Dead Hard, Buff or Not?
Well, either Dead Hard is getting a big time buff (to how it was before Dedicated Servers) or it's not getting changed at all.
From the Bugfix Patch Notes:
This means Dead Hard will either be stronger than before or nothing will change. What's your bet?
Tagged:
BHVR
Comments
So in other words its the same bullshit as the pallet validation...wow didn't see that one coming. /s
I don't understand why we cant just change dead hard. I feel dead hard should only be a counter to insta down. So if you get hit by an insta down while at full health it just returns the health state once per match. It would be like a metal of man hit once per match you don't have to work for that only works when exposed. Metal of man would work without exposure and we can do away with the whole dead hard I frame BS in general
This didnt' make it server sided, it made it survivor sided. It's another tool for the andys running wifi because they know it messes with hit validation on a killers end. If they were going to buff this and it's now 'working as intended', consider removing the distance gain for Dead Hard. The one thing that really was beyond the perk. If a killer misses he still needs to catchup anyway. Having a cureall perk that gives invulnerability and distance, when it's mainly used for distance, is silly.
Putting aside the unsavory folks that have auto-pallet and auto-dead hard, this basically means they'll never get hit.
Since this was the perfect time for Developers to rework or nerf Dead Hard instead of wasting time fixing it, then you have to assume the Developers have looked at the data and aren't seeing Dead Hard out performing the other exhaustion perks.
Also, you have to consider all the Dead Hard Nerf threads that pop up over and over again on the forums, that the Developers have been scrutinizing Dead Hard with a vengeance.
My guess is Dead Hard is being over-hyped by Killers mains with the constant nerf Dead Hard threads, yet in reality, it's not showing as an issue to the Developers.
Seriously? I'm sorry, but this is just stupid. DH absolutely needed this change. Do you honestly think DH not working and the survivor being exhausted on the ground is fine? It's not.
Yes and no.
In server-based FPS, the same effect still happens as in DbD. The bullet has to be verified by the server as a hit. This process is much simpler though, because most bullets are hitscan. So the server doesn't really have to do many calculations when it compares the locations of the hitbox and bullet. It's harder for projectiles because there's multiple moving target calculations to be made. So they make shot verification easier by making hitboxes bigger. It's why Hanzo's bow fires logs as opposed to arrows.
P2P games like Destiny verify like you're thinking; the shooter is favored. That's why laggers in Destiny can do way better than they should.
DbD's hit validation is actually decently difficult because hitboxes are moving and i-frame calculations have to be made too; if the survivor DHs at the same absolute instant as a Killer swings, the server has to calculate if the survivor was ever invulnerable during the time the hitboxes crossed. But it has to calculate the actual location of where the hitboxes are because what each player sees on their game is not correct according to the server.
It didn't get a buff, lol. It should work like it's supposed to now.
It may work better for the survivors. But on the killer side, they’re getting robbed of downs like pallet hits.
I mean theyre just bringing Dead Hard to its former glory before Dedicated Servers
I thought you liked old things!
I mean, it's not stronger, its more consistent. That's like saying pallets got buffed or nerfed because of hit validation.
There are moments where DH shouldnt have worked, but still did.
There are moments where DH didnt work, but should have.
Hit validation at least makes sure that doesnt ever happen.
They aren't being robbed of anything. The server said ot was not a good hit.
It looks like that because your game assumes it got the hit so it plays the animations and sounds before the server says don't.
If you were getting hits before, and now you're not, that means all of those hits were unfair. Simple as that.
Cool cool cool. Ya gonna give killers anything? Anything at all?
Come on dude you have to admit at least 40% of killer hits are junk, as in it may hit a laggy ghost of where a hitbox was, but onscreen the killer missed. I get hit all the time when I am behind the killer he swings forward and I get hit while standing behind him. Or I jump out a window hit the ground running and the killer swings one story up and I get hit. It is crazy how unprecise hits are. Give survivors a chance, I have suffered under Dead Hard which was nicknamed "Dead for Sure" and "Dead on the Ground" for a reason.
And I do.
But I wouldn't like to see another pallet situation.
And, knowing BHVR, it can somehow happen.
I mean. Have you seen the pallet validation compared to the grab hit validation?
What about it? IIRC the grab is a temporary fix until the devs implement a complete solution.
Wasn't the pallet one also temporary? Yet they are so different in terms of how well they work.
Do you mean it's not enough that hits are still handled on the Killer’s end as they were before? What more do you want? That is the ultimate advantage in any game; your zero-latency client prevails except with DH.
Is that so? Tell it to my predropping pallet stunning enemies.
It's interesting that people consider the dead hard fix not a buff but the surveillance fix a nerf.
The devs stated: The permanent solution: We will rework the way interactions and interrupts work from the ground up with dedicated servers in mind. I think it's only grabs getting reworked and pallets are the final solution.
At this point dead hard is so powerful that you are actively hurting your team by not equipping it.
And pallet stuns are also managed by the servers, but I think to a lesser extent and not entirely. The server still seems to defer to the killer client unless the ping is exceptionally high. Moving to server-based validations is a good thing. I wish the validation threshold were stricter with enforcement.
YAY. Time to hit someone and get robbed of a hit because of stupid validation. Time for survivors to hold dead hard until the last millisecond because they can now. What an annoying game to play and now you are buffing the best perk in the game and making it somehow even more frustrating to play against. Screw playing this game as killer.
Latency cannot be a balancing tool even if one were to entertain the - frankly asinine - argument that it should favour killers. Latency varies wildly between different players and entire regions, and even in a single trial can be inconsistent. Some killer players benefit tremendously from this latency advantage due to having a bad connection or living in certain locations, while others only benefit slightly or not noticably at all, unless the survivor they are playing against happen to have a bad connection or live in certain locations. Furthermore, it is an exploitable advantage due to the possibility of connecting to remote servers via the use of VPNs, as well as that of artificially inducing latency with laghacks, bad WLAN configurations, putting strain on one's connection, and such.
Latency has always and still does favour killers on hits, because hit detection is run on the killer client. That means their perspective is the sole authority, what they see counts. Only for stuns and now Dead Hard the server will decide whether a hit was valid or not. Having the server decide on these things is the most fair solution because it is neutral - the player with the worse connection will be at a disadvantage. Mind you, they will be at much less of a disadvantage than survivors always have been, since only their own latency will work against them, and only by as much as it is higher than that of their opponent, whereas for survivors the total sum of their own plus the the killer's latency works against them on general hits.
Shifting hit authority to the server is not favouring survivors, the actual equivalent to the unfair latency advantage that killers have always enjoyed and still do enjoy for general hits would be shifting the authority to the survivor perspective, i. e. anything that shouldn't hit on the survivor's screen actually wouldn't, even if it only didn't connect on their screen because their own latency is putting the killer further away. Then killers would have to adjust for survivor latencies like survivors currently have to try to adjust for killer latency (and that without even being shown what the killer's latency is). Then people would actually be justified in complaining, it would be completely ridiculous. On the survivor side, players have had to deal with that completely ridiculous one-sided latency disadvantage for years, and still will have to.
Having the server as the neutral authority is the most fair way to do it because it is equally unfair, both roles would have to adjust for their own latency and accept that sometimes their latency screws them over. Alas, again, the killer is still the authority and benefits from all latency on all hits, apart from stun and DH hits.
Now as for actual balancing tools... I do think DH is too strong a perk if one is facing multiple copies of it. I think a good way to combat it and various other problems with the power levels of perks is to limit the amount of times they can be equipped in SWF groups to 1. If only 1 player in a given SWF group can use the perk, it would instantly stop being nearly as problematic because against solo/mixed groups of survivors killers are usually already in a good spot and don't suffer as much from facing things such as multiple DH, and those groups of course do not coordinate their builds to begin with.
It'll feel good to be exhausted on the ground less
Something else is the issue. When I enter matches my ping is 60 or so, but even with your 40 ms ping, it shouldn't mean that I'm missing my hits when I swing and contact the survivor before a pallet is dropped, or dead hard fires. I mean, 20ms difference is such an obscenely small amount of time that it should be negligible from what's viewed in the game, yet more often than not my hits are denied and favor the survivors. Assuming that the servers are doing what we're told they're supposed to.
They also stated: "The temporary solution: Whenever a grab is rejected by the server, the Killer will instead swing their weapon automatically and be granted challenge progress and Bloodpoints as if they had successfully grabbed the Survivor. This way, you won’t lose out on a hit because the grab was cancelled, and you’ll have an easier time completing Archive challenges that require you to interrupt Survivors."
But you don't hit the survivor sometimes.
What about survivors with bad ping? Just had a Mikaela who was always standing still for 2 seconds before her Dead Hard animation played. I still got my hit refunded on her even though I waited the entire 1 second that Dead Hard lasts before hitting. How is it fair that I have to take her lagging around into account when chasing? She had 150ms ping btw, there are even worse out there.
"Latency has always and still does favour killers on hits, because hit detection is run on the killer client."
Didn't they change this to the server's discretion in December/January? The whole point of hit validation was to put that determination on the server.
It's so funny I just resubbed to elder scrolls online and bought 4 expansions!
So when can I expect that Lithe buff since when I've used Lithe I end up exhausted on the ground if I was mid vault and downed?
I'm glad they made sure to time these changes with the Phasmophobia update so I had something else to play!
lol, I'm glad I'm not alone :D
They said they did, but general hit validation definitely isn't a thing. Hit validation's sole job is to overrule invalid hits that have happened due to latency on the killer side, and with stun and Dead Hard validation, we do actually see overruled hits. Outside of that however, overruled hits never happen, even at ridiculously high killer pings. So yeah, general hit validation is either non-functional or non-existent, unfortunately.
So it didn't get stronger?
Apples and oranges lith isn't supposed to give I frames dead hard does
Yeah this is what I was afraid of lol - this has already happened to me multiple times today sigh
Yet another abusable thing for survivors. But that being said, I might try actually using DH again on Survivor - I wonder if it may finally work for me. lol
This hit validation malarkey is certainly suspect and it’s entirely possible that it doesn't work how we’re being told, notably favouring the survivor in most scenarios.
With the pallet roll back, I do find it odd how almost every hit is refunded despite so many variables at play. Sure, I've gotten hits at pallets since that update, but even with all the variables, they're few and far between. That doesn't quite seem right. Logically there would still be a significant number of hits in the killers favour, if things we're working how we've been told. But this is not the case.
I could be wrong ofc but its strange to say the least.
Well of course it does. But I don't see killers messaging me after matches now do I? No it's only ever survivors.
Yeah, not sure; grabs are wonky, so I hope that permanent fix is with the next update.
I know from personal experience that the servers tolerate upwards of 400 ms ping. Killer players have become so accustomed to every hit prevailing that when a pallet or DH validates, they complain about being "denied" a hit.
Not really, no. It didn't receive a buff.
So it wouldn't matter if this was reverted.
I know that it's not a literal buff. But it works way better now, which is why I call it a buff honestly
The perk works now and you shouldn't end up on the ground exhausted as often. I don't know what you're getting at here. It is not stronger and has not received any buffs. It just works like it's suppose to now, that's it.
U cant bait a DH for distance
With this mentality I could say: I hope that BHVR never fixes PS4 issues, because for me (PC killer main) it would mean that they buff PS4 survivors and this game is already survivor sided.
Forgive me, but this is stupid. Before changes I could lunge into DH and hit survivor because he mistimed it and i knew lunge after DH animation beats it. Now it doesn't matter what i do, survivor gets away cause it works as pallet hit validation. Game always chooses survivor. Nah, thx for game but it's enough for me. Good luck!
Where is the buff? When will be on live version? Is this a joke? I got 1 dead hard out of 4. There is nothing added or fixed, just same ######### as we always get, fixed on paper not in game.
Okay? I never said you could. Baiting out DH isn't even discussed in that post...?
Effectwise this could be considered a buff. Consistency wise I was wondering when this would happen and I am glad they did this.
Now, I do not like Dead Hard. But not because the perk is so strong, rather I dislike it because I see it too often. I wish I could see more different perks and get supriced a bit in the end screen and not see Dead Hard and Iron Will on 3/4 survivors.
However Dead Hard should work as intented. Lantency issues are not something that should "balance" a perk, they are issues and should be solved. BHVR did this right now and this is a step in the right direction. As much as I dislike survivors overusing this perk and forcing me to bait it every time they should get a working perk and not a hot mess.
Of course this is a buff by effect. Dead Hard now does the thing it is supposed to do more efficiently.
Killers now have to deal with the confusion situation where they hit a survivor that screams but does not get injured or goes down. This is another problem in itself because now Dead Hard will add to confusion happening on the Killers side. When this happened at a pallet there was no problem as the Killer got stunned either way and had to deal with the pallet. Dead Hard now creates an issue by showing the Killer a confirmed hit that never happend however unlike at the pallet the Killer should still be moving.
As an example: Imagin I play Hillbilly. I chainsaw into a direction and the injured survivor uses Dead Hard. I get the hit confirmation sound and stopp my power (because I would stop either way). Now I lose distance and have to rev up my chainsaw again probably missing on a down because of the added confusion.