wanna have to go up against it lol. It's probably worse than Forever Freddy ever was.
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@I_Face_Camp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/902499#Comment_902499
Well I understand that camping can be a big negative to new players but I'm in very high ranks so I'm not really driving anyone away from the game. Along with that, alot of high rank survivors know how to counter camping and minimize its damage and quite frankly I still dont understand the survivors raging hate towards camping. I think it can be fun to play against between the jumpscares and risky saves. Not to be rude but if you quit playing a game because you got camped is kinda a pussy move. Either they didnt like the game all that much to begin with or they should maybe just stick to PVE games.
You don't understand survivors disliking you for literally forcing them to be unable to play all game once you get them on the hook? How as a survivor is this fun at all? Even if you're not on the hook you just gen rush to try to minimize the damage as much as possible. It's basically a pointless game because as a survivor you won't get BP, likely depip and its literally only going to be a good game for one person.
I just want one hook deaths where it's harder to catch survivors with more LoS blockers and stuff to compensate. That way the most unfun part of DBD which is considered an exploit in Pretty much every other pvp game is removed.
If a killer is camping me I suicide on hook. You don't get that 1000 extra BP/emblems for hooking me 3 times if someone does actually manage to get me off because you don't deserve it and you're creating a game that drains the life and energy around everyone you're playing against by preventing BP gains for them as well as removing fun.
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I don't always see moris but I see them a lot for various reasons. One person brought a flashlight? Mori. Two people have toolboxes? Mori. Two people have med kits? Mori. I've gotten to where if I wanna use a flashlight I switch to another character then switch back at the last second. But when I see one mori, I generally see them back to back to back. I can go some games without them but then I'll see a bunch of them.
As for what I do when I see a mori? Attempt 1 to escape? Failed. Attempt 2 to escape? Failed. Attempt 3? Failed. Oh no I just pressed X too late on my struggle. =/
If I succeed I just run right up to the killer.
Mori games are wasted games so I recommend just getting it over with as fast as you can because you won't get much BP out of them and they're not fun. Just get yourself killed so you can move on to the next.
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@THEghostface said:
Blah blah blah, infinites are gone, BL is garbage... for chases at least. Balanced is good in a chase for one use, but it is basically a stealth perk more than anything now. Working on any gen in a 2 story area makes a silent getaway very possible with the 100% reduced grunting while you're falling and landing. I've effortlessly juked killers on the swamp and Lampkin Lane thanks to BL covering my noise.
What disappoints me though is that I thought the reduced survivor noise was the new passive, but it is ALSO tied to the one time use of BL like the stagger reduction. Still, not as bad of a perk as many perceive its new version to be. It just needs to be used differently.
If that's the case they need to remove the exhaustion effect and the sprint burst from it and make it remove sound all the time and call it light footed or something. A chase perk that is also tied to stealth creates an identity crisis. You can't use the stealth in a chase and you can't use the chase aspect for stealth. It's problematic.
With the way the game works people prefer perks that have a use all the time. That's why BL was chosen over SB or DH.
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@FriendlyGuy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/894989#Comment_894989
But they got the same texture as the darkness itself lol.
There are always certain colors that stick out, or a shining outline. Also they made dark clothes brighter several patches ago so..
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@FriendlyGuy said:
It's an okay map, if you don't got blendettes as enemy. You'll never find them, seriously, never.
I can find them. I don't understand people not being able to find them. You will basically see a big hump in the grass. The only annoying thing to me on the map as killer is that there are so many obstructions it's hard to move around in. Well not hard just annoying.
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@LordRegal said:
The map heavily rewards stealth gameplay and encourages losing the killer over extended chases. That being said I, someone who cannot loop to save his virtual life, kept a Myers busy long enough through periodic LoS drop and creative movement he left me to go find someone else. So my assessment is it sucks for looping but my preferred style of actually trying to lose the killer it’s great.
I tend to find everyone in this map at some point. I have yet to see gens get done and most of the time there are 3 or more left. They hide pretty well, but bright colored clothes show fairly easily in the grass. I don't see why people are saying it's too dark. I mean it is dark but there's pretty much nothing they can do except hide.
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@Desolate_Sands said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/893070#Comment_893070
Well, they are the meta perks for a reason. Maybe killers don't want to be forced to run ruin+pop every game but it's just about required for them if you don't want to play a super strong killer like billy and still want to run around going chase to chase.
Except killers only usually run one or two gen slowing perks(and some killer players can play without them).
Bringing gen slowing perks is a thing you do to slow gens down. Ds+Unbreakable+BT is to counter unsportsmanlike conduct. Not to mention 3 perks compared to 2.
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@Desolate_Sands said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/893044#Comment_893044
I know DC's were not counted, I am just making the comparison of DCs / killing yourself on hook and showing the defeatist mentality of many survivors. Between DS / BT / Deliverance / and unbreakable there's plenty of options to stop all but the most determined of campers.
The problem with this is it's wired in perks and that puts you in the position of "Welp, I'm screwed", if you don't take those perks. Maybe I don't want to be forced to run DS in every build. It's much more fun to me to avoid games where a killer played in a way that forces me to take bandaid fixes than to play it out so only the killer gets to have any fun.
Even worse, most non meta perks require entire 4 perk setups or at least 3 perk setups to work well enough. So say I take 3 perks and DS. Now I don't get camped or tunneled but someone else does. No BT. Yay another anti fun situation.
@NoShinyPony said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/893022#Comment_893022
The Game has also a very high kill rate and yet The Game is super survivor-friendly. The statistics don't reflect the gameplay potential of a map.
And gen distance is a fact.
Look up "best killer maps" for DBD. I guarantee you the Game map is one of if not the top one recommended even from a year ago. I have never heard a killer say the Game map was survivor sided.
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@Desolate_Sands said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/893005#Comment_893005
Well it just sounds like the survivors in that situation are not equipped to deal with a camper. Luckily, at red ranks, you can assume literally everyone has DS and BT.
If you are a survivor being camped and you ######### while your team is working on gens, that is 100% throwing the game for everyone else. Every second you buy is incredibly important, even if all you are doing is looping for another 20-30 seconds until you die.
I have seen survivors literally DC for "being tunneled" when as a team it cost the killer 3 gens to hook them twice because of DS. They still had an extra hook to go, still quit.
Or I have seen survivors who DC as they are being picked up for their death hook during endgame collapse, giving the killer enough time to secure another kill because they didn't have to waste time going to the hook.
It's all those sorts of things that make me think the seemingly staggeringly high kill ratios are probably not as accurate as it might initially appear.
DCs were not counted and if me or someone else is gonna be forced to sit on a hook all game it's better for everyone of the match ends quickly so they don't have to deal with it anymore and that killer doesn't get as many bp/as much fun out of ot.
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@NoShinyPony said:
Hawkins is not a killer-friendly map. The gens are too far away from each other to patrol and the loops aren't all bad.
Over the course of time, survivors will get better on this map and you'll have a harder time as killer.
People have had plenty of time to adjust to the map and the kill rate on it is almost 70%. The highest of any map in the game. The map is also really small. I can travel to all the gens pretty quickly as killer and I don't think i've had a single killer game where all gens got done on this map.
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@Desolate_Sands said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/892928#Comment_892928
Uhh, people still one-hook themselves regularly at red ranks.
And I disagree, because games where people instantly gave up shouldn't really be used as data points for game balance discussions. It just means 1 person decided to screw over the entire lobby in that instance, because dead by daylight is not balanced to be a 3v1 game.
There's plenty of games where I am getting completely whooped as a killer, borderline contemplating DC, but then manage to crawl my way back to a 3k or a 4k. People killing themselves on hook denies any chance of this happening for themselves and their team, and ultimately skews the data.
If you're camping, then that person would have died anyways, and if people are trying to save that camped person, they would too because gens aren't getting done. The time it takes, a killer camping could get 2 kills potentially if survivors were optimal on gens. I don't see how this would be a win if no one is doing gens and are instead trying to unhook that survivor being camped, and if they'd played it out, you'd get 2 kills at the very least resulting in a "balanced" game, but most likely more.
Also I don't see many one hooking themselves and I was red ranked until I came to this epiphany to ensure I don't have to sit through killers who wanna play like dicks and am able to more easily get quality games without wasting time even if I depip. Also one hooking yourself is a guaranteed depip so this can't be that common in red ranks unless it's people who just got to red ranks. You can't stay in red by one hooking yourself.
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@Zagrid said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/892360#Comment_892360
"Killer here" I doubt that and I doubt you even read the post. I addressed that. Now tell me killer main, how long do you games last? How long do you think games should last? Lets say if you were so efficient at killing you could beat how survivors rushing gens or should I say "doing their main objective"
3 survivors on gens 1 getting chased.
3 survivors can get those gens done in 80 seconds. So unless you want 60% of the survivors objective done by the time you did 8% of yours, you have to down the survivor in less than 80 seconds. Lets say you play a decent killer billy. Now this survivor you are chasing knows those mind games and can loop efficiently causing you to need to chase them fairly normally and break pallets and such. On a map such as blood lodge even if you were really good at looping there are enough pallets on the map to have that survivor be chased for well over 80 seconds. Yes all the pallets would be gone, but they are playing to escape.
So lets go with you down them in 80 seconds 2 gens left 1 survivor on the hook. You have 2 options go for another survivor, or camp the current one. If you go after another with good old BBQ 1 survivor goes for the save and they decide not to heal since they want to gen ru- I mean "do their main objective" So they get on a near by gen. 1 survivor is now being chased, last one has been working on a gen this entire time about 20 seconds.
The person you chase has less stuff to work with but gets you to blood lust 1 each hit, a good survivor won't get into the position to be chainsawed. That chase takes about 30 seconds to get each blood lust and maybe 20 seconds to catch back up after the hit. You go to hook them. The last gen just popped. 80 seconds for 3 gens. 20 seconds for the save. 60 seconds for that last gen to pop since 2 survivors on a gen takes 44 seconds. That is a grand total of 2 min and 40 seconds for every gen to go off.
Now you have the same situation, do you go after another survivor or camp the current one. Me having 900 hours in the game, I think camping would not be a terrible idea since if you leave they just get saved and leave. But if you go after another survivor with the help of BBQ you risk getting no kills if an exit gate gets opened.
Option 1, go after another survivor, you find another survivor near an opening exit gate with their friend that they unhooked, it took a while to get over to that side of the map so the gate is half way opened. Logically you start looking for the injured one and lets say you actually found them. At this point there might be a pallet around there might not be. But if you chase for even 10 seconds that gate is opening because of the other survivor who hid from you since you chased the injured one. You chase and despite the odds you down the injured survivor and hook them. The other 2 survivors are waiting at the other exit t bagging, the last survivor you don't know but you know the exit you are at is 99%. So you start looking for that survivor, but gasp they went around and unhooked the survivor. So you see this foolish move down the hooked survivor, but wait borrowed time. They start running for the gate so you chase, they open it, but the healthy survivor didn't body block correctly and you hit the borrowed time survivor. Quickly you pick them up to stop them from leaving.
But... DS you get stabbed, they T bag and all 4 survivors leave.
This story is not fake, I have seen this exact scenario play out over 100 times over streams, videos, and in my own experience. Given the only fabrication of this is, the map had to be specific since Blood lodge has so many pallets it is very easy to loop every killer on except spirit, nurse, and huntress. Anyone killer who cares about pallets will have a rough time with that map. The other thing I didn't address is items. A good tool box just makes this story go by even quicker and can end the game in sub 2 min and 30 seconds.
However, I also ignored ruin. Ruin could make this game go on for about another minute if not found, or extend it 20 seconds because it spawned next to a gen.
My whole point is that unless if you have faced that 1 team the infamous "De pip squad" you will never know how much power survivors hold in their hands.
Now don't take this as survivors OP plz nerf. I am saying that the only reason that this game has killers playing it is because survivors waste this potential in almost every game. Solo survivor is perhaps the weakest role out of any side. Solo survivor is frustrating as you have a killer who can tunnel, camp, or smurf into dumpster you and your team. But you also have your teammates who can be that rank 21 who will hide and crouch after catching a glimpse of the killer across the map, and they do nothing the whole game no saves, no gens, all they do is hide.
The balance of DbD comes from survivors playing badly. That is the point, and after this update, a lot stopped playing badly because of the things they heard about Oni being this overpowered monster. This makes every killer game since the update that I have played a stressful, unfun, and overall terrible time.
That is the point. Also gen rushing is another term for "doing the main objective". If you read the post I addressed that.
I quote: And before you make that comment "GeN rUsHiNg IsNt A tHiNg" It is, and basically it just means survivors are treating just like their main objective.
3 gens may pop in a small amount of time if you have trouble with pressure but once those 3 gens pop the game slows down tremendously for those last 2. Unless again, you are having trouble pressuring. Most of the game is inbetween those 3 gens popped and the exit gates opening so 3 gens popping really fast doesn't make a whole lot of difference because you only have 2 on gens when you get your first hook, if they're a coordinated SWF. If not, likely no one is on gens because they want altruism points. It becomes significantly easier after your first hook.
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@Desolate_Sands said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/892777#Comment_892777
Well you also can't take the statistics at totally face value. A ton of my matches (like probably 25%+) have survivors killing themselves on first or second hook, which completely screws over the rest of the team and basically hands the killer a 3-4k. In fact, it happens so often in my games that I would argue survivors killing themselves artificially inflates those numbers. By how much? That's anyone's guess.
That being said, Hawkin's is insanely killer-sided and with BL now dead I agree it's going to be a total nightmare for survivors. I guess it kind of makes up for all those years of Haddonfield?
Dead is dead. Besides i've been one-two hooking myself recently as well. If a killer camps or tunnels me, they don't get the rest of their hook points off of me. I might depip but having a chance to put them back where they belong and also rob them of hook points is worth it to me.
Anyways i'm sure it was a large sample size where not every game someone one-two hooked themselves. I mean it was red ranks wasn't it?
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@GamerCustard said:
The BL nerf is completely fair, and done so to prevent the constant abuse of that perk in a chase.
Is it useless in some maps and matches? Yes. But so are a lot of other perks. So many of the available perks you can never guarantee you are going to use. Perks are there for enabling better survival all game but also as a safe guard if some things don't go according to plan. Like DS, for example. No, it may not be an exhaustion perk but my point is that you may not even get to use it most of the time! You can't expect for the devs to tailor all the maps with one perk in mind, because they don't do that to other perks that could only be considered map based either.. because you can never be sure you're going to end up using a perk to full capacity in a match.
The point of exhaustion perks is to give the survivor a small advantage over the killer - most of which involve a speed boost or like DH, a free save on a hit. Furthermore, it's not like these perks have the same properties as Unbreakable and are limited to one use per game? BL isn't a once a game perk (like Adrenaline is, and which is also an exhaustion perk..) and you can use it again once you can outlast the exhaustion.
So, remove the speed boost and therefore the exhaustion and leave the passive? How many of y'all would complain if they changed it to be like that? Taking away that sprint boost would almost ruin the perk. Yes, you could use it indefinitely after that but how much of that boost is contributing to out running the killer? Even with a reduced stagger reduction, the killer would still be able to catch up depending if the perk is still used to loop the killer.
If y'all aren't using the perk to loop a killer, and don't want to stealth the perk, would you be content with no boost after the fall?
I like how you say you don't get to use DS all the time but I do every game. When I don't take DS I have a ######### game because the killer tunnels me so hard I was basically one hooked.
The only useful perks are perks that have consistent use. Diversion for example? Oblivious, undetectable, etc basically make it pointless to ever bring in a game. DS has consistent use, that's why it's good. There are very few situations where it doesn't come into play.
As for BL, it was only good because of the stagger reduction. 95% of the time you have to go out of your way to use BL, most of the upper floors have windows for Lithe on the ground floors as well. You're risking the killer getting a hit on you using all that extra travel time to the upper floors just to use Balanced. The only thing that made this worthwhile was the stagger reduction.
The muffled noises won't come into play because you just used BL to extend a chase. You're not gonna lose the killer with muffled noises when you leave scratch marks all over the place. If you're not in a chase, you won't be exhausted anymore. You can't make a chase extender into a stealth perk, especially if a killer sees you using BL, they will know you can do that.
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Almost a 70% win rate on that map. And just had a Wraith burn a map offering AND proxy camp the hell out of people. Funny thing though, if you look at the stats, all maps are killer sided. There are only a few that are less killer sided than others.
@Exxodus21 said:
Survivors rely on being able to see the killer approaching and during chases, finding hex totems easily, and being able to easily run from one pallet to the next. Hawkins makes it much harder.to do all of those.
Actually the problem with Hawkins is that every pallet is unsafe and the only good loops are ones where you could use BL's stagger reduction to succeed. There are so many upper areas that without BL you're boned and now the stagger reduction is gone I expect this map to go up to like an 80% kill rate.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/887325#Comment_887325
Uh, there is a point in camping the hook: To interrupt the other survivors when they go for the save. That way you can get free hits, or get a grab. If the survivors are just sitting next to the hook, in plain view of the killer, waiting for the killer to leave, then the killer has no reason to leave the hook alone.
It's not camping if another survivor is in the vicinity and you know for a fact that they are. However this is a rare occurrence, most of the time people literally sit there without anyone around.
@DaGreenBolt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/882347#Comment_882347
Lol I remember when I took a break from the game at one point, and when I came back I was reset to rank 18. I played a game, and got absolutely destroyed, but I was able to get one kill.
Found out that it was a SWF squad as 1 person was red ranks, 2 purple ranks, and 1 a rank 19 player. It almost made me want to take another break, I feel sorry for the poor souls who had to faced my ebony mori, and infinite tier 3 myers after that match.
So they technically they exist, you just completely missed that if you have a rank 17-20 player in your SWF you are going to face low rank or new killers and completely crush them.
That used to be a thing but now the killer is only allowed to be one rank color below the highest ranked survivor iirc. That can't happen anymore.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/886651#Comment_886651
I take it you haven't played League of Legends much. At the end of the game, if your team refuses to surrender, the opposing team will often camp outside of the fountain so you can't leave, and use long-ranged abilities to snipe you while you're in the fountain, or just dive you in the fountain because they can one-shot you before the fountain kills them.
Random spawns and temporary invincibility don't help you if there's a chokepoint on the map that you have to pass through. If somebody camps there and you have to go through there, the only way you can play the game is to kill them before they kill you. Which is why camping is still extremely common in Call of Duty and CS:GO, to this day.
Spawn rooms prevent the enemy team from entering in Team Fortress 2 and Overwatch, but the enemy team can always just camp outside of the spawn rooms and kill anyone who tries to leave.
In order for 3 people to escape through the hatch, only one Survivor needs to die. If the killer has set up a 3-gen at that point, the game is far from over. But if the survivors have a key, the killer can do nothing to respond to it. Even if he finds the hatch first, it doesn't matter. Even if he uses Franklin's or kills the key-holder, the other survivors can just pick it back up.
There are a lot of ways for the Killer to put a survivor out of commission and force them to wait for help, or wait to die. If you can't deal with that, then don't play Survivor.
The game is already over at that point in League, and you still risk dying, the enemy can still kill you, and you still are risking a comeback by doing it. The only person able to auto attack away from the fountain is Caitlyn and even then she might need a RFC shot to perform that. Either way at that point the game is pretty much over and you'll only kill each person once unless the game was extremely short and respawn times are still short. It's very hard to call that camping and you've already won at that point. Camping in DBD happens extremely early in the game on the killer's first hook. If you like griefing you're apparently welcome to it as BHVR enforces it, but it's still a dick move and there's literally no point in doing it aside from pissing people off.
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I feel like they should compensate this by buffing blood orbs dropped when running. He'll easily be worse than Wraith with this change.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/886185#Comment_886185
Keys prevent killers from playing the game. Instead of being able to chase survivors and get kills, the game just ends. And by your own logic, killing a survivor is griefing, because they don't get to play anymore.
"Most PvP games prevent camping?" No, they don't. There are countless examples of PvP games where camping is a thing. Team Fortress 2, Overwatch, Call of Duty, Counter-Strike: Global Offensive, DotA 2, League of Legends, Heroes of the Storm, World of Warcraft, Global Agenda, Half-Life: Deathmatch, Unreal Tournament, Quake... the list goes on and on. In any PvP game that allows you to just stay at a fixed position and wait for the enemy to come to you, camping is a thing in some form or another.
How is camping a thing in League of Legends? You cannot enter the fountain, it is extremely risky to try to kill someone at spawn. Unless you're talking about jingling which is entirely different. I imagine the same goes for all of the other mobas you listed. All of those games I am sure have some sort of protection system in place upon respawning. You cannot prevent them from finishing the game. Random spawns, temp. Invincibility, etc.
Keys do not prevent play. In order for 4 people to get out through the hatch, the game has to be pretty much over. In ALL situations, at least 3 generators have to be finished for more than one to get out through the hatch. Also you know what I am talking about, you're just making snide remarks. If a survivor dies on one hook because a killer camped them out, they had no control over their situation and were unable to play the game once caught. There's no situation where a killer cannot play the game unless it ends. Killers have control over how they can respond to situations throughout the game. Survivors do not have that luxury if a killer decides they don't want them to play after hooking them once, despite normal gameplay meaning to allow them 3 hooks.
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@I_Face_Camp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/884329#Comment_884329
Bringing keys is griefing. Bringing toolboxes is griefing. Oh and insta heals are also griefing. Oh yea and killing a survivor is griefing.
Literally none of those prevent a killer from playing the game. Instaheals also no longer exist.
@Polychrome_Baku said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/882347#Comment_882347
Spawn sniping is still a thing in ground war and TDM in the newest Call of Duty. People camp in games. It isn't going to change. The only thing you can change is how you react to it. This community's default reaction always seems to be unintelligible screeching. I feel like a lot of people in the DBD community have never really played a PvP game besides this one so they are emotionally ill-equipped to face a loss. Everyone loses. Everyone has been camped at some point in their gaming career. Either you can move on and learn to deal with it, or play single player games where nobody can hurt your feelings.
Hell, if the other survivors just did gens then the killers who literally face camp wouldn't stay in the game for very long. Since they would only average one kill a game.
Most PVP games prevented this because it's problematic. The player on the recieving end can't play the game.
A killer still has time to get another victim before all gens are done.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/884329#Comment_884329
"Holding the game hostage" is defined as intentionally creating a scenario where one or more survivors can neither escape nor die, thus forcing them to either disconnect or wait for you to let them go. For example, you can accomplish this by trapping a survivor in a corner, bodyblocking them, and never hitting them. Thus, they have no choice but to disconnect if they want the match to end. And that's a reportable offense.
Survivors can also take the game hostage, to some extent, by intentionally hiding in the outskirts of the map, never doing gens, and never getting into any chases. Thus, if the Killer can't find them, the killer has no choice but to disconnect if they want the match to end. Before the addition of the EGC, survivors could also take the game hostage by hiding after the exit gates were opened.
When you camp somebody, they always have the option to die, and after 120 seconds, they will die no matter what. Therefore, you're not taking the game hostage for anyone.
It sounds like you don't play killer much. If you "play nice" (i.e. Follow the survivors' arbitrary rules on what you are and aren't allowed to do), you're not going to do well. If every time you get a hook, you immediately leave the hook and run off to a distant corner of the map (Even if you see a survivor and/or scratch marks), you're throwing the match. Patrolling the hook, heading back to the hook after you receive an unhook notification, and downing the unhooked survivor if there isn't a better option available, are all legitimate strategies, which often prove necessary to win against competent survivors.
Holding the game hostage by BHVRs standards is what you described, yes, but BHVRs standards are extremely low. A survivor in a camping situation only has options that lead to them losing outside of someone else saving them or hook trading. The game for them is very much being held hostage. They have no control in that situation and the killer camping them is making sure they never get control back. Saying it's not holding the game hostage because DCing isn't your only option despite being in a situation where you lose no matter what is a very one sided belief.
As for your "survival rules" scenario, surely you aren't ignorant enough to believe that's what survivors think. Most just want a fair game. I do play killer, and I don't camp outside of very few "required" scenarios and even in those scenarios I only proxy camp because they deserve a fair shot. Staying near a hook when a survivor is near it is not camping. Not chasing that survivor in order to protect your hook is.
I tried camping in order to prove what another killer said(that he made it to rank 1 purely camping. He also said he did it literally for the salt when I asked why he did it), but I couldn't do it. It's too scummy of a tactic.
@Awakey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/884329#Comment_884329
We aren't thinking, "I'm going to camp this guy to make him have a bad time!" No. We're thinking, "I'm going to camp because in this scenario it is the MOST EFFICIENT tactic."
I'm not trying to ruin you experience, but that also doesn't mean I'll improve it.
I've had many when I asked why they camped(with no survivors around) and all of them say they like salty comments from them. So I disagree with your statement that people don't go into the game intending to ruin players' experiences.
Also I could sit at someone's spawn point and shoot them in the head over and over the second they spawned because it was the most efficient thing to do to win, does that mean I wouldn't be griefing them because how they feel about it isn't in my thoughts? No. I'm still griefing if I do that. Same with camping.
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@Awakey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/883315#Comment_883315
Camping isn't griefing. That's a fact.
As for the perks, using them more doesn't make them any stronger. So if they aren't balancing the perks now, then it's not likely they'll be changed in the future. The perks I mentioned have been changed at least once anyway.
@I_Face_Camp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/883315#Comment_883315
It's not griefing. Depending on what killer I play, I will intentionally go into a game with a camping build.
You're deliberately making other players' game experience miserable with the intention of doing so. It's griefing. It's just "legalized" griefing because BHVR doesn't want to let go of it.
You're holding the game hostage for that one player who is on the hook. Saying it's anything else is lying to yourself.
@FancyMrB said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/883315#Comment_883315
Hot take: the killers existence is griefing.
Everything the killer does is to stop the survivors from succeeding at their goal. They can camp, they can tunnel, they can mori. They can do whatever they want to get the job done.
Same goes for the survivors. They can stun, loop, body block, etc. They can do whatever they want to survive.
What is fun/rewarding for one side, is at the detriment to other. Shocking!
But hey, I guess all those killers are just out their griefing making everyone's game experience miserable. What a bunch of jerks huh?
That is only true if the killer isn't intentionally making the game miserable for every survivor by playing like an #########. You can play normally and it can be fairly fun for everyone. Or you can camp and tunnel because all you care about are survivor tears. One is griefing, the other isn't. Nothing survivors do directly force the killer into a hostage situation where he just had to sit there and die on one hook despite being given 3 in a normal game. The worst they can do is move their model up and down.
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@Awakey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/882347#Comment_882347
The point is for people to learn their own protections, such as not getting caught, borrowed time, kindred, DS, stealth, SWF, etc.
The thing is camping is literally griefing. You see it all the time. A killer gets mad he's not doing well or a survivor tbags him or loops him for too long, then he camps them. It doesn't matter what BHVR defines griefing as, because griefing has its own definition. BHVR might not punish it, but it's griefing.
As for survivors learning their "protections", getting caught is inevitable. There are things put in place to where if a killer cannot do well enough they are still able to catch a survivor. As for the others, people complained about the Kindred buff saying it was OP, and they also complain about DS and BT endlessly. It won't be long before they become a "problem".
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@theArashi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/881605#Comment_881605
If you think that DS is used to prevent people from tunnelling and DH is a weak perk then it tells people a lot about your experience as survivor.
DS being used as anti tunnel perk is fine but most of the time it isn't. It is used to gain immunity by jumping in a locker, it is used to recklessly save survivors off hook, work on gens, break totems and other things even after other people are downed are hooked.
DH is a safety measure. You use it to fix a mistake and more often then not that mistake is what decides if killer gets you downed or you extend a chase by other 20-30 seconds. It isn't useful in the open field but it grant you extra distance during looping.
I jump in lockers as a survivor because otherwise the killer who is tunneling me will slug me. Jumping in a locker is counterplay to people avoiding consequences of tunneling on most occasions. 9/10 times the killer is rushing back to down me again. It's not immunity if you can still be downed. The only time DS could possibly be used in a way to grant full immunity is during the end game and at that point the killer is somewhat forced to tunnel. People who complain about DS 9/10 times are complaining because they don't want consequences for their actions outside of survivors actively trying to get you to hit them because they have DS, but in most occasions that's stupid because you'd just get slugged.
As i've said. I've used DH at maximum distance for it's ONLY good use(to get to another pallet) and still been hit through the pallet. Lithe or Balanced(current patch anyways) are 10x better than Dead Hard.
I don't even see Dead Hard as any kind of threat when I play killer. Every other exhaustion perk annoys me far more.
As for your arguments about the killer perks.
If you didn't have BBQ, outside of camping, you'd have to spend more time finding the next survivor. You can't tell me knowing where your next target is not powerful.
Pop: You can use this a maximum of 11 times. You don't have to use it every time. It's literally just a benefit of what you would normally do, kick a gen that's got a lot of progress before chasing that survivor near it. Or would you just let the gen go to chase that survivor you spotted even though you know where they are pretty much?
MyC: 32 meters is not that all the way across the map. That's less than 8 or 9 seconds distance for a 115 killer.
Dying Light is anything but weak. Most killers in my experience use Ruin for early game and Dying Light for after Ruin is gone. Dying Light after enough stacks slows the game down to a crawl. The only buff the obsession gets is heal speed and that's rarely used.
Sf/End: it shortens loops whether you drop it early or not. It's not completely countered.
Frankies: So this isn't a commonly used perk to prevent key escapes or groups with multiple items and considering that isn't powerful at all I guess that means if there was a survivor perk that removed a killer's power and addons for the rest of a chase after dropping a pallet on them you would agree it's not that powerful? I mean survivor "powers" are items and addons are the same as killer addons. I guarantee you'd think even removing a killer's addons for the duration of one chase would be overpowered. If it wasn't so useful, killers wouldn't use it.
Haunted Grounds: there is a chance that it won't come into play at the opportune moment, but there's no negative effect to using it, just like all the others, which read my argument.
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@TunnelVision said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/881571#Comment_881571
And all the newbie killers that face depip swf squads! GG
A depip squad will be in red or purple ranks.. At most they will face purple or green rank killers.
@Awakey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/881561#Comment_881561
I understand your frustrations over "git gud", however my statement isn't technically wrong.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/881571#Comment_881571
That's their fault, not mine, for a couple reasons.
- I don't differentiate between new players and veterans. I play the same way.
- All new players should come into the game and expect to lose. Maybe not every time, but I'm just one of probably 5-10 killers they'll face that day alone.
Expecting to lose is one thing. Camping is the equivalent of sitting at someone's spawn point and shooting them in the head countless times in an old school shooter before they started making protections against it.
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@BenZ0 said:
But you should not give up that fast honestly, I check out first how the killer plays, no offence but most of the killers that use ebonys or ivorys are not good. If the killer is bad enough where you could ran him around for a long time you can still kind of annoy him as much how he trys to annoy you with his mori. I ran around a huntress with ebony and iridiscent head for 4 gens and she dcd even with noed xD. I know its a scenario that would not happen THAT often but it is a chance and even a better feeling when you bring a killer to dc with mori. I would even say its the most statisfying feeling in the game as survivor even I am killer main.
If I could run the killer for 4 gens before being hooked, sure. I'll play it out if we manage to get to the end game. But if I'm hooked, then there's no point in playing any further. The killer is gonna be right there for when I'm unhooked to mori me off the hook. If the game isn't going to be fun, and I'm not gonna get many BP for playing it(being forced to gen rush), there's no point in playing the game out. Just had a game vs a GhostFace where I gen rushed. Got 8k at 1 gen left before I was hooked. Fun right? Naturally he was camping hooks anyways.
Oh and it's been like this for like 6+ games now with a mori in almost every game. One time it was a cypress the killer didn't get to use. Every other time it was an ebony.
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@BenZ0 said:
Its still a ######### move to your teammates but I can understand you, its defenatly a reason to do that.
The killer's gonna mori me off hook anyways, may as well save myself some time. I doubt 3 or 4 seconds will do them any good and really I'm saving them time so they can do gens.
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There can only be one!
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/881714#Comment_881714
Probably because they needed a fixed spot, and the coats wave around.
If the coats can wave around I'd think the pins could too.
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@humanbeing1704 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/881713#Comment_881713
the amount of ######### times I've been sucked to a repair instead of vaulting
Yeah, it's friggin brutal. I actually actively avoid the killer shack unless just to use the pallet any time there's a generator in there.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/881691#Comment_881691
I think it has to do with any outfit that has a coat. The different placement is probably their attempt at avoiding the coat covering them up.
I don't see why they don't just attach them TO the coat.
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The generators in the killer shack are also especially annoying.
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Good job on making sure SexyTwinkBoy stayed with you. I would have too.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/881689#Comment_881689
Both of the shirts in the picture are defaults. Many characters come with 2.
That's why I changed my wording after I wrote it, lol.
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Well I was mainly talking about her everyday outfit. It looks weird.
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Have you seen Feng Min's? It's like up on her stomach.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/878124#Comment_878124
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/567/IXYORFXGVO27.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/412/MISY53GFE6N8.png
This is a game I 4K'd and I still didn't pip. In green ranks.
If it was instead red ranks and a survivor had gotten the hatch (very possible due to the key by the way), that would have very possibly been a depip instead of a safety pip.
Did you hook each of those survivors 3 times? Because it very much looks like you didn't.
You have silver in sacrifice and brutality. That means you hit survivors maybe 7 or 8 times. That's one hook each survivor.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/881635#Comment_881635
I dont have one, so no I cant.
I meant anyone in general. Cuz it was on PS4. I have seen some extremely fast Hags as well, but I assumed it wasn't possible to do hacks like that on PS4.
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From what I've experienced they're all pretty much the exact same if you use them for healing yourself, which if you're bringing one, you might as well be doing, outside of ranger and emergency. The emergency med kit which increases healing speed on yourself as well but is only 16 charges. I don't even use med kits anymore because of how messed up they've been.
I would assume the best possible med kit combination is Rangers with Gel Dressings and Self Adherent Wrap, or Emergency Med Kit with Sponge and Rubber Gloves(or Surgical Suture).
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/881626#Comment_881626
Either the shroud literally did nothing or you faced a speed hacker, lol. Normally would take a leatherface a little over 10 seconds to reach you if he went straight at ya, but hackers gotta ruin it for all of us.
Can you even hack on PS4?
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I pretty much one hook myself every time I see a mori in play. Every killer who uses one crab walks between gens while facing me waiting for that unhook so they can mori me. I'd rather just get on to the next game where I can actually get some BP rather than have a game where the fun is sucked out of the game completely AND I might only get around 8k BP.
If I kobe, I immediately run up to the killer and let them have their mori.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/881617#Comment_881617
Thats impressive seeing how the offering would place you roughly 90 meters away from him. Those 2 maps are both pretty large lengthwise.
As I said, Vigo's Shroud is useless, lol.
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Leatherface, lol.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/881587#Comment_881587
Im not saying thats not possible. A killer with a 32m TR spawning in the middle of "The Game" which has 64X64 dimensions is going to have their heartbeat heard by everyone on the map right away. Im just saying on average...Thats less likely to occur on any given map if youre spawning across the map. Also, being in TR doesnt even mean much alot of times considering how large the TR can be.
It was Crotus Prenn.
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/881552#Comment_881552
That's fair enough. Again, not saying any of the complaints were invalid. Just predicting that there may be some people (not talking about you) who don't understand cause and effect.
Yeah, I know. I just feel like most people would have been fine if they only changed the problematic ones. I think I'll still be close to finished with the rift by the time all the challenges are completed. I'm on Iridescent Age right now(had to go the killer route because the unhook 2 survivors during EGC one is blocking my progress) and I'm pretty close to level 50 on the Rift.
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@Financial_Stability said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/881585#Comment_881585
For the first four perks, you have to hook a survivor. It isn't free, you have to work for it. What do you need to do to activate DS? Get unhooked and have 60 seconds of immunity. What about DH? You need to be injured and press E. Spirit Fury requires you to break two pallets, Haunted grounds is more of a mindgame if paired with ruin. In general killer perks require more effort to activate and gain use out of than survivor perks. And when you have 4 survivors that turns down a dark road real quick.
DS is to allow you time to play the game instead of being tunneled into oblivion. Dead Hard is not even that strong. The best it can do in the best situation is to allow you more time to get to the next loop, but I've used Dead Hard at max distance to reach a pallet and drop it and still been hit through it. Killer MIGHT have had BL 2 or 3, but that just means there's no guarantee for Dead Hard. Most killers expect it as well, so don't miss swings against injured survivors.
Also none of those are DOWN SIDES. You have to hook people, so what? That's what you're supposed to do, you're rewarded for doing your job. Spirit Fury requiring you to break 2 pallets, again, that's something you as killer will do anyways. Where is the down side?
Would you rather a survivor have DS activated every time they pallet stunned the killer so that when they went down you just couldn't pick them up? Or get the ability to Dead Hard, injured or not, every time they blinded the killer?
Overall the only good survivor perks aside from exhaustion ones are bandaid fixes made by the devs to prevent negative killer behavior(DS, Borrowed Time, Unbreakable). If survivors didn't have to bring those pretty much every game in order to even be able to play it, they wouldn't. When I play survivor, I literally cannot take off DS. The minute I do, I get tunneled into oblivion by someone who just wants to play like a jerk. Spine Chill because the ones who do play like jerks are generally GhostFaces or Spirits, Unbreakable(if I had it on my David), would be another I'd probably use a lot, because people slug to avoid the consequences of DS. Being pretty much forced to bring DS every game severely limits the possibility of my build options because almost every non meta perk requires multiple other perks to work along side it. Talk about downsides.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/881563#Comment_881563
Demogorgon is likely to be placing portals at key locations, similar to how Trapper or Hag has setup times. Vigos would place you in generally the safest spot you could go to. You could make the argument that ANY location is worthless if the killer beelines straight at you, but the killer doesnt really have anymore reason to completely cross the map than to checkout other possible spawn locations.
As I said, I've spawned and heard a killer's TR 2 or 3 seconds after. Vigo's is useless.
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@Blueberry said:
The problem is you won't get a lot of constructive comments as a lot of people here won't agree with your base premise, "The game is survivor sided" to begin with. I do agree with you though.
Most the top tier survivor perks are just all universally good in almost all scenarios, have very little reasonable drawbacks/counterplay, ask very little of them to work and are game swinging in their effect. This is the polar opposite of killer perks as almost all of them have heavy downsides, requirements/heavily niche and/or counter play.
The solution seems pretty straight forward to me. Add those things to the perks.
I just have to ask. What's the downside to BBQ, Pop Goes the Weasel, Make Your Choice, Dying Light(You could argue the downside is the obsession can heal better, and isn't affected, but the healing better barely comes into play, and not being affected isn't a downside, it's just not an upside), Spirit Fury + Enduring, Franklin's Demise(You can literally ignore a survivor offering with this), Haunted Grounds(I mean it's not perfect, but there's literally no downside to it and it's a free tier 3 Myers on any killer), etc?