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How often will players go up against a hag let alone a hag running this specific perk/addon combo and playstyle?
It's probably more rare than a 4 man premade running 4 Bnps with second chance perks, did gens in 3-4 min and left.
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Hi OP, you can use the addon Original Pain to put freshly unhooked Survivors into the Deep Wounds state so any endurance they have is negated. Equipping this addon also means you are free to tunnel any Survivor regardless of Dead Hard/OTR and the only 2nd chance perk Original Pain doesn't counter is DS.
Good luck negating all those pesky second chance perks in the fog.
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I'm sorry that 3 seconds is too much for you OP, you could definitely achieve much more in those 3 seconds like finding a cure for the various illnesses plaguing mankind or resolve global warming but you are stuck watching a mori animation.
My heart goes out to you.
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Lack of accountability by just leaving it unchanged with no word. It gives off the impression that devs will say A and forget about A down the road.
I imagine it's because not much people are complaining about it too
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So Killers should give Survivors more handicaps or people should play Survivor less? I see your point but I don't see what your solution is OP
Tbh all these arguing about % kill rate and whether it's " fair or not" is moot since the devs already have their own vision of what is fair for their game and I highly doubt a few forum posts would dissuade them. They could say 90% KR is their goal for the game and no one can stop them save for their shareholders. That's the reality of the situation
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What's there to feel? I don't lose my ability to play the game when I lose my unused medkit from Franklins, I'll just heal with a teammate. OP makes it sound like losing an item equates to a lost game.
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Tapes should give debuffs when holding them if passive condemn is a no go.
Remaking the addons Rickety Pinwheel/Sea soaked Cloth/VCR to having the Survivors be afflicted with Oblivious/Blindness/Exhausted while holding the tapes would encourage players to deposit their tapes off ASAP rather than waiting till they have a high Condemn count.
Having to make choices allows for more skill expression on the Survivors' end. Interacting with Killer props should always have some kind of risk such as Pinhead's box. Regardless of whether a Survivor leaves the box, picks up the box or tries to solve the box, there is always some form of downside or risk associated with it. There isn't much risk from holding Sadako's tape so it makes sense to hold on to it until Condemn stacks get too high or a Survivor is close to being downed + hooked to deny tape destruction.
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@SOULWARRIOR71K said:
or how about we stop with the hand holding and actually require game sense? Both sides already have UI prompts, aura reading etc that help out a ton. Let people have to use their brain every now and then please.
Probably should remove hook counters for Survivors too so that everyone can use their brain equally right?
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Did the devs actually come out to define what tunneling means? Everyone has committed to their own definition of tunneling so much that it's just discussions about apples and oranges at this point.
Having a definition that everyone can agree on or has to abide by would stop a lot of discussions from going off track and energy wouldn't be wasted debating on definitions which is literally only the first step to talking about the actual topics.
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Spies may get a comeback because of languid touch.
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Scott's methodology has flaws, but it carries more weight than a few people coming onto the forums to complain that tunneling is widespread and in every single game.
I'm not too sure if devs have pushed out an official survey asking about perceptions regarding tunneling so Scott's project seems like the next best thing.
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The closest thing to incentivizing hooks is the event remote hook mechanic and that was complained about too.
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Any Killer who forces Survivor players to not loop like they're looping a M1/M2 Killer with lunge/projectiles gets criticized. Blight and Nurse are noteworthy examples.
Knight is probably the best Killer to get a hit at Shack regardless of whether the pallet is dropped, even detaching from Shack is difficult if his Guard is placed correctly. I guess players don't like that. -
Congratz OP, mind dropping your Vod link so that I could check out a few of your games?
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Adding more lockers aside, Dredge could probably get power cooldown reductions/Locker break increases speeds/increased teleport speed when not in Nightfall.
Those would make him feel better to play
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Perhaps Gen kick related perks could activate when Carnifex damages a generator? That would make him more of a QOL Guard. Alternatively increasing the gen regression of Carnifex would also work given how the Guards originally did more gen regression than Killer base gen kicks.
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Guards movement speed needs to be buffed if devs want Knight players to get hits without sandwich situations
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WA just exposes the over reliance on items till the point that players are willing to throw the game to retrieve their item.
Most players running back to pick up the item aren't doing it to deny WA aura value, it's to stop their item from losing charges.
I've had a player DC the other day because he brought a Built to Last Hyperfocus build and his toolbox got dropped early on in the game.
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It depends on the quality of Survivor who's in the Swf. Since I have more hours in Killer as compared to Survivor (70%:30%), I know how to identify what add ons Killers that I'm more familiar with are running when I go up against them (Legion, Wraith, Pinhead, Sadako, Dredge for example) so I tell my swf the counterplay for such addons if it exists, I also have a swf mate running distortion so I use the information from when distortion procs to figure out what aura perks the Killer is running (I've managed to identify Gearhead before)
I wouldn't be too worried if I go up against a swf team like my 3 swf mates but I would be worried if I go up against someone who has some knowledge of the Killer I'm playing and calling out the counterplay in comms.
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With the amount of complaining about WA+ Franklins, I'm inclined to believe a lot of people are crutching on items like a 5th perk and some of them are willing to risk a down just to pick up their item to stop the charges from depleting.
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Wouldn't surge work too instead of beast of prey?
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The remote hooking does make hooking feel less of a chore. Less time spent hooking = more time freed up for more chases
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If you were trying to garner sympathy OP, you probably shouldn't have mentioned you were in a 4 man swf.
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The tradeoff for such strict matchmaking is longer queue times. Are you prepared to wait that long though?
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Wasn't the exposed effect from last year's anniv the only problematic thing that was complained about? Remote hooking (excluding the bugs) is enough for the event to be Killer sided?
Also, how can you get tunneled twice by the Killer but not be hooked OP?
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Good idea, hooking in general is a huge waste of time so being able to reduce the time wasted is a huge QOL
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The mechanics of chase would have to be changed to accomodate this, which may indirectly affect other things like perks which proc when a chase ends or is ongoing.
Chase gets bugged sometimes and either activates only when you hit a Survivor or continues to remain even after the Survivor is not in your FOV for 30 seconds.
The effort is appreciated, just that the technology isn't good enough to support the idea.
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Making endgame much more viable while nerfing gen regression and progression perks would give choices to Killer playstyle. If endgame becomes more viable to play in, Killers would be encouraged to pick more endgame perks instead of stacking gen slowdown.
There are more perks related to gens in some way than Endgame, is it any surprise why people are stacking slowdown?
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Shattered Hope
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738943#Comment_3738943
The kill rate keeps going up despite all the nerfs because the quality of the average killer player keeps going up. The ones who are fed up with the nerfs decide to leave, and the resilient elite ones who stay are becoming borderline tournament player level. They're being pushed so much harder than the survivors to improve, because the determining factor of a loss is not survivors doing well in chase, but doing well on gens. It's been the standout issue in each and every meta. Before, killers could use slowdown without much strategy, as long as they played well, to extend the game long enough so that they could have time to kill all the survivors. Now that it's almost impossible to do that, you're always seeing strategy (camping, tunneling, slugging) and comebacks at the very end (most likely after 5 gens have been done) using NOED, Rancor, No Way Out, Terminus, Blood Warden, Spirit Fury/Enduring instadowns, STBFL x8 + Rapid Brutality, etc. Killers need combos that strong to win, because even before the gen defence nerfs, gen defence was useless vs teams that were fast enough on gens. It's all about getting a random thrown-game comeback at the end because of the survivors' misplays, or simply settling for the draw.
It will be better if more Killer players apply more macroplay to their gameplay, knowing when to detach, chasing the right targets etc rather than just blindly chasing whichever Survivor shows up in front of them.
Whether the average Survivor can improve accordingly to keep up with such a playstyle is a different story though.
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I'm kind of interested in the type of items people are bringing which makes this combination so frustrating to them.
I wouldn't care that much if franklins knocked away my default medkit/toolbox. It's annoying but the game is still playable without it.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738328#Comment_3738328
I have been using it for Wraith and Trapper
I think for Wraith is much easier
May I suggest adding Surge to the build so you don't ever need to kick gens? It helps a lot with pipping too
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In your scenario where the Killer downs someone and camps the downed Survivor till they bleed out, they are not pressuring the other 3 Survivors, which leaves them to either complete the gens and leave or try to save the downed Survivor. Unless the remaining 3 Survivors somehow throw the game trying to be super altruistic, there's a good chance of it being a 2/3 man escape. From a 1v4 perspective, this slug camping strategy will yield either 2 or 3 escapes if the Survivors realize what's going on and crank gens. I'm not sure if the devs would call that unbalanced from a 1v4 perspective.
So it comes down to the personal enjoyment of the one player being slugged that I assume you're having an issue with. I'm all for a player playing in this specific way to be reported and banned if required. Implementing basekit bandaids for such scenarios will just lead to potential for abuse which was what happened during the Unbreakable PTB.
I'm also not sure what you mean by "good gameplay". In fact such a play by the Killer is bad gameplay on their end from a 1v4 perspective. -
@Jaredleto1234 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738531#Comment_3738531
You guys keep saying that slugging is a result of bad survivor play, and I don't disagree. But what about the situations where a killer just wants to slug one person and bleed them out? Why is it okay to leave that in the game? Many killers can indefinitely keep that person on the ground and there is nothing you can physically do.
The bleed out timer is 4 minutes though so "indefinite" wouldn't be the word to describe slugging.
Unless you feel like the bleed out timer should be shorter but I believe it's 4 minutes for a good reason.
As for "nothing you can physically do", Soul Guard + Unbreakable/other perks that allow you to recover from the dying state would give you the ability to make it to another tile. Throw in a well timed Sprint Burst to give yourself more time.
The perks to counter such a situation of being slugged and camped by the Killer exist. However because such a situation does not occur frequently, it doesn't justify constant bringing of the perks to counter this scenario once in 20+ games. I think what you are trying to convey is that you don't want to bring anti slug perks because you won't get value from it for the majority of the games, but you want some form of basekit implementation when slugging does happen so you can continue running whatever perks you like currently.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738226#Comment_3738226
Wait, how many nickels?
And strategy would be derank like crazy then tunnel babies…
5-6 nickels I guess?
Given how matchmaking works, deranking doesn't even guarantee beginner players@Jaredleto1234 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738226#Comment_3738226
I don't have a computer good enough to record and play. I can send you my nightlight stats if you really want them but I just recently started recording the end game screens.
Step 1. Only play trapper if you have 2 good addons and one must be "The trapper sack" no matter what. You have two options for the other addon "iridescent stone" or "honing stone". Iridescent stone is going to be better against SWFs or survivors trying to drive you nuts and for that reason it is the safer option. "Honing Stone" will just destroy soloQ teams and is more aggressive in getting quick 4ks against none SWF teams. The reason you must use the trapper sack, is most of the time wasted on trapper is running around picking up traps. You will lose 2-3 gens just setting up your web if you don't play this addon.
Step 2. Use Corrupt intervention, Nowhere to hide, overcharge, and surge. Corrupt gives you time to set up the traps, on top of either protecting your 3-4 gen or pushing survivors to your web. Nowhere to hide since we have a kick perk it pairs well with Overcharge. Overcharge because you want to be protecting the gens in your web. Surge for the same reason you run overcharge. The only perk here I would never remove is Corrupt intervention, the other 3 can be up to you. I recommend running at least 1-2 regression perks that don't require you to scourge hook. The play-style of iron grasp or Agitation to bring people further into your web can be equally as strong. Just be aware that a lot of times hooking someone in the basement can cause a team to give up and hurt your pips. But if all you care about is winning then a basement hook is almost always an instant win on trapper.
Step 3. The game started now what? Look around and see what the gens look like, try to find an area with 4+ gens that you can almost entirely kill all looping or escapes. A lot of times if a gen spawned in shack you can immediately setup around that area. The goal is to put down traps in high traffic areas THAT CANNOT BE SEEN or places that ALWAYS kill a loop. If you put a trap in a spot where a survivor can see it on a loop, that's a dead trap against good players. So basically in grassy areas along loops, next to window vaults, in high traffic doorways, on stairs. A trick for stairs and doorways is to place the trap slightly down or up the stairs so that it can only be seen once that player has rounded the corner. If the trap can be seen in the doorway from far away, they will see that trap. Remember once you place a trap you cannot move it, it's important that every trap you place is a good trap.
Step 4. Don't get too caught up in setting traps in your web, if someone is doing a gen inside your web push them off and prioritize quickly trapping that area. Do your best to both push people off web gens while also putting down decent traps.
Step 5. Your web is done now what? Easy you just patrol your web and hit people that try to do your gens. If they run into your web keep chasing, if they run away from your web, back to patrolling. You will quickly get the hang of when it's good to keep chasing someone and when its good to go back to your web. Just don't commit to a chase long enough that they could finish a gen or get substantial progress on it while you are gone. If you hook someone away from your web you don't really need to pressure that hook just go back to your web. If you hook someone in your web you can somewhat proxy camp and punish the unhook and in a lot of cases this will result in a free trade. Don't camp so hard that they can pull themselves off however.
Step. Woweee the easiest win of your life.
Thank you for the well written explanation. I have my qualms about using Overcharge but it just comes down to preference. I can see that you do know what you are talking about gameplay aside. My only question is, do you bring map offerings?
I think for your strategy to consistently work, you need to have really good knowledge of how to place traps in every map if you dont use offerings especially huge open ones plus not get countered by one person running a map/following you and calling out your trap spots on comms.
Your 4k as Trapper claim would be "easy" to someone who's accumulated the know how but definitely not something that can be replicated without putting in the effort to learn the maps.But other than that, I can see that you're not just making a sweeping statement to prove a point and I apologize for calling you out on that.
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Franklins being a shadow of its former self and people still having issues with it is hilarious. It's not the end of the world if they can't use their item.
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@Jaredleto1234 said:
Killers throw a hissy fit the second the game doesn't go there way. Want proof? Do a sabo build for one game.
Anyone saying the game is harder on killer is FOS, the last two years has had the highest average killrates ever. The game could not be easier on killer. I can 4k on trapper (perceived as the worst killer) as many times in a row as I want.
Please record some of your gameplay to share with us. If you are easily getting 4ks as Trapper, clearly you know something many people don't know. Please share your strategy with everyone so they can learn.
If I had a nickel for every time someone came in and dropped a sweeping statement with no follow up or evidence to support the statement, yours wouldn't be the first. -
Devs say some things that make them seem quite out of touch.
The way I see it, this reasoning given by them disincentivizes multiple hook games which I thought was supposed to be the more healthy way to play the game.
Guess I was mistaken.
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M1 Killers with some form of TR
Surge + Knockout + Infectious + Chase/Gen block perk
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DBD wouldn't need to have SBMM if it was just for fun and not a competitive game would it? Answer is pretty obvious
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735632#Comment_3735632
Regression events should be the least of your concerning if you are not going for the 3-gen strat. Its literally impossible to reach the limit of 8 playing normally, and if you do, either the survivors are throwing the game insisting on 1 gen or you are throwing the game by not patrolling the other ones.
Also Eruption is not only for aura reading, it regresses the gen by a lot
Gearhead is great for exactly what I said, eats up Distortion tokens
Or you could just never use aura reading perks and let Distortion players run the game with 3 perksIf the goal of bringing Eruption is just to regress the gen by a bit and chew through Distortion tokens, sure it's ok but other perks can either regress or chew through tokens better.
For Gearhead, because Survivor and gen auras are the same + no notification when Gearhead procs, it's not consistent.
I'm not disputing that there aren't perks to burn Distortion tokens, just that Eruption and Gearhead aren't ideal
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735438#Comment_3735438
Interesting how people don't like Distortion but they never run perks that actually eats up all Distortion tokens
Such as Gearhead and EruptionEruption eats up regression events on the gen + the aura reading only matters if the Killer slugs and doesn't hook
Gearhead isn't that good from an accessibility point of view.
They have their weaknesses
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Franklins on hag before this patch already kind of showed how greedy Survivors could get for their items.
Weave literally exposes it.
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I am not in favor of influencing the probability of going to a specific realm be it basekit or offering.
If map offerings had to remain in this game, I would rather them reduce the probability of going to a specific realm.
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Chill swf is fine. It's the ones who bring Eyrie/RPD/Gideon/Badham basement at shack with their perks tailored for the map which makes it obnoxious.
Deleting map offerings would be a good start. There's no good reason for keeping them in their current state apart from achievements which can be reworked and don't impact the game.
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@HEX_DEAD_BY_AI said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3730879#Comment_3730879
I usually use perks related to gens speed or chasing. Sadly, I can't always bring some other perks just to counter Knock Out. I'm a soloq.
You frame it as if Bond/Empathy only exists to counter Knockout and offer no value if the Killer doesn't bring the perk which is definitely not the case especially in Solo Queue where knowing where your teammates are is important.
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@HEX_DEAD_BY_AI said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3730810#Comment_3730810
As I said, slugging was never a big problem until it was used with the perk 'KNOCK OUT' 🙂.
Like the Ghostface guy above, combined with revealing-aura perks, the trial had taken place within around 1 minute.
I don't SWF, so it's a big problem. I couldn't find where my teammates were before the killer found me.
I'm not sure what perks you brought, but Bond, Aftercare and Empathy both counter Knockout. If you're playing solo queue, I believe Bond and Empathy are decent choices. So it's no different from the killer bringing aura perks and you didn't bring distortion, am I wrong?
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Knockout Slug is the solution to the ongoing theme of hook denial that's been present in the past few months via BGP + Blinds/pallet stuns.
Hooking a Survivor when there isn't enough pressure is already a time sink, not to mention many 2nd chance perks activate after a Survivor is unhooked. The upcoming sabotage changes is just the new version of the same theme.If the action of picking up and hooking a Survivor carries so much risk now, then it makes sense to not hook until there's enough pressure.
This means:
- The Killer can look for the next target to chase, which means more chase opportunities/time to interrupt gen completion
- No 2nd chance perks like OTR/DS until the game has reached a point where they dont matter. Most players are bringing these perks to combat tunneling.
- That one player crouching nearby with BGP and a flashlight probably becomes the next person chased, forcing a third Survivor to get off gens to pick up Slugged Survivor
- A Survivor who is a few seconds away from fully bleeding out is no different from a Survivor being on death hook
- Solo Queue or even Swf don't have much experience dealing with such an aggressive playstyle.
- Ultimate Weapon being nerfed leading into a reduction in usage of Calm Spirit allows for Infectious Fright value which pairs very well with slugging.
People seem to think that slugging is just toxic but at this point, it's a different way of putting pressure on Survivors without stacking slowdown perks.
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It will be used by some swf but not all, just like how some swf has one person running a skill check build with Fogwise to call out the Killer position so everyone starts stealthing even before the Killer reaches the gen.
These swf are usually weaker in chase tho and try to use excessive stealth and gen efficiency to reach endgame
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Another point that hasn't been raised is whether there are enough players from different mmr ranges queuing.
The backfilling is speculated to happen when someone of similar MMR dodges the lobby. What about cases where there aren't enough players of similar level playing in the region in the first place? Wouldn't the queue system be forced to grab someone from a higher or lower mmr range to compensate?
There is a possibility that even if lobbies are locked to prevent lobby dodging, there will still be cases of mismatched opponents. I don't think all the "backfilled" situations are purely due to people lobby dodging but probably a combination of dodging and not enough players on both sides for each mmr range.
I say this because last year, I got matched up against a 8k hour Survivor who was streaming. I went back into their vod to check if there was anyone who dodged the lobby prior to me and there wasn't. I had 800 hours at that point in time so I think it would be reasonable to assume that this Survivor would be in a different MMR range from me.
So if there was no backfiling, how did I get matched with this 8k hour player? The most likely conclusion was that there was no one else of a similar mmr range queuing so the game just gave up and chucked me into the lobby.
The lobby locking/hiding player information suggestion probably won't resolve the issue of people from different mmr being matched together, in fact it will become more obvious when it happens.