4thdslip
4thdslip
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@Alen_Starkly said:
In my opinion, DR (Diminishing Returns) isn't good for the current state of perks. It kills a lot of fun combos (a lot of them not even necessarily strong), and further pushes people into running meta. Either DR needs to be removed, OR a LOT of perks need to be buffed significantly.
list of survivor perks that are mid or trash, and are basically worthless with DR in place:
- Bardic Inspiration - on its own, it's a bad perk. A lot of times you won't roll a good number, and even if you do, what does a bit more progress on great skill check mean? Not a lot. It was only worth running it with Hyperfocus, and now that's gone
- Better than New - bad perk. and now if a teammate you heal is already running a perk that affects healing/cleansing/etc., this will be very insignificant
- Blood Pact - already niche and very conditional in the sense that it's tied to the obsession, and you staying within close range within them (which is usually not efficient gameplay).
- Boon: Dark Theory: already very niche and situational, and now any fun combos are dead
- Borrowed Time: since the basic off-hook endurance (and especially since the 10→15 seconds of endurance buff), "nobody" has been running this perk. It's not worth it. Basically only fun came with pairing it with something like Babysitter. This perk is not bad. On the side note, in my opinion, basekit off-hook endurance should be reverted to 10 seconds, ast least in endgame.
- Botany Knowledge - best used with combos, now it's not worth it. 1 particular combo, that was already decent at best (self-care + botany) is now demolished (unless DR doesn't apply to this combo, correct me if I'm wrong)
- Champion of Light - fun combo-ing with Fixated is now less good. It needed skill to use, and I haven't noticed many people running it. But in proper hands, it was a good and fun combo to use.
- Chemical Trap - sort of niche, and now fun combo-ing with Champion of Light is making it not worth running
- Deadline - already a bad perk, which was mostly fun being used with other mid perks: well, now it's Dead
(…)
Actually, I'm gonna leave it here, or I'll be writing for at least an hour. I think that DR idea was nice, but the effect it has on game sucks so bad. Most of the perks are not worth running at all. Another potential solution to this problem is to reduce the total perk count by at least 50%, which would also mean you start making less perks per newly released character (best 1 perk per character).
I don't think Bardic, Deadline, and Borrowed Time were effected by this change at all. Skill check builds were entirely unaffected on the PTB, and the diminishing return is not on time, it's on the percentage of the effect. However, it's still really ######### bad that the actual builds that should have been dismantled by this were not!
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997214#Comment_3997214
There is always wisdom to be gained from even lunacy. While I don't agree with most of what was said, concepts like this happen in negotiation all the time. Companies in the past have done things like double the MSRP of a product or service, then put it "on sale" for a higher amount than its previous value. The sticker shock from the MSRP hike is lessened by the FOMO of the "sale," and thus consumer pushback lessens. Its a form of appearing to present a compromise when the "sale" might have been the original target price to begin with.
I don't agree with this applying to everything that the PTB did, but I certainly don't discount that type of tactic from being possible in one or more of the changes. It could just as easily be a simple case of "we didn't realize the extent of the impact" and be genuine reevaluation. BHVR are the only ones who know for sure, but their intent tends to become more transparent over time.
I'm aware of tactics like this (I play Genshin Impact, who has had the monthly gacha pulls "on sale" for the entirety of the game's 6 year lifespan), but I'm not 100% certain that's what's occurring in this scenario. While I do think certain points may have been overextended to drag out those who may not be inclined to submit feedback - after all, 25% is a very big number for gen speeds - I do know BHVR is aware that players will voice their dissent for systems that do not work, no matter how small the group is. Key examples of this are the Xeno and Artist changes - Xeno was nerfed heavily in the PTB, and Xeno players rallied the rest of the community to fight for their Queen and her Morphs; while the Artist add-on changes were cancelled due to a small group of Artist players who were dedicated to pointing out the exact numbers of how the add-on changes were all nerfs or sidegrades that would see little use.
I do think a majority of the changes were in genuine interest of figuring out a anti-slug and anti-tunnel system. I also think some things may have been… politely and purposefully omitted:
- Based on Mandy's response about Twins when asked about anti-slugging, I don't think Twins were ignored in the search for a anti-slug. I do believe we may see new Twins changes within time to work with the anti-slug system, but they were omitted from this update to see how anti-slug effects all killers, and will evolve to narrower and narrower scopes until the massive Twins shaped elephant in the room is safely and casually walked through the mousehole in the wall.
- The interaction with moris is another thing that I think falls into the "narrower and narrower scope" issue, as multiple killers have the mini-moris basekit now. This is also seen in the effect of moris not counting for the anti-tunnel system. The change of scope might be as simple as "mori at death hook is now basekit," or maybe we'll get a sick Trapper rework with a mini-mori. However, RBTs are definitely a oversight. There's nothing like them in the game.
The other changes, such as the basekit UB and the mini-OTR, are akin to the anti-slug system they've tested multiple times (see Twins rework and the cancelled Chaos Shuffle) and have failed to implement due to the issues it provides for most killers. Instead of continuing to waffle about with a system that has so many gears and moving parts to test, it is more beneficial to release part of the system as a sneak peek, get a idea of what parts can be kept in the main game for player comfort (ex: a lot of feedback on the anti-slug has praised the auto-recovering, and a lot of feedback on the anti-tunnel has praised Elusive becoming a keyword), and what pain points there specifically are for the killers most effected by the changes, and then release the full adjusted system with changes to the most effected parties. Basically, BHVR does not have a 4k hour Twins one trick on payroll, and they don't have a Wraith who has tunneled every single match since 2016, so they've sent the anti-slug and anti-tunnel systems out like Dorothy out of Munchkinland.
This kinda got longer than I had originally anticipated. Anyways, tl;dr: i love how schizophrenic this community is it reminds me of being around people who believed that mk ultra still existed in 2010
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997530#Comment_3997530
Eating a 1 second longer stun duration doesnt matter unless your intention is to immediately continue chasing the survivor (the thing the perk is supposed to discourage).
To start, yes, it does matter for every single killer. Even comparing bottom tiers, a 5 second stun will mean less to a Skull Merchant than it will to a Hag, due to the fact that she can gain haste and the survivor can go broken during the stun. That 5 second stun may mean multiple blown traps for the Hag when she cannot teleport to punish them, or may mean wasting precious seconds of power for Michael. For killers like Kaneki and Nurse, the difference between the two is that Nurse now needs to possibly waste a fatigue to catch up, while Kaneki loses absolutely nothing by catching up to the survivor. Reasonings like this can be found across the entire roster, which is why it's balanced to 4 seconds currently (and could possibly be pushed down to 3 seconds to shrink the gap even further, but as it currently is, it's probably fine).
Secondly, DS is not a get out of chase free card, it is a perk that is meant to keep you safe until you can get back to the objective. To use a common example from the last few days; if you are blind to the trap under your foot, am I, the Trapper who's the next loop over, meant to ignore you because you might have DS? No, it's in my best interest to actually eat that DS so you cannot use it again and remain unsafe for the rest of the match. You're still safe to get back to the objective due to the 4 second stun, but I also know now that you do not have DS to use again (and if you weren't the Obsession, it also reveals that the Obsession has either Mettle of Man, Sole Survivor, or DS as well) and therefore will not be safe until healed moving forward. I can even choose to chase you again and make you unsafe again, and you can choose to walk back into a different trap!
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3995175#Comment_3995175
Why should the anti-tunnel perk be balanced around making sure its not too costly for the killer to continue tunneling?
Because sometimes you're not tunneling when it happens to you. It's a minute long timer post-unhook, which, accounting for the time it takes for someone to come in and unhook, is plenty of time to have won a chase and hooked someone else. Especially on snowball killers like Oni, Twins, and Plague.
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I have confirmed with Deerstalker that this does not occur for the killer, only the survivor. The survivor was able to see me for the entirety of this video, where I replicate the bug again, but I cannot see him.
https://youtu.be/P1MSjN4Fa70 -
Finally have a video of this occurring, in the later half of this video:
https://youtu.be/P1MSjN4Fa70 -
i love how schizophrenic this community is it reminds me of my time with people who believed mk ultra still existed in 2010
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@gerolau said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996696#Comment_3996696
I would also like to note the pyramid screenshot is mine and im the user who was playing as james undertale. He cannot physically get a relevant log for this match at the moment because it is not his. I have never pulled a log before and if they insist i will when i get home. I also thought logs were just in match content and that sending a log might not help as this is a lobby bug. Yoichidslip is usually very thorough in his bug reporting, hence why he elected to post this for me.
Also this, and awucawd :3 is a different Steam account, but I should be able to get the files for it because I also own that PC.
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@Birken13 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996713#Comment_3996713
I said this in a post:
Bug reports work better on the support site than the forums. On the forums they usually only ask for that one file, but on the support site they want every file in the folder.
You fill out a quick automated form, then a support agent replies, sometimes within hours or a couple of days.
The nice part is they always confirm by thanking you, repeating your report details, and letting you know they’ll look into it. Unlike the forums, you know for sure your report has been seen.
So basically it's better to report bugs on the support site instead of the forums.
About the "logs are for the last 10 matches" thing: on the support site, you send all the files in that folder, not just one like you do here on the forums.
That folder includes the backup log files, so it keeps track of older stuff if the DeadByDaylight.log file alone isn’t giving them what they need. Here on the forums, they only ask for the DeadByDaylight.log file.
I’m not sure why, maybe it wouldn’t be good to let others have access to the backup files for some reason.
I figured bug reports via the official form on the support site worked better, but I'm unsure if that's also the proper place for PTB bugs. The backup files probably have some wonky additional information involved involving personal information (probably IP or something) which is why the full folder is only sent to support.
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Can confirm that I also saw this bug occur in this video here by zubatLEL.
https://youtu.be/uJKVfIX8htA -
@NotJared said:
Can confirm this only happens when Knight vaults a window that leads into a drop.
Here are my logs that captured this:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/C8OLDD7BNP0I/deadbydaylight.log
Thanks, bossman. Is there other killers you've tested recently for this, or did you just test Knight?
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@Birken13 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996700#Comment_3996700
That's a separate bug tho? It's not like they always keep track if it's the same person writing on multiple posts (even if they did, you would still be required to send it here also). They are looking at that specific bug when looking at the log, not at this. So sending the log here as well is the only way.
I'm not acting like mod just because I feel like it. But there's many people in this bug report section who are making the whole report process much slower and more complicated than it has to be.
Yes, I am aware that it is a comment for a seperate bug. The point of that mention is not "I'm going to link to another comment in another thread so the mods have to look through it to do their job," it is intended to show that I do have access to the logs and can submit them, but I need further information on if they would help. The logs are for the last 10 matches, of which the match that is supposed to occur with the Knight is the third to last match that would be in those logs if it loaded, but the match never loaded, so does that match that never loaded (therefore, did not occur) count towards the last 10 matches?
edit to tl;dr: basically im trying to confirm im not sending useless information
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@gerolau said:
i must go my guards need me
Come test this bug with me on other killers when you're home.
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@Birken13 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996680#Comment_3996680
I think you should just follow their request. If there would be no point in sending the log, they wouldn't ask for it.
The logs for this is in this thread, so its not a matter of me not being able to send the log, it's a matter of confirming if this bug would appear in the logs if the match never loads because the logs are for your last 10 matches. You're not a moderator, so there's no need to act like this on multiple threads.
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DeadByDaylight.log
You're very lucky that I didn't do any more matches after recording the video.
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@melissayeti said:
Isn't this a thing in the Live servers? Like using Any Means to prevent legion from vaulting in power? Preventing the killer from breaking the pallet? Currently in 2v8 if you're a Scout and use your ability to pick up a pallet Legion can't vault over it.
Yes, this is on Live as well and in 2v8. It prevents any killer that can vault pallets from doing so.
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@Rizzo said:
Could you please attach the logs? Be sure they are taken right after encountering the issue.
To find them:
- Press the Windows Key + R to open the "Run" command.
- In the text box paste the following: %USERPROFILE%\AppData\Local\DeadByDaylight\Saved\Logs
- Click "OK" - this will open your Dead by Daylight Logs folder.
- If it does not open the Dead by Daylight Logs folder, it may mean that when installing Dead by Daylight you chose to save your files somewhere else and will need to check there.
- The file called "DeadByDaylight.log" is your log file
Thank you.
I don't even know if the bug would show up in the log because these matches never loaded.
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Okay, I have tested this out properly, here's the full details:
SUMMARY OF THE ISSUE: When the Krasue kicks a generator in Body form and then switches to Head form, users of Eyes of Belmont and Alert get permanent aura reading on the Krasue until the Head switches back to Body.
PLATFORM: PC, Steam
STEP BY STEP INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW THE ISSUE OCCURED:
- Load into a custom match with a survivor and the Krasue. The survivor must have Eyes of Belmont and Alert.
- Have the survivor work on a generator.
- Have the Krasue kick the generator in Body form, then transform into Head form.
- The survivor should have full aura reading on the Krasue until she transforms back into Body form.
Here's the video in which I tested every combination of actions (simply Head, simply Body, Body kick then change to Head, Head kick then change to Body).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQvqGcoDi08 -
Going to test this in a bit when I can finally get into a match. Did you have any other perks/did she have any specific perks? You can check the match data at this website here.
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This also occurs with the Knight, though, uh, I guess you can't tell from the picture.
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Yup, this is the long time standing "loose clothing despawns" glitch. This occurs on any outfit that has flowing loose fabric, including on killers such as Houndmaster.
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Can confirm that it appears like this outside of custom matches as well.
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This might be intended, as it turns white in Evil Incarnate mode (T3).
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@Sinndica said:
Alright so I gotta say I love the changes, I feel like it's gonna promote a healthier game environment along with potentially fixing this games MMR in the process.
The Anti-Slugging Changes
I'm a huge fan of this change because now instead of killers playing in a braindead toxic way, they actually have to strategically slug since now after 90 seconds survivors can get themselves back up.
The Anti-Tunneling Changes
I'm also a huge fan of this as both a survivor and a killer player, because I believe that tunneling is a no-skill move. Anyone can tunnel, so I'm glad that they have invented a way to where both survivors and killers both benefit off of this. Now I understand tho that they punishment for tunneling is extreme but that's because it needs to be, for again tunneling in a lot of players eyes is toxic.
How do I think it'll help this games MMR?
Well since now the braindead toxic playstyles are now out, people who are actually good at killer will now be where they need to be without the "leaderboards" being oversaturated with people who technically shouldn't be up there to begin with. Plus these changes may help incentivize players to actually try and improve on their skills.
Conclusion
Now before some of you freak out in the comment section, I understand that some Killers are gonna be harder to win with for they somewhat relied on these toxic ways of playing because of their "bad kits" (for example The Trapper). I also acknowledge that this upcoming update feels very Killer targeted but that's because it is, for these changes honestly need to happen in my opinion for it was just a toxic and unfun way to play for most. But look at it in the long run, if BHVR is actually serious about making good changes to the game, then maybe all the Killers that have been "forgotten" might get fixed to accommodate these changes in the future. Anyways that's my take ✌️First and foremost, this post is probably going to get moved to the proper subforum, so don't freak out if it vanishes.
In regards to voicing opinions and suggestions, I am going to be refering to a thread I made on the PTB Feedback subforum a few times here just for changes I think should be made, in which the intention is to ask OP if he thinks those changes would break the enjoyment he derives from the update. Feel free to read it in full or not. Let's break down these sections now...
- I do feel pretty good about the anti-slug change, but there is some caveats I think should be added. As stated in my linked post, I do believe the post-90 second timer of 34 seconds (or less with anti-slug perks) should be removed as it eliminates the ability to strategically slug, like what is mentioned in the original post. The situations in which I've found the anti-slug to be useful is in slug for 4k situations, but I have also utilized it in a playing for a save situation and found it a bit too OP in that scenario.
- For anti-tunnel, number changes are in order for sure, and the penalties need to be removed from this update and reworked. The gen block system triggers at all times of the match, when it only really should be a concern in the first few hooks, and the 25% gen speed is both incredibly easy to avoid and provides zero benefit if 6 hooks fly by at 4 or 5 gens remaining, like they do for higher tier killers. The penalties are equally too harsh for lower tier killers and too difficult to trigger on higher tier ones, and this needs to be taken into account for balancing it going forward.
- I do also elaborate on it more in the thread linked, but when I say numbers need to be tweaked, I do also include survivor numbers in those changes. Survivors benefit a bit too heavily in this system, as 30 seconds of Haste, Endurance, and Elusive is a Lot to handle at once. I think this should be reduced to 10 seconds.
- MMR is getting a full, heavy handed rework in the future so these changes likely will not do anything in the grand scheme of MMR. Having higher MMR also does not grant you any additional bonuses to your killer, it just means you played well in a bunch of matches leading up to that point. These play styles also still exist and will still get 4ks, it just is harder to do for lower tier killers.
- I have seen multiple people also state your end point about getting additional buffs for weaker killers, which I think a majority of people would agree with. Hope that system stays and comes to live, just because I want to shrink the gap between Nurses and Hags.
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I anticipate this being another Kaneki situation if there's no nerfs, in which players are blind to the killer being incredibly strong until live, and then it'll become "They didn't listen to feedback!" because the majority of players found out she was strong and easy to learn.
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This also occurs for Furtive Chase, Make Your Choice, Devour Hope, and Floods of Rage.
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Iridescent Tuft of Hair retains old Myers.
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Reboot the game, Wraith/David should auto unlock if he hasn't yet - at least that's the fix I'm hearing of.
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@あおぞらふらみん said:
I would like to make some suggestions for the next version 9.20 update, so I am posting this.
If you posted images, they didn't load, and same with text in the comment. Common bug, no sweat. Mind reposting?
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@YamamuraVideoRentals said:
Or they can just run a hatch offering + no way out.
He's talking about adept challenges, so this isn't possible for anyone but Trickster (or Springtrap with Haywire after 80%).
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I'm gonna say it, this subforum would be better if it had a template like Bug Reports does.
@PetTheDoggo said:
Anything specific?
I like most of their changes, but depends on specific numbers tho.
Basekit tenacity is my main issue, but rest needs to be at least tested imo.I think basekit mini-Tenacity (there's no way they upped crawl speed by 50%) is fine, just because it doesn't change anything about the situation. The main issue that comes with it is crawling to pallet to force Conviction or Flip Flopped Power Struggle, but if you were already intending to do it, you likely brought a build that lets you do it anyways.
I think the other major points are the anti-tunnel punishments, but I have also seen some small things with the anti-slug and Elusive stuff that I liked the feedback for.
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Tenacity will be getting changes, so hold onto your thoughts on that first point until we see the changes. If it doesn't change TOO much, then yes, either revert the change to move while healing (I think passive recovery is still a good thing, I have lost multiple games in the last 48 hours because people did not recover themselves once it became obvious they were being slugged) or force a serious change to Tenacity. Otherwise, I think a majority of people agree!
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One thing I'd like to point out - I believe since Pyramid Head's rework, cages now trigger any perks that are active after unhooking. Don't cite me on this, though, as I may be getting it confused with cage haste/endurance.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990911#Comment_3990911
No, my objective isn't to stop survivors from doing their objective. My objective is to kill three or more survivors.
Generators are a resource, not an objective. Regressing generators is to simply slow down the survivor objective so that I have more time to complete my own.
Killing them is stopping them. It achieves the same goal.
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@coldflame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990916#Comment_3990916
If a Survivor is left in the Dying State for a total of 90 seconds during a match, they gain the ability to pick themselves up after fully recovering.
emphasis mine
'gain the ability' implies permanence in the game's parlance
Grants/gives the ability is not used strictly for permanent effects, though? When used for basekit abilities (see killers like Dracula and Vecna) and certain perks like Apocolyptic Ingenuity, it goes on cooldown or turns off until the pre-requisites are met again. I do know not everything does - notably Devour Hope - but it is not end all be all on permanence.
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I personally think Killer Instinct should not be suppressed, as Killer Instinct is not suppressed by anything - using OP's Legion example, you can get KI on people in lockers. Fingers crossed this gets changed.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990906#Comment_3990906
It's infinite though. Once you've been downed for 90 seconds, you can pick yourself up for the rest of the match. You don't need to be downed for another 90 seconds.
There is nowhere in the dev notes where it says its infinite after being achieved, so I'm not too sure you're correct on this. I do see the implied wording of the 90 seconds being possibly over multiple sluggings, but it may just be a poor wording issue. We'll come back to this discussion on Tuesday.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990703#Comment_3990703
Oh, so you agree that Corrupt Intervention and most gen regression perks should be basekit, then?
Corrupt shpuld be basekit and still exist as is, because it would be immensely funny to block all but one generator. However, survivors doing the objective or bringing builds to do the objective is not bad design. Slugging isn't even bad design in its use cases, its when it goes outside of those use cases that it gets difficult and must be played around.
Basically, survivors are going to do their objective, and your objective is to prevent that. They can bring perks to speed up the objective (gen rush) or slow you down (chase perks), and you can bring perks to slow their objective down (gen regression) or speed up yours (chase perks). This will never change.
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@coldflame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990902#Comment_3990902
what does this have to do with the thread topic? you can go back and forth about the changes elsewhere
Well, you asked and I gave you a answer. Expo isn't basekit, Tenacity is going to be made partial basekit. Slugging still exists, and can be repeated on a 90 second timer. Either slug them all again or clean up faster.
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Expo isn't basekit. Slugging still exists, you just can't count on it winning you the game if you take too long to clean it up.
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Will you be listing all 20 or do we need to guess?
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Gonna go through this piece by piece…
- I agree with your opinion about pausing the timer while other survivors are being carried. I also think it should be slowed when other survivors are within 12 meters, maybe 8, due to the fact that they can be saved in that situation.
- Killers now have a weaker version of BBQ and Chili basekit that shows the survivors you've hooked less than or equal to the person you just hooked. You'll get information for roughly every single hook that you perform.
- This point is directly untrue, as Elusive turns off with conspicuous actions and will almost certainly have the same 10 second timer used for the basekit haste and endurance effect, unless you're running OTR (in which, like the endurance, its buffed to 80 seconds). You'll never reach endgame with perma-unhook Elusive, anyways.
- The negating use of Obsession perks only applies to Dark Devotion, as Wretched Fate and Dying Light do very little for the Obsession (Dying Light even BUFFS the Obsession), and every other killer Obsession perk (minus one - Remember Me) switches the Obsession, which falls in line with the line of thinking for anti-tunnel. Remember Me's best partner is No Way Out, which requires you to hook every single survivor anyways, and already disincentivizes tunnelling due to the fact that you have to hit the Obsession 5 times - meaning they have to get healed at some point before you can attack them again.
- Survivors gain bonuses if killers continue to tunnel, but killers do get additional buffs if they do not tunnel, including mini-Pop, haste, and again, mini-Chili. Read previous point for why the Obsession perk thing actually means nothing.
- If a survivor is killed before the 6th hook, then yes, it stops the regression or blocking. You can kill at the 7th hook, which means that if you hook a survivor first, third, and then mori them after the 6th hook, you don't get this effect.
- These are buffs in hopes of allowing people to play weaker killers. Base kit regression and aura reading allows those weaker killers to free up slots in their kits to put other things that may be useful. I do know I'm very happy to have my Surge back on Michael in place of Pop.
- Combining all your Michael points into one, as someone who plays him and Billy (another OHKO dash killer), I don't feel like they're very similar at all! Michael has OHKO Demo Shred now, which greatly increases his ability to outplay loops without bloodlust or having to leave the chase. I assume, much like Oni, his Evil Incarnate mode will be triggered on command, so there will still be all the fun of popping T3 behind a survivor and lunging directly at them for the down. tl;dr on this: Michael is actually more like Demo and Oni now, and it's really nice without changing anything of what makes Michael enjoyable.
- The only perk that is becoming basekit is a reduced version of OTR's lack of grunts, blood, scratch marks, and aura reading. A bunch of perks are getting changed, though.
While I think parts of the anti-tunnelling changes will not go live (the 6 hook requirement for killing as well as its downside, and the survivor buffs to gen speeds), I do think a lot of this is actually good for the game.
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@Coffee2Go said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990264#Comment_3990264
Yeah honestly 90s is plenty to find and located and down a survivor, worst case scenario u chase for a while but that person that just got up only managed to only now get heals, find an item and work on gen and as soon as that happens it will refresh cycle u get a down on new person and hook and get rewarded.
Then you can go back to the one that was 1st hooked if players really want that one person dead and gone lol
I also did just edit the original comment to illustrate that it would logically be more than 90 seconds in average play, and how that flow would sort of look.
Really, all I feel like the changes to unhooks are actually anti-farm hooking changes, as its become considerably more common to immediately go rushing that unhook before the killer leaves the area. Now, in order to not get sucked into the positive feedback loop of "unhook in face, get stabbed and hooked so he has more pressure," you do have to wait a little bit. If only they make base kit Reassurance for when people are chasing around the hook to dis-incentivize proxy camping next.
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@Coffee2Go said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990247#Comment_3990247
Thats only loophole but easy thing is to down them, it wastes 90 seconds, allows u to just play normally.
It practically lets u have a temp 3v1 for 90 seconds.
But my guess is they will find a way to fix this by allowing to hook them once 90 seconds pass by.
Without any penalties
Why is everyone acting like it takes 90 seconds to find and hook a survivor? This is what's confusing me the most about all of this. Walk to a generator, use any of your killer's many ways to gain information or cross the map quickly, use a aura reading perk, vaguely remember where the mini-Chili showed a survivor and search there if it really was not all that long ago. Survivors stopped playing for stealth ages ago, you will find one.
edit: sorry, its actually more than 90 seconds, as you have to hook the original survivor, not get immediately farmed (in which you do find another survivor to hook), wait for the unhook, run into the original survivor, slug them, and then the 90 second timer starts
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@angel_pellegrino said:
One time I was playing Pinhead on RPD, and an injured Sable literally got right off the hook and went and got the box. And she was literally death hook. In that kind of situation, what was I suppose to do, just let her solve the box with impunity because she was making a terrible play? I know that some killers do run back to hook and proxy camp and all those things. But there are yeah certainly situations where survivors get opportunistically tunneled for play like a toddler with a controller made of playdough.
To Be Fair, its a conspicuous action to work on the box, so you can just walk up and hit her to take the box back. What happens after that point is that you eat the missed DMS and go hook someone else after the fact to turn the regression back on.
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@Coffee2Go said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990231#Comment_3990231
It will most likely be 5%, generally speaking its a blessing to not run PWYF, it probably can stack on top but whats the point since for me 5% is really plenty to travel the map.
I was just saying 10% for like final 4th unique hook and being very briefly but unrealistic XD
10% is wholly unrealistic but I love to imagine fully juiced up Hag running across the map with Waterlogged Shoe at 125% for no good reason and it makes me smile.
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@Coffee2Go said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990217#Comment_3990217
Im going to assume it will be a procedural increase of haste and maybe capping it to what PWYF caps at?
Or even if its a base 5% or 10% thats still great until u get to the location BBQ just marked after the hook.
And pop i think the value will probably remain same as current one until changes come through after 2 to 4 weeks of PTB and testing.
Generally speaking 15% - 20% of pop is good enough for me if i play fair and correct and get unique hooks.
BBW will be the biggest value here for all players who play killers and now technically speaking anyone who posts here on forums saying that they cant find the survivors is either playing againts cordinated teams, or is just generally playing poorly (no offense to anyone).
Turn those haste numbers way lower, buddy. 15% is just about what Clown gets with one bottle, and he's currently oppressive due to how easy it is for him to hit that haste. I would say at most 5% haste, to prevent speed demons like Clown, Springtrap, and (HOPEFULLY) the new Michael from getting too oppressive.
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In another thread, Mandy did say there needed to be much more than a number tweak on Twins to make them fit this new system. I assume the same is for Sadako, Pig, and the faster death hook mori trio, or perhaps "mini-moris" don't trigger this system... somehow?
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@Coffee2Go said:
Guys listen to the @UnicornMedal
And also make sure to read through the lines.
There will be BBQ & Chilli allowing you to briefly see your next victims as a killer aka survivors.
This will allow you to locate survivor B C D
I am sure that devs are aware and they stated in the dev notes there are perk adjustments coming as well to this too as a follow up so survivors cant rely on Distortion, shadow step, and other similar perks to hide aura from BBQ.
This will be a baseline alright that means baseline is something that is there and you cant really do anything except hide in locker.
Out of all outcomes the only method i can see players use is find a locker in time which is again something that in solo q players wont be using much not all 3 at least.
There will still be SWFs that will be cordinated and can talk and time hiding in locker to avoid being spotted.
Now thats where other perks come in play such as DMS and other slow downs that punish players for all hiding and not doing objective or letting go off the gen.
Dont forget there are variety of killer perks in the game.
To be fair, there's also a mention of a new status effect that gives the same effect as Distortion, Shadow Step, OTR, etc, as well as specifically mentioning that a bunch of the survivor perk updates will be to add that keyword to them. Those perks will still be used to counter this, since there's no mention that the mini-Chili is a universal aura (the best example I have is Springtrap when getting revealed by a camera - even in Undetectable he is visible to all survivors). However, the difference between OTR, lockers, and unhook Elusive or stuff like Shadow Step or Distortion (or any of the perks that have part of Elusive, like Deception or Come and Get Me!) have specific requirements to activate it.
The perks I'm anticipating changes on, if not this patch then next, are more than likely:
- OTR, to just outright list that it increases your base Elusive to 80 seconds, since that's what OTR does
- Come and Get Me! will likely get a extension on the unhooked's Elusive status when this perk is used, from the likely 10 seconds to 15 or 20 to synergize with Babysitter/BT, and give this perk additional use cases. If Come and Get Me! does not get this buff, then Babysitter absolutely will.
- Plot Twist will get this eventually, but only after a Deerstalker rework, as Elusive should logically work for survivors seeing each other's aura. This fixes Plot Twist's biggest issue, which is other survivors seeing you go down and rushing to get you when you're Plot Twisting.
- ######### it. Low Profile will get Elusive for 90 seconds. The perk is useless now, and will still be useless after this change.
- Shadow Step will just switch to giving Elusive while in the boon zone and 3 seconds after leaving, like Dark Theory's haste.
- Distortion will give immediate Elusive when your aura is attempted to be read, for 12 seconds.
- I'm feeling ballsy enough to also say that Deception, Parental Guidance, and Self-Preservation will also get it, but Lucky Break, Lucky Star, and Toughen Up will not get it.