Hag.is.Dtier
Hag.is.Dtier
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/FZOPCKATNS8H/image.png
The fact that Freddy has a relatively low pick rate but a SIGNIFICANTLY higher kill rate should be a major red flag to BHVR that he is too strong.
IDC what you want to say about Nurse or Spirit, but Freddy is objectively one of if not the strongest killers in the game and there are multiple reasons for it.
I must preface this with...
- I was an old Freddy main at rank 1. I played him without Ruin or NOED and was still quite effective with him. However I would acknowledge that he was, at the time, the weakest killer in the game.
- I play new Freddy regularly at rank 1 and I find him to be hands down the most oppressive killer to play. Consistently. Like I win games regularly with 3 or more gens left, AND I rarely have to camp or tunnel.
So why is Freddy so strong?
First is his teleport. He has the best map pressure in the game because he can instantly go to the gen you are working on. No other killer can do this, save for Demo and Hag but they have to set up first which greatly reduces their pressure. Every single gen slowing or gen tracking perk is borderline God tier on Freddy. BBQ, DIscordance, Surveillance, Tinkerer, Thana, Ruin, Pop (especially Pop). Yes these are good perks for many killers, but on Freddy they become exponentially more powerful.
Second is his snares. He has an anti-chase that is very similar to Clown. Say what you want about Clown, but a good Clown will catch you CRAZY fast. Freddy is just a slightly weaker Clown in this aspect, as he can't plant a puddle in front of you during a chase. It is damn near impossible to run a good Freddy for very long around most loops just as it can be a good Clown. This is a minor issue however.
Third is Dream World, or rather the fact it automatically gets Oblivious. This means that he gets a free BT counter, or any perk requiring a terror radius. Sure this hurts him too, but the perks he can't use aren't that great anyway (Unnerving, Insidious??? LOL). Infectious is probably the only TR perk that is good, but guess what? IT STILL WORKS FOR HIM! Yep try it, Infectious will make dreaming survivors scream. Oblivious doesn't stop that for some reason but it negates a lot of good survivor perks.
Fourth is stealth. He has built in semi-stealth due to him being INVISIBLE to awake survivors outside his TR and even sometimes in his TR. This means he can get really close to you while awake without you having a reasonable way to react. He is basically a Wraith.
Finally, he is the ONLY killer in the game with add-ons that affect gen speeds. This is the big one. He has 3 add-ons that do this, and while they were nerfed that is not good enough. They shouldn't exist, period. Don't get me wrong, at first I loved them because my main tactic with old Freddy was to use range add-ons and tracking perks like Surveillance and Nurse's to permanently keep survivors asleep for that sweet 50% action penalty. It was a strong tactic, however since I had to put them to sleep myself it was fair since I had to be active to get that reward. But now you just fall asleep in 60 seconds OR when he hits you. You are going to be asleep more than 50% of the game easily, and usually without any action on the killer's part. Basically he just gets this stuff for free by equipping an add-on.
Let's summarize... Freddy is basically a combination of Hag, Wraith, and Clown with built in BT counter and passive slow down that no other killer has access too.
My entire point here is that Freddy just has WAY WAY too much in his base kit, and that is why he has such a significantly higher kill rate compared to other killers. You can say "don't draw conclusions from data alone" remember that I told you I play new Freddy at rank 1 and my experience is that he is oppressive. Furthermore, as survivor, a good Freddy with a strong slow down build is one of the most difficult killers to beat. Literally your only chance against a killer like this is to run in a 4 man SWF, which anyone who plays this game could tell you is already broken, but I digress.
So what is the solution? How do we fix this? I'm not just making this post to complain, I'm making it to offer a suggestion. Now I have been writing down my ideas for changes to Dead By Daylight I would like to see that I believe would improve the game. It's a lot, I will just copy and paste what I wrote for Freddy. Let's take a look...
NIGHTMARE
- Survivors no longer passively fall asleep at the start of the game and do not see the sleep clock until they are hit and put into the Dream State at least once.
- Dream Snare radius reduced by 20%.
- Oblivious removed from Dream World.
- Nightmare can be always seen by awake survivors within 32m.
- Remove stacking penalty on Snap Clap wake up action.
- Cat Block, Z Block, Pill Bottle, Paint Thinner, Outdoor Rope, Jump Rope, and Swing Chains reworked.
- Cat Block inflicts Haemorrhage on sleeping survivors. Healthy survivors that are asleep will bleed.
- Z Block inflicts Mangled on injured survivors that are asleep and blocks the aura of their dream clock outside of 32m.
- Pill Bottle makes the Nightmare; disappear intermittently to awake survivors; invisible to sleeping survivors outside of 32m.
- Paint Thinner reveals the survivor's aura for 4 seconds upon falling asleep.
- Outdoor Rope greatly increases interaction time for each successive Snap Clap.
- Jump Rope causes the survivor's dream clock to move to a new location every 30 seconds.
- Swing Chains causes Dream World to inflict the Oblivious status effect.
- Garden Rake and Prototype Claws Dream Tokens reduced to 8.
- Prototype Claws aura reading removed. Prototype Claws inflict Hindered for 10 seconds on survivors that interact with Dream Pallets.
- Kid's Drawing adds 5 Dream Tokens.
So let's unpack this.
The first line is actually a slight nerf and buff to Freddy, as one of his only drawbacks is that you KNOW it's a Freddy right when the game starts. This would give some leeway at the start of the game for survivors, and also give Freddy more element of surprise opportunities. Though of course once he hits someone they would see, but the point is he would have a bit more spook at the start. Once you hit them the clock appears and it functions as normal.
Making Dream Snares smaller means it would take better planning in their use. I feel like I can just spam them without care and they do more than what I need them to do. At least require me to use to skill here.
Next. we basically take away all the "fluff" from Freddy's base kit. The goal is to shift most of them to his add-ons. Pill Bottle is a bad add-on IMO, it does nothing for him. This new version would do something for him. Notice how for most of these things while I offer to take away something from his base kit and move it to an add-on, I'm actually buffing it in the process because it now requires an add-on and therefore can be a tad better.
This all opens up new builds for Freddy. I enjoy add-ons that change how a killer functions over straight up making something they do faster or stronger. It leads to more interesting emergent gameplay.
The dream pallet add-ons I feel are redundant. You don't need 3 of them, hell 1 is enough. So let's take Paint Thinner and do something else with it, what I suggest is reminiscent of old Freddy and I would enjoy this as both killer and survivor. I only kept 2 dream pallet add-ons because I honestly couldn't think of another thing for Claws to do.
All the slow down add-ons are gone and in it's place are add-ons that are still really good but not stupid to play against. Giving Oblivious in Dream World as an add-on is acceptable. Base kit it is not.
Finally we make his lame BP add-on a bit better. This is just to offset the fact his snares just got worse.
These are just my suggestions, obviously they won't be implemented but something like this would be a good change for Freddy. If you guys have suggestions you are free to put them here.
Be aware I'm not looking to argue with anyone about whether Freddy is too strong or not. He very much is and the chart above confirms it. We need to discuss ways to fix this.
Bring back the old Freddy and improve that kit and playstyle.
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@Zeus said:
I think the devs care more about impact of graphical update on performance more than anything else this PTB.
If they cared about performance then the game should have definitely been optimised properly for crossplay.
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@slim0b said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1319842#Comment_1319842
Now that some people have played against PH, do you think this buff would be reasonable?
No, just make rat liver basekit.
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@Todgeweiht said:
I think its a reasonable trade off. Using your power all the time just to zone is kinda boring.
Aye
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Alessa
Silent Hill fan :)
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Freddy rework
OoO
Ormond
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Overrated and boring, hope he gets reworked again.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1438146#Comment_1438146
Personally, I've had my share of vampires. I hope you don't take offense, but I would love something more original than a basic thing such as Vampire
Tbh all the of the original killers in this game are based on horror tropes or well known folklore like Oni for example.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1438094#Comment_1438094
I honestly can't take a child, as a killer seriously in DBD
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/J6ISO3IRJHNC/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/EYAZ9TJBKWVH/image.png
I stole these... from the internet
Not even a vampire?
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@[Deleted User] said:
You know what Chapter I'd like to see? Scooby D-.... SWAMP MONSTER !
However, if you want a good licensed killer... look at comic books not just Movies / TV Shows...
Not sure how a child would look like carrying a grown arse human being... Jeff... even though he's a vampire, height would be a problem IMO
Could do a dragging animation unique to the killer.
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@Valor188917 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1430700#Comment_1430700
Seeing your team get instadowned in an insane snowball and realizing yeah, there's no hope of winning after billy pops your gen over and over.
What a fun experience.
Not the Billy's fault you suck.
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@Respectfulnancymain said:
Im currently thinking about maining spirit
Any good builds for her?
My current build is bbq, stridor, enduring and monitor
Play Oni, a similar and more fun killer.
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@mostlyghostly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1430700#Comment_1430700
Haha yeah the only reason I said I was ok with it was to reason with the devs because they're too stubborn to give up on the shiny new overheat mechanic
This mechanic is worse than the Nurse change. Nurse would fine with bug fixes. Billy..... this killer is ######### if the change goes live.
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I'd get rid of it entirely, base kit Billy was already balanced. Going against amazing Billy mains is one of the most fun experiences in the game. After this awful change, it's gonna be Spirit and Freddy. Two very...... fun and interactive killers.......yay
"pRetTY gOoD JoB sO fAr" BHVR
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When a technologically amazing game like last of us 2 runs very smoothly but dbd with it's outdated graphics and small arena sized maps can't even run consistent fps.
Last of us 2 has a terrible story, but it's the best looking game on the PS4 currently.
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@NekoTorvic said:
I'll copy this from a YT video i left it on. The video was indeed talking about PH being too oppressive.
How to counter pyramid head:
-Lose LoS, make him think you're gonna mindgame a loop, then just hold W mindlessly and make a ton of distance
-If he's too close and you have to loop him, pay attention to your position determine weather or not its prudent to drop the pallet and when to do so. There's a billion pallets in the map and if your teammates are doing gens there's no such thing as wasting pallets, so you dont have to be greedy with the loop. Drop the pallet before he has the chance to wind up his attack so you have the time to dodge it.
-If he's too close and you can't loop, take the hit and use the sprint burst to put yourself in a more favourable position.
-Making distance and maintaining it is this guy's biggest counter and if you found yourself in a ######### position then you need more map knowledge or you need to pay more attention.
-If he misses his M2, dont stick around a loop unless its an extremely safe tile. Just bolt it to make distance.
-If he's hitting you, try and see what it is he is doing so you can counterplay accordingly. Remember it's a player youre going against. See how they play, play to counter it.
-Try to see which loops are good against him and which ones aren't.
-Dead Hard is your friend
Now i'll add a new part for Deathslinger:
-Lose LoS, make him think you're gonna mindgame a loop, then just hold W mindlessly and make a ton of distance (same as PH)
-If you know its a Deathslinger, as soon as you hear his heartbeat just run away from where you are. His music may be a bit confusing but the heartbeat itself is very very clear. I have only once been caught by surprise by a Deathlinger and the only reason that happened is because i was out-positioned and when i looked and saw the killer from far away i thought it was a different killer so i wasn't prepared for it.
-DON'T BE OUT-POSITIONED IF YOU KNOW A DEATHSLINGER IS THE KILLER YOU'RE GOING AGAINST. I cap this cuz its important. Being out-positioned is the best way for Deathslinger to destroy you. If you're working on a gen that's very unsafe, have a plan of where to run and be extra vigilant to see if he is coming.
-Pallets are your friends. If you're injured drop the things and don't think twice, there's probably enough of them in the map anyways if your team is doing gens. If they're not doing gens its possible you're not escaping anyways, so focus on your chases.
-LEARN WHEN DEATHSLINGER IS LIKELY TO SHOOT AROUND LOOPS! This is probably the second most important one. If you know how the killer has to play, then you know when do juke his power. For instance, at a jungle gym, you know he has to shoot preemptively to get you before you reach the pallet. If you have enough distance you have to read his shot and wiggle to avoid it. At shack you can do the same thing. You know he needs to shoot you before you make a corner into the pallet, so you wiggle to avoid the shot and make him miss.
-He gains no you at 0.4 m/s which means that if you are 30 meters from him, it takes him 30 seconds to catch up enough for the MAX range of his harpoon if you just run in a straight line. This is different in practice because you can't run straight for 30 seconds, maps just arent big enough and usually have obstacles in the way. However the point stands. He's painfully slow, so make distance.
-Be erratic with your movement and wiggle in weird ways. Survivor movement on keyboard is JANKY AS HELL so survivors can make some awful sharp turns that completely throw off your shot. On console this is possible as well, but its a bit harder as moving left and right isn't as instant as it is with WASD.
-If he misses his shot, don't stick around a loop unless its an extremely safe tile. Just bolt it to make distance. (same as PH)
The problem i feel people have with these killers is that they're too used to being greedy with their pallets and going around a thing in autopilot then pressing space to drop the pallet. These killers can deal with that, so as a survivor, you need to pay a lot of attention to your positioning and distance relative to the killer, you need to understand how the killer player is playing and play to counter it and you need to understand the fundamentals of how the killer character is played.
Shooting with Deathslinger is not easy. Hitting PH's ranged attack is not easy. They both require mechanical skill and a fair degree of prediction from the player. So if they are hitting you constantly they're either extremely good which is good on them and you should strive to be better, or you're being way too obvious with your movement in which case you should strive to be better. Lets remember the game doesn't play itself for them just because the killer player picked a character.
This Pyramid Head main approves. 👍
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If PH is "op" then Demo is "op", since they play the same in chase.
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He's still rubbish until he does something else aside from chase.
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*GARBAGE*
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Silent Hill, A lullaby for the dark and Stranger things are my favourites.
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@TunnelVision said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1388614#Comment_1388614
I don't think you got the reference :p
Oh that Abby ;)
IT'S MAAM JOEL!
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@TunnelVision said:
Pretty sure Huntress's name is Abby.
Her name is Anna, very common name in Eastern Europe.
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@USELESS said:
With All these posts talking about LGBT characters, etc etc, i was wondering how much difference a LGBT character would contribute for the game development, i usually think that this kind of idea would be great for the creation of new killers and their lores, perks and appearance, and somehow i thought about Huntress and her lore, I know that is a bit out of the contest of what i was saying but, isn't she a LGBT character? She only captures girls and always kills men only, and now the title question, can we consider she as a LGBT character
You clearly haven't read her lore properly. Anna captures little girls to have a daughter of her own, not because she's a Lesbian. Also being attracted to children would make you a paedophile not a Lesbian.
Maybe think before making such stupid claims.
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@Wiktorox said:
What do you think, should she get buff ?
Yes, she's garbage against anyone with experience.
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He's the only animatronic that works since he's possessed by a serial killer.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Pyramid Head's ranged attack is problematic from a gameplay and fun perspective, both for killer and survivor. As a killer, it is rarely optimal to actually use it due to the huge audio/visual telegraphs and the severe punishment for missing. As a survivor, you are given an often binary choice: take the window/drop the pallet and get hit with the shockwave, or keep running and get M1'd. There is nothing skill based about this interaction because the ranged attack has a huge telegraph and little to no flick. It either gets used or it doesn't.
This highlights what it is in my opinion a very disturbing trend in killer powers within the last year. Simply put, the game is being dumbed down. Most of the killers released within the last year have one of two problems: they simply require you to "do the thing" without any real knowledge of the game itself or mechanical skill, or their power is so punishing with such little upside that it's better used as a zoning tool.
Freddy doesn't need to know how to run a tile when he can snare bomb it. Doc doesn't need to know how to run a tile when he can shock repeatedly. Demo's shred can be good, but you often get hits by not actually using it at all, and missing is worse than the alternative. Deathslinger is usually the same as Demo in that regard. And Pyramid Head is the worst of them all in terms of power reward vs punishment.
Braindead killer powers or unskillful killer powers simply aren't fun for either side. Whenever the question is asked of which killer people enjoy playing against the most, Nurse, Billy, and Huntress are often near the top. Why? Those are SKILLFUL killers, both to play as and against. It's ok for a killer to be powerful when there is an actual skilled interaction going on between the killer and survivor. Making reads on a Nurse but ultimately losing in a few seconds is fun compared to being snare spammed by a Freddy because the Nurse actually had to put time and effort into something and there was counterplay available to the survivor in the moment.
When you dumb down the killer powers, put a hard skill ceiling on the power, and limit the killer's upside, the whole game suffers.
People enjoy playing against Nurse and Billy?
Nice joke ;)
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Remove the red indicator, easy fix.
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If you want meta perks to work with cages then the cage should spawn near Pyramid Head, instead of across the map (fix the body blocking issue too). That also means killer hook perks will work to such as BBQ, pop, myc, etc.
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@PalletsAndHooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1363662#Comment_1363662
What do you want, 8m range at 115% movespeed or 12m range at 110%?
Demo's shred is 11 meters and they play very much the same.
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@gofu said:
I've played with him as rank 1 killer always against red rank survs with 3 SWFs, and today I only lost 2 out of 11 matches (As in 2 Kills or less).
For those who think his ranged attack needs a buff, here's what you need to understand
I see a lot of people going off on the "red marker" that appears before the shockwave, and I'm actually surprised it's still happening until now. But the thing is, if that red marker does not appear, the survivors have NO WAY of predicting your shot and possibly avoiding it. So removing it would simply be too overpowered as you're basically just getting ranged shots back and forth. The red marker was implemented to give a window for survivors to dodge it and should be only used when you feel like there's nowhere else to run.
Some tips on how to use his ranged attack effectively
Here's the secret, mindgames. Lots of mindgames. And not as in red stain mindgames, but you always wanna be swapping from judgement mode to no judgement mode during loops. Why?
1- When you constantly swap you obviously leave the trenches behind and obviously digging at the pallet or the window in a loop will inevitably cause them to be tormented.
2- When you constantly swap, it makes the survivors paranoid on whether you're actually going for that ranged attack or not, and the more you do it, the more they feel relaxed with you just being an M1 Killer. Basically, you're gonna be catching them off guard a lot.
Do NOT use his ranged attack randomly inside a loop
The survivor will simply see you using it and dodge it, what should you do?
MOVE AROUND THE LOOP WHILE DIGGING THE TRENCHES (And don't be afraid to M1)
SORRY FOR CAPS BUT THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING ^^^
When you move around the loop digging the trench, the survivor eventually reaches a pallet, or a window. They commit to the drop or vault? Sure just use your ranged attack. They don't commit? Sure, you gain distance on the survivor AND they will step onto the trenches you dug behind while chasing them.
It's a win win. But you just need to practice 2 things in particular with this killer
1- Steering your rites of judgement (To gain maximum distance in chases)
2- Knowing when a survivor has comitted to a vault/drop (This comes with experience, but a little tip to starters. When a survivor vaults a window, the item he or she is holding goes invisible meanwhile, keep your reaction time up and you'll almost always catch them)
Honestly I think that he's a brand new killer and people will be saying he's in a bad state or OP, but until we've had him for a good 2 weeks for each side to learn how to play him and counter him, I think the devs should leave him as he is for now.
Good luck out there and I hope this somehow decreases the begging for ranged attack buffs. See you in the fog.
I still think the base range is too small, 8 meters is tiny for a power like this.
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@Sypherpathic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1361893#Comment_1361893
check the store, friend. I think you get the Saw chapter and maybe another one free as well (it's there for no charge but you have to "purchase" it and download it.
I believe you get Curtain Call and Shattered Bloodlines.
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@Sluzzy said:
I think Scott is overreacting and spoiled by playing so much op Huntress and all other killers will always seem weak in comparison, I see what he is referring to on the map. It's beautiful with so much detail but it doesn't seem all that fun (although I've only played on it a couple of times), really wishing the devs return to making more maps like the classic originals, those are always the most fun and most balanced for both sides and I have no map offerings for those maps because I always use them up.
"OP Huntress" you lost me there. You want an "OP killer" look at forever Freddy.
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@WRussoW said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1358634#Comment_1358634
And this comment proves that people are ready to eat up everything devs suggest them.
You know such measures wouldn't be needed if we got proper feedback, right?
And taking it out on other players is the way to go is it...
As I said pathetic community.
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I'm sure the characters will look better with the graphics update
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I think this post confirms that DBD has the most sad, pathetic gaming community I've ever come across.
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Because Pyramid Head is the most iconic monster in the series, Claudia is just crazy, abusive cult leader.
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Deathslinger
Pro's:
1) God in chase
2) Can punish stupid plays/hook defence
3) Stealthy approach (enhanced with M&A)
Con's
1) Low mobility
2) Heavily punished for missing shots
3) Can be looped around certain tiles
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@emptyCups said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1351141#Comment_1351141
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1351145#Comment_1351145
Its funny you think these politics won't affect anyone but people you don't like...
If you dont think things can't be mistaken for hate speech and shut down in a murder game ur blind.
And if you dont think that adding politics like this that are banned in Eastern country's won't just get the entire game banned ur in for a shock.
Not to mention how harmful and dangerous promoting these ideas are to begin with
RIP Russian players 💀
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Legion is that annoying wasp that keeps coming back to buzz around your face. Legion Needs a complete rework from the ground up.
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@Elcopollo said:
The idea of having a perk that allows you to say "Wait, no... You can't, you can't, there's rules...I.. I.. I'm gay! I'm gay!" while in a Dying State, so that killer's ability to either pick or mori you gets disabled for 20/30/40 seconds is actually very neat lmao.
Except the killer doesn't give a ######### if your gay or not, equality kills!
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@BlazeNightash said:
tbh the witch would be only infected viable for being a killer, the rest are extremely mindless zombies and wouldn't work that well in the game or the lore. They could add more survivors from l4d to the game but other than nothing viable
That or the tank.
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My god this community, reference a movie scene and people still argue over some rubbish lore that's gonna be put into the Archives. Can't have a laugh these day's...
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1349252#Comment_1349252
Well, excuse me if Poe's Law is a thing. Maybe don't make jokes based on what homophobes actually believe without some indication that you're joking if you don't want people to take it the wrong way?
I'll joke about what I want, maybe you need to get a sense of humour.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1349234#Comment_1349234
And? Non-heterosexuality didn't pop up in the 21st century, you know.
Tell me something I don't know...
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@DragonMasterDarren said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/160710/thoughts-on-lgbt-characters
if you're going to make a LGBT character, don't just say they're LGBT for brownie points, run with the idea to see how you can make it a character and not just a token in the background
That's exactly what BHVR will do because they're just announcing this for Pride month. This isn't a story game, DBD is a multiplayer game where the characters don't speak and are a blank husk with some crappy fanfic tier lore you can read on the Archives.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1349213#Comment_1349213
She could still be bisexual, but I think we all know nobody thinks about us.
She also lived in the early 20th century and was a house wife. Sounds like a traditional woman to me.
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This post is for humor btw.
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@Danu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1349153#Comment_1349153
At the same time though she could be bi or even lesbian or a lot of other things tbh which does happen quite a but where people don't know their sexuality or have a different sexuality than they thought later in their lives I
But yeah I still would've preferred not having sexuality or relationships become a factor at all in character's lore
Sally had a Husband (Andrew). I'm pretty sure she's straight.
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@Yautja_Warrior said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/160495/the-representation-tweet
Also i think it's funny that some people who said basically what you said on the twitter post and Jendenise basically called everyone who said something similar homophobic and #########. FoGwHiSpEr Btw
She's literally in the same boat as that FeriousSteph person by calling anyone who disagrees with her or is a gamer IS a white supremacist
Jen doesn't even play the game anymore so I don't see why she even gives a #########. When she did play, Jen and her friends were well known for bullying and insulting her opposition for no reason what so ever.
I'll be just glad when June is over because this Pride ######### creates nothing but drama.