Archol123
Archol123
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@ScrantonicityMK said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3263637#Comment_3263637
There are wrong assumptions in your reply. I never claimed to be annoyed by regular killer players getting BP (only the ones that purposefully BM you). Tunneling to win is a valid strategy, which is very different from someone playing for the sole purpose of being toxic.
Not really... I mean I said "if the killer is not playing nice, ..." so I never said it about all killers... I mean... Facecamping someone can also be a valid strategy.. And I mean he can either stare at you or hit you on hook or nod at you... Does this make it any more toxic? Nodding at people can often be fun xD Make wesker accidentally vault a window in an upstairs building... not at him from the window... always hillarious... So I don't think the nodding in itself is toxic... The facecamping is probably the main thing that annoys you but same as tunneling a somewhat strategy...
I mean... the guy is clearly facecamping and not leaving... So he can now either sit there for 2 minutes and do nothing or at least do some stuff to make it more entertaining for himself... He is already not getting as many bp as he would get if he played normally XD So why care about the bonus bp? You really should not care about (even toxic) players getting bp...
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@ScrantonicityMK said:
I think that adding a new offering to the bloodwebs of survivors that grants a 100% bonus to all BP categories for survivors only would be a great idea. It would work like the Bound Envelope, but with a 100% bonus instead of 25%.
It’s extremely frustrating to play offerings like Flan and BP Streamers that benefit everyone only to be BMed and tunneled out because certain killer players get a power trip from constantly hitting and nodding at you on the hook.
How about all bp offerings count for everyone? You mostly don't use flans to give other people bp but because you want them yourselves... Even if the killer is not playing nice why does it bother you that he gets bp? I mean he probably would have gotten more if he just played normally so he is already at a disadvantage... Mate you really should not care about stuff like that...
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3263314#Comment_3263314
So we're agreed that Sadako is one of the best killers in the game? Aight
I think that many people play that weird condemned style which needs some good coordination to counter it effectively... And on the other hand dredge and sadako are no really considered to be that good killers but i guess they're this high up there because they're relatively new and people are not really experience in going against them... Especially since neither of them are that common to go against... But both have map mobility and some form of anti loop which surely helps them a bit... I don't think it shows what the best killers in the game are... obviously ... But it shows what killers perform the best against the average you and me kind of survivor players... And I think even without the condemned playstyle sadako is not as weak as people think.. I mean sure she is probably below average, but some games I saw Hens playing her kind of made me think that the invisibility can be really good... Or the watch addon which Otz used in video... She has some stuff she can do and people probably will get surprised by it... Like I said she is rather new... And just like Dredge most people probably don't know her addons too well... At least I don't and I play survivor fairly regularly and have not encountered more than a handfull of sadakos...
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3263194#Comment_3263194
We both know that kill rates mean nothing bestie
I mean sure... when we consider that people starting to play nurse will probably ruin the stats... but not for the top 5 % at that point both sides should somewhat know what they're doing... And even at that point nurse does not win every game... Which leads me to the conclusion that most nurse players are just not that good... Unless a Nurse ist really really good she can still be looped...
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I think it would be somewhat of a good idea to just have perks work differently for nurse or sth. like that... Would make it better for other killers for which the perks would not be needed to be nerfed. Let's say aura reading perk xy has like 30-50% of the duration on nurse than it has on some other killers... So if a perk is too good on nurse just nerf the perk only when used on nurse...
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@Grigerbest said:
Imagine playing fair as a M1 killer against survivors with 4 BNP, which camping and predroping every single pallet on a Eyrie of crows?
If common stuff like that bothers you so much maybe just don't play for a while... I took a break of like half a year last year and when I came back I really did not care about stuff like that... Every single time I get cowshed as a killer I just laugh and am amazed if somebody manages to go down aganist an M1 Killer... And to be honest I haven't really had a match with 4 bnps... Besides you wouldn't necessarily know that beforehand...
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
I just had match where they had 3 toolboxes and 2 of them had brand new part in it. No wonder why 4 gens were done in like 5 minutes. I had to start camping and tunneling on the last gen left and I got 2 kills in the end. If I keep playing "fair and nice" I bet I got nothing. 0 kills, less BP. Not worth it.
I mean sure you could have played nice and maybe not got much out of it... But then again some people don't really care about BP or kills and just enjoy the chases... I mean after several thousand hours of playing you basically have anything you need so bp aren't worth anything anymore... So what is there to get out of a match where you just stand close to the hook and get bored... But you do you mate.
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@Seraphor said:
Garden of Joy, Eyrie of Crows, Ormond, Thompson House, Temple of Purgation, Ironworks of Misery, Crotus Prenn, are all basically the same map. They have a different skin, some different features, and a few alterations here and there. But they're all basically a multi story main building more or less in the middle, a ring of loopable tiles around the edge, and a deadzone right out the front of the main building, with a shack in the corner.
If one map is so much worse than the others, it's only minor details that are making it worse. An odd window or pallet placement that's too weak or too strong, tiles slightly too close together, hitbox issues (twigs with 3 meter bubbles around them!), ground that's too light to hide traps on, etc.
So:
- It wouldn't take much to balance the maps so that they're all equally fair.
- The imbalance is overblown, and most people overreact to the maps they get. No map is so imbalanced that one side doesn't have a chance. Some you just need to learn to play to their strengths and avoid their weaknesses. Just as you would avoid chasing the Meg who's following you clicking her flashlight, you avoid chasing survivors to the god pallet, etc.
How can you possibly compare the main building of thompson house or even temple of purgation with the nightmare that is garden of joy or crotus prenn... Thompson house is so easy to loop in and garden of joy is a main building you can basically never loop in with so many good windows in there...
And to your 2nd point of no map is so imbalanced you cannot get a hit there... Play an M1 killer on cowshed dude... If you somehow manage to win there then the survivors massively messed up... That map basically has no deadzones so it does not really matter where you chase people...
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@Lost_Boy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3262427#Comment_3262427
I use weird builds all the time and enjoy experimenting actually. I answering you back about learning the maps, like it was just a lack of knowledge in my behalf of not knowing where to go. I gave my reasons on both maps being unfair due to bad design through too many pallets or lack of hooks where you physically can't reach one even before any add-ons or perks are abused.
I also don't really understand how Midwich could ever be killersided considering it is basically the hold w map where you can just run around the main corridor for ages if you spot the killer early enough... And with the access problems of the map with up and donstairs... Besides the point where it is possible to just have no hook in range or hooks being blocked by smaller objects... so you cannot hook anyone there.
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Yes indeed... probably no one out there that didn't get f*ed over by auto aim... And the whole thing just for asthetical reasons xD
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I have to admit I find the other offerings mostly just as useless... But I wouldn't mind it were less over all ... Especially the killer one that makes survivors spawn spread out XD Basically auto loose offering... Great stuff here ^^
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3261574#Comment_3261574
I just gave it a watch. It makes sense considering what I've experienced lately on killer and in my SWF group. Some killers struggle to 1k us and other killers actually make us work or 4k us. Huge skill variance from game to game.
Yeah so in the end mmr didn't really change much about how the matchmaking works ^^
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/354378/most-hated-maps-as-killer
Good luck with that if they bring Reassurance. It can be activated from directly above and below the hooked survivor. In the end, you might find it more productive to just learn the maps and bring Darkness Revealed if it's very frustrating for you. Most of the bottom of the Game and most of the entire Midwich map is near a locker.
There is nothing to learn about badly designed maps xD What are you gonna learn about a map wit 25 safe pallets? :D There is no weak place where you can lead the chase to xD I don't get this argument :D I mean yeah sure when you get lost on map learning the layout can help... But when a map has no weak area because it is just loaded with safe tiles what are you gonna do besides kick 10 pallets and hope the game is not over yet so you maybe can bring survivors in the deadzone you just created...
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3261553#Comment_3261553
Oh, I thought you linked a different video of his that he made a while ago when MMR first dropped. I've had him muted on every platform for a while so I didn't realize he put out another video recently. My b.
Hahahaha xD Ok man ^^ No it was another one, and like I said he only reported on someone else who got in contact with dataminers and Scott just says what the other guy got to know from the dataminers... So the core information is in the video in the description of scott's video... Since it basically runs muted in the background of scotts video it does not really matter too much which one you watch :D
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3261451#Comment_3261451
There's a lot of misinformation in Scott's video. I'd caution against taking it as the gospel. MMR losses and gains aren't static. They're relative to your opponent MMR. If someone wanted to risk a permaban, they could check their MMR and see numbers that end in 7s and 3s. Immediately renders half of that video incorrect. The dataminers used dummy accounts that all had the same MMR as each other, hence why they thought the gains were static.
I just rewatched the video... And Scott never said anything about how much you gain or loose per kill or escape and if it was static or not... But yeah I would assume it is not static, because otherwise the never loosing cheater bot would not struggle to reach 3k mmr but be up in 100.000 ++ mmr if it only plays enough matches... So if you have a source for the thing you just said i'd be happy to know more... But otherwise I don't see how what you stated is more reliable than what Scott states in your video...
Especially the dummy account thing... I mean they apparently figured out the mmr of other players that were not datamining so I don't really get that part ... When they just played normal matches with those accounts and figured out all the stuff written in the boxes in the top right corner in the original video... How would the gains be static? I mean they apparently didn't just play those accounts against each other all the time soooo.... Further elaboration needed buddy...
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3261451#Comment_3261451
There's a lot of misinformation in Scott's video. I'd caution against taking it as the gospel. MMR losses and gains aren't static. They're relative to your opponent MMR. If someone wanted to risk a permaban, they could check their MMR and see numbers that end in 7s and 3s. Immediately renders half of that video incorrect. The dataminers used dummy accounts that all had the same MMR as each other, hence why they thought the gains were static.
Dataminers can also check other peoples mmr as far as I know? And yeah sure the gains are not static but I don't recall him saying that? Especially considering he said that even cheater bots that win every game don't go beyond 3k mmr... So I don't really know what exactly you even mean...
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@Cyber_Atlas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/354378/most-hated-maps-as-killer
Don't hate on maps. Learn them. There are a lot of maps in the game. You will have better luck on the next one :)
Not all maps are redeamable, some are just bad design wise... Why would you not hate such a map? Also what exactly is there to learn about cowshed or the game? Liteally everywhere on the map are safe tiles...
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3261493#Comment_3261493
Why would you want to get to 1600?
MMR isn't a reward, it's not a trophy. It's merely a corrective mechanism to stop you winning too much.
But it apparently does not work as the range of mmr in which you get matched with other people is waaaaay too big
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@Seraphor said:
Play Dredge, Doctor, Ghostface, Myers or Nurse then.
Gideon and Midwich will become your favourite maps.
It's all swings and roundabouts.
I play 4 of those and still will never like those terrible maps...
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RPD and Lerys are on top... I'll just go protect the basement chest everytime when those maps come up, no matter the killer... I just cannot be asked to play them...
Eyrie of Crows, the Game, Midwich, Haddonfield, Garden of Joy are all terrible as well, but most of the you can at least try to have chases... The problem with getting places is the same on the game and midwich as in the two aboved mentioned maps... So they're all pretty bad as well...
Dead Dawg is just boring because everyone will just run to the main building and then you have to let them leave because otherwise you will throw the match just to get that one person...
Special mention goes to cowshed... The map is so busted it is hillarious again... I always laugh when people manage to go down on that map when I'm playing an M1 killer... Because there is no way that should happen... You need to be really bad at the game to ever go down against an M1 Killer von cowshed... Prove me wrong xD
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHEkN-oDLrk@Okonar_ said:
I have a few questions about MMR, I'm not sure if bhvr shared these numbers yet:
- Whats the base start MMR?
- Whats the soft cap? (I'm assuming this is the top 5% we saw in the recent kill rates, is it?)
- How much MMR a survivor get for escaping and how much he loses for dying?
- How much MMR a killer get for 4king and how much for which survivor escaping?
That answers your questions I guess.. That's what dataminers found out about it... You can also watch the video linked in this videos description.
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Ok... I've seen it a lot especially when the blinding survivor is some distance away..
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It is just about the angle I think, so crouching sometimes helps, but that didn't really change so...
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What just came to my mind was we could give the Survivor a visual indication where the blink would land when the nurse started it (Just a little warp thing or sth. like that where gravitation is reverse or so with those black little things floating in the air, visiually I think it would look great, but gameplaywise it probably won't do much)... But that would not really do much as her blink takes only 1.5 seconds at max range without addons... And if we added it just to see where she would theoretically blink that could be rather deceiving as good nurses will often flick their blink at last second so the survivor does not know where they will go... But it could be something to think about, even if it won't do that much I guess...
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@Lastchild said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3260958#Comment_3260958
Outside the line of sight for counterplay, if the argument you insist on is:
- "The killer will become boring to face."
So all the killers have to be redone (if we have to take into account each personal opinion of a survivor who finds this or that killer boring)
Personally when I play survivor, I find it boring to face the cannibal but I still play against him.
And when I play cannibal I understand why his power hasn't been changed again.
Which means that I haven't yet found a viable idea for the cannibal to be comfortable as a killer and against survivors.
To continue, I told you that if boredom is taken as an argument, all killers are to be thrown in the trash and DBD is closed because bot killers will be too easy for survivors to avoid.
Now even though you've become personally comfortable with the nurse, other players haven't, so I'm suggesting that the nurse only have one Blink and a Speed of 4.4 m/s in compensation.
Currently no one likes the nurse as she currently does.
By nobody, I'm talking about the majority of players who are killers and survivors, I took into account the opinions of both parties that's why I proposed this project.
Objectively the idea I presented still seems viable to me and if we adjust the 3 blink times we can make it comfortable for all players whether they are survivors or killers.
What makes the nurse too strong is precisely the fact that she has 2 blinks, that she ignores walls and these very short cooldowns.
In compensation, you have to bring something so that the killer player can continue to play it during the game.
The point of boring to face is based on the fact that you cannot do anything about getting hit... the cannibal can be countered by windows and pallets just like most killers, sometimes you have to predrop them but they still give you some time to get to a new tile, with a nurse that can just blink over those things and otherwise just run after you normally that does not work like that... Also there is the matchbox addon that makes nurse 4.2 m/s and reduces blinks by one... and nobody uses it because it is garbage...
I don't think every killer is boring to go against, but I think every killer should have something unique about them gameplay wise... For some that is just not really the case when they basically do the same... Chase normally use short- medium range power during animation lock get hit... And I think that makes the game somewhat boring when you do the same thing against many killers...
The Nurse already has the brown addon to get used to her power... And besides that there will soon be bots where players can train certain things on killer... I for example will probably learn some blight flicks or billy curves with the bots... So people can use this to learn the Nurse as well if they are not comfortable against people... I basically practised nurse without flanel and just lost like 50 games in a row on her until I got an idea of how long I need to press the blink to go to a certain place and so on... I don't think 4.4 m/s should be the solution instead of giving players bots so they can learn it without feeling dominated by players in matchmaking... especially since it completely changes what you do against Nurse... I don't know about the majority... As far as I saw it most people just don't want to get one shot by her and think her addons are a bit too strong... But basekit nurse is fine...
Ignoring walls opens up a whole different set of counterplay... I don't think her power itself is too op I think it is something we can work with... Most Nurses are not that good so they cannot be looped... Therefore her basekit is fine... Unless you face a god Nurse, but let's be honest here there are so few and they probably mostly don't play her as they find her boring or only play scrims with their comp team... So the guys you face during normal matchmaking can usually be looped... Nurse is one of my favorite killers to go against as I see my ability to play her translate into knowing how to play against her which iss great...
Her power is strong yes, but you can loop her by breaking line of sight and using unique pathing... so there is some player interaction... With your idea you don't have that impact on the duration of the chase anymore... Just like legion she would eventually hit you... And I find that terrible game design... It is like setting a timer and no matter what you do you will go down after a specific amount of time that has nothing to do with your person skill or anything... And what is even worse she becomes boring to play as because she does not have a skill ceiling anymore... shortrange blinks over small object pallets or windows will be all she would be used for and that's just terrible... You would not even need to learn the precise distance anymore and account for the distance the survivor can make during your blink as you probably would never more then 10 m and hitting that is not too hard...
So... to not just stomp on your idea without presenting something that somewhat adresses the issues you presented:
- To adress her rather high skill floor the brown addon becomes a function that you can turn on or of so you can decide every game if you want it shown or not... Because some people including me, that already know how long to charge blink get majorly irritated by that thing on the screen, so I'd rather not have it... Besides that you can play versus bots in the near future.
- I disagree on the blinking through walls part beeing too strong... What I think makes her too strong is that her power works with exposed... And some addons being too strong... Cutting chase time in half by only needing to hit one blink attack is rough... So I agree that it should not work with her blinks anymore... But nobody really cares about the other perks like jolt and sloppy... I'd rather have the nurse run this than some really strong stuff... So I would like to keep those perks working on her... If we just make those also apply on special attacks or whatever does not really matter to me...
- The addons might be a bit too strong... Only range and recharge I think... What you basically do against nurse is loose line of sight and then make distance... As I presented further up Nurse basically moves slightly faster than 4.2 m/s with her blink on average therefore she takes quite a lot of time to catch up to the survivors... Range as well as recharge help with that a lot... Especially range as she can basically blink in her entire terror radius with range addons... So how about we delete one range addon and make it something else... And make the other one 5 m and or change the rarity of this one... We could also keep both, tune the numbers down and make it so they don't stack. Recharge is somewhat fine I think so how about we turn the 13% addon into 10% and the other one from 20% to 15 %... We could even make it so they don't stack... But I would rather keep it so because otherwise people will just only run range recharge combined... Because what else are you gonna run... Most of her addons are terrible anyway... So you cannot really blame people on that one...
With these changes Nurse will be a bit more beginner friendly without loosing her skill ceiling... Her chase will basically always require two hits therefore not being able to cute down the chase time massively with exposed... Her counterplay with loosing line of sight remains as we did not touch her movementspeed while walking... And her addons get tuned down a little bit so she becomes less opressive...
I get that some people still find her opressive but maybe they just need to learn the proper counterplay... There are way too little god nurses that cannot be juked at all... Her counterplay is not even that hard:
- Loose line of sight and try to take pathing she will not expect, maybe even double back
- Look at the duration she charged her blink, you can see it is charged to the max when her fist is clenched... You basically know how far she will blink so you can try to run into her again to make her overblink, this works especially well on maps with two floors as she will not be able to look on the floor to cut her blink short without blinking downstairs
- Her blink works in a way that when you look on a wall in a 90 degree angle you will need really little charge to go through, but when the angle gets sharper you need more charge to go through, use this to your advantage ... This works on some junktiles or rockloops especially well...
- Try to avoid windows or pallets... Animation lock is your mortal enemy...
- Try walking sometimes and hiding behind objects after you broke line of sight, Self-Aware is really helpfull for this... When I started playing Nurse I played against a friend of mine who is a really experienced survivor... she did that all the time and I simply had no idea where she went...
- Edgemap can really help you, the tiles there are all high and good line of sight blockers
- Try to identify her addons early on so you know how far she can blink, recharge cannot really be identified that good unless she starts blinking directly after fatigue but range especially double range can be identified fairly easy...
- Don't heal in her terror radius... Nurses calling is quite fun on her to use because even without addons if you don't run away she can blink on top of you if you're inside her terror radius...
- You should expect all kinds of aura reading perks on her... Or gameslowdown... So try to figure out her perks (that goes for every killer basically but why not add it here as well)
- If you get a map with a main building or something like that: Bedham Houses, Eyrie of Crows, Asylum and so on try leading the chase there... The collision of objects inside can really mess with nurse especially when she does not know for sure what is on the other sie of a wall she may blink too short ...
- If you can avoid it don't drop (unless you have balanced landing i guess) Survivors drop slower than killers therefore you are basically locked on spot for a while which makes you a perfect target for a blink attack...
- There are some blink deadzones where she just cannot blink through, I think the outside of the map is one of them ... I don't know exactly where others could be but by keeping that in mind you might be able to make her miss a blink while on edgemap...
During chase you can figure out what works and does not work... If the nurse reacts appropriately to one of those things maybe don't try it again... Don't run into her when you saw that she has good control over her blink distance and so on...
Hope this helps, but this should not really be something new for experienced players so...
I generally think the game should have some killers with a high skill ceiling, sure nurse is not on top there is still billy, blight and probably huntress but I don't really think we should butcher her just because she can be super strong... I mean how many god curve billys, god huntresses and so on do we encounter? Most players we will face against in matchmaking are just not that good so you could do nothing against them...
Having something that is not easy to master is a good form of longterm motivation to keep playing a character and removing that from nurse would be a sad thing... I'm fine with making her a weaker, not her basekit though as I think that is fine... And I also don't want her to get the billy treatment... So maybe we can agree on something less harsh that keeps her roughly the same but worse... I however still think that she should keep her nr.1 place as best killer... Because no matter how rough it is to go against her... It is not as rough as MDR spirit or Blight with his insta pallet breaking addons and alc ring and so on... So I do think Nurse is the lesser evil...
(I myself don't really care about Nurses addon strength as I play her mostly without addons... But I also don't think her addons should be like Freddys where all his addons are just entirely useless... So maybe something in the middle... Decent/good addons but not opressive... Maybe even adjust rarity....)
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@Lastchild said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3260659#Comment_3260659
You do not play killer, and even less the nurse to understand the interest of a Nurse in 4.4 m/s who is not forced to systematically use her power to obtain a hit.
This is why I realize that your reaction is disproportionate and too close to the point of view of the survivors.
Your opinion doesn't count.
I was wrong to pay attention to you.
I play mostly killer and played Nurse for like 3 months at the beginning of the year until I got semi decent on her... I play her mostly without addons... What you don't understand for whatever reason is that the nurse only has some form of counterplay because she is slower than the survivor... Because she has to use her blink to gain distance... For some reason you want to nerf nurse by removing her counterplay... The nerf is obviously in the interest of survivors so the main goal is to make her less opressive but keep the counterplay... Your idea only makes her somewhat less opressive, but completely removes her counterplay... Because when she does not has to blink to catch up and is even faster than when she blinks by just walking she just becomes boring...
You did not once elaborate why this change would make it better for the survivors... Besides the point of no basic attack perks, which could be used without turning her 4.4 m/s... You don't decide which opinions count or do not count especially when you yourself don't even understand or want to understand the basic problem you bring to nurse by turning her 4.4 m/s...
Nurse is the most unique killer in the game, the only killer that relies on line of sight to that amount, that can be countered just by running in a different direction than she expects you... And you want to turn her the same thing as many other killers already are... Medium range anti loop with basically no much counterplay: Line of sight doesn't work anymore because she can just follow and windows and pallets dont help because she can blink... And she cannot even blink long distances because she does not have the 2nd blink to correct which is why she would only ever blink short where she can guarantee a hit as this would be the most optimal thing to do...Congrats dude...
I play both sides and have an interest in making a killer fun to play and play against... Both people should have an option to outplay the other one and with your idea that's just no longer the case... Nurse does not need to predict where the survivor went because she can just follow to catch up without blinking and the survivor must just hold w because no tile in the game protects him... I don't see this as an improvement gameplay wise...
I was at least trying to show you the flaws in your argument/idea but for some reason you just kept stating that it was the ideal thing to do without even trying adress my arguments... But if that does nothing anyway then I can just keep it shorter... Your idea is terrible man, and if you cannot understand why that is you might want to think about it again, because it is pretty clear...
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@Okonar_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3260664#Comment_3260664
Yeah I meant when you get injured through the alarm clock immunity
How about you just say remove alarm clock immunity XD Because otherwise your phrasing is really weird... What exactly does the immunity do besides protect you from falling asleep :D:D
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@Okonar_ said:
My feedback to make Freddy's snares a bit more consistent:
- While in a chase, survivors fall in dream 100% faster;
- After being injured or downed by The Nightmare, the survivor will instantly fall in dream.
Thats it, short one :)
You already fall asleep when you get hit? Unless you have the 30 second buffer that was added after you use a clock... and falling asleep when getting downed also happens doesn't it? You just wake up when you get hooked... So what you want is just to remove the 30second you have after using a clock?
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There is a brown addon for her which makes it easier to play her for starters... And i find it somewhat ok to get decent results with the addon... But I agree it takes some time to get used to her without it... If you nerf her blink by increasing fatigue and blink recharge... Why would you ever use the blink outside of chase to get a hit?? As I told you before With 4.4m/s base movementspeed she is already faster than by using her blink... So there is no reason to use the blink for map traversal anymore... Unless you want to up or down from a building or lower and upper floor...
The whole idea of you nerfing nurse is to make her more accessable to play against... So how can you tell me now I should consider the killer players? Your plan makes her boring to play as and against... Therefore the idea is just not good... A killer that just loops normally and uses their power at windows or pallets is nothing new or special... There is like 5-10 of this sort... So why do you want to turn the nurse into one as well? She is one of the very few killers with unique play and counterplay... I would really like to keep that uniqueness in a game where many killers have the same counterplay: Predropping, holding w or just reaching a high wall to hide behind...
And no we don't just stick with that terrible idea you presented...
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@Lastchild said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3260438#Comment_3260438
There is no objectively more viable idea than this.
You have to see the whole thing and all that it entails.
Firstly a killer at 4.4 m/s is comfortable walking.
So the probability that a nurse in 4.4 m/s faces more than M1 and less than M2 + M1 will increase.
This will increase the joy of the survivors who will face a Nurse, because they will see less Nurse using their power to hunt, but more to move.
After nothing prevents the player from when to use his power to hunt.
But the interest will be much less present.
Then you did not take into account:
- Maximum blink load: 1
- Blink attack is a special attack.
The Nurse will never be able to use her power to apply effects like Startruck, NOED, Sloppy butcher etc... She will have to walk.
I wonder why such important information did not "alert" you.
You don't realize this is the best option because any other idea is just to prevent killer players from playing Nurse, see remove it as no longer of interest.
You need to see the 3 points as a whole, not separately.
I did see those... But then again... it does not change that she will be boring to go against... She follows you normally, as she is faster walking than blinking and then takes her safe hit when you are locked in animation, which offers 0 counterplay... How is this more enjoyable then trying to make her blink wrong?
This option is just not viable, and stating it is is just plain wrong... My goal is keeping her unique counterplay as I just don't want another killer that has a low- medium range anti loop power... There are enough of them... Nemesis, Pyramid Head and so on... You would basically turn her in one of those...
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What I would do without changing too much is either make her 2nd blink a special attack... If it has to be reeeeeally simple... Otherwise since the problem are exposed perks on nurse make it so sloppy butcher and jolt apply on special attacks and make both her blinks special attacks so nurse can never use exposed perks... But this way her counterplay stays without turning her a boring version... And maybe tune down some of her addons...
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It removes the entire break line of sight counterplay thing from nurse, which I myself find very fun to do...
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@Lastchild said:
You two are going away for nothing, here's the only thing for the Nurse to do :
- The base movement speed increases to 4.4 m/s (instead of 3.85 m/s.)
- Maximum blink : 1 (instead of 2)
- Blink attack is a special attack.
It's not more complicated than that.
No need to make mountains for the Nurse.
This idea is currently the most viable and simple to implement.
That sounds terribly boring man... It's basically the same thing I critized about the first idea... Nurse chases normally and takes her safe hit when you vault a pallet or window or drop a pallet... Really not much of a fan...
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"I do think that in small quantities her power is fine, but having it exist unfiltered is too powerful for a vast majority of players going against even a decent Nurse player."
I like this sentence, you basically say most people don't know how to play against a somewhat good nurse... How is that the Nurse players or Nurse as a character's fault though?
Manipulation Mode seems not worth it, as it wastes waaaaay too much of your power just to kick a gen you could have kicked by just walking there in like 10 seconds...
I would also like to say that the passive regeneration is a joke... 1 point in 15 seconds? Oni has 100 charges, but his passive is 3 in 15 seconds and is still considered so low that it can be ignored... Additionally with the way your system works the passive regeneration will only ever be relevant when you have 10 charges or 20 or so charges gained... because unlike oni you cannot just follow injured people to gain more orbs... to gain 10 charges it takes 150 seconds, thats over 2 minutes... And that is the first point where it becomes relevant.
But to come to the main feature... Does the blink mode only consume time while you are charging your blink or blinking? Because if not and it starts consuming the charges the instant you are able to blink then this would mean you could with the full power only blink 3-4 times...
2 seconds to fully charge the blink, 1.5 seconds of travelling time and then 2 seconds of fatigue if you did not attack(but then you have 1.5 seconds of chain blink window) and 3 if you did...So we have like 7 or 6.5 (+the time it takes to complete the attack) seconds of power used for a single blink. The most she can hold is 26 seconds of power usage... so thats 4 blinks at most... and only if you start the next blink right after fatigue... And that's her full power... for which she has to hit or down several survivors... wow
I think this would only result in Nurse basically chasing you normally, then activating her power as soon as you dropped a pallet or vaulted a window, hit you and deactivate it again... and this is the only way it would be used... Because basekit nurse takes quit a lot of time to catch up normally...
For that let's look at a full blink cycle without addons:
2 seconds of holding the blink while going 2.89m/s ; 1.5 seconds of travelling 13.33 m/s ; 1.5 seconds of chain blink window 1.54m/s 2 seconds of fatigue 0.96m/s and then 1 second of normal movementspeed so 3.85m/s (to recharge her blink)... The whole process takes 8 seconds and you travel a distance of 33.86 meters... Which makes it 4.2325 m/s on average... This is slower than the base movementspeed in her non floating mode...
With the result of the power being used in small charges to only take guaranteed hits and otherwise chasing normally Nurse would basically become somewhat like legion... At some point she will just hit you and there is just no counterplay... Breaking line of sight does not work anymore as the time in blink mode is so short she will only ever chase you normally and then get the safe hit... I mean yeah sure she is weaker now... But even more miserable to go against ... Because now there is just nothing you can do anymore...
Now to the addons:
Since manipulate mode seems weak i will just assume those addons will be basically worthless anyway... Why would you ever waste that much of your precious power just to kick a gen?
The blink movementspeed reduction addons seems horrible... The slowdown is massive... your blink normally transports you at 13.33 m/s with this addon it will be 8.6645m/s but add 4 m to the max distance... So instead of 1.5 seconds of travelling time you will now take almost 3 seconds (roughly 2.77)... During this time the survivor can run almost 12 m away from the position you aimed your blink at... Now that I'm thinking about it this might actually make holding w the ultimate weapon... I'm not doing the math for it now... But this might actually make you slower then the survivor over all xD
I don't know man I don't think any of the addons are that usefull... the gen exploding one seems funny, but I'dont know if it would actually do something depending on if the survivors get a warning or so... And if they don't it just seems really unfair when the nurse just injures them from like 30 m away...
For the basic idea to work you would need to make it so the Nurse has her power longer (at least 90-120 seconds, maybe even permanent let's say you need to hit 3 different survivors once or get for 4-5 hits on survivors and then you just get to keep your power... ( not really happy with that one either, but still better than 26 seconds of power...), have somewhat of a long animation in between switching modes... (at least 2-3 seconds each), so she she can't just instantly activate it and hit you... And then probably even buff her basekit power in some way to counter the hold w thing... as I said before, basekit nurse really does not have that much mobility compared to 115% m/s killers...
I kind of like the idea of her using her telekinetic powers but I would rather have it be like a nemesis whip kind of thing... Where she can charge a blast that will hit a breakable wall or a dropped pallet on a short range... let's say 6-8 m at max... And take up one blink charge and give her a smaller fatigue or so... Because if she would go in full fatigue it just wouldn't be worth it to ever use that thing efficiency wise...
Maybe even add a damaging part... When you run into it... And make it visible the way she is holding her fist... Right now she holds her fist clenched with the fingers facing towards her, so let's make it the other way around for the range attack... Give it a chargetime of 1-2 seconds and this could be really fun... It would not really be a buff for chase, as it is probably still the safer way to just blink on top of the person and hit them instead of this whole thing... But I do like the idea of doing something with her telekinetic powers...
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@katoptris said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3256432#Comment_3256432
I actually got stuck in a locker as the nurse.
Or in between a locker and a wall or something... Happened to me as well... At that point I wasn't even mad, it was just hillarious xD
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@Orochi said:
Cuz Nurse just gonna Nurse. But, you know, "Nurse is fine"
Mostly yes, she is fine... Some addons might be a bit too strong, but basekit nurse is fine...
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I think it is so you cannot just hold your teleport and wait for the unhook to immediatly be back but before it being out of 32 m range so for example Make your choice can activate... But then again Hag with one of her addons can do that as well... Should probably change the abilitiy to trap a hooked survivor...
As for Nurse she would need both blinks to get the 32 m range to trigger Make your choice... Also her blinks are her travelling tools... Being unable to blink to some spot would enable safe zones around the hook... and also a guaranteed camp when the survivor just stays under hook and does not leave...
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It was so annoying to hear that everytime and I hope it stays gone for good... If they bring it back there should at least be an option to deactivate it...
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You can use it at long walls, or the TL wall, some longer pallet loops and some more... And of course if you know how to curve yes... Otherwise Billy is backrev only... I don't think you necessarily need bamboozle, but it helps... The really good Billys don't run bamboozle all the time so i guess...
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When the chase music came on the ptb people did dc against ghostface many content creators made videos about it making them feel dizzy, I myself found it just really annoying... It was physically painful for some people so I'm quite certain people would dc against that...
Not having a red stain in chase is a really good thing dude... You underestimate how much the red stain help in chase...
Sure man but since it is a brown one I don't really mind... His best addons are his browns so you can basically run them every game... Which is good enough for me...
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The revealing mechanic is way to inconsistent for it to be removed after 1 second of not looking at him...
Who would ever want back the old chase music? People complained so much about it that it had to get changed... Why waste an addon on that? Do you want to make people dc when they hear it? xD
The green and yellow ones seem way too strong... When you mark someone they cannot reveal you and when everyone else also cannot reveal you that does not seem fair to be honest... It does not necessarily make Ghostface sttronger, just more unfair in my opinion...
Crouch speed increase is fine I guess... and the 6 seconds decrease to his ability cooldown is basically already in an addon... that is a brown one... So I think it can stay as it is...
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3254883#Comment_3254883
Discussing killers and their powers is on topic. If we were talking about cars or boats or what the killers looked like in bathing suits then we would be off topic.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3254882#Comment_3254882
-"What you're basically saying is because people don't understand what they're supposed to do they just go down in no time because the blight knows what to do... Therefore I don't really get what the issue is"
This is entirely why Nurse is strong. Most people don't play nurse and they try to run her as if she were another killer that played by the limits of walls and pallets. They dont know the limits of her power so they just get caught like a deer in headlights.
But when you compare Billy and LF as they are now you will see a huge reversal in how lethal they are compared to how they used to be.
Billy has no antiloop and LF has antiloop when you use his best addons. If we go back and look at "instant saw" Billy it makes a lot of sense compared to what LF has right now. At the time LF was a terrible mess. Now Billy is a terrible mess. It's almost like Billy is free and is therefore garbage and LF is the "pay to win" model. The funny thing here is that DLC characters especially licensed ones were originally advertised as "pay to lose".
Billy has some antiloop, but i can be used on less tiles than bubbas and is way harder to pull off...
But what was the whole point of the argument with legion compared to blight then? I mean when you admit people die against killers that know what they're doing, while the survivors themselves have no idea what to do against the killer... What is this comparisson supposed to mean then?
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And also this thread is supposed to be about Billy and Bubba and not Blight or other stuff, so we should keep it on the topic..
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3254771#Comment_3254771
I think you might need to re read my response. Legion gets the first hit automatically and then what? Blight gets both hits quite often nearly automatically. This happens because of hug tech. Blight was very easy to play against before Hug Tech was discovered. On release he was very fun to play against because it was a very easy win against almost every Blight you went against.
Blight requires the killer to know how the survivor wants to run the loop optimally. This takes time but becomes "automatic" once you play killer for a while. As a survivor you need to know how the blight wants to run the tile knowing how he thinks you want to run the tile. And then to make the game difficult you need to run the tile in a different way than he expects. In order to do that you need to either understand blight very well or have a completely thorough understanding of survivor mechanics.
Most people lack one or both levels of understanding and just go down quickly against Blight.
But that seems kind of fair to me dude... What you're basically saying is because people don't understand what they're supposed to do they just go down in no time because the blight knows what to do... Therefore I don't really get what the issue is... Generally speaking when a survivor does not know what he is doing he will go down quickly, even against an m1 killer... And considering Legion... With some addons you're able chain 4 hits and get a down rather easily... Did it a few weeks back and it basically worked every game because once again... People usually don't really know what the optimal thing to do is and therefore go down...
And to say a killer is fun to go against because he is easy to win against is really a meaningless thing to say... The fun part about the game is the chase interaction in the sense of knowing what the other one is able to and react appropriately to what you either see him doing or assume he is going to do... So still basekit blight is one of the most balanced killers in the entire game when it comes to that... There is almost always something you could have done better against blight...
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3252667#Comment_3252667
-"Blight receives almost no downside for using his power and gets tons of reward for it."
You are absolutely correct. I do not want to paint the picture that Billy is good but I do not want to short the one thing he does better than anyone else. If you go back in time to a 2016-2018 build you can actually make incredible saw sprints where you end up with 2000-3000 points from a saw sprint or more. That was a very scary time to play survivor when Billys like me could traverse the map multiple times and check all the generators without ever getting out of a sprint.
To be blunt Blight moves too fast and has his power back too quickly. Compare him to legion for example : ok Legion uses his power and gets the first hit pretty much automatically. Blight gets both hits pretty much automatically. And then he hooks the survivor and then travels at warp speed to the far corner of the map. That is wrong.
This sets up a problem where this killer works great and everyone lower in power quite frankly just sucks. Do you want to spend an extra 20 seconds every time to you want to start a chase? If not then pick blight.
The comparison of legion and blight lacks... Besides Stunning him which you basically shouldn't do there is not much you can do to prevent legion hitting you... Blight on the other hand has to work with flicks and bump logic to get his hits... Basekit Blight is probably one of the fairest killers in the game...
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@itsquiet27 said:
Make the trap trigger zone smaller so that survivors can't exploit the perfect distance to trigger them forcing you to miss your basic attack. Also rework her add ons
But that's literally the only thing a survivor can do to interact with the traps? How else are you supposed to get rid of them... Also if you just brainlessly swing everytime after teleporting and miss you might wanna step it up and just don't swing every time? Seems like a skill issue there...
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How is Bubba supposed to be worse than trapper dude XD You cannot be serious :D:D
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@Aceislife said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3250094#Comment_3250094
Billy can gain distance much better, and can also curve around objects. Also, Billys saw is better for baiting out pallets. (Faking the rev)
Bubba does not really need to bait the pallet... Because either people drop it or you just down them before they reach it again if you're playing it correctly... Sure Billy has map mobility but his curving cannot be used at all tiles while bubba just moves around with increased movementspeed in basically every loop...
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@fake said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3250423#Comment_3250423
I apologize for my lack of words.
Blink attack: refers to swinging after blinking.
One of my thoughts is that the recharge if this hits the survivor should start after the dizzy ends.
If the swing fails to hit the survivor, the recharge can be started while dizzy as before.
Also, if you did not swing, a quick recharge is fine as well.
In my opinion, it would be good to differentiate between the three in terms of the speed of the recharge.
Blink no swing>blink swing no hit>blink swing hit.
This is a bit contradictory, but it increases the penalty for a blink attack hit.
I am sorry if there are parts I don't understand as I am using automatic translation while speaking.
It's fine... In that case depending on how much it could be somewhat reasonable... But I really would not want to overdo it...
@Shroompy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3250427#Comment_3250427
I mean we can use the map which is normally used during comp games for Nurse, Coal Tower. Watch a few comp games and very rarely will you see a Survivor just run in a straight line for 30-40 seconds.
Like I can see where you're coming from, on paper it seems as if she wouldn't gain as much distance. But in reality its far from the case.
Comp games really do not fit when we talk about basekit Nurse, with addons, as already admitted she has far less problems getting distance... I agree however that coal tower is a great map, however it is also a very small map.. And I don't think we need to rebalance Nurse for a comp setting, as she is probably quite balanced for that matter... (With certain restrictions to addons... But then again survivor perks and addons also get restricted most of the time as far as I know..)
According to the wiki it is even the smallest or second smallest map in the game... Midwich is smaller by quite a lot...
The Realms are semi-procedural locations within the World of The Entity.Each Realm was the site of a violent tragedy in the past and they now serve as the Arenas for The Entity's trials. The location of the Trial is chosen by The Entity.Players can influence The Entity's choice by burning certain Offerings. Trial locations have certain fixed landmarks, but elements such as Player starting locations, Generators, Chests Lockers, Totems and Exit Gates are placed to The Entity's whims.Even the terraI admit you cannot run for 30 seconds to reach the other side of the map, as it is really small... However there can still be scenarios when going edgemap where you will make a lot of distance and addonless Nurse will take some time to catch up... And I find it to be an overall very fair and balanced map... Even against Nurse, many high structures and the main main building make loosing line of sight quite possible...
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@Shroompy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3250411#Comment_3250411
and you seem to overestimate the amount of spaces that actually have a long corridor with 0 obstacles in the way that a Survivor would have to run around, that a Nurse would simply blink over
Also if you're catching up to a Survivor, you're doing 1 blink which gains you 20m, not both. Not only does this reduce the fatigue time but also gives you a 2nd blink for once you do catch up. So instead of roughly 32m every 6 or so seconds, its 20 meters every 3 seconds. This isn't even counting recharge add ons which make this go even faster
I don't think I overestimate it... give me one map and we check out if there is not at least a few corridors in it where you can just straight up hold w...
The math I did was for only one blink I think... If I'm incorrect please point it out more precise.... And yes I didn't do the math with addons, which I also stated that I did it only for basekit.. Since I did it basically to show how fast she gains distance to reach a position from where she can blink and hit the survivor...