KFChris18
KFChris18
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3890230#Comment_3890230
wait that actually happened?
Me and a few friends loaded into a match and there was a rift skin dracula. Whoever was playing as him got dc'd but the bot still chased us around. It was wild
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I already saw a hacker play as Dracula in the last 2v8 so he would likely work
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Survivor sided, without question. The fact that yellow herbs exist is all the evidence you need. However, with MMR being non-active in this mode, the real question becomes, "are these survivors able to take advantage of these"? I will give BHVR some credit for not only adding killers, but also encouraging them to really work together. A lot of successful killer teams I have encountered have got that nailed down and it shows. Still fun event!!!!!!
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Gonna add my personal experience here. Lack of MMR this event is showing for sure, but I would not rush to call the bots useless just yet. I was having games where the bots were not only useful, but also managed to escape with the rest of us as well. That being said, when bots are unhelpful, they are REALLY unhelpful.
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Personally, I have come to despise MMR. Not because of what it does (debatable if it even has an impact these days), but because of the shift in mindset it caused. Its not like people weren't competitive beforehand, but MMR seemingly brought out the worst in people who wanted to "win" at all costs. It pushed out people who were playing the game for the sake of having fun and replaced them with folks who only play to win. I genuinely feel like that was when DBD transitioned from being a party game to the sweat fest it is now.
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I can't think of too many bad things to say about it. It's neat to see them add new environmental loops instead of the the same old tiles. The tunnel from the tower to main building is also a nice touch. Some of the loops in the main building, especially the upstairs, seem a bit unsafe, but after dealing with grave of glendale's main building and others, it feels good not to have a stupidly strong main building. In summary, one of the better maps BHVR has given us in a hot minute!
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Map offerings as a whole need to go the way of the dodo. They were fine at the start of DBD (since back then there were way fewer maps to go around and were fairly even in terms of balance), but as it currently stands, they are just another way for one side to gain an advantage over the other before the game even begins. Besides, how boring do you have to be to only go to the same map over and over again? DBD's gameplay loop is at its best when things are random.
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Most of us don't have a problem with anti-tunnel perks IF they're used to punish tunneling killers. Unfortunately, survivors will often use these perks offensively, such as body blocking you when you attempt to chase the person who saved them. Granted this isn't nearly as bad as it used to be (think old, pre-nerf DS and UB), but it is extremely annoying when you try to play nice.
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dear lord that is diabolical
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This would absolutely kill every aura perk in the game. The entire point of Aura reading perks is to catch survivors by surprise, just like how flashbangs, Background Player, Head On etc, are meant to catch killers off guard. Once you know that these perks are in play, you adjust to it like you would in any other game. Part of learning DBD is using in-game clues to deduce what perks each side has and play around them. Taking that away not only dumbs down gameplay, but it also makes it much less exciting.
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Yes and No. Slugging as it is has become popular since it avoids lots of survivor perks that activate on hook, as well as being a time saver. If you can get downs fast enough (via Blight/Nurse etc.) you could end games in record time. However, Survivors can have perks that hard counter slugging (Unbreakable, Boon Exponential, WGLF etc), not to mention how much being on coms helps.
The reason why it is seemingly meta is that while Survivors do have tools to counter it, most choose not to bring them, since hardcore slugging is not as widespread as the 4-slowdown, tunnel off hook tactics of your average killer nowadays. If it DOES become meta, then I imagine people will start bringing counters. Its just that right now, exhaustion + gen speed is the preferred Survivor meta. Hope this helps!
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I'd say Off The Record is your best bet here. Endurance to protect from tunneling and its a poor man's distortion while it is active. you could also run Iron Will since I see you have resilience for chase purposes
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Since Killers receive no reward for not tunneling and since it is far and away the best way to win games, why wouldn't they do it? Same thing goes for survivor. If the best way to win is complete gens fast or waste the killer's time, then why wouldn't they bring perks like DH and DS or BNP toolboxes. Its a nasty cycle that would require BHVR to make some major changes, both to perks/items and the core gameplay to fix. The only thing any of us can do is play the game how we want it to be played and not expect our opposition to play how we want them to. Its just the way the game is.
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I cannot play Trickster if my life depended on it. Something about his knives just makes my brain shut down.
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@HEX_DEAD_BY_AI said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735548#Comment_3735548
Haha, look at the list of games he designed, does anyone play them? And those games belong to the fighting, puzzle and boardgame genres, which have nothing to do with this. Be aware that the things stated in his book were intended to make him sell the games, but the result was still a failure.
You ask me why…?!! Hey buddy, it was you who fought me first. Read the previous comments, you are also the one who explained your bad play with the reason that survivors use pallet saves, flashlight saves, DS... And I just point out why that is a wrong comparison: your bad playstyle is the thing even a newbie can do, but survivors' stuff as you listed are things that must be practiced a lot to master.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735466#Comment_3735466
Ok, it's like playing football in the neighborhood, you can play as 'toxic' as you want. I get it 🙂. Your choice, bro
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735591#Comment_3735591
So can I ask for the records (a social link, YT, etc.) of the DBD tournament that you organized where the candidates compete to win in bad ways? And the DBD movie of Blumhouse doesn't seem to have an official release date yet, right? Anw, it's just like a LOL movie, the events in the movie cannot be compared to the context in the game match, one side is a story-based movie, the other side is game matches. Truly, many players confuse applying pressure (when faced with a bully team) and camping (all the time, in every single match).
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735558#Comment_3735558
"I haven't been seeing sabo squads nearly as much as I assumed I would" » » » Exactly bro!!
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735618#Comment_3735618
Ya, we share the same experience with 'hailxsatanxeveryxday'.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735642#Comment_3735642
Thanks for the information that I missed. ELO or whatever, anyway, the players matching system must still result in an even match where players will end up facing opponents at the same level, not perfectly, but as balanced as possible.
I have to admit, I have met many killers who mastered their basekit (especially the Nurse, the Huntress and the Deathslinger), and also met a few high-skilled survivors, even their chase carried up to 5 gens (sounds crazy, but it's true). Really admire them!!
First of all I am a caster. Casters are like sports commentators so we do not organize the leagues. That honor goes to people like Direwolf and Rey. As for links, just search DBDLeague on twitch. Vods are public and they have a youtube channel of the same name. You could also watch the Hens33 Spring Inivitational, since it uses largely the same structure of tournaments. Also, what the hell does the Blumhouse movie have anything to do with what I said earlier?
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@HEX_DEAD_BY_AI said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3734989#Comment_3734989
Really? Do you watch tournaments? Sometimes people confuse applying pressure (when faced with a bully team) and camping. No one wants to watch a boring tournament with only bad tricks to win.
And to correct myself, I'm not the one saying that DS, pallet save, flashlight save... are "bad play", but this guy:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3733663#Comment_3733663
And, here is "bad play" on survivors side, as my clear answer for him:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3733739#Comment_3733739
I summarize:
- Flashlight save, pallet save, looping,… Those are skills that need a lot of practice to master. It can't be compared with camping, tunneling and slugging which any newbie can do. So, people want to watch, to sub, to be a fan of teams or pro players who have skilled performance.
- "Bad play" on survivors side are considered hatch players, or holding-hostage players. They only hide, don't want to do anything, ignore teammates, leave teammates to carry or die, and then try to survive and escape alone. If there are at least 2 of them in a trial, it brings an extremely bad experience to killers. The trial can even take long an hour.
As a matter of fact, im a caster for several leagues, so I think I know a few things about tournaments. You on the otherhand have very clearly never watched one. I suggest DBDLeague if you want to see what a top tier league looks like.
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@HEX_DEAD_BY_AI said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3734348#Comment_3734348
That's right, I don't have the right to decide that. Because, a decent player realizes that this is something they should not do, which is why we often don't see such bad actions in tournaments, as well as in high-sub channels. Just like not being a hatch player, not being a holding-hostage player is respecting your teammates' and killers' experience.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3734610#Comment_3734610
Ya, it's true 😎. I took a screenshot of a reply above:
Just want to add something here about about pro tournament play. I'm not sure where you are getting the idea that there is no "bad play" in tourneys. If anything, "bad play" is the standard. Nearly every match without fail inolves the killer camping, tunneling, and/or slugging. It isn't bad play for the otherside to try to win! Also this obviously applies for survivors as well. Weaponizing DS, predropping pallets, body blocking and genrushing is not "bad play", its players trying to win!
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TBH, I find that my teammates are what makes solo q feel miserable more often than not. Not in the sense that "oh these guys are terrible and don't know what to do", more like "why are you giving up now? We have 2 gens left and the killer only has two hooks on different people!"
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3567274#Comment_3567274
That's hilariously dumb.
Comp DBD continues to be the strangest thing.
It was put in place to prevent teams from suiciding on hook to deny points or to give their teammates hatch
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@Katzengott said:
I wonder how the anti-camp features are effecting comp and tournaments. Last time i watched, there was A LOT camping.
Since the feature doesn't force you to jump off hook, comp just banned it. You're already not allowed to try to kobe unless you have deliverance anyway.
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Short answer: Its not toxic. People just have no patience for anything that slightly inconveniences them.
Long Answer: Slugging is not in itself. Most people who whine about being slugged aren't being left for 4 minutes, usually around 1 and 2 at max while the killer hunts down a hiding teammate. Are there people that leave survivors slugged for that time for no reason than to mess with them? Sure. But IMO that is no different than survivors tbagging at hatch or waiting for the killer to see them leave. Literally just scroll on your phone if you find yourself in that situation. You aren't being held hostage. The killer did not load up the match to ruin your fun specifically. They just want to get that final kill, which is part of the objective.
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As much as I hate to say it, you've got a point. DBD as a casual experience is pretty awful right now, regardless of which side you choose to play. The end result of BHVR not knowing what they want their game to be, resulting in the balancing/matchmaking nightmare we've had to deal with. The other side is unfortunately the community themselves. Far too many people take losses soooo seriously and far too many people cannot resist gloating after a dub. This isn't unique to a certain role, both are at fault here.
The only way I can see the casual scene recover is if two things happen: First, have BHVR crack down hard on toxicity. Instead of using the censor system (which functions about as well as a condom in a convent) start saving EG chats and ban the people who say disgusting things. Second, have them implement rewards for being positive. Maybe something similar to OW endorsement system, where you used to get a reward after enough positive reviews.
I'm not sure what the right thing to do is, but something needs to change
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While I will be the first to support an end to facecamping, since I don't like it much myself, this is NOT the way to address it. 16 meters is far to wide of a space to have the meter build up. It also should stop completely if the survivor is in range, not slow down, as well as not go through floors.
Its also effectively stops killers from defending an objective, the hooked survivor, similar to how Eruption used to lock out survivors from doing anything. Picture you, as a killer, get two hooks close to one another, without camping a survivor. Should you just leave half the hooked team to look for someone or should you defend your two hooks? With the change, you would no longer have a choice: you HAVE to leave or lose your hooks.
Or imagine if you hook a survivor close to a three-gen or a zone you want to protect. You are now being punished for defending two objectives at once. There are simply too many scenarios where this mechanic unfairly punishes killers for playing DBD or where it can be exploited by survivors.
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@crogers271 said:
@Skill_issue is really the master of these posts to get us all arguing over the same thing again.
killers proximity camping a survivor (especially when the other survivors are injured or there are gens nearby that are regressing/can be patrolled) or in the rare case of a killer having two survivors on a hook close to each other...why would the killer leave to go find another survivor? it makes no logical sense...if two survivors proximity camp a gen (1 leading the killer on a chase so the 2nd can loop back and finish the gen) why is it seen as bad for the killer p.o.v. but not from the survivor p.o.v. when it is the exact same scenario?Because we are talking about game fun and those scenarios are not at all alike. Being camped is never fun. It's important to note not just in the 'losing' sense of not being fun. Getting taken down by a NOED while running for an open gate is rage invoking, but it's really exciting. Getting camped is just boring.
That's the difference. The game is meant to invoke tension and stress. If an element of the game fails at that objective, which camping definitely does and tunneling kind of can do, it should be removed. A flashlight save squad can be infuriating, but infuriating is better than boring and there are things that you can do. A gen rush squad makes the killer sweat for even a 1k, but again there is something as killer to try for.
Killers on this forum talk about how hard the game can be and how much they have to push themselves. Survivor complaints revolve around how boring and tedious certain situations can be. It should be obvious why a game designer would be far more worried about the latter scenario.
Other minor points
1: Only SWFs can really gen rush to maximum ability, while every killer player can camp if they wish.
2: Killers have said they don't care about survivors fun enough that BHVR has taken them at their word.
3: As @Pulsar has said, there is nothing else for survivors to do but gens. Even if, hypothetically, I wanted to play a 'let's 99 all the gens in the game' strategy it would only be possible if every other survivor was on board for it. The killer has complete control over how they play the game.
4: The survivors being in a rush fit the games theme. In a horror movie the normal characters are trying to get out as quickly as possible. Killers in horror movies hunt, stalk, surprise - they don't play defense (3 gen) or just ignore the other survivors (camp).
You have some points here. Getting camped is boring, since there is little input from the hooked survivor. I would posit that losing several gens following the first chase/hook is equally as unfun as the killer to. I would also say that putting the burden of "fun games" on the killer is a bit hypocritical when survivors will very rarely do the same. That burden falls on the devs. Their goal is to make games fun for everyone, not just survivors or killers.
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I'm fine with the bot changes. If you play around in customs, you come to learn pretty quickly that they aren't fantastic (shoutout to bots being stuck on z-walls).
Im more concerned about the facecamping changes. 16 meters is not facecamping, its proxy camping. The range needs to be much shorter, otherwise we're going to see the same thing that happened the last time the devs tried a camping fix: survivors abusing it to guarantee free unhooks/removing all pressure killers gain from hooking someone. This announcement coming at a time where gen regression is in its worst spot in years and genrush perks being added makes me very nervous for the future. The only way imo that this could work is if survivors (and most maps) receive HEAVY nerfs to gen efficiency and chase times. You have to make it so chasing a survivor is a faster way to kill them than camping out a hook. Otherwise, those 2021 numbers are going to look tame in comparison.
TLDR: You can't remove camping without giving killers a better option for removing survivors
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Because people go into games with unrealistic expectations aka entitlement. They expect their opponents to play in a specific way and forget that there are living people on the other side thinking the same thing. Then they get frustrated that a killer/survivor isn't playing the way they want and act surprised that insults/harassments won't convince said player to play any differently.
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@Lobos said:
If you are going to camp, tunnel, bring annoying or overpowered builds, and play a OP killer in a obnoxious way then don't queue up. See how easy that solves the problem?
You are just as likely to get an Eruption+CoB, Pain Res NOED killer as you are to get a baby trapper who bought the game an hour ago. DBD is by its nature, random. If you cannot accept that you MIGHT get a killer running meta perks( how dare someone use META!), then do not bother queing up. I accept that whether I'm killing or surviving. Do you?
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@Audiophile said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3335340#Comment_3335340
Point not missed. You just choose to ignore my point.
but what is your point tho? Also, you didn't answer my question. What do you define as playing fair? I'm not trying to be mean, I'm genuinely curious?
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3335054#Comment_3335054
Your argument is a red herring. Nothing will stop killers from camping/tunneling except direct punishments to those playstyles. Patch 6.1 was great for killers and what did it do—it made camping & tunneling more common. Let’s stop pretending that handicapping survivors is gonna make killers tunnel and camp less. No one believes that—not even you.
I do believe it. The reason why tunneling is so popular is because other killer strats got gutted. Want to camp? Survivors learn to ignore the hooked and do gens or use reassurance. Want to do hit and run? CoH and medkits will make them heal up in no time. What does that leave killers, when gens are only getting faster? If you aren't an s-tier killer, you will not 4k without relying on slowdown perks or tunneling. I encourage you to play killer for a session and see for yourself.
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@Audiophile said:
Gee… A Blight Main is wondering why all the suiciding…. This has been addressed by me and many others for maybe a year at least. Here’s my short reply:
Stop Playing Blight. Stop playing all OP builds and play something fair. Stop acting like every game is vs a sweaty swf when the fact is most games are against poorly matched solo teams. Play fair. Take some losses. Slowly the quitting may improve.
Way to completely miss the point of my post. I stand by my post. If you cannot handle a bad start, then don't q and ruin it for everyone else. Also, I was not aware that shadowborn, agitation, pain res and lethal pursuer was OP and "not fair". Pray tell, what would be "playing fair"?
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@Phantom_ said:
As much as I agree that it is very annoying when that happens, you can't force people to play a certain way or to stay in a game they don't want to, and in some cases can't stay in.
If it's too bothersome maybe team up with friends or play something else that doesn't make you dependent on others in the game 🤷
Fair points, but I respectfully disagree with the spirit of it. When you press the ready up button, you accept that you could run into any number of killers/builds. That is something that every survivor must reckon with. Finding yourself in a bad situation in the start of the match is not an appropriate reason to give up. Not only are you cutting yourself short of BP you might otherwise earn, but you effectively ruin the match for the other 3 people you are teamed up with. It is the height of selfishness to leave after first hook/down and leave your teammates to fight a losing battle. Those are the people this post is aimed at. If a player cannot handle a bad start, then they should not be playing in the first place.
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@Wexton said:
Agreed, I keep going into lobbies where survivors will suicide on first hook. What cardinal sin did I commit? I found them crouched and trying to hide in a stupid place. Most of the time I just catch them early too, idk what goes through there head when they suicide 3 minutes into a game.
You get three minutes? I'm jealous!
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@VoidOfMe said:
I feel like this thread is made every day here, is there really a hook suicide pandemic going on?
It feels like it tbh. I typically play at least 3 survivor games a day during the week. Without fail at least one of those three games has someone give up.
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As much as I would love to not receive hate mail, being able to check profiles must remain a thing for one reason only: Reporting blatant and subtle cheaters
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This right here is exactly what I was worried about. Like OP, I'm ok with the update and the changes it makes. However, BHVR will need to update killer side of things quickly, otherwise nothing will objectively change. Killers will still tunnel because it is by and large the best strategy these days. I might get flamed for saying this, but I also think that adding a gen progress bar is a bit too much info to have. Maybe just an indicator that a survivor is working on a gen, but knowing how much progress a gen has is too valuable of information too have. I've already won games because I know where a survivor is and how much progress the gen they are working on has.
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I feel like OP is completely missing the point of why they lost. If a teammate quit at the start of the match, then of course you're going to lose. It doesnt matter what killer you vs, 3v1 with more than 2 gens to complete is a stretch for most players. Demanding that blight be nerfed because your teammate didnt want to play the game is the absolute wrong conclusion. As far as him being "OPAF", that is an exaggeration. OPAF is something like launch legion or forever freddy. Blight is one of the few killers that force survivors to play around their power and is a good thing! In an ideal world, all killers would be able to do this. Survivors SHOULD be wary of taking chases with killer, because they are not meant to be able to 1v1 the killer. Don't get me wrong, Alch ring, c33 and adrenaline vial to a lesser extent need tune ups, but nerfing his basekit? Now that's insanity!
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Blight. Been my favorite killer for over a year now. I don't know if I can bring myself to do it again tho, the grind was several months.
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My go to for a while has been Shadowborn, Lethal Pursuer, Agitation, and Pain Resonance. Agitation gives you near constant access to scrouge hooks and works surprisingly well against sabo squads too. I prefer double speed, but just starting out I'd recommend Blighted Crow and Compound 21 for speed/aura reading+Lethal.
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Its really weird right now. As a killer, I'm starting to see some fairly old school stuff from survivors. Heck, the old DS,UB,DH, Adrenaline builds seem to be making a comeback. Killer also feels relatively stable, which is odd since killer meta traditionally gets shaken up way more often by patches. COB and Eruption is starting to grate nowadays, but I'm sure a nerf is coming the way of eruption in the near future. Hopefully it is accompanied by gameplay changes that make sure neither side feels obligated to bring hard meta.
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Unfortunately its the symptoms of an old game. At the start, people DID meme around for the most part. As time goes on, people get better and their opponents adapt to it. The problem with new players is that there is no safety net to help new players learn the ropes, especially on survivor. Having bots will help a lot in this regard, but until then the new player experience will be awful on both sides.
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Here's my take. Getting slugged sucks, especially when its at the end of the game and there's no realistic chance of escape. But ultimately, it doesn't last forever. There is nothing wrong with a killer wanting to kill everyone in the game, its there job after all. Just like there is nothing wrong with survivors wanting to get all 4 of them out. It is not "malicious" or "morally wrong" to try to win a pvp video game. If you hate being slugged, there are perks to help avoid it. I personally dont slug for the 4th but I won't pile hate on people who do.
Also, I think the basekit UB/Last Stand Mori is a really bad idea. Not only does it encourage more slugging( despite the fact its supposed to stop it) but it is also fixing a problem that is entirely BHVR's own creation. No one, and I repeat, NO ONE thought that moris are overpowered in their current state. If you are getting mori'd then you would be dead anyways or a killer had to devote a precious perk slot to make it possible. Basekit BT is fine and probs should have been in the game from the get-go, but basekit UB will straight up kill several playstyles and killers (see Twins, Oni, etc). If BHVR has any sense they will ditch this idea and head back to the drawing board to create new solutions that dont assassinate player freedom.
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Handing out free to perks to people is not going to change camping and tunneling. As long as killing 1 survivor fast remains the best option for killers to gain control of the match, that is exactly what they are going to do. Survivors are going to complete gens as fast as they can because that is the best way for them to win too. This has been the reality for years and both sides have gotten tools to counter both as time goes on. Look at what either side is doing, figure out how to counter it, then take the time to learn instead of complaining. Once you do that, the game will start to feel much better.
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I see it fairly often in my games, but I don't flame the killer for it. The way gen speeds are and with survivors slowly but surely improving, any killer that isn't Blight or Nurse can't afford to spread hooks like they used to, unless the survivors royally messed up. I also don't think it ruins the game anymore than survivors completing two gens in the first 2 minutes of a match does. In a PVP game doing your objective quick is what people do to win. Killers that camp and tunnel are no different from survivors who bring BNP, map offerings and syringes. It doesn't make people less skilled by doing any of those things, they just want to win. The sooner that both sides stop taking matches so personally and learn to move on the better.
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Dead Hard was 100% a crutch perk for far too many people. People are just going through pains learning how to loop without it. Plus, if you ask me, the reason survivor feels so miserable isnt because of the changes, but because people throw tantrums and ragequit when things dont go their way. The sooner the quitters and crybabies leave and people who want to actually play take there place, the sooner things will improve. Until then, stay strong my friends!
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@threeQuinn said:
I've experienced killers camping more since the update, and I'm unsure why. They don't need to, the killer experience is overall better now I feel, and I've had a Nurse with a meta build camp my teammate on 5 gens with a DC in team. It's like the overall mind state of the community has degraded since the update (not to the update's fault), and I think the root is the survivor players that constantly DC and suicide on first hook causing everyone to be unhappy.
I have noticed this as well. Lots of survivors DCing early into a match ruins it for everyone. It makes you wonder why they readied up in the first place if they're just gonna quit.
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Honestly, I don't think those kinds of folks are looking to achieve anything really. Ragequitting/ giving up isn't a logical decision, its an emotional one. Which brings up what I think is the real reason why people aren't liking the new patch. Its not because its a bad patch, far from it imo. Both sides got things they were asking for (DH nerf, BT basekit, new anti-tunnel methods, baseline killer buffs). I think the problem is people's attitudes, particularly certain survivors. Survivor meta for better or worse has remained unchanged for years. In that time the only thing that changed is having new, strong perks introduced with very few and far between nerfs. As a result, people got complacent with their tools and are now struggling to adjust. Lots of people, killers and survivors alike, are now realizing just how much they relied on certain perks to succeed in games. Now they are being forced to learn new tactics and run different builds. The issue is many of them dont want to try and learn new tactics. The patch was meant to shake up a stagnant meta and it most certainty did. Folks just need to deal with it.
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I don't have a problem with DS these days, since using it forces a survivor to be useless to get value. DH is busted with i frames and distance at a survivors discretion. How it has remained virtually unchanged for alll this time is beyond me. UB isnt too bad, but can really kill your pressure late game when you need it most. BT is healthy I think, unless its used to body block you when you try to chase the unhooker. Disable the perk for protection hits and we're all good. I also second the suggestion that there be some form of visual indicator that a survivor has these perks so killers dont have to play mimd games if a suevivor has x of these perks.
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I tend to use it on my blight with NWO, Corrupt and BBQ. Its a feel good perk since it provides a downside to being injured for survivors. That being said, I think it really only works on killers that can spread hits easily like plague and legion. I only use it because I can get away with it as blight.
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My concern isnt so much with BT as a perk, but the fact that it is a 5th META perk that all survivors will have access to from the start. What perk would you replace bt with if it was basekit? For me, it'd be prove thyself or COH. That is the real problem with this idea. It gives survivors even more tools to work with when killers are already pressed for advantages
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@Icaurs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2921327#Comment_2921327
.... You should be losing at least 1-2 generators at the start... that's balanced. Do you not understand how killer works?
Yes because survivors completing 20-40% of their objective while the killer completes less than 9% of theirs is fair and balanced. The only way that scenario works out is if the survivors mess up big time and misses a three gen or they get altruistic. Either way, the match becomes less about strong killer gameplay and more about survivors playing poorly. Imo, it should be the other way around.