why do killers hate dead hard?
I'm a survivor main and run dead hard purely to avoid getting downed during a chase. A lot of killers seem to think this is a strong perk, when I'd say it's a very half and half type of perk. Half of the time, it'll benefit me and the other half, I'm exhausted on the ground, dead hard a bit too early, or dead hard but get downed bc I'm in a dead zone. It's also an exhaustion perk, so I'll only be able to use it once during a chase (unless I happen to quickly get my exhaustion back). So if anything, I feel like it's very balanced and countered. Don't get me wrong through, I can see how you go for a hit and miss bc of dead hard, but I don't think it's enough to "get rid of it" especially bc killers are faster than survivors.. Is that not fair enough??
Comments
"I'm a survivor main and run dead hard purely to avoid getting downed during a chase."
you already answer your own question with the very first sentence, if you get exhausted on the ground while using dead hard that means you don't use it to make distance but instead tried to use it to dodge an attack which is not the correct way to use it anymore.
chases should be skill-based but then you got perks like this that say "press E to cover up your mistake lmao ez win"
I'm sure you've already heard this argument but when used correctly DH can be not only un-counterable but can extend a chase for awhile.
Ignoring the bear traps one is ridiculous. Immediate trapper buff right there. I don't dislike dead hard for any other reason.
Because its considered a pain in the backside for killers and the one thing they can't counter for lol
Oh this is an interesting point! Spirit is one of those killers that I'm like "yeah I couldn't do anything about that" when downed so I feel like this is very valid! Now I know where dead hard can be annoying since there are some ways where dead hard can be abused, but other that that I feel like dead hard is an all around okay perk!
Oh hmm I see your point! I think you're forgetting that it is an exhaustion perk meant to dodge a hit... so by "unearned" I see your side, but I wouldn't say completely unearned (if that makes sense)?
Also, here's what I think about perks– I think they're very useful for whatever they're meant to do, but I don't think it should ever be the reason why you escape/get kills. I only consider killers/survivors good and strategic if they don't rely on perks to win.
If I also may ask, what's your take on other second chance perks (like bt, ds, etc.)?? I'm curious about what you think about them.
I'm a bit confused with what you said. Are you saying that the correct way to use dead hard is to abuse it? Because the only reason dead hard exists is to dodge a hit, which is what I do.
This is what I thought! But after learning more about how it's used, killers fear dh bc it's a perk that can be used at your own time rather than sprint burst being an perk that automatically activates once you run.
There just mad how they get out played by these people are complaning about Dustin's🤣.
If that's there only excuse for dead hard then they should be complaining about sprint burst because that's distance.
Killers just get salty because you know whan to use dead hard and they could of bated you to do it early. Ya the perks pridy balanced.
Can't believe you killers are complaining when you got over 5 perks that give one shot to keep them from using dead hard.this is so sad
Well said all keep that in mind going against you 🤓
you cant dodge hit with it anymore. It worked with old movement and peer2peer but it's much more inconsistent and "buggy" on dedicated + animations.
Its should be used to create distance instead or as you said "abuse it"
Used out in the open it isn't an issue (or when it just doesn't work at all, obv) it isn't an issue, but DHing to get to a pallet or window can be pretty frustrating, and feels like a mistake eraser a lot of the time, and like all survivor perks there can be up to four of them in one match, and 4x DH when they're functioning and being used properly is just...ugh
Apart from dedicated hits, if there was actually a killer perk which meant that after missing a basic attack you could press a different button and the survivor would get injured anyway, it would understandably cause frustration on the survivor side.
Being prohibited to complain because of some potential is not really a valid argument. I Play spirit only when I get a daily or rift challenge for her and otherwise avoid using both her and freddy thanks to their stigmas.
So do I have the right to complain? Or am I included because I could potentially use them? If yes, then one could make the argument that absolutely no survivor should complain because they ALL have the potential to play in a coordinated swf with coms to play at maximum efficiency.
Like I said using potentials as arguments is pretty pointless.
Maybe because it is the one available on demand? Lithe needs a vault, balanced landing a drop-down and sprint burst needs the survivor to walk until needed and is way easier baited simply by walking up to them.
The janky aspect is only applicable on dodges of either hits and/or killer powers and yes that aspect is not complain worthy. The point most people hate is when a survivor that is only a lunge distance of ahead of the killer in a chase and simply has to press a button on demand to make it safely to a pallet. Their is simply nothing the killer can do without a ranged attack and resetting a chase with only this much effort is annoying and frustrating.
And yes I know killer have bloodlust. But that is neither active on demand and it gets cancelled on every pallet break.
It doesn't have anything to do with whether the Killer is new or not. Dead Hard gets complained about because it comes into play at the point where the Killer otherwise would have gotten a down. Most Killers run a lot of perks that activate on hook or on down, so getting robbed of a down even temporarily hurts a lot more than you might think. Double that if a good Dead Hard happens during the first chase of the game. That makes it the most frustrating of all of the Exhaustion perks.
Just take a minute to compare that... where you lose a down when you've already invested 30+ seconds in getting it to the following...
Sprint Burst gets used at the very start of chase 99% of the time. Meaning the Killer can be like "Well off they go, I'm just gonna ignore that." and not lose much time to it.
Lithe usually comes out early too, so a similar thing can happen.
Balanced Landing has more flexibility of when it gets activated compared to Sprint Burst or Lithe out but is much rarer and requires a drop.
Head On can come out whenever but is incredibly difficult to use mid chase and can be baited out.
Dead Hard is to killers what Spirit is to survivors; something that makes skill completely irrelevant and countering is mostly just the other side screwing up.
Imagine you're in a chase against a survivor. They've looped you tightly and you need to secure a down to deliver a Pop to a gen in time. You finally got them with a mind game, they double back to a pallet/window and... Dead Hard. You outplayed a survivor and then they used a perk to make any and all your plays irrelevant.
Then you have Nurse or Blight who get punished for missing, and unlike most killers, can't afford to wait/bait out the DH. Not to mention, it's a subtle perk, so the killer has 0 warning that you have it outside of making an educated guess or seeing you use it.
The "exhausted on the ground" argument is a problem with dedicated servers, not some built-in limitation of the perk. It'd be like saying Nurse is a subpar killer because her blinks randomly break.
sprint burst can be 99d
I don't think Dead Hard, or just exhaustion perks in general in their current state, will ever be nice to deal with - they all give the survivor distance for free. But Dead Hard is the biggest offender by far due to it's insane utility and core design concept.
It is a perk to nullify a killers good play and/or a survivors mistake. That is its core design. I'm not sure if there's a way to make it less unpleasant without nerfing it to the ground.
no matter how good I'm playing all the survivor has to do is click E to outplay me.
Can't counter distence... unless you're playing Huntress or Deathslinger or Trickster Or maybe Executioner.
Hmm interesting. I think you're right, but I choose to only dodge hits using dh but it's hard to get the timing right sometimes.
THIS!! Very well explained. Thank you!!
Oh for sure, but it's hard to do 99 your sprint burst mid chase especially after you used it at first if that makes sense?
Because some fail to understand how perks work. So rather than adapting they would rather call it unfair.
I was long time sprint burst user for years until i switched to dead hard and boy it's definitely the strongest exhaustion perk by far. It allows you to play way more riskier and therefore you can extend chases and save high value pallets. But i don't know if it should be nerfed. Deadhard would be hard to nerf without making it useless. The only issue with dead hard is that requirement for it to work are nonexistent. If you look other exhaustion perks there are reguirements, you need to find window with lithe, sprint burst you need to walk everywhere or risk wasting it before chase even begins
No problem. I almost always run setups that are less dependent on downs so I personally don't hate Dead Hard as much as some. Honestly I'd rather get 4 Dead Hards than 4 Sprint Bursts.
I'm tired of rehashing this argument, so I'm just going to say that I'm a killer main who loves Dead Hard.
It's not OP. It's not "undo a mistake". It's not "pReSs E tO oUtPlAY" (by far the most cringe statement in these forums). It's just a really good perk that creates some exciting moments of gameplay.
I've got over 6000 hours in this game. I didn't "forget" anything.
And yes, it is completely unearned. You literally had to be injured to use it. Once injured, it was given to you for no other reason than...you got injured.
Much like NOED, it's a reward for playing badly. You should have to atone for your mistakes, and get better at the video game. Not have a perk to save you.
Interesting... I don't see what hours have to do with what I said but I completely respect your opinion.
I would also like to agree to disagree with what you said about dh being completely unearned and having to atone our mistakes to use other second chance perks (other than dh).
Thank you for your responses though! I like seeing what other people think!
Why do survivors hate ruin?
Im a killer main and run ruin purely to stop being genrushed during a short chase. A lot of survivors seem to think this is a strong perk, when id say its a very half and half type of perk. Half of the time, itll benefit me and the other half, it will get destroyed in the very first seconds of the match. Its also a hex perk, so it can also be destroyed and cancelled by survivors. Dont get me wrong though, i can see how you wanted to repair that gen that got regressed but i dont think its enough to "stop it" especially bc survivors can keep tapping the gen. Is that not fair enough??
See what i did there? Can do the same with more perks.
@xEzekanarioX See, I don't hate ruin though. I 100% understand that ruin's a hex and can very easily be destroyed when the totem is found. Same with other killer perks. Yeah, ruin can be annoying but it's not to the point I single out that one killer perk and deeply complain about it.
I just never understood the why killers hated dead hard more than other exhaustion perks, but now I do thanks to the other comments! :)
It feels bad. It feels like you're having the rug pulled out from under you.
Yeah my ruin example was just what it is, an example. Dont mind it.
Feel free to do more posts about asking to killers stuff, but you can always play killer yourself and find your answers.
Once you play any m1 killer you will say: oh, its because of that.
No, my bad!! Thanks for the example! :)
I play killer here and there but I never really stick to it since I don't enjoy playing as much as survivor! But once in a while, I push myself to play killer to remind myself and learn more about how killers feel and see things!!
I'm sorry, what? Is there something in any of that that made sense? Do you think killers just play Spirit all the time? Do you think most killers even think Spirit is fair?
One steaming pile of shite does not justify another. That mentality makes no sense.
Because it's one of half a million second chances that survivors get so they can't be punished for mistakes.
Trickster and Pyramid cannot deal with distances.
Dead Hard also has the issue of avoiding a couple of killer powers, like Trapper's traps and Deathslinger's gun, of course they need to be timed but the simple fact that a perk can counter a killer's power without issue is just absurd
I don't really get the appeal, I play survivor more than killer but I find myself wanting Lithe or spribtburst over dh. I find that I can use the distance to escape from the killer with those perks but with dh I can extend the chase a little longer.
As the killer I find that i always chase the survivors til I'm close enough to hit them the second time without then lunge unless the survivor is heading for a vault. Usually this means dh extends my chase by a second. If they dodge my hit a couple seconds more.
Because it's a good perk
All these people saying it's a 'third health state' are wrong. It's a dodge...nothing more nothing less. They aren't healed or deep wounded (an actual third health state) when they use it. It's only as devastating as you make it, if you decide to chase someone for more than a minute that's on YOU. Dead Hard is not that much of an issue, lazy Killers just want an easy game even though they move faster and have a built in speed boost called Bloodlust.
No, I know that not all killer mains don't play Spirit or even think she's fair. But my point is that people complain about things they think are wrong on the opposite side, when they almost have the thing on their side. I think Dead Harding for distance is a bit of a dirty thing to do, but I only wanted to compare DH with something unfair from the killer's side, because many of them says that DH for distance is uncounterable and unfair.
I'm sorry if my argument didn't make any sense or if it was confusing. I might have accidentally made it sound that all killer mains played Spirit, and I'm sorry about that too.
How can you abuse DH 😂 that's literally the same as abusing Lithe. Like if I'm being chased most of the match bet yall ass I'm using lithe thorough a window! He's right, dead hard isn't really working dodging. Tired that with the huntress and still had a hatchet to my nut! So I see man's point here.
hate threads like this, the answer is obvious, you are just wasting time and this is borderline bait that so many have fallen for it seems
This term "The Killer" like.. There are many people just playing the game and switching between both roles.
I can tell you that it feels really bad if you >>outplay<< your opponent but he just uses DH and survives bc of the extra distance.
Then you won't down them, means no hook/or slug, means no pressure, means people do gens, means you're losing. And why? Not bc you got juked, or bc you played bad. It's bc they pressed E every single time in every single chase and every time your hit got denied.
Yea other exhaustions do the same, in a different way. But DH feels especially bad.
But I'm always sayin: unless bloodlust (tier 1 mainly) is a thing that gives Killer the little extra distance and little extra speed(and therefore range) during the lunge I don't mind it.
Once BL is gone, some exhaustion perks needs to get changed. There is no other way around it.
You are awesome, keep going like that!
You make an extremely valid point! I didn't think of it that way, but I agree. I think it's just a perk that's annoying to killers since it's time consuming, but I don't think it's that bad to the point where they should get rid of it. Sure, I think it can be nerfed a tiny bit so that dead hard can't dodge bear traps, but other than that, it's a perk to help survivors (like with any other perks)!
Well I'm fairly new to the game so I'm still learning tons about it. I genuinely had no idea why dead hard was that annoying to killers since I only ever used it to dodge hits instead of using it for distance or to avoid bear traps. Because of the comments, I'm learning and understanding why dead hard can be an annoying perk. I can't say I'm sorry that my genuine curiosity bothers you since you seem to have felt the need to look through this thread knowing you don't like these types of questions. :)