Killers eat good, huh?
It just feels like killers get what they want all the time.
They wanted dead hard nerfted? They got it. Spine chill, Shane's perk? got it.
Deliverance, sprint burst, vigil? Got it
Soon shoulder the burden, lithe, resilience, balanced landing will be getting nerfs, because of killer complains and spreadsheet will show that those perks are overused.
We had anti-tunnel system implemeneted - killers feedback made developers scrape the idea, they got rid of it.
Now killers tunnel and feel good about it. Can't say that about surviviors. They automatically lose a game because killer found the "weak link".
Atleast they nerfed ONE slugging perk, let's be happy.
Surviviors feedback about problematic killers doesn't seem to matter for a long time now.
Nurse, Kaneki and Jason destroy lobbies without a problem.
Well, atleast they nerfed blight and wins aren't that free anymore. We should be happy.
Basekit BT is being shortened - something that helped us a lot when killer went for immidiate tunnel.
We could make distance to a better loop, giving us a better chance.
Not everyone was using that offensively.
Solo queue? Who cares, right?
Find friends to play with just so we will slight chance to get escape sometimes.
Surviviors are DCing, giving up against their disliked killers. Making everyone have bad experience.
But we still didn't decide to think why that happens. Why would a survivior DC against their 5th overtuned jason in a row?
Or ghoul that doesn't really care about anything, bringing 4 slowdowns and 2 addons that literally act like perks.
Why don't we do something about that? Why don't we make survivior experience a little bit more enjoyable, so maybe those people will start enjoy the game more?
Why are surviviors giving their feedback and nothing is being done about it?
Comments
Oh, other Perks will follow, no worries. Now Sprint Burst was the problem (despite not being complained about for years). And the only reason why it was complained about was because other things already got nerfed. It is not like Survivors are stronger now compared to a few years ago, this is simply not the case. Whoever says that playing Killer in 2026 is the hardest it has ever been is straight up lying. So Survivors get weaker and weaker and suddenly a Perk like Sprint Burst is a problem, because other reasons why Killers lose are already dealt with.
And the goalpost will be moved further, Lithe will be the next Perk complained about. This btw. all under the claim of wanting variety, but if Survivors only get garbage Perks for years, there will be no variety. And variety would be to buff underused Perks. E.g. if you want a bigger variety of Exhaustion Perks being used, buff something like Balanced Landing. The Perk has no business being only as strong as Lithe or current Sprint Burst, yet a buffed Balanced Landing would mean that more people play it which would also mean that they will sometimes get less use out of their Exhaustion Perk, since it is map dependant.
But as I said, Lithe will be the next Perk why Killers lose games. The Killers who lost games before and will keep losing games after other Perks are nerfed. (And the worst thing is - 99ing a Sprint Burst is at least some form of Skill Expression, vaulting a window with Lithe is not…)
This is something which made me a bit annoyed during the Stream. They are nerfing Coulrophobia (rightfully so, the Perk is only used in slugging builds) and said that it leads to a lot of slugging and they dont want that. Then implement something against slugging as you planned, lol. Anti-Slug was completely fine and could have come live without many Tweaks. But it should just not be possible that a Killer can run around and slug from the start. And the Anti-Slug measurements which Survivors have dont work against that playstyle. Like, I run Unbreakable, but if a Killer like Blight decides to slug form the start, it does not do much. Because he will be on me fast enough and even if not, he probably slugged at least another person by now, so he already has big pressure. What Unbreakable does is punish the Killers who occasionally slug or want to gain some pressure by it.
So the Devs admit that they dont want full Slug Builds, yet they refuse to do something meaningful against slugging. All because they are afraid of Killers giving "feedback" again. (which is the biggest joke anyway. It happened like 4 times now that mass complaints of Killers got things changed and it will happen time and time again)
btw. "Atleast they nerfed ONE slugging perk, let's be happy."… but they buffed A Nurses Calling to work on Slugs again. I mean, it will still be better than with Coulrophobia, but dont be too happy for now.
This is sadly true. The Blight Nerfs did not even matter that much, sure adding that he loses some Tokens when breaking a Pallet is a good thing, but they replenish so quickly that it barely does matter.
Nurse only gets slaps on the Wrist all the time. I dont know why this is really the case, because she is the strongest Killer since her introduction. And I hope that one day that there is at least a discussion if she is the strongest one.
Ghoul and Jason are jokes on a completely different level. I dont get why Ghoul still exists as he does. Yes, he got Nerfs (and funnily bigger ones than Nurse), but he is still one of the easiest Killers to play and one of the strongest. If I want the same level of ease on another Killer, I would probably look at Wraith. Who is average when it comes to strength, but Ghoul is easily Top 5 while being at least one of the Top 3 easiest Killers to play.
And I cannot imagine that they know nothing about nerfing him. Like, he gets to have Bamboozle as an Add On. Why? This would be the first thing which can be nerfed without question.
Jason is also a thing. His Hex-Perks are super annoying to deal with and honestly quite boring to use. And he powercreeps like 2/3 of the Roster… The Nerf to TOTH is welcome, but I doubt it will do much against a full Hex-Build, since he can see people cleansing Totems which his awesome map mobility. He always has his spears available because he can reload at Hooks which are PLENTY on the map. Which is a good thing, Killers should be able to hook easily. But not if Hooks become a ressource for a Killer. That he has a Haste effect which lasts for the double of time of his OE Cooldown is also questionable, at this point it is pointless to even have him being 4,4 m/s. Like, I played Huntress two days ago, because I really like to play her. And despite me having a good game, I was always thinking why I should even play her when Jason outclasses her in every way.
Sure, there are Survivor Buffs, but those are not really big. I mean, Adrenaline is nice, but the perk should not have been tripple-nerfed to begin with (and yet people complained about Adrenaline being buffed…), but what was funny was also that Mandy said they revert one of the Nerfs and it now grants 4 seconds of Speedboost. It was 5, so they dont even fully revert that…
The other Perk they mentioned was Apocalyptic Ingenuity. Which will probably be still garbage, because it does not matter if they buff weak Perks (on both sides) by a small margin if they are too bad to begin with.
But to end this: Yes, Killers are eating good. They get things nerfed they want to be nerfed and if Survivors might get good things, they just mass complain and BHVR changes them without testing. Anti-Slug and Anti-Tunnel had not a single day of testing on the Live Servers. Fog Vials were destroyed after one week and never came back. And Cross-Examination, despite being mediocre at best and almost not seeing any play on Live Servers is still nerfed, despite BHVR not gaining any Data from the Live Servers about the Perk before deciding to nerf the Perk to a point that it has 0 usage.
It is really hard to be excited about Survivor-Stuff nowadays.
Fog vials gotta be added to your list at start they where nerfed to ground so fast.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qHezQZ5VlQto be fair when BHVR tries do any changes to killer side that shakes up game even a little we have people reacting like this (fog vials prime example) :
It's hard to take a post that defends original Dead Hard one of the most obviously unhealthy perks the game of all time seriously. Not to mention completely ignoring the fact that plenty of killer perks have also been nerfed Undying, Ruin, NOED, Call of Brine, Pop, STBFL, Ultimate Weapon, etc so acting like only one side gets what it wants is revisionist history.
While annoying to deal with, sprintburst was 100% fine. Vigil was pushing it over the edge.
This is, once again, Bhvr slamming down too hard for no good reason.
spreadsheet will show that those perks are overused.I'd actually take spreadsheet changes, if they were consistent about it and clear. Just something like 'X perk is overperforming by Y amount in the following MMR brackets (or all MMR).'
I'll also take changes that they do for the sake of gameplay, again if they were just clear. We (BHVR) think the following is a problem for this reason, here's why we don't think the community like it, here's how we'll fix it.
Unfortunately we get mix of radio silence filled in with meandering hard to listen to live streams.
We had anti-tunnel system implemeneted - killers feedback made developers scrape the idea, they got rid of it.Still amazes me that BHVR thought this was something worth doing, pitched it way ahead (six or seven months?), spent time developing it, and then just threw it in the garbage. Either they massively failed at understanding their customers or they executed it horriifically (or both).
Basekit BT is being shortened - something that helped us a lot when killer went for immidiate tunnel.The one sliver of anti-tunnel changes that were promised is also on the chopping block.
Why are surviviors giving their feedback and nothing is being done about it?Somehow BHVR ran exit surveys for years and the community was able to convince them 'nah, don't listen to that' and we're back to changes being made because…none of us really know.
As someone who started playing this game in 2017, I genuinely believe that newer players, social media, and content creators are making the discourse around this game worse.
I don't remember Sprint Burst or Lithe ever being perks that people actively complained about. The fact they've existed for years without significant changes says a lot. The perk that people consistently took issue with was Dead Hard because it gave free distance, extended chases, and let survivors bypass traps. The whole Sprint Burst and Lithe discourse only really seemed to take off over the last year or so, and it honestly feels like it came out of nowhere.
I also don't think a perk being popular automatically means it's a problem. I especially dislike the "Sprint Burst gives free distance" argument because... isn't that the entire purpose of the perk? It's supposed to create distance.
Some of these newer killer players and streamers wouldn't have survived back in 2017 when exhaustion recovered while you were running, allowing Sprint Burst to activate multiple times in a single chase. That was genuinely problematic, and I'm glad they changed how exhaustion works. Since then, though, I've felt that exhaustion perks have been in a pretty healthy spot. They're stronger when paired with Vigil, but I'd hardly call that combination broken. Survivors shouldn't be getting multiple Sprint Burst activations in the same chase anymore, even with Vigil and Fixated. If they are, that's probably more down to how the chase was played than the perks themselves.
I think it's become easier for people to blame perks than to look at what they could have done differently or recognise where they misplayed a chase. I've gone against so many TTV players who immediately list every survivor perk at the end of the match as if that alone explains why they lost. It's such a backwards mindset.
I'm honestly glad I don't use exhaustion perks anymore because I already know what's going to happen if this Sprint Burst nerf goes through. More people will switch to Lithe, and then Lithe will become the next perk everyone decides is a problem.
To be fair, the complaints about DH only came when DH was working properly again. The years it was bugged and Survivors ended up exhausted on the ground, no Killer had an issue with DH and even complaints about DH for distance (the only way to actually use it reliable) were far less. Only when Killers were the one getting the wrong feedback (hits despite the Survivor using DH), they complained, even if this were just hits they would not have gotten in the first place.
Not saying that I disagree with DH being nerfed or anything.
The Perks you list are also not really good examples, since they were either extremely unhealthy (Ultimate Weapon, Undying, Call of Brine (even tho this was more of a victim of Eruption)) or they were or will be reverted. E.g. PGTW was buffed again and just recently. Ruin was also buffed, not 200% like before, but still a very good Perk nowadays (granted, I dont think it ever needed to be nerfed, the problem was Tinkerer back then after Undying was single use).
STBFL will be buffed as they already said. And NOED was nerfed, but sadly not in the correct way.
I gotta learn how to respond to certain parts lol. Mostly on the topic of there being no better options i think the 45-50 perk change coming in next midchapter shows they do at least get that. Its saturating both with mostly straight buffs. Except for specific builds that avoided the thing diminishing came into solve. (So I assume stuff like pain res turn back the clock pop or hyperfocus stake out bnp) because they dont get diminished. Not much else i can think of in that front they could be referencing
Old ruin was very unhealthy.
NOED needed the changes.
Call of brine is thing of the past - this perk synergized with too much things, which creater 1-hour long matches.
POP got it's glory back.
I didnt enjoy stbfl changes, so I will never justify it.
Ultimate weapon was also terrible to go against, synergy with old dead man switch was just too strong.
Both sides had great perks, but killers always had better ones.
Dead hard in my experience wasn't that bad. Surviviors had way worse things available.
This is revisionist history, DH made the game miserable for killer as you basically had to wait for the survivor to use it before you were allowed to swing at them and it extended every chase basically for free if you were near a pallet the only reason it wasn't the number one complaint (which there were times it was there's a reason this game has "E" memes) was because DS/Unbreakable was more ridiculous at the time.
Also STBFL is only getting a number buff which won't fix the reason it's bad now which is you can't m2 the obsession to save stacks. I doubt there's any number buff the could give the perk to save it without making it unhealthy especially when rapid brutality exists.
Also the point wasn't wether the nerfs to those killer perks were deserved or not some were some weren't. It was just pointing out BHVR is more than willing to nerf both sides.
Its funny. I dont even use the nerfed perks but its still amusing to see them being so against perks that dont throw the game.
Remind me, what survivor perk had 80% usage at high mmr? It's on the tip of my tongue, it lasted for years before multiple soft rollout nerfs, uhh alive soft?
We can also talk about circle of healing, made for this, pallet vaccum, insta heals, insta blinds, 100% guaranteed locker blind tech, old decisive strike, old iron will, map design with infinites and larger total size
Both sides have had absolutely busted things in their favor. I do agree killer powers are being power crept and there is nothing equivalent on survivor side, but what live service game doesn't suffer from this issue, and I don't know a good solution to this problem.
Kaneki and Jason are not a very good example. They have been nerfed. Yes, they may still be top tiers killers, but Sprint Burst and Deliverance are absolutely not going to be going down the tier lists much either post these nerfs. It's a bit hypocritical to consider the Kaneki and Jason nerfs as irrelevant because they are still good, but consider these nerfs as major "screw yous" despite the fact that they will probably impact these perks to the same degree that the Kaneki and Jason nerfs impacted them.
These changes are really not that big, they won't have much impact on them. I can understand they look scary though as 60 - 120 looks like a massive change, and Sprint Burst has been the same since basically forever, so of course they look bad. But really they won't change much. Deliverance's main strength remains, and Sprint Burst can still be used the same to get from point A to point B faster or to reach safety you just might need to use it a little earlier.
I love checking here and the killer subreddits because there's always people acting like the balance change of the week is proof that their side is being treated as second class citizens.
Like, over the past few years we've had a steady trickle of very good survivor perks. Along with some nice basekit buffs like the improvements to basekit bt and anti-camp, I think its fair that the strongest perks available (Especially the ones that shine in full swfs like Deliverance), get toned down a bit.
Should more nerfs to the upper echelon of killers follow this? Of course. But I find this kind of overexaggeration a little silly when the pendulum of game balance has overall swung more towards survivor for a decent bit now.
'Swung more towards survivor' when we just got done getting through with Dracula/Ghoul/Jason. Blight gets compensation buffs and is still just as overpowered.
'Swung more towards survivor' when the TWD chapter and map exists.
Or how about when tunneling and proxy camping still haven't been meaningfully address? Nor has slugging.
4 slowdowns meta has been a thing since 2023. No meaningful nerfs.
Every 'strong' survivor thats new immediately gets gutted into niche tier.
Are you sure?
Aside from Shane's Cross Examination (which never should've gone live like that), which new survivors got gutted? I can't think of any recent survivor who had their perks nerfed majorly aside from Cross Examination. Unless you are counting changes from PTB to live, then I guess Five Moves Ahead, but that's still a pretty decent perk.
Wait just got done with Dracula? He came out 2 years ago. Also when did Blight get compensation buffs? I only saw a summary of the recent stream but I don't remember hearing about anything like that after the nerfs.
Anyways, yeah we've also gotten some really good killers, I'm not in anyway trying to argue that Killers haven't been getting some strong as hell stuff too. But with the overall increased map strength with pallet density changes, as well as some very game changing perks like Resurgence, Shoulder the Burden, or Plot Twist not being touched much I think Survivor is still pulling ahead a bit overall. I think the recent 800+ swf streak that happened recently shows that off a bit, the impact some of these perks have on a match is kinda crazy.
Btw yeah Fallen Refuge is still god awful, but with Trickster's Delusion also being added I think it's impact on overall game balance is pretty small.
Overall I get your point but... Jason hasn't really been nerfed. His addons got abit of a rebalance with some buffs and some nerfs, but nothing major. Am I missing something here?
I'm looking through the survivors trying to figure it out, maybe Michonne with Last stand, otherwise potentially Gabriel with Scavenger? I really don't think it's all that common an occurrence, I think people really overstate this idea of bhvr regularly gutting new perks or killers. Numbers wise it just doesn't happen that much.
Yeah I think it's best at this point to only play during the events.
I personally wouldn’t call the Sauna Rock nerf nothing major, but I get where you are coming from.
You’re not missing anything, he’s not been nerfed that much and I wouldn’t be opposed to more changes. Jason is still pretty new so I expect he will get changes soon, they probably are just cautious especially after how they handled Krasue.
Sprint Burst meanwhile has been untouched for years, so I still think Jason is a poor comparison as one is so new and the other took over half a decade to receive a slight number change.
Ehm, if you think old dh didnt need any nerf then your are out of your mind, that perk was easiest to use and kept in top 1 place meta for years and even now dh after nerfs you so hate and call them uneeded still keeps in top 5 perks use or top 10 which is sick we have like 200+ perks for survivor and theres hardly any game where dh isnt runned by someone.
Now dh needs activation so it cant be spammed more then it needed and has ssome skill requirement which is good.
I agree, even killer wise there aren’t really any that got nerfed massively out the gate aside from Krasue which was a unique exception. I’m not sure I’d even call Gabriel recent as he came out over three years ago.
POP is somewhat balanced you need hook and then get to one particular gen to use it, dh was busted beyoned especialy first version and deffinitely one of top 5 strongest perk through whole history with old ds. Survivors have still very good perks people just forget killers need to be bit stronger because if survivor perks outpower killers there is one side having 16 of them vs one guy having just 4 and having to battle these 16 and not all killers have a-tier powers to combat that.
Just look at epidemis vid with momo going against swf very good ones with anything they want and he win many games but how? He had to slug at the endgame mostly because he couldnt power through survivor perks with current blight in time where survivors powered through gens and that confirms just how good survivor perks still are that even top tier players mastering top tier killers can get cooked by teams like these or even beaten if its bad map for that killer (Ibelieve it was hawkins or larrys where he lost with blight because he sucks on that map or midwitch some indoor one).
I've been playing him basically non-stop and sauna rock's duration was obviously gonna get hit, lol. The only reason it was 13 seconds to begin with is cuz they wanna shove that number into as much stuff as they can. Since I've been running sleeping bag and enjoying the buff IT got, im not exactly too hung up on the nerf anyone should have seen coming.
Of course it was, it was way too strong. I never used it anyway so I’m not hung up on it either.
But that doesn’t change what I said though.
Respectfully, I think you're letting isolated examples get too much weight here.
Even in the stream we're talking about here there were obviously things from survivor feedback, like nerfing Thrill and Coulrophobia and buffing the perks that they shared. Hell, they're if anything listening to player feedback too much because strong perks like Adrenaline and Clean Break are getting buffed.
Not complaining, though, I love Clean Break, I'll happily take it.
There's a similar thing happening with the basekit BT being shortened, because they're also giving something at the same time. It's obviously an entirely valid opinion to think that won't make up for losing five seconds of duration (though I'm not sure I'd agree with it), but not mentioning it at all makes the argument come off as a little disingenuous.
You could make a similar argument about killer, too. Nurse may not have been nerfed in a long time, but Blight got nerfs recently with more changes announced for sometime down the road, Kaneki has been nerfed a few times (though I'd agree not enough, that's just a different argument altogether), Krasue was nerfed in a reasonable timeframe. That just leaves Jason, and he's brand new, there's not been as much opportunity to nerf him yet.
(And they are addressing survivor complaints about Jason by nerfing Thrill, too.)
Changes do come to the game for both sides, it's pretty easy to think of things that have been done to benefit survivors over the last however long. Like I said above, I'm pretty stoked for some of the survivor changes in the upcoming patch, one of my favourite perks is getting buffed and two really obnoxious killer perks are getting nerfed, that's pretty nice as far as I'm concerned.
Meh, Im just kinda benifiting cuz the stuff ppl have been complaining about isn't really anything I use anyway. If they nerf his synergy with full hex builds for example, they'll PROBABLY try to balance it out. I highly doubt my setup will be seeing any nerfs, and more likely...buffs. With the anti-camp no longer applying to alternate floors for example, I now got rid of the only annoyance of playing on RPD and Midwich as him.
Kinda wondering if they'll buff Spies with the upcoming changes...
Making adjustments to the most overtuned killers isn't the equivalent of popular survivor perks and even basekit being nerfed. If you don't like a killer change there's 40 more you can choose from, and every killer that drops now is A tier. A ten-year-old perk is being nerfed in an environment where every killer that comes out is strong. We're about to have a killer who can both infect and injure you simultaneously from across the map while getting basekit old ruin and not having to risk hook denials, after the release of a killer that can quick reload, move super fast while invisible, get free info, and has had camping recently buffed. This is an illogical time to nerf survivors this heavily, and we've had a stream of insanerfs to perks like Fast Track and Cross Examination, and there were fog vials and medkits too. I can't see the logic in making killers more and more strong while survivors have, for some years, gotten very little. The same perks have been meta for years because all the new ones are garbage or get destroyed, so now they'll just destroy those old ones too too.
The only big positive change survivors have had was the basekit BT increase and now it's gone.
The point isn't that these changes are meant to be one to one equivalent, the point is that feedback from both sides is clearly getting listened to because even this upcoming patch has changes informed by complaints and pain points from both killers and survivors.
That's the take I was responding to, specifically.
Do you really think those tiny adjustments to Thrill and Coul are the same as cutting 5s off of basekit BT, which is a massive change and the only token gift received when everything that was supposed to help with tunneling, slugging, and camping was canceled?
If Coul is being changed because of full slug builds than they missed the mark because Infectious is the bigger problem, and they're also buffing Nurse's to work better with slugging. So that's pointless and will change nothing. Coul just shouldn't work on slugs. The change to Thrill is also a niche build change and it's not going to kill hex builds. How hexes function needs a complete rework as does Thrill. Nerfing something like SB that's been meta for a decade, is not on the same planet as these other perks. You can say these aren't supposed to be equivalent but they're rolling out at the same time, and what we have is nerfs to two niche killer perks along with nerfs to two massively meta survivor perks, plus nerfs to survivor basekit. This following on the heels of nerfs instanerfs to Cross Examinarion and Fast Track. Meanwhile, Turn Back the Clock entered the meta unscathed.
As I said, I'm responding to the take that BHVR only listen to killers and survivor feedback is ignored, so no, I'm not saying those things are the same.
I of course have my own opinions about the upcoming changes but outside of acknowledging where they intersect with my point, I wasn't commenting on that part. I was responding to someone saying a specific thing, not the general contents of this upcoming patch.
There's every reason to believe that the Elusive change is going to be rescinded in a couple months as well just like every other token anti-tunnel change has been. If it even makes it to live at all.
Its probably the healthiest approach they could make. Ideally they provide an anti-tunnel that ISNT just used offensively against ppl who arnt tunneling. Something like elusive provides just that.
I agree with their take, and this is a good example of it: nerfing survivor meta and basekit while nerfing killer niche.
I don't see a lot of listening to survivor complaints because I don't see enough survivor complaints. They're too quiet compared to killer mains. All I see is the CC gods cry about something on survivor side and their drones repeat it. There are people in this forum that have shown enough evidence that they're new to the game yet they complain about things that they've had zero interaction with. The killer side has an outrageous amount of parrots. The only time I see mass survivor complaints is when something big like this or the anti-tunnel ptb nuke happens. Yet the nerfs still go through. When's the last time a big change happened on killer because of survivors. Skull Merchant and gen kick limits? That was years ago.
I also don't think a lot of killer nerfs are complaint related. Henry was nerfed less than 2 months after release. Did you see endless complaints about him? People barely said a thing about him past his first week of release, and his players dropped off quick. It most likely happened because he was over performing, not because of feedback. But I highly doubt Fast Track was overperforming. Fog Vials didn't even get a chance. The anti-tunnel protection also never went live. It feels like killer nerfs are made more because of data, and survivor nerfs are made more because of outrage from killers.
The survivor meta and killer niche things being nerfed here are both complained about, hence me making the point I originally made.
People have been complaining about Sprint Burst for at least as long as I've been playing, and Vigil's been getting steadily more complaints ever since the buff it got a while back. Admittedly I don't personally see much Deliverance complaining, but it is a very strong perk so not too surprising.
Similarly, people have been complaining about hex builds with a focus on Jason, and people have been complaining about aggressive slugging builds. Thrill is a core component of those hex builds and Coulrophobia is at least one component of aggressive slugging builds.
This extends outwards. People complain about bad survivor perks, and survivor perks are getting buffed, including ones people say are bad when they aren't like Clean Break. This is happening on the killer side too.
People complain about anti-tunnel being used aggressively + the fifteen seconds being too much in the endgame, so it's being lowered, but people also obviously complain about tunnelling + talk about how parts of the anti-tunnel PTBs were fine to implement, so they're matching that with adding back something from those PTBs.
Whether these are good ideas and what impact they'll have on the game are different subjects we'll be more equipped to talk about after the PTB hits, and also they're just not what I'm saying here. Complaints are clearly getting listened to on both sides in just this one upcoming patch based on what we've been told from that stream.
It's not the healthiest approach. Not even close. It incentivizes camping, does nothing whatever to hinder camping, and then BUFFS tunnelling when camping does happen because there's far less protection.
If they wanted a healthy approach, they wouldn't need any anti-tunnel protections at all. They would do what literally every other multiplayer game does and provide a safe respawn. You don't respawn in Overwatch or COD in the spot you died, in the middle of the enemy team. The opponent doesn't get to choose whether or not you get to continue playing the round or if you're simply done 60 seconds in after one hook. This is something they already figured out and implemented in 2v8. And yeah, it wouldn't work directly in 1v4, but you could add a mandatory 45 second clock, or void-area minigame before the hook respawns, or any number of things. Then you wouldn't need all these asinine anti-camp and anti-tunnel band-aids and you could get rid of all of them.
Additionally, you could incentivize and promote moving away from the hook by opening a portal to 24m of a gen of the killer's choice after each hook. Take it within 15 seconds or lose it. Now every killer has mobility and the ones that had it baseline barely benefit.
But so many of the unhealthy mecahnics benefit killers exclusively, and because they refuse to make changes that killers don't endorse, they're never going to actually address them. They're going to keep making these token bare minimum changes that don't address the actual problems just so they can check off "we technically did something for survivors" each time. Because every microscopic nerf to any single killer must be paired with a substantative baseline survivor nerf, and every niche unhealthy killer perk that gets the slightest lovetap must be 'balanced' by nuking multiple survivor meta perks.
A respawn doesnt really work here because then there really wouldn't be a need to go for rescues. I wouldn't really have an issue with 2v8 style saves, but often times those spawned directly next to a teammate on a gen. Ppl were out of play for 2 seconds before they were back in. I dont see how elusive promotes CAMPING since there's still an anti-camp. This approach incentizes unhooked survivors to run AWAY from the killer and try to break LOS to benefit from the elusive rather than run AT the killer to benefit from the endurance.
I want to point out that both Pop and STBFL were rebalanced after they were partially made basekit.
2.1 STBFL dropped the attack cooldown to 1.8 seconds. After 6.1, this got inadvertently buffed due to the basekitting of two stacks of it, resulting in a 1.62 second cooldown, which was so short that it made unhooking nearly impossible.
Now, STBFL drops the cooldown from 2.7 to 1.832 seconds. That's a 0.032 second increase. I doubt anyone actually notices.
Pop went from 25% to 20%, but then, again, that's against a backdrop of ALL gen-kicks stripping a portion of progress away.
If you have these perks equipped, for the most part, they're indistinguishable from their pre-6.1 versions, because the only bits that got taken away, got added to every killer's basekit.
Again, they're not the same. Everything is getting a numbers change instead of a functional change, which is what's needed. Vigil, SB, and especially the basekit BT will actually feel something from that, unlike the other perks. No one asked for this weird Deliverence change. Having it deactivate in end game would have been the more logical choice.
The killer numbers changes have completely missed the point. They won't address any of the issues they're meant to tackle. Whenever Nowhere to Hide comes up pretty much everyone agree the aura should stick to the gen. That's not what they're doing. It's the same with Coul. It needs to not work on slugs, and it needs to come with a rework to Infectious.
They treated all these things the same but they're not the same, and the survivor side will be feeling it much, much more—again. That's the problem. Every killer will benefit from these survivor nerfs, especially the BT; survivors will get crumbs from the killer changes.
This is always a thought-terminating cliché. There will always be people who DC about the most stupid things, you cannot avoid that. Could be the person who is downed first. Or maybe they got sandbagged by a teammate by accident. But I highly doubt that people encounter those players on a regular basis. What they encounter far more is people who DC because the Killer is Ghoul, Hex-Jason or a slugging Blight.
And those are things which can be changed. Like the last time I DCed was two days ago or so against a slugging Blight. In fact I abandoned because the game gave me the option, after I was slugged for 5 times and decided to not be part of it anymore. Now, would you say I am an entitled crybaby and the concern that a slugging build is unhealthy is not valid? I hope not. And the Devs will see that if certain Killers or certain Builds (or certain Killers WITH certain Builds) lead to a lot of DC or Abandons that this can and should be distinguished from people who DC because of a mild inconvenience.
Honestly, far too long now we punish people for leaving games instead of looking to remove those things which lead to those people leaving games. It is just baffling that in 2026, 10 years of a game, there is still something around like full slug builds for example.
I dont know which Survivor Mains you mean saying that. The game has objectively become more killer-sided over the years and Survivor has become weaker. There is not even a discussion here, there cannot be a different opinion if you are playing for a while. If I look at the stuff Survivors had a few years ago and what is left of that nowadays… I mean, people who complain about DS should realize that back in the day you did not even have to be hooked to use DS. Or people who complain about Infinites dont know that back in the day there were ACTUAL infinites and far stronger structures. Same with chained tiles.
There are two main reasons why Killer has become better and better and Survivor has become weaker over time. First of all, more nad more stuff on the Survivor Side gets nerfed. And second, Killers which are released nowadays are just really strong, they have multiple powers, sometimes not really any cooldowns and usually get decent Perks. And if we release Killers which get stronger and stronger, it does not make sense to give Survivors that hefty Nerfs at the same time. I mean, just looking at the past year and this year we had Ghoul (A-Tier), Springtrap (B-Tier), Krasue (A-Tier), The First (A-Tier) and Jason (A-Tier), which is a bunch of strong Killers for 1 1/2 years now, with the weakest being Sprintrap who is still solid. Judgment also does not look like it will be a weak Killer.
Killers are receiving a lot of positive things. Back in the day they only had Nurse and MAYBE Billy as Killers. Now you have plenty of options to choose from if you want a Killer which will win most of your games.
This is getting pretty far away from my point again, I'm not here to argue how effective any given thing will be. Just pointing out that the specific take of BHVR only listening to one side clearly isn't accurate.
Personally, I feel pretty warm towards most of what we've seen here, but it's just gut feeling until we get to play on a PTB.
It's not listening to both sides if one side sees 80% impact and the other sees 20%.
Not listening to complaints and acting on the complaints poorly are radically different criticisms, they're not interchangeable.
I was only speaking on one of them, because right now I would prefer to see some of the exact numbers + see it all in action before I comment on the other. I could very easily see some of this be pretty impactful, but it depends on a few variables.
I think it's worth remembering in these blance mud flinging matches is that survivor balance and killer balance are two different ball parks because it's a you know, asymmetrical game. Killer perks typically have to be stronger because there's just one killer and those perks should be balanced around how it can affect up to the other 4 players. As for Survivor perks, a strong perk can be potentially up 4 times as strong if everyone runs it and that can severely affect the killer. Overall balance has been better now than it has been in the past and with the upcoming balance changes BHVR seems to be taking the diminishing returns more into consideration now so hopefully we'll get to see more individual perks get buffed on both ends but we'll have to wait and see until we get the full patch notes.
Can we just think for a moment, survivors have 16 perks compared to 4 killer perks, they are supposed to be weaker than killer perks, tho currently one survivor meta perk is equal in strength to one killer perk and that's one reason killers need to tunnel, needing to hit a survivor three times cuz you hooked them once is not really the nicest experience (I am talking about dead hard, it's not an anti-tunnel perk cuz it can be used even if killer decides not to tunnel and gives a lot of value for losing), majority of survivor perks actually reward you for losing and those are basically the meta, majority of meta killer perks on the other hand require you to down and also most of the time hook a survivor which means trying to win while survivors can still sabotage or flashlight safe preventing the killer from doing the objective, perks that reward killer for losing are batteries and fire up but they are very weak, also noed but it's often cleansed before you even get a hit.
Sounds like you've boosted your Killer MMR to the point that you can't handle the difficulty of your opponents anymore. Survivor only feels easier for you because your survivor MMR is lower. But wait until you get even more escapes. You'll then find yourself in a lot of losing streaks.