Archol123
Archol123
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@zarr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3711126#Comment_3711126
But the last survivor having a chance to escape is not an issue, is it? The killer has already won. As you said, you don't even care whether they escape. And sure, you personally may not enjoy the hunt for hatch, but others may, as either role. That there is a last moment of tension, the excitement of still having a chance to end the match without dying.
But again, it is of course a fair opinion to say that since the match is basically hopeless in terms of getting gens done, you may as well end it there and then, either by giving up the survivors (killing them automatically or revealing their position) or by giving them an option to give up. I think having more gameplay in these scenarios is preferable, but again, I would not be opposed to a concede option, and suggested being able to surrender when in the dying state. I would just want there to be something in place ensuring survivors won't just still try to hide as much as they can instead of giving up.
The last survivor escaping does not bother me because it is mostly luck... Luck where the hatch spawns luck how close together the gates spawn, what killer I play and so on... If I have barely an impact on that how can it bother me? Ofc it would mean more if it was under my control just like the rest of the match... Basically the reason why people count 3 KS for the win streak because the 4th guy is mostly out of your control.
Survivors can play the hiding game in any state of theatch, be it beginning or end, sure it might be more annoying when you as the killer basically already won, but if we accept it as legitimate gameplay/strategy then I don't see a reason to get rid of it at that point specifically. However... Since it is a reportable offense if you don't progress the game within 15 min as survivor, basically holding it hostage... How about permanent aura reading regardless of perks at that point... They are already committing a reportable offense... So why not make it easier on the killer to deal with that and report them afterwards... I mean it should be somewhat possible to automatically detect that...
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@zarr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3711083#Comment_3711083
So you want to just give them the hope to win by giving them the buff so they continue playing? But why would they in the first place
Because there is more of a hope that they can actually get gens done and perhaps even outs.
If there is only 1 guy left, but also several gens then this person is supposed to lose
If that guy were supposed to die, hatch wouldn't exist. That guy having more of a chance to escape (or any chance at all, as opposed to how it can be currently in some situations) is not an issue particularly if you don't care whether one person gets an escape.
This problem you are mentioning already exists right now...
Which is why I'm making the suggestions I am making…
Obviously it is way simpler to just press a button instead of relying on the killer to get you out, which is why that option is such a good idea...
Yes, again, a concede option in these situations could be one idea to deal with tedious, hopeless endgame scenarios. Although again, since it is optional, survivors might still opt to just hide indefinitely, which is what I don't want. I would prefer if they simply died on the spot if no gen is getting done for 60 seconds or whatever in a 2v1. And I would prefer over that if they had more of a chance to actually still make something happen.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3711103#Comment_3711103
I don't see how that info is useless, but you do you. I also didn't say these buffs are equivalent or supposed to be, the aim was to give the remaining survivors more of a fighting chance, such that they actually fight.
Just because you haven't seen killers stand on hatch and refuse to close it doesn't mean it isn't a thing. A survivor finishing a gen is giving away their position. It will often be trivial to find them if they do.
Do you actually have a problem with the idea that hatch would close automatically after some time, by the way?
You are not always supposed to have a chance, at some point you just need to admit defeat... When 75% of your team died you should not have a realistic chance to still win the game. And hatch is a stupid mechanic exactly for that reason to begin with, not only does it turn teammates against each other in hopes to get hatch it also makes them less productive towards the real goal of getting the gens done...
Which is why I am saying hatch is a stupid mechanic and should not exist... It is a remnant of the past where 4 men key escapes and stuff alike were still possible, just terrible game mechanics that should have gotten rid of years ago.
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@zarr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3710890#Comment_3710890
The difference is that the match is already lost here and cannot be won anymore no matter the buffs, this is just about the remaining player(s) having more engaging of a time playing the game out. Well, at most they could achieve a draw, but again, even that is incredibly unlikely just because they repair gens faster - if the killer finds one of them the 3k is all but guaranteed, and with the killer instinct, they will find them. Think of the repair buff as compensation for the fact that the killer gets location info on the survivors, if you will. The "basekit Unbreak" thing is not relevant for the "win" in the sense that the killer can just choose to take the 3k and thereby win if they so desire instead of slugging, nullifying this mechanic (although again, a "surrender on ground"/instant Mori" mechanic is an alternative too).
Another significant difference to Starcraft is that there's multiple players here, and just because 2 or 3 died, doesn't mean the remaining player is a building waiting to be destroyed. Playing for an individual escape in a 2v1/1v1 can still yield engaging and exciting gameplay for both roles, there's no need to just end it. It could also be pointed to the fact that it's a different type of game, a survival horror where having a sole survivor even in an overall loss is part of the appeal (besides, the game is not strictly a team game, let alone one with concretely defined, team-based win conditions; a player may not consider a match "won" or "lost" just because their teammates did not escape).
Either way, giving the players the option to concede leads to the precise problem I considered these changes due to to begin with: then the remaining survivor(s) will regularly just hide, either hoping to still somehow make it even without the existence of hatch (and be it by boring the killer into going AFK or disconnecting or whatever), or simply to not give the killer the satisfaction. After all, there currently already exists the option to "concede", in the form of just running into the killer and letting them kill you. But sure, it is possible that without the danger of the killer refusing to kill you, slugging for minutes on end and potentially delaying your death indefinitely by picking you up, survivors in these scenarios would more often simply "concede", if it takes them out of the match instantly.
I would not strictly be opposed to a surrender option in these scenarios, such as the "call upon the Entity to end it" thing when in the dying state in 2v1/1v1s. I just think there are better ways to have endgames conclude, but that's a matter of opinion.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3710966#Comment_3710966
Not the fairest of tl;drs. For one thing, these buffs apply in 2v1 and 1v1 endgames, so they won't allow the overall result to be changed into a survivor side win. For another, there are 2 survivor buffs here and 1 killer buff (killer instinct), and one of the survivor buffs is only relevant if the killer wants to slug for the 4k instead of taking the 3k (while still having the opportunity to get the 4k thereafter).
At least the "hatch closes automatically after some time" change is simply a no-brainer, hatch stand-offs should not exist, it's a design flaw.
So you want to just give them the hope to win by giving them the buff so they continue playing? But why would they in the first place xD For most people at that point, unless there is like 1-2 gens left the game is already over and they probably only half heartily try to not get reported by their teammates or something like that. The game does not become more engaging at all, it is still the same old... You are still not supposed to win anymore.
If there is only 1 guy left, but also several gens then this person is supposed to lose, as the last survivor you still get 2 additional chances on hatch or doors after it got closed, but the killer is supposed to be favored and at that point the survivor cannot win anymore, it is a draw at. Est if he gets out, at least that's what the mmr system makes of it. And as killer or survivor I never feel like it is a win to get the hatch or leave through the gates after it got closed... Like I said if they want to play let them, but I find the race for hatch incredibly boring, which is why I tend to just go afk when there is only 1 guy left... Only coming back when he for some reason did not find hatch within the next few minutes. Other people might still want to get that guy which is fine.
This problem you are mentioning already exists right now... And if they indeed do nothing for a longer amount of time they are just holding the game hostage, which is reportable and otherwise they are just playing stealthy, which, as much as I personally despise that playstyle, as something you can do, so there is no issue here either?
Obviously it is way simpler to just press a button instead of relying on the killer to get you out, which is why that option is such a good idea...
I don't think concede should only be available in that niche scenario, I think it would be better to have it available after a specific amount of match time in addition to the match being heavily in favor of the other side... How to define that is up for debate.
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@tubalcane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3708422#Comment_3708422
"but the killer still has lot of regression"?
So basically it's the killer's fault you didnt close the deal? Why does the killer get penalized all the time when the survivor can't make a win happen?"Tunneling!" - Basekit TS
"Camping!" - Basekit Anti-Camp
"Not fair that a killer in insta-grab me at the hook!" - Got rid of that mechanic!
"It's not fair that a game last too long!" - This is the killer's fault, punish them instead of punishing the survivor who jets within seconds of barely seeing the killer on the other side of the screen.
Post above.
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It's not really his fault in that sense.... I just don't think that that is the type of gameplay we would want... As we already had those really long games...
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3708422#Comment_3708422
It's literally impossible to make it hour long slug with regression limits, even with stronger regression perks
- I said half an hour
- This was more like if we add more game delay stuff it might end up around that time which is not too unrealistic...
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@zarr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3710758#Comment_3710758
I think that would just make the game even more boring. Again, my primary concern here is not that the killer is all but guaranteed to win out in the 2v1 and 1v1 scenarios, it's that because he is, the survivors will stealth around indefinitely because there is nothing to play for. And the ways in which the killer can play around these scenarios yield even less compelling gameplay. There being more hope in these scenarios encourages survivors to actually play, and creates more engaging and exciting gameplay for both sides.
Again, sure, they could just automatically kill the last remaining survivor(s) in these nigh hopeless scenarios, but I for one would not welcome such a "gameplay" design.
Imagine any other game for example an rts where you would give the losing side a buff to make it more interesting... That would be ridiculous.
By giving a concede option and removing hatch they could just take the loss and move on without needing to play around for nothing...
I don't think more is needed if you think you lost you concede, just like in Starcraft for example, nobody waits till the last building is destroyed but for some reason that's a thing here and it is just super boring.
It would be quite a bad idea to just kill the last two guys, if they want to play let them, but if not let them concede and move on, really nobody is benefiting from playing those matches out, so why even bother.
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@zarr said:
Endgame scenarios where only 1 or 2 survivors remain have often been criticized for the undesirable gameplay they can yield.
With only two survivors left alive and generators left to be done, the match is regularly a foregone conclusion, as either of the survivors being found will usually lead to their death, only seldom with a chance to delay the down until the other survivor can repair the remaining gens (and death for the found survivor still being all but certain even then). This creates a situation in which the two remaining survivors will often try their all not to be found, so as to potentially at least have a chance for a hatch escape. The killer can also opt to "slug for the 4k" in this scenario, meaning they will just leave the survivor they downed lying on the floor to search for the other survivor, for up to 4 minutes (after which they can still pick up and carry the slugged survivor or let them wiggle, to indefinitely delay their bleedout). Both of these scenarios really aren't very engaging, neither the survivors hiding as much as they can nor the killer dragging out the conclusion of the match by leaving someone to crawl around on the floor or otherwise refusing to kill them.
With only one survivor left alive, multiple issues present themselves. The hatch is easier for the killer to find as they are faster than the survivor and don't have to be cautious about being spotted like the survivor does. And then if they find the hatch, they can simply refuse to close it. This creates a very unfortunate situation known as a "hatch stand-off", something BHVR set out to fix years ago but the "solution" to which fell short. The killer in this scenario can opt to not close the hatch in order not to risk giving the survivor a chance to open a gate or escape via key. Instead, they will simply stand there until the survivor reveals themselves, upon which they can then close the hatch and chase the survivor, with the latter having no chance of escaping anymore. The survivor, knowing this, will obviously refuse to show themselves. This can go on until the game server closes the session (at which point the survivor dies, suggesting the killer has "won", which is another if tangential issue with the "endgame design"). But even if the killer does close the hatch, escape is often nigh or actually impossible, with gates that can spawn too close to one another, spots from which the killer can see both gates, killer abilities that can be used to scout or control gates from a distance. In these hopeless scenarios, survivors will often just keep hiding out the endgame timer so as to not give the killer the satisfaction of killing them "by hand", again leading to a boring, uninteractive, anticlimactic conclusion to a match.
I think the endgame design of DbD should have long been looked at, to create tense instead of tedious, hard-fought instead of foregone conclusions to matches. The "finisher mori" system was meant to address some of these issues, although it for various reasons didn't quite work out and was scrapped. But that shouldn't deter you from reconsidering on these scenarios. Here are a few relatively simple ideas I have, that seem pretty easy to implement for the most part and would already go a long way to alleviate many of these issues:
In 2v1 scenarios, give survivors a 100% increase in generator repair speeds (they repair twice as fast), as well as the ability to recover from the dying state. The match here is already all but won for the killer: if they find a survivor, they are almost guaranteed to secure at least 3 kills for the match. So giving survivors buffs in this otherwise regularly hopeless scenario isn't all that relevant for overall balance, but it would somewhat consistently give them an actual shot at trying to pull off the impossible and get gens done and perhaps even escape through the gates, if much of the time only for one of them. They would be much more likely to actually try instead of just hide. Plus, in turn, you could then give the killer periodic information on the survivors' locations whenever they are not on a gen (e. g. a killer instinct proc every 30 seconds, counting whenever a survivor is not currently repairing a gen).
If the "recovering from the dying state" change would be considered to be too balance-relevant (in the sense that the killer already worked to create this 2v1-with-gens-remaining scenario to begin with, and so maybe there shouldn't be a buff to the chances for both survivors to still be able to make it out), an alternative could be to instead give them the ability to "surrender" when in the dying state, where, bereft of hope to feed off of, the Entity will swallow up the survivor. Or yet, make it so that the killer will instantly mori a survivor they down, in this scenario. I don't really think this is necessary, as the "basekit Unbreakable in 2v1" will already most of the time lead the killer to just pick up and hook the survivor they downed, but these would at least guarantee the 3k/win for the killer.
In either case, these then trigger the 1v1 endgame scenario. Simple improvements for this scenario could be the following:
The hatch should close automatically after a minute or two. This is such a simple, obvious change that would 1. make it so the survivor does not necessarily have to search for the hatch (a hunt that as mentioned is skewed against them), and 2. get rid of the hatch stand-off that still exists now.
Gates should spawn further apart. Not necessarily as far as they physically can, but with a certain minimum distance of each other. New maps like Nostromo and Toba Landing already have a few fixed gate spawns that generally guarantee that the gates are not only not too close, but also don't allow the killer to see both gates from one spot or a small patrol area.
Since this is not as possible on all maps, additionally the red lights on the gate switches could be changed to activate later into the gate opening interaction. Currently, the first red light activates at 25% of the gate-opening progress, which is a very early giveaway for the killer as to which gate a survivor is attempting to open. Moving the red light activation sequence from 25, 50 and 75% to 50, 75 and 95% would be preferable.
Killer-specific changes to prevent them from being able to use their powers within a certain range of unopened gates could be beneficial, although I don't think this is absolutely necessary as this aspect of their powers can just be seen as interesting parts of their kits. However, to present a more ambitious and adventurous endgame design change that would do away with all of these issues:
As soon as the hatch is closed (manually or automatically), put the killer and last survivor into a 1v1 chase scenario. The killer will have no power and move at 4.6m/s speed, the survivor will be healthy. All perks, add-ons and items are disabled. Any pallets and walls that have been dropped or broken stay that way. The chase could either start at a designated spot on each map or at the killer's or survivor's current position when the hatch was closed, or the nearest pallet to them (if any). The distance between the killer and survivor could be something like 10-15m. If the survivor can last, say, 2 minutes, the hatch spawns at their feet and they automatically jump to their escape. If the killer downs them, they instantly mori them.
The idea here is that the players get a thrilling chase to conclude the match, and the harder the killer had to work to get into this scenario, the easier it will be for them to win (since more pallets will have been used throughout the match). Specifics of this "sudden death chase" system such as the place where the chase starts, the starting distance between the players, the time they have to keep surviving for, whether this time could perhaps scale with the amount of pallets left, and so on, would all come down to testing and debating, but I for one would celebrate the introduction of this.
Whether it's any of these or other changes, I hope the devs will some day reconsider on the endgame design again.
I think the best thing would just be to get a concede mechanic under certain conditions for both sides, so for example only survivors alive or x minutes in the game and only x hooks for killer or so... And in addition just remove hatch altogether, the whole slugging for the 4k stuff and so on is just super boring but required for some stuff and when one side does not reach their goal that is completely fine and there is no reason to give them a bonus to make up for that, as that will always be viewed as a punishment for the other side to be doing well.
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Surely you don't mean the amount of cosmetics pe character right? Other than that I have no clue...
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@k3ijus said:
nurse is annoying to play as and against, when im playing against no matter how good i loop her fatigue does nothing when she can teleport map wide and when i play her its so frustrating with her speed
Instead, from now on the nurse will have 2 blinks as normal, but instead of her fatigue state after a hit or without; the nurse will be sent back to her original location before she blinked.
Because this switches nurse to a more informative killer, getting a successful hit could reward with aura or killer instinct of who you hit. This could be base or addons
some buffs with this change would be
-exponentially increase range of 1st blink (rewards long range hits, healthy for BOTH sides, adds actual skill)
-return speed to 110% or 115%
-MAYBE add 3 blinks
Some nerfs
-increase time to replenish blinks(gives survivors a chance to get away after successful blink)
As of fatigue, im not sure if it would be beneficial to remove or include, but this was all just a possible solution nothing more
this way nurse players have skill scaling and survivors have a fair counter as distance would force nurses to anticipate the survivors movement
Congrats you just made Nurse an even better 3 Gen killer, removed her line of sight blocking counter play in chase and dumbed her down by making it so she does not fully rely on blinks for hits because she is 110/115% now as well....
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@SleepyH said:
So in the new shop i noticed that under every characters name theres a level. On survivors every character seems to be level 1 except my main whos level 21. On killers the levels seem to be random. What does it mean? It does'nt show bloodweb level, how much i've played the character or anything else i can think of. Is it just random numbers? If so why is it there?
Do you mean the prestige?
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@SiekoValantin said:
PC / Game stops actually loading while on loading screen and crashes several minutes later/ Unreproducible
Over 25 times now has the game frozen and eventually crashed on 'Loading' screens at various points, if it didn't crash while Initializing Shaders.
I will launch the game and Initializing Shaders takes forever. If it doesn't crash while initializing Shaders, it freezes on a loading screen. Be it the loading screen before main menu, the loading into lobby screen, the loading into game screen, or the loading out of end game review screen. On any random loading screen, the game will suddenly stop actually loading. My friends will then tell me I disconnected from the lobby, and the loading screen with stay frozen for up to 8 minutes before it registers that the game has crashed and asks me to send a crash report, if I don't stop the game through steam. It never says the game isn't responding.I have a similar issue where it crashes my graphics drivers... But I don't really know what to do about it, have had this issue for years now and it only happens with dbd, no other game.
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@Manslaughter said:
Eey yall, I'm an oni main and even though I'm still sorta new to dbd I wanna get as many pointers as possible. Any tips? Like what builds, how to use power, when to leave chase, I'll take any tips I can get yall. And to those who do respond, thanks a bunch.
There are some nice guides, Scott Jund made a good one, it is quite old, so don't rely on the builds but the rest is Allright, otherwise check out Hens or KNightlight or so, they are quite good with oni.
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@MSX_exe said:
I have the daily to hit 5 survivors with a fully charged Demogorgon shred and despite me trying my hardest and holding the shred for ages next to a survivor like a weirdo, I only got 3/5. This is the worst daily in the game
Around 1 second... You can use shred after I think 0.65 seconds, but around 1 second should be fully charged with max range.
Yeah the daily sucks, when playing normally you tend to more often than not only use a quick shred and not a max range one.
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@Toxicboii said:
Just gonna be quick here:
Do you think Hex totems should spawn the closest to the killer at the start of the match?
No, it should be random. Otherwise survs know quite well where to go... Also incentives territorial play even more if they would.
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@duygu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3709885#Comment_3709885
people already feel justified and it wouldnt be the first time they removed content. the current state of RPD is arguably more harmful than worth having simply because its licensed. a raccoon city street map would've been far better for DBD gameplay, not long unplayable corridors
Fully agree... Indoor maps just limit the majority of killers and also limit base functions of the game like tracking from a distance or crows, they just don't work as well as outdoor maps for those and many other reasons.
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I mean it is still decent but nobody runs it... But I have to say except when playing Spirit I never thought of Iron Will as problematic... They could fully revert it to 100% and no exhaustion and it would not be a big issue.
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@board24jason123 said:
The amount of stress when I play killer is insane because i main sadako and I run into every pallet spending too much time breaking pallets and looping survivors when I should check on gens and get hooks. They should nerf the amount of pallets and big loops where it’s impossible to even catch up.
They should rework both of them, because they are still terrible to play on.
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@ReMixeurOfficiel said:
I just wanted a single overdrive Add-on, in case someone is really bothered with that.
I agree a bit with the sound add-on, but there is still the Terror Radius to warn you. You would surprise the first survivor, but then they sould be more careful. Should it be 30m ? 50% ?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3708920#Comment_3708920
Even 30 m is quite little time to react, but better I think..
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707843#Comment_3707843
The counter play to Twins is not holding them hostage, that's just bad design. Their counter play is grouping and healing. Grouped so that every Victor down gets him kicked and the survivor picked up before she returns and healing so that they never have the chance to chain slug, which is the only way they can win. With the respawn time of Victor increased after being kicked you objectively have time to heal or pick up before she gets back unless Charlotte sent out Victor when she was literally already nearly on top of you, which is very rarely the case. This is without taking a single healing perk or medkit into count, we're talking literal base kit here, and rarely do I ever see a match without at least some healing perk or multiple medkits. Any healing perks or medkits makes this significantly easier. Then there's also the counter play of locker jumping, which is most of the time effective as she is rarely close enough to get there before you break out. This also ends her chain slugging and forces a pick up even if she does reach you in time. That is their counter play. While their bugs have always been annoying, it was not their main issue, it was taking Victor hostage that was. The "clunky" is Victor being taken hostage, as well as the 5 second stun on every successful down. Those two things are why people found them unfun to play.
The Victor early recall is confirmed a bug. So we're talking 30 seconds held hostage, then a 10 second recharge, then whatever travel time from Charlotte with Victor. That's 40 seconds on every single healthy injure where you are an m1 with no ability…that is extreme unhealthy design. How many minutes per match is that of having no power? A lot.
Well we will see if it works out like that in practiser, but I doubt it...
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@ReMixeurOfficiel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3708498#Comment_3708498
So here they are !
Common :
4-Stroke Engine (Instead of Dad's Boots to bring back Drift Billy) : Switching the old 2-stroke engine for this new model greatly reduces the heat produced and allows a more uniform use, at the cost of a slower regime.
- You no longer gain Overdrive
- Increases the Turn speed during the Chainsaw Sprint by +30%
Counterweight (This one helps beginners so I think it is good, just need to be tuned up) : Adds weight to the base, for stability
- Reduces initial Turn rate of the Chainsaw during a Chainsaw Sprint by -70%
- Extends the duration of the initial Turn rate of the Chainsaw during a Chainsaw Sprint by +100%
(This one is supersonic853's idea)
Cracked Primer Bulb : A button that clears air from the fuel lines. This machine needs to be fed.
- You are in Overdrive at all times
- Survivors hit with the Chainsaw are only damaged for a single Health State
Discarded Air FIlter (I have kept ONE of all this trash Add-ons, being a buff old Ragged Engine one, and decreased rarity to Common,) : A cracked and dusty filter. It still manages to work better than the stock model.
- Reduces the Dissipation speed of the Overdrive Meter when not using the Chainsaw by -35%
Uncommon :
Clogged Intake (switched with Off-Brand Motor Oil for logic reasons : airflow clogged = more heat) : Modifying the airflow is key to modifying the Chainsaw's power.
- Increases the Charge rate of the Overdrive Meter by +15%
Low Kickback Chains (I reworked this one because it was repetitive and I so decreased rarity) : A specialised chain that reduces the likelyhood of kickback.
- Reduces the Obstruction Zone Scale factor by -20%
Spiked Boots (unchanged) : Boots with strapped-on pieces of metal which burrow into mud for more stability and control with each step.
- Increases the Turn speed during the Chainsaw Sprint by +45%
Steel Toe Boots (as there is only one Add-on now, I've buffed it a little and increased rarity) : Boots with a reinforced toe that offer protection from impact.
- Reduces the Cool-down time after hitting an obstacle during a CHainsaw Sprint by +10%
Thermal Casing (switched with Clogged Intake for logical reasons : conserves energy = longer heat) : A thicker case that allows the user to control the conservation of energy.
- Extends the duration fo Overdrive by +15%
Rare :
Begrimed Chains (some slowdown, it's ok, not great not bad) : A foul yet oddly familiar chain, coated with something unpleasant.
- Survivors hit with the Chainsaw suffer from the Haemorrhage and Mangled Status Effect for 70 seconds
Medicamental Cocktail (I really liked old Billy's Add-ons meds and grease, but they were really niche, so I tried to make them a bit less situational. This is replacing Greased Throttle that I find useless) : Different Evelyn's meds that you shouldn't take all at once.
- Each time you get stunned by any way, this Add-on get 1 token
- Each time you get blinded by any way, this Add-on get 1 token
- For each token, increases the Chaisaw charge speed by +8%
- This Add-on can get a maximal of 5 tokens at a time
- The number of token is resetted 40 seconds after the first token is earned
Off-Brand Motor Oil (nice original idea but too weak to be useful, so I've buffed it to -60%, giving a 24m noise radius, allowing to catch Survivors offguard, and so I've updated rarity. Also, I'm sorry but in the dscription you say that it's for NOISY chains, why does it increases Overdrive charge rate ?) : Affordable oil that can be used to lubricate noisy chains.
- Reduces the Chainsaw Noise range by -60%
Ragged Engine (switched with old leaves because they were so fun. I miss them. Also some would say it needs a tune-up because it stops making noise but actually it is because it's tuned-up you see) : Some would say it needs a tune-up. Max would say it is tuned-up.
- After hitting a Survivor with the Chainsaw, grants Undetectable for 20 seconds
The Thompsons' Mix (unchanged. This is really not good but I can understand why it is there, so I let it for now ʘ.ʘ I will still remove the Overdrive condition) : A special oily substance used in the lubrication of all machinery concocted by the Thompsons themselves.
- Reduces the Cool-down time after using the Chainsaw by -10%
Very Rare :
Apex Muffler (really fun. Unchanged) : A masterfully crafted chainsaw muffler that outperforms all others.
- Silences the Chainsaw for all Survivors outside of the Terror Radius.
Filthy Slippers (good with previous Add-on so unchanged) : Maw sometimes struggled to hear his mother's footfalls.
- Gain the Undetectable Status Effect until you stop sprinting after maintaining a Chainsaw Sprint for at least 2 seconds
High-Speed Idler Screw (come on. It brings more power to the Chainsaw. Do something with that instead of another Overdrive decay Add-on. So I've made it bringing more power to the Chainsaw, breaking Pallets and Breakable Walls faster, but as it can be a bit overpowered, I've given it a downside. I'm not sure if this state is balanced, I would really know your opinions on it) : A loosened screw will bring more power to the Chainsaw.
- Reduces the Cool-down time after breaking a Breakable Wall or a Pallet with the Chainsaw by -25%
- Increases the Cool-down time after hitting an obsatcle during a Chainsaw Sprint by +15%
LoPro Chains (if I touch that, I'll be burnt alive by all Billy mains, and I would be the one cracking the match. U. N. C. H. A. N. G. E. D. Except for the downside description a bit strange, telling you that if you break a Pallet or a Breakable Wall and that you hit a Survivor again within 5 seconds it will still only deal a single Health State, so I've updated that) : Light chains that decreases the weight of the Chainsaw, allowing for greater manouvrability.
- Allows you to continue the Chainsaw Sprint after breaking a Pallet or a Breakable Wall with the Chainsaw
- Survivors hit with the Chainsaw within 5 seconds of breaking a Pallet or a Breakable Wall in the same Chainsaw Sprint are only damaged for a single Health State
Ultra Rare :
Iridescent Engravings (excellent for Curve Billy. Unchanged) : Engravings found on the Chainsaw body representing the dark beast that lives in The Fog. Fills the user with determination.
- Increases your Movement Sprint during a Chainsaw Sprint by +20%
- Increases the Charge time of the Chainsaw by +12%
Tuned Carburettor (yeah I mean, good, not bringing back Cracked Billy without downside. I can see that. Unchanged) Despite being caked is dirt and oil, this carburettor has been well adjusted.
- Increases the Charge Speed of the Chainsaw by +20%
- Reduces your Movement speed to 4.4 metres per second
I would still change the heat addons, because I think they are quite useless. I don't know about the chainsaw sound addon, because 24m is quite small considering his immense movement speed.
Other than that I think the changes are nice.
Maybe lopro needs changing now.. Because Billy is good enough even without it now :D
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@ReMixeurOfficiel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707880#Comment_3707880
If you ask me, I would rework a lot of Billy’s Add-on, they are really repetitive and for the most part useless (especially Overheat Add-ons). Moreover, by learning Chainsaw’s IRL functionning, it seems to me that a lot of the Add-ons are not really coherent… I think its meme Add-on should be reworked aswell. But I feel that having 3 different Turning Add-ons would be too much, and as you only use Dad’s Boots for Drift Billy, everyone would use 4-Stroke Engine and Dad’s Boots would become useless. And also I don’t know if we could say that it would a meme Add-on. Turning Add-ons are already memes in a way, or at least mostly useless. If you really want to, I have a list of all Add-ons I would like to see modified :)
Sure list them ^^ Worst thing I can say is that I disagree :D But honestly every idea is better than the overheat addons we have currently ^^
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@tubalcane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707782#Comment_3707782
"Delay the game"
Why does this matter? Every match doesn't need to be a frantic genrush or kill frenzy.
Sure, but it also does not need to be a half an hour slug where there are no resources on the map anymore, but the killer still has lots of regression... We already had that type of gameplay with ruin undying in it's first version..
Game length currently and the amount that the good regression perks delay the game are alright as they are... Sure more viable options would be great but I don't think the good ones need further buffs.
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@BlackRose89 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707945#Comment_3707945
I mean Twin has always been strong. Sure they feel a little better now thanks to a faster swapping but that still doesn't change the fact that half of the killer is super boring and unfun to play. You can have a killer who is s tier but if they are not fun to play a lot of ppl will not play them outside the ones who only care about winning and that's it. As you said I have no idea how they could make Charlotte more fun to play but that is not really my job, that's the job of the devs to figure that out. My job is to say what I don't like about the killer and give my feedback. That's what Im doing, Im not even saying keep the recall since I know that makes them a little too strong but I do want the devs to know that no one likes their power being held hostage by survivors for long periods of time. Twins aren't the only killer with this issue as well. Singu has a similar issue where he is super strong but thanks to EMPs it feels like he has no power most of the time and is reduced to being a m1 killer.
Quite a lot stronger now. And since a significant amount of players optimise the fun out of everything I would also assume a lot of them will now play twins quite a bit more. By playstyle alone we can assume that, people proxy camp instead of taking chases because it tends ensure a kill more likely than taking chases and so on.
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@BlackRose89 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707765#Comment_3707765
Honestly, I'm done talking about Hens, at the end of the day I don't like the guy or his content and I do think he doesn't care about average players. That end of that.
I don't care if it is or isn't a top priority right now. Im just giving the devs my feedback about why I hate twins. The main problem when playing them is the fact Charlotte is the borest part of the killer and you are forced to play her for 30 seconds every time you injure someone and they hold onto Victor. Im not alone in this thought either since I have seen plenty of ppl who are saying the same thing where they don't like the feeling of their power being held hostage by the survivors. This why I think Twin will never have a higher than 1% on average for pick rate. I am willing to bet after a few months their numbers will be back at 1%(I imagine their pick rate is above 1% right now bc of the update but that will fall back down after the next chapter). Another part of them I hate is the slugging part bc I hate slugging as killer. I rarely do it on any other killer, I rather get my hook than just leave someone on the ground. As I said I know twin is strong but that doesn't change the fact they boring as hell to play since most of the time you are forced to play a m1 killer and you have to slug a lot. The QoL changes did not change that esp since the 10s recall is a bug and isn't considered as part of those changes.
I guess the pick rate will jump up quite a bit when they realise how strong the twins currently are... But I agree that the twins don't really follow the promised concept of two parts working together, it is more like the gremlin taking everyone out and Charlotte playing garbage woman and picking them up. But then again I don't really know how to make that into a thing...
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@ReMixeurOfficiel said:
Hi there !
I was someone who really enjoyed play Drift Billy, a playstyle of Billy where you equipped both turning Add-ons, and by doing so, the turning rate was so high (56°/s) that you could circle around the map, trying to down a Survivor this way. This was really fun, because Survivors had to be careful but it wasn't preventing them to do Generators.
This was allowed with Overheat, because even when the Overheat meter was full, the Overheat would only proke when you let the Chainsaw, so as you were holding the Chainsaw Sprint until you down someone, the Overheat wasn't a problem, dispersing during the Hooking time.
However, with the new Overdrive update, I feel that it's not possible anymore. When you enter Overdrive, you're so fast that it's really hard to Drift. It's not impossible, especially on some specific maps, but you won't be able to reach every Generator. Keep in mind that Drift Billy was already really difficult with 10.12 m/s, and that you had to have quick reaction time, to understand where to go. Now with 13 m/s, this is almost impossible, because in the one hand, you must have quicker reaction time, and in the other hand, you have a restrinct turning rate with faster speed, not that Overdrive reduces your turning rate but for the same distance, as you go faster, you have less time to turn.
Moreover, Overdrive happens after only 9 seconds of Chainsaw Sprint (0.5 second of Rev Buffer Time, 2 seconds of Reving = 4 Charges, 8 seconds of Chainsaw Sprint = 16 Charges, 1 second of Transition Time) and will last for 20 seconds, so even if you try you would only Drift for 9 seconds before waiting twice this time to start again. That's not what Drift Billy tasted like. This is really useful for mobility, but this is not the fun playstyle that I was used to.
So instead of Dad's Boots, one of the Add-ons required for Hillbilly, I would sugger that :
4-Stroke Engine :
Switching the old 2-stroke engine for this new model greatly reduces the heat produced and allows a more uniform use, at the cost of a slower regime.
- You no longer gain Overdrive ;
- Increases the Turn speed during the Chainsaw Sprint by +30%.
You have to know that I have spent hours learning Chainsaw's functionning to suggest something coherent. I think that removing Overdrive wouldn't be too hard to code, and as it is an Add-on, those who like Overdrive could still not run this Add-on and continue with it.
What would you think about that ?
Maybe instead of the 2nd meme addon he has? Would be a shame to have 2 meme addons 4-6 useless heat addons and 5-7 that are usable...
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@adsads123123123123 said:
They should keep being able to recall Victor when bound. Victor being held hostage was the largest problem with Twins.
The largest problem with twins was how clunky and buggy they are... The largest problem against twins is that the only real counterplay is holding Victor hostage, because otherwise twins will injure and down people faster than they can heal.
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The game crashed so hard my whole pc shut down after turning into a jet engine for a few seconds and it destroyed my graphics drivers so I had to re install it... Before that happening I also experienced the screen tearing.
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@Triglav said:
Hello Devs,
Now that we have the feature that blocks a gen from being kicked after 8 regression events, there either needs to be buffs for existing anti-gen perks or new perks that cause significant gen regression. Gone are the days of hour long matches and strong slow regression. Now though, we have matches where it swings wildly to it being over quickly in some scenarios because the momentum stays in the survivor's favor for a good portion of the trial.
Pain resonance shouldn't be the only perk that causes loss of progression by a large amount with only 4 tokens.
Pop goes the weasel loses value now as a trial goes on because once the gen gets blocked off it doesn't matter if I get my hook I can't use it anymore and 30% of CURRENT progress is not worth it still unless somehow we can stop progression when its near completion. This is rare.
Eruption has very little impact with its 10% loss with these changes because survivors will just focus the gen anyways after the loss making the time gained negligible. It is also not a huge advantage seeing a survivor for 12 seconds across the map when I am a killer that has basic mobility and all I see them doing for those 12 seconds is repair the generator I just damaged. Gearhead already gives us aura reading, Eruption having this is redundant and should be changed to something else.
Surge is hit or miss since it relies so much on positioning and can be strong on certain killers such as Deathslinger due to him being able to bring a survivor back into range of generator with his power. Overall, I don't think it would hurt though to make it do more damage because eventually it will do nothing to the gen anyways.
This is to add to my previous post on Oppression and I trust in you folks at BHVR plus feedback to make exciting and valuable changes to the game!
As always a hand clasp from across the miles,
Triglav
Nah dude, we really don't need more Gen regression... If you delay the game by that much that the 8 regression events are reached then you cannot really blame the perks anymore...
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@Vindictus said:
That killer needs to be kill switched, her hatchets are broken, she is able to even hit you as you are behind an object because the hitbox goes through it. Her hatchets hit you without being anywhere near it. Why are you busy nerfing survivor perks but you are not fixing her hatchet hitbox? Seriously, the killer threw the hatchet at a wall, NOT at me and I was still downed because I was nearby the hatchet? There was no animation of me being downed, my character just collapsed, the wood particles and the wood sound tells me the hatchet was thrown at a wall. I really wish there was a replay feature to show how disgustingly broken her hitbox is.
The hitbox does not match the survivor model, but is behind the survivor, which is why you feel like this... Has nothing to do with the hatchet hitbox though.
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@hiza said:
When will déjà vu be corrected? That park was only supposed to be a replacement for the generator hardening measures.
It saves you like 5 seconds on a generator if you work on it solo full time... Why exactly would you want to change that? Just so the perk can disappear from matches again for the usual stuff? They could rework it but I don't see a reason to nerf it back again... General perks of survivors are bad enough, no reason to nerf this one further.
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@Skitten56 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3705881#Comment_3705881
BHVR could just make it so that when another survivor is currently slugged, Victor latches onto a survivor when they down them like in the PTB, instead of being able to continue the slugging spree. Would solve the slugging issue without that awful rework.
Perhaps, but then they might be quite weak, because the player knows he only needs to get away as far as possible to hold Victor hostage by being attached to him... Not sure if that is good design. Would be a bit similar to how he worked on PTB or do you mean he latches on the survivor on injure and on down?
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@BlackRose89 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707156#Comment_3707156
I said he might as well be considered a comp player, I didn't say he was. He is in deep enough and good enough to be a comp player and that was my point. A lot of his opinions and ideas come from a person who is at the top of MMR and those players imo don't think about the average player's experience. They only care about the experience at their level and are the ones who will say "skill issue" if someone isn't having fun or struggling in the game. At least that is my experience with players like Hens, he doesn't care about someone like myself, an avg killer main who has to deal with the ######### MMR system putting me again survivors who are clearly out of my skill range.
Either way back on topic, I never said Twins was weak. In fact, I know they are super strong but Im opinion it isn't coming from a point of strength, it's coming from a point of fun. To me, a killer whose power can be held hostage for 30 seconds and left as a boring m1 isn't fun and just sucks. I said in this thread I get why the 30s cooldown is there and if they can't lower it then that's fine. They could then at least figure a way to make charlotte more interesting to play when she doesn't have access to her power thanks to a survivor holding onto Victor.
Thats quite a bit of speculation... Also a weird thing to call him egoistic when he always tries to point out when something is busted for ordinary players.
Fair, but then we would need a full power rework, again... And I don't think that will be the top priority as of right now.
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@adam1233467 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707335#Comment_3707335
Bug needs to be fixed
End of discussion
By that logic looping would have been removed from the game...
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707265#Comment_3707265
That is fair, and I was a little saddened when BHVR announced they had no intention of creating new perks after Stranger Things was brought back and lost teb respective perks for Steve Nancy and Demo.
There are a number of perks that needs overhauling but we need new ones as well for sure.
I posted this a while back, no traction sadly, but I still would like to see something like these added:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/401345/suggestions-for-general-perks-survivor
The ideas on the post are quite decent.
Besides that bad new player experience I also think the game is way too loaded with perks, we have like 200+ perks probably on each side and that is just way too much, they seem to struggle to come with new ideas as well to some degree and there are just so many perks that nobody uses because of how useless they are. Maybe sum up the weaker ones to give one perk the effects of several, but then again they probably won't change the 3 perks per character thing...
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707156#Comment_3707156
The last time I tried watching a comp game, anti-face camp was banned because it was considered "unbalanced" lol. Survivors had to pretend that entire feature didn't exist. And the game was based on hook states instead of number of survivors killed. And duplicate survivor perks were banned. And brand new parts were banned.
And here's an example list of banned survivor perks. Over 50 survivor perks were banned in every game. Buckle up + for the people is a banned combo. Background player + flashbang is a banned combo.
I would say banning those two combos is a good thing anyway, because both are quite busted... Background player is quite overtuned as it is…and buckle up for the people is quite ridiculous as well.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707156#Comment_3707156
The last time I tried watching a comp game, anti-face camp was banned because it was considered "unbalanced" lol. Survivors had to pretend that entire feature didn't exist. And the game was based on hook states instead of number of survivors killed. And duplicate survivor perks were banned. And brand new parts were banned.
And here's an example list of banned survivor perks. Over 50 survivor perks were banned in every game. Buckle up + for the people is a banned combo. Background player + flashbang is a banned combo.
What does this have to do with anything?? Hens is not a comp player, did not play the twins in a comp setting but in public matches and so on and so forth... Also requiring a specific perk combination to not get utterly destroyed by a killer screams unbalance anyway.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707235#Comment_3707235
OK fair enough, so let's say we half that to 25h.
There are people who can't manage more than 3h a day. There are also people such as single adults or students who can manage 6-8hr a day consistently, even more on weekends.
A person such as this can get a character in just 3 days. With 14 characters to unlock at 4500 shards, a player can unlock almost the entire FTP survivor roster in a about a month and a half.
So my point is dropping the prices of everything to FTP players to have the ability to unlock everything really fast removes any reasons to ever buy anything... and while there are philanthropic people who buy content to support developers, most people won't if it's too easy, and a live service game needs to keep generating revenue to stay alive. The bundles to unlock all these characters is now pretty cheap, and you get a lot of content in the Gold Edition for the price. The solution of dropping the price of everything to make it easier for new FTP players has side effects outside of making the game easier to get into for new players, it can potentially hurt the revenue stream of DBD as a whole.
Now if you want to argue to make the base pool of perks better for new players, thus making getting into the game easier with a solid base of common perks, that is something I can get behind... but trying to balance the new player experience by making all existing content much easier to acquire with in game currency has greater implications than just that.
My whole point was saying that it is a bad idea to say a new player should just play a long time just to be able to have a perk to help with an issue the person experiences, so basically it is bad that perk x that would be nice needs to either be bought or put hours into to get it because what they from the start sucks... I don't know I think most people that start the game don't immediately play it that much, especially if they are confronted with annoying stuff like tunneling and maybe don't know yet what to do about it... Not only is it frustrating it might as well prevent them from continuing to play, which is why the new player experience needs to improve.
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Blight with sliding... Otherwise twins I guess... As I prefer being able to rush through doors and not get stuck on literally everything.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707193#Comment_3707193
OK I'm not trying to a be an arse... but 2 weeks is an insane amount of playtime to unlock a whole character? That seems quite reasonable to me...
The shrine of secrets sucks, that isn't news... it needs a major overhaul. This is my suggestion:
However outside of that what is your point?
A new player has to unlock characters and perks to use them? I mean thats the entire point of the prestige system isn't it? Or are we proposing scrapping that and giving all perks to all players? Premium content is what it is... it has to be premium in order to fund the licenses that allow them to be in the game… it kinda sucks it has to be that way, but it's that or nothing.
Even with Premium content though, you make it sound like without Decisive Strike or Off The Record the game is completely unplayable... which isn't true. I myself play the game regularly without exhaustion perks or second chance perks, and I have only 1100 hours in the game total… I'm still a newb, and yet I'm fine. I think you've been playing much longer than me, but when I started playing last year, Sprint Burst, We'll Make It, Prove Thyself/Deja Vu and Kindred is a pefectly viable starter player build, and is available from the base game... in fact is actually available just by playing Meg alone.
A new player is going up against low ranked killers, killers likely to be doing Adepts, killers not having all the killer perks themselves... Killers lacking Pain Res, Pop, Grim Embrace, Deadlock, Dead Man's Switch, Surge, Eruption.. the starter killer perks are often a lot worse than the the starter survivor ones... so I'm having trouble discerning your point...
What are you proposing exactly? Giving everyone Decisive Strike as a free perk?
A whole character that in case of survivor is nothing more than a skin that breathes louder or more quiet and gives you 3 perks. Also 2 weeks? How many games do you think a new player plays in that time? You probably need around 50 h to get those shards... According to the wiki it should require around 65000 XP points to reach that level, 300xp a day for the first game on both sides, around 600-672xp per game max. If the person plays survivor probably a lot less, because the game probably won't last ten minutes, at least not for that guy.. So let's say it goes well and he gets to play 4 games an hour and gets like 350 xp per game. So 1400xp per h. That is a little less than 50 h, let's say 45 h because we still have the daily xp bonus for the first game.
So to call this two weeks the guy is playing 3 h a day for two weeks straight, without getting frustrated because he feels defenseless when the killer goes for him right away after getting unhooked and with very little understanding of how the game works at that point...
My point is not necessarily that it is bad that you need to unlock content, my point is that the new player experience sucks because you don't have good anti tunnel perks without getting additional characters.. That should not be the case, the base stuff should already be decent, but as it is right now the general perks for killer and survivor are mostly trash. Which is why beginners are very limited in their options for not only decent builds but especially for builds against tunneling.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707193#Comment_3707193
He means via purchasing the character with shards. Zarina is 4500. I understand the anger at the shards that are locked behind pay, but unlocking things via gameplay is a pretty normal mechanic.
I also mentioned that alternative, but it takes probably like 100+ hours of playtime to get that character... Which is really a lot... Sure unlocking stuff via playtime is one thing... But DBD takes the crown in how long it takes. It takes several thousand hours to unlock everything and until then your kit is very limited. The perks you get baseline and are available for all characters are just really weak, which is why the new player experience is so bad, among other reasons.
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@Zakon05 said:
Didn't they just remove depipping?
They did, but who knows, maybe it is bugged...
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707158#Comment_3707158
You can get OTR within a couple of weeks farming for shards. Dead Hard is available immediately from the base game.
Regarding OP:
"All killers" are not hard tunneling a player immediately out of the game and ignoring everything else. I see it happen maybe 3/5 games on the most unlucky days (Ive experiencd this 3 times in 12 months), and 1 in 10 most days. Claims tunnelling is in every game is an inflammatory and frustrating exaggeration, to the point saying it makes it hard to take any other point made seriously.
Does tunneling need addressing? Maybe. Disabling Pain Res to stop working once a player dies would be a change worth considering to combat tunneling.
The shrine eats a lot of shards for just one perk... And a couple of weeks still means within that time you don't have it... And you don't even know how long it takes for the perk to be in the shrine again, worst case you have to wait for months... Buying the character takes a huge amount of playtime to buy it with shards. I don't think such perks should be locked within high amounts of playtime or behind a pay wall... Besides that dead hard would probably be quite hard to use for a beginner... So that one does not really help them much anyway.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
They just buffed DS to its meta version (and it was allready meta before just not in top 5 perks) and I saw yesterday The Unknown that was very good player, 75 prestige as well and he got hit by 3x times the DS and he didn't want to tunnel its just Survivors was in his face or he had no other option than that Survivor because nobody was near by.
You are getting tunneled? DS is your option or even OTR.
Great, what do new players do that don't have those perks? Spend a lot of money to get them?
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@BlackRose89 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707138#Comment_3707138
Tbh Hens might as well be a comp player or at least be semi consider as one since major of his content as of late been hosting comp tournaments. Just passed two weekend he host a Spring Invitational Tournament. He may not play comp himself but he does heavy surround himself in comp and has a comp mindset. Just saying tho.
Comp player = someone who hosts tournaments? Excuse me xD so the guy who moderates a football match is a football player? ^^
I don't think he has a comp mindset at all... He seems to mostly play chill... It just seems like that because he is good at the game.
But even if he was, that would speak even more towards the point of twins being too strong right now... Because when even comp players cannot figure out what to do against a killer that can slug the entire team without much effort then what are 4 solos or pub players in general supposed to do?
Or are you seriously telling me that what he did in those games on his stream was so hard to achieve that only someone with 10k hours could have done it?
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@adam1233467 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3706870#Comment_3706870
the only map that this is the case is red forest
Thats a lie... You bump on basically every surface as soon as you look at it from a slight angle... Especially some corners from objects are extremely easy to accidentally get stuck on.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3706872#Comment_3706872
Comp DBD involves less than 0.01% of the players, and isn't representative of public DBD games at all. There are many public DBD games, where Twins lost, but the survivors never held Victor hostage. So it's not a mandatory counterplay.
There's also a big difference between a really fast 10 seconds and a really slow 30 seconds. BHVR, could instead limit Victor hostages to 15 seconds or 20 seconds, and try that.
And yes, the locker counterplay is still there. I've been in many games in the past, where a survivor jumped in a locker, but Charlotte was so far away that she couldn't get to that locker in 10 seconds. I've also had many games where Victor knocked someone to the ground, then immediately got kicked by someone else, and that someone else healed the slugged survivor off the ground before Charlotte could get there. I've also had games where a survivor was at a very safe dropped pallet, and Victor literally couldn't reach the survivor because the pallet was that safe.
OK, who mentioned comp DBD? Is Hens suddenly a comp player or is he a streamer and content creator?
Even if Victor gets kicked after the down you have him back in no time and can just go right back there and attack the one healing the slug.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3706872#Comment_3706872
Well the counter play is not supposed to be holding him hostage. The counter play is stacking and healing. Healing counters the slugging which is the only way they win and grouping leads to them getting kicked on every successful down which means they are generally picked up before you can get back or they do get there in time and now you’re forcing her to down, walk over, down, walk over, which is losing them the game anyway as that’s too time deficient.
This all said, I can understand why you want the Victor held hostage to be a thing, but I think we can both agree having their power held hostage like that is bad design and not fun for the killer. So if we are doing that, then Charlotte needs something to make her fun to use when she doesn’t have her power. Maybe she needs her own power as well or some kind of strength boost she gets while Victor is taken.
The issue is just that it always has been. And especially with those short cooldown you cannot heal faster than she can injure.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3706776#Comment_3706776
I really hope BHVR changes their minds on the Victor hostage situation.
The Twins rework was supposed to fix the Victor hostage situation, and I don’t understand why that needs to be completely reverted. Why can’t we try 20 seconds, and see how the feedback goes?
Victor hostages just heavily encourage Twins to prioritize injured survivors, which can often be a survivor that was recently unhooked. It’s basically punishing Twins if they want to prioritize a healthy survivor, instead of tunneling an injured survivor.
Well as Hens for example described it holding Victor hostage is basically the counterplay to them, because everything else is just the killer player missing and with that super low recall time you can just 4 men slug way too easy... He injures them faster than they can heal and there is no reason for him to pick up.
I mean sure losing your power for that long sucks, but what are the survivors supposed to do otherwise? Run to the opposite side of the map and jump into a locker?
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@adam1233467 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3706811#Comment_3706811
al least a new player will not drop Blight because of his bad collision
You bump super easy to the point where you bump even when you don't want to, so I would not be so sure about it..