Let’s talk about “Off The Record”
I think ever since the hype of this perk died down people are not acknowledging just how insane it is.
First of all, it is three perks in one and the requirement to activate it is just to be unhooked which happens every game. It’s first effect - Aura hiding. Second - leaves you completely silent. Third - Endurance. The fact that it grants survivors all three of these very powerful effects that traditionally survivors would have to waste perk slots for each and it would’ve been worth it because it’s so good but now they can just slap on one perk and have other 3 occupied by other strong perks, and for a whole 80 seconds with no requirements is problematic on its own but I wanna focus more on the deal that when survivors commit a conspicuous action they have OTR “disabled”, it doesn’t, only one effect does the other two persists for the rest of the 80 seconds duration.
With the upcoming DS rework which I’m assuming to be an unasked-for buff, I have little to no faith in BHVR to tone down OTR to its intended level before new DS’s release. Granting all three those effects is one thing but please uphold your end of the deal and make it where if a survivor does something conspicuous or they’re hit the perk disables entirely.
It is extremely harsh on killers that might not even be necessary tunneling and have already hooked a new survivor and come back to a survivor that’s completely silent and have their auras hidden. Examples but not limited to - Aura Huntress or Spirit.
I’m curious for the community’s feedback as I believe I’ve been very reasonable and if by miracle a developer is reading this I can only hope by another miracle you take this into consideration.
Comments
When they've decided they're gonna tunnel, fairly often.
How often does it happen that killer hit right after unhook? That depends:
When you dont have OTR: Never
When you do have ORT: Always
The difference are Grunts of pain.
Ive used flashbangs and then tried to use the endurance which failed? I saw someone else post that they had issues with the endurance triggering.
I use this build and one with OTR and MFTw/DH. Basically - you make me stronger the harder you tunnel
I would pay attention to the right side of your screen to see if you have the endurance status effect. It sounds like you got randomly surprised. As it stands, a conspicuous action is any of the following.
If you did not do any of these and endurance ended early, I would write up a bug report.
We already had 4 seconds though. Back when DS could be used before you got hooked.
For that version of the perk, 4 seconds was okay. Well, technically 4.5 because the perk was a little glitched, but either way the stun time was alright. After all, it wasn't an anti-tunnel perk, it was an anti-momentum perk.
But if DS is to be an anti-tunnel perk again, then it has to have 5 seconds of stun time. Less than that won't work.
Was this back in the dribblin to the hook days? 🤪
Yes, it was.
I am pretty sure I still remember how to do that. I mean, the precise moments you should drop the survivor to avoid the DS Skill Check.
The video obviously resonated with me I’d rather you go watch it then we can have our cute little discussion about it afterwards than waste my time typing more or less the same concept and spoon feeding it to you.
I lost a few more of those myself back then, it was much more annoying with a controller. I always imagined that the surv got a lucky three or four o'clock skill check when it did happen and they hopped off.
I watched this video. Basically, not a single thing he talks about actually deals with all of the detailed reasons Pulsar gave for avoiding tunneling.
This is why its bad to try and use other people's arguments to substitute your own because you end up arguing against a strawman.
Additionally you started the thread with this
I’m curious for the community’s feedback as I believe I’ve been very reasonable and if by miracle a developer is reading this I can only hope by another miracle you take this into consideration.If you want community feedback, which has come in, you actually have to engage with it. If you are hoping that devs are going to take your ideas seriously you have to be able to defend them against the inevitable disagreements that will come in.
I think ever since the hype of this perk died down people are not acknowledging just how insane it is.
If the hype of the perk died down it means it isn't as insane as you think it is, otherwise you'd still be seeing it just as often. Just look how difficult it was to get rid of Dead Hard.
I'd recommend you use it for yourself for a couple of weeks and see if you change your opinion on it. You may find that the aspects you think are "Insane" end up amounting to nothing most of your games and only ever help in the very specific scenarios they're meant to help.
I feel like I should also point out that survivor perks should be allowed to do a thing, and shouldn't unconditionally be entirely controllable by the killer. Additionally, a hookstate is the highest possible price a survivor can pay. It's perfectly fine that OTR has two okay effects on it that work if the killer doesn't tunnel, paired with one strong effect that works if they do.
I think DS does need more time to stun killers, since it's supposed to be Anti-Tunnel and only happens once per match before turning off, I feel like it could at least do more than just getting yourself off the killers shoulder. As for OTR, it is kinda annoying when people run in out of nowhere with it to tank hits, but it's alright in my eyes. Only happens twice per survivor and isn't all that relevant if you aren't tunneling most of the time, with the conspicuous clause and all for endurance.
Talk to me about OTR changes when Tunneling and Camping are properly dealt with.
I'm currently running OtR purely to avoid the bodyblock then count to ten strat. Combine that with DH and you can collect a lovely bottle of salty Clown tears.
ah here comes the killer mains for another survivor perk that helps stop tunnelling. Decisive is already on the watch list, adrenaline is probably being nerfed in the newr future, now you're coming for off the record. Do you want the game to play itself on top of quad slowdown builds or press spacebar on a locker to make everyone scream outplays? Seems that way. Off the record is fine as it is, it barely stops tunnelling anyway and if you are really complaining about survivors making no noise after bring unhooked, it suggests you're tunnelling them anyway which makes you part of the problem and why perks like off the record and decisive exist.
Maybe don't tunnel if you know they have OTR, and I dunno, chase someone else?
You asked for feedback but refuse to engage, curious.
I'd rather discuss it with you and not argue about a strawman.
Off the record's secondary effects could be deactivated on a conspicuous action but the rest is whatever, it doesn't synergise well with DS anyway ...
And you having these effects assures you to be safe after an unhook and losing these after doing conspicuous actions would only be fair ...
But anything else would over-nerf it.
OTR is fine and doesn't need nerfing 🙄
Yeah nice, but don't complain about getting 4 man escapes as you didn't tunnel, and sometimes it is just clearly better to do it ...
DBD community in a nutshell .
Do you play killer ? And do you get carried by your perks or by you strategy, and if you don't get carried by these you don't have survivor of your level and if you get big winstreaks, then you just are tunneling with meta perks, if not you will stop that winstreak when you get to the top mmr (The matchmaking is not bad enough to not do that...).
No it was 5 seconds and a 0.5 animation, so effectively a 4.5 second stun ...
"And from a player experience standpoint, it's extremely poor. You are ruining one players experience for no other purpose than an easy win that will handicap you later. Tunneling is something a lot of Killers, myself included, crutch on. It's not necessarily bad to crutch on things from time to time, but it can seriously hamper your development as a player. It will cause you to win much more often and easily than the rest of your skills would allow on their own and in turn, place you against better opponents who can and will abuse you for not being up to snuff."
If you create in a game two strategies, one that is optimal, and one that feels bad for the other side, ow imagine that both are the same, then you have a reason to do the first ... I am not saying that tunneling is always optimal, but 1v3 is far more manageable than 1v4, and that is what needs to change one way or another.(that is an exemple that doesn't take into account every single thing there is...
"This creates several different issues where Killer players believe themselves to be better than everyone else after winning so much and then they get destroyed by actually good teams. "
At the same time, that is a matchmaking problem...
"Hence we get complaints about survivor death squads, how unplayable Killer is etc etc. "
In my opinion, Killer without tunneling is harder than survivor that gets tunneled, and even more if you purposefully do not take strong perks to support you. And getting tunneled is a win if the exit gates get powered before you die ...
"In reality, the teams were likely beatable and the player just isn't as good as they think they are."
Yes, but some situations are not under your power even if you are good (a God hillbilly on hawkings)
Why is there even collision after getting unhooked ?
"The Nerf to DS made tunneling way more present in the game than it was before."
False, before it was slugging, and now you just pick up, but you don't get slugged anymore, so it is just as bad but you don't get slugged for no reason ... i like more that balance of DS, and the only problematic thing about DS id that DS is a non-perk against nurse ...
Not all killers are dumb, we do have ears ...
It does do it's job ... and it does it well but you can just loop and gen efficiency is through the roof, apart from in my survivor games...
You chase the unhooked survivor, and they down at 61sec. Its tunneling.
It should be disable being healthy, and remove collision. So it cant be used for body block
yeah i do actually play killer and i play at a reasonable MMR level without running quad slowdown sprinting it down the first hooked survivor, lo and behold the games are way more fun eitherside with more and longer chases. killers dont tunnel because they have to, they tunnel because they CAN
It’s never that simple, and if a killer wanna tunnel please stop stigmatizing that as a deep personal attack on one’s character it’s just a strategy and a valid one at that.
It doesn’t need to be dealt with that’s the biggest thing I wanna advocate for. We need to stop creating this image of the game in our heads that killers are our fairy godmothers and are all trying to get on everyone‘s nice list. I turned on this horror game and chose the role of the killer and my goal is to win just like the standard objective is for almost all players on every game in history, to win. The problem is when players try to bring morality into the video game, again, remind you I’m playing the role of the killer, “the bad guy”… come on… let’s be serious here
so tunneling?
And that’s okay! Killers should have a choice on rather they want to tunnel or not and if they see fit to the situation. Me personally I always do what’s the most optimal in all situations and I don’t want my choices taken away or limited because this very valid strategy in this game has such a communal stigma around it. Historically survivors have had the most broken things in the game and this little shift is healthy, survivors can still escape and to the killers that tunnel they’ll just start to face harder and harder survivors that’ll punish them for tunneling. The game hasn’t been healthier in that sense. I hope you find your fun and have a good day
Whats the issue then with OTR? When you want to tunnel as killer, why not simply hit the survivor after they get unhooked if they dont make sounds of pain? Or is it that you can not down them after unhook right away?
Well let me state the obvious bias here, I play spirit and sometimes even when I don’t tunnel I don’t like how survivors keep their silence part of the perk even after I downed the hooked like 2 other survivors and they have been working on gens healing ect. Bring me back to my old hell with old iron will.
Spirit is probably the killer that suffers the most from OTR. Fortunatly for you, this is not important.
A) Spirit is an S tier killer, that should easily still crush no matter what.
B) OTR gets used by less then 1 out of 10 survivors (i guess it is not THAT great of a perk after all). Should not be to much of a problem tho.
No one ran that perk when it was just those two effects before the endurance buff
OK, neat
If your ground principle is 'I don't care about anyone's fun but mine', you can expect people to respond to your complaints with a resounding 'Then I don't care about your fun either'.
You'll just have to suffer OTR.
Why would anyone run old OTR when you could run old Iron will? IW was considered a top 5 perk before the nerf, and OTR still retains the 100% silence but on a timer.
So your idea is "I am killer my goal is to kill to I will abuse and execute under the most unfair gameplay tactics available to me"
GOOD, now you know why I said I don't think OTR is the problem when you can't even accept that your playstyle OF CHOICE is busted.
Its not about morality it is about common sense and game balance.
Girl can you be so serious with me and stop shaming other’s on how they choose to play the game. Tunneling is a valid strategy there’s nothing I need to accept because I’m secure in the way I play and I won’t let survivors force me into playing by a magical non existent rule book. People seem to have lost the meaning of the word balance. Balancing something is to not add something to one side too much or else it’ll be too heavy and tip off the scale, basekit BT? Added. Anti Face Camping? Added. Gen speed perk for survivors every new chapter when killer’s last gen REgression perk was CALL OF BRINE from when I first got this game with onryo’s release? Checked. Get a grip.
People seem to have lost the meaning of the word balance. Balancing something is to not add something to one side too much or else it’ll be too heavy and tip off the scale
That's a bit ironic...
basekit BT? Added. Anti Face Camping? Added.
We'll get to this in a moment...
Gen speed perk for survivors every new chapter
I think the last gen speed perk to be released was in Tools of Torment with Friendly Competition, a notably awful perk with a pickrate of .37%, according to Nightlight. That's not exactly 'every chapter'.
when killer’s last gen REgression perk was CALL OF BRINE from when I first got this game with onryo’s release?
Killers have a wealth of regression and stalling perks coming in a variety of flavours. Any new ones would not necessarily add to the game as they would achieve the same thing the others do, just in a different way.
But now the big one: You claim that people here have lost the meaning of the word 'balance', and you seem to be eager to argue that with all the buffs survivors have received, killers are overdue for some on their side. However, when we look at the stats on Nightlight, we can see that killers average to a 56.63% kill rate, with a near 50% 3K+ rate. Which means that killers are, overall, doing better than survivors are.
Basekit BT was added, anti-facecamp was added, anti-3-gen was added, we got the HUD update, and in spite of all of that, survivors are still, statistically, the weaker party.
Demanding compensatory buffs for killers whenever the survivors get anything is therefor not pushing for balance, it's pushing to maintain the advantage killers are at.
Besides, even if we were to keep up a childish game of 'tit for tat', I'd like to remind you that 6.1 kicked this whole shebang off with a number of extensive killer buffs and survivor nerfs.
So from reading this and the comments you want a perk to be changed because you are getting countered idk i just think off the record is fine the way it is i just feel like no change needs to be made
Its the law. Same as with Deliverance, equipping this perk is the only way know to mankind to ensure that you will be the first survivor found and hooked.
Not sure why DS came up in a discussion about OTR.
OTR is a good perk although it could maybe do with a bit of tweaking. On maps with LOS blockers, it's not impossible to escape the Killer even after getting hit off hook, at the very least it gets me enough distance to let me use my exhaustion perk (Lithe/BL). If the Killer is still able to keep up with me despite all this, the Killer is being observant and deserves the second down if they catch me again.
If I got hooked in an open area making it hard to LOS avoid the Killer, I would either:
1) Blame my teammate for unhooking me when the Killer is near
2) Blame the map for having too much open zones (Borgo)
3) Blame myself for going down in a dead zone
rather then just think how bad OTR is.
People also keep bringing up how bad OTR is because Killers can hit the unhooked Survivor off hook immediately to proc it. I'm not too sure if this is still happening frequently especially when the AFC helps to mitigate this specific scenario.
Assuming the Killer is proxy camping, the Killer has to walk up to the hooked Survivor, angle themselves accordingly before hitting said Survivor. This would either occur if the Survivor got hooked in an open zone or the unhooker made it pretty obvious they were going for the save which gave the Killer time to react.
The devs have made it clear that while tunneling is frowned upon, it is not something they intend to or are ready to remove entirely from the game, that's why it's not a bannable offense. Yet people keep proposing ideas to kill or heavily dissuade tunneling all the time. At this point it just feels like everyone is just talking in the same space without being on the same page lol
Wowie, what a discussion.
In my opinion, Off The Record is fine. It's not even that strong compared to other perks since you had to be hooked before + Endurance as the only defensive anti-tunnel function is really weak. Especially if you could run Dead Hard or a build with DS, Plot Twist, Flip Flop and Power Struggle.
I know some people dislike the anti-aura reading + no grunts of pain: It has a limited duration and mainly counters killers like Nurse or Spirit. They still leave scratch marks or alert their surroundings. So pay attention to that as well.
So, I don't think its too strong based on the condition of being hooked, having only endurance and a limited duration. And since you are playing spirit: Spirit is already really strong and the iron will nerf helped her alot. If you have issues running into this perk, then maybe choose a perk that helps you counter it. I lowkey enjoy predator on her, you can also run other perks like Spies from the Shadow, Hex: Face the darkness etc. Like you have multiple options and the whole point of perks are to either give you an advantage or counter other perks so the match turns into your favor.
And about the whole Tunneling thing: Play how you want, like I don't care. But perks like OTR are here to make your life harder if you choose to tunnel. So if that bothers you, then I recommend changing your playstyle, perks, addons etc.
This thread reminds me of a game I had awhile back vs spirit who was outright dominating everyone in the lobby until I got into chase with her using OTR and she straight up lost track of me cause of the grunts of pain silence
if anything BHVR needs to create more perks that silence your grunts of pain noises but they shouldn’t be iron will lvl busted and on top of that
get gud killer who loses their skill the moment a survivor’s pain noises are removed from the game
Well Spirit’s whole power heavily revolves around listening to sounds because she loses sight in her power. Sometimes I even like chasing survivors with OTR for that old iron will nostalgia but you understand I can’t always afford to have a chase longer than it should be because of a perk? If they survivor keeps running its fine I’ll hear the footsteps no problem but when they just stand still or starts walking after you lose LOS that brings us back to why old Iron Will was so problematic.
that brings us back to why old Iron Will was so problematic.
Because it acted as a counter to one of the strongest killers in the game?
Iron Will wasn't busted, it was fine.
At least I never had any problems with IW as killer. Sure, Freddy naturally counters stealth, but even with other killers I wouldn't say it was a problematic perk.