It's these non-constructive, reason-less comments that I hate so much on the forum...
I for my part agree that Spirit should change a little because you just have to look at the stats to see she dominates at high rank as the go-to killer for an almost guaranteed pip.
It's these non-constructive, reason-less comments that I hate so much on the forum...
I for my part agree that Spirit should change a little because you just have to look at the stats to see she dominates at high rank as the go-to killer for an almost guaranteed pip.
And I hate your reasonless nerf proposal
Spirit is difficult to master. Not as much as nurse but still takes skill (predictions and mindgames)
She is also well balanced in red ranks against SWF and is the only way to beat those genrushers and those who loop forever
But I know you are too lazy to learn her counters and you just want to have ez games
It's these non-constructive, reason-less comments that I hate so much on the forum...
I for my part agree that Spirit should change a little because you just have to look at the stats to see she dominates at high rank as the go-to killer for an almost guaranteed pip.
Your guaranteed a pip with her not because of how strong she is, but because how effective she is at farming. During 2x BP events I can use Spirit and max out before any other killer would simply by tapping phase coming out and hitting them.
She just happens to be a great killer who can farm well.
And this can be simply done by removing collision during phasing, nothing else.
Or you know complain about her Prayer beads being OP like they actually are. You need to learn the subtle counters she actually does have. Realize shes not a killer you want to loop conventionally and treat her differently. If you treat her the same as every other killer she will get you and that's your fault not the killer.
You treat Huntress differently than a regular killer.
You treat Plague different then other killers
You treat Legion Differently as well.
Learn that Spirits ability is her insane chase potential and play accordingly to this and think of outs for this. Break her ruin before bothering with a gen trust me it will help.
Your guaranteed a pip with her not because of how strong she is, but because how effective she is at farming. During 2x BP events I can use Spirit and max out before any other killer would simply by tapping phase coming out and hitting them.
She just happens to be a great killer who can farm well.
Or you know complain about her Prayer beads being OP like they actually are. You need to learn the subtle counters she actually does have. Realize shes not a killer you want to loop conventionally and treat her differently. If you treat her the same as every other killer she will get you and that's your fault not the killer.
You treat Huntress differently than a regular killer.
You treat Plague different then other killers
You treat Legion Differently as well.
Learn that Spirits ability is her insane chase potential and play accordingly to this and think of outs for this. Break her ruin before bothering with a gen trust me it will help.
Spirit is difficult to master. Not as much as nurse but still takes skill (predictions and mindgames)
She is also well balanced in red ranks against SWF. She is the only way to beat those genrushers and those who loop forever
But I know you are too lazy to learn her counters and you just want to have ez games
Oh I'm sorry you got so hurt. It seems that I always attract the wrong people. Where are you when people talk about nerfing spirit on a higher level than I do? Nah, nowhere. And where are those "nerf spirit" people now? Nowhere to be seen, only when someone says Spirit is fine.
I'm trying to make changes that will stop the river of tears from survivors.
It's these non-constructive, reason-less comments that I hate so much on the forum...
I for my part agree that Spirit should change a little because you just have to look at the stats to see she dominates at high rank as the go-to killer for an almost guaranteed pip.
"because you just have to look at the stats to see she dominates at high rank as the go-to killer for an almost guaranteed pip."
Have you actually seen the rank 1 stats? There is an 80% survival rate
"because you just have to look at the stats to see she dominates at high rank as the go-to killer for an almost guaranteed pip."
Have you actually seen the rank 1 stats? There is an 80% survival rate
Which were confirmed by a developer to be scewed and basically meaningless as depips to rank 2 are not even counted in rank 1 stats so please first confirm your source.
Phasing in and out does help your deviousness, but when she phases she breaks chase, meaning you get found survivor points and quick chase points, which does help you pip
Phasing in and out does help your deviousness, but when she phases she breaks chase, meaning you get found survivor points and quick chase points, which does help you pip
@Rin_is_my_waifu lets start from "difficult to master" that may be true (its not top 3 highest skill ceiling in game), but she has biggest pay off for small amount of practice
and about swf on red ranks ( nice mythical powerhouse 1 for every 100 games, and in other 99% you play vs soloQ or vs swf red rank with green rank xd <truly scary> me and my pig/wraith are overjoyed because i get challange, not free 4k) its just excuse to play most op stuff you can get to have easiest and effortless (most players, not only killers, plays like that, and thats why meta exist to show ppl -> look its easiest way to win, ppl are lazy bastards)
It's these non-constructive, reason-less comments that I hate so much on the forum...
I for my part agree that Spirit should change a little because you just have to look at the stats to see she dominates at high rank as the go-to killer for an almost guaranteed pip.
What stats exactly? Did the devs released new stats? Link it please I'm interested
I have to agree that Spirit is easier to learn and become deadly with than compared to Billy, Huntress or nurse. However, do you think making it more skillfull would change the perspective of survivors who hate versing her? They will still hate her. Unless you want to achieve a different goal with that change
Wow so many salty survivor mains here. I'm outnumbered again.
I don't think it's just survivor mains but anyone who doesn't like your response. It's a bit arrogant if you ask me. You could have explained why instead of a simple "no git gud"
Which were confirmed by a developer to be scewed and basically meaningless as depips to rank 2 are not even counted in rank 1 stats so please first confirm your source.
Firstly, if the stats are so irrelevant because of how skewed they are, why would you even bring them up? That's quite contradictory.
Secondly, if you actually look at the reasons the devs listed as to why they are skewed, they are things that would majority improve the survival rate not decrease it. Also, having rank 2 stats included with rank 1 is not going to change much so that is quite irrelevant.
Finally, those are the latest stats we have been given so they are the most relevant to go on.
If you don't think the stats are worthy of reference because of their accuracy, don't try and use them to prove a point.
Your guaranteed a pip with her not because of how strong she is, but because how effective she is at farming. During 2x BP events I can use Spirit and max out before any other killer would simply by tapping phase coming out and hitting them.
She just happens to be a great killer who can farm well.
Or you know complain about her Prayer beads being OP like they actually are. You need to learn the subtle counters she actually does have. Realize shes not a killer you want to loop conventionally and treat her differently. If you treat her the same as every other killer she will get you and that's your fault not the killer.
You treat Huntress differently than a regular killer.
You treat Plague different then other killers
You treat Legion Differently as well.
Learn that Spirits ability is her insane chase potential and play accordingly to this and think of outs for this. Break her ruin before bothering with a gen trust me it will help.
I don't struggle against spirit, but since she's bound to be nerfed due to survivor mains whining, I at least want to reduce the damage.
There was a discussion about this a few days ago.... this would be a buff... if this is about gen grabs with prayer beeds removing collision wouldn't be worth that... honestly the beeds are the only thing that is in need of a change.....
If we wanna make the spirit more difficult yet staying the same level of...
Reduce the MS by a certain % maybe 2 or 3% .... make her depending on landing phases
Increase her phasewalk duration by 1 or 2 seconds
Reduce the cooldown by 2
She would also need addon tweaks.... but this isnt happening anytime soon... it's been confirmed Doc, Michael and then the chainsaw killers are next.
I don't think it's just survivor mains but anyone who doesn't like your response. It's a bit arrogant if you ask me. You could have explained why instead of a simple "no git gud"
It gets really boring saying the same things over and over again. This thread should become "sticky"
I just literally ######### said I don't want her nerfed directly.
When I argue a huge long essay on why I don't like Spirit, that her strength isn't even the symptom of why she's a problem for me and that I don't even want her to have a direct nerf and then I'm just told "WELL YOU JUST WANT EZ GAMES", it's borderline insulting.
Do we need any other proof that you clearly are just strawmanning and aren't actually reading people's critcisms about her?
What about the fact I want several killers buffed, like Pig, Leather Face, Myers, Doctor, Clown, etc? What about the fact that I am for insta heals being reworked?
As I said, your arguments are weak, incredibly biased and borderline insulting and any argument you have about Spirit you make a strawman excuse to try and throw the argument out the window.
Can you stop attacking me please? You are the one who is insulting right now. If you don't want have something to say on this topic, just go do something else
Spirits already in the top 3 skill requiring killers in the game so that doesn't really make much sense to me to want to make her more difficult. I'd also even argue it's more skill required having the phase collision and knowing how to manipulate it.
Spirits already in the top 3 skill requiring killers in the game so that doesn't really make much sense to me to want to make her more difficult. I'd also even argue it's more skill required having the phase collision and knowing how to manipulate it.
But they also made nurse more difficult now, pretty sure they will also adjust Spirit in one form or another ;)
Spirits already in the top 3 skill requiring killers in the game so that doesn't really make much sense to me to want to make her more difficult. I'd also even argue it's more skill required having the phase collision and knowing how to manipulate it.
But they also made nurse more difficult now, pretty sure they will also adjust Spirit in one form or another ;)
I wouldn't call the base nurse changes being made more difficult. They literally just made her worse by giving a cooldown on her blink. I feel calling that a skill increase is quite a stretch.
Spirits already in the top 3 skill requiring killers in the game so that doesn't really make much sense to me to want to make her more difficult. I'd also even argue it's more skill required having the phase collision and knowing how to manipulate it.
I really don't see the difficulty using spirit it's a lot harder using nurse or learning how to curve with Billy or hatchets with Huntress. Chases are pretty easy, mind gaming pallets as well. Yes she has counters but compared to how strong she is it's not that difficult to pick her up.
I really don't see the difficulty using spirit it's a lot harder using nurse or learning how to curve with Billy or hatchets with Huntress. Chases are pretty easy, mind gaming pallets as well. Yes she has counters but compared to how strong she is it's not that difficult to pick her up.
I never said she was harder than Nurse or Huntress. I just said she was in the top 3 with them.
Also, Billy is quite easy compared to these other 3.
It does actually I'm pretty sure, but because I couldn't confirm anything other then Pig's RBT I decided to ask the customer support directly because the information was prior to the emblems changes. So it could be awhile to verify the information. I do apologize for the wait.
There was a discussion about this a few days ago.... this would be a buff... if this is about gen grabs with prayer beeds removing collision wouldn't be worth that... honestly the beeds are the only thing that is in need of a change.....
If we wanna make the spirit more difficult yet staying the same level of...
Reduce the MS by a certain % maybe 2 or 3% .... make her depending on landing phases
Increase her phasewalk duration by 1 or 2 seconds
Reduce the cooldown by 2
She would also need addon tweaks.... but this isnt happening anytime soon... it's been confirmed Doc, Michael and then the chainsaw killers are next.
I never said she was harder than Nurse or Huntress. I just said she was in the top 3 with them.
Also, Billy is quite easy compared to these other 3.
I just don't think that removing her collision while phasing would move her from 2nd place killer. If you are relying on that your prolly not the best spirit.
Coming into a thread, ignoring their criticisms, insulting them saying "they just want easy games", stereotyping other people, not bothering to read their arguments at all -- again, isn't confrontational, but when someone confronts you about what you said, suddenly it's an attack and insulting?
Just because I don't agree with what you said doesn't make it an attack. I'm criticizing your critique about other people's critique. I'm telling you to stop being so biased, stop being a hypocrite and actually try reading people's arguments for once.
Nobody here wants to try and ruin the killer you main. They just want her to not be so frustrating to play against. This isn't a "us versus them" scenario, so stop trying to make it one. Both sides should be coming to a consensus and working together for a reasonable solution because that's how debates work. None of this "you just want easy games", "you're just a survivor main". Stuff like that helps nobody at all, least of all, you.
So "they want easy games" is an insult now? And I'm biased and hypocrite?
I'll say it again. Stop attacking and insulting me.
I didn't call you names or attacked you so please stop. It's no use continuing this conversation
I just don't think that removing her collision while phasing would move her from 2nd place killer. If you are relying on that your prolly not the best spirit.
"I just don't think that removing her collision while phasing would move her from 2nd place killer"
Never said it would, but that doesn't mean it's needed.
"If you are relying on that your prolly not the best spirit."
Never said I did.
If you can't figure out how to juke a Spirit easily maybe you're not the best survivor.
See how that works?
Reasoning and logic will get your argument a lot further than shallow insults.
"I just don't think that removing her collision while phasing would move her from 2nd place killer"
Never said it would, but that doesn't mean it's needed.
"If you are relying on that your prolly not the best spirit."
Never said I did.
If you can't figure out how to juke a Spirit easily maybe you're not the best survivor.
See how that works?
Reasoning and logic will get your argument a lot further than shallow insults.
She needs adjustments slight tho they may be... she's the Queen killer only because she's so good and you see her the most cause she's so easy to pick up. I'm not saying it's important to get to her first tho... there are so many killers that need slight buffs first... but we will prolly wait about a year and get one or two killers looked at because balance is glacial in this game...
She needs adjustments slight tho they may be... she's the Queen killer only because she's so good and you see her the most cause she's so easy to pick up. I'm not saying it's important to get to her first tho... there are so many killers that need slight buffs first... but we will prolly wait about a year and get one or two killers looked at because balance is glacial in this game...
"she's so good and you see her the most cause she's so easy to pick up"
You see her a lot because she's one of the few viable killers and she is also not "easy to pick up" at all. She's one of the 3 hardest to play killers in the game.
If we had more viable killers we would see much, much less Spirit.
"there are so many killers that need slight buffs first"
Now this I totally agree with you. There are so many underperforming killers that should be much higher on their priority list.
"but we will prolly wait about a year and get one or two killers looked at because balance is glacial in this game..."
"she's so good and you see her the most cause she's so easy to pick up"
You see her a lot because she's one of the few viable killers and she is also not "easy to pick up" at all. She's one of the 3 hardest to play killers in the game.
If we had more viable killers we would see much, much less Spirit.
"there are so many killers that need slight buffs first"
Now this I totally agree with you. There are so many underperforming killers that should be much higher on their priority list.
"but we will prolly wait about a year and get one or two killers looked at because balance is glacial in this game..."
This is true as well
I wouldn't say easy to pick up is the correct statement. Shes actually just low risk high reward. I've seen terrible terrible Spirits, but apparently they just suck at the game according to most Spirit Nerf threads.
Just cause some people slide a headset on and max out the volume so they can go deaf later in life to compensate the fact they can't see a survivor. Those people are not common. Most Spirits are in fact mediocre. Spirit forces mistakes from people who lack the skill or know how to play against her this is why she seems so OP. Most killers require the survivors to make a mistake to get a upperhand in the chase. Rin however does not have that issue.
I wouldn't say easy to pick up is the correct statement. Shes actually just low risk high reward. I've seen terrible terrible Spirits, but apparently they just suck at the game according to most Spirit Nerf threads.
Just cause some people slide a headset on and max out the volume so they can go deaf later in life to compensate the fact they can't see a survivor. Those people are not common. Most Spirits are in fact mediocre. Spirit forces mistakes from people who lack the skill or know how to play against her this is why she seems so OP. Most killers require the survivors to make a mistake to get a underhand in the chase. Rin however does not have that issue.
"Shes actually just low risk high reward."
She is quite literally the complete opposite of this. If you read them incorrectly the chase is completely reset and your power is now on cooldown. If anything she is high risk/high reward.
"Spirit forces mistakes from people who lack the skill or know how to play against her this is why she seems so OP."
That's the issue. She requires you to play against her completely differently and most survivors just refuse to learn that and try to juke her the same as every other killer only to come to the forums and complain.
"Most Spirits are in fact mediocre."
This is a big point. A mediocre Spirit is easy to juke and if that's the majority of them then I don't see an issue with her.
"Most killers require the survivors to make a mistake to get a underhand in the chase. Rin however does not have that issue."
This right here is exactly why 90% of the killer roster isn't rank 1 viable. They rely on survivor mistakes to win.
The game is balanced that if you play by the games rules you are weak and lose.
The few rank 1 viable killers are viable because they don't follow the games rules IE being loopable.
If you are a killer that relies on survivor mistakes = weak
Don't rely on survivor mistakes = rank 1 viable
This is all assuming competent survivors obviously and not people making stupid mistakes.
I wouldn't say easy to pick up is the correct statement. Shes actually just low risk high reward. I've seen terrible terrible Spirits, but apparently they just suck at the game according to most Spirit Nerf threads.
Just cause some people slide a headset on and max out the volume so they can go deaf later in life to compensate the fact they can't see a survivor. Those people are not common. Most Spirits are in fact mediocre. Spirit forces mistakes from people who lack the skill or know how to play against her this is why she seems so OP. Most killers require the survivors to make a mistake to get a underhand in the chase. Rin however does not have that issue.
I can attest to this. Most Spirits I have faced are actually bad. Very few are good, coming from someone who plays Spirit the second most out of all killers and have faced her a fair bit as survivor - she just maybe needs a tad more counterplay. You're not gonna be able to just watch her red stain, abuse strong loops and "gg too ez, 5 gen chase."
She requires a different skillset to counter her and it's subtle stealth and being able to read the Spirit player. Pick up on their patterns and adjust. I can agree with the argument that perks shouldn't be the only counterplay as Iron will and Spine chill hurt her but if anything she would need an indirect nerf, like more counterplay. You can actually hear her footsteps if she's a few feet around you - and if you face Spirit constantly then run IW. These Spirit threads are getting annoying.
Spirit is difficult to master. Not as much as nurse but still takes skill (predictions and mindgames)
She is also well balanced in red ranks against SWF. She is the only way to beat those genrushers and those who loop forever
But I know you are too lazy to learn her counters and you just want to have ez games
Spirit hard to master... Spirit is the easiest top tier killer by far. She is way to strong for the skill she needs, which is very low. You can see lots of 400-500 hours players destroying the best survivors in the world because they use this killer, simply as that. She's completely broken.
I assume you have less than 1000 hours at the game. I would like to see how you do with another killer. I'm a killer main btw, since 2017.
She is quite literally the complete opposite of this. If you read them incorrectly the chase is completely reset and your power is now on cooldown. If anything she is high risk/high reward.
"Spirit forces mistakes from people who lack the skill or know how to play against her this is why she seems so OP."
That's the issue. She requires you to play against her completely differently and most survivors just refuse to learn that and try to juke her the same as every other killer only to come to the forums and complain.
"Most Spirits are in fact mediocre."
This is a big point. A mediocre Spirit is easy to juke and if that's the majority of them then I don't see an issue with her.
"Most killers require the survivors to make a mistake to get a underhand in the chase. Rin however does not have that issue."
This right here is exactly why 90% of the killer roster isn't rank 1 viable. They rely on survivor mistakes to win.
The game is balanced that if you play by the games rules you are weak and lose.
The few rank 1 viable killers are viable because they don't follow the games rules IE being loopable.
If you are a killer that relies on survivor mistakes = weak
Don't rely on survivor mistakes = rank 1 viable
This is all assuming competent survivors obviously and not people making stupid mistakes.
I'm at work so I cant post it like yours, but I'll separate it for you as best I can like you did.
I say low risk high reward simply because once you get the idea of her power and how she functions. You are rarely if ever are out of your power bar unless map traveling. Yes there are times you miss the survivors by quite a margin or predict wrong. I would go as high as to say "medium risk, high reward" , but shes nowhere near high risk unless your a bad Spirit.
Can't argue this because I say this all the time people refuse to adapt to her they would rather loop a killer who every 16 seconds is literally the strongest chaser in the game. Why adapt just complain am i right?
I wouldn't see a problem with the mediocre ones either, but thing it's like Nurse you need to know how to play against her in a specific way to actually be good. Otherwise you will still get dominated unless the killer is just that bad.
Honestly that why Spirit is better then Billy will ever be. He still requires mistakes on a survivors part. If your in a open are your more then likely screwed, but if your in a jungle gym you have made him a 115 M/S killer. Just Billy is not as crippled by it as most killers since he has a insta down
Spirit is imho one of few killers who are truely balanced extremely well. She wouldn't be nearly as strong now if the meta was still stealth based one instead of a non healing loop based one.
I can attest to this. Most Spirits I have faced are actually bad. Very few are good, coming from someone who plays Spirit the second most out of all killers and have faced her a fair bit as survivor - she just maybe needs a tad more counterplay. You're not gonna be able to just watch her red stain, abuse strong loops and "gg too ez, 5 gen chase."
She requires a different skillset to counter her and it's subtle stealth and being able to read the Spirit player. Pick up on their patterns and adjust. I can agree with the argument that perks shouldn't be the only counterplay as Iron will and Spine chill hurt her but if anything she would need an indirect nerf, like more counterplay. You can actually hear her footsteps if she's a few feet around you - and if you face Spirit constantly then run IW. These Spirit threads are getting annoying.
I'm at work so I cant post it like yours, but I'll separate it for you as best I can like you did.
I say low risk high reward simply because once you get the idea of her power and how she functions. You are rarely if ever are out of your power bar unless map traveling. Yes there are times you miss the survivors by quite a margin or predict wrong. I would go as high as to say "medium risk, high reward" , but shes nowhere near high risk unless your a bad Spirit.
Can't argue this because I say this all the time people refuse to adapt to her they would rather loop a killer who every 16 seconds is literally the strongest chaser in the game. Why adapt just complain am i right?
I wouldn't see a problem with the mediocre ones either, but thing it's like Nurse you need to know how to play against her in a specific way to actually be good. Otherwise you will still get dominated unless the killer is just that bad.
Honestly that why Spirit is better then Billy will ever be. He still requires mistakes on a survivors part. If your in a open are your more then likely screwed, but if your in a jungle gym you have made him a 115 M/S killer. Just Billy is not as crippled by it as most killers since he has a insta down
Spirit is imho one of few killers who are truely balanced extremely well. She wouldn't be nearly as strong now if the meta was still stealth based one instead of a non healing loop based one.
"Spirit is imho one of few killers who are truly balanced extremely well."
This is why I think she should be the balance point they aim all killers for.
A lot of the balance issues come down to poor map design. Loops are too strong and numerous but at the same time survivors are too reliant on them as they have no real other means of escape. A proper map rework would allow less reliance on loops to survive which would in turn allow them to be weakened and reduced in amount. This shift in what determines if a killer is good or not would completely flip the killer tier list without even touching the killers themselves.
Without loops being the determinant factor all the sudden you see all the top tier chase killers drop in power tremendously.
It does actually I'm pretty sure, but because I couldn't confirm anything other then Pig's RBT I decided to ask the customer support directly because the information was prior to the emblems changes. So it could be awhile to verify the information. I do apologize for the wait.
Her RBTs give you time which in turn gives you gate keeper points along with pressure so yea certain powers slow the game down massively and help score pips
Spirit is difficult to master. Not as much as nurse but still takes skill (predictions and mindgames)
She is also well balanced in red ranks against SWF. She is the only way to beat those genrushers and those who loop forever
But I know you are too lazy to learn her counters and you just want to have ez games
Your aggressiveness regarding this topic won't help you getting anyone to take you serious though.
If many people agree that Spirit is a bit too strong or just not fun to go against, then there might be a problem. People are at the very least allowed to voice their opinions on that matter.
"Spirit is imho one of few killers who are truly balanced extremely well."
This is why I think she should be the balance point they aim all killers for.
A lot of the balance issues come down to poor map design. Loops are too strong and numerous but at the same time survivors are too reliant on them as they have no real other means of escape. A proper map rework would allow less reliance on loops to survive which would in turn allow them to be weakened and reduced in amount. This shift in what determines if a killer is good or not would completely flip the killer tier list without even touching the killers themselves.
Without loops being the determinant factor all the sudden you see all the top tier chase killers drop in power tremendously.
I think the map reworks and the continued creation of pallet value and unsafe loop quantity or quality loops is a way to start this system. With the reworked maps and the new one I noticed safe looks are closer to the center while outside loops are dangerous.
Honestly top tier or not I would like Killers to directly be balanced before Nerfs and or Buffs be applied to other killers.
Her RBTs give you time which in turn gives you gate keeper points along with pressure so yea certain powers slow the game down massively and help score pips
Her RBT directly counts towards the Sacrifice category. I'm not talking about Killer powers kinda influencing the Emblems indirectly. At one point before the emblems changed Powers used to count towards emblem. Without the data backing it I decided to ask which killers still affected this or not as only Pig still have any information regarding this.
Your aggressiveness regarding this topic won't help you getting anyone to take you serious though.
If many people agree that Spirit is a bit too strong or just not fun to go against, then there might be a problem. People are at the very least allowed to voice their opinions on that matter.
A lot of these people who complain dont really have any actual backed up claims due to literally complaining they cant do this or that when people suggest tips or hints or even straight up say that's a bad idea dont do this.
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Comments
No. Period
And git gud
I feel like I’m the only one who finds her just as hard as nurse.
It's these non-constructive, reason-less comments that I hate so much on the forum...
I for my part agree that Spirit should change a little because you just have to look at the stats to see she dominates at high rank as the go-to killer for an almost guaranteed pip.
Typical response from Spirit mains towards people who have a problem with her.
And I hate your reasonless nerf proposal
Spirit is difficult to master. Not as much as nurse but still takes skill (predictions and mindgames)
She is also well balanced in red ranks against SWF and is the only way to beat those genrushers and those who loop forever
But I know you are too lazy to learn her counters and you just want to have ez games
XD good dark souls
Your guaranteed a pip with her not because of how strong she is, but because how effective she is at farming. During 2x BP events I can use Spirit and max out before any other killer would simply by tapping phase coming out and hitting them.
She just happens to be a great killer who can farm well.
Or you know complain about her Prayer beads being OP like they actually are. You need to learn the subtle counters she actually does have. Realize shes not a killer you want to loop conventionally and treat her differently. If you treat her the same as every other killer she will get you and that's your fault not the killer.
You treat Huntress differently than a regular killer.
You treat Plague different then other killers
You treat Legion Differently as well.
Learn that Spirits ability is her insane chase potential and play accordingly to this and think of outs for this. Break her ruin before bothering with a gen trust me it will help.
Deviousness does not effect your pip btw
Oh I'm sorry you got so hurt. It seems that I always attract the wrong people. Where are you when people talk about nerfing spirit on a higher level than I do? Nah, nowhere. And where are those "nerf spirit" people now? Nowhere to be seen, only when someone says Spirit is fine.
I'm trying to make changes that will stop the river of tears from survivors.
I don't know how many times I've said this, but that'll only remove counterplay, not add it.
"because you just have to look at the stats to see she dominates at high rank as the go-to killer for an almost guaranteed pip."
Have you actually seen the rank 1 stats? There is an 80% survival rate
Survivors need more counters against her and survivors need to get more feedback on already existing counters.
It isn't a counter to pick Iron Will/Spine Chill because you might just vs Spirit.
Which were confirmed by a developer to be scewed and basically meaningless as depips to rank 2 are not even counted in rank 1 stats so please first confirm your source.
Phasing in and out does help your deviousness, but when she phases she breaks chase, meaning you get found survivor points and quick chase points, which does help you pip
yes
@Rin_is_my_waifu lets start from "difficult to master" that may be true (its not top 3 highest skill ceiling in game), but she has biggest pay off for small amount of practice
and about swf on red ranks ( nice mythical powerhouse 1 for every 100 games, and in other 99% you play vs soloQ or vs swf red rank with green rank xd <truly scary> me and my pig/wraith are overjoyed because i get challange, not free 4k) its just excuse to play most op stuff you can get to have easiest and effortless (most players, not only killers, plays like that, and thats why meta exist to show ppl -> look its easiest way to win, ppl are lazy bastards)
What stats exactly? Did the devs released new stats? Link it please I'm interested
I have to agree that Spirit is easier to learn and become deadly with than compared to Billy, Huntress or nurse. However, do you think making it more skillfull would change the perspective of survivors who hate versing her? They will still hate her. Unless you want to achieve a different goal with that change
I don't think it's just survivor mains but anyone who doesn't like your response. It's a bit arrogant if you ask me. You could have explained why instead of a simple "no git gud"
The fact that you want a viable killer nerfed shows exactly the opposite.
Firstly, if the stats are so irrelevant because of how skewed they are, why would you even bring them up? That's quite contradictory.
Secondly, if you actually look at the reasons the devs listed as to why they are skewed, they are things that would majority improve the survival rate not decrease it. Also, having rank 2 stats included with rank 1 is not going to change much so that is quite irrelevant.
Finally, those are the latest stats we have been given so they are the most relevant to go on.
If you don't think the stats are worthy of reference because of their accuracy, don't try and use them to prove a point.
I don't struggle against spirit, but since she's bound to be nerfed due to survivor mains whining, I at least want to reduce the damage.
There was a discussion about this a few days ago.... this would be a buff... if this is about gen grabs with prayer beeds removing collision wouldn't be worth that... honestly the beeds are the only thing that is in need of a change.....
If we wanna make the spirit more difficult yet staying the same level of...
Reduce the MS by a certain % maybe 2 or 3% .... make her depending on landing phases
Increase her phasewalk duration by 1 or 2 seconds
Reduce the cooldown by 2
She would also need addon tweaks.... but this isnt happening anytime soon... it's been confirmed Doc, Michael and then the chainsaw killers are next.
It gets really boring saying the same things over and over again. This thread should become "sticky"
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/95064/lets-list-every-possible-spirit-counterplay-to-help-survivors-counter-her#latest
Can you stop attacking me please? You are the one who is insulting right now. If you don't want have something to say on this topic, just go do something else
Spirits already in the top 3 skill requiring killers in the game so that doesn't really make much sense to me to want to make her more difficult. I'd also even argue it's more skill required having the phase collision and knowing how to manipulate it.
But they also made nurse more difficult now, pretty sure they will also adjust Spirit in one form or another ;)
Finally someone who understands me
I wouldn't call the base nurse changes being made more difficult. They literally just made her worse by giving a cooldown on her blink. I feel calling that a skill increase is quite a stretch.
I really don't see the difficulty using spirit it's a lot harder using nurse or learning how to curve with Billy or hatchets with Huntress. Chases are pretty easy, mind gaming pallets as well. Yes she has counters but compared to how strong she is it's not that difficult to pick her up.
They didn't just make her more difficult, they gutted her. If they don't buff her speed, few people will play her
I never said she was harder than Nurse or Huntress. I just said she was in the top 3 with them.
Also, Billy is quite easy compared to these other 3.
ayyy my thread :D
It does actually I'm pretty sure, but because I couldn't confirm anything other then Pig's RBT I decided to ask the customer support directly because the information was prior to the emblems changes. So it could be awhile to verify the information. I do apologize for the wait.
And Pig dont forget Pig.
I nvr used collision to figure it out besides on a gen.
I main her we can stay together xD
I just don't think that removing her collision while phasing would move her from 2nd place killer. If you are relying on that your prolly not the best spirit.
So "they want easy games" is an insult now? And I'm biased and hypocrite?
I'll say it again. Stop attacking and insulting me.
I didn't call you names or attacked you so please stop. It's no use continuing this conversation
Thank you
Yeah, thank you for making it. Let's hope they "open their eyes" now
"I just don't think that removing her collision while phasing would move her from 2nd place killer"
Never said it would, but that doesn't mean it's needed.
"If you are relying on that your prolly not the best spirit."
Never said I did.
If you can't figure out how to juke a Spirit easily maybe you're not the best survivor.
See how that works?
Reasoning and logic will get your argument a lot further than shallow insults.
She needs adjustments slight tho they may be... she's the Queen killer only because she's so good and you see her the most cause she's so easy to pick up. I'm not saying it's important to get to her first tho... there are so many killers that need slight buffs first... but we will prolly wait about a year and get one or two killers looked at because balance is glacial in this game...
"she's so good and you see her the most cause she's so easy to pick up"
You see her a lot because she's one of the few viable killers and she is also not "easy to pick up" at all. She's one of the 3 hardest to play killers in the game.
If we had more viable killers we would see much, much less Spirit.
"there are so many killers that need slight buffs first"
Now this I totally agree with you. There are so many underperforming killers that should be much higher on their priority list.
"but we will prolly wait about a year and get one or two killers looked at because balance is glacial in this game..."
This is true as well
I wouldn't say easy to pick up is the correct statement. Shes actually just low risk high reward. I've seen terrible terrible Spirits, but apparently they just suck at the game according to most Spirit Nerf threads.
Just cause some people slide a headset on and max out the volume so they can go deaf later in life to compensate the fact they can't see a survivor. Those people are not common. Most Spirits are in fact mediocre. Spirit forces mistakes from people who lack the skill or know how to play against her this is why she seems so OP. Most killers require the survivors to make a mistake to get a upperhand in the chase. Rin however does not have that issue.
"Shes actually just low risk high reward."
She is quite literally the complete opposite of this. If you read them incorrectly the chase is completely reset and your power is now on cooldown. If anything she is high risk/high reward.
"Spirit forces mistakes from people who lack the skill or know how to play against her this is why she seems so OP."
That's the issue. She requires you to play against her completely differently and most survivors just refuse to learn that and try to juke her the same as every other killer only to come to the forums and complain.
"Most Spirits are in fact mediocre."
This is a big point. A mediocre Spirit is easy to juke and if that's the majority of them then I don't see an issue with her.
"Most killers require the survivors to make a mistake to get a underhand in the chase. Rin however does not have that issue."
This right here is exactly why 90% of the killer roster isn't rank 1 viable. They rely on survivor mistakes to win.
The game is balanced that if you play by the games rules you are weak and lose.
The few rank 1 viable killers are viable because they don't follow the games rules IE being loopable.
If you are a killer that relies on survivor mistakes = weak
Don't rely on survivor mistakes = rank 1 viable
This is all assuming competent survivors obviously and not people making stupid mistakes.
Please keep the discussion civil and constructive, no need to attack one another over different opinions.
I can attest to this. Most Spirits I have faced are actually bad. Very few are good, coming from someone who plays Spirit the second most out of all killers and have faced her a fair bit as survivor - she just maybe needs a tad more counterplay. You're not gonna be able to just watch her red stain, abuse strong loops and "gg too ez, 5 gen chase."
She requires a different skillset to counter her and it's subtle stealth and being able to read the Spirit player. Pick up on their patterns and adjust. I can agree with the argument that perks shouldn't be the only counterplay as Iron will and Spine chill hurt her but if anything she would need an indirect nerf, like more counterplay. You can actually hear her footsteps if she's a few feet around you - and if you face Spirit constantly then run IW. These Spirit threads are getting annoying.
she needs to be weakened, your idea would do almost no chance.
Spirit hard to master... Spirit is the easiest top tier killer by far. She is way to strong for the skill she needs, which is very low. You can see lots of 400-500 hours players destroying the best survivors in the world because they use this killer, simply as that. She's completely broken.
I assume you have less than 1000 hours at the game. I would like to see how you do with another killer. I'm a killer main btw, since 2017.
I'm at work so I cant post it like yours, but I'll separate it for you as best I can like you did.
I say low risk high reward simply because once you get the idea of her power and how she functions. You are rarely if ever are out of your power bar unless map traveling. Yes there are times you miss the survivors by quite a margin or predict wrong. I would go as high as to say "medium risk, high reward" , but shes nowhere near high risk unless your a bad Spirit.
Can't argue this because I say this all the time people refuse to adapt to her they would rather loop a killer who every 16 seconds is literally the strongest chaser in the game. Why adapt just complain am i right?
I wouldn't see a problem with the mediocre ones either, but thing it's like Nurse you need to know how to play against her in a specific way to actually be good. Otherwise you will still get dominated unless the killer is just that bad.
Honestly that why Spirit is better then Billy will ever be. He still requires mistakes on a survivors part. If your in a open are your more then likely screwed, but if your in a jungle gym you have made him a 115 M/S killer. Just Billy is not as crippled by it as most killers since he has a insta down
Spirit is imho one of few killers who are truely balanced extremely well. She wouldn't be nearly as strong now if the meta was still stealth based one instead of a non healing loop based one.
Thanks.
Yeah I can agree with most of all that.
"Spirit is imho one of few killers who are truly balanced extremely well."
This is why I think she should be the balance point they aim all killers for.
A lot of the balance issues come down to poor map design. Loops are too strong and numerous but at the same time survivors are too reliant on them as they have no real other means of escape. A proper map rework would allow less reliance on loops to survive which would in turn allow them to be weakened and reduced in amount. This shift in what determines if a killer is good or not would completely flip the killer tier list without even touching the killers themselves.
Without loops being the determinant factor all the sudden you see all the top tier chase killers drop in power tremendously.
Her RBTs give you time which in turn gives you gate keeper points along with pressure so yea certain powers slow the game down massively and help score pips
Your aggressiveness regarding this topic won't help you getting anyone to take you serious though.
If many people agree that Spirit is a bit too strong or just not fun to go against, then there might be a problem. People are at the very least allowed to voice their opinions on that matter.
I think the map reworks and the continued creation of pallet value and unsafe loop quantity or quality loops is a way to start this system. With the reworked maps and the new one I noticed safe looks are closer to the center while outside loops are dangerous.
Honestly top tier or not I would like Killers to directly be balanced before Nerfs and or Buffs be applied to other killers.
Her RBT directly counts towards the Sacrifice category. I'm not talking about Killer powers kinda influencing the Emblems indirectly. At one point before the emblems changed Powers used to count towards emblem. Without the data backing it I decided to ask which killers still affected this or not as only Pig still have any information regarding this.
A lot of these people who complain dont really have any actual backed up claims due to literally complaining they cant do this or that when people suggest tips or hints or even straight up say that's a bad idea dont do this.
There are some legit complaints though.