Will the Ds and OoO Nerfs kill this game?
Seriously what is going on right now, does anybody know what the reason for the heavy Ds and OoO Nerfs (Not "Change") are?
And no a "Killer don't like it" dosen't count. If there is not only ONE good reason for that, then they should go back right now.
I hope they know that the majority of players against the Ds change. Do anyone know what the Devs said about that (the reasons)
@Sluzzy should we leave the game?
Thank you for you opinon @Sluzzy I will copy it here so everyone can see it. Hope it's ok for you.
Sluzzy wrote:
"When I first heard of the news yesterday and read a picture of the perk description, I immediately thought it was a prank because it was clearly written by a killer main. It was written exactly how killer mains want it. I had to go watch a vod of the stream to confirm it was true because I couldn't believe it was being nerfed yet again and in a way that killer mains precisely want it.
It is not about how it was nerfed that is important here, it is why it is nerfed. Decisive Strike was not nerfed because of balance reasons. The devs never said the perk was too strong, they strictly talked about the fun factor for specifically one side. It was nerfed because killers didn't like the perk. Killers demand to be totally in charge of their opponent and always oppressing them. DS doesn't win the game by having it equipped, it made the experience playing that side a little more bearable. It was a "fun" perk to use but at the same time a "required" perk to use because despite the rhetoric from the killer side, tunneling is the most effective way to win the game. I know because I play killer as well. If I want to win, I can tunnel someone out of the match and there is nothing that team can do. If it is a SWF team, they'll do anything to help their buddy and then it throws the match. I've seen it from both sides since the game released.
With deactivation conditions which I've said on this forum numerous times which the devs have chosen to ignore, a killer can stop chase after a survivor has been unhooked and if they find that survivor with nurses calling, THEY ARE TUNNELING. The perk is useless. They can work on the objective and thinking they are safe, the killer can stop chasing and return to THAT SURVIVOR and TUNNEL. The perk is useless again. A ghostface can hide, wait for the unhook, wait for the survivor to heal or touch a gen AND PROCEED TO TUNNEL, the perk is again useless.
This perk was nerfed for the benefit of one side at the cost of the other side for not balance reasons, but strictly FUN reasons. It has been nerfed at least five times.
So to answer your question, if you are a survivor main or play solo or duo, then you should definitely quit. This side has been nerfed constantly and consistently for five years with total disregard to mechanics freely given to killer that can make this side miserable to play. Instead of nerfing DS, more perks should be buffed to even discourage its use to help against unfun mechanics. Why couldn't Discordance be buffed instead of nerfing DS? Keep in mind, Infectious Freight on Nurse, Spirit, Oni, Billy are all still a thing, Infectious Freight has never been nerfed, keep in mind it can be abused to cause the survivor side to be miserable. The devs and killers think this perk is healthy, obviously, for the game. An insidious camper can still camp with NOED. A bubba can camp someone in the basement and there is no possible out, a killer recently BUFFED! The devs think this is healthy, obviously.
For me personally, I can not wait for Back 4 Blood, I've been thinking about that game a lot since it was announced and this nerf has made me even more excited and can't wait. Guess the best part is of B4B? Characters will not constantly be nerfed in that game, it will constantly improve. When you enjoy something in that game, you won't have to worry about something being taken away from you. Especially after you bought it."
Comments
Again, stop blaming YOUR problems on other people. You will not get any better at the game if this is your go to defense mechanism. I hope things improve for you, but I'm not holding my breath.
Oh Shrek Here we go again...
Your exemple is realy dumb because it dosen't matter If the survivor have Ds or not this Match will end in a 4k, so why Nerf Ds?
Well you don't Play survivor, If you would then you know how often now a survivor get undeservd hits from the Killer so how is that fair?
Wait you say that Ds right now have No counterplay?! Jeezus are you Rank 15?
BNP and instaheals are very rare add ons that cost much Points so shouldn't they be strong like Killer ones? Oh I know because it's uNfUn for the kiLler.
BL was not that strong but funny, but again Killer say it's uNfUn pls Nerf!!
It's funny to see that Killer want to play against survivor with "Skill" but playing Things that dosen't need any Skill.
I Hope I diden't destroy your dream world too much...
"Most survivor biased" WOW realy for what? Saying ds should not destroyed?
Killer's objective is to kill is as much as survivor's objective is to complete generators and heal. The double-standard is with you and the devs. Killers have loads of perks that punish the survivor side for doing the objective, now survivor has a perk of their own that punishes themselves for doing the objective. How much help do killers need?
I can already visualize folks not doing generators to save their perk. That is horrendous to think about.
Yes. Yeah for sure. DS is an empathy test to see if you can humanize with the people you're playing against. If you defend DS then you're full of BS because you can't understand what it's like on the other side.
"How much help do killers need?"
Realistically, a new core game mode.
OoO change wont really matter, contrary to what people say its an extremely rare perk and half the time is used by people not up to the task who go down quite fast.
The DS change has the problem it makes the perk way worse, since it either does nothing or renders a Survivor useless for 60 seconds so people will stop running it and tunneling off hook will be more prevalent. I dont mind changing/nerfing DS but the proposed change is a bit too much in my opinion.
Survivors can adapt, and have adapted more than killer mains have, so no.
DS has been nerfed 3 times now, soon to be 4. OoO has always been abuseable. It's not gonna kill the game lol what
Oh yeah, tell me single killer meta perk that activates from survivors finishing gens that makes huge impact on game's outcome.
All good killer gen defence perks work only if killer manages to catch / fend off and hook survivors, not reward them for failing to defend gens and activate from gens poping.
It's people like you who rely on perks like DS to let them cheese some objective progress risk-free. Actions should have consequences and DS promoted actions that would instantly kill you had you not have it. Use it as anti-tunneling perk and nothing has changed, try to cheese objectives for free at your own peril.
You'll eventually come back. B4B might be fun but its still not dbd and hasn't come put yet. Of course this is a bait post imo. You want to put killer nerfs out there and even make fun of perk nerfs with your little songs right? But as soon as they make DS and OoO more balanced you get all upset. Most survivors and those who play both sides agree this change is fair. Adapt or leave make your choice.
That’s the thing though, the new Decisive Strike is meant to encourage Survivors to leave the area the Killer is in and if the Killer does chase them down, then congratulations, you were tunneled and you get to use it. But if you believe you are safe to heal or repair, then you’re not being tunneled. The perk is supposed to be a counter to tunneling, not to make the Survivors cocky arrogant players because they can get away with almost anything with Decisive Strike and Unbreakable.
Of course, it's just more partisan rancor.
The survivor side is not always the brunt of the devs nerfs. Moris got the hell nerfed out of them, as did undying. Like it or not, the devs are mostly impartial and do their best to balance the game from an objective standpoint.
I don't like the changes either. I think the DS change is misguided, since DS isn't supposed to be an anti-tunnel perk; if you're going to make it one, you need a complete overhaul. Object is an interesting idea, but I think that a better solution would have just been to diminish the range and require the killer to be making eye contact with you as well; that way, you can only see their aura if they know where you are too.
That being said, I can understand where the calls for change are coming from. What I don't understand is the petty entitlement of some of my fellow survivors. No, we are not going to leave the game over a good-faith change, no matter how much I disagree with it. It's literally just two perks, one of which nobody even runs outside of SWF, just like how undying and tinkerer were two perks. Same goes with old prayer beads bracelet, 5 blink nurse, brand new parts, etc. etc. Get over it, there's no reason to be so fussy over simple balance measures.
To be fair, there's a lot of the same on the killer side too. The only reason people are going to leave this game is because these self-righteous pop-up figures that ruin the spirit of games, in posting the most hackneyed, ridiculous philippics with both eyes blinded.
I doubt that.
Back in 2018 killer queues were unreal (20 minutes or more, usually more) suggesting an overabundance of killers and a scarcity of survivors. Yet from that time until today survivors were hit with far more severe nerfs than the current DS nerf, in comparison to killers. Killer has been easier than it's ever been.
Yet instead of increasing the killer population we're now at a point where survivor queues are longer than killer queues on average.
The Undying nerf, was that a change also done to help survivor queue times by encouraging people to play less killer? Of course not. BHVR doesn't nerf to appease either playerbase or to influence play rates on either side. Nerfs and buffs are done to better balance the game as best they can, to make it a better game for everyone. They aren't always correct but it's not about trying to get more people to play one side over the other.
LOL that big brain stuff there.
You're absolutely right and the only way to stop this game from dying is pig nerf.
NOED.
Also Tinkerer rewards killer for doing nothing and punishes survivor for doing the objective. On a high mobility killer, this is a free win on anything less than a top 4 man SWF.
I don't rely on DS, I especially don't as much as killers do with killer perks. It is the principal of it.
To correct you, bad killers picked someone up after working on a gen if they had DS active. Your own fault. You should have the consequences here, but the devs will be removing it. You are still tunneling whether they went to a gen or crouched somewhere near it. You went "back to the hook" to chase the same survivor. It should not have mattered what they did at that point.
The situation in my example does not always end in a 4k, I have played several killer matches where this has happened and I still have a few survivors escape.
I do play survivor, actually. I would be willing to bet I play survivor better than you. I can even record and show you some of my games I have if you would like and yes, I am well aware of the terrible latency problems that have only been around for the past 4+ years since I am a longtime player with almost 1800 hours on this game. It is so bad that I as a killer can even tell that I should not have gotten a few hits.
I am actually rank one on both killer and survivor consistently (not that it means much). There is no counterplay to the current DS btw, if you say otherwise it would have been very helpful to list some things you can do to counter it. In fact, please respond with a list of counterplay to the current DS.
Just because the BNPs and instaheals costed a little more than other addons does not mean in the slightest that they were fair. Even though they costed more, you could ask around the forums and I guarantee you that you will find a few people with over 50 or even 100 BNPs or styptic agents. They are incredibly easy to get and stock up.
BL was incredibly strong on maps with elevation, what are you talking about? I don't think you saw how it was for killers against survivors on Haddonfield with BL. Let me tell you, it wasn't pleasant. Survivors would even intentionally send killers to that map making it impossible for the killer to win, even with bamboozle since multiple windows are open and all can be used as an infinite.
"It's funny to see that Killer want to play against survivor with "Skill" but playing Things that doesn't need any Skill." Could you rephrase this comment please because I am unsure what you are trying to say in this sentence? Assuming I read it correctly, you are saying that it now takes little skill to play killer, but that doesn't make sense because it seems to imply that instaheals and BNPs DID in fact take skill to use which is ridiculous.
And no, you didn't exactly "destroy my dream world". Still waiting on your response.
The problem comes with the proxy campers like Hillbilly, Spirit et all, when you think you are safe and suddenly a race car comes barreling.
If you love demo so much why not play the stranger thing games then if that's the case then why are you here?
Yea my sarcasm identifier is reading gang war right now because of them
Then the best you can do is try to loop them or hide from them.
Is this satire?
Nope.
Yes but you still get DS switched off because some Killers can start a tunneling from very long distances thanks to huge mobility. Im not against changing DS abuse but this change is too much against certain Killers.
I dont use it but Im concerned tunneling will be even more prevalent after this.
Yeah sure, NOED is really meta perk that isn't used by mainly bad killers. Knowing you, you've obviously dismissed that NOED was nerfed several times as well and will get more changes in the future, community isn't happy with it so I'm certain it won't stay they way it is forever.
And tinkerer by itself is still pretty useless, nowhere near the meta unless you pair it with actual good stall perk and a mobility killer, nowhere near as universal as DS. Go ahead and take it on any slow movement killer without slowdown and you'll see how meta it is.
For someone who doesn't rely on it, you're one the loudest people complaining about the changes it gets that don't even affect tunneling at all. At least it's entertaining to read what you write as it usually can't be taken seriously. The change is no big deal if you don't cheese DS to get free objective progress, after getting unhooked don't hop on a nearest gen but get away to a safe spot and heal there, in place where you won't get tunneled.
Why should killer get consequences for dowing and hooking survior who was working on a generator/unhooking in his face ? Should survivors get stabbed and downed by a generator if they work on it too long ? There should be consequences for failing at something, not at beating the other side at something.
Ah, so it's another case of whoever writes the flavour text not knowing how to word things, or being told incorrectly how it works. (It is evident that communication has always been pretty bad among their team, after all) Thanks for clearing that up.
Simple answer no
This isn't meant to come across wrong, but I don't see how there's any logic behind "tunneling will be more prevalent" because of this change.
A killer who's dead set on tunneling with continue to do so, change or not. They are/were the ones who go back to the hook, ignore the rescuer (who is sometimes the easier chase/closer/already injured themselves, etc.) to chase down the recently unhooked person -- the true definition of the word. If they're doing that now, they'll keep doing so after the change. They're the ones who get hurt by DS now and still will with that playstyle after the change.
I purposely try to avoid someone who was recently unhooked when I play killer, so I don't eat many DS stuns at all. I don't tunnel if at all possible -- killers who do play like I do aren't suddenly going to start tunneling because of this change, because there's no benefit at all to doing so that would exist NOW that didn't before. I've faced the high mobility killers as a survivor who do tunnel -- they'll just keep doing it, change or no change. The ones who didn't? Again, nothing there is going to change. Since I don't tunnel now -- I won't suddenly start doing so when it goes live. Now, if you do something aggressive and potentially dumb -- like jumping immediately onto a gen to try and finish it in my face instead of going to a safe tile or hiding instead? That's on YOU, that's NOT tunneling, and that will be YOU deciding the risk of getting downed is worth the reward of whatever you're trying to accomplish.
What WILL change is something like this scenario: I'm chasing someone across the map who's beelining for a person on hook. I injure them along the way, they continue on to the hooked survivor and unhook them right before I down them (and they have BT), essentially making a hook trade off. That's not always a smart play -- it is a unsafe rescue, after all, BT notwithstanding -- but sometimes, trading spots on the hook benefits the team as a whole. I hook said survivor, turn around, and before I can take two steps, the person who was just unhooked is already pulling the person down instead of booking it to a safer locale (a safe pallet/tile set-up, etc.). I have two people in front of me who have been recently unhooked -- one who should have gone to a safer location and didn't, the other who probably never should have made an unsafe rescue to begin with -- two bad decisions. The fresh unhook still potentially has BT, and BOTH definitely have DS up. I'm in a no-win situtaion currently the way DS works (unless I slug) based off of multiple bad plays by the opposing team. At least now, that second "unhook in my face" won't happen, or if it does, there will actually be a consequence to pay for, what in theory, should be a terrible play.
That scenario as described is a risky play with no consequences currently. In the future, there will be a risk-reward decision to make as a survivor. As I said in a previous post, that's balanced far better than what we have now. (And this is coming from someone who runs DS on EVERY survivor I play -- my playstyle means that the change won't affect me at all, I strongly believe).
Because less people will equip DS and there will be more trials with no Obssession, when there is an Obssession tunneling is rather minor and usually not much of a concern, but when you get in a trial and nobody has those claws around his portrait... God help you.
I come across tunneling in 20-30% of my games (from minor to major) but when there is no Obssession is always heavy tunneling and happens in 70-80% of my games.
Hell I dont use DS and Im tempted of running a Obssession perk so the Killer sees there is one and does not go bonkers...
"Why should killer get consequences for dowing and hooking survior who was working on a generator/unhooking in his face ?"
That is a perk. You were tunneling. Doesn't matter what they are doing.
Why are you in the survivors face tunneling?
See how that works?
I can definitely see the concern in that.
object was in need of a change, same with DS but the way they changed ds is just bs
Okay, I'm sorry, but if a Killer sees you working on a Generator after just chasing and hooking someone else, are they supposed to just let you continue? No, especially since they're not tunneling at that point. It's a Killer's job to stop you from escaping, so why would they let you do a Generator in front of they're face, especially when they left you to find a different Survivor to chase.
Yeah and there was this perk called enduring that used to delete effect of your DS and it got patched out. That was the perk, it got more balanced.
Same goes for DS. See how that works.
I'll respectfully disagree. It just takes one person in a 4-person team to have DS and the killer will have to assume that everyone has DS. Most of my killer rounds (at Red Rank), it's usually multiple people running DS currently. If a player is usually DS as a defensive perk, then nothing is going to change for them (much like I am going to continue running it because I don't use it as a weapon, but as preservation against a true tunneler). Those players will still run DS.
Now players who abuse it and use it as an offensive perk? Those players might stop running it, true. My guess is that we'll get a better idea how MANY people are abusing it vs. how many aren't. If the numbers of DS abusers are high (and they move on to something else), then you might be correct and you'll see fewer matches with an Obsession, but that would simply illustrate that DS is being abused more than we suspected it ever was.
An easy fix to what you state is a simple one: have an Obsession in every match, whether there's a perk to warrant it or not.
While you are right that playing killer is easier than ever, what does that have to do with anything?
so the game went from being survivorsided 90% of the time to being survivorsided 65% of the time, and while that is better for killers, it is still not balanced (warning, numbers are made up and just to illustrade a point).
And you ignore some simple facts, like how did the players of the game change? Are there more players than before, and if yes, does that change the relevancy of how easy or hard it was to play killer years ago?
While people are forgiving with a new game with a fresh concept, they might not be that forgiving 2-4 years playing the game and still serious points not adressed for a long time.
And your last statement might be your opinion, but my view is different. There are problems in the game, and the devs tend to ignore them until they cant ignore them any longer, and thats when they adress them. So yes, they dont do it to balance, because the balance was broken before, they do it because the imbalance is impacting performance, queue times, sales, whatever.
Oof, you can't abuse the perk and do things you shouldn't be able to get away with, now I'm going to moan on the forums. Undying was nerfed aswell, so is DS, get over it.
Of course YOU think that
We don't talk about stadia here on this Christian server, lol
"When I first heard of the news yesterday and read a picture of the perk description, I immediately thought it was a prank because it was clearly written by a killer main."
Let me objectively correct this statement for you:
"When I first saw this post today and read it, I immediately thought it was a prank because it was clearly written by a survivor main with a demo PFP"
If they nerf the DS I don't play anymore this game full of tunel killers.
No, they will not kill the game. D-Strike is now a fully ant-tunneling perk instead of a "be invincible for a full minute" perk. OoO, if those changes go through, will no longer be able to be abused to give a team on coms infinite intel. These changes were healthy and necessary. And even is D-Strike becomes useless, if Mettle of Man, the most busted perk to ever be added to the game when it was in its original state has taught us anything, a useless perks is much healthier for the game than an OP perk.
You are right, it's not worth it to play as survivor anymore.
Those of us waiting through ridiculous survivor lobby times are grateful. Thanks!
Nah, won't kill the game. I only use DS when tunneled so that I can teabag the killer in my final seconds. Constructive? No. But it feels good 😁
Here's my Blight getting hit by 59 Seconds DS After I hit one Survivor Twice and Downed another Survivor. ALso the one with the DS got me after doing a Generator and Flashlight saving. So did this Blight tunneled?
I think you meant seppuku. (Ceremonial honor suicide)
Sodoku is the numbers crossword XD
Edit: Sorry if it was intentional and I just didn't get the joke. Nonetheless take my upvote for I think the same everytime ^^.
It was broken with UB it did indeed need a change
Thank you for pointing out the double standard so I didn't have to. Definitely a top tier post.
It might save this game we have to wait and see. Right now queue times are too long for survivor so I don't play much at all.