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Maybe if things like FTP+BU or BGP didn't happen, people wouldn't realize that slugging as a side objective is so strong especially with all the disincentives of hooking.
It was pretty obvious that we were headed into a slug meta months ago but the devs refused to incentivize hooks. If the devs dont encourage healthy gameplay then is it any surprise the playerbase wouldn't play for hooks?
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You kind of outed yourself when you thought changing Wraith's addons to be similar to Pyramid Head/Freddy was a good idea OP.
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Swf may not have a huge impact on the outcome of games but it sure does make the game feel less stressful to play in a team.
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I'm sorry that Killers aren't running Unrelenting and Territorial Imperative to make the games more enjoyable for you.
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People are just burnt out but they don't know how to take breaks from the game and come back when they feel better.
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Hooking started losing value when BGP got introduced. Not sure why people didn't see this coming.
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Confirmation Bias much OP?
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3792355#Comment_3792355
For most killer items, it didn't really come up that much. The best user was pinhead but pinhead also got a faster box downing the survivor rather than use franklins so it's arguable whether it was an improvement.
But it was another nerf it got, just one I don't think really impacted much.
It made Hoarder + Franklins a "meme" build for Nemesis and Wesker though, but build variety is a different issue entirely.
Hitting a healthy Survivor holding the box with old Franklins gave Pinhead the choice of continuing the chase and picking up the box later or picking up the box first for immediate 1v4 pressure via chain hunt. Both are equally viable I feel
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3789924#Comment_3789924
Here's the history of Franklin's Demise:
Release: Hit survivor drops items and it loses 10% of it's charges. Really only hurt Med-kits that were optimized to contain exactly X heals. Overall a bad perk.
4.1.0 change: Hit survivor drops items and if it stays on ground for 90 seconds, the item is gone. This was an improvement as now keys could be dealt with since keys could be used with 0 charges. Still overall a pretty bad perk.
5.0.0 change: The current iteration. Was a straight nerf until keys got nerfs to not allow opening hatch at 0 charges. Still not a great perk.
Franklin's honestly was never good and still isn't. It's annoying to face as survivor, but it's impact is pretty low unless survivors greed for the items.
Honestly I don't think Weave Attunement itself is even a real issue, because as a standalone perk it's terrible. Without any way to force survivors to drop items all that happens is an item gets used up, it drops, survivor picks up item and gets oblivious for 30 seconds. Really easy to deal with.
I don't have much hope that Weave will get changed in a way to make it a better perk and likely just end up with a quick change like Ultimate Weapon. Ultimate Weapon isn't bad, but the change makes it a good camping perk rather than a good info perk.
Franklin's was also nerfed to not drop Killer related items around the time Singularity was released which meant Pinhead/Wesker/Nemesis couldn't go around hitting said items off Survivors' hands. The perk is literally a shadow of its former self.
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Saying you were tunneled for 4 games doesn't give much context, a lot of tunneling complaints would be able to be verified if a replay system actually existed unless you recorded your games OP.
I say that because while you may have done nothing to provoke the tunneling, your teammates might have done something to annoy the Killer and you just became the target.
I'm sorry to hear you didn't have a good experience though.
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Not sure what you're basing your predictions on OP but I think hex totem builds Ruin/Plaything/Penti will get more traction especially with the two upcoming hex perks from the Dracula patch.
Pain Res will still be staple but pop isn't such a solid pick anymore when Ruin/Oppression exists.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3784035#Comment_3784035
I agree with @jasonq500.
Disagree her first version was very interactive, but with chasing and atmosphere while the other versions are more about spamming only tp for condemned when you get the chance to, which is very boring.
I would gladly give away the slowdown tapes provide to finally get my TVs back on and the item block through tapes is very minor.
Tapes not being interacted with was not a bad thing since it gave you more chances to actually use your tp and if she would be returned to her first version tapes would still be taken more, because of her chase buffs, cooldown reduction, the old mindset…
I would give her her first version some more buffs, but overall she would be a lot more fun than what we have.
How is Sadako 1.0 more interactive when it was far more harder to spread Condemned apart from using Ring Drawing and Iri tape?
If a player wasn't getting constant stacks of Condemned, there was no reason for them to pick up a tape especially because of passive Condemned.
Tvs were ignored so much that using Rickety Pinwheel + Sea Soaked Cloth and walking around Manifested as a M1 killer was actually kind of viable in indoor maps.
3.0 Sadako just needs some addon passes/basekit demerits to holding on to tapes to be fine.
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The point of Endgame builds is that the Killer sacrifices potential hook states during the early and midgame to get a huge power boost at the end similar to an "all or nothing" playstyle.
For every endgame perk brought is one less slowdown/chase/aura perk which should make the completion of gens faster and looping easier. If a Killer with an Endgame build reaches Endgame with multiple hooks, that's on the Survivors for not doing gens fast enough.Completing 5 gens doesn't mean the game is over. Completing 5 gens just means a different phase of the game has begun.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781602#Comment_3781602
So, it's a buff to tunnelling because it prevents We'll Make It?
I'm not trying to be dismissive here, I'm trying to understand your argument. That's the only perk I can think of that'd let you heal in the killer's face, and it's a pretty specific scenario to claim is a blanket buff to tunnelling in general. Even with WMI you really shouldn't be trying to heal in the killer's face like that when they're trying to tunnel, it's not that quick.
Though, when you say that the killer has longer to return to the hook… no they don't? That survivor won't be under the hook because they can't be healed. This could possibly apply to Mangled - and there'd be some back and forth to that conversation too - but it definitely doesn't apply to Broken. A survivor coming off the hook Broken is running straight away, either the killer's going to tunnel them or they're not. Broken isn't going to make it easier after they've made the decision to tunnel.
I think before you discuss whether Broken buffs tunneling, having a mutual agreement on what counts as tunneling would make the conversation smoother.
To some people, the Killer going for a unhooked Survivor is "tunneling" until said Survivor has been fully healed and starts doing objectives. While I don't agree with the definition, I can see how Broken would delay the healing prerequisite.
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@caipt said:
isnt self care meta in asian servers? Plenty of time is already getting spent off gens.
Self care is popular in Japan servers. In the SEA servers, meta perks/strong medkits and toolboxes are commonplace.
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Downsides to holding tapes doesn't even need to be basekit, adding status debuffs to tape holders via her addons would have been fine.
Nerfing the amount of possible locked in stacks upon hook from 4-3 also felt like a feeble attempt to incentivize hooking as Sadako
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Realm blocker would be better.
BHVR doesn't exactly have a good track record when it comes to balancing maps. It would also be far easier to change the effect of map offerings first and revert the effect after all the problematic maps have been reworked.
For achievements on certain maps, they could be toned down or reworked if there's a need to.
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@Z0mbiv0r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3779965#Comment_3779965
The thing is you don't get to choose the skill of your rivals. They're not claiming they're the absolute best, they're just stating that MMR is not working as it should since it pits them against lower skilled survivors. MMR should pit you against teams roughly your skill, but it is obviously not working.
Maybe if OP's post didn't read like a copy paste template of how easy Killer is, I would be inclined to believe them.
Either MMR is broken constantly for them or OP has already gone against the best their region has to offer and OP is stuck in the pond as a big fish
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Play against comp players or strong streamer players.
A big fish in a small pond is nothing when tossed into the big ocean.
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Coddle the players too much and there will be people who throw tantrums when things don't go their way.
These people freely dc/ragequit because there's no longterm consequences. If there was a public blacklist of players who dc/ragequit and these people get lower priority for game matching, they would probably think twice before pressing that disconnect button/give up.
Burnt out isn't an excuse for unsportsmanlike behavior. If the majority of game matches are making people unhappy, then they should take a break.
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Tunneling exists because 4 players are too strong in terms of gen efficiency and 3 players diminishes that efficiency by a lot.
If 4 player efficiency was nerfed and 3 player efficiency was buffed along with tools introduced to encourage the Killer to 4/8 hook Survivors, tunneling would decrease.
It all comes down to hooks or kills, devs still seem set on making kills the main measure of skill in this game.
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Some maps have deadzones where only one hook spawns, so once one Survivor dies on that hook, it's a permanent deadzone.
Instead of fixing hook spawns on said maps, devs decided to just make used up hooks respawn.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3774229#Comment_3774229
I think their goal is to greatly reduce the amount of dodging. And most players are not in Steam.
@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3774229#Comment_3774229
I don't think anyone imagines lobby dodging will be completely eliminated. I think as long as they reduce the amount that it happens it may be enough to improve matchmaking to a higher degree.
I hope they have some sort of data that told them that there's a higher % of dodging when a high Prestige character is in the lobby, otherwise it would just seem like they implemented this change because some people were complaining about lobby dodging because they were P100 ( I recall a few threads talking about this on the forums) which makes it hilarious.
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Wasn't Genetic Limits slanted for an update?
Did devs forget about it or did I change realities without noticing it?
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This change is kinda amusing because amount of game hours via Steam is a far more better indicator of when to lobby dodge.
Someone can have a P1 Claudette but if they're rocking 8k hours in DBD, that's a sign that matchmaking is borked.
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Scratch marks have been broken for months, this is a good update
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My only issue is I recalled seeing Genetic Limits on the roadmap and somehow the devs just forgot about it
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slug seems more worth
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It's counting hooks except on a 8 player scale. Even seasoned players like Otz and Hens were keeping track of Survivors they first hooked even though they probably didn't need to and could just go for chases.
It's the optimization mindset setting in
If it was 9 or 10 gens being required to fix, Killers could probably go for more chases instead of hooks but since there's only 8 gens and lots of pallets on the maps, Killers will have to use strategy to make up for the time shortage
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It's way easier to escape in 2v8 than 1v4 if the Survivors have some idea of how to play.
Isn't there a free weekend ongoing? It could just be more potatoes joining matchmaking.
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If people are complaining about mass slugging which is the minority and not the majority of matches, it implies the majority of matches have been pretty chill and easy for Surv. There's the reason for mass slugging lol
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Assassin for hits
Jailer to distract Survivors
Feels like more QOL changes could be nice to show the difference between Guards
Carnifex: If the intended job of Carnifex is to break pallets/walls or gens, why not use the remote pallet breaking feature from the anniv event with some visual touch ups?
Assassin: Movement speed should be buffed a bit since the purpose of this unit is to get a hit, detection radius could be reduced to compensate
Jailer: Apart from drawing paths, perhaps targeting a specific generator/hex totems and pressing the patrol could spawn the jailer next to it? Something similar to Freddy looking at gens to teleport to.
IMO drawing Patrol Paths should be limited to Assassin because correct prediction = landing the Hunt and injury is good gameplay. If the purpose of Carnifex/Jailer is to break or defend objectives, theres no real need to draw patrol paths with them
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More people should play the different "roles" this game has to offer, it would definitely broaden perspectives of the game.
When I play Survivor, I play Solo Queue and Swf with casual and comp wannabe friends. Each has their own take of how the game should be balanced. Some nights I fail to escape consecutively, some nights I barely even see the Killer by the time 5 gens are done. If someone only plays one side especially solo queue or killer, I would take their opinions with a grain of salt tbh. -
UW could use a larger radius buff from the locker and it would be fine.
People didn't like the old iteration because it bypassed Distortion and they didn't want to bring Calm Spirit.
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If I had a nickel for everytime someone said "You can't punish people for playing with their friends!" Lol
While swf and solo queue may not be that far in terms of escape rate, swf with comms does feel better to play than solo queue and that gets downplayed a lot here I feel. A similar comparison would be PTB and the first live iteration of Vecna. -
Game is called Dead by daylight, not 2 hooked by daylight
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Anything can become a complaint worthy perk in the right scenario
Someone trying to do 360s and getting hit early because the Killer brought unrelenting for some reason could complain that "Killers are being rewarded for missing M1s" with Unrelenting.
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The concept of Survivors 3-genning themselves is probably more widespread than the frequency of Killers locking down a 3 gen deliberately.
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For this idea to work, default gen timers would probably have to be increased to make for such a comeback system.
4 Survivors being efficient is good enough on average, that's why taking out one Survivor early is a good strategy due to the huge drop in efficiency. For a comeback system for 3 or less Survivors, the strength of 4 Survivors has to be reduced.
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Maybe the game could have reached endgame if you took one or two chases? Knowing macroplay can turn the tide of matches when it comes down to games when the Killer isn't actively tunneling/playing chill. If you have been playing since 2016, you should know this to some extent.
Since theres no game replay, we can only speculate why your teammates and the Killer called you out.
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Just don't play Killer.
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No idea who started this "You can't force people to play the game" trend but if they feel forced to play, they shouldn't even be queuing in the first place.
Why should one person's feelings be prioritized and coddled while the remaining players are left to pick up the pieces? -
9 gens would have been fine. Did the devs mention why it was 8 gens, not 9 or 10 in the livestream?
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The BP bonus will show whether this mode is worth playing as Killer or not
My initial guess is not much especially if two Killers get matched together instead of friends queuing up
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I'm guessing this was to address that PTB bug where Knight could send out another Guard and the first one if active just disappears.
Meanwhile window faking throwing off Guard AI becomes a feature lol.
Can't make this up
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@Tostapane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3760627#Comment_3760627
you know, i did a thread exactly on those problems… and since the only way to keep up the pace with those type of survivors is playing "dirty" (aka proxycamping and tunneling), in the next patch even this strategy will be scrapped away due to babysitter buff… and again they are PUNISHING killer for doing those things without giving them a real alternative to keep up the pace with the survivors (aka actually REWARDING killers for mixed hooks). Imo the devs failed once again to understand WHY those tactics are so popular…
Seems like focusing hook states on one Survivor, constant depletion of Bleed out bar on another Survivor and casual slugging the other two Survivors is starting to look more attractive a strategy.
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If Killer mmr is changed to value hooks instead of kills while Surv mmr is still based on escapes, wouldn't that eventually lead to people in "high mmr" only facing Killers who can end chases fast like Nurse, Blight, Billy etc? We already know that people want Killer variety (Complaints about getting Wesker every game), so is it acceptable for the "high mmr" group to keep facing strong chase Killers match after match?
Obviously some of these people would object to this but there's no pleasing everyone in this game. The current sacrificial lamb is Solo Queue, however if devs decide to prioritize the newer/average skill players then I'm down for hooks based MMR -
RIP to the best Killer in shutting down shack loops
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Why would BHVR design a weak Killer? Would that boost sales of their DLC? Would players want to buy cosmetics for a Killer perceived as weak by many players especially if not licensed?
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Gen efficiency is probably the thing that people are complaining about the most but the word gen rush gets thrown around a lot which leads to confusion and counter arguments of "Not everyone Surv brings good toolboxes with BNP every game".
At the end of the day, it still falls on Survivors making mistakes which leads to Killer snowballing. Be it running a loop properly, failing a 50/50 or even just being gen efficient as a whole. That's why Killers try to create situations where Survivors are prone to making mistakes, slugging/tunneling/camping etc