Corrupted
Corrupted
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Spine chill isn't as good as people make it out to be. It counters stealth killers and is a soft counter to Spirit, has few uses on a few maps. That's about it,against any standard 32 terror radius killer, it honestly doesn't offer much. The heartbeat will give away their coming prescence anyway. And I honestly wouldn't recommend this over Iron will to counter Spirit.
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@Micheal_Myers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/787630#Comment_787630
But here's the issue, how's he a stealth killer if they removed the only stealth he had. (The undetectable of all perks)
He doesn't have a second ability. He easily is brought down to a C or a B tier. (Instead of staying an A tier).
They got to do something to compensate with his unneeded Nerf.
1)Myers ain't A tier. He's like a mid-high B.
2)Myers will be absolutely fine, his EW2 doesn't need buffing. Spine chill is fairly used but isn't exactly meta. His add ons could use some love tbh.
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Prayerbeads and maayybbee a few add ons are the only thing that should be touched but there aren't many good spirits tbh. Even with Prayerbeads, you wouldn't hear her phasing while in a chase regardless and you can hear her footsteps if she's close. I'd say nerf prayerbeads, but anything else is a tad overboard. The devs should focus on buffing killers first though (and they are.) So just learn to play against Spirit for the time being. If you face Spirit often, run iron will. It's good verse other killers as well.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/782218#Comment_782218
No, it's much worse. On paper, you can kill all four in one sitting. In practice, you are lucky if you get even one. The risk is so high you would rather just use Tombstone Piece which has a much smaller risk for what will likely end up being the same reward.
Well yes, that's my point. In that aspect it's more powerful, just not likely or efficient. You are better off using the piece, I don't think this myers add on is at the top of the devs priority list though. If they do tamper with Tombstone, they are likely gonna rework it to cater for a new/different playstyle opposed to giving it a flat buff. But who knows.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/781063#Comment_781063
I mean, they're not gonna just let you stalk them forever. A good Survivor knows how to break line of sight from him. That is already an issue for him normally, and "tremendously" increasing the time he needs to reach EW3 only makes that issue way worse.
I get what you are trying to say about JT being "the strongest add-on", but it's not. Its downsides make it a bad add-on. You want an actually usable version of this add-on, you look at Tombstone Piece.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/781106#Comment_781106
Ultra Rares should be better than a lower-rarity version that does the same thing. Otherwise, why is it a higher rarity if it does the same thing but worse?
It's worse but at the same time it isn't, you can potentially kill all 4 survivors with Judith's tombstone in one sitting. You can't do that with the piece, now we all know that is highly unlikely to happen since he's so slow but it's the potential for 4 kills in a single sitting that gives it the ultra rare. It's potentially more powerful but not efficient. Very high risk high reward. In general though I think pink add ons aren't exactly meant to be all powerful, they grant different playstyle. Look at Nurse's new add ons. That's the route their going with it, I think.
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######### this discussion. All buffing it would do is add more toxicity to the game lol. Also, I don't think ultra rares or pinks are supposed to be better than purples. It just adds a new or different playstyle.
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The hindered add on needs to become base, reduce his slowdown from bottles a bit and let him reload a bit faster.
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@Mochan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/648887#Comment_648887
Theoretically you'd think that not healing is better because the game ends earlier for survivors. But it's a double-edged sword. By not healing the game can also end earlier for the killer -- it's a lot easier for a killer to down and hook an injured survivor than a healthy one.
Not healing is actually bad, it's just that healing was nerfed so bad that it makes sense to heal less, and this is especially true with Self Care. Self Care is a junk perk nowadays, that's what people are saying.
If for instance you are using Inner Strength healing by jumping into a locker for 8 seconds isn't a big deal and is a good thing. But spending 40 seconds healing through Sloppy Thano? There are MUCH better uses for your time.
Um, I'm already fully aware of how it works but one thing you aren't keeping in mind is that red rank survivors are usually good loopers, so not being entirely healthy isn't as punishing especially since healing takes so long due to self care nerf. It isn't worth it so in red ranks it's mostly good not to heal. But a point I was making is that for lower ranks (green, brown) they should heal because it's far more punishing for them to be injured since they can't loop as well. Not healing for them is nearly a death sentence. Half of the time they should heal because they aren't good at looping and the killer is likely to tunnel and camp at that elo.
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@UlvenDagoth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/777881#Comment_777881
also the MM before this was putting rank 18 killers vs. all red ranks. THAT is what OP wants back, OR they want a rank 3, 15, 10, 16 to go against rank 18 Killers (For example)
I see but that is more so an issue of taking averages, I don't think that meant it needed to be scrapped completely, just modify and adjust the algorithm. But maybe scrapping it was easier. I don't see how 4/3 red ranks could ever get a brown rank killer though unless you're playing at an incredibly odd time so the servers are prioritizing location/connection to get you into a match opposed to actual ranking/skill.
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This is gonna be a very unpopular opinion but I think the whole SWF matchmaking issue was better before, it's better to have a rank 1+12+10+10 survivors vs a rank 9 killer than have a red rank killer vs green survivors and one red rank.
Why? Because the skillgap for survivor is much higher and harder than killer in green and brown ranks. Maybe even purple. It's much harder learning how to pallet loop, map design, where pallets are, etc. Opposed to just downing survivors. The mistake most newer killers make is chasing that red rank survivor for ages when they could've literally chased anyone else and downed them in less than 30 secs. Common sense dictates if I can't catch this guy in a reasonable frame of time then move on..
Every SWF isn't a death squad, some people do play this game casually, believe it or not. I suggest that when a SWF loads in, the killer can see all their levels? That way you can tell it's a SWF indefinitely and know what you're up against. Now if the case was three red ranks and a brown vs a green or brown killer then that's awful. That should never happen, but if averages were taken accordingly then it shouldn't.
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@Mochan said:
The problem with buffing everything that is weak, is that you go into power creep territory and eventually the different buffed perks will form overpowered combos that nobody thought of, giving rise to a new overpowered meta.
It just spirals out of control. This is proven, in every single game that exists where buffs and nerfs are done regularly for a large player base.
This is why it is better to hammer the nail that stands out, rather than uproot all the nails and make them all stand out.
I'm gonna have to agree with OP. It also doesn't matter how many nerfs and buffs are issued, there will ALWAYS be a meta. Even if said meta perk is just a wee biit better. For sake of argument let's say Spirit and Nurse are nerfed more, they will still be #1 and #2 (unless butchered) but just harder to use effectively so you'd still see them at high tiers of play. But if you were to buff other killers and non meta perks, you'd see much more diversity and different builds which is what red ranks need tbh. A breath of fresh air.
No matter how much nerfing you do, all perks and killers won't be equal. If you do buffing, killers could be much more inline and you'd see much more variety at high tiers of play. I'm pretty sure some people just play Nurse and Spirit just to win, but if you buff other killers then people could play with other killers based more so on their playstyle and design (same with perks) therefore everyone is happy. You probably wouldn't even see Nurse or Spirit often if Wraith or Doctor could potentially handle a death squad.
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I've also noticed this as well, the pallets have gone from being safe to any brain dead killer can hit me around this pallet by simply bloodlusting me (you only really need tier 1 or 2.) Or those super unsafe pallets where I'm 100% getting hit unless the killer makes a really, really bad play.
It would be a shame if they go from changing super safe pallets to very unsafe pallets. It would still be an issue, just in reverse.
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@MegMain98 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/772769#Comment_772769
I rarely if ever see a Nurse on console. People stray away from her because she’s not easy to play on console. I personally embarrass myself every time I play Nurse. I do see good Nurse players if I see her in red ranks because a majority of those players are comfortable playing her.
Spirit I see A LOT. I mean...A LOT. I see three killers about 90% of the time. Those are Spirit, Ghostface, and Legion. I am so bored of facing those three killers over and over again.
I see boosted Spirits but I do see Spirit players who know how to track though. They aren’t uncommon. Almost every boosted Spirit I see has Haunted Ground, Spirit Fury (without Enduring), Ruin, and NOED.
Where are you seeing these Plague players at? I hardly ever see Vommy Mommy. I don’t mind facing her. It might be because of the new Dying Light change and she benefits from it more than any other killer besides Freddy.
You could’ve also gone against me at times because I play Plague quite a bit. I think you told me you played on PS4.
Legion!? You see lots of Legions in red ranks? That's odd lol. Maybe you play in EU, I hear Spirit is everywhere on EU servers but I do see a fair bit of Ghostface yeah. Plague and Freddy? Absolutely, I see them by far the most in red rank. I'd say I see a spirit once out of 5 games in red ranks? And they usually aren't good.. During last rank reset I saw a massive amount of Spirits in purple ranks and they were also bad and yeah I'm on PS4. I'm not so sure I've seen you, maybe. I haven't been playing much this reset though.
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@MegMain98 said:
@Corrupted Yes that is true...but you also mentioned how Nurse is extremely powerful but she is WAY harder to be good with than Spirit is. Nurse is easily the best, but only in the right hands. Most players who play Nurse aren’t great with her, similar to what you say about Spirit.
Spirit isn’t hard to learn...at all. If you know how to track then Spirit is great. I don’t play her as much though because I don’t wanna exert the energy in playing her, I typically stick with Plague throughout all ranks.
Spirit is not hard to play but requires basic tracking and a little bit of energy and focus which I understand can turn people away from her. Freddy is much more simplistic in his playstyle but a great Freddy can still get demolished by a good team. A great Spirit will objectively do much better. If she can track you, you will die. Freddy can’t end chases as quickly.
I do get what you mean though about seeing more decent Freddy players over decent Spirit players. Freddy is just a basic M1 killer, doesn’t require much thought to play. A bunch of Spirits I run into are BOOSTED. They can’t follow sounds.
Here's the thing with Nurse though, it's kinda the opposite or atleast for me. I rarely see Nurses in red rank and from what I've gathered, many people on console would agree in which is why people think she's bad(myth) but she isn't. I rarely see Nurse in red rank but when I do, she's good. I agree Nurse is the best killer. But by comparison, I see Spirit more often than Nurse however, almost all of them are mediocre or bad and can't get more than 1 kill. In my own experience on PS4, I see Plagues and Freddy waayyy more than Spirit and Nurse. I think Plague and Freddy are easier to pick up but Spirit has the best ROI or risk to reward ratio. Every other game It's either a Plague or Freddy I swear.
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@MegMain98 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/769549#Comment_769549
Spirit is similar to Nurse in the regard that she doesn’t have to respect pallets and can easily down a survivor in under 20 seconds. She has so many things working for her. There’s no denying that she’s better than Freddy. She can do everything Freddy better than him.
It all boils down to the fact that Spirit can play more “MiNdGaMeS” (faking her power) and can end a chase way quicker than Freddy can. Freddy will still have to play pallets like a normal killer while Spirit will be able to just phase around the pallet or predict a survivors movement.
Spirit is still the only killer who can down a survivor by literally doing nothing. Just stand still and wait for they’ll run into you.
Of course Spirit is better than Freddy objectively, but what you also have to understand is that Spirit's playstyle of "mind games" and guessing (Yes I know it's not really guessing if you have good headphones.) Isn't gonna appeal to some people.
In my own anecdotal experience, the Spirits I face are usually bad and they can't do much against Iron Will. Then you have Freddy. 115% movement speed and an ability that is much more simplistic in nature to use that has great versatility. He's straight forward. That's gonna appeal to some people more than phasing and mindgaming. especially if you don't have good headphones. Hell, some people won't even try Spirit just because she's 110% movement speed. An average Freddy player seems to do better than the average Spirit player unless someone is constantly falling for the standing still fake phasing and has very little idea on how to play against Spirit.
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@[Deleted User] said:
@Corrupted I can't take DbD esports seriously. It attracts some of the worst types of people and I remember the Space eSports casters back in the day being complete and utter dog. "Did you know Billy can use his chainsaw for M o B i L i T Y?!?!?"
I do think that current Nurse's potential w/o add-ons/perks is better than Spirit's potential w/o add-ons/perks even on console. But that doesn't mean much when very little people can match that potential without wanting to gouge their own eyes out. And I believe that Spirit with add-ons/perks is more than enough to destroy a competent red rank team.
Me referencing the tournament was just to prove a point that Nurse is very viable at red ranks or at the highest tier of play on console since a good chunk of people will tell you otherwise and swear the console tier list is much different than PC's when it isn't.
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@ArrowTheGreat11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/769536#Comment_769536
Lol esports? A tournament where you have to pick the best in order to win? Who else were they gonna pick, Wraith? Lmao. For less sweaty gamers, Nurse is not on the list. She’s good but she’s not used on PS4 cause it’s harder to play as her than on PC
Um, you do realize when tier lists are made regarding killers, it goes in accordance to how effective the killer is if played at their max potential. Killer tier lists are usually made with SWEATS in mind or the best players. If it wasn't then tier lists would be all over the place. Spirit and Nurse wouldn't be top tier if this was in accordance to casuals lol.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/769536#Comment_769536
Thanks for the recommendation, I’ll give that a watch.
Awesome. I believe most console players should, that way this myth of "Nurse is bad on console." Can die, she's harder to learn but just as effective once you get her down. I knew and seen some of the peoplre there beforehand.
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@MegMain98 said:
No. Even a no add-on Spirit 100% beats ANYTHING Freddy can do. Freddy still has to chase normally and eat pallets, Spirit does not.
Hag is also better than Freddy. As is Billy.
It’s not as easy to play Nurse on console but she’s still the best killer if you play her very well. Spirit is just easier to play hence when she is so popular.
I mostly agree but most people won't understand and will argue you down that Freddy is better because he has more versatility and is easier to play than Spirit. There aren't many good Spirits believe it or not, and as Spirit you HAVE to be good and consistent at downing survivors with your phasing. If not then it's a waste, not to be confused though. I believe Spirit is 100% better than Freddy but there are just a lot of bad spirits and Freddy is easier to play (he also gen slowing add ons which is fap lol.)
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/769037#Comment_769037
I think there's your issue.
I have no problem playing Nurse against most solo survivors w/o Ruin in red ranks (when I'm actually in practice, anyway). It becomes a problem when it's a full team that's really pressuring/hammering out gens and know how to keep distance and use LoS to their advantage, especially on "bad" Nurse maps. Spirit is much, much more forgiving against those teams on console.
Also the frame drop issue that occurs whenever you play multiple matches in succession is annoying on Nurse moreso than any other killer except Demo.
@ArrowTheGreat11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/769018#Comment_769018
I’ve legit played against one Nurse in the past three months lol. She’s not good on console so no one uses her as much
Go watch space esports PS4 tournament they had on twitch not too long ago. Nurse was the most picked and did very well, yes Nurse is great on console and is more than playable against sweaty SWFs. She's #1 killer on PS4.
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From someone who has actually done this, it could be to get very competitive matches sooner than later - in hopes of playing against the best survivors/killers as quickly as possible.
Could be to challenge yourself "How fast can I hit red rank again?" Or maybe to avoid playing with bad players/stomp bad killers or survivors. Could be for any reason but I stopped doing it.
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@FriendlyGuy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/762969#Comment_762969
A Flashlight + OoO. Not that uncommon. A swf will callout your traps and destroy the important ones or just crouch. I don't think hag is that good. Just my opinion.
OoO destroys her. I agree, but flashlights are completely hyperbolic against Hag and it needs to stop lol, it's a just a soft counter like urban. If you don't have OoO then Hag can usually hold her own against a ton of strong SWFs granted you're playing her correctly. You don't think Hag is great because you've probably never played against a really good one. But honestly many people haven't.
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@FriendlyGuy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/762071#Comment_762071
Hag is a setup killer and that needs time. So you have to use one full perkslot for "Corrupt Intervention". And Flashlights are destroying her.
That's a big Hag misconception. Flashlights do not destroy her, a flashlight will rarely help you in chase against her and literally 3 or 4 survivors would have to be running it for it to mean anything. Ontop of that, as killer you have prep time.. If you see 4 flashlights then run franklins and it's useless.
After Nurse and Spirit, it's Billy, Hag, Huntress/Freddy, Plague and probably Ghostface/Demo.
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@jordirex said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/762115#Comment_762115
Look if you're very good with Huntress you can do well against 4 survivors with 5000-7000 hours, 4 obj of obs, 2 med kits and 2 FL.
A hag would be completely obliterated.
Mastering Huntress at her maximum potencial needs thousands of hours. You probably have never seen a Huntress like that in game
She's too map dependant. Wayyy too map dependant, she can have a better performance than Hag given she gets good maps and the loops favor her. The issue is that she's inconsistent, Hag can practically do well in most if not any map and can consistantly apply pressure. Huntress lacks map prescence and pressure.
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For a vast majority of the time, yes. Not exactly because of "the rulebook" per say but because it's much more satisfying for me to win fair and square and it gives everyone a fair and fun experience. I wanna chase and hook everyone. Tunneling and camping not only is lame, but unfair and unfun for both sides.
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Ultimately, I feel as though the pip and points tell the story. 3K and 4K is nice but if you camped them all it's like, did you really win? You just camped hooks which is severely unfair and unfun. For survivor, it's also pipping and points but make sure you get there fairly.
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I think the game is mostly balanced aside from the odd add ons, a few maps and death squads. Mori's and keys need adjusting and buff a few bad killers then boom it'd be perfect to me. I 3/4K about 85+% of the time as killer if I'm playing serious and warmed up. The game isn't as nearly as unbalanced as some love to think it is. You can use the vast majority of lower tier killers and do decent in red rank unless you're against a death squad.
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You can play a decent margin of killers and be successful.
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NOED 90% of the time is used for playing poorly as killer and you all know it. Trying to argue otherwise is just nonsense, it's why you see rampant use of NOED at green/brown and half the time at purple ranks.
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@EridianBlaze said:
As someone who just recently picked up the Spirit, I can wholeheartedly agree that Spirit needs some kind of change. I'm not generally that good as Killer (despite somehow getting to Rank 12), and managed to get a (nearly) Perfect game (32,000 BP and Double Pipped) on every one of my first few (my first 5) public games (at Rank 13) as Spirit.
No offense, but you can play the worst killer in the game, not use their power and double pip at that rank. At rank 13 the game is heavily killer favored and survivors are potatoes. You can get a 4K with ease with any killer at around that rank just by walking around. No killer or perk should be balanced around rank 13's and bad players.
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@Liruliniel said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/757065#Comment_757065
I wouldn't say easy to pick up is the correct statement. Shes actually just low risk high reward. I've seen terrible terrible Spirits, but apparently they just suck at the game according to most Spirit Nerf threads.
Just cause some people slide a headset on and max out the volume so they can go deaf later in life to compensate the fact they can't see a survivor. Those people are not common. Most Spirits are in fact mediocre. Spirit forces mistakes from people who lack the skill or know how to play against her this is why she seems so OP. Most killers require the survivors to make a mistake to get a underhand in the chase. Rin however does not have that issue.
I can attest to this. Most Spirits I have faced are actually bad. Very few are good, coming from someone who plays Spirit the second most out of all killers and have faced her a fair bit as survivor - she just maybe needs a tad more counterplay. You're not gonna be able to just watch her red stain, abuse strong loops and "gg too ez, 5 gen chase."
She requires a different skillset to counter her and it's subtle stealth and being able to read the Spirit player. Pick up on their patterns and adjust. I can agree with the argument that perks shouldn't be the only counterplay as Iron will and Spine chill hurt her but if anything she would need an indirect nerf, like more counterplay. You can actually hear her footsteps if she's a few feet around you - and if you face Spirit constantly then run IW. These Spirit threads are getting annoying.
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@Pleebean said:
Okay so I just want to start by saying I love playing spirit, one of my most played killers by far (I have about 700 hours on killer and 200 on survivor, give or take). That being said I think she's completely unfair to face if they actually know what they are doing.
Il just go down your list of counters and explain my thoughts.
1. "Running iron will is really good on her"
- Although iron will IS a counter, it relies on the fact that it's already on BEFORE you know your facing a spirit. That and she still has the ability to follow scratch marks in a Chase and can still see/hear rush action notifications
2. "Fixated is meh.."
- Agreed. If your an experienced survivor you already know where your own scratch marks are. Not a counter.
3. "Lightweight can screw with her but not that much"
- Normally only usefully once or twice during a chase, also it's a perk so it relies on the fact it's on BEFORE you know it's a spirit.
4. "Make sure not to bump into her while she's phase walking otherwise it's a free hit, like don't walk in straight corridors or don't be too predictable with you're movement otherwise you'll both cross paths"
- It's impossible to see where she is while she's phasing, it's a complete coin flip on guessing if you'll bump into her or not. AND if your injured and don't have iron will a good spirit will hear you when she passes if she doesn't bump into you and stop phasing to hit you.
5. "Pay attention to the phasing sound, if it's muffled that means she's phase walking inside a building or something, the clearer the sound gets the closer she is to you."
- This isn't a counter at all. Knowing of she is close or not is irrelevant in most situations. She could be chasing someone else, she could be coming to the Gen you were/are working on, she could be patrolling the area your in, ect. It's impossible to know and you have to guess.
6. "if you have a flashlight and you don't know if she's phasing or not then try to blind her, if the beam starts shrinking into her eyes that means she isn't phasing, if the beam doesn't do anything that means she's phase walking."
- This counter relies on an item you most likely won't have, and even if you do this and she's phasing while you check it's likely already too late as your standing still waving your flashlight around like an idiot while she gets closer. Another coin flip.
TL:DR: Spirit machine broke pls fix
Iron Will doesn't just counter Spirit. It helps in most chases if the killer loses sight of you and you stealth a bit. I don't know why people think Spirit players are the only ones capable of using a good headset.
If you suspect a spirit is phasing then you need to stop running to negate scratch marks and walk to an unpredictable route. This works a ton coming from someone who has dumped a lot of time with Spirit and a fair bit against her. Learn to also adapt to the player, and catch on to their patterns. I think Spirit just needs a bit more counter play, an indirect nerf would work. She's not nearly as broken as people cry that she is.
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It's easy to bully a bad Hag. Stay away from basement and in chase with her she can't catch you for the most part until you activate a trap. When you activate a trap look at the actual Hag, not the trap - if you see her motion down then run towards where the actual Hag is and/or away from the trap.
Object counters her pretty well and since you're seeing Hag often I doubt you're red rank. Hag is rarely seen there, so just adapt and learn how to play against her. Get better with your loops.
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Yes, this game is filled with hyperbolic crybabies on both sides. I've been getting red rank for a year and been able to consistantly hit red rank with the likes of Pig, Doctor, Ghostface, Clown and Myers. The only time I have an issue is with a death squad SWF and I have to just resort to great addons. But sometimes I get those good solo queue players. You can play a fair deal of the roster and do decent in solo queue. Playing against a true Death SWF or depip squad is rare. Maybe once every ten games??? People just love to cry. They probably aren't as good as they think they are.
I don't even see Spirit and Nurse a ton on console anymore despite popular belief, atleast not for the past two months or so. I see more Plague, Freddy, and perhaps Billy when I play as survivor. (Usually rank 1 or 2.) With the occasional Ghostface or Myers. Hell, I've even done well with Leatherface and he's kinda fun. It's really not that bad as killer as most would make it sound although I do think solo queue should be buffed.
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@StupidButTru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/745497#Comment_745497
You think he sucks playing against a P3 leatherface on console is no easy feat considering we don't have a mouse pad to flick our controls around to our will, we actually have to use skills.
Please, stop. As a console player, what you're saying is pure nonsense.
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I like playing against Spirit.
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That is the dumbest thing I ever heard. Yeah, don't use top tier killers because that means you suck while my squad happily uses Toolboxes, instaheals, keys, and top tier perks. You use anything viable and you're trash. Smh at most survivor mains IQ.
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@arslaN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/743662#Comment_743662
Yeah, that's probably the best thing they could do. Buff solos to around swf levels and buff the killers
Yup, that would put a lot of things in order, set bad killers up for an appropiate buff and of course fix solo queue. Survivors would also be able to understand why the tier list is the way it is, there's a fair bit that still don't get it because they don't play with strong SWFs. But they'd have to make pip'ing harder for survivors to compensate.
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@arslaN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/741885#Comment_741885
Balancing the game around like the 5% of players is a terrible idea. Make a killer viable against those top players then solos will suffer
That's why you buff solo queue to SWF levels. That way everyone will objectively agree on most things without anecdotal experiences, the devs will clearly see what killers need what buffs, etc.
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@ChezAndQuakers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/694333#Comment_694333
Console meta is very different than the PC killer tier lists I see. I’m a red rank survivor and see billies, Freddies, and huntresses. Then I would see the occasional Myers, ghostface, or plague. I’ve only seen rank 20 nurses on console because playing her is actual torture
@Bravo0413 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/694950#Comment_694950
I see very few players say/keep saying this, yet I still haven't come across a good nurse and I end each season in red ranks.... from sensitivity not allowing her to turn freely like shes supposed to, lag spikes and frame rate drops shes a nightmare to play and learn.... not really the gaming experience you want players have.
Since you both apparently never seen a good, red rank Nurse on PS4 I want you to go look at the current tournament on PS4 via twitch - SpaceEsports. Nurse is the most picked killer so far and has 4K'd and done well.
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A simple fix to prayer beads would be removing collision on it so it's harder for her to gen grab. Either that or slow her movement speed down considerably while phasing. Just give it a negative, or it could make her a 115% movement speed killer with no sound emission with no collision and reduced speed if you wanna go the rework route. That would change the playstyle and make it much harder to gen grab.
The silent emission in chases don't matter anyway, if you're within TR then you wouldn't hear it regardless. I think people are blowing out of proportion just how unfair Spirit is. She needs just a bit more counterplay, an indirect nerf so to speak. But the nerf Spirit threads are getting out of hand, if you're playing against Spirit that constantly and getting cucked that hard then run IW or Spine chill. I don't agree perks shoild be counterplay but it'll do you well until something is changed, or hell - nothing might ever be changed.
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Spirit is probably the most controversial topic at hand. I personally don't think she's as crazy as people are making her out to be? I can regularly 4K with her at rank 1 but that's more so to do with solo queue. I do believe the issue is counterplay? I don't think perks should count as it though. Maybe remove collision and give her vault an animation? Or make it more apparent when she's phasing. And nerf prayerbeads.
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@MegMain98 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/727363#Comment_727363
Anything the survivors run...the killer can run something stronger. If you suspect a squad who might be good and have the meta perks with insta-heals, all you have to do is put on double purple add-on Spirit, Omega Blink Nurse, or Iridescent Head Huntress all with an Ebony Mori and you won’t lose. I never ever complain about what survivors run because I know I can make my game easy and run equal BS on the killer side and the game would be fair. I don’t get the purpose of saying survivors run broken BS when the killer can run BS that is even more broken is their favor.
I won’t deny that insta-heals are stupidly strong, but so are ebony moris. It’s a trade-off.
Nurse and Spirit at BASE can still destroy most survivors. Especially Nurse.
You don’t know exactly what players are running but you have a slight indication of what they are running. 4 toolboxes? 4 med-kits? 4 flashlights? Did they all join together? You can always switch to a stronger killer and an ebony without them knowing who to prepare for while YOU know what to prepare for.
Players tend to forget that if the killer WANTS to win, it’s pretty damn easy to equip the add-ons, perks, or offerings to do so.
Oh yeah of course, I've already stated that there are killer add ons that are problematic in previous threads. Instasaw Billy, Prayer beads Spirit, Three blink Nurse, Iri head Huntress, you get the idea. Solo queue survivors need help massively, solo queue is a pain. And yes, Ebony Mori's should go or be adjusted but once again that's not the point I'm making.
I'm literally JUST pointing out the hypocrisy, survivors at this point don't want you even playing Spirit or you're bad (excluding add ons btw) but use your instaheals, strong toolboxes and abuse loops against weak killers and won't care. Look, there's a nerf Spirit thread literally everyday lol. At the end of the day, both sides have broken things but it's like literally every other thread is about nerf Spirit.
Yes, we all get it. She's incredibly strong and unfair at times, but let's not pretend like survivors don't use broken things either, or Tbag at exit gates when they know they used BS the whole match against a weak killer. I'm just offering a perspective on why people might be seeing Spirit as frequently as they are. And you don't really win with Ebony mori's, you kill everyone sure but you don't pip. Essentially you just ensure you don't lose with it.
@arslaN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/726632#Comment_726632
This. You explained perfectly why people hate going against her.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/727363#Comment_727363
Not all survivors are like that though. Many survivors agreed that pre nerf MoM was bs and needed to be nerfed
Everyone knew old MoM was broken but did that stop 95% of the player base or SWFs from using it? Absolutely not, which pretty much is the point I'm making. Maybe exploitable survivor tactics are the reason many people are picking up Spirit to begin with, just something to think about before someone gives us the 100th thread on why Spirit is unfair and needs nerfing.
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Spirit just needs more counterplay aside from perks, if you're injured and I phase then you're going down lol. I don't think she's overpowered though.
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@MegMain98 said:
@Corrupted I’m a Spirit main myself...I know how unfun she is to play against.
Players aren’t crying and complaining because she’s a top tier killer, she’s just a boring and uninteractive killer to face. It has nothing to do with the fact that you can’t loop her. Most of the chase she is just standing still giving zero feedback and you have zero idea on what she is doing and what you did wrong during a chase but the Spirit knows your every move.
But if you say ONE negative thing about Spirit, all the Spirit mains will just down your throat and tell you to “GiT gUd” because they don’t know how to properly have a conversation on what is wrong with the Spirit gameplay wise. I’m a Spirit main and I can at least point out her flaws.
We WANT top tier killers but Spirit is so damn boring and gives you NO feedback on what she is doing. There is a reason there is more “Nerf Spirit” threads nowadays than there is Nurse. Nurse at least gives you feedback and you know how she got to you and you know her every move. She is a fun and interactive to face despite being very strong and unloopable.
Spirit is basically and unresponsive Nurse with a power cooldown.
This isn’t me saying “I want Spirit nerfed”, I’m just stating why some players aren’t exactly ecstatic to be facing multiple Spirit players a night.
I don't think you understood what I was saying. I play Spirit the 2nd most out of all killers, yes I'm aware of what they are mad about and I'm not saying it isn't valid per say, you don't have to explain Spirit's nonsense to me, I get it. I just find the hypocrisy baffling was more so the point. Survivors run the most broken add ons, perks (old MoM) survivors abuse plenty of super braindead loops. I'm fully aware Spirit needs more counterplay and how unfair it can be at times, the point I was making is that survivors also use and exploit things that are broken without remorse but when the tables are flipped, there's a big issue.
Survivor runs you in an infinite, uses instaheal, gg you suck. You use Spirit, then you have 10IQ and are bad at the game and get hate mail. Spirit isn't the most skillful killer to use, but neither is a 4 man instaheal or prenerf MoM (which was used nearly every game) or abusing near infinites or having braindead loops on Haddonfield or certain spawns of Autohaven. I just find it funny.
But personally I actually find Spirit fun to verse just because the kit is very different from other killers. But that's subjective.
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In my own experience, Spirit isn't even the most played Killer in red ranks. I find there to be a lot more Billys on PS4, I find a lot more Spirits in purple rank. Most Spirits by enlarge are bad, I think players pick her up and expect "ez 4k every game." Because of what they hear from hyperbolic survivor mains but find out that she does have a bit of a skillcap.
She's not as hard as Huntress or Nurse for sure, but you will need a bit of experience as a killer and good headphones to be effective with her. Even if Spirit is super easy, what's the issue? Survivors run broken, braindead loops, insta heals, brand new parts, meta perks, and god forbid the old MoM. The point being players just use whatever is meta or most effective. It's very hypocritical tbh. Survivors ran MoM and didn't care, now Spirit is taking off and their crying. Smh.
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@arslaN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/722190#Comment_722190
Well, I got 4ks in my first 5 matches with her at rank 7 so she is really not hard to learn if you have headphones
You can 4k at rank 7 with any killer you're just picking up except for like Nurse tbh. Red ranks is where it matters in my opinion. Every other rank usually has very mental survivors.
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@alienschmalien said:
Agree to disagree. The fundamental problem with Spirit is even the most baseline beginner Spirit is gonna have a good time and get a pretty easy 4k against even good survivors.
She's very low skill gap, very high reward.
The complete opposite of Huntress and Nurse. A pretty high skill gap for a significant reward.
Absolutely negative. You will not pick up Spirit and be good with her, maybe not for some time. Despite what people say and think, you are gonna have to practice with Spirit a fair bit to get good with her. The issue with Spirit isn't her ease of use, the problem is against a good Spirit there isn't counterplay aside from perks. I've seen a ton of Spirits in red rank and by enlarge they aren't great. Only a select few were actually good with her.
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@Marcus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/720699#Comment_720699
I already consider Freddy better than Huntress.
And you say he isn't top 5???
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Um, my Hag is absolutely fine. Weird clips though. Maybe latency??