Why are devs so silent on midchapter desaster?
Let's be honest. The midchapter is a desaster on several levels. When do we get some statements on the miserable situation? Will they try to sit it out? Do they think data will change miraculously if they waitlong enough? Feedback from ptb was ignored, they purposely forced their "balancing" unto the community. How long do we have to suffer from this disastrous midchapter? How many players are they willing to sacrifice for their unreasonable changes? They really need to put up some extraordinary statement to justify this mess.
Tagged:
BHVR
Comments
Map tiles are still incredibly unfair for killer- you should be able to force them to give up the chase or to lose most gens, in most cases. The BT boost is also enough to reach a tile
I think they did many good things in version 6 release but can agree that emotions are running high right now - especially for survivor mains.
One of the best ideas was to make action around generators more participative by both killer and survivors.
In doing that, they made some over-calibration in buffing/nerfing some slowdown perks. However, this can be corrected and I believe that they will.
It is a delicate balance to make a asymmetrical game that is fun for all roles all the time.
Give them some time to re-balance. I don't think making knee-jerk corrections are the best way forward as the collection of perks/add-ons/powers are immense and sometimes you just can't predict how conniving humans are going to exploit them.
And?
Play killer, then you benefit from the changes.
We're all players who play both sides here. Except for the weird ones who refuse to play one side or the other.
This patch was not a disaster. I probably play more killer usually, but I've played a hell of a lot more survivor (solo) since the patch due to queue times and it's been fine, apart from the first few days where all my team mates threw tantrums and ragequit.
The worst "killer buffs" of this patch - is a survivors giving up.
If someone tells me the earth is flat I'm disagreeing because it's obviously not true.
Just don't get caught bro. Stealth is so good in this game. If you are seen at all during the trial, by teammates or the killer, then are you really playing survivor optimally?
Thank god we're talking about a video game, and thank god it's obviously not as clear cut as that, eh?
Camping and tunnelling have always been the bane of solo queue, and the patch not only did not alleviate the problems with those strats, but it made them worse.
They did nothing to address camping, no basekit Kindred, no hook relocating à la Pyramid Head, no gen repair speed changes based on proximity to hook, not even the most ridiculous stuff like hook grabs and Bubba facecamping being remedied. Instead, the reduced hit recovery time means downing the unhooker is guaranteed, that is now the worst case scenario, and if you add STBFL on top of that there's little reason not to hardcamp even with M1 killers if you're looking for easy success. Increased gen times also benefit camping. As does the new Monstrous Shrine, for killers that can camp at a distance.
Tunnelling has also gotten worse. 5 seconds of Endurance most of the time does not get you anywhere, and even with Borrowed Time or Off The Record, lots of killers have an easy time downing a survivor quickly after hitting them off hook. OTR is simply not good enough a replacement for Decisive Strike, the distance you used to make with DS was much more impactful, not least because it could even allow for the tunnelled survivor to lose the killer altogether.
There's so many simple and obvious things they could do to make camping and tunnelling less effective, but they never do, they have been the most effective strategies since game launch and they continue to wreck especially solo queue, while at the same time being some of the least interactive and engaging gameplay aspects and causing dissatisfaction and frustration for many players every day. I wouldn't want to remove them entirely, I do think they have their place in the game, they can create chaos and excitement and the danger factor of games potentially being able to turn or end within a short span (for a player or a group) just makes the game more thrilling, differentiates the gameplay experiences from trial to trial more... but they don't have to be the objectively strongest killing strategies in the game for this to be the case, nor do they have to be as oppressive as they are. Directly nerf camping and tunnelling, and buff other gameplay aspects of killer gameplay instead, such as chase strength, gen control, map presence, information available...
For camping, a good start would be to remove hook grabs and make it impossible for killers to use their abilities within 10 or so meters of a hooked survivor, just like you already did for some of the new killers. Bubba, Trickster, Hag, Huntress, Billy, Pyramid Head, Myers (stalking) - these killers have much too easy a time defending hooks. Basekit Kindred could be something, or alternatively a hook relocation mechanic similar to Pyramid Head, where the hooked survivor will be respawned at a different hook location if the killer is within a certain range of their hook for a certain period of time. Only that the range has to be drastically increased for that (and for Pyramid himself too - it's ridiculous to have a 5m "camping" range for a killer with a 8-10.5m ranged attack that can instantly hit both the unhooking and unhooked survivor). Basement hooks could be exempt from all of this. Perks that increase unhooking speed should actually apply to the entire interaction, rather than only a portion of it. There could also be more of such perks, or buffs to the ones that exist now.
Ideally there would also be base game changes to make tunnelling more difficult, but at the very least, DS should be able to activate up to two times. Preferably they up the stun timer again. Base unhook Endurance should be 10-20 seconds (removing collision during this time is a good idea), and unhook Haste 60 seconds, as Haste is only good if you're in a continued chase, a few seconds of it are basically worthless. It would also be beneficial to reveal the aura of the most recently unhooked survivor to all other survivors for as long as they are injured, such that they can take hits for them, lead the killer away from them, heal them, position for save plays on them, and so on.
Also nerf SWF. It's clear solo buffs are not coming, you've been talking about it for years and years and next to nothing has happened in that regard. Plus any such buffs could never even hope to adequately close the SWF-solo gap anyway, not only because voice communcations and coordination are just such a huge deal, but also because any solo buffs would inadvertently benefit SWF as well. Nerfing SWF is the easy and obvious solution. That would then allow to better adjust the killer power levels for both scenarios. An easy and effective way to nerf SWF is to limit their ability to stack perks and items, allowing only one instance per perk and item/add-on in a pre-made group. That would also shake up the meta a lot. Tournaments already go to show that even lower-tier killers stand a perfectly good chance against even some of the most coordinated and best teams of survivors in the game with perk/item limitations in place.
Nerf Nurse and Blight and some select add-ons. For Blight, getting rid of hug tech, reworking Alchemist Ring and slightly nerfing Compound 33 is enough. A simple way to make Nurse a much more balanced character is to decrease her post-blink lunge range (basekit White Nit Comb) and make her blink hits not count as basic hits. Without the huge lunge that allows her to hit anyone even just roughly within her blink location and to correct for a wide range of errors, she is less forgiving and good Nurses are rewarded for their precision. Without blink attacks counting as basic attacks, Nurse won't be able to make use of perks like Starstruck and NOED as oppressively anymore. Also make it so that her range add-ons increase fatigue and recharge time by the same % they increase range by. Some of the add-ons that could need specific looking-at are Rusty Shackles, Tombstone Piece, Iridescent Head, Redhead's Pinkie Finger, Mother-Daughter Ring, Dried Cherry Blossom.
Compensatory killer buffs could be global movement speed increases, increased pallet break and window vault speeds, the abilitly to cancel pallet break and window vault interactions and thereby to fake them, much faster wall breaking action, reduced hit recovery times, seeing their red light, more information on gens (auras indicating progress), basekit Corrupt Intervention, base generator regression being 1/3rd of a charge a second rather than 1/4th, basekit 20% Weasel (-18 seconds) on the gen farest away from the hook with progress on it (highlighted for the killer), gen repair speed increase whenever the killer is chasing the survivor that was most recently unhooked or is within a certain range of a hooked survivor, gen repair speed decrease whenever the killer is chasing a survivor while another survivor is hooked, and whenever they are chasing a survivor that is not the most-recently-unhooked survivor. Also killer-specific ability and add-on buffs of course.
The survivor tantrum is such a disgrace. Small killer buffs did not do anything bad to the game. Survivors suiciding on hook every. single. game. because they're wah wah that they don't get their bottle for free anymore. It's pathetic and embarrassing that the community is so quick to take their ball and go home when they face the slightest bit of a challenge.
I've played survivor more than killer this patch, and have never, EVER seen so many survivors intentionally tank games before. They have zero tolerance. The first whiff they get of a potential loss, they just insta die and go next. They should be forced to spectate until the match is over.
They learned to weaponize DC/Suicides after the original Legion release and have used it to get what they want ever since
I play a LOT of survivor, almost 50/50. My games, especially as a solo, have been harder, but not unwinnable -- and if they have been, it's more often than not because someone on the team is purposefully sandbagging or outright throwing by DC'ing immediately or suiciding on 1st hook. I'm still having fun. (This is the part where you tell me "You never play survivor -- you're lying!" :rollseyes:).
Let's see -- one is a proven, scientific fact about the nature of the universe, while the other consists of anecdotal experiences by people in a VIDEO GAME that may differ, depending on a number of random factors and vairables.
So someone disagreeing with YOUR experiences because someone else's may be different is akin to their calling the earth flat. That's exactly the type of ridiculous hyperbole nonsense that makes me hope the developers go their own way and ignore 95% of the noise that comes from this forum, since that's exactly what it is -- mindless noise.
ETA: I've gone on record in other threads saying I have issues with some of the changes -- the DS stun time for one was completely unnecessary, for example, and that should be reverted -- but some of the overreactions people have made so far have been exactly that. The idea for the changes was to shake up the game, and in that, it has.
It was an example, sorry that you got so offended by it.
Kinda late on the devs not listening to the forums, since most nerfs happened because of the whining that was happening before on the forums.
If I seemed offended, it's because people who ignore actual important science -- like the acknowledgement of the Earth being a sphere -- are dangerous in the vital, bigger picture of how the world operates. That's such a far cry in importance from whether or not playing survivor in a video game is harder now or not that, I'm sorry if it offended you, but it deserves to be called out. There's nothing personal intended towards you with that, just that comparison.
And I don't know if the devs listen to ANYONE. Their Fog Whisperers have suggested changes to make the game better for years, and it's debatable if any of their feedback ever gets or has gotten beyond the discussion stage.
Saying that survivors got absolutely nothing is asinine when killing the Pain Res+Deadmans combo on its own was such a massively positive (And, in my opinion, necessary) change for survivors that its hard to overstate it. Ruin is effectively dead, which frequently caused more slowdown in the early game than even a fully stacked thana does now (and ruin didn't require multiple injures to get value out of it), and while ruin could be discovered early, it could just as easily be in some tucked away corner of the map, be recovered by undying, or be instantly replaced by pentimento.
The small endurance effect on unhook was not meant to be a replacement for actually running unhook perks, it was meant to provide a small window of protection that lets you get to nearby loops with a small speed boost, and most people are combining it with exhaustion perks to pretty good effect. As far as significant protection goes, being able to decide for yourself to have a longer term endurance effect with Off The Record is huge, because I don't need to care about my team having the right perks necessarily during unhooking outside of the endgame.
There were bad changes this patch (DS stun time nerf was outright a poor decision, as one example), and I would like to have more base kit information in solo queue, but calling it a disaster/some kind of irreparable failure that needs to be reverted immediately is completely ridiculous.
thats the funny thing killrates for like b tier/Highrate killers and up are probably flourishing while c tier/Lowkillrate killers and below are still stuck in the mud cause your not directly buffing them the baseline buffs only made the good better and the worse meh
Solo games actually feel better for me. My teammates are now more cautious about engaging the killer and chases still function the same. Aside from the dh change, nothing seems to have made things more difficult.
I play more survivor than killer, the patch is mostly good.
Survivors aren't a hivemind
Yes, small killer buffs don’t help killers a lot, but massive survs nerfs and massive killer buffs did
I...are you real?
You understand that Survivors with Haste aren't faster than the Killer, right?
Yea and I guarantee I have more experience than you. The point is not that you outrun the killer, it’s that you can make it to a tile
How do I make it to a tile when they are right in front of me?
Reading through this topic really reminds me of:
https://youtu.be/M4YW6eugRsQBecause that's your opinion.
What do you mean probably? He said it!
Thanks for your non responses, as usual
This is obviously the consensus of the vast majority of players.
My sister fits with almost all of these. Damn glad I cut ties with her
Sorry for going off-topic, though. Needed to get this off my chest. Anywhoo...
NeutraWHAT. We dont do that here, filthy killer main.
So we aren't going to mention the fact that survivors could bring certain offerings and just run to a specific spot on the map and be completely unhookable but no they changed it because killers just didn't like it not because it was busted on a handful of maps.
Played 3 games on badhamen and honestly it didn't feel any different. Survivor sided maps are still way Survivor sided but it seems that killer sided maps are way more killer sided.
P.s. I was killing in those three matches
You use the 5 seconds to reach one or you get hit and use the speed boost.
It's honestly fascinating,it feels like there's a group of solo queue players that have the best times of their lives with this update and then the people who are experiencing nuclear annihilation of their relatives.
I noticed this, toom I am having a pretty good time in soloQ right now and am thoroughly enjoying myself, but I'm not doubting that its hellish for some others.
I am still trying to figure out of its "just a skill issue", saltiness because of the changes or something else entirely. But I can't just talk this people down and call it a day.
This showcases again what I think is always the problem: different MMR brackets in dbd have different balancing issues and problems, yet al play under the same rules and checks n balances. I am not saying that we should have different rules for the different levels of play, but maybe ot could be the solution and should be thought about?
I honestly wonder if the alternate timeline of Rank based matchmaking is enjoying a far,far better time...
Ah, the majority is never wrong.
It seems pretty clear Solo Q people are not having a good time Is it healthy for the game to wait months on end for a solution?
Git gud.
I agree. I have been playing solo queue survivor more now because the killer queues are so long. As soon as we load in a match, I see a DC because they hear The Legion's chase music, or hear The Nurse's shriek or see The Blight. If they don't DC, the kill themselves on first hook.
The biggest detriment to Solo Queue survivor are the teammates that DC or kill themselves first hook before they have a chance to be saved.
True. I don't hook survivors who give up, let them lie down and think about their behavior
Honestly believe half the basekit killer buffs will be reverted. Why they didn't do both the solo q icons and the killer buffs in the same patch I'll never understand.
Your not punishing them, they've alt-tabbed to respond to forum posts...
Booo!
So.. what is the kill rate that BHVR would like? We would like more transparency.
They've said before that they want an average of 2K per game, which equates to a 50% kill rate.
Therefore we know that kill rates before the patch were <50%.
I don't get this community, I really don't get this playing community. Survivors complain when killers get something good, killers complain when Survivors get something good which let's be real, it's mostly survivors that get the benefit of chapter releases.
THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE MID-CHAPTER RELEASE
Solo Queue is meant to be HARDER, it's meant to be TOUGHER and nothing has changed in solo queue, it is still tougher to do and it is still fun to play.
Killers have been tunnelling and camping for longer than I played for, its not a new thing that suddenly happened after the mid-chapter release. Killers who are doing it now, well meh to them and off the record should not disable after killers lands an attack on you, that sort tunnelling and think that was the plan but PTB stacking happened.
This mirage of something wrong with the mid-chapter release is nothing more than survivor's mains whining because for once killers got favoured in a chapter release. This was a brilliant mid-chapter release, there are some perks I don't agree with being changed but it shook up the meta just like it was attended to. The reduced grind and quicker path to playable characters are fantastic.
Seriously starting to believe more and more that the biggest problem in DBD is the community of people who play the game.
Good stuff. This is the correct attitude - right now you've got a lot of noise and it's hard to find a clear signal.
Give it a bit, see what the numbers look like.
Then im surpriced killers tunnel and camp now almost every game which is understandable after BBQ nerf.
I'm not sure how that connects to what I'm saying here. Could you elaborate?
Binding of Kin and Resident Evil literally making the game almost unplayable would like a word with you
The devs 100% DID address things in the ptb. Plenty of us do like the update, the complainers are not speaking for all of us. I love the update. maybe a LITTLE windback, a little, if any.
I'm still escaping just fine, and still get bully squads as killer. I still also get tunneled and also get MANY 4ks as killer.
everyone complaining expects to have a 100% win rate and its entitled and childish.