Not even two days and I feel I need to change tactics.
Since yesterday, my games as killers have been a lot of parallel-gens/gens-before-friends.
Of course, with the gen progress indicator allowing accurate timings, this is the easiest way to win.
I guess that now, if I want to get consistent progress the main option is tunnelling from the start, with a side of camping.
Comments
Of course. Endgame-Builds arent good as they were before, cause NOED die faster. Are u getting rewards for not camping? No, you dont have Infos where to go witg Pain Resonance. Distortion rises more and more.
Why running around with a Trapper for example on Red Forest?
Before 6.1.0, you had a reason to leave (Pop), now, u have stacked perks which can be used whenever u want. With stacked CoB, Eruption etc., you have no space for chase-perks.
And so on. Reassurance is another thing.
Tunneling is BY FAR the best strategy, especially after 6.1.0
What a surprise huh? I can't wait until everyone realizes that this so-called QoL (which is a buff to both soloQ and SFW) without counterbalancing the game, will only lead to unbridled tunnelling/camping and will only ever get worse
What else should an M1-D-Tier Killer do? Losing by default? 😅
Of course we will see Tunneling lore and more.
I know and I'm totally in favor of extreme tunneling and all other tactics but it's BHVR's fault that they see a huge buff as a simple QoL without thinking about the consequences. I laugh at those who think that, after such a heavy change (as far as I am in favor of this change), there won't be even more aggressive playstyles.
The change in itself is right and dutiful and also necessary but it should have been accompanied by an opposite balance, for example Corrupt Intervention basekit or other changes, this was not the case and now, slowly, every killer will come to the sole and logical conclusion that he must start tunneling/camping/slugging from the first moment of the game and without any respite if he wants to be able to win, especially if he uses an M1 killer or a weak killer ( sadako ? Freddy ? )
Its fine they give survivors the infos, IF THEY ADJUST KILLERS, especially the bad ones, ASAP.
But we have to wait AT LEAST till next midchapter for anything, because now they need to make money with the next chapter.
More Personal, they need more programmers!
The thing is, the reason of that buff makes sense. But I didn't expect to see a radical change so fast.
I have no idea how they can fix that at the moment. 5 minutes matches are getting old fast.
I've had literally 0 issue since this update, granted I've lost attrition a couple times but that was just a me issue, other than that, I'm still 3-4king people, if you are allowing survivors to crank gens that fast, that is a you problem. Gen progression showing on the HUD now is no different than before.
I find it incredibly hard to believe people are still struggling after queue times being super fast now and lobbies feeling essentially free.
You fail to understand the issue. I've killed all teams I've versed since my post. I've simply stopped playing nice. (With one exception as they had one AFK). I can still raise the bar a couple of times. Certainly once with add-ons, and one more with strong add-ons.
Now I have no choice but play efficiently. It's not fun for me and I'm pretty sure my opponents didn't enjoy it one bit.
I expect the tunnelling complains will rise along with the gen-rush ones.
Ah yeah, the usual "BHVR must buff killers or I will tunnel survivors".
Notice a pattern:
BHVR brings killer-sided patch 6.1. Killers reaction -> "Yeah but still gens go too fast, we have to tunnel to win".
BHVR adds Reassurance. -> "That's it, killer is dead, we'll have to tunnel to win now"
BHVR reveals that killer has a historically high 60% winrate. -> "Yes but still, we have to tunnel otherwise we can't win."
BHVR adds solo queue indicators: "Yep, definitely can't win without tunneling now."
At this point, if you really want to tunnel that bad just do it bro, you don't have to announce it to the world. In fact, you're not fooling anybody, most of you are already hardcore tunneling, and the reason you can't win without tunneling anymore is not because the game is more survivor-sided but just because your MMR has increased and now you're getting matched with tryhards like you...
OP's next post will be something along the lines of "I'm only getting matched against SWFs please BHVR let us dodge and remove MMR".
If survivor is that strong please go play it and also record your gameplay so we can admire your insane win streaks. You're so oblivious to solo queue state that you probably haven't even realized that sloppy/mangled bug makes it unplayable right now, it's a waste of time like it has always been but now you can't even sit at a gen because you're healing and mending and getting erupted every 2 minutes.
Literally EVERYTHING the devs do that isn't hard-buffing killers 'will lead to unbridled tunnelling/camping', because it's the killers' beatstick. It's their answer to literally everything.
with the gen progress indicator allowing accurate timings
Like what does this even mean? Does this person think that people hit better skillchecks now because of this gen progress indicator? What the F are these 'accurate timings' supposed to be?
But no, this minute change is enough to go 'tunnel and camp' some more.
Because literally every change is.
You really need to be stripped of your toys if you're just going to ruin the game for everyone else the second anything happens that you don't like.
You playing "nice" has nothing to do with this update. That is a you issue.
Nothing is stopping you from playing serious or nice.
"It's annoying when survivors just immerse the whole game and I can never find anyone"
"HUD icons? I'm being gen rushed now!!!!!!!!"
It's cause the base Gen regression is too low... and the base Gen progression is too high
Base Gen progression is 1.0-2.2 charge(s) per second
Base Gen regression is .25 charges per second
And even with perks it's only even for 30 seconds.... 30 charges
%s don't matter so don't start with it
Then hitting greats and Gen boosting perks matter
Can you please point out where i said that killers need hard-buffing please ? Don't put words in my mouth. I litteraly said "counterbalancing" meaning if you add something on a side, you should add something on the other side as well. No matter if you think if a batstick or not, that's the status of the game right now, you need to hard tunnel in order to win, more than even with some low tier killers. And you're feel free to don't trust me of course, just see the how the game goes in the following weeks, you will see and increase of tunnelling even more. Why ? Well read what i have just said.
Putting all killers into a group is so weird. Your really going to group myers, wraith, neme and blight in the same group like it means something. Yes that wraith will either be abusing CoB, eruption or tunneling in order to win games. I don't have to play like that and get salt maybe 1 in 20 games as Blight. It's like saying I don't have to be efficient in my 4 man swf with meta perks compared to I have to sweat every game while bringing in flip-flop, UB and power struggle just to escape! It's just such a bad comparison. I can run pig for gens as a relatively bad survivor compared to my killer skill level, that's what makes m1 killers fun to vs for a lot of people.
Not all killers, but yeah, you've summed up the forums pretty well.
This post is a pretty accurate look at the average killer main attitude. Tunneling is a lazy, boring tactic and most killers who play hard to win use it regularly.
So they see high mmr. All of a sudden they are struggling harder as a 50-200 hour killer against survs with 2,000 hours plus. They lean harder & harder into their crutch mechanic. Which makes for very boring games. I had this myself when I first started playing killer. It was incredibly easy to 4k games early on and suddenly I hit an mmr wall filled with bully squads. Took me a while to improve enough to push through that and now I can compete with them fairly evenly.
As someone who plays surv and killer roughly equally, I find survivor much harder to play. It doesn't take many mistakes to lose a game for survs. As killer if you know what you're doing most games are fairly easy.
Which is why I've switched up my killer playstyle. I aim for fun now and don't care about my rankings. And it's great fun. Sure I'll indulge in a little tunneling or facecamping every now and then if I'm against a sweaty team. But as long as survs don't BM I'll usually let one or two go. If I do well I take the game to a point where I know I've won, usually 2 survs alive without gens being finished and then I'll step back, let them finish gens and leave. If survs outplay me then I'll play normally right up to the end. Maybe facecamp one out in the EGC just to secure a kill (often ends up in trading a lot of hooks so plenty of BP) occasionally after trading a few hook states I'll step back from the hook and nod to let the unlucky hookee's team mates to take them off and escape.
I rarely ever tunnel, never in the early game. And tbh I've been loving it. I still get the challenge, it slows my mmr rise so I don't get too many mlg seal team 6s. And it's just a lot of fun, I have a lot of positive interactions with other xbox players (since I can't dm PC or PS players) and it makes the experience more positive.
I even had an oni game where the first surv to die messaged me just after I sacrificed them and I thought "here we go, here comes the tunneling accusation" but they'd sent me a gg WP. And we had a decent chat after. Probably because I didn't tunnel anyone early or facecamp any of them.
Tldr: killer mains need to chill a bit, if you sweat 4ks every game, you'll get sweaty survivors. If you tunnel, you can't complain if survs gen rush.
As if killers aren't tunneling every game to begin with lmao. All of this fear mongering as an attempt to get HUD changes reverted. Tunneling can't get worse than it is when it happens every game.
"casual versus competitive" that's the summary of it all. Either I play casually and lightly and I'm content to stay in the lower part of the game or I play to win and I strive to win, I'm not "friends" with the opponent (in the game of course). Taking it to the extreme it's like sport at an amateur and professional level, if you like to play as an amateur it's your free choice and that's fine, but if I want to play at another level well, it's my choice.
that's why I argue that, instead of this stupid MMR where everyone, both those who want to play casually and those who want to play seriously, are together, there should be two modes "ranked" and "unranked" and everyone would find his oasis of peace
Oh please! Most of you tunnel and camp already (especially since it's much easier to do). We see killers posting this crap after every update, lmao. Just go ahead and do it instead of telling us about it.
I notice more and more often that here people either don't know how to read or they invent things or put words in the mouth of others. I never said that the new HUD should be changed, on the contrary, I said it is an intelligent and necessary change. What I said and it seems obvious to me is that a buff (or QoL if it makes you happier) of this type without a balance on the killer side will necessarily lead to an even more extreme game than it was now. If before, against a SoloQ team I could even afford to play light, now I have to assume that I'm facing an SFW or almost so I have to go heavy.
Then I've never made a secret that, as a style of play, I start tunneling from the first second if I get the chance, I play to win and I'm not ashamed at all
I got told today that I must not have a mortgage cos I tunnelled someone out. While this is true, Can anyone help me find out if this is true with everyone? Do all us people who tunnel have no mortgages? Have I just encountered an economics genius.
I mean in the same conversation I got told B:COH and Dead Hard aren't meta perks but we ignore that part.
But on a proper note, I don't see any issue with tunnelling if you're ok with going against trihards. I struggle a lot now and have resorted to tunnelling early on and it gets me consistently with 2kills+ (I don't run the sweatiest of builds or killers)
Red forest is 1 of Trapper's best realms. Traps spawn at corner is still a thing though.
Ok so what changed? SoloQ needed this, I hope the devs don’t give in to the crybaby killer mains who think they’re entitled to a 4k every match just because they’re the big bad killer. You are playing a 4v1, ofcourse your role will be more stressful than survivor.
Giving more info to survivors doesn’t mean anything if they don’t know what to do with it which means they would do just fine before the hud update too. Maybe learn to accept that sometimes you will play against more skilled opponents and losing is a part of playing games
Its because a Gen of 90% progression dropped to 0 is stupid on its own. Gen progression bar should have 2 check points (30sec & 60sec) that cant regressed further than check points, then the regression speed can be tripple.
the problem with many survivors of this discussion is that they hear but do not listen
I never played an hour of WoW in my life, but I remember that my hardcore WoW friends have complained about one thing constantly over the years: that all the skill have been taken out of the game, that nowadays most mechanics are toned down to much, that even total casuals who somehow end up in the game can compete on the non-mythic levels, because the game nowadays basically play itself.
With DBD I is now me who sees the same thing happening. Of course, every basekit change feels cool, because it is essentially giving you free stuff, thus freeing perk slots that can be used for more effective or flashier toys, instead of boring perks like BT etc. The killer in me would welcome a basekit corrupt intervention, because why shouldn't he? Yes, why shouldn't he? Well, if I want corrupt that badly because I think its needed in the early game, there is a very easy fix to that: just equip the damn perk, its right there in every if my killers loadout selection.
All this asking for basekit fixes from everyone is just doing one thing: watering the game down and holding everyones hand, if they want it or not. How often have you seen survivors running BT in the last couple month? I dont know, maybe two times? That was probably a returning player who just didnt know yet. 10s is enough in the vast majority of situations and 20s if BT is seldom needed. The basekit is so strong that the perk is not needed anymore, thus giving everyone +1 perk slot. And while every basekit perk feels cool and exciting if it is for your favorite role, it dumbs and waters down the game a lot.
Some may say that basekit BT was needed, because of the tunneling epidemic, and this might be true to a certain extent, but its also killing variety and is the lazy patch to a much more complicated problem. Its like dealing out medicine aleviate the symptomes while leaving the decease unchecked.
I have said this more then once on this forums, but one of the most healthy perks for the game was the old BBQ. Every killer had is equipped for the blood point bonus, and many killers indeed based their fun and goal of the game around getting a full set of hooking every survivor at least once instead of kills, but each of these killers were shown opportunities and a lot took them, thus peeling them off the gens.
Decoupling the bloodpoints from the BBQ perk was a somewhat healthy choice, as I rejoyced the new build freedom and not having one perk slot constantly be dedicated to BBQ or shooting myself in the foot via BP gains, but the mechanic should have stayed. If I ever advocate for a killer basekit ability, then it would be BBQ: show the killer one random survivors aura that is at least 24m away and give them a sizable speed boost as long as they move in that direction and arent in chase, making the speed boost disappear once they are within 16m or something of that survivor. This way even slowpoke M1 killers could traverse the map and don't feel that leaving the hook would just be to their detriment.
As a second wave I would give every killer the old BBQ mechanic with a new score event. Call it "Entitys Nibble" or "Finger Food", but basically the killer gets something like +7k BP if they hook every survivor once if everyone is still alive. Maaaaaybe do something like grim embrace, too, ie blocking all gens for a short time and maybe even regressing them, when the 4th survivor is hooked while everyone is still alive. This way the killer might want to actually not tunnel one survivor out of the game asap? Tunnelers gonna tunnel, but some killers might actually adapt to a more healthy playstyle this way.
But don't make something basekit "just because" and as a lazy fix, have some plan behind it and do it with a bit of panache.
I only sorta tunneled. It was late in the game, and I wasn't paying attention.
I actually have a mortgage.
After that she thanked me for entertaining her group for twenty minutes and promised to mail crumpets.
This new hud has cured the game.
Absolutely agree. I've mentioned about a ranked/casual split a fair few times on the forums. Even made a thread about it
It would hugely improve the game for the most part. Because the current melting pot of a playlist is an absolute mess. Survs complain about being tunneled, facecamped and slugged by salty BMing killers. Killers complain about being genrushed, bodyblocked and torch bullied by salty BMing survivors. 2 separate playlists based on how you want to play at the time would be nice.
The other issue is that as an asymmetric game, getting the balance right at higher levels of play is going to be extremely tricky. A team of 4 extremely good survivors is going to be a nightmare to play against for most killers. And a basically competent killer is going to absolutely take apart a team of mediocre/new survivors. Just look at tournament rules, there are certain disallowed perks etc which shows the game is unbalanced at a base level.
What world do you live in where Gens before friends was not happening in your games?
If gens get finished while someone is on the hook I respond by moving closer to the hook. They made it clear they want to finish part of their objective so I have to do the same thing.
It's really quite simple.
The smart and easy thing to do would be to nerf SWF. Add the rule : no character/perk/item/offering repeats in a SWF. Lock all changes except costume while in queue. Add a perk display while in the SWF lobby so you can see other players perk loadout.
They wont do that because survivors are would pout. The forum would have 27 pages of "revert the swf nerf."
Instead they buffed solo queue to make solo players more efficient. I was already hard core tunneling every game anyway before this update. How do I tunnel more to compensate?
DBD has not been a fair game for a long time. Nurse and Blight ruin the game for casual survivors. SWF ruins the game for casual killers making only Nurse and Blight viable against SWF. This is a feedback loop that makes everyone more unhappy.
Nerf all three things that are way too good and then bring the bad killers up to where they are about 15% weaker than nerfed Nurse/Blight.
Oh, it happened but it wasn't too common and it was a riskier venture except for SWFs (the bigger the better). I didn't mind as I could punish it dearly.
My issue is that for some reason that's almost all I'm getting (except for the full-newbies group that sometimes pop in my trial after I lose a couple of matches : talk about adding insult to injury.)
I'm not sure how to fix this. I play both roles and it's obvious these changes are a positive thing for the solos. But on another hand, as killer I can only play efficiently now. This is getting stale fast.
I've watched a recent video from the Otzdarva guy. What he says in it makes sense. I used to play "nice" most of the time, except against bullies, at least for the past 2k hours (I've got more than 3k).
I'm not sure I'll dare to play survivor anymore. I find games usually quite relaxing compared to killer but it the trend goes full tunnel, I will not like it so much, I think.
Oh, and nerfing the good things is a recipe for diaster. Buffing the weaker parts is the way.
You seem to love referring to 'killers' as if one low-credibility account is representative of even a loose majority.
Also - that wasn't even what he said.
Define 'most'.
I'm now creeping up on 1,000 games in my dataset.
Camping games outside of it being a desperation move (and I don't think even you'd be so petty as to get salty with a killer for trying to camp out a single kill) are barely even double digits (12).
Tunneling games...not even 10%.
@drsoontm is one of the most patient, genuinely objective people on these forums in my limited experience.
Watching what comes crawling out of the woodwork to completely miss their point, deflect, make borderline personal attacks, and then draw ridiculous strawman comparisons against them is both entertaining and a sad reflection of how this community operates when they can't evolve.
Most of what I read on these forums is both entertaining and ridiculous and why I'm barely on these forums anymore.
Also @ me next time.
We all knew what OP meant, as if it hasn't been a topic forever.
Why would I @ you?
Watching what comes crawling out of the woodwork to completely miss their point, deflect, make borderline personal attacks, and then draw ridiculous strawman comparisons against them is both entertaining and a sad reflection of how this community operates when they can't evolve.
hm
Just so I'm understanding, there's no reason to @ you. You just want it anyway?
This right here is exactly what I was worried about. Like OP, I'm ok with the update and the changes it makes. However, BHVR will need to update killer side of things quickly, otherwise nothing will objectively change. Killers will still tunnel because it is by and large the best strategy these days. I might get flamed for saying this, but I also think that adding a gen progress bar is a bit too much info to have. Maybe just an indicator that a survivor is working on a gen, but knowing how much progress a gen has is too valuable of information too have. I've already won games because I know where a survivor is and how much progress the gen they are working on has.
There's no reason to arbitrarily defend someone when they made a refutable claim, but hey.
So you don't want to be @?
-"I'm not sure how to fix this."
Survivors got base kit anti tunneling but killers did not. We need Base kit deadlock with rollback protection. If two gens get completed then one rolls back to 99% completion. Make the perk by the same name extend the blockage for +30 seconds (60 total).
Only an ignorant person is going to say that survivors rushing their objective does not require the killer to rush their objective.
Your argument is a red herring. Nothing will stop killers from camping/tunneling except direct punishments to those playstyles. Patch 6.1 was great for killers and what did it do—it made camping & tunneling more common. Let’s stop pretending that handicapping survivors is gonna make killers tunnel and camp less. No one believes that—not even you.
There's no need to let us know that you, like at least 70% of the crybabies killer in here, are so lacking in skill issues that you have to resort to tunnelling/camping to try and get the 4k you so desperately deserve (and you are entitled to). Obviously it's the addition of dots to the side of the survivor icons that's sure to make you lose a lot of matches, and not because you may find yourself playing as you go up MMR with more and more skilled people, it's so hard to admit you're not up to scratch isn't it?
As if killers didn't already tunnel since the beginning of the ages then... you know what's new
I do believe it. The reason why tunneling is so popular is because other killer strats got gutted. Want to camp? Survivors learn to ignore the hooked and do gens or use reassurance. Want to do hit and run? CoH and medkits will make them heal up in no time. What does that leave killers, when gens are only getting faster? If you aren't an s-tier killer, you will not 4k without relying on slowdown perks or tunneling. I encourage you to play killer for a session and see for yourself.
I was just trying to be respectful about it. I just started maining killer this past week and it still feels the same before this update: I don't feel pressured or forced to play a certain way and can still play however I want. Obviously, survivors are doing gens now, but it is still literally the same as before.
And with queue times being super fast after this update and MMR feeling like it doesn't exist currently, I just don't get how people are still struggling. People get this premonition from a change that it's going to "force" them to play a certain way because everyone is just going to become gencrankerpro9000 gods when that is so not true. I am still going against people who hide, bully squads, or people who do gens but aren't that great at looping so it's just easy gen pressure and downs. Even the current gen layouts make it super easy for killer.
Tunneling/slugging went from being strategically used to just abused because killers are too lazy to get better.
The best way of punishing gens before friends is by confirming second stages and that is very easy since they try to wait for the last possible moment until they have to save.
I had a match as Billy on dead dawg. Mid game I hooked a Yui and she was second stage. Now while I chased a survivor I noticed that a Meg was walking (she had sprint burst) towards the hook and the Yui was about to die. So I capitalized on that and chainsaw sprinted towards the hook downing Meg when she was about to unhook the Yui. Yui died and now I had a much bigger pressure. This mistake was what cost them the game. And this is literally the deciding factor in almost all of my games. I lose because I'm too nice and allow them to prioritize them to do gens before unhooking even though I should punish that. More and more survivors are trying this high risk high reward strategy of unhooking late so they can do gens so I should capitalize on that as killer.
Am I blushing? 😊
This is exactly what I wrote in another post. This update is indeed a QoL change, however the information does correlate with strength as well. There is no denying that. That has always been the biggest strength of SWFs. Now with this update we will see a shift in scales. How much I cannot say but I doubt the 60% kill rates will still be a thing and I predict the kill rates for slower pacing killers to be way lower.
Buffing SoloQ efficiency will prove exactly why killers complain about 'gen rush'. The game can easily end in less than 5 minutes. With some of the lower tier killers and even mid tier killers you're happy, if you can get a hit in the first 60 seconds of a match. Efficiency is a killer's biggest weakness. They aren't really supposed to tunnel, so there is anti-tunnel perks. With BT base kit we cleared up space in the survivors's perk slots as well, which allows for another Prove Thyself, CoH or whatever. Creating dead zones is a thing of the past. I remember starting to play the game and not being to unhappy with giving up a hit for a few pallets. Now this isn't enough anymore. The game will long be over before you can get through their resources, which leaves survivors's mistakes as the only option for most killers to somehow slow down the game. Camping is countered by gen efficiency and Reassurance. Hit and run doesn't work since CoH and it's gotten worse with the inflation of items and addons we see. Normal chasing is not enough. The killer can't magically go through walls (except Nurse) to make the chase end quicker. All of this means that killers find themselves with a lot of options, all of them being bad in their own way. Tunneling, however is the strategy with the most potential.
Though, I don't think BHVR will let it get to out of hand and eventually react with further killer buffs. Maybe they'll even realize that 25% base regress is absolutely abismal and nerfing perks that encouraged more healthy play styles without other incentives for those isn't a smart choice.
My issue is I am not even tunneling or camping, at least not what I consider being such (and I play survivor too, so you know, I kinda have that going for me to determine if I would be mad at a killer doing what I am doing) but apparently I am because...
Well, this happens:
I've had a total of 2 survivors escape since the update dropped (I know, I'm on a magical server and my hidden number must be -5 or something). Seeing gen progress without gen locations is not all that meaningful in the grand scheme of things. It's QoL, but it's not putting anyone over the top. If someone said "my gen is at 50%", I'd ask them what gen they were on, because progress alone tells me nothing if I'm in a chase and need to know what to avoid.
i dont get why people are always saying "iM LOsInG aLL tHe tiMe aND i gUeSs i hAVe tO cAmP aNd tUnNeL tO wIN nOw" ive never been a sweaty player for kills, ive never played toxic just because, and i dont have an issue with having to play dirty to win.
for me 0k is a loss, 1k is a tie, 2k+ is a definitive win, if you think differently ok, but if youre having a bad time and you start playing like a stank because its the easiest way to win thats on you, not on the people you lose against
and only sometimes on the devs for weird game but we love the devs theyre great