Are we going to keep ignoring that face camping and hard tunneling are a giant problem
Literally in the first game I play today I get face camped and after that I played 4 more games in 2 of them someone got fact camped and in a 3rd someone got hard tunneled the entire game. So out of 5 games only one was even remotely enjoyable because that killer actually patrolled gens and put pressure on all of us so we had to actually play smart. That game ended with 3 of us dying and one escaping. The other games were 3 of us escaping and 1 person dying with most of us never even seeing the killer or getting into a chase screwing our emblems because the killer wanted to hard tunnel and face camp one person. Something needs to be done about this.
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Rank means nothing in this game so dont play seriously for rank. Dying in this game is always an option and if people dont like that well then idk what to tell them, survivors aren't entitled to escape.
Ever since the ds nerf we have seen a high increase of tunneling and camping so i have a feeling it is because of it not sure🤔
I play both side so I need to say this
don't complain about genrush or stop camping and tunneling the first survivor you see
don't complain about camping and tunnel or stop genrushing get chased look in chest or do totems
see what I did there.🤣
Asking the wind to stop blowing
doesn't happen every game though. and if you don't like face campers take your as* down to the discord kyf and SWF channels so you can consistently chat and have fun.
Tunneling hasn't changed I literally spent the day before yesterday playing survivor around rank 2. Not once did I see tunneling. No one takes this tunneling bull seriously because you people exaggerated it (how the hell is it tunneling if I have 4 stacks at the point I death hook you ridiculous). Its like whining about gen rush. It not the survivors job to prolong the game just so the killer gets a better chance just like its not the killers job to ensure a survivor gets a fair chance post unhook. The owness is on you as a survivor to give the unhooked that chance soak aggro hide their tracks with your own. If a killer facecamps he will lose points and open every gen on the map to be freely pushed. The only difference now is you can't call tunnel after losing ds because you were contributing to the main objective instead of seeking out healing or avoiding the killer post 60 seconds of unhooking. Also how does saying we need to deal with this even help put a suggestion forward. Come up with a solution that encourages a killer to spread out there hooks.
Every time you say rank means nothing your basically saying any matchmaking system that factors rank at all is a terrible idea and the rank 15 should be thrown against reds regardless. Its awful for judging the high tier players definitely but yellows should be separated from red ranks players.
Get yourself a good team of 4, or just play killer. Never play solo survivor. That’s the best advice I can give you.
the only way the devs are going to do anythign about it so for you and others to simply stop playing the game, but you wont so nothing will change.
I'm a rank 3 solo survivor and most of my matches 2 or 3 gens go before the first hook.
Survivors completing 60% of their objective while the killer completed 8% IS an issue.
Killers feel cornered and will do everything to try a comeback or at least get a kill.
Idk, there's a ton right and a ton wrong with facecamping...
Right: It's a good strategy for newbies or struggling killers, forces them to either grow up into better strats or lose the other 3 survivors, it allows for player agency to not have official rulings against it
Wrong: it sucks for the survivor, and if the survivor suicides it reinforces bad behavior, and it feels like bullying despite being a tactic
Most have learned to deal with it, as a game should -- games and it's players should shape the meta. That's why people talk so much about BT or DS or Kindred, mainstay perks in the chance that the killer poses that kind of a threat.
I feel bad for facecamp victims but it is what it is, especially if BHVR takes the stance that it's valid.
This is why most of the time I'm in a chat with survivors. Makes the game more fun and things so much easier.
Those saying "get good or dont get caught first" hardly that simple. Also that's pretty much justifying that it's okay to prevent other survivors to give the hooked one a chance to play the match more than 30 seconds.
I completely agree with you this is wrong on so many levels and is a massive pain in the arse, but the devs don't find anything wrong with it. If killers want their BP they'll stop at nothing to basically take the game hostage. Also you can't win against this because most who play killer main will just bring out the "camping gen or gen rushing " card. Quite literally don't understand that who gen rush considering it takes 80-90 seconds to fix one. And for that I don't think it could be any slower if it tried. 2 minutes for a survivor to die roughly.
If I get a solid teabag on the hook, I kill myself it's that simple. And this is half way people rage quit. Because they literally are up against a solid teabagger. Dont stress yourself out, I know it's a pain but if you get yourself a teabaggee then just #########. And hope that the last gen goes bang in his face and they all get out. That's what I do. Have fun and stay stress free buddy.
Are we going to keep ignoring that survivors doing their objective is a giant problem?
It would seem so. The game has been like this for a long time regardless of DS, because there is no punishment for playing this way and DS never really countered tunneling. No conditions under which the timer pauses or at the very least slows down and the ability to wait it out while only getting a measly 5 second stun meant that the only way to get any real use out of DS was to waste the killer's time with it, being an obnoxious ass, so many people did this. Now that it can't even function for that, tunnelling is worse than before, go figure.
Have you played killer? You'll suddenly understand hard why anyone would facecamp.
The problem is the game itself. It needs a complete rebalance, otherwise-
A. These things will continue as it's the only effective way to get anything done
B. The fact that it is possible to do these things will ensure it's continuation
Once you've played killer enough you'll understand survivors have many in game mechanics that can stop killers. The power of body blocking and forcing protection hits literally renders killers powerless.
If i understand this right you don't play killer, do you? You can hit the killer with palettes, use breakout out of lockers, flashlight save/blind and good old decisive strike, which everybody uses, so in actual fact there are a ton of way to "hit" the killer back and once survivors get to purple ranks, believe, they are pretty good at it.
Just because the game has been like this for a while doesn't mean there is a problem. Decisive Strike was in the game for a while and it was a problem for years.
***Camping is a problem because it allows one player to completely stop another player from being able to play the game. A solo player has absolutely nothing they can do against camping.
One of the ways you could fix camping is to stop hook progress if the killer is not in a chase and is within 32 meters of the hook, this would be disabled during end game collapse. This would keep survivors from abusing this and it would force killers to find other survivors instead of standing in front of a survivor all match.
This fix would be good for survivors for obvious reasons and it would actually be good for killers because it would encourage them to stop using camping as a crutch to prop up bad game play.
Yes I do play killer and I know that if I tunnel someone there’s literally nothing they can do about it
DS is still in the game. If you refuse to take the anti-tunneling perk after it's nerf...Were you just abusing it? 🤔
I have never used ds at all as I just don’t like the perk tbh. The issue with that is even if you have ds the killer can still tunnel you out of the game as ds will only buy you a few seconds and not actually allow you to escape a chase with the killer
DS only buys you "A few seconds" if you literally just stand there after stunning the Killer.
DS buys you at least 40 secs if you just run in a straight line. More if you actually run to a pallet or loop.
As people have said, tunneling and getting someone out of the game as soon as possible is the Killer's best option.
If you find tunneling unbearable, but refuse to take DS...What do you want? Killer's to modify their play to suit your tastes?
Because it's not an immunity perk. DS doesn't make you immune to tunneling. The rest of it is on you to waste the tunneling killer's time before and after the DS.
this is an elimination game technically you're dead on first hook its up to your team to help you
For me if I camp it’s usually an issue with the maps. Some maps like Badham are too strong against a lot of killers.
Like if I have a survivor hooked in an open area I feel like the best play is for me to camp there and draw the survivors to that area, rather than chase one of them or seek them out which will lead me to the school or the house of pain - huge time wasting areas.
Likewise for meat plant where every chase is just dropping god pallets.
Some maps are so bad that its a better play to camp and draw the survivors to you than it is to chase.
Boohoo, so sick of these threads -_-
Oh, sure.
And something also needs to be done about T-bagging, body blocking, abusing loops, survivors waiting at the exit gate just so the killer can watch them leave...
See how entitled this sounds? This is what you're doing now.
Camping and tunneling are strategies. Not every killer (player) will use it right, and not every killer (character) has enough map pressure to be on gens all the time.
Do you even play killer? Like, when a survivor is on death hook, injured and the easiest target, why would the killer go for anyone else? When all the gens are done and there is one survivor on the hook, why would you go to the exit gates if you know there will be someone coming to rescue them while the gates are already 99%? This makes no sense. You're just putting the responsibility of your fun on other player who's also trying to have fun. This is entitlement. And it's ridiculous. Let them play how they want, because I am 100% sure that you're playing how you want and you're just mad because things aren't going your way.
At least someone finally admitted it.
He doesn't want a perk that will help you get away from being tunneled, he wants something to give out complete immunity at the push if a button. It's not going to happen.
Do you know this is a killer forum? So no, it's not a problem. But gen tapping yes, of course, it's a massive problem for killers
You keep suggesting this, and never reply when people point out that 32 meters is 1/4th of the map on some maps. It's way too large an area. If you want to encourage slugging, this will do it, because if my choices are hooking someone and denying myself 1/4th of the map, or slugging them and keeping watch on the slug until they bleed out, it's option b every time. And that's coming from someone who doesn't even slug to find the hatch, I never let Survivors bleed out unless I can't find them, but I sure would the moment this change was implemented.
Do you know it really isn't? I mean, I understand it's easier to pretend everyone who disagrees with you is just biased, but the data doesn't bear it out.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/239138/how-many-of-you-play-both-sides#latest
Saying the killer facecamping or tunneling is a problem requires you to essentially dehumanize the killer player and imagine them as a 'fun dispenser,' at least if you then go on to suggest negative reinforcement to 'fix' facecamping.
There are lots of ways to make facecamping and tunneling less necessary to the killer experience, but ultimately the way chase math works, it is literally required for the killer to try to snowball on the survivor team in SOME way, and getting multiple downs near a hook or eliminating a player early are both good ways to do that. To win a game going for 12 hooks vs a team that just holds W to run away and full heals after every unhook, without even trying to loop, would require each gen to take an average of 12 minutes.
So it isn't even really that gen times are a problem, buffing gens to the point killers can win with minimum low optimization chase times and no snowballing would require nerfing gen repair a truly insane amount. Its more that killers don't get any real reward for NOT camping or tunneling, and they aren't powerful enough in basekit to try to win without snowballing at all.
More critically, snowballing is important to the emotive experience for survivor. Back in the day BT was broken and hook rescues were always free, the survivor community actually hated the game because it was "m1 gen simulator." There was nothing really in the game to do because you got unhooks way too easily. Now that trying to unhook risks a killer snowball the game is more interesting for both sides. So that one person on the hook is creating a very interesting experience for 4 other people, the killer and the 3 other survivors.
Games are not designed to let every single person playing them have fun and feel empowered at all time. That is an incoherent design goal. You NEED some gamestates to feel bad. Killers need highpoints where they have an absurd amount of power on you, and survivors need lowpoints where they have no power and are at high risk to be subject to player elimination, a totally normal mechanic a ton of games have. Demonizing killers for 'not letting someone play' is like demonizing someone for shooting someone else in CS:GO and taking them out of the round. You don't 'get to play' most competitive games if you refuse to play them well.
Of course that doesn't mean that nothing can be improved. For example, mashing spacebar (or holding a key or mouse button to heal on the ground, for that matter) are really dumb mechanics that just make being temporarily incapacitated annoying. The first hook is actually a really good design, its a moment of downtime where the survivor can collect their thoughts, cool off, make a plan. The second one is just really annoying and if the killer is camping it just feels awful. Spacebar mashing serves no real purpose besides making the game feel worse, so that definitely should go.
But ultimately you can't address camping without giving killers some massive buff to give them a reward for not defending the hook at all, after all tempo wise killers literally lose time hooking you compared to just slugging, so if you wanted to disincentivize camping you would have to do some pretty wild stuff to make it better. If you just nerfed it more, killers will slug instead of hook which is even WORSE. And this is exactly what happened when BHVR tested anti-camping mechanics internally, and when BT was so strong. If BHVR's internal testing finds a mechanic is abusable, its ABUSABLE.
The way hooks are designed makes it really clear defensive play around them is intended, if it wasn't, all hooks would be like pyramid head's cages and just teleport the survivor to some random part of the map and require someone to unhook.
So me saying rank means nothing is not to belittle players or that new players need to go against veterans. If i am a red rank killer or survivor on pc and then i play on a fresh account on ps4 my rank doesn't reflect anything about my experience. Someone could be red rank for months and then not play at all for a few months and be demoted a couple ranks, that's still rank not reflecting their experience.
Camping stops a player from playing 1 match, survivors can just load into another without much problem. A solo player can't do anything about camping but this game isn't a solo game, its a team game so expect teammates to help you. Camping isn't a crutch, its a part of the game, there are many instances where its the right call to make and to always label it as toxic is a bit dumb.
I just got tunnelled by a Spirit - literally no other team mates were hooked at all, got exit doors open and she camped me on last hook. Got unhooked with BT and she still went after me then left me slugged while dancing around the exit until she picked me up and last hooked me.
Why? Just would like to know.
I submit reports all the time about this and am convinced no one read them. So it is probably just for my own peace of mind. But yea, Camping and Tunneling are a real problem in this game. There should be real consequences to a killer who insists on ruining people's games with these cheap and lazy tactics. I think BT should be base kit for all survivors to discourage tunnels. I find camping to be a problem to a slightly lesser degree because this at least has some counter to it in the form of doing gens and objectives while the killer dinks around with one person on a hook. It is sad for the person who didn't get to play and depipped because the killer decided he didn't really want to bother playing and would rather stand next to the hooked guy. EDIT: I saw this post this morning, this afternoon, my very first match I was face camped on my 1st hook. The team did 4 gens while I was hanging there. So I got screwed but they all lived and the killer got a 6k. I thought it was funny since I was just thinking this AM that I don't see real blatant face camping very often.
Reporting someone for camping or tunneling is abuse of the report system, as they are explicitly allowed.
So you repeatedly report people for behavior the mods and devs have repeatedly stated isn't reportable behavior? Why do you want to waste the time of the employees of BHVR?
I do the same thing because these strategies are insanely toxic and unfun and deserve to be removed. Maybe if the devs see all these people being reported for this they will actually do something about tunneling and camping
How are they toxic when its just the killer playing the game? When survivors play the game its no problem at all but for killers to do the same its inherently bad.
Survivors are not forcibly taking the killer out of the game with 0 counterplay. Not to mention camping and tunneling screw the game over for 4 people since the three people that escaped probably won’t pip up and most likley will pip down since the killer won’t interact with them causing their emblems to get screwed
Yeah survivors aren't taking the killer out of the game because that isn't their job! Taking one survivor out of the game makes the killers game easier and their end goal is to take every survivor out of the game. Survivors goal is to escape the trial so me getting you out of the trial isn't a problem....Survivors have counter-play to stop killers from tunneling and camping, stop acting like they don't.
Lol. Do you really think this forum is not killer sided? Review the comments and votes and you'll see it's probably 1/10 survs and 9/10 killers or higher.
The issue is not so much the killer forcibly taking a survivor out of the game, it’s the fact that all 4 survivors get their ranks and pips screwed over because the killer doesn’t want to interact with any of the except the guy he is camping/tunneling. Camping and tunneling would probably not be cared about nearly as much if the ranking/pip system was reworked but the devs don’t want to see to do that either.
They are far more likely to punish the person making all the false reports, but that's on you.
I mean, if you define a killer main as anyone who disagrees with your opinion, then yeah, it will look a lot higher. If you go by the very large amount of people who play both sides however, a different picture emerges.
They literally are doing that though, reworking the pip/rank system is part of the sbmmr changes. It's been mentioned several times by devs and mods.
If survivors only do gens and leave then they're choosing not to interact with the killer but if you are truly worried about your emblems and rank then you can take the time to run to where the hooked survivor is and try to bait the killer away or make the save. If all 3 other survivors come and do that then they can make the save and give the camped survivor a chance to play.
yesterday one person, probably a surv ask for don't remove DS if you tap a gen, and he received a lot of complaints and negative comments. And you have comments asking for nerfing press W or nerfing tapping, and they all are so well welcome. Today someone ask for a 5th perk slot giving survs a totem counter. If you don't think this is a killer forum I don't know what to say. This is a 90-99% killers forum
So your evidence is that people don't agree with opinions you do. You have no real data, you've just decided everyone who disagrees with you is a killer main. I disagreed with both of those suggestions, so I must be a killer main, right? But I also disagreed with giving killers a 5th perk slot to deal with swf, and disagreed with removing Dead Hard so by your logic that must make me a survivor main... Oh no, logic fail.
In the case of asking for being able to tap gens with DS, what's to stop a person from gen tapping till the gen is done? There is no reason to tap a gen and also be worried about being tunneled, if you are competent enough to progress the game then you don't get to reap the benefits. There is no reason to have a totem counter if you're running small game, you are alerted every 10s if you're looking at a totem so if you go around the map you can count how many times small game goes off. Even if that wasn't enough its not like the remnants of totems just disappear i believe you can see a pile of bones on the ground and just subtract that from 5.