AssortedSorting
AssortedSorting
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The stick does need some work regarding the aspect of showing lobby perks (and going next), such as a dodge penalty for too many avoided lobbies.
But I don't disagree that some perks should see improvement.
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@devoutartist said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3889204#Comment_3889204
i called it in the first version of 2v8 that 2v8 would become the game mode for a majority of the dbd players 2v8 fixes 95% of the problem that 1v4 has on top of being is supper casual friendly lmfao most ppl didn't believe me here we are
It's a stark departure from normal gameplay
It can capture the 2nd largest group of survivor players (group of 2) into the Killer role.
It allows Killer players to take part in the typically second largest group of Survivor player (being tag-team) and the appeal of increased strength (solo adding another Killer).
Lights out and Chaos Shuffle don't offer much gameplay differentiation in comparison. (Apart from BP bonuses, catering to the grinder and opportunist)
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Huh, so the downvote button has been reintroduced, well, downvote if this is a bad idea? I really don't get the lack of frankly… any response at all.
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So far as I'm aware, in an asym, it will never "feel" balanced. And that's kinda the point, especially for a "horror movie" asym. Some survivors will die.
However, getting killed immediately as surv probably doesn't feel very engaging from a gameplay medium perspective.
So we have Sacrifice Stages, so the Killer can get downs quickly, giving a sense of power.
But then we have the issue where Tunneling and Camping can happen to a stark enough degree where it's not the Hooked survivors fault for being found immediately after hook (with the Killer utilizing their individual power to cut them down quickly), but rather just another a method of killing a survivor as quickly as possible to essentially "kill them immediately" and bypass the "breather" of potentially redirected focus from the killer.
(and then the eventual issue where if it's addressed, that Killer doesn't have enough gameplay amp from getting multiple hooks base-game)
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3886880#Comment_3886880
In this case though: why issue a penalty? If its that clear, why even give the player the option?
If condition 1 and 2 are true, and no unhook perk or AFC present, no unhook option is presented. Instead you're risking angering players between the difference of a 2:55 kobe (bad) and a 3:05 kobe (perfectly fine)
You're not wrong, I tried to oversimplify an example. I'd expect it to not be hard cutoffs for time, and likely have players get flagged for hitting most of that criteria in a game that can result in a penalty if that kinda stuff happens too frequently in their matches.
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It probably won't be very complicated at all:
- Were they Killed before 3 minutes elapsed?
- Were they the first Killed?
- Were they trying to Kobe at first sacrifice stage
- Did they ignore the second stage skillchecks?
If yes for all, then issue a dodge penalty.
I'd imagine it's more about preventing players from being able to exit early (thusly screwing their team over in a 1v3)
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Well I suppose this more relevant now.
Also adding the Carrot concept for Killer:
@AssortedSorting said:
Devotion system in the Trial.
Gain charges that cause Trial altering effects. Grow in Power over the course of the Trial.
Gain 1 charge for Hooking a Survivor that wasn't recently Hooked
(Recently refers to within the last 3 (2?) minutes)When Reaching 2 charges the Auras of all Survivors are revealed to you for 4s
When Reaching 4 charges the Generator with the most progress is blocked by the entity for 30s.
When reaching 6 charges your Obsession receives AFK crows.
When Reaching 8 charges you may Kill any Survivor other than the Obsession by your hand while they are on Death Hook.
When Reaching 10 charges gain the effects of NOED and you may kill Survivors by your own hand regardless of Hook State.Offerings could be introduced or altered that augment thresholds and/or effects.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3885844#Comment_3885844
Sure, but you have to agree this is not an "anti-slug" mechanic whatsoever, its just buff to slugging
I mean that's why I said it's adjacent to an anti-slug mechanic and more so a Surrender option.
(it does at least reduce the overall time spent slugged in certain scenarios)
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3885831#Comment_3885831
Or I could just go afk, use the bathroom, make a coffee, take a break and at the end of the day its gonna be the exact same outcome
And this is an option for those that are interested in playing the game? I assume it'll be an individual choice given it requires all other players in the dying state. So you can still go and do that while whomever else chooses to surrender. Choice.
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@Bvzry said:
Everything you guys listed is a really good improvement to make the game more enjoyable for all and I want to start off by saying I really appreciate that. Now what i’m worried about is the counter to the ‘go next’ epidemic. The punishment is tough but fair but the requirements are iffy. For dying on hook what if its just two survs and the hooked person wants there friend to get hatch? Or what if the reason people run at the killer and stop or point at hooks is because of the fact that the killer is friendly or its a farming match? I have trust you’ve considered these for when this comes out but I had to write this anyway just in case.
I assume time spent in match, emblems, BP (and also not being the first to die), may be markers used to lessen or prevent a penalty being applied.
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Doesn't necessarily mean it'll only be the stick. Could introduce carrots in there too.
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@Rudjohns said:
"anti-slugging surrender option"
great, slugging will be even stronger now, why bother hooking if the survivor can just surrender on the ground?
While it's adjacent to an anti-slug mechanic, it's more so a surrender option. They do have anti-slugging slated for Part II as well, where we might see a competitive anti-slug mechanic added, but this helps prevent 4-party 4-minute bleedouts. (I do hope it's player initiated and not automatic though)
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It was a game designed around active user participation. It would hit or miss.
Raiding being more of a Puzzle-shooter is much more of an FPS niche.
Builders being incentivized to make those puzzles as annoyingly difficult as possible instead of as engaging as possible certainly doesn't help.
And as you note, the puzzles having a lack of variety (hear warning, get defensive/shoot, or see enemy and shoot, reach core) didn't help either.
I'd have preferred more interesting buildcrafting/progression for the Raider role myself, but that's from the perspective of a builder type player.
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No.
Getting yourself killed early, even if the other players have additional hook states, messes with gameflow.
4 Survivors means:
- 1 Repairing
- 1 Hooked
- 1 Chased
- 1 Rescuing
If you take a survivor from those roles away it starts to play HEAVILY into the Killer players efficiency and gen denial.
I could see it being used as a later-game effect:
Transfer up to 2 hook states (requiring the other players having them in the first place), maybe.
But not adding additional at the expense of your own possible.
It also doesn't need additional detriments aside from being Broken.
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So, about the "core framework" of Invocation Perks.
What I gather is this:
- Must go into The Basement
- Must Perform an Action for a significant duration of time
- Interruption can significantly impact overall time-efficiency
- "Powerful" effect impacting the rest of The Trial.
- Only one Invocation can be applied to a Trial at a time.
What does this do to gameplay?
Pros:
- It gives a novel incentive for a Survivor to enter The Basement
Cons:
- Depending on overall metagame usefulness of Invocations, its Ritual will nearly always be completed without interruption, or Perks like Territorial Imperative will feel like they become "mandatory" to combat the Ritual.
- Only one Invocation effect allowed can result in SoloQ redundancy.
I personally would have suggested that invocations become more of a "flavor" of existing effects that just require the player to interact with something in The Basement.
EG:
Self-Care ⇒ Weaving Spiders
—Invocation time is 20s
—Invocation Perks are Inactive until an Invocation is completed, activating all Invocation Perks of assisting Invokers.
—When you're Injured, become Hindered by 90% for 3s and regain a Health State, this perk then becomes Inactive.
Treacherous Crows
—Invocation time is 20s
—Invocation Perks are Inactive until an Invocation is completed, activating all Invocation Perks of assisting Invokers.
—This Invocation gains 3/4/5 Tokens upon activation, and becomes Inactive upon using all Tokens.
—The next time you startle a Crow, consume a Token and reveal the Killers Aura for 5s.
Stake Out ⇒ Weaving Spiders ⇒ Auric Hands
—Invocation time is 20s
—Invocation Perks are Inactive until an Invocation is completed, activating all Invocation Perks of assisting Invokers.
—This invocation gains 4/5/6 Tokens upon activation, and becomes inactive upon using all Tokens.
— Good Skillchecks become Great Skillchecks and consume a Token.
Bond ⇒ Beckoning Beacon
—Invocation time is 20s
—Invocation Perks are Inactive until an Invocation is completed, activating all Invocation Perks of assisting Invokers.
—Your Aura is permanently revealed to all other Survivors.
etc.
But pertaining to your changes:
- There needs to be a trade off for using an Invocation as they are now, being significant permanent Trial modifiers.
- I agree that adding progress to blocked generators would be a nice QoL for Weaving Spiders.
- I don't agree that Invocations should stack, as if they did, the time benefit of stacking them all on one person (60s instead of 240s) would be too massive to not do so if Invocations are your jam. Boons at least are limited by radius, Invocations as they are, are a permanent modifier
- The above being said, it would be nice if players could see the Perks others bring in to help reduce accidental redundancy.
- The Aura read on Treacherous Crows could certainly be a bit longer, but for the remainder that a Survivor is within the TR is inconsistent between certain Killer Powers and could potentially allow coordinated players to utilize it as a permanent Blood Amber effect in-chase.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876936#Comment_3876936
That makes it much better but still not really the best.
I do hope the feedback about a potential rework for Beast of Prey is still taken as it is since the base effect of Undetectable as a chase perk really does not work that well.
I think with the duration increase, and there not being a cooldown, that this Perk may now be moving in a different direction:
Find a survivor, chase then a little while, possibly hold back on a hit until Bloodlust triggers, get the hit, and disengage using that extended Undetectable state to get the jump on another survivor who may be mispositioned.
(Edit: just read the 2nd Dev comment, so yep)
More favorable for a hit and run playstyle. Might be a good combo with Hex: Face the Darkness (since you're undetectable everyone will scream regardless of distance). Though the need to wait for Bloodlust might cause you to waste more time)
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876815#Comment_3876815
They still do. I believe Scott was right when he said in another video that more veteran players are more likely to give up, because they can see the grand scheme of the match and see it's going downhill fast. Lesser survivors would naively continue to make their bad macro plays in the hopes of somehow winning. "1 gen left! Time heal up, let our teammate go to second stage, hook trade anyway, and then heal up again instead of the gen!" When I'm survivor I'll play what looks like a lost match just in case we win, which we sometimes do, but that requires the other players to keep playing for real as well.
That's a fair take. I'm probably just basing it off of my own personality.
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Although……
By tunneling you're not applying as much pressure on all survivors at once, possibly giving them a reprieve and a feeling of temporary safety if they're not the ones being tunneled. (if not spite to pound out gens).
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For your own personal games, yes.
Play competitively and you raise your MMR to face competitive people, who are typically not likely to give up at the drop of the hat.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876362#Comment_3876362
The way I'd go about this is make the BP's gained in a match a total of all 4 survivors efforts put together, so you can have an incentive to keep watching and get BPs or not feel bad when you're tunneled out when playing with friends. Or better yet, have all 5 players BP's count toward their grand total, encouraging fair gameplay for all when and stopping tunneling people out to maximise BP gain possibly.
I don't understand why so many perk abilities dont have score events either.Problem: "keep watching" doesn't make it a game, it's still a "movie".
How about something like after being killed/sacrificed there's an echo ("spirit form") of themselves still stuck in the Trial until it ends?
This echo is able to see Survivors (but not the Killer) and other echos, Survivors on Hook are able to see these players.
This echo is able to interact with points on the map where an event occurred to them:
- Where they got hit by the Killer
- Where they were Healed or where they helped heal another survivor
- Where they were Hooked
- Where they were downed
- Where they repaired a generator
- Where they opened a chest
- Where they cleansed a Totem
- etc.
Interaction with these points duplicate the BP earned (getting the same amount of BP as the Killer did at base for certain events), but isn't able to overcap Trial bloodpoints. (incentivizing trying not to die too quickly, and doing stuff)
Survivors that successfully escape the Trial get 50% more bloodpoints that bypasses Trial BP caps (as they aren't able to make use of this feature, and to incentivize not just sacrificing themselves)
Echo players can also opt to exit the match via the quit match menu option without any penalty, or phase through the Exit gates.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876497#Comment_3876497
I feel like making the anti camp meter visible would be the way to show the killer being nearby without giving too much information.
Yeah. Still not a fan of how the anti-camp feature was handled design-wise, but that'd work (in terms of communication). Of course that doesn't really help when it comes to alerting about proxy-camping.
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@WolfePhD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876305#Comment_3876305
I really like your idea, but this would be very difficult for the developers to tune, perfect, and implement.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876153#Comment_3876153
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3875718#Comment_3875718
I'm interested to read why you both feel that way. I'm not able to figure it out based on the clues left behind.
Comms still need to communicate that the Killer is nearby.
Killer aura reading circumvents this.
The community just needs to reach a consensus on what flailing means and you now have a method of communication.
That being said I still don't like base-kit kindred as it adds more visual clutter to the game.
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Thinking about it more, the more irked I am about this.
From a core gameplay perspective, VHS isn't a game about Teens against a Monster, it's a group of player-hunters against a solo player-hunter. At the end of the day, both roles end up trying to kill the other (and arguably the Teens have the flashiest hunting tools, checkpoints, and collaborative capabilities).
Which is why yes, he's absolutely right that no hyper lethality/Power fantasy for Monsters made it an unattractive choice for player hunters to choose, as there's little incentive to pick the less attractive version of player-hunting (especially when you can player-hunt with your friends).
But DBD is different, and he points out exactly how:
The Survivors aren't playing PvP: their win-condition is sourced entirely from co-op completion of Environmental objectives and actively trying to evade/delay the Killer. (You could argue that flashlights and flashbangs are PvP enabling components, and I'd agree, such tools need to be carefully monitored).
The Killer is the only one playing true solo player-hunting PvP.
Two different game-modes in the same game, with players typically choosing the game-mode they prefer at the moment over what is statistically the easiest/hardest (Or the one in which they're able to socialize more in, regarding SWF). This helps keep queues healthy so long as those roles provide an attractive enough experience to maintain their respective audience.
But it's also because of this difference, that I think the stance that "not having camping or tunneling ruined the game" falls short to a degree in DBD.
I agree the Killer needs to be an unstoppable force. I like that the Killer catching a survivor is more or less inevitable (once they understand the game/burn through enough survivor resources). I like how the gameplay dynamics can shift over the course of the match (Kills just being a staple tool that causes this). I wish that getting a Mori was a bit more dynamic and not tied to the end of the game so I could be more like an actual slasher during the match.
But I also think that Survivors need to be able to actually play the game-mode they queued up for. If the Killer is on a Survivor, they will get them down (ideally within a reasonable amount of time). If the Killer then sits in front of the hook the rest of the game, that player doesn't get to play their game, and the rest of the survivors don't get to engage with the evade/delay aspect of gameplay. If a Killer immediately downs a survivor after they got unhooked in front of them, and rehooked immediately, repeatedly, they just never get to play that game. Not because they didn't have the skill to, but because the system is setup in such a manner that there was nothing they could do.
That stuff just serves to make players jaded and miserable under the assumption that if they get caught even once their game is over (and on the flip side it'd be like letting survivors be able to indefinitely run from the Killer, or the feeling of the game being over if you've only gotten a few hooks and three generators got finished).
That being said, presentation matters. And I think the mention of "But that's a totally different feeling than what you get in VHS where so many systems and rules are set up to make it systemically difficult to kill a Teen" might be a slight dig at DBD's anti-camp features.
To which I agree, the current anti-camp features feel less like the Survivor was being crafty, or they were aided by an ally, or leveraged an unnatural force in a Faustian bargain with The Hunt resuming, and more like the system just says "no, you can't do that". (causing some "ludonarrative dissonance")
But If you want those rabbits to flee from you, well, it's hard for them to flee if they're just stuck hanging in place, and there's nothing to flee from if nothing's chasing them.
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@Feneroe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876362#Comment_3876362
An eliminated survivor can still spectate. There should never be a mechanic that allows an eliminated survivor to affect the outcome of the match.
Yes, their "game" now becomes a "movie", but it is no longer a game.
I agree they shouldn't be allowed to interact with the Trial any further, but it'd be nice if somehow it was still a game.
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Because ideally the goal is to emulate a slasher flick: Killer kills a couple people and the last one(s) alive escape. Then based on skill players being able to shift that to a degree.
Unfortunately, while a moviegoer gets to continue watching through the movie without any media shift as characters die, once a Survivor dies in DBD their engagement with the game media ceases.
Really hope they add some kind of "afterlife" mechanic to keep players playing after they die, and ultimately able to see if their efforts helped others escape from the Killer or not.
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"VHS failed in large part because the Monster couldn't tunnel or camp. It seems clear to me from the design that they looked at DBD and figured that the biggest thing its players hate is tunneling and camping, so they eliminated those tactics."
I think VHS failed not for a lack of camping and tunneling, but from a lack of what Almo mentions later: "the sense of an unstoppable Killer".
In DBD's gameplay loop the Killer is always "finding/chasing the Survivors" and Survivors need to "hide/run from the Killer", but in VHS the Monster must "find/chase/run away from Teens" and Teens are actively incentivized to "hide/hunt down the Monster".
The inclusion of the Monster needing to run from Teens and Teens needing to hunt the Monster changes the core gameplay loop significantly.
I'd argue that camping and tunneling are not core pillars of DBD gameplay, just paths of least resistance. I think methods could be introduced to alleviate some of the pain points involved while still maintaining the Killer as an unstoppable force (Example here)
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What is with the sudden influx of these kind of posts instead of just commenting on an existing one. It's like it's a bunch of bot spam. (Edit: seems the mods have consolidated everything, appreciated).
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3839490#Comment_3839490
I see you still live on these forums.
And no, not strange takes. I'm right. Period.
So what do you suggest?
On a somewhat related note, what's you take on the design of the Smokebombs from the prior event?
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Now that's an edge-case if I've ever seen one. Wonder if this also theoretically applies to Pyramid Head's Cages.
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@Gardhome said:
The problem is in first version of mod gens pop like flyes. So devs trying to listen both sides. Nerf genrush and let survivors save each other.
Well. I mean. This information isn't in a vacuum.
This mechanic is actively incentivizing survivors to split up on gens, which means they genrush faster by being less likely to consolidate on a gen wherein the Killer can interrupt multiple survivors at once instead of only one (with the rest doing gens).
So while this might seem like it's to prevent genrush, it actually promotes it, lol, since survivors can learn about that mechanic.
It's just like how the shroud offerings are inverse in effectiveness: Killer wants the Survivors to start bundled up, so they either are hit with a repair speed penalty on a single gen, or they spend more time moving to different gens. And Survivors want to spawn apart from one another so they can mitigate the repair speed penalty as they navigate to the nearest gen to them (as they didn't spawn near another survivor).
Shoulda been something like:
- Caging a Survivor empowers your next Break Action on a generator, regressing it by an additional 10%
- Upon being Caged, the Aura of a generator is revealed to that survivor, they can interact with that generator to reduce the needed repairs by 10%
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Dog
Pet
yey
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@HolyDarky said:
Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance is a fine perk and does not a rework. It helps many killers to get passive regression and no longer work with tunnling.
Your suggestion could be a new perk or a rework idea for Hangman's Trick. It sounds good. Reminds me of the anniversary ability for killers or of the quick caging in the first 2v8 event. Helpful to save time and can be paired with other Scourge Hook perks.
That was the inspiration. Coupled with associating resonance with "two hooks"
Yeah, could be an interesting change for Hangman's Trick.
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Just like med-kits self-heal allowing for such time-efficiency to be better than a toolbox in nearly all cases where a toolbox was used due to fundamental circumstances of altruistic healing necessitating another survivor (and receiving a deserved nerf), so too does the dying state have a non-insignificant presence of lack of agency due to the fundamental circumstances of recovery pickup necessitating another survivor to pick up a dying survivor that also allows the Killer to capitalize upon to a degree that they can skip hooking entirely.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3834165#Comment_3834165
Be that as it may, I think if you take the killer on a 2 gen chase, which can be as easy as looping shack til pallet drop and 1-2 filler pallet drops, that's a game-losing chase for pretty much anyone bar Nurse/Blight. But it's unfortunate that you rarely see that, even as a really good survivor player, because MMR shoehorns bad teammates into your match. Meaning, the killer can be half-decent at best and still beat you, because it's supposed to be a 4v1, and it was forced into a 2v1. MMR only works well enough so that the highest caliber of killers get put with the highest of survivor teams, which is 90% of the time a loss by default for anyone not Nurse/Blight. That causes killers to quit or switch role, forcing those overpowered survivor teams to go against less and less experienced killers, and makes MMR work that much harder to create solo queue teams which are constructed to fail. I don't think the devs have realized what they've created with that.
Killers not getting a 4k after beating the whole team, I can live with. I'd just hope that after the game's major balance issues get sorted, and especially the MMR, that hatch would be addressed. In a vacuum, it is kind of dumb that the survivors lost, but through luck of the draw, whoever is the last standing has a random insta-escape button spawn on the ground.
You can still camp/trade at least one survivor if a single chase “loses you the whole game”, maintaining an interactive loop before whatever the result of that is. (Though I can’t off the top of my head recall if some anti-tunnel perks need a once-over to deactivate once the exit gate switches are powered, instead of once the EGC starts).
Far as your MMR thing goes, if survivor comments prove anything, it’s that good survivors are mostly placed against high performing Killers from the MMR system anyway, and if that player was skilled enough to be placed against a group of survivors despite not bringing a “high-tier” killer, it’s because the players skill was good enough even with that Killer. (Basing this on complaints of some survivors that they only see Nurses, Blights, etc.) So burnout isn’t too much a concern. (Apart from lobby dodging screwing with queues) -
Survivors by design constraints of the game don’t get to loop the Killer for 5 gens unless the Killer is really, really bad. (Killers are faster than survivors, window block, bloodlust, depletion of chase resources). Nor can they all expect to escape even if they do fairly well.
Killer by design constraints of the game isn’t guaranteed a 4K even if they do exceptionally well.
I think this is a decent balance. (Though I do find the hatch experience itself rather lacking in player interaction).
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To fit the horror trope, IMO.
Ideally the game should make getting sacrificed/killed an entertaining experience such that kill-rates are less of a concern for the majority and only really "problematic" for those that are fixated on "winning".
Though currently there is a bit of a problem where if you're killed/sacrificed early you're booted out of any further gameplay in that match.
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Wait, does it actually prioritize where the Killer is or is that just biased hearsay?
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@ErebusSurge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3832061#Comment_3832061
the problem with the hatch now, which further supports the killer sided argument is, A) you have to wait 10 seconds to appear, B) it will always spawn where the killer is C) moris lower your chance at it
On a technicality Mori's don't "lower the chance" of hatch, at least in terms of game mechanics. Slugging to prevent hatch has already been a thing.
As far as behavioral trends though yeah, people now have not only a competitive (PvP) reason but a visual/flair/aesthetic reason to do so now too. If they really want to get people to slug as hard as possible for that Mori, slap on like 10K BP for the final Mori too and you've got the "builder"/progression demographic vying for it.
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@ErebusSurge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3829887#Comment_3829887
now and then yes.
in its current state if you’re not getting a 4k you’re going something awfully wrong. The worst killer players around can get an easy 4k with the imbalance at the moment. Only way to stand a chance is to try and gen rush.I do miss the days when hatch was a feasible alternate escape route if through killed survivors the survivors were no longer able to compete with the basic pressure the killer could put on generators (so long as they did a decent amount of them).
A more dynamic "catch-up mechanic".
Though I don't miss that it was locked behind a key you needed to bring into the Trial with you, or how sudden it was that the game ended when survivors did encounter hatch with the key
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Is the [changing] portion your suggestion?
So: now I only get 1 &1/2 self-heals from Pharmacy?After spending time opening all three chests on the map, hoping no one navigates to them and having opened them already, and spending time opening chests, then spending time healing myself?
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Yeah, that neuters it for Killers that have sub-par initial chase, which is where such a perk like this should shine/target.
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@Reinami said:
I think fundamentally the entire game needs to be rehauled from an objective point of view.
Basically i would massively nerf, or completely rework every single gen defense perk, and then buff killers basekit gen defense and then make tunneling and camping impossible while punishing survivors for getting hooked (beyond just being eliminated from the game).
So imagine a world where there are no gen defense perks effectively, and instead:
- Basekit regression is 200%
- Basekit gen kick is 10%
- Add a basekit corrupt that lasts 30 seconds
- Add a basekit corrupt on totems that lasts 30 seconds
- There is now a "hook bar" and you must get 8 hooks in order to start killing survivors. Survivors now effectively share the first 2 hook states.
- Remove the anti-face camp mechanic, and rework it so if you hang around the area for more than lets say, 15 seconds, with a 10 second grace period (even if other survivors are nearby) The survivor is automatically teleported to the hook that is closest to the survivor that is furthest from the killer
- This basically means that camping is removed entirely, and the survivor can quickly get unhooked
- Survivors get basekit kindred
- A survivor who is unhooked goes on a 30 second "timeout" where they
- Have no collision
- Make no noise
- Are invisible
- Make no scratch marks
- See the aura of their teammates
- Move at 200% movement speed
- Cannot do any conspicuous actions
- After the timeout is over, they are automatically healed to the healthy state
- This means survivors now just automatically get healed, they literally CANNOT as in, it is literally IMPOSSIBLE to be tunneled. Even if they were tunneled, you can't remove anyone from the game until you hook 8 survivors
- Hooking a survivor makes a noise notification at the location of the survivor that is furthest from the hook, showing the killer where they might want to go next.
- Increase the penalty when working on generators together even further to 20-25% slower for each survivor.
- Generator times probably can get reduced potentially even to like 60-70 seconds at this point, but by how much remains to be seen and this would all have to be tested first.
- Probably also need to add some kind of basekit unbreakable mechanic to prevent full slugging 4 people, perhaps it kicks in if you have 2 survivors on the ground, then they are able to automatically pick themselves up, but if 1 survivor is on the ground and someone comes for say, a flashlight save, you are able to slug them and chase the other person still and force them to find someone to heal them.
- Rework pallets and loops so every single loop and pallet can be mindgameable.
- increase the number of pallets in the map, or make pallets respawn after some amount of time, or survivors can spend time "rebuilding" a pallet or some other mechanic.
Hmm.
So enforcement of the Gen defense playstyle, and specifically through kicking generators, needing movement to them and away from them. Possibly favoring mobility Killers.
Small Corrupt that pushes survivors away from starting gens, good for low mobility Killers initially.
Totem corrupt that at least prevents breakage in the first 30s, but given the Gen corrupt, survivors might be twiddling their thumbs while they walk around and being more likely to stumble across a totem early to keep in mind later.
All survivors share hooks, so there is now no longer a guarantee of getting multiple chases if the meta shifts towards only targeting a few survivors instead of all. But that also means that survivors that want chases can try to keep themselves in the limelight, which could mean that killers counter via some information perks to find the hiding/gen Jockies.
The Penalty zone for survivors acts as a method to prevent tunneling, but also acts as, well, a penalty applied to the unhooked survivor after already suffering the penalty of being inactive on Hook.
While there is a teleport, the Hook is still a point to contest via proxy to force survivors towards it. And otherwise removes it becoming another sub-objective to zone (patrol).
I like the idea of information on a point of interest (in your case of the furthest survivor).
Making every loop a high-loop/mindgame indirectly reduces variance in map appearances and can create samey locations, increase the time it takes to traverse, but does increase the value of information Perks.
Making pallets respawn removes a sense of attrition victory through chase resource attrition. But could add a perk/item/addon(consumable) that takes some opportunity cost.
Interesting. -
@Toystory3Monkey said:
Plot twist but without the ability to do the whole self pick up with full heal and sprintDeerstalker in short range would be nice
Eh, that’s kinda the risk you take just leaving the survivor there.
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@ratcoffee said:
Personally I wish that hooking granted some sort of progression for the killer's win condition, maybe like a flag or a tally on the survivor that got hooked. If I manage to hook the same survivor 3 times, they get killed, similar to how they normally die if I let them bleed on the ground for 4 minutes. Too bad BHVR would never make a mechanic like that 😉
I dunno man. Seems a bit too simplistic. I’d love it if such a tally created a dead zone that the other side will typically no longer frequent, potentially acting as a safer zone, and a place that the other side may not want to be led through as it draws them away from their other objectives that I (we) can then target, potentially meaning that drawing my opponent through such an area might end up with them disengaging.
Of course, maybe I could try to remove an element from the game, reducing the other sides efficiency, changing the back and forth dynamic in that manner. But for some reason the opposing team seems rather dissatisfied if that’s done too quickly.
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@Jacknalls_Paw said:
Killers need everything but further basekit stuffs, all they have is already more than enough.
And if tunneling and camping is severely hindered? Will they have enough?
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/431063/when-are-we-going-to-address-slugging
People complained because "base kit second chance" isn't the answer. At the end of the day, slugged or not, it's your own fault for putting yourself in that position. You're there because YOU screwed up.
A more FAIR solution that doesn't just reward you for messing up is a faster bleed out or give up mechanic after X time being slugged.
Ah yes. The survivors are designed to 5 gen chase argument.
I don’t think that’s the intended gameplay loop.
It’s a slasher game. Survivors are expected to go down now and then.
Even being killed as part of set expectations.
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DBD mobile has something like that right?
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@KatsuhxP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3829729#Comment_3829729
How would this even work, you have a cooldown of I think 8 seconds between them? I don't think that's possible at all xD
shrugs , haven’t played unknown, not sure how high you can fire it/its trajectory/projectile speed.
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@TheArbiter said:
I've never heard of this before
I’ve seen a clip where if two huntress hatchets hit each other, they bug out: lose all movement, and stay spinning in place (indefinitely?) where they collided with one another. Still have damage checks on survivors too.
Maybe this can happen with The Unknowns Projectiles too?
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Whispers, in some form. A method to deal with survivors that hide too much, but not as impactful as aura reading.