Boil Over Change Incoming - BHVR Official Tweet
https://twitter.com/DeadByBHVR/status/1488950414183649290?s=20&t=S4vGoYPwJhmb04xxnDfrIA
What do y'all think?
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BHVR
What do y'all think?
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Comments
Well yeah, prior to the buff it was hot garbage. The new stagger is pretty crazy though.
I think it’s a fair change.
It should not give you bonus wiggle, this was mistake. They buffed this perk with very wrong way. It was abusable, people told this already at PTB. And now they nerfed it.
It should have been strengthened in another way. Not bonus wiggle. But they did not this, anyway.
So what we had? Dead perk. What we have now? Dead perk. Why? Very situational. So BHVR did not anything good with this perk.
This is why i am upset.
Yeah, sure.
Finally.
Now what about dead man's switch?
It should have been strengthened in another way. Not bonus wiggle. But they did not this, anyway.
So what we had? Dead perk. What we have now? Dead perk. Why? Very situational. So BHVR did not anything good with this perk.
Exactly this. It takes forever for perks to get reworks / updates outside of number changes. Boil Over had its one chance of getting an update, and now it likely won't get another one for years, if ever.
Great change. Should put a stop to the 'you can't hook me from here nyah nyah nyah' problems.
You vastly underestimate how strong the increased sway is. It negates Pain Resonance hard.
Finally one person understood me, thanks man <3
Yes, this. They buffed Boil Over to abusable statu. And then they nerfed it. But this perk never needed wiggle bonus. It needed buff but not this. Now Boil Over will stay dead for years maybe forever.
It's 100% deserved, the abuse with this perk had to stop! Good job BHVR!👏
So you use BOil over and you know the killer will hook you anyway, but if he has PR perhaps he couldn’t use it. Trash perk
I ran the perk as a test in KYF lobbies, and it was incredibly abusable on so many maps, it wasn't funny. Tried it out as a solo and got multiple escapes through wiggling. Ran it as a solo and ended up against a poor Clown on Ormond who had to deal with 2 No Mither players who kept running to the upstairs of the main building and either wiggled off or picked themselves up. Lots of "fun" for everyone.
As killer, I've been playing around it when I see someone is running it. The current state of the perk is a lot like old OOO -- potentially useful in solo, but completely abusable in coordinated SWF. This change sounds like a positive one.
Speak for yourself on Lucky Break. I never dreamed of touching Lucky Break before it hid scratch marks, and now I run it on maybe a third of my survivor builds. It's super strong, especially with CoH to free up the medkit slot. The main reason I don't run it more is because it kind of needs Iron Will with it and that's one of the meta perks I tend not to use.
Boil Over's going to be pretty dead, though. People used it either out of curiosity, which fades, or because the cheese strategy was so effective, which it won't be now.
How would you suggest buffing it, then? Because it's in a pretty tricky class of perk. It's hard to buff in a way that's both meaningful and doesn't potentially make it uncounterable.
Also, I did lose a couple of hooks to the stagger. It's extra potent with bodyblocking, but even without it, it makes getting through doorways very tricky. RPD was the map I was affected worst by it because you have to take very specific paths to reach hooks, but I got caught on shack or main building a few times. It's a very situational effect, so it's not good enough to run, but it isn't useless either. Compared to Buckle Up or Distortion, Boil Over got a decent buff here.
Play some killer yourself, then come back. The amount of swf's that abused this perk is crazy!
Actually pretty neat change. Sorta reminds me of the Soul Guard cooldown, which was laser-focused on players building around squeezing every last bit of potential out of the perk while being less relevant for "normal" use.
Less beneficial for the whole "run to elevated area and go down over and over" thing, the most likely situation where it'll have an impact I can think of is "greedy" basement hook attempts where the killer drops down the stairs while the survivor already has a good chunk of wiggle. Will be interesting to see how the new version works out.
Buff it to 40%, otherwise I am going to need bifocals and a calculator. A necessary change, but most of the good killers have already left I think.
Survivors have been going for No-Hook Runs against me lately. The skill gap increase has been massive the past few days let me tell ya.
Yeah I was also concerned about the stagger, but I honestly don't think it will be changed.
I don't know man, i am not dev. I disliked PTB version. And i am not a fan of the new version either. Still useless and dead perk for me.
Believe me, I have more hours on killer than your killer and survivor combined. If you ever played survivor.
Yeah, sure. I play both roles and people with many hours wouldn't comment things like this...
It's just not true, both sides complain and this nerf is more then deserved!
What about dead man's switch?
Boil Over wasn't changed for balance - it was changed to prevent what amounted to an exploit.
Balance means numbers, which means waiting a while and seeing what those numbers look like.
I feel like the actual fix that needs to happen here is reducing the height that counts for the bonus... I've been using boil over and have gained progress just from the killer walking down some stairs too fast. That seems massively broken.
It doesn't take a genius to see the numbers make it useless.
The other benefits of the perk not doing enough was what made it a bad perk in the first place. Now that the wiggle progress won't do much, I don't see a reason to run it.
33% is too harsh, it should be 50% (at least), that way people won't be able to get a bunch of wiggle progress by running to a drop down to die, but it'll be significant if the killer decides to take a drop down after carrying someone for a while.
That said, the perk didn't need a change after the RPD fix. That's the only map it was problematic on.
didn't expect a good change on that perk, let alone one so soon. fair enough then
It was already a relatively weak perk. Now it'll be useless.
I’m fine with that, the stagger makes me miss a few hooks but I don’t think it’s broken.
i'd rather have a useless perk than an easily abused one. it served no purpose beyond enhancing bad play on both sides.
Any plans for Dead Man’s Switch to get changed or is it just Boil Over?
Any thoughts from the team on the wiggle drag causing console killers to 100% stop moving completely?
Every time I'm confronted with the perk for a hook several seconds are lost due to being forced stationary. It's as if my controller goes dead for every direction.
It's broken due to the fact that you can't properly hit people sabotaging a hook but that requires SWF so
The moment I swerve like a drunk; I know you have the perk. Not seeing an icon will not change that.
No, it doesn't. But it of course has much better chances and coordination in SWF.
Honestly impressed by how fast they changed it.
This is no longer as detrimental for early height drops after picking up survivor, but still can result in clutch grasp escapes.
It's a good change. Hopefully this fixes the issues that Boil Over has.
Agreed. I've been testing it out a bit on survivor and this still causes killers to either have to take the first hook available (it's excellent against PR) or risk losing me. It's so, so strong indoors.
Now if only they were this fast at really balancing the survivor meta we already have
Boil Over was not only a problem on RPD. Just solo queuing and observing my teammates (been playing more survivor than killer this event), I saw 'you can't hook me' situations unfold on Eyrie, Badham, and especially on Disturbed Ward. I saw it on Dead Dawg in the PTB as well.
This is perhaps because the survivor meta is really damn powerful and any perk that successfully breaks into the meta has to be even more powerful to be able to get through that thick layer of cement gatekeeping the ultimate survivor perks? Ergo virtually everything that becomes meta at this point is powerful enough to be concerning?
Boil Over was never going to be meta anyway. If you weren't using it to troll and become unhookable, it was a highly situational perk that wasn't going to make a difference in most of your games. It was 100% bully bait.
The new perk is just useless again. Noone will use it cause its again way too situational. BVHR just shows some ignorance on perk design again.
I'm sorry but I'm confused, what does it mean to have 33% current wiggle progress gained when the killer drops from a height?
Basically, whatever your Wriggle Progress is; take 33% of that, and add it to what you have.
Ngl, that still sounds confusing to me, but I'll have to see it in game. But I do see what you're saying
Sometimes, raw power isn't the major concern.
'How it feels to play against' is also a consideration, as well as 'how can people abuse this to grief'.
I'd love some more variety in the meta, but this was the wrong way to go about it.
Whatever your wiggle bar is at the time of the drop, you get a third of that added immediately. If you have 20% wiggle when you drop, you get 6.67% extra wiggle progress from Boil Over. If you have 60% wiggle when the drop happens, you get 20% bonus wiggle.
Oh I see. Alright not so bad, doesn't seem Op
Let's say This is your wriggle progress:
|>>>>>>______________|
Then the Killer drops from a great height, so 33% of THAT bar would be added onto itself:
|>>>>>>>>>___________|
(The bold is what you get added from the fall)
The amount you get, of course, changes based on how much you wriggled before the fall. (Edit: Of course, the forums deletes the extra spaces)
All this fiasco taught me is that perks based on escaping from the killers grasp are a terrible idea and we probably shouldn't mess with that aspect of the game. I'd personally just say delete the perk and replace it with an entirely new perk named Boil Over. Just like what happened to Tinkerer. It just feels like a design failure of a perk. If it's strong, then it's too strong. If it isn't strong enough, it's useless. I don't see a happy medium with such a perk.
I see, thank you so much. It makes more sense now. I'm more of a Visual learner myself.
I'd slug them anyway unless I'm on outside, good for survivors I guess.
With this nerf I can't really see any time it'll really be useful except when the killer is trying to get you in the basement and drops down. But they can see the Boil Over icon anyway so they will just make sure to not drop down the basement stairs.
So basically, it's really bad now. They should've just removed the wiggle bonus from great heights completely and added a different mechanic.
No problem. I am, as well. :)