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@Troman said:
In a discussion about balance we can either base our arguments on our personal killer/survivor-main opinion, which is based on experience of just a single person and is very prone to cognitive biases. Or we can base it on the sum of experiences of all players gathered by an unbiased algorithm in form of stats.
Common sense suggests that stats beat any single personal opinion in accuracy hands down. I'm sure no one in his right mind will dispute it. Undoubtedly, any stats must be taken with a grain of salt just like any other information, but it's obvious that you try to downgrade their role mostly because you don't agree with the picture they show us. So, seeing biased personal opinions being represented as the "final authority" I will not shut up about the stats, because it is the most accurate and unbiased piece of information we can possible have. Period.
I'm not saying anecdotes are the final authority, I don't think there is any final authority. I'm just saying that stats aren't the final authority either and they shouldn't derail a discussion. As for my bias, I don't think there is one conclusion that can be unquestionably drawn from the stats. The title here is probably a little clickbait, but I'm not anti-stats, I just don't like stats being seen as irrefutable or hijacking a conversation.
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You definitely raise legitimate points, but it also sounds like you've got some schpit going on irl; if you ever want to talk to someone feel free to dm me here (although idk if you can) or add me on Steam (I'm "Friendship is Tragic ").
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/911561#Comment_911561
Proof that statistics are often wrong right here.
Or missing context- maybe @thatguyinktown is @Peanits' ex and makes negative comments on everything Peanits says.
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@Talmeer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/911794#Comment_911794
That was maybe true in the beginning of the multiplayer-era, but today... I have my doubts.
Today the people gather together for such things over Facebook, official communication platforms and we don't wanna miss streamers who sometimes encourage their audience either directly, or indirectly to do it.
I would take any bet that this results also in many dcs from people that are just angerd because of real life stuff, or that just hope to make the game in general easier for them and similar reason.
Imo, the people that are really upset for a comprehensible reason about xyz, are the smallest part of the dcing crowd.
There I prefer it more to see feeled 1k nerf threads as those guys.
Again, just because there's lots of DCs doesn't mean it needs to be changed, but it should at the very least be reviewed and scrutinized by BHVR.
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@BunnyTheHutt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/112127/shut-up-about-the-statistics
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/911555#Comment_911555
then they shouldn't of released it. The point of stats is too create discussions, so what's the point of releasing stats when the devs keep saying "don't talk about the stats." The stats are inaccurate and shouldn't of been released in the first place as it has only cause confusion.
I'm not saying the stats are bad or shouldn't be discussed, I'm saying that they should be discussed with context and in a polite manner.
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@Usui said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/911726#Comment_911726
But it's not false. If you come here enough you'll know what I mean. Not saying that out of spite.
I think I come here often enough, but I hope we can agree that we both have valid opinions even if we disagree :)
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@Talmeer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/911660#Comment_911660
Well, I assume, I think the same as you about statistics, if I look at your answer to the Warlock.
However, its maybe just me and because I play online games already more as a decade (I assume... At some point you don't count the years anymore :(), but DCing guys are in every game for me just a form of toxic people if they not dc for valid reasons, like that they got a phone call, or that someone rings at the door and so on... Real life stuff.
And that means, in my eyes - they have no voice. As soon as someone says that he dcs, or that he supports such behavior, he can say what he want -I don't care anymore.
If someone has a problem with something, he can either try to get better in whatever via tutorials and videos, or he can write his thoughts in the official forums. That are imo the right ways to do it.
Yeah, if people are DCing over something that doesn't necessarily mean it should be changed, but it should be reviewed. Catering to DCers is definitely a bad idea, but if it's a lot higher than average, that indicates there are probably people who don't usually DC doing so because of that.
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@Yamaoka said:
Statistics always mean SOMETHING albeit not EVERYTHING. If -just hypothetically- a killer had a 100% kill rate across all ranks something has to be looked at because that killer certainly does not perform as intended.
Absolutely! Sorry if I wasn't clear, but I'm not trying to say the stats are useless or shouldn't be talked about, I'm saying that stats should be discussed reasonably and in context, and should not be treated as gospel or be so contentious.
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@Usui said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/112127/shut-up-about-the-statistics
I never use statistics here as argument. That's your killer mains on this forum that like to do that. For me it's personal experience. When I tell you nurse is fine even with her nerfs, that's not statistics. That's my weekly games against nurse in red ranks where she's still able to get 3-4k easily on ANY map.
To me, this is fine except for the bit about killer mains. For one thing, I see statistics misused by survivors and killers. For another, the term itself promotes the division and factionalization of the community. There shouldn't be an Us vs Them mentality. Changes shouldn't be made because they're good for survivors or killers, they should be made because they're good for the game.
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@Warlock_2020 said:
The numbers don't lie, but they also don't tell the whole truth. I live in the world of statistics and you always have to use them as a part of a whole. Most of the time, statistics are a good point to start looking at potential focus areas are. Then you find the truth.
Exactly! The statistics themselves aren't wrong, but they don't have much context.
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@Talmeer said:
I would take any bhvr statistic above the argument "unfun".
Sry, for crashing the party, but imo is "unfun" the worst reason to nerf... Whatever. Since everything in every game is for some people fun and for some unfun.
We would need to delete the game, to make it not unfun for someone, while it would be unfun then towards the...
Argh sorry for letting me driving away in the wrong direction:|.
You're not taking this in the wrong direction at all! Your opinion that "unfun" is an invalid argument is, in my eyes, totally valid! It's okay to disagree with me (or my example, I don't actually have any strong feelings on the forever freddy changes) as long as you're respectful and constructive! I'm not saying discussions shouldn't move on to other topics as the conversation continues, I just don't like when including stats in an argument turns the thread into a shouting match about stats.
I agree that BHVR shouldn't nerf something because a few people complain about it. Fun is definitely subjective, and what one survivor finds unfun might be a nice change of pace for another or an absolute blast for the killer. But I think that if something is consistently generating anger across one group while others feel indifferent, or if it correlates with a significantly higher DC rate, it's something BHVR should look at.
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Giving her a tell would, in my humble opinion, severely weaken her and take away a lot of her anti-looping power. If you know when she's phasing, you know what to do. But that uncertainty is why I find it fun to play as and against Spirit. It feels great to call a Spirit's bluff, and it feels great to successfully bluff a survivor. I think the Spirit nerf did enough to make this fair, since survivors now know when a Spirit is vaulting and Spirits can't know for sure a survivor is waiting based on collision.
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Your sarcastic title should say "woe" not "whoa".
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Who's Hillbilly #2?
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What dog?
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OINK OINK
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@Might_Oakk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/908569#Comment_908569
If you are having trouble playing killer in 2019 that's on you.
You are certainly the minority as shown in statistical information or by any streamer.
Otz just played 16 games of trapper without Ruin and brown add ons and 0 games were 5 gens completed
Otz is not representative of all killers! If every killer was Otz they would eliminate all the killer perks except for Monstrous Shrine and Mad Grit. Just because Otz (or any other streamer/youtuber) does well with something does not mean it's broken! Not all killers are Otzs and not all survivors are No0b3s.
SWF is all over not because it's needed to beat killers, but because it makes it easier to do so. BHVR has pretty much said that they're going to try and bring solo players up to SWF levels of info and coordination and then balance killers around that. SWF is a problem, not a symptom or a solution.
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I love how many people don't get the joke.
But in all seriousness, on the topic of flashlights, I think that they're very powerful in the right hands and in the right situation. The only situation where a flashlight would be my first choice of item is if I somehow knew the killer would be The Hag. Hag aside, the only viable uses of flashlights are at pallets and windows, and as the killer is picking up a survivor. In the first situation, you're usually better off making distance rather than trying to get a sick juke. In the latter, you need to be in front of the killer as he picks someone up, and you have to get the timing just right. And if the killer figures out you're nearby before he starts the pickup animation, they'll just go after you.
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Disclaimer: I'm an awful Nurse. But I notice you said you don't use add ons, and I can see why you would do that, but after the rework add ons are designed not to interfere with your muscle memory, and a couple seem designed specifically to help new Nurses. For practice Nurse I'd recommend Plaid Flannel, which show you where your blink will take you, and Wooden Horse (might be something else), which decreases the extra fatigue for missing a blink attack. They're both common, and it's good to use them now because once you've gotten better with Nurse you won't have any need for them.
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I always assumed that was addressed to The Entity, but the possibility that it is talking to someone or something else is very interesting. However, there's no evidence of anything else that killers would pray to or that would protect them from The Void, and without something more concrete this is just speculation.
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Interesting idea, but I would note a few things:
First, blood daggers is a cool idea, but very exploitable. Down someone, then make and use daggers until they bleed out. I would change it so that daggers can only be used in a chase and you can carry at most 3. Or you gain one on hitting a survivor, but they can't put a survivor in the dying state.
Second, Witch's Skin would get so much hate. Idk if it would be balanced or not, but I will point out that it could be redundant if it exhausted someone and disabled their exhaustion perk.
Finally, Bird of Prey would be crazy OP on some maps (The Game, Haddonfield) and useless on others (Shelter Woods, Azarov's Resting Place).
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Play With Your Food is also great with Nemesis. Even if you never try to get the full 3 stacks, 5% extra movement speed can be the difference between getting a hit as they go through the window or whiffing. And you have to have it since it's one of The Shape's teachables.
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I wouldn't do it just because I want BP, but I absolutely wouldn't blame someone who did.
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@XxkuroxshiroxX said:
What if Spirit and Oni teamed up? They would be uncounterable
But would they? Oni would want to fight alongside his kin, but Spirit wouldn't care, she just kills and kills and kills.
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Posted this in another discussion, will copy and paste here:
If we're talking a killer vs killer free for all, it would depend a lot on terrain. If it was Hillbilly vs Trapper, I think Billy would win in an open arena, being able to utilize his speed, but in something like a realm in game Trapper would be able to use his traps to limit that. Ultimately, I don't have one killer I think would win hands down, but I'll run through the strengths and weaknesses of everyone.
The Trapper would, as I said above, be most effective in a proper "map", but even in open terrain he wouldn't be a pushover. One of his perks is Brutal Strength, which would be helpful, and his cleaver would give him decent reach. Also, he's one of the more intelligent killers, being raised normally and not going insane.
I love The Wraith, but he wouldn't be that great in a fight. His power is best for surprise attacks, and he needs add ons to do that effectively (Ghost and pink clapper). None of his perks would be particularly useful, and his weapon isn't very practical. He could easily beat a regular human, but would be overpowered by most other killers. He'd have to outsmart his opponent in a 1 on 1, but in a free for all he could definitely slip away and let everyone else fight it out, then pick off weakened prey.
The Hillbilly is another strong contender. His hammer and chainsaw are both devastating weapons, and the latter gives him excellent speed, especially in open terrain. Given that one of his perks is Enduring, he'd certainly be hard to kill, and the description for Tinkerer would imply that he's smarter than he seems.
The Nurse would have the potential to be an excellent hit and run fighter, if it wasn't for the fact that she gets fatigue immediately after she hits someone, and would be helpless during this time. If she was going to blink and hit, she'd need to kill or disable in one hit, which just isn't feasible on killers like The Demigorgon. What the blink would be useful for is making a quick getaway from a dangerous situation. Also, The Nurse has some form of telekinesis, based on her animations for breaking pallets, damaging generators, and hooking survivors. This is likely very short range, but could still throw off some killers, perhaps being able to telekinetically catch hatchets or bottles. But overall I think she'd be a bad fighter.
The Huntress, on the other hand, would definitely bring some girl power! While she would be a lot more limited if there were no lockers, her hatchets still offer her a unique opportunity to safely deal damage. And if she had add ons to hinder or exhaust her target, she'd be even more of a force to be reckoned with. Her biggest weakness is her mental underdevelopment, so she could easily be outsmarted.
The Hag would sadly be pretty bad. Her perks delay survivors and punish altruism, but in a fight gens and hooks don't matter. Her weapon, being a part of her body, wouldn't be good for blocking attacks. And surprise attacks can only do so much when many killers could probably throw her around like a rag doll. And the final nail in her coffin is that she seems to be crazed by her hunger for flesh, so she probably couldn't do much planning or strategizing.
The Doctor is an interesting one since I think every killer would react differently. Huntress and Hag would definitely be thrown off, while The Trapper would probably adapt pretty quickly and The Demogorgon might not be affected at all. His weapon and physical strength are unremarkable among the killers, so his success would come down to his ability to outsmart his opponent and the power of his shocks. When he shocks a survivor, it just maddens them and stops them from vaulting or dropping pallets. But when he moris someone, he easily kills them with his electricity. It seems that his shocks are stronger at closer ranges, which makes sense given how electricity travels. So The Doctor could be... surprisingly... effective at close range.
The Clown would be a pushover. Once he's out of bottles he's just a fat guy with a knife. He would get killed if he tried to take the time to mix more bottles, so he'd have to capitalize on them and win quickly. But the bottles hinder, not halt, and an intoxicated Myers could absolutely take The Clown.
The Spirit is another killer that people think would be really strong, and I agree, for a number of reasons: first, she has two perks, Spirit Fury and Rancor, that suggest she has a massive amount of potential power. Second, her sword is nothing to mess around with, assuming it doesn't re-shatter. And finally, I'm not sure she could even be killed. Maybe destroying her head and/or heart would do the trick, but given that she's still kicking with her legs severed, I'm doubtful. In light of all this, her power is at best, a triviality, and at worst a liability if damaging her husk would damage her. However, she is completely blinded by rage, so she's likely one you would have to outsmart.
If you need to wait out The Clown, you need to do the opposite for The Plague. Her best chance is to infect and then delay and wait until she can finish off a weakened target. But since she herself is likely weakened by disease, the best option against her is likely brute force before she can build up her advantage.
The Legion is an interesting case. Assuming they don't share a body and are 4 separate people, their best advantage is numbers. Their weakness would be that they're physically frail, just a bunch of kids with knives, really. And they're not seasoned fighters (except maybe Frank) and would be prone to panicking and making mistakes.
Crossing the bridge between original characters and liscenced ones, Ghostface would be trash in a fight. He relies on stealth, surprise, and picking on the weak, but he'd get ripped apart by The Hillbilly or The Trapper, and even Amanda could probably take him.
Now that we're getting into the properly licensed characters, I'll just take a moment to say this is going to be based on the game more than their movies (or TV show), although I will take it into account when I can.
So, Leatherface. He's one you'd definitely need to surprise or trick, otherwise he'll just rev up his saw and thrash around until everything is dead. Fortunately, tricking him wouldn't be too hard, since my understanding is that he ain't the sharpest tool in the shed.
Myers is an odd case, since in his movies he gets stunned by a bullet about as much as he gets stunned by a pallet in game. Like I said, I'm taking game over film, so Myers isn't invincible. He's tough and strong, but so are most other killers. He's one you wouldn't want to delay fighting, since the more he watches you the stronger he gets. Most killers could take on Teir 1 Myers and do well. Very few could do the same against a Teir 3 Myers.
Freddy is the other killer who I feel differs significantly from his source material. And before I go any further, this is based on post-rework Freddy. Anyways, you don't have to be asleep to interact with him, which makes him a lot less threatening. He can't dictate when and where the fight happens. Fire Up might imply he'll get stronger as he starts losing, but even then the numbers don't come close to Brutal Strength until Freddy's half dead. And while he's nigh-omnipotent in dreams in his movies, all he can do in The Fog is make snares and pallets. He would be intimidating, but not a major threat.
The Pig would be in much the same situation as The Legion, but without numbers. Her weapon is very short range, and to get a reverse bear trap on someone they need to already be helpless, so that won't do anything. She could get in one good ambush hit, but after that she's toast.
The Demogorgon seems to be like The Spirit in that their power wouldn't be particularly useful, but they don't need it to be terrifying. I haven't watched Stranger Things (shameful, I know) but I hear he/she/it is bulletproof, and that alone makes The Demogorgon a threat. Combine that with a terrifying lunge and a wicked bite, and The Demogorgon is a force to be reckoned with.
Last but not least, our newest killer, The Oni. He has a significant advantage in that he isn't just strong, he's a warrior and a veteran of many battles and duels. Even when not in Oni form, the katana is a very dangerous weapon and he knows how to use it. Also, he actually has armor, and while it might not stop a cleaver or an axe, it would likely hold up well against The Doctor's stick or The Hag's claws. In Oni form, he could probably only be stopped by The Demogorgon, but there's a catch: he needs blood. For most killers this isn't an issue, the only killers that POSSIBLY don't bleed are Nurse, Hag, and maybe Demogorgon if extra-dimensional blood doesn't feed The Oni. But there's another catch here: I don't think blighted killers have blood. The Spirit's blighted skin shows that in the chops in her limbs, it's orange all the way through. No blood. So The Oni could be at a major disadvantage against a blighted killer, especially considering that the blight gave The Trapper, and presumably others, even more strength.
So there's my battle analysis rant, kudos to you if you read the whole thing
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@FriendlyGuy said:
Haddonfield. That map is still BS.
Personally, I've never had a huge problem with Haddonfield on either side, but I'm at mid ranks and I can see how it would be bad at higher ranks.
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@liarcy said:
Sadly it’s the most recent map ( not anymore really) Hawkins it’s just bad I hate playing it not just as survivor but also as killer the map is very confusing and loud it’s hard to keep track of anything and well , pallets are a joke there
I agree that Hawkins needs some work, but mostly just tuning down the ambient noise. It's hard to keep track of things and find routes, but far from impossible, and the pallets are different, but not necessarily in a bad way. There are lots of pallets, but few really safe ones survivors can loop. I like this because it makes a chase more of a chase; you're not staying in one place trying to force down a good pallet.
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DS- Not Decisive Strike, Dedicated Servers
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For me what really gets me is when I hit Dead Hard and I get exhausted, but still get hit. Pallet and window hits are always gonna be there, but the Dead Hard thing is easily what I hate the most, especially since I'm a bad player and when I successfully Dead Hard it feels like a big deal, and I just feel robbed of that.
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@Fibijean said:
The way I look at it, BB&G is essentially a prequel to the Trapper's existing lore. It tells us how Evan went from a sensitive, conflicted young man to one who "idolised his father", did whatever he asked of him, and "became his enforcer in what would become known as the worst mass murder in modern history".
I believe, as stated in the original lore, that Evan and his father massacred the miners together, and Evan was on board with this because he became more and more like his father as he grew older and eventually came to admire and respect him, and see the workmen as the "maggots" that his father did.
"Evan lead over a hundred men into those dark tunnels before detonating the explosives and sealing them to their fate" - to me, this sounds like he used his previous friendship with the miners to trick them into following him to their deaths. My theory is that Evan eventually told his father about the union, and the two of them planned the massacre as a way to both punish the miners for their insolence and prevent their revolution from coming to a head.
Archie was later "found trapped in the locked basement of his own warehouse - starved and abandoned". We know Evan was conflicted, and there was probably always a small part of him that knew what he and his father were doing was wrong. My theory is that after the massacre, Evan was so filled with remorse for his betrayal and the deaths of his friends, and resentment towards his father, that he flipped back the other way and sought retribution against Archie for both the deaths of the miners and the way he had manipulated Evan into being a part of it. He probably despised himself for what he did both to the miners and to his father.
As for the cinematic, I definitely think it's a dream sequence. I believe it represents Evan's conflicting loyalties, and is maybe set at a later time when he is bending to his father's influence but that part of him is still trying to pull away. In the dream, he witnesses his father beating up a worker before the mine collapses around him. When he wakes up, we see that his hand is bandaged (the same hand his father was using to punch the man in the dream). Perhaps Evan was actually responsible for beating one of the workers, and in the dream his guilty conscience was projecting his own wrongdoing onto his father, maybe because he felt it was really his father's fault for pushing him in that direction. At the end, the camera pans onto a photo beside his bed of him and his father standing together, suggesting that is where his loyalties now lie.
So to answer your question, why Evan and not Archie, I would say it's because Archie was not a killer. The Entity seems to take people who either enjoy killing and have motivation to continue, or people who are already broken and vulnerable to the Entity's influence, and who may have done terrible things in the past but are still sympathetic characters for one reason or another. Archie was neither. He was strong and self-righteous, not vulnerable to manipulation, but he also killed the miners for a very specific and personal reason, and had no drive to continue killing beyond that.
Evan, on the other hand, was a completely broken man by the time the Entity got to him. He might have fought the Entity's influence the way he fought his father's, but in the end, he was tortured into submission in much the same way as we see happening in BB&G.
(Sorry for the essay - hopefully it's interesting and not crippling to read!)
Very interesting ideas, I like it a lot! The only thing I'd disagree with is that Archie killed his wife and brother as well, but this doesn't contradict your larger point since it sounds like he killed them because they were bad for business.
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I only say EZ when the match gets canceled because it's obviously a joke. And I'm sure people will call me an oversensitive baby, but it can legitimately hurt my feelings when the survivors say EZ after a game where I was trying my best and lost. Again, saying it jokingly is fine, but when you have to rub your victory in someone's face, you're just being mean for no reason.
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@TooKoolFoU said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/872980#Comment_872980
my wraith, I use noed and blood warden but it’s just a good combo on him
Blood Warden and NOED are just a good combo in general. Heck, Blood Warden is super hard to pull off without it
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@Liruliniel said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/871629#Comment_871629
Whoa whoa whoa Wraith dont need NoeD or Ruin. I use Wraith fine without either of those with BBQ&C, Save The Best For Last, Pop Goes The Weasel, and Hex: Devour Hope. I commonly 4k without many issues and Wraith isn't even close to my main.
Maybe you're just a god teir wraith, but my point is still that lots of weaker killers rely on a couple of meta perks (one of which is NOED) to perform
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As someone who plays both roles, I think NOED is irritating but fair. If you want to not do totems and risk NOED, that's your choice. Especially for weaker killers like Wraith or Doc, you need NOED and/or Ruin to have any hope of doing well. My one objection would be that you have to do all 5 totems to stop it. I'll often leave a very visible totem up knowing we likely won't do all 5. I think a good NOED rework would still punish gen rushing but not require survivors to do EVERY totem. My NOED rework suggestion would go something like this:
When all the gens are powered, all remaining totems will become active. Gain a token for every active totem.
- For every token, the killer gains +3/4/5% movement speed
-At 3 tokens, survivors suffer from the exposed status effect
-At 5 tokens, the killer may kill survivors by their own hand
This is (if you hadn't noticed) based on Devour Hope, but it would give survivors much more power over it. Even the solo doing a dull totem they happen across prevents the worst of it, but you have to put in some effort to find 3 totems and stop the insta-downs. But there is still a fair incentive to get all the totems.
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As survivor, I like Disturbed Ward, Father Cambell's Chapel, and Badham Preschool. I like the Crotus Prenn maps because they have a nice bunch of safe tiles and the center buildings are safe, but it's not disgustingly survivor sided like Haddonfield. Plus, for Disturbed Ward the center is only safe so long as most of the pallets are there. And Badham is just very nice and balanced after the rework.
My least favorite maps as survivor are The Game, Hawkins National Laboratory, and Shelter Woods. For The Game, it's difficult to hide and the verticality makes the terror radius unreliable. For Hawkins, it's hard to find gens and the ambient noise is distracting, plus there are no safe pallets. For Shelter Woods, everything has big dead zones between everything else.
As killer, my favorites are Hawkins, Badham, and Disturbed Ward. I like Badham and the Ward for being balanced, and not too many pallets, but by no means too few. I like Hawkins because the pallets are easy to mind game, survivors get lost easily, and the ambient noise can mask my footsteps as a stealth killer.
As killer, my least favorite maps are Haddonfield, Rotten Fields, and Hawkins. Yes, Hawkins is a favorite and a least favorite as killer. I hate Haddonfield because even after the BL nerf the vaults are still gonna be a pain. For Rotten Fields, the gens are so spread out it's hard to defend, and I. Hate. Corn. As for Hawkins, it's got so many pallets, it's easy for me to get lost or accidentally take a detour, and the ambient noise makes it hard to hear survivors.
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@arslaN said:
Not really. It's a dead perk without the reduced stagger. There is really no reason to use bl over other exhaustion perks now.
"There is really no reason to use bl over other exhaustion perks now."
THAT'S THE POINT!!! Exhaustion perks shouldn't give benefits when you're exhausted! Complaining about BL getting nerfed is like saying Dead Hard is useless because you can't use it when you're exhausted.
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WRAITH!!!!!
WRAITH!!!!!!!!!!
WRAIIIIIIIIIITHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
@Volfawott The Demidigorgonborgon is a close second
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@Bigbootiejudy666 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/859257#Comment_859257
Jesus you just did a whole ass essay lol. But what about the Hag's Traps? Could she use them as a distraction or something?
Maybe, but for most killers that's only going to work once, if at all, even if she had the add on for collision. Her best combat add on would probably be the Mint Rag though, since she could go to an inactivated trap for some hit and run tactics. I suppose if she wanted to use traps as distractions, she could put them all in one area and wait. That would be really disorienting, but only for a few seconds.
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If we're talking a killer vs killer free for all, it would depend a lot on terrain. If it was Hillbilly vs Trapper, I think Billy would win in an open arena, being able to utilize his speed, but in something like a realm in game Trapper would be able to use his traps to limit that. Ultimately, I don't have one killer I think would win hands down, but I'll run through the strengths and weaknesses of everyone.
The Trapper would, as I said above, be most effective in a proper "map", but even in open terrain he wouldn't be a pushover. One of his perks is Brutal Strength, which would be helpful, and his cleaver would give him decent reach. Also, he's one of the more intelligent killers, being raised normally and not going insane.
I love The Wraith, but he wouldn't be that great in a fight. His power is best for surprise attacks, and he needs add ons to do that effectively (Ghost and pink clapper). None of his perks would be particularly useful, and his weapon isn't very practical. He could easily beat a regular human, but would be overpowered by most other killers. He'd have to outsmart his opponent in a 1 on 1, but in a free for all he could definitely slip away and let everyone else fight it out, then pick off weakened prey.
The Hillbilly is another strong contender. His hammer and chainsaw are both devastating weapons, and the latter gives him excellent speed, especially in open terrain. Given that one of his perks is Enduring, he'd certainly be hard to kill, and the description for Tinkerer would imply that he's smarter than he seems.
The Nurse would have the potential to be an excellent hit and run fighter, if it wasn't for the fact that she gets fatigue immediately after she hits someone, and would be helpless during this time. If she was going to blink and hit, she'd need to kill or disable in one hit, which just isn't feasible on killers like The Demigorgon. What the blink would be useful for is making a quick getaway from a dangerous situation. Also, The Nurse has some form of telekinesis, based on her animations for breaking pallets, damaging generators, and hooking survivors. This is likely very short range, but could still throw off some killers, perhaps being able to telekinetically catch hatchets or bottles. But overall I think she'd be a bad fighter.
The Huntress, on the other hand, would definitely bring some girl power! While she would be a lot more limited if there were no lockers, her hatchets still offer her a unique opportunity to safely deal damage. And if she had add ons to hinder or exhaust her target, she'd be even more of a force to be reckoned with. Her biggest weakness is her mental underdevelopment, so she could easily be outsmarted.
The Hag would sadly be pretty bad. Her perks delay survivors and punish altruism, but in a fight gens and hooks don't matter. Her weapon, being a part of her body, wouldn't be good for blocking attacks. And surprise attacks can only do so much when many killers could probably throw her around like a rag doll. And the final nail in her coffin is that she seems to be crazed by her hunger for flesh, so she probably couldn't do much planning or strategizing.
The Doctor is an interesting one since I think every killer would react differently. Huntress and Hag would definitely be thrown off, while The Trapper would probably adapt pretty quickly and The Demogorgon might not be affected at all. His weapon and physical strength are unremarkable among the killers, so his success would come down to his ability to outsmart his opponent and the power of his shocks. When he shocks a survivor, it just maddens them and stops them from vaulting or dropping pallets. But when he moris someone, he easily kills them with his electricity. It seems that his shocks are stronger at closer ranges, which makes sense given how electricity travels. So The Doctor could be... surprisingly... effective at close range.
The Clown would be a pushover. Once he's out of bottles he's just a fat guy with a knife. He would get killed if he tried to take the time to mix more bottles, so he'd have to capitalize on them and win quickly. But the bottles hinder, not halt, and an intoxicated Myers could absolutely take The Clown.
The Spirit is another killer that people think would be really strong, and I agree, for a number of reasons: first, she has two perks, Spirit Fury and Rancor, that suggest she has a massive amount of potential power. Second, her sword is nothing to mess around with, assuming it doesn't re-shatter. And finally, I'm not sure she could even be killed. Maybe destroying her head and/or heart would do the trick, but given that she's still kicking with her legs severed, I'm doubtful. In light of all this, her power is at best, a triviality, and at worst a liability if damaging her husk would damage her. However, she is completely blinded by rage, so she's likely one you would have to outsmart.
If you need to wait out The Clown, you need to do the opposite for The Plague. Her best chance is to infect and then delay and wait until she can finish off a weakened target. But since she herself is likely weakened by disease, the best option against her is likely brute force before she can build up her advantage.
The Legion is an interesting case. Assuming they don't share a body and are 4 separate people, their best advantage is numbers. Their weakness would be that they're physically frail, just a bunch of kids with knives, really. And they're not seasoned fighters (except maybe Frank) and would be prone to panicking and making mistakes.
Crossing the bridge between original characters and liscenced ones, Ghostface would be trash in a fight. He relies on stealth, surprise, and picking on the weak, but he'd get ripped apart by The Hillbilly or The Trapper, and even Amanda could probably take him.
Now that we're getting into the properly licensed characters, I'll just take a moment to say this is going to be based on the game more than their movies (or TV show), although I will take it into account when I can.
So, Leatherface. He's one you'd definitely need to surprise or trick, otherwise he'll just rev up his saw and thrash around until everything is dead. Fortunately, tricking him wouldn't be too hard, since my understanding is that he ain't the sharpest tool in the shed.
Myers is an odd case, since in his movies he gets stunned by a bullet about as much as he gets stunned by a pallet in game. Like I said, I'm taking game over film, so Myers isn't invincible. He's tough and strong, but so are most other killers. He's one you wouldn't want to delay fighting, since the more he watches you the stronger he gets. Most killers could take on Teir 1 Myers and do well. Very few could do the same against a Teir 3 Myers.
Freddy is the other killer who I feel differs significantly from his source material. And before I go any further, this is based on post-rework Freddy. Anyways, you don't have to be asleep to interact with him, which makes him a lot less threatening. He can't dictate when and where the fight happens. Fire Up might imply he'll get stronger as he starts losing, but even then the numbers don't come close to Brutal Strength until Freddy's half dead. And while he's nigh-omnipotent in dreams in his movies, all he can do in The Fog is make snares and pallets. He would be intimidating, but not a major threat.
The Pig would be in much the same situation as The Legion, but without numbers. Her weapon is very short range, and to get a reverse bear trap on someone they need to already be helpless, so that won't do anything. She could get in one good ambush hit, but after that she's toast.
The Demogorgon seems to be like The Spirit in that their power wouldn't be particularly useful, but they don't need it to be terrifying. I haven't watched Stranger Things (shameful, I know) but I hear he/she/it is bulletproof, and that alone makes The Demogorgon a threat. Combine that with a terrifying lunge and a wicked bite, and The Demogorgon is a force to be reckoned with.
Last but not least, our newest killer, The Oni. He has a significant advantage in that he isn't just strong, he's a warrior and a veteran of many battles and duels. Even when not in Oni form, the katana is a very dangerous weapon and he knows how to use it. Also, he actually has armor, and while it might not stop a cleaver or an axe, it would likely hold up well against The Doctor's stick or The Hag's claws. In Oni form, he could probably only be stopped by The Demogorgon, but there's a catch: he needs blood. For most killers this isn't an issue, the only killers that POSSIBLY don't bleed are Nurse, Hag, and maybe Demogorgon if extra-dimensional blood doesn't feed The Oni. But there's another catch here: I don't think blighted killers have blood. The Spirit's blighted skin shows that in the chops in her limbs, it's orange all the way through. No blood. So The Oni could be at a major disadvantage against a blighted killer, especially considering that the blight gave The Trapper, and presumably others, even more strength.
So there's my battle analysis rant, kudos to you if you read the whole thing.
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@XxkuroxshiroxX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/854546#Comment_854546
Maybe Rin does know about him, because his katana hung in her house all her life and perhaps her parents told her about him and the katana, like, a family legend or something
It's entirely possible, but there's no evidence to support that it actually happened, especially since in samurai tradition swords were passed down through families; therefore it's the Yamaoka's sword, not Kazan's sword, and this is backed up in game through various descriptions of the weapon as the family sword.
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@thrawn3054 said:
They're basically buffed up dailies. Not exciting. But it is what it is. Though I did enjoy running plunder's and trying to make sure I got all the chests. Also scaring the crows was good for a laugh.
"Amateur Ornithologist"
That still makes me giggle every time I think about it.
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In short, Oni is one of Spirit's ancestors. Actually, that's pretty much the entirety of their relationship. Kazan (The Oni) couldn't have known about Rin (The Spirit), since she's in the future to him, and we see no indication that Rin knows anything about Kazan. Basically, all they have in common is the Yamaoka name and being killers for The Entity.
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@Bamallamadingdong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/848505#Comment_848505
Bacteria can't have instincts, they don't have brains. That's why I said it would probably be a parasite if this was the case.
That's true, I guess I meant that bacteria basically just grow, eat, and duplicate. But the plague could certainly be a parasite, it's not like the Babylonians understood the difference between a bacteria and a parasite. Maybe I'll try and diagnose Adiris...
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@MojoTheFabulous said:
I barely remember the Plague's lore but she was super religious right? So the Entity probably just manipulated her into having absolute faith in the Entity like a God or something like that.
Her not killing doesn't mean much seeing as the Spirit had never killed anyone before getting taken.
I think there could definitely be some aspect of The Entity masquerading as a god to Adiris, but that doesn't mean there can't also be symbiosis at play.
And as for The Spirit, I think it is implied (or at least possible to interpret) that she was allowed to kill her father before being taken. And even if she didn't, her rage still provided motivation to kill. I suppose my problem with Adiris is not that she didn't kill, but that she had no motivation to kill. So I think your points are valid, but don't disprove my idea.
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@Bamallamadingdong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/105085/what-if-adiris-isnt-the-plague
So the plague itself is sentient? That could be cool, though I think it would make more sense if it was some kind of parasite as opposed to bacteria. There's more precedent there for a symbiotic relationship between the plague and its host, and being more biologically complex I find it easier to believe a parasite being chosen over a bunch of single cell organisms (demogorgon proves that killers don't have to be human at least).
Her backstory doesn't have her lose control or try to spread the plague though, which would hint at being infected with a parasite. The boils she's covered with could feasibly be some kind of egg things with baby parasites in them.
I quite like this idea.
I think that it's not so much a parasite as it is that The Entity has inextricably linked the plague and Adiris, to get what it needs out of both. I suspect that they're probably dependent on each other; some Entity Brand Penicillin would probably be lethal to Adiris. I doubt Adiris is sentient anymore (or at least she can't resist the instincts of the plague) and the plague never was. So The Plague is probably just operating off of plague instincts to grow and spread while being guided by The Entity to hook and mori and whatnot.
And I agree that The Plague's character design supports this. You can say that she's kept alive in her dessicated state through Entity Brand Magic like The Spirit, but isn't it more interesting to think that the disease and the human support each other?
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I like the soul splitting idea, or since we see her emotions and expressions change so frequently, they could just play it as a multiple personality disorder sort of thing, where sometimes she's feeling murderous and is a killer, when she doesn't she's a survivor.
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Pig is basically a normal human so there's not much point, plus she would be hard to disarm with her weapon strapped to her arm.
Michael is certainly stealthy and could probably evade an active search for subjects, but he's also one of the most lethal, and not physically unique, so probably not worth the trouble.
Leatherface would not be a good test subject simply because he would never calm down, and who would want to get close while he's scared or mad.
Ghostface could easily evade an active search, and he's a regular human so not terribly interesting. However, since the liscence is for the mask and not the character, we could see a blighted Ghostface in the future.
Demogorgon is probably too unique, not being human it would be totally unpredictable. Also, it would ALWAYS be dangerous, it's hands and head are lethal weapons and who knows what kind of interdimensional tomfoolery it can do (you might, but I haven't watched Stranger Things)
Also, I think most of the community, myself included, doesn't think Benedict did the blight experiments, but that's a valid opinion to have.
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It certainly doesn't decrease your chance. Personally, it depends if they're SWF. If they're toxic SWF I'll probably be more toxic. If they're meming SWF, I'll play along or hook depending on my mood. If they're solo, I just respect cuz I know from experience it's hard to use head on without friends
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I like Crotus Prenn. Nobody ever complains about Crotus Prenn. It doesn't shut down any killers or make them op. Crotus Prenn is good.
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I say no, but I would like something for the killers... even if it was just going the things they do while looking for a lobby