theOnetoo
theOnetoo
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@Fiona_Goode said:
Oh, sure.
And something also needs to be done about T-bagging, body blocking, abusing loops, survivors waiting at the exit gate just so the killer can watch them leave...
See how entitled this sounds? This is what you're doing now.
Camping and tunneling are strategies. Not every killer (player) will use it right, and not every killer (character) has enough map pressure to be on gens all the time.
Do you even play killer? Like, when a survivor is on death hook, injured and the easiest target, why would the killer go for anyone else? When all the gens are done and there is one survivor on the hook, why would you go to the exit gates if you know there will be someone coming to rescue them while the gates are already 99%? This makes no sense. You're just putting the responsibility of your fun on other player who's also trying to have fun. This is entitlement. And it's ridiculous. Let them play how they want, because I am 100% sure that you're playing how you want and you're just mad because things aren't going your way.
Thing is thoooooo, can something be done about the things you listed 😭😂 when you get to that point of killer where everyone understands the power of bodyblocking you realise how weak Legion truly is and it's horrible. There are literally so many no win situations especially around exit gates end game. It's not a matter of skill but simple mechanics. I also don't understand why killer has to have speed penalties after hits and survivors get speed boosts? One or the other jheeez and you're standing there as Legion like if I use my power right now I can't actually kill anyone and they are all going to zoom through the exit gate. Fun. What a cool power.
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@Mugombo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2071647#Comment_2071647
Yes I do play killer and I know that if I tunnel someone there’s literally nothing they can do about it
Also, what? Just read this properly like lol you don't play killer, that much is obvious 😂 any good swf understands exactly how to unhook someone at just the right angle so you don't get the grab or as you grab they unhook the other, they'll flashlight/BT/DS the f**k outta there and that's that. Sorry a bunch of idiots play solo survivor, I have seen it but the swf experience is a whole other level.
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@Exerath1992 said:
Boohoo, so sick of these threads -_-
You wanna help make the game better then or just keep making pointless statements
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@dezzmont said:
Saying the killer facecamping or tunneling is a problem requires you to essentially dehumanize the killer player and imagine them as a 'fun dispenser,' at least if you then go on to suggest negative reinforcement to 'fix' facecamping.
There are lots of ways to make facecamping and tunneling less necessary to the killer experience, but ultimately the way chase math works, it is literally required for the killer to try to snowball on the survivor team in SOME way, and getting multiple downs near a hook or eliminating a player early are both good ways to do that. To win a game going for 12 hooks vs a team that just holds W to run away and full heals after every unhook, without even trying to loop, would require each gen to take an average of 12 minutes.
So it isn't even really that gen times are a problem, buffing gens to the point killers can win with minimum low optimization chase times and no snowballing would require nerfing gen repair a truly insane amount. Its more that killers don't get any real reward for NOT camping or tunneling, and they aren't powerful enough in basekit to try to win without snowballing at all.
More critically, snowballing is important to the emotive experience for survivor. Back in the day BT was broken and hook rescues were always free, the survivor community actually hated the game because it was "m1 gen simulator." There was nothing really in the game to do because you got unhooks way too easily. Now that trying to unhook risks a killer snowball the game is more interesting for both sides. So that one person on the hook is creating a very interesting experience for 4 other people, the killer and the 3 other survivors.
Games are not designed to let every single person playing them have fun and feel empowered at all time. That is an incoherent design goal. You NEED some gamestates to feel bad. Killers need highpoints where they have an absurd amount of power on you, and survivors need lowpoints where they have no power and are at high risk to be subject to player elimination, a totally normal mechanic a ton of games have. Demonizing killers for 'not letting someone play' is like demonizing someone for shooting someone else in CS:GO and taking them out of the round. You don't 'get to play' most competitive games if you refuse to play them well.
Of course that doesn't mean that nothing can be improved. For example, mashing spacebar (or holding a key or mouse button to heal on the ground, for that matter) are really dumb mechanics that just make being temporarily incapacitated annoying. The first hook is actually a really good design, its a moment of downtime where the survivor can collect their thoughts, cool off, make a plan. The second one is just really annoying and if the killer is camping it just feels awful. Spacebar mashing serves no real purpose besides making the game feel worse, so that definitely should go.
But ultimately you can't address camping without giving killers some massive buff to give them a reward for not defending the hook at all, after all tempo wise killers literally lose time hooking you compared to just slugging, so if you wanted to disincentivize camping you would have to do some pretty wild stuff to make it better. If you just nerfed it more, killers will slug instead of hook which is even WORSE. And this is exactly what happened when BHVR tested anti-camping mechanics internally, and when BT was so strong. If BHVR's internal testing finds a mechanic is abusable, its ABUSABLE.
The way hooks are designed makes it really clear defensive play around them is intended, if it wasn't, all hooks would be like pyramid head's cages and just teleport the survivor to some random part of the map and require someone to unhook.
These are good points but it still doesn't cover the amount survivors can do to mess with killers, what's that perk Jeff's got that pops hooks when he's taken off? Or sabo them even with a toolbox let alone the perk whilst a friend bodyblocks. And if you camp a person you've literally thrown the game the speed gens can be done. 1 v 4 but the 1 is literally in a place of weakness at all times, the top players in your community have all said. I main Legion because I like the aesthetic but the power is so useless and detrimental to the game I continuously have more success just running around m1ing people. Imagine having a power as a killer that stops you from killing 🤔.
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@[Deleted User] said:
For me if I camp it’s usually an issue with the maps. Some maps like Badham are too strong against a lot of killers.
Like if I have a survivor hooked in an open area I feel like the best play is for me to camp there and draw the survivors to that area, rather than chase one of them or seek them out which will lead me to the school or the house of pain - huge time wasting areas.
Likewise for meat plant where every chase is just dropping god pallets.
Some maps are so bad that its a better play to camp and draw the survivors to you than it is to chase.
This is true, new maps needed it's obvious this game has no competent game testers. Let them just play normal for at least a month to see if they believe they are having "fun" and a fair game experience.
I could not imagine half these things getting called out on other games. Imagine hitbox issues on Fortnite oooooh I said it blasphemy 😂 it's hella true tho that's a reliable game that's why you can "go pro" on it
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@Moxie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2071976#Comment_2071976
DS only buys you "A few seconds" if you literally just stand there after stunning the Killer.
DS buys you at least 40 secs if you just run in a straight line. More if you actually run to a pallet or loop.
As people have said, tunneling and getting someone out of the game as soon as possible is the Killer's best option.
If you find tunneling unbearable, but refuse to take DS...What do you want? Killer's to modify their play to suit your tastes?
Thing is though I wasn't disagreeing with the guy that I don't like this play style 😅 I rotate around survivors I hook knowing that I'm throwing games because of it, but at least they have a game and at least I've avoided borrowed time.
Thing is survivors have way more mechanics to abuse than killers, you think hard tunnels are a dead game tactic imagine chasing a swf the whole match getting hit with flashlights so you have actually hooked just one person, chasing another person to exit gate only to have the team surround that person and it become painfully obvious in the moment that they were all rotating protection hits by bodyblocking knowing the dumb space of time you wipe your knife after ONE hit whilst they get a speed boost away from you.
1 v 4 but there's so many ways the 1 has to slow down? The 4 can literally stand in the 1's way like ######### is this game a joke how can you block a killer and not get punished for it? So much for the title "killer" when 4 people blind you with flashlights, hit you with pallets and literally stand in your way to stop you.
Anybody complaining about tunnelling obviously has never played killer a day in their life.
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@Mugombo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2069873#Comment_2069873
Lmfao imagine comparing tunnelling in dead by daylight to over watch 😂. In overwatch can you shoot back and can your team shoot back? Or do none of your teammates have guns like the other team 😂
If i understand this right you don't play killer, do you? You can hit the killer with palettes, use breakout out of lockers, flashlight save/blind and good old decisive strike, which everybody uses, so in actual fact there are a ton of way to "hit" the killer back and once survivors get to purple ranks, believe, they are pretty good at it.
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@fr0sty1223 said:
Literally in the first game I play today I get face camped and after that I played 4 more games in 2 of them someone got fact camped and in a 3rd someone got hard tunneled the entire game. So out of 5 games only one was even remotely enjoyable because that killer actually patrolled gens and put pressure on all of us so we had to actually play smart. That game ended with 3 of us dying and one escaping. The other games were 3 of us escaping and 1 person dying with most of us never even seeing the killer or getting into a chase screwing our emblems because the killer wanted to hard tunnel and face camp one person. Something needs to be done about this.
Have you played killer? You'll suddenly understand hard why anyone would facecamp.
The problem is the game itself. It needs a complete rebalance, otherwise-
A. These things will continue as it's the only effective way to get anything done
B. The fact that it is possible to do these things will ensure it's continuation
Once you've played killer enough you'll understand survivors have many in game mechanics that can stop killers. The power of body blocking and forcing protection hits literally renders killers powerless.
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@Lord_Tony said:
well they need to balance SWF somehow
Not only that but at least match up the matches accordingly.
Suppose I believe this game is balanced, and it's not the mechanics but just player experience that determines matches. At rank 13 I have continuously played team after team with red ranked players. Where is the balance in that? If you have a red rank or two then match the difficulty to a red rank or purple, why would a survivors who already have the advantage of teamwork get matched with a killer who is ranked way lower than they are?
These matches are literally impossible to kill one person but I'm expected to have fun?
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@SammiieK1991 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2071391#Comment_2071391
I don't see an issue here because 9/10 I'm killer and I'm still in an xbox party myself. So just because the killer has a loss a majority of time people then can't play with their mates and have a chat?
Also unless you're going on to their gaming profile how could you prove they're in a team party chat? 🤔
The way they play make it extremely obvious, there's only a certain level of coordination possible without communication. You can't see survivors auras without certain conditions and perks, and entire teams blatantly rotate around flashlight saving people.
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@ukenicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2070845#Comment_2070845
Devour Hope, Ruin+Undying, Crowd Control and NOED are, in my opinion strong enough Hexes to be considered "High risk high reward" if they get cleansed before or after you gain value from their effects. Bringing most Hex perks by nature go by this rule as, if they get cleansed right away that is the "risk" factor.
Then you have Hexes which punish Survivors for cleansing / attempting to cleanse such as Haunted Grounds, Retribution and Thrill of the Hunt. These, when used alongside a another Hex perk can make for a pretty nasty build in which Survivors are screwed either way.
Once you pass a certain rank - about 6 - all survivors find your hex in about 30 seconds no joke ruin is a pointless perk it gets taken whilst we're still at 5-4 gens