Can someone explain why people are against DS changes?
I get that just nerfing it would make people anrgy.
But there are many change ideas that also buff it in other ways.
Like I read a post of DS being changed into a true anti tunneling perk.
Nerf:
20/25/30 seconds
disables when touching gen/gate/totem.
Buff:
Two time use
when downed while the timer is still going add extra time 20/25/30 seconds.
It would be a huge benefit for survivors that go against super tunnelers when you could use DS two times against them.
But also killers would given time to breathe again when its not that abusable anymore.
So what speaks against a change without touching the general value of the perk that much?
The game would become a bit healthier with a change like this.
Comments
Because that was the stated design of the perk by the devs.
Now YOU explain to me what makes it fair.
Being slugged isn't a free save.
Said this in a previous post, if the survivor is smart they wont just mindlessly dive bomb if the killer is near. From what I can tell youve never faced an actual tourney squad. And no, your typical green rank wannabe toxic swf doesnt count
The change was made because killers complained about its unfairness for three years.
It's fair because you get your hook. Why I asking that people look at what it was is because that is an example of unfair. Without context you won't understand where I'm coming from.
You know why BT was unfair during release? For the same reason you think DS allows for a free save. Because it was a free save. BT used to give the unhooked and unhooker the BT effect.
Now BT is fair because the unhooker is punished for doing unsafe saves.
In both fair and unfair examples the hooked survivor gets away. Will you go as far to say BT is still unfair or will you accept that perks need to have a beneficial affect?
You should watch who you are talking too before saying such bs.
People say It was nerf but in truth it got a massive buff after one patch where you had to get the bar to 30 or 45 struggle and then do a skill check unless your where the object. However, after the object rework (basically where object means jackshit by this point) everyone gets a more or less 60 secs of free time after a hook or else the Killer gets a 5 second stun. Because now you become the object..
I would like to point out most the good OoO perks promote attacking everyone but the object so It is such a "nanana" bs ordeal to start with with that and the few good OoO perks which promoted attacking the Object got nerf to the ######### ground It does seem like The D-strike Buff was to add salt in the wounds.
Being object by this point is more a boon for survivors then something to be scared of (Unless you run mantle of Man you crazy bastard)
On top of It the easiest as both you and I have stated..30 seconds..FFS they nerf pop goes to 45 the least they can do is make It 30 for a perk that is gonna be used 4 ######### TIMES!
Are you trying to say Decisive Strike is fair because:
A.) My first hook worked
B.) Something something Borrowed Time
OR
C.) It used to be even worse
Because those are all atrociously bad arguments that do not change the fact it makes the user of Decisive Strike unhookable for a full minute, regardless of their activities. That is not fair, no matter what prior versions you try to compare it to.
Well that thread escalated... And no one actually answeres my question properly XD
Just another Thread of Ds is Fair/unfair.
Seems like people just want to fight on the forums ^^
However I must say that I dont see the fair side of DS.
It would be fair if it only prevented tunneling. It just does too much for one perk. But How do i close this thread? it leads to nothing anyways
That is ripped straight from the Dev post.
Decisive Strike punishes players who don't know about it and it can easily be abused., making it into an offensive perk.
My second point stands, BHVR said they nerfed Ruin because of its passive pressure.
Decisive Strike is supposed to be an anti-tunnel perk. All it succeeds in doing is giving the Survivor a little more time, while doing little to stop real tunneling.
My proposed changes:
Decisive Strike no longer has a timer. Decisive will be lost when working on a gen, getting healed, hopping in a locker or during the EGC. Additionally, Decisive can be used more than once.
BT is just an example of another perk the Devs graced us with that took time to fix.
60s unhookable state only factors if have unbreakable. Without, a slug is better than a hook. Unbreakable, while a lot of arguments are made because of it, isn't a factor. Because other perks exists. Other items exists. Slugging is something that was many ways of countering besides unbreakable. So I will not take it into account when taking about this perk.
If a survivor goes for a save with DS active, I would slug both and go for the other two. Even if they got back up no progress was done on the survivor end. It's a wash. They are back where they started and this time without unbreakable.
From what I'm being bombarded with, your solution won't solve the preceived issue. It still allows a survivor to dedicate themselves to hook saves. Worse being they would have an unlimited time to do so.
Not active during EGC? Showing some favoritism aren't you?
Why are people against ds changes? You need to understand all what is said but basically.
Half the people know It is busted BS that needs some kind of nerf.
And another half (Mainly survivors) wanna keep It as It cause has become well, It a crutch just like old ruined, NOED or whatever else It be.
And people know the devs will not nerf It because It is a survivors favorite toy. And they tend to treat balancing survivors with kid gloves..Or more correctly make a Killer with Perks to solve the problem. (That is what Bubba was when he came out to solve the camping and item problem)
On top of that the Killer meta has been shuffled for years so It is about time the Survivors have a shake up a bit.
TL;DR: Because D-strike is a Crutch
Having 60 seconds of pickup immunity is too strong. There needs to be deactivation conditions that prevent survivors from slowing the killer's momentum.
If survivors are progressing the game in a significant way, then they absolutely should not have DS protection.
As far as I know Im talking to a fellow forum user, didnt mean any offense
Don't worry about it.
I like your idea. But people are scared that the devs just would nerf it into the ground. Especially veterans. Back then when sth was abused by the community they tended to destroy perks. Like old Machine Gun Build. After both perks got nerfed both were bad af, at least STBFL got some love later on.
And DS is just by existing such a good perk to force a few more killers to not tunnel you. And losing its reputation would negate this passive effect.
I would love to see it working twice like Second Wind does but I think 20 seconds were way better. And if you get downed during that time it just stays on until picked up.
Yeah, infinite Legion mend timer was simply just annoying.
Looking away while chasing a Survivor depleting their mend timer, again just annoying.
Didn't break the game at all whatsoever.
Forehead.
DS should not activate when you are the last person alive or in the game.
Just had a SWF squad run up and unhook near the exit gate because they knew that DS would allow them to escape. Stupid.
It is 1 minute of immortality of course they don't want it nerfed. Most survivors rely on perks to carry them.
No, deactivating Decisive during the EGC is not playing favorites.
A perk that can be used like DS can shouldn't be allowed to put Killers in a lose-lose situation. It is EXTREMELY likely that the Killer will eat a DS during an EGC scramble.
Also, my bad, I forgot to say that it resets when someone else gets hooked, since you aren't getting tunneled, clearly.
Don't insult people.
Legion HAS been nerfed for some pretty questionable reasons, but I'm not sure annoyance was one of them.
DS is not an anti-tunnel perk. It does it's job poorly: difficult to use for newer players who need protection from tunneling the most. Works only once, when tunneler tunnels after every hook. That's not anti tunnel, it's anti momentum.
Many players use DS for anti tunnel anyway, because it's the closest thing there is.
Why we don't like change ideas? Many of them demand only nerfs, making it even easier to tunnel though DS. Few want to make it both fair for killers and an actually decent perk against tunneling.
At the same time, DS is too strong and too weak. It's not anti-tunnel but it definitely should be.
I can only speak for myself, but I’m against DS changes because I think the perk is fine in its current state and discourages certain behaviours, which is a good thing.
I play both sides. I know that DS can be annoying at times. But a) plenty of killer ######### can be HIGHLY annoying as well, but who cares, and b) it really isn’t a big deal most of the time if you just expect everyone to run it and play accordingly.
It’s the same reason I have for thinking NOED is fine how it is. It’s annoying but so what? And the existence of it discourages survivors from ignoring dull totems, just as DS discourages the killer from just hooking the same guy back to back to back. They both serve their purpose and the people who hate them are usually the people who forgot to play around them and got blindsided.
If you want to nerf every single perk that “feels unfair” then the only stuff left would be, like, Bond, Botany Knowledge and Visionary on the survivor side, and meme perks on the killer side. Sometimes perks have a strong effect and that’s okay to a point.
I hope that makes sense and answers your question.
ask mod there no talking to people
Lmaoooooooo ok bud
Try and remember. Survivor perks can be taken 4x. So for the DS + UB combo x4 is uncounterable. There is nothing you can do, that is 4 minutes total of invulnerability. This is the problem with balancing survivor perks, each perk has to be considered with 4x the effects for balancing purposes. The devs do not do this, they look at DS+UB and they see one survivor using it, and dont think about the stronger aspects of it.
It's because survivors need thier 60 seconds of invincibilty, because they have been coddled for so long they refuse to 'git gud', but demand that killers just need to get better at the game and deal with the BS.
The only NERF it Really need is Touching a Gen or getting full Healed should remove 20+ sec from the timer.
How is it fine and fair when competent players abuse the 60 seconds to do gens or save people, while also using UB? It's a win for the survivor even when you don't intentionally hard tunnel them off hook, which is what the perk is supposed to be for in all honesty.
OMG! Do gens?! The balls on these survivors. They should find a corner and selfcare for 60 seconds.
It's called tactics. These what if arguments can be used against what killers do just as easily.
Sure ds will be nerfed when freddy's snares do damage
Ahh yes let me stand still for 60s while the gens take 80s and 3 others could be doing them so if that's the case in the time it takes to re hook them 3 gens are almost done and that could happen 4 times technically 12 for each hook state see how ridiculous your statement is
Same reason people try to defend old mori's.
People become reliant on things that are too strong; and throw a fit when presented with the fact they might not be able to abuse that thing anymore.
My idea was if you have ds active you suffer from a 50%reduced recovery rate the timer is 2x as long when down because if the killer is tunneling you they should be punished either by the stun or or wait time making ds unbreakable less effective and if any progression is made to affect the match the timer empties 2x as quick(includes lockers)
Because how can you say your being tunneled when your doing an obj that's like saying why did you shoot me in cod when you defusing the bomb its stupid
That's true most of the time if I'm doing an objective my DS will run out even at level 3. so I really only get to use it if I am being tunneled. I've only ever had it activate at an open door once, and I'm betting that killer was not happy about that.
The thing is they aren't "what if" things. They happen all the time. Just keep on ignoring that though.
my guess is that certain people feel forced to use the perk- and because of that they want it to be strong enough to where it’s not a waste of a slot if the killer doesn’t play a certain way (i.e. tunneling)
id rather have it changed, though
The post you quoted was hilarious.
I mean the way hes making it sound like hes a mafia boss sending a hitman to come and take me out
Pretty embarrassing, for sure.
For the last freaking time DS WAS NOT DESIGNED AS A ANTI TUNELLING PERK holy s*** how many times does the devs have to say this crap
New ruin is better then old one tho :/
Nope the devs never said it was designed as a anti tunnel perk and even peantis said so
I'm not. They can change it all they want.
When DS originally came out, sure, but the perk after its rework was absolutely designed to be anti-tunnel. They even mentioned that in the patch notes for the DS rework.
There is not so much nerf needed only :
Alot of survivors, alot like the freedom they get with it 60seconds is long, a solo gen is 80seconds so look at it that way they cannot be picked up for that time, it activates twice a game so 120seconds you can't be picked up unless the killer wants to be stunned. It's just baby survivors saying "don't tunnel, I got of the hook, healed and done this gen but dont tunnel bad killer get good"
Vast majority of this playerbase is somewhat new or simply bad at the game, so they can't really comprehend why some minor changes like simple actions removing it are necessary. The others are just people who enjoy it being busted and abusing it. It's really that simple.
In the same respect you have an equal divide among killers. You have terrible killers who go out of their way to tunnel because they're bad at the game and aren't skilled enough in chases or applying pressure. And then you have really good killers who are very good at those things but they constantly have to deal with/get hit unsuspectingly by DS because they're efficient and the survivors they play are also skilled and know how to make you lose a ton of time/pressure.
What this means is you need to strike a balance between those two things to balance it, and the best way you can do it is what the overwhelming majority of people have suggested; make DS last far longer than 60 seconds but make it drop upon most any action.
HOLYXHSHASDHA Dude. Whether it's said or not, it's CLEARLY designed as anti-tunnel disguised as "anti-momentum." It's a really dumb perk in its current design.
Why are people against?
BECAUSE IT WILL RUIN THEIR FUN!
Its really cool to bait grabs and lockers at the last second and then DS the killer.. Hehehehehe...
..... :/