KFChris18
KFChris18
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- KFChris18
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Killers can no longer afford to spread hooks these days. With first chases costing at least one, two or three gens if you're unlucky and circle of healing rendering injuries moot, killer have to commit to the tunnel or lose any pressure they might gain. If games weren't so fast then there would be less overall tunneling, but until the game slows down, expect lots of tunneling and camping. Thats just the reality of DBD right now.
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There's nothing wrong with a killer slugging in general, much less for a 4k. Survivors take it far too personally in my experience. If I slug you, its not because I want to ruin your day specifically, I just want to kill everyone!
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Blight: My favorite boi with green speed
Call of Brine: Portable ruin that can be applied to multiple generators at once
Corrupt Intervention: Early game slowdown
No Way Out: End game back-up
Thanatophobia: Surprisingly viable and can mean the difference between gen pops
I tend to play a hit and run blight and while boons do hurt big time, thanatophobia makes them heal after every chase or take the slowdown. I've won games thanks to its slowdown.
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Strongly disagree here. Blight is damn hard to play properly and requires in depth map knowledge and an understanding of bump logic to have consistent results. He's one of those killers you need to play yourself to understand what he can and cannot do. Once that's done, countering him becomes surprisingly fun. As for huntress, that sounds like a problem on your end. Yes, her hatchets have refrigerator sized hitboxes, but once you know that you can play around it. Most sus hits in my experience happen when you are out in the open and in that case the survivor messed up. Just practice more against her instead of demanding nerfs. DBD has far bigger problems than a mid-A tier killer having some odd throws
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For me its just COH that I have a problem with. Who on Earth thought giving one side unlimited heals that stack with other healing perks, through floors and is only permanently disabled when the person running the perk dies was a good idea? It would be like giving killers a perk that instantly regresses a generator by 50% when it reaches 99% progress. It undo's all the progress one side makes with very little input required and a damned if you do, damned if you don't choice for the opponent. Kill it with fire, but leave the other boons intact if you ask me.
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Engineer's Fang Pinhead. Enough said
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Killer made the smart play here and your teammates rewarded his decision by swarming like piranha's to fresh meat. Him slugging is also not holding the game hostage. Holding the game hostage is a situation where the game cannot physically end and will go on forever if nothing changes. Slugging does not fall under this category since the survivor will eventually die of bleedout. It might take a few minutes, the game WILL end.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2776538#Comment_2776538
Both Deadlock and DMS force survivors working on the gen off. Add in other perks like Pain Resonance (also knocks survivors off for DMS) or Surge to knock off more progress and even high mmr players would struggle to get gens done through constantly blocked gens that are regressing. The level of play that could deal with it would be tournament squads and even then I expect some part of that combo would get banned if blocked ever worked like that.
I think the block mechanic is fair as it is.
Can confirm that dead man's switch is already banned in several comp leagues already for the exact reason you mentioned.
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The old system was far from perfect, but it took much more into account than the current one. The problem that both systems suffer from is matchmaking. It doesn't matter how great your system is if their aren't enough players of a similar skill to match up with. Behavior all but admitted this when MMR is tossed out in favor of short que times. Until Behavior finds a way to draw in new player AND retain them, any MMR system they implement is doomed to fail.
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@CyberDragoon656 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767181#Comment_2767181
I would actually make it where the charge decreases in higher increments depending on how many times the button is pressed in a span of 5-8 seconds.
Even better! Would make many a survivor think twice before flashlight spamming. I'm all for changes that force survivors to be more tactical with there resources.
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@CyberDragoon656 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767174#Comment_2767174
I agree though cause I have seen some legit arguments against it flashlight clicking should be considered as well only cause of people who are light sensitive.
That's also a fair point and not one I initially considered. Maybe a feature could be added where if a flashlight is clicked a certain number of times in a certain timeframe, the survivor cant use it for, say, 15-20 seconds?
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If you ask me, the only thing people do that is toxic is sending hate through endgame chat or DMing your opponent. You don't have to enjoy what your opposition does, but it does not make them a bad human for doing it.
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As a blight main, hard disagree. Blight can absolutely be countered, it simply requires a different playstyle compared to average looping. Corner techs, lockers, wiggles and overall map knowledge screws over blight just as much as any other killer. Hell, DH validation cucks him too. Countering any killer is a matter of knowing what the killer can do and react accordingly. Its why I love facing other blights. I know what he's capable of and that makes trying to mind game him fun.
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All of this could be mitigated if the devs were just open and honest for once. Communication has always been their biggest weakness and this Q&A really showcased it. Behavior needs to realize that the onus is on them to earn the trust of the community, not the other way around. People are cynical about Behavior's promises because they've seen what happens when Behavior promises a feature or a change. It either never materializes or if it does, its rarely in a form that people asked for. Once or twice is fine, nobody is perfect and people need to make mistakes in order to learn from them. But when someone keeps making the same damn mistakes over and over again you start to question that person's competence at what they're doing. Behavior is in no position to ask for patience from anybody in the community until they take meaningful, decisive, quick action to earn the community's trust back.
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The thing that people have issues with is that the devs are heavily encouraging a camping/tunneling playstyle while in the same vein trying to nerf said playstyle. Based on Patrick's dodging the basekit BT question, they are looking at more counters to camping in general, but they also aren't doing anything to encourage killers NOT to camp. The so called "nerf" to COH as well as there justification for the Twins nerf show that they have no understanding of the finer nuances of there ONLY ip, which will only lead to more disasterous events like this Q&A. Also on the subject of Twins, didn't Behavior say they weren't going to balance the game around high MMR? You can't have it both ways Patrick!
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Its like the devs are trying to prove the memes about themselves right. They do not understand their only IP and rely only on raw stats with zero context. Take a look back at recent changes on killers and survivors. Not one of them gets to the root of why something was problematic in the first place. Pinhead has a high killrate for the same reason pig does: he's a Solo Q stomper by nature of his box. Did they take that into consideration when they nerfed him? Nope, they just tried to kill his best addons and called it a day. Same situation with Twins. Twins can be devastating in the right hands due to them being able to pressure two people at once with Victor and Charlotte. Did they look at that? Nope, its clearly the addons that are the problem, not the playstyle Behavior themselves are encouraging with COH among other things. People's biggest problem with dead hard wasn't exhaustion on the ground, it was that it gives out distance on demand with no drawback for the user. What was Behavior's response? Introduce validation to give it consistent i-frames AND distance! And now we have a Boil Over buff that literally no one was asking for when there are far more pressing concerns on both sides that need addressing.
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The whole dungeon master analogy is actually a pretty good one. Neither side should expect their opponent to care how much fun they are having, since the vast majority cares more about their own fun. The ire of the community should not be focused on those using unbalanced perks and tactics, but should instead be focused on the devs who allow such things to exist in the first place!
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Good lord, basekit BT would be an awful idea. When will Behavior learn that the best way to discourage camping is to offer killers a better alternative. Camping isn't fun for anyone, but it happens because it is rapidly becoming one of the only remaining tactics to get consistent kills in this game. I've said it once and I'll say it again. Camping only works if survivors let it work. Giving them a way to say "killer is camping, do gens" would be a much better way to go. All basekit BT would do is give survivors yet another perk slot to run another second chance perk while completely missing why killers feel the need to camp in the first place!
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I'm not sure I would call it handholding per say. Most people I talk to would agree that the gap between Solo Q and SWF is a real issue, in that the overall experience shifts dramatically depending on which group you are a part of. The thing that people have issue with, particularly killers, is that Behavior has a track record of making poor balance decisions then leaving said decisions for months on end. Think back on old OOO, a perk that people rightly called unbalanced and unhealthy since day one due to its applications with a group. In many ways it was comparable to the effect COH has today. Behavior flat out refused to acknowledge it was a problem until a year ago and nerfed it to the state it is today. This is what people are afraid of if/when they buff Solo Q. Players do not trust Behavior to make the right decisions balance-wise and they do not trust them to correct any imbalances in a timely manner.
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Just wanted to add my two cents into this discussion. @Peanits I really like how in depth you responded to questions around the patch notes. This is the kind of engagement the community desperately needs from folks such as yourself. I can only speak to my own experiences, but a common thread in patch note complaints seems to be "they are ignoring X, they don't care"! Posts like yours included in the patch notes themselves would go a long way to help people feel like they are being listened too. Your posts feel like they are from an actual person, not a paid spokesperson. We need that, on top of more communication. Something as simple as showing the actual numbers behind why you changed something will go a long way towards restoring community trust. As it is right now, Behavior seems to be insisting that the player base trust them, when that trust has been betrayed in the past. Looking back, there are a litany of things that were promised by Behavior via employees that were in the know, only to have said promises be seemingly forgotten. Further more, things that rankle the community, ie. DH, DS, NOED, genspeed, map imbalance etc are rarely even acknowledged. You don't have to "fix" everything the community labels a problem, but at least acknowledge that you are listening to them. This isn't even going into things that are actively harming both players and your bottom line, like hackers modding in paid dlc.
I know that there is only so much you can do about the many challenges that come with running an asymmetrical game like DBD. Behavior has created something truly special here. The amount of vitriol you receive is proof of how much people care about the health of your title! Even if you cannot disclose exact details or solutions in development, just saying that you brought it up to the folks with the power to make an impact will help massively.
Good Luck in the Fog
- - a DBD player
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As much as it sucks, camping and tunneling are here to stay. With boon totems allowing infinite heals + luckybreak/distortion, killers can no longer spread injured states so breaking a chase after one hit is not feasible. There is also no counter at all to boon totems since they can be reused an unlimited number of times. In fact, the only way to stop boons forever is to tunnel out the person running them. Survivors are going to have to give up a lot of their power role if they want killers to go on long chases again.
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This is what MMR will force killer to do if they want to win. Tunneling in particular is necessary at higher MMR because "playing fair" will get you 1 maybe 2 kills and tbaggs at the exit gates. If survivors want "fair" games, they they will have to give up a lot to make killers not go for the fastest kills possible. Things like insta heals, BNP, dead hard to invalidate mindgames, map offerings/map size and so on. But we all know that won't happen so get used it folks. This is DBD now, sweat or get crushed.
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@Saviorace said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/280645/facecamping-fix
If you want to stop camping the best way to get bhvrs attention is to just stop going for saves. There's no incentive to do so while the killer is camping because gens are the main objective. Benevolence is a side objective so if you load out perks to be stealthy or gen rush it will show up in their analytics as a problem. The real issue is getting enough people to stop hook bombing and giving the killer trades.
THIS is how you counter camping! The amount of survivors who can't grasp this makes my head spin.
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2501719#Comment_2501719
Oh my god the killer wouldnhave to....gasp CHASE survivors. For a win? And not just get hits instantly. Oh my God I can't believe that your right that is so much abuse i can't believe the killers testing it didn't all Uninstall on the spot.
What more can I say to make you understand? The hook countdown needs to remain as it is, otherwise there's no pressure for anyone to come off gens to save that person. Even if the killer just chased the person, that survivor could just loop around the hook, leaving the other 2 free to do gens since there is no pressure to save the guy on hook. But I have the feeling that this is lost on you. Go play some killer the come back and tell me about how OP camping is.
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2501333#Comment_2501333
Why was it abuse that killers would have to go for "hard" chases (whatever that means) as though anything less that an easy hit is abusive to killers somehow?
Because there was nothing the killer could do to counter this. Either they go on a chase which means leaving the hook where they know someone is waiting for the save if you recall my previous situation or they stay and accomplish nothing since the hook timer wouldn't go down. It was horrfically unbalanced because all a survivor would have to do is loop close to a hook and the killer would lose all map pressure. Thats why its never been tried again, it forced a killer to give out free saves for every hook if they wanted to progress the game.
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@Apollos said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2501333#Comment_2501333
Did it slow down when killer was close enough or when survivors were close enough? The latter is just Camaraderie, but I don't see how the former could be abused.
It paused the timer outright. It slowed down if the killer was close enough. It worked by having two survivors hover around hook, while someone else did gens. It was busted for obvious reasons
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I still believe this whole system is meant more to address the Solo Q Experience than anything else. Unfortunately, skill in this game only counts for so much when there is so much RNG involved. BNP can win a game within the first 60 seconds and god help you if you get shelter woods against a mobility killer. The only way this game remains fun for both casuals and sweats is if there are massive balance changes. Once that's done, then MMR will work. But i'm worried for the long term if nothing changes.
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As it was already said, this was tried. Survivors abused this by staying just out of easy chase range, but close enough to stop the countdown. Facecamping is here to stay and with how common BT is, is effectively a losing strategy anyways. If a killer wants to facecamp, let em. They'll get one kill and next to no points.
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I like the idea of knocking down the top 2, dead hard and sprint burst, while leaving others where they are. Lithe and Balanced landing require some specific actions and are limiting in their own right. Dead hard and sprint burst are good no matter what situation you're in. I think those two should have their cooldowns upped to 60 seconds. The others are probably fine where they are. They could still be used fairly often, but it will make survivors think twice before using it in chase.
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People hate it for the same reason they hate things like Dead Hard. It erases your progress on the objective. Since survivors only have the one objective, they tend to feel it more than a killer might feel it from dead hard. Unfortunately, ruin/undying is necessary in the current sandbox until something is done to address how fast gens can fly in the early game.
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Why is everyone in a fuss over killers using perks that works very well with their power? More specifically, over blight, a killer with a high skill ceiling and is one of 3 killers that can keep up with strong SWF's? You could ask the same thing about a demo that uses STBFL or an Oni running IF or wraith using SB. Because it works. Quit complaining about what the other side does and instead focus on what YOU can do to get better at the game!
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@INFECTEDMANIAC said:
To anyone reading this when was the last time a survivor made the game fun for the killer? Why is it only the killers job to make sure the survivor has fun, but not the survivors job to make sure the killer has fun?
EXACTLY!
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i really don't see a problem with how the streamer responded, and I feel like some people are reading WAY to much into this. Killers and Survivors are allowed to play how they want, whether that involves camping, genrushing and everything in-between. Utilizing a strategy in a video game does not make one an awful human being. Harassing someone on their twitch stream because they are doing something their opponent deems "unfun", seems a lot worse to me than having a staring contest with a creature that ironically has no eyes.
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Its very interesting hearing everyone's experiences here! Mine was a bit of an Uno reverse card for killer. I play blight and got lots of teams who were very clearly below my skill level. But I then played huntress and got beaten pretty badly by some good survivors. Solo Q survivor was a lot more manageable but SWF tossed some pretty good killers my way.
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@Red_Beard said:
My experience as a solo survivor was mixed. I got better teammates overall during times where my queues were best but very random skill level teammates when the queues were long. I'm sure this is because the open up the range of people you can be paired with to alleviate long queues, which isn't anything different than what happens now.
As far as how the matches felt, if my teammates were competent, we outperformed the killer most of the time. I still had killers dc because they were at 1 or 2 gens left with 1 hook. I had matches that the gens were done in five minutes. I also had matches the killer did really well and it was a challenge, but I don't feel that happened more than with rank based. Actually it felt like it happened less of the time.
When my teammates were not competent I faced killers that destroyed us and killed us all before we could get 2 gens done. I had killers that I could loop for 4 gens. And of course I had some that matched well to the overall skill of the group so it felt like a good match. Again, not anymore than with rank based.
I think if SBMM goes live we are still going to see people complain about how lopsided matches feel. Especially when the skill range needs to be opened up to keep queue times from getting too long. The only difference is we will not see a number beside our names to show how far out the system had to look for someone to fill the role.
Your last point is the one that worries me the most when this thing launches. We will have no way of knowing the skill level of the people we are matched with. We have to take BHVR's word that the system is working properly and I frankly don't trust them to not bungle this up somehow.
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I like the thought behind it that DCs should be punished harder since it ruins the game for everyone involved, but the system can't tell the difference if it was intentional or not. Until it does, the penalties for now will do otherwise console players will get screwed over.
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Because often times when people rage, they are raging at you. While this game can be frustrating as all heck, if you take a verbal swing at someone, chances are that person will swing back.
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My standard build:
Shadowborn
Corrupt Intervention
BBQ
Hex: Devour Hope
I can hear the "Oh #########" from survivors after the first down. :)
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So let me get this right. You're angry because a blight, one of the hardest killers to learn, one that requires both map knowledge and an in depth understanding of bump logic, is doing well against you running meta perks?
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Rank 1 Killer to Rank 9
Rank 2 Survivor to Rank 9