Player Entitlement in this community is Unbelievable
Shortly after loading into Haddonfield, (one of the many maps that doesn't favour Knight without Call to Arms), I am greeted with the Ada in the middle of the street. She gives up the moment she sees me and doesn't move the whole match. I want to finish the game ASAP so I can verse a team of survivors that actually want to play the game. So I down her and go after the other survivors. The Mikaela gives up as well shortly afterwards. Once everyone is dead I go to the end-game chat to ask why someone would give up at the drop of a hat. This was the brief conversation we had:
I want to preface the argument I'm about to make with some very important facts:
- I am fully aware that DbD isn't a balanced game in the slightest.
- I am fully aware that Knight isn't fun to verse for most people.
- I do not think people should be forced to keep playing a game they find unfun.
Now with that being said...
The people who act like this, who give up the moment a game starts because they have to go against something they don't like, are among the most entitled and toxic people in the DbD community.
I'll now explain why using the Ada in my game as an example. As you may have noticed she's a P100 player, like me. So she would have had to put in at least several hundred hours into the game. Likely over one thousand hours in total. With that in mind it's safe to assume that she is aware of elements of the game that aren't very well designed, or just not to her liking. And that by loading up the game, clicking the "Play Survivor" button, and finding a lobby, that there is a chance that she will encounter something that she doesn't like.
I will testify that there are absolutely things that I hate having to deal with as P100 Knight. Well over 50% of the maps in the game just do not favour him. And if you want to win on these maps you have to pick up the slack of the bad map design and play near flawlessly most of the time. It isn't fair, it isn't balanced, but that's just how DbD is.
I know that when I load into a game there's a high chance that I am going to struggle if I want to do well. It's a fact that I accept because I like playing the character so much and I'm willing to put up with stuff like this so I can enjoy being Knight.
But that does not make it ok to ruin the game for 4 other people simply because someone has to deal with something they don't like. In this case, it was a specific killer. I know that some of you who bothered to read this looked at my build and are thinking: "Knock-Out on Knight? Well of course they gave up! No one wants to be slugged."
Except that the Ada gave up the instant she realised that she was against a Knight. I hadn't even gotten a single down and this person single-handedly ruined the game of 4 other people because they thought they were above dealing with something poorly designed in DbD. People like Ada really don't care about how other people play. They have an arbitrary list of things that they personally don't like. And if they encounter any of these things they will not hesitate to throw the game, or give up, or DC, because they cannot fathom dealing with something they don't like.
Let me break this down for you...
- This player likely put in thousands of hours to P100 a character.
- They did this despite knowing how "unfun" the game was for them.
- They knowingly and willing loaded up the game to play a match with 4 other people who all have to deal with the exact same "unfun" things that they do.
- And the moment they encounter something that they don't like, they prioritise themselves over everyone else because they feel they don't have to deal with things like the other people who also play this game.
- And they repeat this over, and over, and over again because they simply don't care about the other players. Even though they are the only reason they are able to find matches in the first place.
I want to make clear that giving up or DC'ing during a game isn't always a bad thing necessarily. If the game is basically over and the killer is just hooking/waiting for everyone to bleed out because of bad hook spawns, then DC'ing just helps end the game faster for everyone. Or if your 3 team mates just ran into the jaws of a camping Leatherface there simply isn't much you can do and giving up prevents the game from stalling and lets you move onto another match as soon as possible.
And I need to state again that I am not making excuses for the terrible design decisions of this game. We all know that DbD is light-years away from perfect. But if you're going to make the choice of playing it then you have to accept that, at some point, you are going to deal with things that you don't find fun.
And if you don't want to deal with things that you don't find fun, that's totally fine! Load up a different, better made game like DRG and enjoy yourself there. You aren't being held hostage. You are free to do something that, unlike DbD, you know you will enjoy.
But if you keep loading into games, knowing full well what might await you, and you keep DC'ing or giving up, ruining what little fun was left to be had for everyone else, and then refuse to take accountability for your actions...
Then you are part of the problem. And you need to uninstall this game.
EDIT 02/06: Arguing against some of the "counter-arguments" on this thread has been exhausting.
Comments
oh no me got matched against a killer me don't like, me gonna ruin game for everyone else
xd
Good argument /s
Too Bad tsulan addressed it already
But nice cherry picking.
Lobby dodge => slightly longer queue time
DC upon killer conformation => completely ruined the match for everyone involved left behind.
Notice the difference?
Can't blame Ada and that what we all do from time to time. Soloq needs and balance on killer side have been ignored for years and that's inevitable consequences of it. That's why now we have 1000 winstreak Blight.
"Should BHVR add modding?"
Speak for yourself!
The last time I DC'ed from a game was back when Knight first released and they hadn't fixed his power getting permanently broken at random.
And the last time I gave up was when I was first learning the game before any of the maps were re-worked.
And quite frankly, it seems like the majority of people who give up or DC in my games are just looking for an excuse. They don't really care about the balance of the game or solo que. They're just easily upset and care more about their personal fun than the fun of their fellow players.
Still no "Genrushing"-Build at all. I mean, for Forum-Killers probably. But objectively? Nah.
Well, at least she let you sacrifice her. For me giving up usually means DC. DC is a more typical reaction in such situations when seeing a specific killer. Also, she is P100 - the higher your pres the more entitled you feel.
The problem is if it's considered acceptable for someone to give up if they see something they don't like then most games will have at least one person who gives up.
Don't like the killer? Don't like the map? Don't like a player's build? Just give up it's okay. You're not having fun so you shouldn't be expected to have to play.
See the issue?
I don't understand the hate for Knight. The guards pop up next to you at a moments notice, that's exciting surely? You have to then out run a guard and try to avoid being pincered by the knight himself, so that requires being fleet flooted and skilful.
I main Knight and ive watched video's of playing against them and I genuinely can't see why people get so ar5y about him. Yeah 3 gen drags on a bit, but SM is way worse for holding 3 gens.
When you fail to read the next message...
Well, while i see two extra resilience additionally to the toolbox (with a BNP), i also wouldn't call this full genrush.
But my comment was more aimed at the second halve of your post about the lone survivor without any form of improved gen efficiency.
This is good argument for survivors to be able to see killer in lobby so they can also lobby dodge judt like killers can when they think it will be an unfun match.
3x Adrenaline, 2x This is not Happening and DS + Hope. Totally doesn´t look like 1 runner and 2 gen jockeys.
Its a build for people that don´t want to waste time with healing and prefer to push gens, since they get healed by Adrenaline anyway. At least, thats how i would play this.
But i loled at the Forum-Killer.
Ditto. Knight is one of the few killers that really tests your map knowledge and positioning. Versing him is always fun for me!
Exactly!
This attitude only serves as an excuse to give up the moment something "unfun" happens. It's very unhealthy for the playerbase and shouldn't be encouraged or justified.
you said load outs were aimed for gen rushing and there is only one person with a toolbox with streetwise. i didn't pay attention to the perks and checked after reading your comment and i legit thought it was multiple people with hyperfocus stake out toolboxes. if you meant adrenalines, idk what to say
oh you did mean adrenalines... i see 2-3 people with that on average every match so it's pretty common. i didn't think survivors being efficient and aiming to finish gens would be considered gen rushing
Knight isn't even that bad.
OP, have you played survivor? Specifically, have you played solo survivor, for at least ~500 hours, ideally at a decent MMR.
As survivor, half the matches nowadays feel like a waste of time that makes you literally regret playing. You can enter the match, and in 10 seconds see one of your teammates get downed then camped/tunneled. You can sit on gens for the whole match, then die to NOED and your teammates leave because they don't know how to rescue you. You can face a sweaty Nurse while your teammates cleanse dull totems for their challenge. Then, you get a series of five Skull merchants who play a tower defense, and when finally you think you got a normal game, you get slugged on the ground for the full 4 minutes because the killer did not like that you ran him for a bit too long.
So as survivor, you basically accept loss after loss, hoping the next game will finally be good. You usually know from the first 30 seconds whether it's going to be a bad game or not. This Ada probably thought it was a bad one, and AFK's to speed up the process. I won't really argue whether she should be allowed to do that or not, but I will argue that just by looking at the endscreen I can tell with reasonable confidence that she was right: this match is not going to be fun.
First, look at this matchmaking. In the same lobby, you have 3 experienced survivors, and 1 clueless Thalita who only asks to get tunneled at 5 gens. Maybe you, as killer, want to play nice, but survivors don't know that, and seeing your hatch offering, probably think they're facing yet another killer on a 4k winstreak. You also have knockout for some reason, which is a perk I've only seen be used with malicious intent, ie. excessive slugging. Then finally you're playing knight, so they can't even have fun getting chased. They'll have to hide and sit on gens all game, only to lose it anyway because the odds were flawed from the start. Maybe you are going to actually chase them, but again, they can't know that, and it would be unreasonable to assume it from their end, as their last 10 matches against knight have been long boring 3-gen scenarios.
One of your argument is "You should not queue if you don't like certain killers", but there are two problems with this argument. The first one: there are now 32 killers in this game, at this point I doubt you can find someone who doesn't hate at least one of them, be it for balance reasons (eg. Nurse/Blight/Spirit too strong), uninteresting gameplay (Knight/SM/antiloop killers) or other person-specific reasons (eg. Plague vomit effects, Dredge dark screen). You as a killer don't have to face this dilemna, since you're playing against only 1 type of survivor, and while maps/perks still play a major role, it's not like playing 32 different games at the same time.
The 2nd argument is that, you're telling people to leave and play something else, but that's already what most people actually do. Judging by Steam charts, the majority of players only come to play at events for a few weeks, then immediatly leave. In the past, the game had a much better player retention. The players you are seeing DC in the game are a minority, the majority are actually following your advice.
TL;DR: I understand your point, but for fairness, you can't call it "entitlement" as the killer role isn't facing the same miserable design decisions as the (solo) survivor role constantly does. Imagine if you, as killer, were facing full P100 SWFs sending you to MacMillan, say ~75% of the time, and you cannot dodge. Would you play these matches?
Only pushing gens while not caring about heals and ignoring everything else IS the definition of gen rushing.
Or how would you define a gen rush?
let's say i just don't mind gen rushing without the aid of very strong tools like bnps and hyperfocus/stake out.
besides, you said survivors had gen rush builds, and i'm certain adrenaline/resilience isn't that.
People aren't bringing Resilience and Adrenaline if they aren't trying to get the gens done quickly. Not to mention, these are the OG gen rush perks, because old dbd didn't have a lot of options to increase gen speed.
what kind of survivor doesn't try to get the gens done?? sorry i just don't get it i guess
Only focusing on gens while ignoring everything else... having tunnel vision aimed at the gens, so to speak... I just can't think of a snappy term for that...
While I get your point, calling people selfish for not enjoying playing against a certain killer is a bit hypocritical. I mean, you clearly play Knight for a reason, you enjoy him. Even though you admit the majority doesn’t like playing against him. Does that make you selfish for not caring about the other side having fun? No.
Everyone is inherently self-interested and are going to do things that garner them more enjoyment. Whether that’s you playing Knight or survivors wanting to play any of the other 30 killers on the roster. You can’t change people, and expecting them to do so is asinine.
A 9% repair bonus and a perk that heals when all gens are completed. I´m not a fan of Adrenaline (in terms of using it myself) but its pretty strong when used correctly. Having a SWF team would make the timing easier. The amount of times a down would be nullified by Adrenaline is pretty high.
Anyway, i think we getting a bit off topic. Since they gave up early in order to complain about a killer they didn´t like. I honestly think that people should log in with their build before the matchmaking takes the decision to match accordingly. So players with red addons get matches against each other.
Ohh let us guess
Was it gen tunneling? Rush gen? Gen vision?!
Its on the tip of my tongue...
adrenaline is strong, especially after the introduction of activity hud. my point was, again, having an intention to "gen rush" doesn't equal having a gen rush build and there are way stronger perks for that than resilience.
but don't get me wrong i 100% agree on the statement that most people are hypocrites when it comes to caring about other side's fun. people would bring the strongest builds, play the most boring and annoying way and expect the other side to do the exact opposite.
What else is there to do? Healing and unhooking are the only other things to do and if they choose not to heal, then that simply makes chases easier for you. I don’t understand how people actually expect survivors to not focus on the one objective they have.
Sounds like you're feeling entitled to fun gameplay with a killer that's notorious for being one of the least fun killers to play against.
Just because there are a few God awful characters in the game doesn't mean the rest is unfun and the whole game that I've paid for should be binned. If 95% of my games are fun and the remaining 5% I prefer to opt out of, that's not a reasonable motive to abandon the whole game.
OP, you are 100% overreacting. Yeah the Ada 100% threw a tantrum and I won't actually defend them. But they didn't tell you HOW to play or WHO to play, which would be actual unwarranted entitlement. All they did was say that want to opt out of one the universally hated bunch of killers. That said maybe they do this to all killers, but you're playing The Knight, a character that has a bad reputation for a very good reason, so one can safely assume they've probably have a crap experience.
That is the risk you're taking with this killer, and you are NOT entitled to people enjoying it or playing the way you want. If they want to go next, they'll go next.
I have no patience for those people. However, neither do I hook them. I slap them into the dying state where they can either bleed out or disconnect. Whichever they choose, I have the time.
I don´t need a specific build to just focus gens. Some perks are better for that than others. Maybe their intention wasn´t to rush. But its the way i would play with that build.
Btw. i noticed 2 posts ago that it wasn´t This is not happening, but Resilience. Now i´m doubting my own eye sight.
And yes, people just need to play both sides more. In order to understand why killers/survivors do something, instead of just getting mad at the other side. Because i´ve seen the most ridiculous rants from both sides, for completely valid plays. That were not unfair or scummy at all. But sadly, this community has a extremely strong bias towards one side.
lobby shopping causes more damage than “slightly longer queue times.” It also harms the MMR system. There was one guy here—he’s probably someone you’d find agreeable—who admitted that he lobby shops specifically to pair with much weaker survivors. Then he destroys them. So it’s certainly more caustic than your dismissive platitude about queue times, hon.
But lobby dodging borks up the matchmaking and creates backfilling, often leading to very one-sided games.
Its a pretty sad fact that there is nothing in the games mechanics that incentivises fair play, and quite the contrary, EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. I showed mercy on a survivor on death hook and left them slugged, I paid the price for that by getting laughed out at the exit gates and "ggeeeeez. Lol. Git gud."
I really wished BHVR implemented some kinda of system where survivors get debuffed and the killer get their old BBQ bloodpoint bonus, when the killer manages to hook everyone once without killing anyone off. But such a behaviour is only fit for the lower MMR regions and is hamstringing everyone who plays the game even halfway serious.
Knight ain't a killer they can bully so better for them to just give up.
those kind of players are generally pretty clueless to the fact that you are actually being nice, aka new players so i wouldn't worry.
and they really need to incentivize fair play because killers currently have no reason not to tunnel; given it is objectively the "smartest" choice a killer can make if they want to win.
I mean ok… you never know what the other players games were before yours. Maybe they got knight the game before your knight game. Players dont sign contracts to stay in matches. And if they leave then who cares you win the match. Winning is the only thing that matters to some players anyway
Unsportsmanlike conduct, griefing their team, exploiting a loophole to avoid a DC penalty?
Once the Bot Survivors are introduced for DC’s, this type of behavior likely will become bannable with enough reports.
Play normally, then “get distracted at the possibility of a self-unhook”. Then you’re at least utilizing the tools the game offers you, instead of just pouting and choosing not to engage when you had said you were ready to play the game.
Well, you seem to be quite dead-set on your opinion, I am just repeating what I know Mandy or other staff members explained time and time again was considered unsportmanlike behaviour and griefing. One think for sure, no one will ever consider this an Exploid, and you can argue as much as you want, but thats a fact. But alas, I will rest my case. Good bye.
Projecting much? Quite a dismissive opening and ending.
Eventually this scenario will need to be addressed:
”I don’t like this Killer/Map, but I don’t want more DC time penalties. Instead of DCing I’ll just sit AFK, these guys won’t get a bot and it’ll be a 1v3 instead of a 1v4 making it extremely hard and unfair, but I don’t care.”
It has been repeatedly said that what the Ada did was not a bannable offense. Also, calling not playing exploiting a loophole is pretty comical.
And why would it become a bannable offense when bots are introduced? What's the logic behind that?
Edit: Just saw your other comment. While that definitely could become a problem, I highly doubt that that will be players intentions. People would rather just not wait out the DC penalty, not actively think "I'm gonna turn this into a 3v1 for teammates instead of adding the bot". You'd have to change a lot of aspects of this game to address that issue, and in turn it would more than likely punish people who just happened to have something IRL come up before a match.
Ok so... what if the Survivors could see what Killer they are going against
Would there be more or less lobby dodging?
What if the Survivors could see the perks the other Survivors are bringing would that lead to more or less lobby dodging
What if they did add the Killer bans... what then would Killer give up playing the game cause they can't find a match with a specific Killer
Like where do we draw the line?
This is my mentality as well. Aint going to give people crap for something so many do. Its not a big deal. I've never cared too much when its happened to me, I just try to do what I can in the match until I'm dead. If the killer wants to keep trying, I will keep trying too until I die, or just try to farm points as fast as possible. If I'm the killer, I usually just let the others farm points with me and/or give 1 of them hatch.
There's no obligation or requirement to stay in a match you don't find fun or don't believe will be fun. If thats based on a certain killer, certain perks being run, map, etc...it doesn't matter to me. You should never be forced to stay in a match. And its not like survivors have any idea who the killer is in the pre-match lobby, so they can dodge if they choose to.
Can't blame em.
Not really.
Survivor look all the same, as in you can't see what kind of item quality they are carrying and what perks they have.
Killer all have vastly different popularizes leading to partially immensely inflated queue times.
But sure let's implement it, no skin of my back, i don't play anymore.
Just another idea i wish the devs would implement just for you and me to see how much it would break. 😁
Nice accusation, i have never "lobby shopped" and only one intentional DC in my 300 hours.
Also please, the matchmaking is already in the dumps in favor of short queue times.
Also, also don't call me hon. I just can't take anybody seriously when they use derogatory terms like bro, dude, hon and so on. (Same with written rofl, lmao or lol)
So did the softening of matchmaking parameters in favor of speed. I have given up on this system when it was ranks and this new one has devolved into something that's not any better.
Still ragequitting is a more atrocious problem.
I want them to either show killer so survivors have option to dodge OR skip the lobby/offering screens and have players go directly from "looking for match" to loading into match so neither side can dodge.
Honestly I think the dodging one will be hilarious. Have killers dodging high prestige, anonymous, thinking it's swf and items while survivors dodge specific killers and high prestige. Be great to see what the matches are like when finally get a lobby willing to play with eachother. 😂
That's literally how it was when I started playing dbd.