TheSingleQuentinMain
TheSingleQuentinMain
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@EllenRipleyMain101 said:
I know there has been billions of forums talking about this but we really need to stop getting at each other's throats for things the developers add to the game that fuels the fire. I need to also mention first that I'm not a killer or survivor main, I play both having thousands of hours of experiences in both sides so I believe I have a say when talking about "us vs them" arguments.
First and foremost, pallet density, already a majority of killers are venting their frustrations (me including) and purely survivor mains are acting like their experts of stranger's experiences and saying "your argument is invalid cus it's an echo chamber" which ironically is them in an echo chamber. But at the same time I see why survivors are frustrated as they are going into matches like it's the last tournament match that'll judge them like it's a life or death situation after facing a tunneling ghoul, Krasue, blight, whatever the killer is playing to secure wins. But they ignore the fact that there are many other killers who play their mains because they like them such as myself when I main purely Springtrap and Xenomorph (occasionally Dracula since it's the spooky season) that also aren't these A or S tier gods that can eliminate teams with quad slowdown and competent knowledge of that killer.
It causes both sides to create so many forums and discussions on why their side is miserable and the other side needs to be severely kneecapped so they can secure an easy win (not everyone). We forget the other side is human and most of the time want to play this game casually or for fun and we start telling each other to straight up stop existing in this world and their families need to be put down which has happened way more often than it should be. I wish that a good majority of us can put down our machetes and chainsaws and actually come together and express why our side is miserable without denying our struggles and we bring this to BHVR so they can for once understand that we are not happy and we need something to change that can benefit both sides and bring back that feeling of horror that was once present in the game.
TL;DR the new patch has caused both sides to play miserably and we blame each other for causing the problems when it's actually developer incompetence that is causing the issues that plague this game.
I totally agree the them versus us is a problem, and we need to, for a lack of better word, depolarize. But, I also feel like saying it's the devs incompetence is going back to the square one, where we pick a group that's the fault of everything. The devs are trying to cater to two groups, with the very loud and angry people seemingly representing the majority of either group. In reality, I don't think the loud angry people make up most the players on either side, but they're the ones devs hear the most from.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
Selfcare on my teammates…
As a killer, I honestly hate self care, just because of how much it helps me. It doesn't feel earned when I win from this perk.
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@Clevarz said:
What's a perk that's not really that strong or used often that you still hate regardless it can be any perk survivor or killer
Flip flop. It's a perk that directly incentivizes long term slugging. (Short term by comparison being slugging to prevent sabo/pallet/flashy saves.)
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@Blaconia said:
Background: 6.5k hours including 10k games as survivor, including many solo games, and 5k killer games. I'm not the casual player the 9.2.0 PTB was aimed at, but I agree there are issues with the survivor experience (9.2.0 was not the solution).
Tunneling and slugging is made worse by:
- Solo queue survivor
- S tier killers (think Billy, Blight, Nurse) or killers uniquely good at slugging or tunneling (think Twins)
- Killer/surv perks that either: reward/encourage tunneling/slugging; punish killers for splitting hooks; or are incredibly strong whether or not the killer tunnels.
If you want to "solve" tunneling and slugging, you should improve on these issues first. The 9.2.0 PTB was a clunky bandaid that:
- Didn't help that much against S tiers (the ones survs would need it most against)
- Was confusing, ask a casual player when gens would block or when survs would get a repair boost
- Was too easy to use offensively, often rewarding bad gameplay like running into the killer when death hook.
Summary of suggested improvements
- Bring solo surv closer to swf surv - e.g. see perks and anticamp progress of teammates, a ping system/comm wheel ("I'll unhook", "Heal me please.") and even an ingame voice chat.
- Give unhooked survs immunity to powers (not M1s) and no collision for 10 seconds (disabled endgame).
- Nerf S tiers, either in general or in situations where tunneling/slugging is happening.
- (If you want a hard anti-tunnel mechanic) When rehooking a survivor with no one else inbetween, make their hook stage 20 seconds longer (disabled endgame).
- Redesign killer and survivor perks to reward the killer splitting pressure and/or punish for tunneling.
Minimise confusing band-aid mechanics and allow players to make meaningful/impactful decisions that vary from game to game. Having to think about strategy beyond "unga bunga 1v1s the whole match" is good! Examples include: Who gets the unhook? Where do we position the tunnel out to delay their death? Do I unhook instantly vs billy/oni to guarantee safe unhook or wait the full hook duration to delay their tunnel out?
This PTB removed options and decisions on both sides, making the game less interesting. Other games will punish me if I make a mistake and reward me for playing well, but this PTB handheld survivors over a safety net to protect them from any mistakes. The tunneling punishments are particularly egregious.
I also think slapping a basekit perk on every problem is confusing and lazy.
Solo Survivor
Buff solo surv up to swf. Role strength in order is usually SWF Surv > Killer > Solo Surv, and I've personally noticed almost a 20% difference in escape rate between playing in a swf and solo.
- Let me see my teammates perks. The very worst SWFs can communicate their perks but solo survivors are left clueless. I want to know if the Ace rushing to the unhook has Deliverance/We'll Make It or maybe I want them to know I have BT/Babysitter and should unhook. I once fought with a Jeff because we both had Autodidact and wanted to heal each other first, and we didn't know.
- Let me see anti-camp progress. If it's ticking up I know the killer is camping, and if it's full I know I can just do gens and let them sit on hook for the full timer. Again, even bad SWFs can communicate this info very easily.
- Add a ping system or comm wheel. The MOST frustrating thing in this game is wanting something to happen in solo queue, but being unable to communicate it. Useful pings could be "Killer nearby", "Let's split up!", "Stick together".
- Add voice chat in game.
These ideas bridge gaps in INFORMATION that even bad SWFs can communicate, often resulting in more efficient gameplay but only if the survivors have the skills to follow up with well executed play. In contrast, the PTB changes were brain-off and free.
Anti Tunnel
I think playing around tunneling makes the game more interesting from a macro POV, but usually feels worse in solo queue vs S tiers bringing strong perks like Pain Res.
In PTB, anti-tunnel was too punishing for killer and too easy to use offensively, often rewarding terrible survivor gameplay like running into the killer off death hook. Just watch this minute from Hens' showcase:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2557897625?t=3h53m3s
Survivors should lose collision and be immune to survivor powers (not M1s) for 10 seconds off hook. This removes offensive BT bodyblocking and certain killers being able to use their powers to tunnel off hook without hurting M1s too much. Examples coming to mind are Dracula holding hellfire at hook, Unknown UVX, and Huntress double taps.
S tiers in general should also probably just be nerfed - no one really complains about a Doctor tunneling, it's always a Billy, Blight, Kaneki etc - aka high mobility and/or strong chase power.
If you want a hard basekit anti-tunnel - if someone gets 1st and 2nd hooked with no one else in between give them a 20 second longer hook stage. This is a stronger anti-tunnel because survivors are actually immune on hook for a full gen timer, and it can't be used offensively.
Anti Slug
99% of the time when I've had problems with slugging, I was solo queue and the killer had knockout, was playing an S tier like Billy/Blight or playing a uniquely good slugger like Twins and Singularity. Improve solo queue information (above) and tweak killer specific issues before introducing clunky basekit anti-slug.
Some killer specific tweaks include:
- Billy/Blight - Debuff when 2 or more slugs that reduces power recovery or depletes overdrive faster
- Singularity - lose slipstreamed when downed
- Twins - I don't know, whoever fixes this deserves a Nobel Peace Prize.
I think a "notorious slugger" that's in a good spot is Oni - his design rewards more power when hooking, takes some power charge when downing, and also encourages him to pick someone up to stop his power, lest he lose all his power.
Otherwise, slugging doesn't feel like a big issue but on the flip side, sometimes you get forced to slug thanks to perks like Flip Flop, BGP, DS, Breakdown (or in PTB, the anti-tunnel punishments).
Please never add basekit tenacity. It's too strong and it removes an interesting decision survivors have to make between recovering or crawling to a pallet/open for a save.
Perk Changes
The above issues are driven by perks. Look at Knock Out as a horror story and a success story. Pre nerf, it was too good for slugging (all of the Slug Merchant complaints were driven by Knockout and her undetectable btw) in a way that uniquely punished solo survivors, and now post nerf: slugging is significantly harder without affecting the average game that didn't have knock out, and without providing another offensive tool for free.
Many killer perks should be reworked to reward splitting pressure and be less effective when tunneling someone out. I often hear people say "oh I need these slowdowns for pressure" or "oh I need to tunnel someone out for pressure", the core issue is you can do both. A common scenario is an S tier (or really anyone) tunnels some solo surv out and then plays the chillest 3v1 game of their life with perks like Pain Res DMS Eruption.
In other words, I want perks to force people to make a decision between tunneling someone out or getting maximum value from their perks. NOT BOTH.
Ideas, counterbuff where necessary:
- Pain Res should deactivate when a survivor dies.
- Ruin should be 150% but decrease to 100% when a survivor dies.
- DMS should not activate if hooking someone twice in a row.
- Grim Embrace should deactivate when a survivor dies.
- No Way Out no longer gives stacks once a survivor dies.
- Dying Light rework. Give ALL survivors a 3% slowdown stack when hooking a different person. Remove 2 stacks if hooking someone twice in a row. No longer gains stacks once a survivor dies. Remove obsession aspect (and its buffs).
Survivor perks could also be buffed and nerfed in a similar manner.
- Deliverance is an S tier perk that punishes you for spreading your hooks and is best countered by ignoring the unhooker and tunneling out the unhook. Please rework this perk.
- Desperate Measures should also buff based on dead survivors.
- Lightweight, Self Preservation, Dance With Me could all last longer when on death hook/being tunneled.
- This Is Not Happening - make it an anti tunnel perk (because everyone has access to it).
Sorry for the novel, thank you if you got this far.
Can't speak for every killer main, but I think this was good. Singularity is one of my three most played killers, and not everyone would agree but I think removing the slipstream when downed is good.
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Statistically, yes. (60% kill rates) but that's something where since there are 4 survivors, and survivors rely on each other, one persons mistakes hurt everyones.
As long as survivors are able to help each other, they also need to pay for each others mistakes, otherwise they only benifet from each other.
If the game was 4 killers vs 4 survivors, than I'd say expecting around 50% kill rates is more reasonable, because both sides can get screwed by mistakes/misplays.
This all said, that's not to say none of the things killers can do to win are unfair, or shouldn't be reworked. I'm just saying the win rate should be skewed in favor of whichever side of an asymertical game has fewer players.
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@UndeddJester said:
So 2v8 has finally come to a close, and I wasn't too sure on the Legion changes when they were proposed, so I left it as long as possible to gather data.
After playing as many games as I could, overall I would say while Legion wasn't weak in any way shape or form… they didn't seem quite as oppressive as they were in previous iterations. I don't tend to play Legion in 2v8 (and I dind't get a chance to play him at all this time), so I'm not exactly sure what the main difference was from their end, but if I were to guess:
- Dropping hits from 8 to 6 for a down meant that Legions maximum potential damage is reduced, and Legion is at their easiest to manage/counter while early on in their feral frenzy. In previous versions, if they got 6 hits, they were so fast that hits 7 and 8 were basically guaranteed, so they could hit and slow down an additional 2 survivors and then get their down, whereas now they only get a down and their maximum effectiveness is reduced.
- The Feral Frenzy duration of 12s → 11s seems to have made a pretty significant impact, as it plays into all aspects of Legion's play. The shorter duration means their reach is shorter, wich in turn also means they can't linger as long at pallets and have to swing. This is much more helpful in granting more changes to stun them out of power.
Obviously the Legion/Oni comp is very strong still (I'm still not sure why Oni has so many add-ons and benefits when his power so naturally synergises with this mode), but even with this pairing, I found far more people (including myself) getting out against Legion this time around, and in general Legion didn't feel particularly stronger than any other Killer comps I've played against. Legion/Oni is undeniable strong, but I feel Wraith/Oni is just as deadly.
Maybe players are just playing better against Legion, not sure, but I think Legion is kind of fine in 2v8 now (at least in the context of Legion feels about in line with the other killers on the roster, not the stand out slowdown machine they were before).
How killer/survivor sided 2v8 is in general is beyond the scope of this thread 😅
Yeah, but I'd still say the strongest killer. Don't get me wrong, they made the matches more intense, and that made things more interesting as survivor, but eventually after the 100th game with legion it becomes boring because you feel powerless.
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@Elan said:
→ For each injured survivor, all survivor gets 4 % speed debuff per stack (basekit thana)
→ When the generator is manually kicked or damaged remotely, the regression rate is 0.5ch/s instead of 0.25ch/s (partially basekit call of brine)
→ When two or more survivors work on generators, you see the aura of gen in yellow (basekit discordance)
→ When you hook a survivor, the furthest survivor is revealed to you (basekit alien instinct)
→ When in 16m of completed gen, you have 7 % haste (batteries included basekit)
Opinions?
Respectfully, these have a lot of problems. I think you're gearing towards making killers more capable of handling multiple survivors, instead of purely focusing on removing a survivor, which isn't bad, but these have some unintended consequences:
→Base kit Thana might be balanced on most killers due to it not being impossible to heal, but with killers like Legion, Plague, and I'd argue the Ghoul, healing isn't an option.
→Kicking a generator shouldn't be more valuable than taking off a health state, because losing a health state can be out played. There's no stopping a killer from breaking
→A bigger issue is multiple survivors on different generators, which gets more done faster and is harder to interrupt.
→Alien instinct/Base kit bbq for furthest survivor with the least hooking progress isn't bad IMO.
→Batteries not included I do think actually helps killers who don't three gen which is kind of nice.
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@dreamWarden said:
It doesn't have to do anything, just make it an item you can hold, I really need a bucket
Completely overpowered. Course, that won't stop Behavior from catering to the bucket side, like always.
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@Pulsar said:
How would we feel about ramping up rewards for continuing to hook unique Survivors?
For example if you hook 4 Survivors, with nobody being hooked twice in a row, you get an extra bonus.
Say, arbitrarily, that if you hook 6 Survivors and none of them are hooked twice in a row, you get like 20% Haste until a damage state and 40% percent off a gen plus Killer Instinct instead of aura reading on the lower hooked Survivor (unless you're an S-tier). This isn't going to stack with the normal hook bonus, but rather replace it for that 6th hook, in this example.
Haven't put a huge amount of thought into it. Just thought that people should be more rewarded the longer they stick with not tunneling.
I'm going to be honest, I kind of think that's risky. Speaking as a killer main who follows the "thou shalt not tunnel nor camp" mentality, I like rewarding killers for not tunneling/camping, and I think they should aim for that playstyle. However, this amplifies an issue with all mutliplayer games:
If you're doing good, you're doing great. If you're doing bad, your doing terrible. If I can easily hook all 4 survivors once and trigger grim embrace before the 2nd generator is completed, I tend to be doing great, almost too good for a balanced game. But in the games where there is just 1 survivor who is good enough to avoid me almost non stop, it doesn't matter that the rest of his team is bad, they all do a lot better because I can't trigger embrace, which I kind of need to spend time chasing that one dude who is locked in.
Not complaining about grim embrace, I'm just pointing out the risks of this sort of thing.
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@joeyspeehole said:
I was going to say that not your fault sexy women are wandering off into the fog to tease you, however, you were stalking them… so, I guess fair is fair.
uh…nuh uh! I was just looking at them for murder purposes!
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@bleep275 said:
i have played according to these beta rules for years now. it is not that serious. It will be and adjustment and a learning curve….but that is necessary for the future health of the game. Tunneling isnt necessary, people are just hyper-competitive and desperate for that dopamine boost when you get a win.
I play by the "Thou shalt not tunnel or camp" rules as well, but I'm already running into players exploiting this (intentionally or otherwise.) I was playing PTB as Shape, chasing one of the only survivors not dead on hook. Another survivor who was just unhooked kept taking body blocks to protect there teammate, I tried to down them with M1 so they wouldn't be in my way, but since I was in Evil Incarnate mode, I moried them on accident, and then got punished with the universal gen blocking. I had six hooks btw.
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@jamally093 said:
So I might have a small brain or something but I don't know why people are upset about it. The idea is just saying "hey don't be sweaty and try to spread hooks around" I have played both killer and survivor and I will say I have tunneled once or twice when I was having a bad day. But I don't understand why people are upset about it when basically it's just learn your not gonna get a 4k all the time and a 3k is still technically a win 1k or 0 is a lose and 2 is a tie. So I might be missing something in all this but I really don't understand why so many people are upset with it.
As a killer main, I'm not calling you dumb or flat out in the wrong. Spreading hooks is ideal in this game to me. For a fun DBD game on both sides, I think killers need to not tunnel, but Survivors need to act like the killer will. This way I can chase people of gens, force them to heal up to stay safe, and buy me time to have more chases.
The concern however, is survivors exploiting ant-tunnel mechanics in a way they weren't suppossed to be. In the PTB, I was playing Myers, going for 8 hooks before my first kill, but this one Vee lady kept body blocking me from going after one of the only 2 survivors not dead on hook. I tried to M1 her, but thanks to me being in Evil Incarnate mode, I insta moried her instead. The game then punished me by blocking me from gen kicking for the rest of the trial.
I'm pretty sure this player wanted me to down her so she could use decisive strike, but it's one of many cases where survivors can intentionally exploit a feature meant to counter tunneling in a way it shouldn't.
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@dgbug said:
This poll is anonymous to ensure everyone's privacy.
I don't represent the majority here, but I kind of want to know as little as possible. I like to think of the lore as being, the match itself, the organic story that plays out between survivors choosing whether to go down saving the others, or abandoning everyone to save themselves.
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@Sngfun said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3994359#Comment_3994359
Yeah , but what I am suggesting is that they do the same thing they did with survivor items and add less, easier to learn and more impactful, addons. Honestly She could have realeased with just the purples and iris and I don't think anything important would be lost :/
in that case, yeah I'm kind of on your side.
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@Sngfun said:
Seriously, 7 addons for Flight is insane. Why.
Honestly, when a new killer comes out, I don't think add ons should be remotely top priority. In fact, I kind of think they should treat add ons as, "Okay, some time has passed, and we want to remix a killer's power to add variety, and now that we know how these killers actually stack up in game, here's some new add ons." So on release, they can be crap as far as I care.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989895#Comment_3989895
Dude. Do math. Crossing map from side to side takes 110 % killer about 1.5s longer than 115 % killer. The 5 % difference isn't effective, everything above 10 % is.
I'm not really talking the move speeds, I more so mean, xyz killer can teleport or dash across to catch up. Huntress on the other hand can't, and she's the tiniest bit slower than normal.
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Oh, so do you mean like you use a map token, and then you pick which map specifically you want? Kind of like combining all the map offerings into one, and then you can pick which map you want to go to?
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@blkhat said:
- When a Survivor is hooked, their hook status is hidden from the Killer. When they’re unhooked, there is no notification and their hook status isn’t revealed immediately.
- This is disabled once all generators are completed.
- Unhooked Survivors gain the following effects for a limited time:
- Haste, Endurance, and Elusive (see below) status effects.
- No collision with other players (both Killer and Survivor).
- Immunity to Killer Instinct and sees the Killer’s aura nearby.
- These effects are lost when the affected Survivor perform a Conspicuous Action.
- All these effects (except Haste and Endurance) are disabled once all generators are completed.
- Added a unique effect to the Killer hook state UI that indicates the last Survivor they hooked.
- After completing a “unique hook” (the same Survivor is not hooked consecutively), Killers get the following benefits:
- Bonus damage for the next generator kick.
- Temporary Haste status effect.
- Temporarily reveals Survivors (think basekit BBQ & Chili) that have less or equal hook states to the hooked Survivor.
- These effects are slightly lessened for The Blight, The Dark Lord, The Ghoul, The Hillbilly, and The Nurse.
- These effects are disabled once all generators are completed.
- Added new effects that disincentivize tunneling:
- If a Survivor dies before 6 total hook states, all remaining Survivors gain a repair speed bonus for the rest of the Trial.
- If the Survivor that was last hooked is Sacrificed or Killed, generators cannot be regressed or blocked.
- Added the option to enable or disable these new mechanics in Custom Games.
- Updated several Survivor and Killer perks to account for these changes.
DEV NOTE: It’s no secret that tunneling can be seen as an efficient way to play for Killers. While this can be true, it’s also true that the results of this can be frustrating for Survivors, leading to Trials ending too quickly for some, while leaving others to fend for themselves in a match that is now much more difficult.
The intention here is for both roles to feel the benefits and incentives that come from spreading hook states. On the one end, Survivors have better opportunities to evade and reset after unhooks, while also limiting those tough situations where losing a Survivor too quickly causes things to go south quickly and snowball. On the other end, Killers are able to apply more map pressure to push back against efficient teams, covering ground post-hook and strengthening gen regression.
I'm not against helping either side recover from losing games, I'm not. I'm also really for incentivizing killers to not tunnel, but I think this has to many ways survivors can exploit making one person semi immortal. Think of it like this: Trapping killers have to ignore 1 specific survivor, but that survivor can go around constantly disarming your traps, right in front of your face.
Also, survivors need to be incentivized to not let there teammates die. Like, seriously.
A solution I would like to propose instead: Gen regression is based on how many survivors are alive and able to stop the regression. Gen regression will now equal: 5%+ (4*number of survivors alive)+(2*number of survivors who are not on the hook, in the dying state, or in a cage) It's complicated, but it makes it so gen regression is less effective when there are fewer people to stop it, but more effective when they can.
It obviously won't stop gen blocking or slow down perks, but I still think it's less risky.
- When a Survivor is hooked, their hook status is hidden from the Killer. When they’re unhooked, there is no notification and their hook status isn’t revealed immediately.
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@SadakoSlay said:
In the first 2v8 each killer had unique killer specific abilities that would affect both that killer and the kilelr they would be teaming up with. I personally really liked this and made it so playing each killer felt more unique and affected the combinations of killers even more. I think it'd be really cool if those killer specific abilities could come back.
I liked it too, but a benefit for one killer is a disbenefet for another. If one killer us wraith, and another is legion, you don't want to screw over the legion player by giving them undetectable when nearby. Plus, some killers I don't think needed teamwork type abilities. Trapper I could be down for the haste for teammate thing returning. 3 blink nurse on the other hand, I don't think we need that.
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@Pulsar said:
Pop is better at forcing Killers to move, and making it worth it for them to do so.
PR automatically damages a gen, which is convenient, but it doesn't really encourage the Killer to leave the area. It doesn't give you anything else to do.
True, but I don't think trapper can really make that work, nor huntress or death slinger. If they make it like grim embrace, that almost might work. Plus, the generator might be 5 feet away from the hook, or on the other side of the map, so Pop doesn't always work for that incentive.
A better way might be that after a unique hook, and after a 10 second delay, if the killer is at least 16 meters away from the hooked survivor, all gens suffer a passive 5% slowdown for 20 seconds, as long as you are at least 16 meters away. Kind of like grim embrace but without forcing people off gens. I think this would be better because high mobility killers can't get way more advantage from the pop effect compared to a low mobility killer. -
@ChaosWam said:
People are already going over Sadako so I'll leave that to them.
But I'm going to be vocal over a killer already struggling: Hag.
The survivor you hooked last can just… Ruin your web of traps and if you go after them, you get punished. You can slug them for 90 seconds, sure, but you have to go back and set up again, take another chase, down and hook a second while they're probably already back up and ruining your traps again.
Not sure of a fix either, since I don't play enough Hag to really think of any solutions.Thanks for pointing that out. I hadn't even considered that.
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@Jay_K said:
- If a Survivor dies before 6 total hook states, all remaining Survivors gain a repair speed bonus for the rest of the Trial.
- If the Survivor that was last hooked is Sacrificed or Killed, generators cannot be regressed or blocked.
These 2 things are going to ruin the game for killersBefore anyone wants to comment "just don't tunnel" think about it. Killers are now FORCED to play by the survivor handbook and hand free wins effectively to them.
If you kill a survivor too fast then boom free gen progression for everyone. This means your damned if you do and damned if you don't. you kill someone because its the optimal play at the time then woo you got a kill but now all gens are gonna fly a little faster on top of whatever buffs it already has.
Then the way this reads sais that every time you kill a survivor and you find a gen near by thats nearly complete then uh uh uh you can't regress that gen to hopefully stop it popping meaning you have to just sit and wait for whatever timer BHVR decides to put on this (because in classic form no figures are released) and while your waiting other gens are flying.
Now im not saying that tunneling is fine and i agree with the masses that any killer who goes into a game and hardcore tunnels a survivor needs to maybe find another game to play because clearly this isn't the game for them but i can tell you from experience that sometimes you end up tunneling someone just because its the person you find. Not because you have gone out of your way to hunt them down or because you have gone back to hook to tunnel them. Its just the natural way that game has gone..
On top of this killers can no longer see the hook state of the survivors. So if your not taking notes you could end up tunneling without realizing. Even now I will hook someone and think Damn how are they dead what happened. not realizing i had multi hooked them because im just chasing whoever is around.
So please behaviour you need to do 2 things.Firstly you need to give more information because right now assumptions have to be made, and they are made based on previous changes made
secondly more thought needs to go into anti tunnel because based on the dev update these will really harm killers who don't tunnel intentionally and suffer from survivor induced tunneling.I agree that flat out removing gen regression is bad, especially since this actually encourages survivors to die, like sacrifice themselves. I do think Gen regression should be tied to how many survivors are able to stop the regression, that is alive, and not on the hook or in the dying state.
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@HuskyDogLover said:
When you tunnel a survivor out, it effectively applies a “hidden debuff” to the survivor team: all healing and repair is reduced by about 25% for the rest of the trial. That’s why tunneling has always been so strong; it’s unmatched value, roughly equal to giving the killer two or three extra perk slots.
The big question is whether these new anti-tunneling changes will actually make tunneling obsolete. We don’t have the exact numbers yet, but unless the killer bonuses come close to offsetting that 25% team-wide penalty, the answer is still no.
The update is also a bit unclear. If it isn’t obvious to killers that tunneling is a bad strategy, many will continue to do it. Survivors gaining a repair speed boost isn’t something killers will directly notice, it’s hidden, unless they’ve read the patch notes or someone else explains it to them. And if the benefit isn’t both substantial and visible, tunneling will remain the default strategy.
Removing an entire survivor from the match? The math is obvious. You don't need to read patch notes to understand how that works.My Suggestion:
If a survivor gets tunneled out too early, they should return as a temporary “Shade.” The Shade can’t be targeted or interacted with by the killer, but they can still repair generators and heal teammates for a short duration (around 2 minutes, for example).This would make the mechanic clear and obvious to the killer, while also preventing them from gaining that immediate ~25% pressure advantage the moment a survivor is eliminated.
Another thing you could do is explore options like increased movement speed, repair speed and healing speed for the shade. So that tunneling a survivor can become extremely detrimental for the killer. And you could adjust the numbers depending on how egregious the tunneling was.
I'm speaking as a killer main, so I'm not the most trustworthy. But the idea of a player who can't be killed I think is bad. That's way too risky a mechanic. I'm all for making tunneling/camping/slugging less effective, as I think they make every killer more the same, and they're annoying to fight, but I don't think this is it.
Something to note, it's not about the percentage efficiency, it's doing all those things at once. It's being able to unhook a teammate while another is slugged, and another is being chased.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/454747/last-stand
I feel tha if the stun is 1s longer the perk would be completely fine.
the stun time effects killers differently though. You stun huntress for a second, that's a lot more distance than if you it to Blight. Just something to keep in mind.
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@Ohyakno said:
I don't think adding like ten perks basekit at once was the way to go. Give base unbreakable and work from there.
Kind of agree. Only the 90 second version that they are thinking of implementing right now though. I do think they could still add agency to survivors who are slugged by giving survivors a form of ping information. If in the dying state or on the hook, add the option to press 1 or 2 (the point and come closer buttons) to say "danger near me" or "safe by me", to indicate in solo que the killer is camping or not.
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@Ocevi said:
For several months now we’ve had the new system with a 20% chance of getting the map you want. Personally, I don’t think this change works very well.
My idea would be to replace this system with a map token – an item that lets you pick the map you actually want to play. This way, offerings from maps people don’t really use wouldn’t go to waste, and players could still have meaningful control over where they play. Right now, most of us see offerings as nothing more than clutter in the loadout screen.
With this system, map offerings from all ~30 maps could be removed from the Bloodweb and replaced by a single “map token.” The map selection panel could look similar to the one we already have in custom games, just integrated into public matches.
Another suggestion: if the map you selected with your token doesn’t get chosen for the match, the offering shouldn’t burn. That way players don’t feel punished for using it.
And for those who might say “who even cares?” — well, I do. As a newer player, this change made it really difficult to get the specific maps I need for achievements (like Outbreak Breakout). The current system turns that into pure RNG frustration instead of progress.
When you say item, do you mean like a flashlight/toolbox item, or what do you mean?
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@ragingshadowttv_30 said:
so when are you going to start working on buffing killers perks and quit holding survivors hands? Since your so called war against hackers is a joke and you fail to address the real issue behind your game?
Speaking as a killer main, perks shouldn't really be the source of a killers power, simply because to many killers benifet in ways that are intended. I'm speaking from a point of privilege, because I play higher tier killers like Hillbilly, and Unknown, but perks are not how the game should be balanced.
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@TheGoone said:
Devs have announced the PTB and with it Myers Rework is shown
- Replaced “Evil Within” with two modes that can be toggled with a button press:
Stalker Mode: 4.2m/s movement speed, Undetectable, and can stalk Survivors.Pursuer Mode: 4.6m/s movement speed, 24m Terror Radius, increased vault speed, bonuses to lunge range, break speed, and stun recovery, and cannot stalk Survivors.
- Once the stalk meter is full,
Evil Incarnatemode can be triggered at will, granting the following effects for a limited time (note: Survivors no longer become Exposed):- 4.6m/s movement speed, 40m Terror Radius and an increased vault speed.
- Unlocks Slaughtering Strike ability:
- Hold the power button to charge this ability, reducing movement speed.
- Press the attack button while charging to quickly lunge forward, adjusting your angle as you move. The length of the lunge depends on charge time.
- If a Survivor enters the Killer’s attack range while lunging, they are knocked into the Dying State.
- This ability can also be used to destroy pallets.
- Unlocks the ability to grab and kill or perform a regular Mori on Survivors who would die the next time they are hooked.
- Adjusted some of the mechanics of stalking:
- Removed the limited pool of stalk points per Survivor.
- Reduced stalk range to 32m and removed distance modifier.
- Moving while stalking has increased movement speed but incurs a reduced stalk rate.
- Reworked his add-ons.
What do you think?
I appreciate them listening to player requests such as giving Myers the toggle between tiers 1 and 2. But, I think they are going about it wrong for a couple reasons. For older killers like the Shape and Trapper, they are weak, and just changing the stats isn't enough, but they don't so much need reworks as they do quality of life improvements. Things like making it so Myers can't fat finger into tier 2 or 3, and making trappers traps blend in better to all environments so he's not map dependent. I don't think most killers care about there killer being strong or weak, they care about them being fun.
The new dynamic of switching modes is great, but making it so he's exclusively in stalk mode, or out I think is bad.
- Replaced “Evil Within” with two modes that can be toggled with a button press:
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@TheGoone said:
Devs have shown the PTB and revealed the Anti Slugging changes
- If a Survivor is left in the Dying State for a total of 90 seconds during a match, they gain the ability to pick themselves up after fully recovering.
- Added the option to enable or disable this mechanic in Custom Games.
Note: Perks that enable you to recover from the Dying State - like Boon: Exponential - will continue to function as before, without needing to meet this requirement.
- Gradually increases crawling speed for Survivors who are left in the Dying State.
- Added the ability for Survivors to recover while crawling. Recovery now occurs passively with no need to hold a button.
- Updated several Survivor and Killer perks to account for these changes
What do you think?
Killer main here:
I'm all for making slugging/camping/tunneling less present, but I also think they need to understand somethings. There's three reasons to slug: to gain leverage, to counter sabo/pallet/flashy saves, and to be a jerk. Personally, 10% of the time I slug is for advantage, the remaining 90% is to counter sabo/pallet/flashy save. I'm not saying the devs should remove sabo/pallet/flashy saves. I respect the fact that that's fun for survivors, but I do need the devs to remember slugging is a form of counterplay.
Also, if your going to do this, Flip Flop MUST have the downside of making it so survivors can't pick themselves up like this. I think it's obvious, but if the killer is in a situation where they should be slugging, they shouldn't be punished for it.
- If a Survivor is left in the Dying State for a total of 90 seconds during a match, they gain the ability to pick themselves up after fully recovering.
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@TheGoone said:
Devs revealed PTB and Anti tunnel changes are shown
- When a Survivor is hooked, their hook status is hidden from the Killer. When they’re unhooked, there is no notification and their hook status isn’t revealed immediately.
- This is disabled once all generators are completed.
- Unhooked Survivors gain the following effects for a limited time:
- Haste, Endurance, and Elusive (see below) status effects.
- No collision with other players (both Killer and Survivor).
- Immunity to Killer Instinct and sees the Killer’s aura nearby.
- These effects are lost when the affected Survivor perform a Conspicuous Action.
- All these effects (except Haste and Endurance) are disabled once all generators are completed.
- Added a unique effect to the Killer hook state UI that indicates the last Survivor they hooked.
- After completing a “unique hook” (the same Survivor is not hooked consecutively), Killers get the following benefits:
- Bonus damage for the next generator kick.
- Temporary Haste status effect.
- Temporarily reveals Survivors (think basekit BBQ & Chili) that have less or equal hook states to the hooked Survivor.
- These effects are slightly lessened for The Blight, The Dark Lord, The Ghoul, The Hillbilly, and The Nurse.
- These effects are disabled once all generators are completed.
- Added new effects that disincentivize tunneling:
- If a Survivor dies before 6 total hook states, all remaining Survivors gain a repair speed bonus for the rest of the Trial.
- If the Survivor that was last hooked is Sacrificed or Killed, generators cannot be regressed or blocked.
- Added the option to enable or disable these new mechanics in Custom Games.
- Updated several Survivor and Killer perks to account for these changes.
What do you Think?
As a killer main, I'm not against this. I seriously appreciate the fact that they are compensating for it with some buffs for killers not tunneling. I would say this follows along with Behavior's typical design philosophy of adding new things to solve a problem, instead of removing things, which is typically nice for old players who get new gameplay elements, but very confusing for newer players.
I do think they should keep in mind reasons killers tunnel other than raw advantage, such as:
-Not remembering who you hooked last.
-Trying to prevent a sabo/pallet/flash save. On that note, a shocking number of survivors will try to sabotage the hook, after you go out of your way to hook the one survivor who is not dead on hook.
-Killer specific circumstances that incentivize tunneling. Namely, Trapper can put a trap in a super clever spot, but than a survivor who just got off the hook walks into on accident, on the other side of the map from trapper. If he ignores the trapped survivor, the trap did nothing but slow them down for a second, and it's been disarmed now. Effectively, trapper gets punished for not tunneling in this specific instance.
Edit: Just remembered the thing where the killers aura is revealed when close. That…no. That's gonna be exploited in a swf. That part should not be there.
- When a Survivor is hooked, their hook status is hidden from the Killer. When they’re unhooked, there is no notification and their hook status isn’t revealed immediately.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989194#Comment_3989194
If you mean its alomost impossible to get rid of singularity if you are slipstreamed then you didnt heard about blight who doesnt need to infict slipstream from biopods and just is rushing you down.
Yeah but blight doesn't literally tp to you. I'm not saying blight isn't overpower/singularity is too weak. But Kaneki I think is better at getting you in a dead zone because he doesn't have blights turn restrictions, and the movement is way faster.
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@Abbzy said:
That 3. point is kinda meh tbh there are atleast 15 and maybe more killers which can create dead zones or catch you in them and punish you heavily not just ghoul, blights has restriction but his power is just way better and creates much more dead zones and situations where you get hit and only thing you can do is try doge and hpe he will miss but shoulderfick exist.
I know. Like I said, there are other killers that have that same problem, and speaking as a singularity main, I think singularity is a bigger proponent of this problem. The big difference is the dead zone killers either are set up killers, or they are killers who have a wind up attack that can be dodged.
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@jamally093 said:
What I mean is per generator complete there's supposed to be a repair speed penalty but playing killer and survivor I noticed...it kinda doesn't exist. Playing killer 50% of the time by the time we're half way done on hooks there's maybe 1 generator left now I could be a skill issue but I also noticed on every map most if not all generators are 3 or 4 person. Now I get you can't make the generator penalty permanent then survivor would be a nightmare to play but I noticed if a generator is repaired a hook or two just removes the penalty so it kinda just enters the whole what's the point of the penalty if two hooks removes it. Then again why post this 2v8 stops being fun after 3 days but I would rather play this then deal with ghoul.
I do think this depends heavily on which killer and killer combo your dealing. For what I'll consider the weaker bunch (Deathslinger, Trapper, Ghostface) I think the slow down isn't doing much for, but for my games as mostly Hillbilly, I'm doing pretty good with a kill rate of about, 7/8.
Something to not about this game mode, Tunneling (be it on purpose or on accident, and I'm not judging anyone who does tunnel) is making a difference. As soon 1 person goes down, you can see a fast amount of difference. I think the game should have a new anti-tunnel incentive in place:
After two people have been hooked, hooking a survivor for the first time will add 5% slow down on gen repairs for 5 seconds, + 2 second for every first time hooked person. Not enough to actually incentivize survivors to not protect teammates from tunneling, but enough to slightly compensate killers who are trying to hook people who haven't been hooked before.
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@Linkdouken said:
As Trapper is one of the weaker killers, this is still the case in 2v8.
I feel like for this mode his ability needs a buff.
Here are some options (or your own)
TLDR: Trapper feels discouraged from making creative traps spots and from leaving his traps because he'll need to rearm them.
Solutions:
A. Make Tension springs add on basekit (if a survivor escapes a trap, it rearms after 2 seconds)
B. When a survivor disarms a trap, if you are 24+ meters away, after a three second delay, gain 3% haste for 10 seconds. The delay is to make it so teammates disarming traps doesn't screw over teammates being chased, without a warning window.
C. When an injured survivor steps into a trap, they suffer the mangled status effect till healed (Risky idea, as adding mangled effect leaves the question, "why not add mangled on xyz weak killer," which then has survivors ask, "why not give us xyz, healing buff power." and the arms race begins).
D. Lower trap opacity to 80%, making his traps more hidden on certain maps without grass. This might encourage trappers to put traps in places other than unavoidable choke points.
He kind needs something to encourage more unique placement, because on certain maps (RPD) there are chokepoints that are hard to work around. Meanwhile on more open maps it might be easier to hide the traps, but it's harder to make use of them because survivors have way more routes to go. This kind of encourages a chess merchant type playstyle so you can be close enough to reset all your traps, and relying on consistent, almost unavoidable choke points, instead of placing traps in unique, unexpected spots.
One last thing to note: Trapper in the early game is always super weak, and in the late game is typically a lot stronger. This is all to say, even if Trapper looks weak in the early game, if he sets up for the late game properly, he can be a beast to fight against. It's something to be cautious about when giving him buffs.
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@Khastrx said:
Why were the Guide perk changes just not put on to a new class altogether? Granted the old version was not great… but having more class variety would have been nice. Still waiting on a totem class though…
Honestly, I think it's for the better. Don't trust me too much, I main killer.
However, to me, I think the old Guide class was kind of poor design. You have one person whose design is to make the gens go by faster, but they don't have a chase/survival boost like the other classes (Escapist's sprint burst, Scout's Iron will and Aura reading, Medic's scratch mark suppression when injured). That kind of made it so one person in particular was a really good target to tunnel out, especially since if you hooked them once, they got an ability that made them better at the gen rushing.
I also think the guides skill check boost was a bad idea, as it's both rng, and it's your teammates having fun hitting those great skill checks, not you. This even made it so not tunneling would get punishes a little, because the more people left in the trial, the more the guide's skill check boost would help, and if you tunneled, it wouldn't have been such a help.
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@Emeal said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/T9UU2NYYNR9J/image.png
Please BHVR can we have this pallet at home eh? This parking lot is so useless normally.
Killer main Bias:
I'm okay with adding 1 here, but can we remove 1 of the double pallets from this map. They're not op, there's just to many of that same one.
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@Ramitdown said:
Another member recently posted in the Bug Reporting forum that when a survivor is crouched, The Artist's crows will not trigger killer instinct.
I, like the OP, thought this was a bug. However, the thread has been updated to say that this is not a bug and is working as intended by design - that crouching precludes the proc'ing of killer instinct when a crow passes close enough to a survivor without becoming a swarm.
Would it be possible for someone to clarify whether this is intended by design? It would be interesting to know the rationale. The Artist's crows will trigger killer instinct when passing close enough to a survivor without becoming a swarm when they are: standing, repairing a generator, healing, vaulting, hiding in a locker, on a different floor/elevation (within the limit of distance, of course), blessing/cleansing a totem, opening a chest and whilst in the dying state. Literally every interaction/state except when a survivor is actively hooked it will proc killer instinct but crouching is exempt?
This doesn't make sense when you list everything else it procs with combined with the remit of her power (emphasis on the torment).
Thoughts?
Not A DEV, and not providing any information, just making a comment here. I'm all for making it more clear that a killer sees your location for the sake of new players. When killer instinct goes off for Wesker/Nemesis infection removal, or Slipstream spreading, or being near Artist's crows, I think the game should give a little notification, similar to that of 2v8 modes reveal warning system. That said, I don't think they should make it so crouching hides you from the crow detection.
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@dbdbdbd said:
I dont know if anybody else has experienced this, but this is the second match in a row where i have spawned directly into a blights terror radius, and he has just started dunking on people IMMEDIATELY.
can we get a patch soon here to fix like, literally anything, clown, spawn points, anything?Kind of. A lot of times I try to get as far from my teammates as possible in the early game, which typically sends me in the direction of the killer. I haven't seen a bugged, literally right next to the killer, but I've been having a lot more games where I'm next to them in like 15 seconds of the trial starting.
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@Rogue11 said:
Multiple of these on the map, with massive dead zones to anything else (not that it would matter, you couldn't even chain this with anything). Empty fields of corn as far as the eye can see. Every maze tile was the garbage Coldwind Special where no matter what you do, the pallet is hidden somewhere in the middle and useless even if you find it. Please someone on the design team show me what I'm missing in my thousands of hours of playing survivor. Clearly I'm just bad and can't loop killers on this incredible tile.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/B8CXQ7BJQKOZ/pallet.png
To quote my dad after I was born, "Well, better than nothing." It's a weak pallet, but I think it allows you to have something. I rather they populate the map with a couple of almost useless pallets that maybe you could surprise the killer by using cleverly, than just have it be nothing. Then again, Killer main here, so don't trust me too much.
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@UsherGod said:
Gutting the one true counter to medkits with no explanation or extra benefit to the nerfed version? It's sloppy.
If med kits, toolboxes, or whatever have you are overpowered, a perk should not be the solution to that. Otherwise perks and items exist to counter other perks and items, and that absolutely sucks. At that point the game is a rock paper scissors match that started in the loadout menu instead of the actual match.
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@Brokenbones said:
I hate to be 'that guy' but…
Healing against Kaneki isn't pointless…?
If you're injured he can just catapult himself at you and m1 you instead of needing to waste time injuring you with the hitscan attack first. Yeah if he wants enraged mode he'll have to do that anyway but it's at least a safety net from going down immediately after he finds you
Staying injured against Kaneki is just asking to get slugged and snowballed (Which is something he excells at)
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3980289#Comment_3980289
Yeah I've never heard anyone advocating for not healing against Kaneki.
yeah but with the auto aim attack, I have found healing to be almost objectively not worth it. If you're on a map with a lot of cover, you can kind of avoid his thing, but otherwise I'd say you're just wasting 16 seconds for something the killer will undo, and than zip to you again and down you.
This might be me being angry and saying, "I hate kaneki, he nullifies healing!" so don't trust my advice too much. I still would say it's help me in 1 game against kaneki, where if I hadn't healed up I would've gone down sooner. The rest of the time however, it was definitely a waste to heal against him.
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@Coffee2Go said:
So ill also ask, do you mean to get responses from killer mains that defend the fog vial or?
Because i main myers and im doing fine its way more enjoyable to hunt in the fog than it is with toolbox meta builds although i still ger people with hyperfocus builds.
That's pretty much what I'm asking for. I want to find out why some people hate them, and if it's a problem like on console the vials are way harder to see through or something.
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@Siphonicwheat16 said:
Over the years, many powerful killers have been added to DBD, ranging from Vecna (The Lich) to Dracula (The Dark Lord). Irrespective of balancing opinions regarding those two, it has become quite clear that certain characters have become "power crept", with their powers being increasingly obsolescent by comparison, and let's look no further than the Dredge.
Unlike Dracula or Vecna, who receive their abilities at the start of the game, the Dredge has to wait 15 seconds just to even start moving. This wouldn't be so problematic on its own, if not for one small fact; the Dredges map mobility is already quite weak in comparison, and very map dependent.
Where Vecna can immediately fly with little to no restrictions, giving him full control over his mobility, as can Dracula, the Dredge is not only limited to locker spawns, but additionally gives a significantly louder warning in the process. Even without locking a locker, Survivors can still get a guaranteed 6m + headstart on the Dredge compared to the aforementioned candidates, and with locking lockers, can gain up to 12m on the Dredge before a chase even starts. I feel like some small quality of life buffs can give him better parity to other modern killers, at least:
- Grant the Dredge +5% haste whenever he exits a locker for 6 seconds. I feel it wouldn't be too oppressive, and would at least give him a fighting chance against competent loopers.
- If not removing his teleport cooldown on game start, could it be reasonably reduced to 10 seconds (instead of 15)? I feel that it would be a fair buff to his power, as he wouldn't even really be able to abuse lethal pursuer, and he would be able to actually pressure gens at game start.
- Perhaps another reduction to time to open a locked locker? Reduce from say, 2.25 → 1.5 seconds, to make it less oppressive? I understand that there is intended counterplay against the Dredge, but being able to effectively shut down his power and gain a whopping 9 meters before a chase even begins can seemingly extend chases by minutes, even when a skilled Dredge player has done nothing wrong.
Thanks for coming to my TED Talk
No disrespect intended here, just providing critique. I play about 60% killer, 40% survivor, and not a lot of dredge. I'm not an expert.
However, I think the biggest, most map consistent, and least RNG buff they could give him is effectively a sadako tv type of thing. Put a special locker right next to generators, this way his power is less map dependent.
In response to your ideas though
- Giving a flat haste buff I'm not for. His power can be very weak do to needing the lockers to be in a convenient spot, but making it so when his lockers are more conveniently placed he's even stronger doesn't sound good to me.
- The initial Teleport delay I think lets survivors prepare for a teleport, and seeing as they all spawn grouped up now, it's necessary to give them that window to get away from each other. I do think lowering it to 10 seconds is reasonable however.
- I kind of don't bother locking lockers most the time, unless he's in chase, but even there I reserve it for those, "the generator is almost done, so I need to make sure he can't come back here," moments. This might be a huge misplay on my part. I don't think they should raise the time at all, but lowering it a full 1.5 seconds I think would make it pointless.
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@Mushwin said:
really? the whole dbd went nuts over the streetwise kill switch, so so much negativity, so much down votes, so many comments, so many platforms informed etc and in the end, switched it off? was it worth it? why have all the bad press etc just to turn it off? i dont know…….
I might be mistake, but I'm pretty sure it was bugged out. Like, I think people found a way to refill items once they were placed in chests, not just taken items out of chests that lasted longer.
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@Ohyakno said:
Congratulations, you've made a clown that's worse than the previous version, for some reason.
Look I'm not a huge fan of this guys take on the Clown either, but at least provide feedback or something.
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@Zuiphrode said:
I think we can all agree that old Clown wasn't perfect, but he was at least in a better spot for both killers and survs than he is now.
By any standards, the rework is a failure; killers don't like that their only realistic option is running fast all the time like a fat discount Legion, and survs don't enjoy having to deal with the Clown having a built in circus bicycle to chase them with.I pretty much agree, but the old reload window I thought was supposed to be that one moment you can escape a chase. Not saying he was op before, I just thought it was a necessary window of escape.
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@Emeal said:
But my current Killrate is 75% with him, so I guess you need to nerf him now… 😥
I'm not saying he should be nerfed or buffed, but my experience is very 0 or 100 with him. Either I'm decimating against players who shouldn't be at my mmr, or getting destroyed, which happens a lot in this game, it's really obvious in the case of Unknown. I don't have a suggestion to fix this, because if you make the killer more complicated, we have more of the same problem where bad/new players have no clue how to fight him.
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@dkssudtjtp said:
I seriously wonder whose idea it was to give the clown a 15–20% movement speed buff.I'm running on two legs, but the clown feels like he's chasing me on a bike. That's how powerless I feel, and honestly, I don't even want to play anymore. I used to love Dead by Daylight, even when you kept buffing killers and nerfing survivors—but now, every time I go up against the clown, I can’t escape no matter what I do, and it's killing my desire to keep playing. Give survivors some decent perks for once!
I'm not saying it's good, but the movement speed buff was only 2%. It's more so the instant usability of Yellow Bottles than it is the haste that's a problem. Regardless, I think they were trying to vary Clowns toolkit a little, as he's really chase oriented, with not much else to help him. The idea, I presume, was to make clown have some map mobility.
They went about it wrong though.
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@Blaconia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976222#Comment_3976222
If this perk buff used the numbers I suggested (it doesn't have to), ignoring all other gen repair boosts it would mean stopping regression would take 2.5 seconds instead of 5 seconds, a far cry from ye olde gentapping where people would instantly tap gens mid chase.
I get what you mean, and I don't think it would be broken, but it's kind of like if Behavior made the anti-camp mechanic, and then brought in a perk that makes it so Killers can stay near the hook longer. Probably not broken on it's own, but it's a weird contradiction to make in the design of the game.
Honestly, your idea isn't to bad. It's a case of an inch gives a mile that I'm concerned with.
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@Eon said:
your complains apply to legion as well, and if this killer takes away exhaust, guess why other killers are much worse than him because you can use the exhaust. The problem is not only the killer being overpowered but is the survis depending on exhaust to not ######### themselves. The moment you take away survis toys most people have no idea on how to play.
Okay, I agree that survivors shouldn't rely on exhaustion perks, and they should just be boosts you could use in chase, because exhaustion perks aren't built to be countered, their built for killers to be strong enough to out due. Meanwhile, killer powers are built with counter play to them, even if it's imperfect or really hard to do.
That said, a killer whose built to remove someone's loadout, like Plague on healing, kind of sucks to fight, and maybe that could be tweaked a little.