So, pick up the item and do that. But if we are balancing the game around "Average solo queue teammates" then when does nurse get buffs considering she has one of the lowest kill rates in the game? or are we only allowed to balance for average "survivor" players but when it comes to killer balance it has to be "top tier" players?
This ^
So many people want the game balanced around average/bad solo queue survivors but no one wants it also balanced around average/bad killers. It’s very much a double standard a large part of the community has.
The arguments of 'it takes two perk slots' and 'it only works in combo with one other perk' are completely disingenuous and irrelevant here.
Those same arguments applied to buckle up and background player and those perks were nerfed because the synergy was considered too strong. Background player is literally useless unless you combo it with something.
First of all i never said anything about it taking two perk slots, I'm just pointing out that the perk by itself is trash. The difference is Buckle up is a solid perk on its own and so is For The People although less so. Weave attunement is trash on its own and does essentially nothing if survivors have common sense.
Honestly I would rather them rework the perk because it is so horrendously bad without Franklins that it shouldn't even exist the way it does.
12 meter infinite aura reading if survivors drops a item… oh and they also become oblivious for 30 seconds if they pickup the item just for fun
Pairing it with franklins makes this perk incredibly obnoxious
Doesn’t matter if it’s not good on its own a lot of perks are mediocre when it’s by itself but when you pair it with other perks they become broken lets talk about MFT and Hope or FTP and buckle up I bet you can talk about all day how obnoxious those combos used to be but noooooooo if we talk about something obnoxious on the killer side it’s not a problem it’s so evident in these up votes too lol
Don't have an item (hard countered)
Drop the item on the side of the map or in a corner (soft countered)
Use a perk like object (1 perk slot to get the effect killer spent 2 perk slots on)
Hope + MFT counter (be a killer with mobility)
FTP + Buckle up counter (be a high tier killer who can chew through that time loss and healthstates)
The perk is not only mediocre by itself it has to take up half your build to be mediocre since on its own it very easily can do nothing even against 4 items, just 99 an item.
If you can't play around something as simple as that idk what to tell you, and if you think its comparable to actual good combos that devastate mid tier killers because it stomps baby survivors I also don't know what to tell you because everything beats baby survivors.
Without franklin, perk might as well not even exists
That's really a ridiculous take
And still is an strong combo. Old buckle up was ok, it’s synergy with for the people made it strong. Permanent aura reading is never ok and if their only counter is dropping one of your resources in a corner, we’re having a problem.
Drop the item on the side of the map or in a corner (soft countered)
Use a perk like object (1 perk slot to get the effect killer spent 2 perk slots on)
Hope + MFT counter (be a killer with mobility)
FTP + Buckle up counter (be a high tier killer who can chew through that time loss and healthstates)
The perk is not only mediocre by itself it has to take up half your build to be mediocre since on its own it very easily can do nothing even against 4 items, just 99 an item.
If you can't play around something as simple as that idk what to tell you, and if you think its comparable to actual good combos that devastate mid tier killers because it stomps baby survivors I also don't know what to tell you because everything beats baby survivors.
And there we go you explained its issues
Items are a integral part of survivors similar to add ons on killers hence why franklins is so annoying and disliked imagine if survivor had a perk that just deleted you’re add ons lol you’d go ape
The combo completely guts items you are either forced to not bring one in fear of this combo or forced to waste time to dump it in a corner it still has PERMANENT aura reading in a 12 meter radius and is broken on indoor maps
Object of obsession is niche and is risky to use considering that you’ll always be interacting with the killer making you more likely to die, it counters the combo but does it really counter it?
Let’s not even talk about the fact that the item exposing you might be really hard to find. Making you waste a lot of time finding it and exposing you’re position, the whole perk combo is simply bull through and through and just the idea of infinite aura reading is ridiculous in itself
it’s going to get nerfed not even a question it’s just funny you think it’s okay and “weak” when it’s obviously not and you’re just clearly biased.
This ^
So many people want the game balanced around average/bad solo queue survivors but no one wants it also balanced around average/bad killers. It’s very much a double standard a large part of the community has.
But the game is being balanced around average/bad killers. I'd go in how but it's off topic.
Items are a integral part of survivors similar to add ons on killers hence why franklins is so annoying and disliked imagine if survivor had a perk that just deleted you’re add ons lol you’d go ape
The combo completely guts items you are either forced to not bring one in fear of this combo or forced to waste time to dump it in a corner it still has PERMANENT aura reading in a 12 meter radius and is broken on indoor maps
Object of obsession is niche and is risky to use considering that you’ll always be interacting with the killer making you more likely to die, it counters the combo but does it really counter it?
Let’s not even talk about the fact that the item exposing you might be really hard to find. Making you waste a lot of time finding it and exposing you’re position, the whole perk combo is simply bull through and through and just the idea of infinite aura reading is ridiculous in itself
it’s going to get nerfed not even a question it’s just funny you think it’s okay and “weak” when it’s obviously not and you’re just clearly biased.
I play both sides and think its both extremely easy to play against and a waste of 2 perk slots and $10 but sure "its strong and im biased" or whatever, im gonna run 4 actual perks instead, such a threat a mid tier killer using half their build for info and item disruption in a vacuum vs thinking for 2s and countering half their build
So can someone explain to me why a) it's so hard to just set your item down or not bring one, b) Killers aren't allowed to have strong info, c) you can't just run Distortion?
Stop crutching so hard on items and maybe Weave won't be an issue. Franklin's was no problem before, just annoying. Weave is not a problem, just annoying with Franklin's. It really isn't any worse than Nowhere to Hide is and you can literally ALWAYS get more items, they're in the bloodweb right there.
Leave this perk combo alone and stop getting stuff nerfed so hard the only viable perks Killers cna use are four slowdown. Because I promise, as someone who plays both sides, I and most likely anyone who plays any amount of Killer REALLY doesn't wanna run just the boring meta of four slowdown. Period.
So can someone explain to me why a) it's so hard to just set your item down or not bring one, b) Killers aren't allowed to have strong info, c) you can't just run Distortion?
Stop crutching so hard on items and maybe Weave won't be an issue. Franklin's was no problem before, just annoying. Weave is not a problem, just annoying with Franklin's. It really isn't any worse than Nowhere to Hide is and you can literally ALWAYS get more items, they're in the bloodweb right there.
Leave this perk combo alone and stop getting stuff nerfed so hard the only viable perks Killers cna use are four slowdown. Because I promise, as someone who plays both sides, I and most likely anyone who plays any amount of Killer REALLY doesn't wanna run just the boring meta of four slowdown. Period.
It's not so much as a crutch/attachment to items but killers have plenty of info as it is. They are even buffing Darkness Revealed to become more viable. It's like we have an aura reading power creep. Distortion is already a hot topic as it is
People say it's as easy as tossing them in a corner but it's not all that practical and very unlikely your teammates are going to be doing that.
The ONLY change i could see them making would be to show the aura of the item revealing you, otherwise it's not a great perk and requires the killer to dedicate two perks to even get use out of it
This would be the best change since it would allow survivors to actually engage with the counterplay if not in a 4 person swf.
Without seeing the item auras, it can be almost impossible at times to find the items dropped by other players in order to counter it. It is hard to find the toolbox knocked out in tall grass with Franklins from a soloq player, or trying to figure out which floor an item is on when playing Midwich.
Allowing survivors to see the auras of items affecting them would be a great way to balance the perk and make it more fair to play against without kneecapping the perk by nerfing it with reduced synergy or range.
I don‘t like playing against it, but the perk is a really cool idea and fair. My only problem is franklins, it shouldn‘t immediately remove charges, there is no way to get your item with charges back without dying.
"Just never bring add ons bro, idk what the issue is." See how dumb that would be if the roles were reversed?
Irrelevant critique is irrelevant. You know an addon isn't anything like an item or a power, there IS no role reversal and Survivors can be plenty viable without items, I have lost to people good enough who brought no items. Stop strawmanning.
Irrelevant critique is irrelevant. You know an addon isn't anything like an item or a power, there IS no role reversal and Survivors can be plenty viable without items, I have lost to people good enough who brought no items. Stop strawmanning.
I've lost to people good enough who brought no add ons. It's the closest parallel we have and your bias clearly shows when it's the killers items that get insta deleted.
So, pick up the item and do that. But if we are balancing the game around "Average solo queue teammates" then when does nurse get buffs considering she has one of the lowest kill rates in the game? or are we only allowed to balance for average "survivor" players but when it comes to killer balance it has to be "top tier" players?
I never said that we must balance the game around average soloQ players. Don't put words in my mouth I didn't say. I just said that a lot of players (mostly soloQ) don't know what most killer perks do and you can't expect people to know every counter to every perk.
I also don't get why you have to put in a random killer in your reply to me, I didn't even mention that killer or any killer.
I never said that we must balance the game around average soloQ players. Don't put words in my mouth I didn't say. I just said that a lot of players (mostly soloQ) don't know what most killer perks do and you can't expect people to know every counter to every perk.
I also don't get why you have to put in a random killer in your reply to me, I didn't even mention that killer or any killer.
Because, i pointed out that this perk has a very simple and easy counter that anyone can do, it takes maybe 10-15 seconds tops, and doing so makes it so the killer effectively has 2 perks the entire game.
Your response was immediately "but average solo q players can't do that"
So my question to you is. Do you think this perk in discussion needs a nerf despite having such a simple and effective counter simply because "the average player" apparently is unable to do that for some reason?
If that is the case, then your belief on game balance must simply be, that you balance the game around the average player, and not what happens at high mmr. If that is the case, then by extension you MUST also believe that nurse needs massive buffs because she is by far one of the worst killers in the game, and pretty much has been that way since her release.
My point is, you cannot hold the beliefs that weave is OP because of average players, and also that nurse doesn't need massive buffs because average players are so bad at her. If you want to hold these beliefs together, then you are simply biased.
Basically, in terms of game balance there are 3 ways you can look at it.
You balance the game around low level players
You balance the game around average level players
You balance the game around high level players
Most people agree that you don't balance the game around low level players (basically the ones who bought this game a couple of days ago). So the debate is, do you balance for high level, or average level players?
And, per the data that BHVR releases, if you believe that you should balance the game around average players, then by DEFINITION you MUST also believe that nurse needs MASSIVE buffs, because her kill rate is often below 50%. Which is significant because the devs balance for a 60% kill rate.
But, if you believe that the game should be balanced around HIGH LEVEL players, then you MUST also believe, that nurse probably needs nerfs, but also, that the vast VAST majority of the killers in this game are simply not viable. As in, there are probably like 4 viable killers at this point.
IMO survivors should get a hard counter perk akin to Lightborn but instead it prevents items from being dropped by killer powers or add-ons.
Like Lightborn potentially useless (Even more so really since at least killers can see Flashlights pre-trial) but good to use if you just hate that aspect of the game.
BGP is far from useless. Even without a flashlight or toolbox, it's also good for pallet saves. Yet you're the one accusing people of being disingenuous while simultaneously spouting nonsense like that.
I'm sorry, what?
I said it's useless unless you combo it with something, and your response is 'you can use it with pallets'. That counts as something.
Give BHVR some time to look at the perk combo and decide whether it needs nerfing, and if so, find a suitable way to do it without creating useless perks in the process.
Why act like the perk combo should have already been destroyed by now? It's only been like a month or so since it launched. It's not broken, just really strong. Therefore it doesn't need to be gutted within the first few weeks.
Have to agree. Don’t understand why people are pretending this is a bad perk. It’s some of the best information in the whole game for killer.
People don't want it to get nerfed I quess it has won me many games the information you get is ridicious especially indoor maps. On top of that it add ovlivious and slow down I think it's busted.
People really want killers to run 4 slowdown perks
Like, really, even in SoloQ it is counterable, as long everyone bring their items to map corners.
Kllers don't need to only bring 4 slow downs if one compo is nerfed. 2 slow downs has been always more than enough for me. There are other decent perks as well.
Its funny how people tend to forget that DBD is an assymetrical game an a single survivor should not be strong enough to 1v1 the killer because there is more 3 of them. Killer using 2 perks slots in a build is compromising 50% of loadout. It would be the same as if the survivors would use 8 perk slots to get some value on the match (and some do with the DS + Unbrekable combo). I've faced this combo many times and had no problems putting items in the corners and leaving killers with 2 less perks.
About this combo i still think its a very balanced combo even, specially since only a small part of the killer can benefit from it (mostly who rely on M1 to get hits) and an even smaller part can use well the information it give (killers with mobility).
Lets take a quick example: Deathslinger. Its a 4.4 killer with a anti-loop power that hits with basic attacks. I would say this combo is amazing on Deathslinger? No because although you can use the info to try some cool shots if there is an item near your chase, most of the time you will get info about someone on the other side of the map without having enough mobility to pressure them. It would be better to just use Sloppy, Surge, Pain Ress, Coup de Grace, etc so you can use perks that synergies better with your character.
So, this combo is strong, i won't deny, but require so much to get value of it that i think people are overstimating it.
Kllers don't need to only bring 4 slow downs if one compo is nerfed. 2 slow downs has been always more than enough for me. There are other decent perks as well.
At least any of those things are stronger than this useless combo, luckily
The ONLY change i could see them making would be to show the aura of the item revealing you, otherwise it's not a great perk and requires the killer to dedicate two perks to even get use out of it
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Comments
This ^
So many people want the game balanced around average/bad solo queue survivors but no one wants it also balanced around average/bad killers. It’s very much a double standard a large part of the community has.
First of all i never said anything about it taking two perk slots, I'm just pointing out that the perk by itself is trash. The difference is Buckle up is a solid perk on its own and so is For The People although less so. Weave attunement is trash on its own and does essentially nothing if survivors have common sense.
Honestly I would rather them rework the perk because it is so horrendously bad without Franklins that it shouldn't even exist the way it does.
The perk doesn’t need a nerf, the synergy with Franklin’s does.
Don't have an item (hard countered)
Drop the item on the side of the map or in a corner (soft countered)
Use a perk like object (1 perk slot to get the effect killer spent 2 perk slots on)
Hope + MFT counter (be a killer with mobility)
FTP + Buckle up counter (be a high tier killer who can chew through that time loss and healthstates)
The perk is not only mediocre by itself it has to take up half your build to be mediocre since on its own it very easily can do nothing even against 4 items, just 99 an item.
If you can't play around something as simple as that idk what to tell you, and if you think its comparable to actual good combos that devastate mid tier killers because it stomps baby survivors I also don't know what to tell you because everything beats baby survivors.
Without franklin, perk might as well not even exists
That's really a ridiculous take
And still is an strong combo. Old buckle up was ok, it’s synergy with for the people made it strong. Permanent aura reading is never ok and if their only counter is dropping one of your resources in a corner, we’re having a problem.
Just put items in the corner of the map..
And there we go you explained its issues
Items are a integral part of survivors similar to add ons on killers hence why franklins is so annoying and disliked imagine if survivor had a perk that just deleted you’re add ons lol you’d go ape
The combo completely guts items you are either forced to not bring one in fear of this combo or forced to waste time to dump it in a corner it still has PERMANENT aura reading in a 12 meter radius and is broken on indoor maps
Object of obsession is niche and is risky to use considering that you’ll always be interacting with the killer making you more likely to die, it counters the combo but does it really counter it?
Let’s not even talk about the fact that the item exposing you might be really hard to find. Making you waste a lot of time finding it and exposing you’re position, the whole perk combo is simply bull through and through and just the idea of infinite aura reading is ridiculous in itself
it’s going to get nerfed not even a question it’s just funny you think it’s okay and “weak” when it’s obviously not and you’re just clearly biased.
But the game is being balanced around average/bad killers. I'd go in how but it's off topic.
I play both sides and think its both extremely easy to play against and a waste of 2 perk slots and $10 but sure "its strong and im biased" or whatever, im gonna run 4 actual perks instead, such a threat a mid tier killer using half their build for info and item disruption in a vacuum vs thinking for 2s and countering half their build
So can someone explain to me why a) it's so hard to just set your item down or not bring one, b) Killers aren't allowed to have strong info, c) you can't just run Distortion?
Stop crutching so hard on items and maybe Weave won't be an issue. Franklin's was no problem before, just annoying. Weave is not a problem, just annoying with Franklin's. It really isn't any worse than Nowhere to Hide is and you can literally ALWAYS get more items, they're in the bloodweb right there.
Leave this perk combo alone and stop getting stuff nerfed so hard the only viable perks Killers cna use are four slowdown. Because I promise, as someone who plays both sides, I and most likely anyone who plays any amount of Killer REALLY doesn't wanna run just the boring meta of four slowdown. Period.
Ignore this, I messed up a quote and it didn't post.
It's not so much as a crutch/attachment to items but killers have plenty of info as it is. They are even buffing Darkness Revealed to become more viable. It's like we have an aura reading power creep. Distortion is already a hot topic as it is
People say it's as easy as tossing them in a corner but it's not all that practical and very unlikely your teammates are going to be doing that.
It's really easy to bring perks over items, IDK what the issue is.
This would be the best change since it would allow survivors to actually engage with the counterplay if not in a 4 person swf.
Without seeing the item auras, it can be almost impossible at times to find the items dropped by other players in order to counter it. It is hard to find the toolbox knocked out in tall grass with Franklins from a soloq player, or trying to figure out which floor an item is on when playing Midwich.
Allowing survivors to see the auras of items affecting them would be a great way to balance the perk and make it more fair to play against without kneecapping the perk by nerfing it with reduced synergy or range.
"Just never bring add ons bro, idk what the issue is." See how dumb that would be if the roles were reversed?
I don‘t like playing against it, but the perk is a really cool idea and fair. My only problem is franklins, it shouldn‘t immediately remove charges, there is no way to get your item with charges back without dying.
Irrelevant critique is irrelevant. You know an addon isn't anything like an item or a power, there IS no role reversal and Survivors can be plenty viable without items, I have lost to people good enough who brought no items. Stop strawmanning.
I've lost to people good enough who brought no add ons. It's the closest parallel we have and your bias clearly shows when it's the killers items that get insta deleted.
It doesn't seem to be friendly to beginners who rely on items. lol
I never said that we must balance the game around average soloQ players. Don't put words in my mouth I didn't say. I just said that a lot of players (mostly soloQ) don't know what most killer perks do and you can't expect people to know every counter to every perk.
I also don't get why you have to put in a random killer in your reply to me, I didn't even mention that killer or any killer.
Because, i pointed out that this perk has a very simple and easy counter that anyone can do, it takes maybe 10-15 seconds tops, and doing so makes it so the killer effectively has 2 perks the entire game.
Your response was immediately "but average solo q players can't do that"
So my question to you is. Do you think this perk in discussion needs a nerf despite having such a simple and effective counter simply because "the average player" apparently is unable to do that for some reason?
If that is the case, then your belief on game balance must simply be, that you balance the game around the average player, and not what happens at high mmr. If that is the case, then by extension you MUST also believe that nurse needs massive buffs because she is by far one of the worst killers in the game, and pretty much has been that way since her release.
My point is, you cannot hold the beliefs that weave is OP because of average players, and also that nurse doesn't need massive buffs because average players are so bad at her. If you want to hold these beliefs together, then you are simply biased.
Basically, in terms of game balance there are 3 ways you can look at it.
Most people agree that you don't balance the game around low level players (basically the ones who bought this game a couple of days ago). So the debate is, do you balance for high level, or average level players?
And, per the data that BHVR releases, if you believe that you should balance the game around average players, then by DEFINITION you MUST also believe that nurse needs MASSIVE buffs, because her kill rate is often below 50%. Which is significant because the devs balance for a 60% kill rate.
But, if you believe that the game should be balanced around HIGH LEVEL players, then you MUST also believe, that nurse probably needs nerfs, but also, that the vast VAST majority of the killers in this game are simply not viable. As in, there are probably like 4 viable killers at this point.
I wish that the game would have a big Info Tab, that tells you how to counter certain Perks. Weave for example is really easy to counter.
IMO survivors should get a hard counter perk akin to Lightborn but instead it prevents items from being dropped by killer powers or add-ons.
Like Lightborn potentially useless (Even more so really since at least killers can see Flashlights pre-trial) but good to use if you just hate that aspect of the game.
I'm sorry, what?
I said it's useless unless you combo it with something, and your response is 'you can use it with pallets'. That counts as something.
Let's keep the discussion civil and constructive, thank you.
Give BHVR some time to look at the perk combo and decide whether it needs nerfing, and if so, find a suitable way to do it without creating useless perks in the process.
Why act like the perk combo should have already been destroyed by now? It's only been like a month or so since it launched. It's not broken, just really strong. Therefore it doesn't need to be gutted within the first few weeks.
People don't want it to get nerfed I quess it has won me many games the information you get is ridicious especially indoor maps. On top of that it add ovlivious and slow down I think it's busted.
Kllers don't need to only bring 4 slow downs if one compo is nerfed. 2 slow downs has been always more than enough for me. There are other decent perks as well.
Its funny how people tend to forget that DBD is an assymetrical game an a single survivor should not be strong enough to 1v1 the killer because there is more 3 of them. Killer using 2 perks slots in a build is compromising 50% of loadout. It would be the same as if the survivors would use 8 perk slots to get some value on the match (and some do with the DS + Unbrekable combo). I've faced this combo many times and had no problems putting items in the corners and leaving killers with 2 less perks.
About this combo i still think its a very balanced combo even, specially since only a small part of the killer can benefit from it (mostly who rely on M1 to get hits) and an even smaller part can use well the information it give (killers with mobility).
Lets take a quick example: Deathslinger. Its a 4.4 killer with a anti-loop power that hits with basic attacks. I would say this combo is amazing on Deathslinger? No because although you can use the info to try some cool shots if there is an item near your chase, most of the time you will get info about someone on the other side of the map without having enough mobility to pressure them. It would be better to just use Sloppy, Surge, Pain Ress, Coup de Grace, etc so you can use perks that synergies better with your character.
So, this combo is strong, i won't deny, but require so much to get value of it that i think people are overstimating it.
At least any of those things are stronger than this useless combo, luckily
literally..
You just last second swap. Makes the Killer mad and they can't change their Loadout.
It’s not.
This is a brilliant idea!