I'm so happy people are finally realizing this game is so killer sided
I wonder if the narrative on the forums will ever change from killer's being oppressed. People like Otz and Scott Jund are finally admitting it because there is just so little evidence on the contrary.
EDIT: I realized that I probably made the title a bit misleading. I meant it as more "not as survivor sided as people make it out to be" than straight up killer sided.
Comments
You are missing the context of 'sweat' though.
Or rather, in what context should we mean sweat as he tried killer under different circumstances - which was mean build, nice build and no perks and still managed to sustain positive stats for the killers.
That's literally not true - he pointed out stats for games where he used the 'scummy' builds, builds which were considered 'nice' and even perkless and AFK at the start and still maintained positive stats
He was camping and tunnelling like a madlad. If you're gonna use that as a measuring stick for balance then I guess you get what you deserve lol.
So many us vs them arguments. Threads like these are the reason i’ve been on the forums less.
No, it is straight up killer sided
It is mindblowing how people will look at the actual data and then ignore it anyways in favor of calling this game killer-sided at anything except against complete novices or grossly uneven matchups.
This thread truly has everything that makes this forum ... err ... what it is.
-- People claiming the game is horribly killer-sided.
-- People claiming the game is horribly survivor-sided.
-- People using incomplete data/statistics to justify their points
-- People using outdated or out of context data/statistics to justify their points
-- People using well-known content creators videos out of context (with a cameo by one of those to clarify what they actually said)
-- People using the experiences of one of the best players in the world and claiming that represents the overall experience of the average player (FWIW, no one has posted a link to a different 2 hour long video of that same player, running meta perks in the middle of sweating to do win streaks in a number of those matches -- the title of THAT video is "2 hours of {famous streamer name] getting destroyed", which proves about as much as the other video being referenced in this thread does for some of the claims).
-- People using hyperbole and exaggeration
-- People flat-out making false statements
-- People who can't see there's two reasonable sides of this debate with solid points to be made on each, or that there's two both-important roles for the game to be successful, but instead focus only on their own -- and therefore, those are the same people unwilling to see the forest for the trees.
But at least it's been ... entertaining?
ETA: I forgot to mention that some good points have been brought up in this lengthy discussion, so I don't want to come across as negative. For those people who have made those points, kudos to you.
Mainly cause it's cherry-picked especially for the videos that everyone shows, they don't show things such as the gap between tiers for killers (which otz mentioned in a tweet about balance) and showing how certain tiles and perks make it one-sided as well I am not saying it's wrong but using only their evidence and not acknowledging the other side doesn't help anyone at all
Data is incomplete cause doesn't factor in most things outside of basics such as perks and add-ons
Also since everyone one wants to use scott and otz's videos as an explanation for why its killer sided explain to me this then
- Huge gap between low and S-tier Killers
This was put up by otz 3 day ago as part of a tweet for balancing so explain to me how killer is balanced when certain ones like slinger, legion and twins are at a point where they can easily be removed and disposed of without much resistance
Also using the 2 kill rule and stats that the devs said means nothing cause it doesn't factor in things such as dc, hatch and people flat out giving up (which while yes otz has used in his vids it still happens especially with how rng this game is) along with the fact that people can just hide or use cheap tactics and still win, things like that muddy up the supposed stats and arguments for how its killer sided.
As for Tournaments remember most tournaments have restrictors and limits to what each side can do the one that people keep bringing up from Scott is just that a one-time thing and Scott never said who used what in the context of killer the lowest one he brought up was artist which right now could be considered a high tier killer.
I was not expecting the thread to blow up as much as it did but I'm honestly glad. There were some nice discussions that came out of it but also the typical hate mail that was really fierce this time around.
I think killers/survivors are fairly (not always) balanced in lower to mid-MMR. The real imbalance shows itself for solo queue survivors and killers going up against red rank SWF.
My argument is that people are saying the game is survivor sided even though there isn't data to support it. Yet there is data to support the game being killer sided.
Go rewatch the video he says that after 30 seconds he did whatever he had to to to win,slug camp,tunnel anything to pull the w.
Anyone with more than 500 hours and actually plays both sides knows it’s survivor sided.
Tired of people arguing about which role is more favored. Like who cares??
The argument was that your average group of survivors can be beaten more often than one might think. But if both sides play to their peak performance, survivors will almost always be on top. However the majority of players just aren’t that skilled in the game.
People who want a balanced game?
Everything here is anecdotal, so let me add my own.
I play survivor drunk, I actually worked out a fun drinking game that I'm somewhat afraid to share because I don't want to be blamed when someone gets alcohol poisoning, lol. I'm screaming, jumping, making a right tit of myself and having a fantastic time doing it.
I play killer stone cold sober, trying my best just to make sure I don't leave the game with no kills.
I've been playing video games since consoles had wood paneling, I would say I am at least of average skill in both roles.
It’s not ever gonna be perfectly balanced and people need to learn to accept that. Maybe some of y’all should just design your own game.
I mean yes others are designing games which is why many people are just waiting for those games. I suggest behavior take lessons.
Go watch his overall stat video and you will see that he tried 3 separate methods - not to mention that several streamers are now also participating in a kill-rate challenge.
Again, im pretty sure the video that he did, he presented 3 styles of play - all of which had retained positive rates.
No he did the same thing in all of them, he just used "nice" builds whatever that's supposed to mean
I'd say like basically any 4v1 game the game is killer side only when the survivors are soloq, even then skill and rng come into play.
I thought this was a sluzzy post, i was happy af for a second.
Then yeah.
I know that doesn't change that he and them camped tunneled and slugged for the moment they could move(not counting tru)
I wouldn't say its totally killer sided but most pub matches really are depending on the killers mood and playstyle. If he decides to bring his best possible loadout and then plays like a scumbag, he will surely win. DS isn't on everyone anymore and whenever i play really cheesy as killer, i usually win.
Depends on the killer though, there are surely high differences between the weaker M1-only and the S-tier killers like Blight, Artist and Nurse, but i think most killers can do fine in most pub matches. The new meta (Scourge Hook + Pop + Deadlock + No Way Out) really helps and is defiintely as strong as boon healing totems. I played in a tournament lately and killers there did just fine (it had specific rules though).
Solo is still hell, killers have enough tools and tactics to make profit out of a disorganized team.
You're saying this as if killers aren't restricted as well?
Most killers have their iris and most broken add-ons banned, perks like deadlock (which is currently the strongest slowdown of the game) are banned from top tier killers.
Tournaments have tons of restrictions because ultimately this game is just unbalanced on both sides, and those restrictions aim to reducing them as much as possible
The majority of restrictions are on survivors:
My point isn’t killers aren’t restricted, but the restrictions they have are far fewer in comparison because they need less adjustments for competitive themselves. And several bans for killer are just cause they’re boring to watch or latency reasons, like Enduring/Spirit Fury combo, or Coup de Grace respectively. And obviously, excessive things like Alchemist Ring and other such add-ons are banned as well for balance.
otz was wringed by swfs yesterday he is got used to play against bad survivors and had made wrong conclusions.
This game is 100% survivor sided in HIGH LEVEL.
In your average game where you always met solo player it will always killer sided
In swf high mmr it's survivor sided.
So is that a good reason to make the game almost baby mode for survivors and a sweat fest for killers?
Yes. Otz doing well in solo queue with no perks + 30 seconds afk is proof the game is killer sided.
We will ignore the fact that he plays the game full-time for a living and has done for several years, just as we will ignore his history of setting and achieving against-the-odds challenges. He is clearly representative of the typical killer and as such, we should finally accept that DBD is indeed killer sided.
TDLR: Full-time career player with particularly good skills and a history of setting and achieving against the odds challenges vs randoms on solo queue = killers are OP and survivors are weak.
Otz and Scott saying that killer is fine just means that you need to play this game full-time for a living in order to have a chance as Killer. Not really what you were trying to prove I suspect.
For the game to be killer sided, you just need to play it for several hours most days of the week for several years straight whilst skilling up as if your livelihood depends on it, and then go against a random mix of uncoordinated people getting home from school/work etc.
Easy peasy.
And we really should understand survivors in his vid is nowhere near as best.
No, there should be a different game mode for swf, but there is no ways your average solo game are easier then average killer game.
Yeah solo queue has far too many variables. Mixture of skill levels, mindsets, game-plans etc etc.
Example you can easily get a team with bad survivors and good survivors, two of whom have just got back from work and want to mess about, one person just chilling in a corner half the match and the last person sitting on gens doing nothing else lol.
I don’t see how it proves anything other than, play the game for thousands of hours, be good at games, do well at the game.
Add this to it to since killer is only measured by high mmr and survivor isn't doesn't that mean bully squads at lower mmr should be factored in?
Problem is since swf is a problem with this game no one will want to play against them.
That's not a bad thing though. It means killers are threatening and playing survivor is dangerous and thrilling.
Which is exactly the slasher theme this game is built on.
Everyone complains about camping, tunneling and survivor being m1 simulator... well that's what balance looks like enjoy. 🤮
lol I mean buff killer against swf game mode only..
The killer isn't supposed to automatically win because they are a "killer". There should be balance and fairness so there is an equal chance of winning when all players are playing.
The fact a killer can play actually perkless and win basically non-stop shouldn't be possible. The game is heavily skewed, way too much, in favor of killer.
Yeah. That doesn't exist so it's just like every other part of the rng fetish you have to guess and see if they are a swf or lobby dodge and wait for a few minutes.
No it isn't cause unlike how everyone perceived it it's not "killers" it's "x killer" you're telling me killers like pig and legion can easily beat survivors perkless when their base kit sucks, or twins who are one of the lowest used killers because they suck or they're buggy can perkless people, or slinger who got gutted with no compensation.this game is a jury rigged mess and instead of buffing killer with ######### basekit or a low pickrate they just boosted survivors so they can sell people ######### .
Those killers don't have very bad basekits. If you look at Pig in particular, she is in the top of most deadliest killers.
If i remember right he stopped counting at 503
Riiiiight and it's so hard for survivors since all they should do is surgically attach op perks to their build and the most skilled tactic holding the run button wait it gets even harder they have hold another button to do anything and be still my heart have to press another to do checks yeah survivors are soooooo oppressed that they need to make bully squads and gang up on killers because survivors can't do anything that isn't a one press motion.
Also on a serious note pig does suck and anyone who isn't nurse or blight and it's getting old that the devs cater to survivors more than anything.
Still doesn’t mean that it makes a game balanced. You shouldn’t be entitled to win as killer because you’re “threatening,” you should be entitled to win if you simple played better.